Ep. #192 - Chris Tiffin (Aisle)

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All right everybody. I have a great guest coming up next and I will talk to you in just a second If it's on if it's on the board that means I know I have to remember it Okay, but then what just happened so a firm one who's listening who who is just now seeing this Chris I was dying laughing had had a bunch of to-do's on this whiteboard behind him and then we were trying to blur out the screen couldn't figure it out We just went with belts just to race it all but yeah What happens to all your stuff now that you don't have in front of you? Yeah, it's just like how we determine product grown that whatever Whatever the brand is screaming at us most to build is what we're gonna build so you know, it's okay Ulas it's whatever is screaming at me Tiffin. Please do this. You totally forgot Then it will make its way back onto the board, you know, okay? No, that's fair. I it's you know It's funny. You say that and I will I'm sure we'll get into this to some degree I I have a I have a problem of Overanalyzing all the things that I need to do and then not you know to be like I'm almost spending too much time worrying about what I need to do versus just you know, I don't know running into whatever is the most important So there you go. That's a good way to do it. Yes, dude And that's literally what I literally write down things that I have to do one two three four five and I I Force myself to do them sequentially Otherwise, it's like It will not get done because the stuff that's usually number one is this is this stuff that you that I do not want to do right? Yeah, I mean that's that's the tip and hack right there Well, I was gonna say it just to dive straight into it. That's that's a cool way to do it So do you what do you use the whiteboard most time? I'm moving my microphone Because that's not far away. There's what do you do that on the whiteboard? Or do you normally do that on like pen and paper and app? What do you use? Well, yeah, I went from pen and paper and now I'm using I'm using their girlfriends iPad Okay, because the pen and paper I have like 35 sheets everywhere. Yeah Yeah, and then it would be like Chris your office is a mess and she's also the only person who called me Chris So yeah, I was like all right, let's love love. I just use our iPads not never lose anything But the whiteboard behind us that is purely for you got to do this yesterday. Oh, okay, so urgent urgent things Oh, yeah, okay Got it very cool love it well for everyone listening we just jumped right in but Chris would love to Just give everyone a little bit of background of you Yourself and then what you're building and then obviously we'll dive all into your background too I appreciate you probably you know It's all the listeners. I was like guys. I'm the most Terrible podcast guest because I just ran blonde and I get too excited But I appreciate you guys returning in so let's get into it Long story short, right? I was one of the earliest employees at super coffee right young enough and Early enough to live on the brothers couch. Okay. I didn't know that part and it was funny Wait, quick to get quick to get there. I actually Jimmy spoke at my school my fourth year of college, right? I say fourth year as opposed to senior year because I was gonna be super senior at the time Okay, yeah, I was taking a victory lap, right? And I I slid into his Instagram DMs and I was like hey mister deceit go. I'm really excited TA you speak next week, right like leading the corneest thing ever I was either me or Jim you're like our relationship. It's like I Litted grew up with those guys on their couch, right? Like I learned everything from them. So it's just a super funny super funny moment Yeah, live on the brothers couch Rand DTC for the first two years, right? Because they're like different you're pretty nerdy or kind of weird you wear glasses Why don't you wear why don't you run our online business, right? I love that Yeah, but ingrained it. I was the only not six four future NFL running back on the team So I was like alright whatever I guess my six foot 185 pounds soaking wet frame. We'll just have to sell coffee on the internet. Yeah Yeah, man, so scale it from seven to eight of 5.2 million in a year and then the year after right you're trying to for a good number But this common theme kept coming up right where it's we know everything about our Instra shop we know everything about our online shopper, right? Name email we can make a dollar in a minute right by descending attacks returning on an ad but the crazy part is 90% of our business came from in store right and What that required is hundreds of sales people millions of trades spend right like all these activities That do one thing they do not tell you who the heck your in store shopper is right? They are what they're buying you can get that info But you're gonna have to pay mental or credit card like any of these any of these places A ton of money right so left kind of launch out of toe and to tell retail brands who their in store shopper is why are they buying and most importantly how you can get them to Reengage with you Yeah, man got it. Okay, so you you Going for how did you make the leap from sending a DM to Jimmy to actually Getting hired on the team that seems like that was quite a stretch. You end up running into math the event or how did you how did you kind of connect those dots? My almost would have been on the modern it was a super small Like semna right it was like seven people okay It was seven people and I was just up there asking questions right all that stuff And he's like hey man, let's keep the conversation going he was like the love he's like Introducing a bunch of people whatever let's see what we do this summer right and I was originally supposed to be an intern in DC Right for Ray clatterball Shout-out to Ray, but I was like hey man can I come to up into the city, right? Okay, so yeah, man that's how it happened. I was out there even before I was even hired. I was out there slinging super coffee bottles Because you know how college you have like that a thousand dollars and credit amount of like a quarter or whatever Oh, yeah, like the you had to like spend it like the shopping mart thing whatever Yes, yeah, I was out here Bought ripping super coffee off the shelves at our at our local as he's market right and just handing them out all my friends Oh, you bottom yourself and then just gave him away Yeah, and then I would text you me and right like hey guys. I literally just moved a hundred units off-of-loyles camp that campus wiped it out completely right Yeah, what is they say that you weren't were you hired on the team at this point? No, that was just for me to tell them I'm psycho and now so that was just that was kind of like you just going above and beyond to try to get an opportunity. Good for you. I'm doing totally forgot that. I'm doing. I totally forgot that story until you lit it. I asked me that question of what got me there. And that's exactly what got me there. And I can only imagine I mean being Jimmy and the or the brothers hearing that some kid on a college campus spent his own money to buy their product to then just give out for free. Like I'd be like, yeah, let's bring this guy in today. What are we doing? Yeah, man. That was funny. Wow. Good time. What made you think to do that? Did you just love the product or did you love the story or Jimmy himself? Like what was it that made you even go do that? Yeah, I think I was just you know, it was at that time, right? Where I was like, I have no idea. I was always super like I hate this word, right? Like entrepreneurial, right? Like I in high school me and my best friends had a landscaping company called Wheat Boys and our tagline was we'd burn it for free, right? That's amazing. Yeah, the irony of that is all of my friends, my two best friends were like valedictorian and saluted Torian. They all went to IVs and never mess like division one athletes. They weren't messing with with that back then, right? So is ironic. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, it brought I was just like, wow, I wanted to be like these guys, right? And my girlfriend's still around on me where she's like, you're just waking up at 5am working out because the brothers are and I'm like, I thought they're doing an omthune. Hey, man, if it works, it works. You know, don't knock it until you try it, right? That's what I'm saying. But yeah, man, that was a story. That's wild. Okay. So you're out here slinging coffee for free, not even for free. You're paying to sling coffee for free. And then you get an opportunity. So did you end up dropping out of school to go work at super coffee? Yeah. I, again, I hate the whole fantasy side. I'm super early. I dropped out. I just, I like this ad just didn't come back. Okay. You have one more year and you just didn't come back. Yeah, I had, I actually had half a year because I had to finish a loyal one. Um, has a language requirement, right? So you have to take up the one of four. And I was in both, I was a real try harder early on. So I took both Chinese and Arabic. Oh, two very hard ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll, we'll sure, Jungkook, uh, I forget it now, but I suppose I'm not a good Chinese student. Um, but yeah, man, I just slowly kind of just quietly left, right? Then moved up to New York City, lived in bedstie for two months on a blow up mattress, right? Before the brothers were cool enough with me. They're like, Hey, Tiffin, why don't you just sleep on her couch? You're not sleeping on a blow up mattress and some random apartment in bedstie that you're renting off Facebook. Okay. Sure. So yeah, did that and then lived on the brother's couch for a little bit. Yeah, man, that's how we got there. That's crazy, man. Well, I mean, that's cool story, because I don't know, you know, people know a lot about the brothers, but interesting to know that someone else who was there early on, um, you know, was struggling just the same. So you get to do that. Um, so in the new even explain D to C ramping quickly, what was it like getting the keys to D to C? You seem like, because just from, you know, I've talked to you a few times, you seem like kind of person that you're totally fine with getting something given the keys. There's no real way besides you just figuring it out. Is that, is that, was that kind of like the perspective from the brothers was like, Hey, your Chris figured this out. We know we got something here, but you can take it to a whole another level if you just put some hard work into it. Yeah. Yeah. And to just find what it looked like at the very beginning. And I've had really Jimmy in the brothers gave me great mentors and agencies to lean on all these things, right? It wasn't a, it wasn't a one trip. I want not a one trip, pony, right? Like, literally, it's almost like that saying, we're the summation of your five best friends, you know, like, let's say that when you're going out, whatever. Um, this was like, I'm the summation of the five people that I had around at the table, but not that super coffee, right? Yeah, man, it was, it was fun because I had no idea what a PNL was. I had no idea what a three PL was. I had no idea how to run ads or how they even worked, right? Or that literally at the time, DTC was more of a science than in art, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a lot of figuring it out. There's this one story where this, this sums it up, right? I forget where year it was, but we did a very large amount on Amazon in one day, right? Like in sales. Yeah. A very, very large amount, like an uncare, like an observant, right? And we were all so hyped. And then a couple hours later, I had to deliver the bad news where I was like, yeah, guys, all of those units that we just moved somehow, someone found a coupon code. Yeah. And it was just like deflated, right? It was, that summed it up, right? Where it's like, oh man, we figured it out. And then it's like just kidding, right? It's like, yeah. Yes, I had a coupon code that went rogue for a few hours. Yeah, man, it was fun. Learned a ton. Mostly just around how do you hear that? Right? Like I hate that again, I hate, I hate all the sayings, right? I'm such a not a saying person, but it's like first principle, first principle problem solving, right? You get to the core problem. I was like, okay, what am I really trying to solve? Right? And for me, it was always, how do we hit this revenue target number, this quarter? Right? What do we have to do? Okay. And just work backwards. So even back then, you guys were focused very heavily on the monthly sales numbers. Now, I had one job. I had one job, and it was like, if it hit this number as efficiently as you can, right? And that's all that matter, right? And what would you do just because I think this is interesting for people who are in this world? What would you do if you're, let's say, halfway through a month and you're more than halfway behind your goal? What are some of the things that Chris is like, oh shit, here we go. I need to do this, this, and this to hit my number at the end of the month. Yeah, man, oh, these folks, there's a, there's a couple of things. One is if we had, depending on the month, right? If we had seasonal inventory, I would then immediately communicate with our agency, which is Lunar Solar at the time. And I'd be like, you know, right? We got to, we got to get an email queued up for the end of the month because we're sitting on all this seasonal inventory. We know people love it. Slush. It's in a crazy fun email with a poem and a saying, a fun, like, play on a words. And let's try to move this product, right? So we would do the weirdest things where it's like, buy two, get one off or like all these weird offers. But yeah, dude, it was all hands on deck, right? We would rip through creative iterations. This could be as possible on paid social right to try to find something that would hit to make that goal easier. Yeah, man, wow. Take me down memory lane. That's what I tend to do on this show. Okay, so yeah, I get it. You're pulling some discounts. You're trying to get creative. Pulling seasonals when it's time to move seasonals. All that makes a ton of sense. There's one more that I'll just throw as a little nugget. And maybe we could put it on the Patreon or whatever you get a paywall chain or whatever those are called. But there's one other interesting tactic that I'll share with you listeners, only if they want to hear it because we're not going to say it live on the air because I think a very large e-commerce player would not appreciate my hack. Okay. Yeah, so you want to find it. Let's hop off line. Yeah, I'll leave you with it. So then if I need your listeners or anything, you'll have you'll have the secrets. Love it. Okay, we'll definitely we'll we'll we'll record that one offline. I'm dying for that one. That's very cool. What with any good stories of, you know, months where you just totally missed the number and you got a you got maybe a tough conversation from from Jimmy or another one of the brothers. Oh, every almost every month. Every month, right? Good again, few massive goals, right? Is that the time I came right in? I came in a few months prior to this series. Right? Okay. Yeah. They post series V said during the heat of it. And every time, just massive massive goals in which 70 we hit 70 80 85 percent of the time. Right? And I think what I appreciate from the brothers is like as long as the efforts there. Right? As long as you are literally trying as hard as humanly possible and doing whatever you can, 75 80 percent 85 that's still win. Right? You missed it. You missed it. But it's still still a huge number because you missed it because we were going for some of the Lucas. Sure. Okay. Yeah, man. No, I love that. That's a good way to think about it too. Effort consistent effort over end results necessarily. Just show that's like that. And that's what I'm learning now about now being in the brother shoes. It's this job sucks. This job just stops. And it's tough, isn't it? It's all dude. It is so tough, man. And I think the difference, the differentiator is just showing up. Right? Let it just put in the same amount of effort every single day. Yeah. And I was thought that was so corny. Right? Like I was like, this is, I was like, guys, why are we keep checking this? Right? Like this is kind of a clubism or whatever that word is. But now being in that seat, I'm like, wow, it literally is just about showing up to every single meeting with a great attitude. Right? Like we'll literally just putting in the work, knocking off that number one thing on the due list and I have no interest in doing whatsoever. 100% but it's like if I'm not doing it, nobody's doing it. Yeah man, I know it's, I heard it quote recently that I look at every Monday because I think it's a really good reminder when you like get back into the week and I've felt it a lot over the last you know year and a half plus that I've been building my thing but it's better to be consistently good than occasionally great and it's so true right because it's if you're able to do even something that's small but you do it five six seven days a week versus I feel like a lot of people who are getting started with anything get overwhelmed with is they think they have to get all of it done or the biggest thing done in order for there to be any progress and it's like in reality it's just a bunch of little things stacked up over years of time that gets you to where you want to be and not just you know a few days every couple months that you're like grinding that's not gonna get you very far yeah yeah right and it's so it's like well because when you have that realization you kind of realize wow okay this is gonna be much longer journey than I expected right and then yeah man that's I love I love that thing and building off that right I heard I was talking to some investor two weeks ago and they're like yeah tipping in this market right surviving is thriving right wow legitimately and we can bet on the people who are just surviving are those that are shown up every single day right being consistently good day and end day out and I'm just like wow that is such a crazy reminder that we're not gonna hit hormones every single month or every single quarter or every single day I'm like no what is and the expectation is that that's not should it be the expectation yeah man no I love that it's so true you know what I thought about the other day and now another analogy is even you know baseball right like the best the best are hitting just over like getting on base three out of 10 times so that just means they're you know they're they're they're doing good most of the time right yeah it's not hitting home runs every you know it's an interesting way to think about it yeah it's separate you know just be informed the only only sports now that doesn't work is kickers if there's no reason they should ever miss a field call you're right that's a fair point that's a fair point there they're kind of well unless you watch did you watch the bangles Pittsburgh Steelers game yesterday that was pretty funny for everyone listening yeah there was I think they were like four or five miss field goals I might be exaggerating but it felt like that it seemed like every other one was a mess every other one is like that's your job yeah yeah millions of dollars to get about 25 dollars or whatever that is you got hit it yeah I know I agree but I guess at the same point they're being consistently good like they're good most if they're good most the time and they're but they were only occasionally great meaning they hit like one out of 10 they wouldn't have a job so if they if they hit these if they hit mid-range kicks 95% of the time they're probably gonna have a better you know better chance of having a job than not I don't know it's true though that's funny that is funny it's a good one so cool so you were at super coffee for a long time not a long time but we just a little bit to years yeah to yeah do it right around you okay that's crazy it wasn't that I mean that's not that long the grand scheme of things but I know my experience at our X bar to two and a half years is like basically like 10 years at a normal company so you know I know how that goes you you probably drank through a fire hose and learned more than you could have ever imagined right where in that to two and a half year journey then to transition to aisle where did you start to come up with that concept you I know you mentioned at the beginning just like wanting to understand the customer better at retail given that's where the vast majority of consumers are no where did that concept kind of come around and then what was the initial kind of hypothesis and how did you even get the ball rolling again thinking zero to one here how did you go from knowing it's a big issue and there needs to be a you know a solution for it in the CPG space to actually being okay I'm gonna get the ball rolling on my concept like when did that happen and how did it happen so it had let's say I was at super coffee for two and a half years right it was those last kind of six months because what I started here all the time right is as it became hard and harder to hit kind of top line DTC growth numbers right it was okay different how can we how can we use DTC to drive retail right how can we connect the offline to online shopper right so it actually all started with I'm wondering if I have a bottle around it started with me trying to be slide and put a text out then on the bottle right so early early on there was on the super coffee bottle on the side there was text my coffee to two nine zero seven one right or there was my cream or my pods or all them were on the bottle at one given time right with the whole mindset like the whole kind of problem statement and solution being okay let's see where these people are picking it up right and let's see and the event that they can burn online will know exactly where they live right so if you so when someone texted that number did you then respond and say like thanks for texting where did you purchase this type of thing no it was even like I was even thinking about it like that right I was just like okay let's see if we can people if people will pick up a single bottle right will they text in my coffee to two nine zero seven one and then they'll be in our general flow right so then they'll get the 10% off for the welcome series or the abandoned cards or all the ad hoc stuff right so just like a baseline of okay can we get people from retail to then convert online okay so that's how originally started to be as like okay we got to have some testing hypothesis right see that when we know driving from digital to retail's hard because we weren't gonna run like store locator ads right or like brand awareness ads because that was the waste of money right and we we had to take that budget and make it useful to driving DTC so it all started there and then it kind of just developed right where I was like wait a minute if super coffee is having this issue right where we have no idea who are in search of risk or how can we drive that volume and the brothers are one of the most prolific fundraisers of that era right I was like everybody started to have that problem so yeah without a little hesitation right it was probably the spend of six days I developed the concept right then I told the brothers I sat down the brothers and I was like hey guys look like I'm putting in my 60 days right so this you didn't even have funding nothing ready to go and use gave your 60 days Chris you're you're you're just you just jump into stuff man love it oh yeah man it's like me erasing the wayport it's the same thing it's like I always I wish people would have seen the beginning of it I didn't record before that for you on purpose but I was like there was a lot on that wayport that you erase and I was like no take a picture do something you're just like the am's gonna erase it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I would have been there like making sure I got a perfect picture and then save it make sure it's saved and then I would erase it that's so funny yeah that's come I'm sure it'll come up again but yeah it was I put it my 60 days how how the thought was I got this how plug and I had one hypothesis right it is I believe in three things death taxes and no one has space with their phone print on their iPhone app right like that was the core that was the core thing because at the time I think I was 23 or 24 years old I didn't remember how old I am now and I was like I'm not using fetch or I bought a or a paper coupon or a digital coupon right I'm like I'm I'm supposed to be the generation that loves apps and lots all these things I'm like heck no right so yeah 60 days hey guys this is the idea I would love your support I would love your back king yada yada yada I'm gonna go do it right okay oh so so you so you let in with I'm leaving in 60 days but I would love you guys to back this yeah I was like I would love do they have any sense of this before you gave your 60 day notice like did you talk to him about it and kind of they knew it was going on I think I pre-read the brothers a little bit because I never want to blindside them sure so it's like I was thinking about this right and we Jimmy and I would always talk about it at the end of the day I was just like dude how do we figure this problem out right yeah then I was like I can't give him 30 days right because I was like these guys have changed my life right like I'm all about Joe I'm all about impulsivity and jumping in and really sending it but I'm not gonna leave people high and dry who change my life you know yeah totally yeah 60 days we taught we tried to do what we worked through with the the gave me introductions out of their brands but yeah man then we just went out and did it so how did you I mean first of all congrats on that like that's that's a leap of faith that a lot of people never take when you when 60 days hit and you're like okay I'm fully doing aisle now where was aisle like did you have any funding were you able to pay yourself at all like what give everyone kind of the background on just that alone like what the what the stance was for lack of better words with aisle and where you were you know financially and just from a brand like a overall product perspective because it's it's overall it's a product we'll explain in a minute what aisle is to everybody yeah wow man this is funny I haven't thought about this stuff in such a long time so after I left to do I was crying like a baby for days right when you left supercoffee you were oh yeah cuz I was like that's my faith I'm like that was legitimately my family right and I know it's super corny again I'm but whatever like those guys changed my life right now I was like wow I'm going out and doing my own thing I don't have Jimmy to lean on or the brothers to protect me whatever yeah it was emotional because I was like I learned all of my good habits from that team right from literally everybody there I was like wow each of you had an impact on my life yeah that was crazy luckily right so being there for two and a half years I was able to sell half of my half of my stock right half of my oh gotcha okay nice but then I quickly learned about liquidity preference taxes and the fact that you stop right so common stock does not guarantee the same price that that series be investor just paid for yeah so I learned I learned a good lesson so the paydata that I thought I had was still incredibly great right it helped me for 12 months but I don't have lesson but yeah I think for the first two months right I just kind of built it on this side looking watching Google building it on the side and playing like Fortnite and just kind of like decompressing right okay okay okay so you had a little bit it wasn't the cushion you thought you're gonna have but you didn't have getting somewhat of a cushion to help kind of give you a year runway to get it off the ground that's good enough okay very cool yeah yeah your over your one year of personal runway right so then it was right around May or April April or May of last year right that's when I start to have some traction right because I built we got this product that it looked good from from the user perspective but it was literally just me and my family and friends responding to people on the back and right so it wasn't automated it was literally use him in a picture of your receipt and then us on the back and we looked at the receipt we confirmed it we send the Venmo right superman you will incredibly bare bones there was no sophistication about it at all yeah and in real quick I think it would be helpful Chris to even pause on that where you were in that time frame give everyone a real quick elevator pitch on what aisle is so that we can get back into how you got to this point people understand what we're talking about yes yes so so really quick there right aisle is aisle is a tool that allows a brand to turn any of their marketing channels right into an install purchase through an SMS retail loyalty program okay in non buzz wordy speech that means you sign up for super coffees install loyalty program you text a picture of your receipt to a given phone number and then you get instantly Venmo right the way I liked someone explained it to me was you know any retailer that you normally shop at now these brands can target you so if you buy super coffee for example and next time you go to your local grocery store if super coffee's there they could run a two dollar off coupon you now have this app it's called aisle you go in you buy the super coffee for full price when you leave you get your seat you take a picture that receipt you basically text text it to Chris and the team at aisle and then you get a Venmo immediately for the two dollars off so correct yep yep that was that was something that doesn't exist today for everyone listening that that is as as awesome of a concept as that is it's amazing that that is something that you know Chris and I met the first time I was like this is ingenious I've dealt with this world at our X bar for so long that I know the pain and agony brands are going through and so anyway genius like genius concept it's gonna be huge but that's essentially what it is yeah it's so funny right it's always on that vein right super simple we removed all friction from the brand side and the user side right and on that it's I get out the sales calls nowadays and like the sales call usually takes ten minutes because I'm like here's what it though and I'm not sure that it's a great thing or a bad sign usually they close right so it's but it's hey this is what it looks like from the user side this is what it looks like from the brand side this is your functionality are you ready to go right we were all at any you know friction or our obvious stuff but yeah so last year right last year is important to note that we were actually the consumer product so trade just like you said a user would sign up for aisle right they would do their normal grocery shopping they would take a picture of their receipt they would send it to that phone number and then they would get instantly then right it was a hundred percent manual it was it was crazy right we scaled up super quickly right from zero to sixty thousand users and four months we had fifty five brands during that time we were able to raise a million and a half bucks damn congratulations thank you man it was it was fun I mean then again who didn't raise money last year right I make that joke because it's literally people were given it away yeah from general catalyst folder food group quanta funds and like strategic and people in our network right and but very quickly I learned my first kind of true hard lesson as a founder it's growth at all costs dies very quickly okay that that's my like I'm very much you go get it out of you I will do this yesterday right like if if we needed help on the engineering I would literally go on youtuber google watch a video and then say wait I think I can help you guys out what do you think typically I was usually wrong and my close-up and they did right but yeah man we we launched last year as a consumer product scale boy too quickly and then right around November December that's when we like we can't do this anymore right where I had to make a super hard call of this is not gonna end well for anybody right the team was getting burnt out because we were like we were manually responding to thousands of users every single day got it yeah like the brand dashboards and all this stuff is held together by duct tape very transparent yeah sure it was just like we we just they came before we built it right going back to a good old baseball example yeah yeah yeah yeah it's good good we think about it yes so November December that's when total investors like hey guys we definitely have something here right we definitely have something we have to work out the Kings we have to be able to handle infinite scale right and that's exactly what we did right so we have a wizard of an engineer Dan and I'm right and pretty much in three months from December to pretty much April he rebuilt the whole entire thing from scratch wow he built the whole entire thing from scratch and now I can happily say aisle as the tool has handled over 350,000 conversations and like a human only has to reply to maybe a hundred per day oh wow so it's cut this down drastically it is it is single handly on the lot where I business it why we're still around yeah okay but yeah man that's that's a quick back source now getting to where we are today right oh of where hopefully a lot of listeners will see is we power all the brands loyalty programs right so super coffee no's vital cocoa like any program and a lot of them will see online right where like as did you last words like hey text us for one free can of culture pop or one free jar of dough right or any of these things that's where we power but yeah man got it okay so now it's kind of a V2 of the app that's out into the world for I'm so curious too and I think back to so using Venmo was a great idea I mean that that's just something a lot of people R.H. obviously use and I'm sure that that was an easy way to to kind of for lack of better words like make that seamless where did the where did the funding come from when you Venmo someone though was that was that part of the raise was because you kind of have is it does the platform work where you guys Venmo immediately but then you're getting paid by the brands on the back end yep yep exactly right and as I was gonna say and that's one thing that we really had to work out right cash conversion cycle right so pretty much starting from the beginning right on May 1 right when we officially launch is brands have a card on file and we charge every Monday for the previous week right so our cash cycle we only float seven days right um because that's that's a solid amount right I would we would do it much faster but straight to so dang expensive maybe cut the bar margin a little bit too much but yeah man luckily we got that turned around because that's the biggest thing about these cash back hats right like being totally transparent is you see them stop pop up gain a lot of traction then immediately die because it's usually like a under like a fundamental underlying cash flow problem right because then the brinet like then the whoever's advertising will be like oh we want that 30 net 60 net 90 it's like you gotta just go on a war chest if you have a successful app you gotta be sitting on a war chest yeah no that makes a ton of sense because as you grow your cash cover even on seven days has to get bigger and bigger and bigger right so it's like it's like a problem against worst as you get better yeah so does that mean for you like the fundamental growth trajectory of aisle you you're gonna need more and more funding or is it kind of self funding the growth yeah it right I don't know if you don't want to share that, that's fine. I'm genuinely curious, it's super interesting. - No, Ack, dude, I'm so transparent about this stuff. So luckily we're out of spot right now and a lot of people much smarter than me, where it's if X, right, so if we're doing X amount in Venmo or PayPal transactions in seven days and this is our cash balance, then transfer this amount 'cause we'll hit in three to five days and you'll always kind of have this maintenance coverage, right? Because what we don't want is or we can't have, right? Is floating way more, just to be say floating way more to PayPal having that could take up all of our working cash and we can't do the things we want to do, right? And take advantage of opportunities we want to take advantage, right 'cause all of our cash is hung up in PayPal. So yeah, it's almost pretty much just got down with a really smart, almost like, I think he's at PhD in Applied Math and it's like if this is your PayPal balance and you do this much in a fun rolling 14 day period, transfer this much into your PayPal on this date and you'll be good to go. - Oh, wow, so you guys have this all built out? - We have to, right? It's a hot, so you know the ones we die, because my worst fear that keeps me up at night is we miss a transfer and then all of the brands no one gets paid, right? None of their users get paid, right? There's submitting receipts and there's no Venmo money to send. - Yeah, 'cause that's our whole entire business, it's instantly. - Yeah. - But if we can't deliver on that, it's, we don't have a business. - Yeah, true, and if you have, even if you have a few interactions where people have issues getting paid immediately, I'm sure that's kind of like word of mouth you don't want, right? Something people probably don't want to mess around with more than a few times. - And that's why we have, I have one rule, right? As it relates to kind of brands in support, 24 hours or less response time, right? So if a brand is ever like, hey, this person didn't get paid, we jump on it right away. - Okay. - Because it's not how well, it is not how well we do, right? Or it's like, yeah, we move literally 10,000 units for you this month, right? And you have 25,000 phone numbers, all these things, but it's, you guys in the path this one user, now this one user feels terrible, does not like my brand, because you guys didn't do your job, right? - Got it, and that makes sense. - Yeah. - And then for the brands, for people listening, I'm sure this is a question. So the one other thing that your app provides is the brands get the information from those consumers, right? They get the name, the phone number, all that stuff that you normally would get from a D to C order, now you get that from a retail transaction? - Yep, exactly, right? As long as that user converts and texts that, that texts that receipt to actual veggies hotline, right? The brand gets that, right? Which is super cool. - Yeah, yeah. - And then for the brands, yeah, that can like, that never can end, right? Just like D to C, like you're growing essentially like a mailing list or a text list that's now consuming a larger growth trajectory, because you're talking about retail, which is for a lot of brands at the stage you're probably working at, their retail presence is growing as fast, if not faster than D to C, you're getting more doors, so it could be a lot more people coming through the pipeline. - And yes, and what's crazy, right? Is what's interesting is with all this, 'cause yes, when the people do convert, you get all that information, but what we're actually finding is equally as valuable as the brands that don't convert. Or is like the users that don't convert, right? - Sure. - Because that would be wake 14 days, and then we said that we have an automated message where it's like, hey, it's say like for on Sansa, all you say in dough, for example, right? Where it's like, hey, it's Sandra, founder of Sansa, notice that you're having to give us a try, why? Right, so now the brand knows, okay, is it because our store locator was an accurate? Right, is it because they looked in the grocery store but they couldn't find us? Right, so your plan or brand spot, you got kicked off shelf, or I know like dry beverage, like dry beverage is literally the wild west, right? Where it's like no plan or brand, you're just kind of on shelf. So it's cool because now these brands can get all of this information they can crowd source out of stocks or voids, right? In addition to getting all of this customer data and lifetime value surveys for people who do convert, right? So it's like a double wind, yeah, we just kind of recently stumbled upon. But yeah. - Oh, that's crazy, yeah, I didn't think about that part. It solves something that, I remember our X-Bar too, that became like a huge issue, was just not understanding if velocities were changing, drastically in store, there's no way to know unless you have like a dirty hands. And even with those guys, like they can only be in so many places so often, and getting that information back can be difficult, I felt like, got it. So it's just like another touch point for people in retail understand what the hell's going on. - If you'd be exactly right, 'cause we just launched, we just released a zip code functionality, right? - Okay. - So now we prompt the user to, hey, give us what your zip code will find the closest store near you, right? Two things happen there. One, you as a user have a much better experience because we do the hard work for you, right? So let's say you sign up for like coconut cold or borough, right? It's like you put in your zip code, we then say, hey, you'll find us or borough at this local retailer, right? Which is two miles away from you. Now if you don't convert, we'll know why, right? 'Cause you either couldn't find it or it wasn't on shelf. And maybe we'll even ask that question, right? So it's like, now you really start to have a complete holistic picture of a user put in their zip code. And now we either know that the user wants it there, right, like crowd sourcing, I'm saying, hey, I want you to carry, like Mr. retailer, we have a thousand people and they'll want that, like a one zero zero one three zip code that wants our product, you should carry us, right? - Yeah. - And then on the other side, it's, hey, you gave us your zip code, we know you're near us why didn't you convert? Now you can try to attach a zip code to a retailer to a reasonable either, then it can work. You literally have everything you need, right? - Super cool. - No. - Wow, okay, that's wild, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys are solving a lot more than just one issue. Very, very cool. I mean, my head's just spinning because obviously as we've chatted before, with always being involved with trade spend at our ex, these are things that we would have jumped all over. So for you and we've talked about this, I think it sounds like obviously the concept makes ton of sense. The funding is something that is a challenge as you grow with scale, which with an app, it seems like that's probably one of the biggest issues and challenges that comes with building something like your building. Is it true to say that, and I'm not saying this from like an arrogance perspective, but just it almost seems like your product is such a need that your problem's gonna be, you're gonna want too many people all at once. Like you're gonna have so many brands. I feel like it's like almost a slam dunk if you approach a brand with this. And then on the consumer side, I don't know why consumers wouldn't also get, this is like a no-brainer for them. So is that, I'm sure that's like, is that a stressful thing? And like trying to understand like, how do you not curb excitement? Because if I'm sitting in your shoes, I'm like, we want all these people. We want all as many brands we possibly could. It's gonna overwhelm the system. And then you also don't want to put people off for too long and though maybe they'll just like forget about it or something else will come along. So how are you guys thinking through all that? - Yeah, man. We're living through that right now actually. So this just became an issue last week. - Okay. - We're not saying that metaphorically. It lit like last week so, and man, many we started with brand number one, which is nuts. Like we started with the, oh, they were OG, Patient Zero brand zero. And now we just crossed over 101 brands on the platform. - Oh wow, congrats from May to now. - Yeah, yeah, dude. And last week it just kind of hit me where I was like, holy, I'm like, I feel overwhelmed, right? And like I like to think I have a very high threshold to just keep hammering and getting after it, right? And for me to feel overwhelmed, and of course a team voice did, but we're like, this is so excited, right? I was like, wow, we officially are now head count constrained. We are officially just getting hammered by everyone. So like all these brands were so excited, right? Like literally enterprise brands, and I'm like, holy smokes, I have no idea how to even begin to service you guys. (laughing) It's just like a different world. - Sure. - Oh yeah, yeah. - Different world. Yeah, man, it's starting to feel like now, and there's a couple things, there's actually two things. One is systemically looking to actually change our pricing to provide more stability in the actual financials of our business, right? Because right now we're just a flat monthly, like a flat fee per user, right? There's no monthly minimums, there's no annual spend, there's nothing like that. So number one, 'cause it's the core of the problem, right? The core of the problem is we have all this momentum, we have all these brands spending all this money, but it's not predictable, it's not truly repeatable. - Yeah. - So it's like, first of all, it's solved for that, because as soon as we solve for that, and I hope to have that solved in the next 30 days, then that's when we can continue to capitalize on the growth of the momentum, by bringing in two engineers and two more account managers. Right, like that is exactly the core. So again, first principle problem, whatever that is, right? And it's our core issue, isn't that we need more head count, right? 'Cause that's how I'm gonna do it. our core issue is we need to provide more stability to our underline business to that allow us the certainty to bring in these people to scale up right yeah so I'm not sure that I answered your question at all no for sure I did I mean it sounds like a complex issue that honestly I'm looking forward to learning more about and staying close in contact with you man because this it just seems like there's such an opportunity and there's so much to figure out which I'm sure is a challenge but also fun at the very same time that's half the fun of entrepreneurship is just figuring stuff out that's wild no really pumped for you again before just to give everyone a background like when I worked at our X bar I was deep into this from trade spend promotional management at our X bar and this is such a key problem that is Chris alluded to no matter the size of the company if you're selling in retail this is a this is a challenge and something that really no other company has has solved very well so there's a ton of upside Chris I think that the the next obvious thing would just be yeah what's the team gonna look like do you I mean I'm sure you're trying to figure all this out right now but are you guys planning on expanding a lot through the end of this year it sounds like there's a lot a lot of room to do that there's lots of lots of different things you're thinking about tweaking and changing but what's the next you know rest of this year look like he sounds like you're on a rocket ship so maybe you don't know the all the answers to that yet but for people listening who maybe want to check out aisle when what do you think the next few months looks like how can more people get involved how can people try the app when can people try the app all that kind of fun stuff yeah yeah so when people can try it is you'll probably actually start to see a lot you should start to see a live across Instagram you should just start to see it right like if you ever see a brain that says text us for a free cop or a free can or anything like that right or an in-store QR code that says you scan this and will bend about you $5 right you as the user won't know it's us right but that's that's empowering it right and I think what is the next for what is the rest of your look like right well right now we're on pace to crack a million users on the platform right and should be we have 185 brands in our pipeline right now so should be looking to close out 200 and be at 250 brands by the end of the year right and the biggest thing right again I have no idea what I'm doing right I just want to make sure that no that's listening to know that and but I think one thing I do know is I'm going to be slow on on hiring not for the right person because that's a given right to make sure they're right culture fit but just to be as cash efficient as possible right sure and how I what that criteria looks like is as soon as our quality of work starts slipping okay we we missed the 24 hour brand response time or the amount of feature requests that are coming in right are overloading our development roadmap like we literally I pride ourselves on we pump stuff out so quickly but it's quickly becoming a we're not pumping stuff out quickly enough because the brands are asking for the same core things sure okay thanks yeah hiring is right now CSM right like a brand manager and another engineer and then once those you see to hire or fill then once the business starts screaming and crying again that's what it'll take on another team right but yeah that's some philosophy and kind of methodology right now but we'll see how that changes love it man very cool I were no we're getting low on time so the last few questions I always love to ask everyone that comes on here are coming up next the first one is source of knowledge so whether that's a book you've read recently a podcast just an article what would be a source of knowledge you want to share at the audience they have something that's been impactful that you have you know either read listen to or or seen lately yeah super recently the mescumiddle right the mescumiddle written by Scott Balsky it's a duty sold to hands to do it will be for an absurd amount of money and this goes back to the conversations that we had earlier of like enduring right and everyone likes to talk about the start right like celebrating oh me leaving super coffee and getting money right and then they like to celebrate the end where it's like oh my gosh this is going to be operative word massive there's gonna be a huge payday all of that stuff right sure but it's it's the middle part that that nobody talks about and is ultimately the decider on if you're gonna make it or not right love that it's like where the rubber meets the road honestly and it's like you never it's yeah you know it's like you I think I'll let the beat the book speak for itself but it's just like truly impactful where it's like right now we're in this stage where things are going well right where we have a clear path to certain benchmarks to raise the series a and all that stuff but it's like now it's just about showing up every single day being consistently good right love it oh yeah love that okay well I will link that one in the show notes that's a that's a bad ass one it's one you told me the last time we chatted so it's on my list to read now the the last question it will get to one more but the the second to last question I guess is you kind of hit it on the beginning but what do you use to get shit done whether it's pen and paper your whiteboard an app what do you kind of use to map out all the things you need to get done and prioritize the important shit and just at the end of the day get as many things down as you can yeah yeah um start that pen paper then it just quickly is now gone to iPad the whiteboard is specifically for origins but now I found that I when I get anxious I do I do like the little tiny work right that that really doesn't move the needle I'll do I'll check our margin for the month I'll do revenue forecasting even though it hasn't changed much right sure I'll do all these little tiny things so what I do right besides from like how I write stuff down is whatever screaming at me the most often right it is if if I get the repeated thing of like Tim and can you please do this and all brands are asked for the same thing can you find up this flow or XYZ right um ultimately I let the universe is such a crazy one no I get that that makes sense you know it's like you have your one guiding star that you do throughout the one meet you have that one thing that you're focused on but all to make it that one I get one part of that down early in the day beginning mock it out and then I literally just uh proactively react yeah oxymoron no it makes sense yeah yeah love it Chris hey man that that's that's what you got to do I agree there's a lot of things moving so you got to pick and choose um I know we're right at the end now so last but most importantly how can people follow along with you and keep an eye on aisle and find out more about it and just so you know I'll add all these links to the show notes but just for people listening let's go number one my LinkedIn it's like really post crazy stuff I'm just tipping with the peace on my first name Chris but I'm gonna grow up in my mom call me that and then if you want to check out our website it is www.go2IL.com that is www.go2IL.com love it and I will post all that Chris I guess I should call you Tiffin now because now I know you so I'm gonna call you Tiffin um thank you for taking the time man really appreciate it I will obviously be keeping a close eye on all of this as you continue to expand and I'm pumped for you man it's an awesome product and it's it pleasure having you on the show man thanks for taking the time I appreciate your questions you nailed them yeah I'm thinking about now I'm gonna go think about my childhood at the end of the day great hopefully not too much hopefully you're still focused on aisle but I love it man I appreciate it you