Ep. 2 - Tristan Mendès France : « Le complotisme est entré dans mon intimité »

In the creative characters that certain communities can create, I get a crazy power that I don't have. And it's vertiginous every time. We imagine that I have relationships, entrance doors with the power that I have to say, because Macron is my thing, that I work clearly for the largest American agencies, the Mosa and the CIA. There is really this fantasy of all power. Our duty is to be "completists" to denounce "completers". Who controls the New York Times? Who controls the BFM TV? Who? It's the community that you know well. Don't forget, sorry for all these bastards, nothing. Know well that you are going to pay. Repay yourself! Everything is calculated! Disinformation, harassment, it has been very, very hard. I realize that the people who go into these "completists" stories are creating an alternative reality. Hello everyone, I am Louise Weiss. Welcome to this new episode of "Reveillez-vous" the "Conspiracy Watch" podcast. In this season 2, you know, we are giving, among other things, the word of the personalities that became the target of the "completosphere". And today, this guest, you know him well, if you are used to "Conspiracy Watch". I want to talk about... Tristan Mendes-Royce, I am a conference manager associated with the University of Paris, specialized in unique cultures. I also collaborate with "Conspiracy Watch". And I co-animate a competitor podcast "Conspiracy Watch" on France Info. Today, Tristan Mendes-Royce, you know him as an observer of the "completosphere" and the extremes. But to understand the origin of his fight, it is necessary to go back to the 90s. At the time, he was 20, he was interested in the extreme right in the framework of his subject of thesis. And also, as a parliamentary assistant, close to a socialist senator. The next one is the one who tells it. I think it is my focus on the extreme right that opened the door to my concern linked to the "Conspiracy Watch" discourse. Because the extreme right has always been the bearer of these theories. I was very interested in, for example, the "Conspiracy Watch" protocol, which was created at the beginning of 1900, probably by the Russian secret police. But in short, this document, which, let's say, revealed a global conclusion of the Jewish elite to destroy or submit the planet, there was in this literature, the extreme right, anti-Semitic, the whole matrix of the "completist" discourses. So this interest is quite general for the extreme right, anti-Semitic, French and international. In fact, it was an open door, obvious to the mechanics of the "completist" discourses. This, Justin, you are looking at, obviously, a very disturbing life shot there. That is the World Trade Center, and we have unconfirmed reports this morning that a plane has crashed into one of the towers. The basis for me is, clearly, the expectations of the 11th of September, with rather a kind of sensation of tsunami, of a conspiracy. Good evening, and thank you for your incredible, unimaginable, amazing attention. The words make no mistake to qualify the very vast, the spectacular terrorist operation today. First, we are going to revive the events, the Pentagon, of course, and especially these huge towers of the World Trade Center, percolated full-fledged by two jet planes. First of all, an accident. Obviously, there have always existed the "completist" discourses, but there was a sort of aggregation and volume that was absolutely spectacular, with a multitude of "completist" narratives, once again, that had come to aggrieved around this event. I rarely saw, in so little time, appear and coagulate as many discourses, sometimes not coerent with each other. There was a real collaborative, sudden, visible production, that came to focus on forums and websites, and it was quite spectacular to see this energy, this dynamic, set up in a massive way, and with a real audience. I was quite marked at the time by a forum that was always called "Reopen 9-1-1". Reopen 9-1-1 is a site created in 2004 by an American millionaire on the extreme right who refutes the official version of the Attentats on September 11. The site was declared in France in 2006. Reopen 9-11.info is asking for a new survey on Attentats. A forum that really had a lot of audience at the time, a website that was before the social networks, but there was already this atmosphere of sociability on these different forums, and I had really been inspired by the energy and the multitude of people who came to daily feed on a continuous flow, torrential, of 1000 implementative fires already at the time, and it was a field of observation for me, quite fascinating and relevant. First of all, what I did not imagine, was that there were so many people who were passionate about completionist discourses around Attentats on September 11, and I also deployed myself as a mechanic who began to become interesting to observe modalities, like these famous photos with red circles, to try to identify a weak signal that would come back to cause the official truth. It was already the terms that were used at the time, since the official version, as if there was a version pushed by the system and they would be in some kind of resistance to this narrative imposed by the deep state or something like that. On the internet at the time, ideas and interpretations without shock. Here is for example what we could read. The collapse of the towers, a controlled demolition. The plane crashed on the Pentagon, it never existed. As for the Jews, they were warned before the destruction of the towers. As soon as the Attentats on September 11, I immediately felt that something was going on, worrying about this eruption, say, of completionism, especially online and collaborative. I felt that there was a worrying dynamic and very early, very very early. I think it's really just after, I realize that the people who enter these completionist stories, are creating an alternative reality. They are making their own reading of this moment in history. And in this eruption, around September 11, there is not only a resumption of what happened during the Attentats on September 11. There is also a resumption of a slightly older story. Some of you will go back to World War II. In this resumption, I can see that there is a sort of decline in history with a great age of this common history that we have. Negationism, which interested me already in the 90s, was already a crack in this unity, in this history with a great age, which makes the unity of our societies. 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It was rather the extreme right. So in the middle, end of the 90s, I wrote some articles, books about the extreme right. I was already identified by a few extreme right figures, especially on a radio that still exists. I used to listen to it, called Radio Courtoisie, which was also an interesting subject. In 1987, Radio Courtoisie was created by two men. The first one is Jean Ferré, supporter of the OS, a French terrorist organization of extreme right for French Algeria. The second is Serge de Bequetch, co-founder of National Hebdo, the official canard of the national front. In 2007, Radio Courtoisie was taken by Henri de Lesquins, condemned for provocation and compensation of crimes against humanity. I just want that in a identity culture, and therefore that public media promote French or Western music, not Western music. Today, Radio Courtoisie is trying to inform its audience. I was already identified as someone who was against them. They could sometimes talk less about the radio, in some extreme right figures, my name appeared, so there were already attacks, but which were rather the order of anti-Semitic attacks or of an individual considered as someone of extreme left, that I was not quite committed to the left, clearly, there is no photo. But I was rather an ideological man, and obviously also noticed the fact that my name, as someone who is of Jewish origin, and with a name also quite charged to the extreme right, which made that, well, for some as extreme right figures, I was identified as an opponent, and so I was already at the end of the 90s, the attack was quite disgusting, but it was rather attacks, anti-Semitic, and of an extreme right, a little nervous. As long as the name Tristan Mendes-France bears a resonance in the history of our country. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] The majority of 419 sufferings. It was about 37 hours later, which was a record, to present its cabinet to the president of the Republic for the traditional cliché. Resistant, great political figure, former president of the Council of Ministers under the fourth republic, Pierre Mandes France, was the target of anti-Semitic attacks. I've always knew, my parents knew, that they were Jewish, my father was not only not practical, but almost, I'd say, a bit anti-Jewish, a bit anti-religious. I didn't get a religious education, but I knew I was Jewish, and if I had forgotten it, people would still remember me. That played a role, of course, later. It was obvious that when I had responsibilities to take, the political adversaries didn't miss to use all their weapons, including antisemitism, against me. These attacks were repeated decades later, against their little son. For example, in June 2021, with the opium of my latest gassionist, Riva Roll. To attack me, they used a formula, which was "Mindesse anti-France", rather than "Mindesse France". Well, why not? Except that, it's my mother who reminded me of that. When I showed her Riva Roll, she said to me, "But wait, Riva Roll had already used this term before, but for your great-grandfather." And by digging a little into the archives, we found a Riva Roll from 1982, at the trial of my great-grandfather. There, too, he had called it "Mindesse anti-France". And so it was crazy to see, I don't know, 40 years later, or a few years later, to see that they had used the same terminology to denigrate me, the same word, the same symbolic vehicle to attack me, the same formula, "Mindesse anti-France". We were talking about my great-grandfather during his death in 1982. And I spent the years of 1920 to try to denigrate me. Which is also quite disappointing to see that the attacks that there were against my great-grandfather, anti-Semitic attacks, often carried on the physics. But it's a very classic, in anti-Semitism, I mean, historical, of course, we are talking about the birth of the Jews. And so Pierre Maudetrans was very good at it. Why attack on his physics? Because Jean-Marie Le Pen had things in the back, on the physics of PMF. And I must say that, well, me too, obviously, I also had the attack on my physics. Whether it was on the drawings of Henri Varolle, where I have a protuberant nose, he thinks that I have a protuberant nose. But he was really drawn in a very, very caricatural way, which clearly, in both eyes, obviously, to all this "fantasmagorist", all this anti-Semitic imagination. But I saw it unfold in much more surprising spaces. And this is where the conspiracy allows the circulation of motifs, sometimes anti-Semitic, that can spread in other areas of life. It's really powerful vectors of anti-Semitic motifs. And it attacks on the nose. I saw it appear in a spectacular way, strangely, in the tweets of Bubba. Bubba is one of the most famous French rapporteurs. He sold several millions of albums. Bubba started to have fun criticizing me, because he perceives me as an agent of the system, especially around the Covid, because I criticized him on some of the positions he had had to have. And rather than attacking me a little bit on the bottom, he attacked me on the physics and on the nose, by making jokes or reference jokes on my nose. And it was pretty crazy, because he has more than 6 million subscribers, and a lot of people who follow him, who are not necessarily ideologically strongly tinted people. But I saw a whole bunch of people, but fans of Bubba, having fun laughing at my nose. Without realizing that, I mean, when you wear the name I wear, if you make a joke on my nose, frankly, people who have a little bit of historical culture say to themselves right away, "This is not a photo, this is like a big, big cliché, anti-Semite, a huge cliché, anti-Semite." Especially because I had fun going out at that time, images of the anti-Jewish exhibition, which was organized during Pétain. There was a huge exhibition on how to recognize the Jews. And at the time, there was a photo of my grandfather. During the first three days, 13,000 people visited this remarkable exhibition, where the documents and photographs were assembled, demonstrating the Jewish period in all areas of national activity. These graphs, this tableau, these statistics, really give the vertigo. They prove that France, victims of its generosity and its traditional hospitality, especially since 1936, was in Jewish. And in that same exhibition, there was a huge moulin with a leading Jewish protuberant on how to recognize the Jews. So it was something that deeply impacted the French history and imagination. In short, I see Bouba who himself would be appropriate for this reason and then, I think, there is also Azelbert who has had fun playing the same language on my nose. Xavier Azelbert is the patron of the French conspiration site. So it's crazy to see these repulsive motifs with an extremely long history that has deep roots in the very distant anti-Semitic imagination of French people. Reflected in the space of the concosphere, re-injected which takes life through the anti-Semitic attacks against me and my physique and my nose. And what I find quite vertiginous is the bascule that there was with both the web and especially the social networks where suddenly my study subject struck me in the figure. What I mean by that is that I couldn't talk about this subject without that this subject really intervened me. In the 90s, when I was talking about the extreme right, I couldn't talk about it every day. There could have been a sudden eruption in an article or a radio broadcast or something to be mentioned. But it was just quite distant. There was no daily commitment. There was no proximity between me and my study subject. From the web, especially on social networks, suddenly this study subject struck me in the figure. There was a sort of... He entered my intimacy. What I mean by that is that I couldn't talk about these figures of extreme right, racist, anti-Semitic, and completist, without that instantly they intervened me and that their own community intervened me. And that really changed my relationship with my study subject because there are these two thousand sort of relationships that are almost physical, organic. That's the term. There is a sort of organic link that is created between what I denounce and me. And on social networks, on conspiracy sites, Tristan Mandes-France discovered another image of himself. In the creative, positive characters in English can create a crazy power that I don't have. And each time it's vertiginous. We imagine that I have relationships, entry gates with the power that I have to say that Macron is my thing. That I work clearly for the largest American agencies, the Mosa but the CIA. There is really this fantasy of all power. Because it's also a sort of heritage of a rich, global family. I think there must be this image of a living elite that once comes out of a million somewhere. But it's really this image of all power that is crazy if you see the decor of an artisan who is crazy. I'm at home on my computer with my little mouse clicking on stuff. I'm really like anyone on the computer who has access. Almost everyone has access. I am in fact a great, great normality in my daily life. People would be very surprised that I'm very cascaded. I'm not necessarily someone extraordinarily sociable. So I have a rather basic life in my daily life. The difference between the crazy image of almost Romanesque that some communities can imagine. Sometimes it's true that these accusations can be pretentious to smile. In other words, weapons and in the cold. One of the attacks is probably the most subject and the most the most difficult to live. They are the ones who take on an accusation of pedocriminalism. To accuse the opponent of pedocriminalism. And it's a systematic attack of the conspiracy as soon as we denounce false and false accusations of pedocriminalism towards such or such personalities. When we start to mention the simple fact that this person is not a pedocriminality instantly. In the conspiracy we are perceived as supporters of pedocriminality and therefore we are pedophiles. This attack is difficult to live because there is no answer. Whether it is good. If we answer in a tweet "No, I am not a pedophile" there is no meaning. There is only justice that can tell if someone is a pedocriminality or not. To defend themselves is to enter into the game of accusation. So we don't answer to these accusations. But it remains there as a task, especially since we are father and son something that leaves a mark on the mother. And that is worrying. Why? Because saying that someone is a pedophile or a pedocriminality impregnates the retinue of those who read these messages and it is probably the worst crime that exists. We can't do worse than the pedocriminality. Those who believe, who enter in this complete delirium saying "Athel has been accused of pedocriminality" it is for sure. There is no photo. It must be. It significantly lowers the ground of reason for those who follow these communities. And it increases the virulence of those who attack you. What is also worrying is that the plotters are interested in the other members of the Tristan-Bendez-France family. For example, on equality and reconciliation a site founded by the anti-Semitic polemist Alain Sorral. Sorral decided to make a paper on me. Alain already did several before. But this paper wanted to be more global in his eyes. And he wanted to try to see what the networks were around me. And for that he started to do a work in my family relations all stupidly. And he listed it. People of my family. And we are a small family. We reproduce a little in the Tristan-Bendez-France family. We are not very many. He simply listed it. My sister, his companion, my wife, my beautiful parents, my cousins. He started to call. By the way, people I have relations with in any case, he named them. To my kids. And that was quite disturbing. First because I was trying to protect my loved ones. Protect them. I have nothing to do, I can't do anything. Except to try to get them. So that I was in a position of don't worry, there are no consequences. It's serious. It's a demo. Nothing will come out. But I had to do it. It's not my ideological commitment. It's not my role. It's not for my loved ones. It's not what I want to do. So it's not a regrettable position. To be in a position where I try to reassure them. It worries them. Because they wonder why I reassured them. They don't have the codes. They don't see what I observe. So by coming to them, trying to reassure them, I think it was also worrying. So in short, I was in this walk around me. While being in a position where I didn't reassure them. What I don't have here is... I imagine that there are no major risks. I'm not one of the most exposed personalities. I know that there are things that can happen. Frankly, I'm not on the front of the stage. Unfortunately, there are many other famous personalities that are much more exposed than me. But there is always this concern from the beginning. That in this babbling and in this significant visibility that there will be, by the way, who have a crazy audience, millions of visitors per month. That in this mass of people, 99.99% of the people who are in it will never cause me any harm. But there are still 0.001% of people who are maybe fragile, who have psychological problems. And who, by saying these harsh words and caricatures of a character that I am not, of our power that I am not, well... As a matter of life, if I never had to cross them. Yes, there is a little concern. A matter of probability. Of probability. Which is extremely weak, but which is there. Which makes that, as a debacle sword, which makes that in these moments, we are not necessarily at ease. But his own concern, Tristan Mendez-France, he does not share it. I protect him from all this and I do not talk about it, which is quite on a personal path, a human path. A... a center of interest so huge in his life, which is a subject that we almost do not mention with his relatives. We preserve them from that. And it is a little strange what I am going to say, but I am in parallel with my father, who was a math researcher. And I remember having told him years ago, it must be very strange that all your life revolves around a matter that fascinates you, that fascinates you. You live all your life around maths, and it is something that you cannot share with what you like the most. Well, strangely, I am a little in that record there, with my relatives. There is a whole universe that I observe that I can taste, that I do not share with the rest around me. And after 30 years of data, compiled, dissected and analyzed, what conclusion can we draw? I have the feeling of having to concentrate all the signals and the symptoms of our sick society. And the signals are red. We see it in the blood and we can see it absolutely well. And so, I fear that in the coming years, this acid, the surface of this field of observation is spreading and contaminating spheres that were not contaminated until now. The spheres of power, not to mention the first American power, but to see this planetary metastasis of the hemisphere, it is really a worrying cinema. We all have this worry feeling, I think we are all trapped by this current moment of diversion. But when we observe it through the fringe, through the cry of reading of the conspiracy, it is even more worrying. It is even more worrying. And for the decades that I observe the conspiracy, there is one thing that I keep in mind, it is that the movements that we see from the bottom, the waves that we see in the hemisphere, are things that are at the same time perennial, can last in time and even increase. And for what I observe today, I fear that we are in a bit of a rush. [Music] You just listened "Réveillez-vous" the podcast of Conspiracy Watch. Thank you Tristan Mandes-France for his testimony. This episode was written, edited and made by Eloise Weiss and prepared with Victor Motin's help. You can find all the episodes on your favorite listening platforms and do not forget to subscribe to be notified of the next releases. For the podcast, you can also share it and leave us five stars to make it known and make a donation on our Lul page.