EP#19- Dating in College: Situationships, Relationships, and Everything in Between with Lindsey Metselaar, Founder of We Met at Acme

(gentle music) The people that you attract when you haven't worked on yourself are actually not someone that you wanna be with long-term. It's only once you've put in the work and you are like, I don't wanna say a complete version of yourself 'cause we should always be working on ourselves, but you are a version of yourself that you would even wanna date is when you find like the right match for you. Welcome back to my second episode in the Dating and Relationship series for this month of everyday endorphins. That was Lindsay Mezzler, the founder and host of We Met It Acme, which is a podcast that discusses Millennial Dating in New York City. If you're looking for some great dating advice, I check out some of her videos on TikTok as well. That's actually how I was first introduced to Lindsay and We Met It Acme, and it's what brought us here today. In this episode, Lindsay and I talked about Dating Culture and College, how it's changed over the past decade, the rise of situations, which I'm sure many of my listeners are familiar with, and if you're not, you will learn a bit more about it today. And normalizing therapy for Gen Z and Millennials. Before we get into the interview, I have a brief message for my sponsor, anchor. (gentle music) - Hi, Lindsay, thank you so much for coming onto Everyday Endorphins. Thank you so much for having me, Stella, this is great. - I mean, we're about like almost a year now into the pandemic, and pandemic dating has been kind of challenging. And I mean, I guess dating in college is also so different now than it was maybe when you were in college, but right now I think especially is an interesting time to talk about how dating has transformed and how it's related to mental health struggles and how our mental health is very intrinsically related to our dating life. - Yeah, there's so much there. I feel like it's a whole new world from what I'm hearing now from my cousins who are in college versus what was going on by myself was in college. - Yeah, I'd love to talk a little bit more about that. So maybe from your own personal experience, how do you think dating has shifted from when you were an undergraduate student versus what my generation is experiencing in dating culture and college? I think like situationships definitely. - Definitely, yeah, definitely. I feel like everything is a situation ship right now, whereas when I was in college, everyone had a girlfriend, had a boyfriend, you know, it was more serious. And now it's more like, you know, leaving things undefined and whoever cares less is the winner and like, you know, just a totally different mindset than it was. - Yeah, especially that idea of like whoever cares less is the winner, I feel like that's kind of like a toxic mindset to look at situationships or these ambiguous, not defined or loosely defined relationships that are happening because at least from what I've experienced or what my peers have shared with me, that kind of thinking can really lead to really toxic cyclical thought patterns, just kind of feeling confused over the relationship or what's happening. So like, why do you think that's occurring right now? - I think that's happening really because there are so many different channels and ways to meet people now. Like when we were, when I was in college, they're, believe it or not, there was an Instagram. And so you weren't seeing a highlight reel and comparing yourself to other people and thinking like, oh, you know, I'm not gonna date this person 'cause I'm DMing with this other person. Like that wasn't a thing. Snapchat was barely a thing and like Facebook is not really one of those apps where you can kind of like see what else is out there as much as, you know, Snapchat and Instagram. And so I feel like people were more focused on what was in front of them and actually enjoying that and like really having a real connection with that person. And now people take that more for granted because they're like, oh, well, you're cute, but like there's this TikTok star who like maybe I can get with. And it's just like, no one is appreciating what's actually there for them. - Yeah, I mean, especially the rise of social media, it's now there's like a whole different type of flirting that I feel like happens. Like the way you DM someone on Instagram or if you have an ongoing communication on Snapchat, like all of these, I feel like there's just so much now that's been added into the picture that makes dating even harder and more complicated than it has to be. - Exactly, even just stories and replying to people's stories is now a method of communication, whereas before like, if you wanted to flirt with someone, you'd have to go out of your way to actually text that person. - Exactly. I find it less common for more traditional methods of dating to even happen because a lot of these initial types of communications occur over social media. And I feel like there's all of these cryptic messages. Like there have been countless times where my friends and I will be like, well, how do I respond to this text? Or is this too much, is this too little? Like how do I show interest? And I feel like going back to your earlier point about like who can care less as being the winner. That kind of breeds this really unhealthy mindset and it just adds to the stress and frustration over something that should be in theory a bit more simple. - Exactly, and it's just, it's odd. Like I'll try to give my cousin to our in college dating advice and it doesn't translate the way that I'll give friends who are my age, you know, I'm 30 dating advice 'cause they'll be like, I can't say that. Like are you kidding? Did you know how I'll look at my say that? And I'm like, what do you mean? So it's just totally different now. - Yeah, exactly. I mean, what was some advice that you'd given like your cousins in college, if they've come to you in the past with some sort of like ambiguous situation, like what would your advice be to proceed in some sort of situation that's confusing and stressful to manage? - Yeah, well my cousin who is, I guess she's a sophomore in college, she was seeing this guy for a while but then she would find out that he was hooking up with other girls and she would get really upset and I would be like, just don't talk to him. And she'd be like, no, no, no, I just have to hook up with guys like and keep talking to him but like I have to do what he's doing and not just like cut it off. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like I feel like this guy sucks and you should just not talk to him anymore. And she was like, no, no, no, like trust me, it's college, like it's different. And you know, fast forward to a year later, now he's her boyfriend. - Oh my god. - So she, I guess played it right and I was like, you should just stop talking to him. - You know, I'm laughing because I feel like that's a story I hear too often and it can be split. The outcome can either be the people end up being in a relationship or that was a thing that kind of fizzled and the other person just wasn't actually that interested and it just kind of led to nothing. So I mean, you also bring up kind of indirectly like the talking phase, which I feel like now is so different in my college experience than maybe it was when you were an undergraduate student. And I think there also, there comes a lot of stress with like engaging in the talking phase because with situationships, it's not like you're necessarily in an exclusive relationship. And then if you're, you've made it to the exclusive stage, it's not yet quite being boyfriend, girlfriend if you're in like a heteronormative relationship. So it seems like very loosely defined, but these labels still make it really ambiguous and confusing as to like how to proceed because a lot of these relationships that are more defined as situationships kind of mirror what an actual relationship looks like. - Yeah, it's really, that's why it's such like a fine line 'cause you don't know. And that's why I say all the time people will be like, oh, should I ask what are we? And I always say that's the worst advice. Like my generation, your generation, any generation, I think that's really like a bad move to kind of corner someone and say, what are we? Because if everything's going well and you're happy and you're getting what you want out of it, I really think that it'll go in that direction. It's not, it doesn't always happen that way, but it's really the kind of thing where you need to like follow your gut. But it can be hard when your situation ship really seems like a relationship and then like it's like that meme where it's like, I know I introduced you to my family, I know I told you I love you, but like you're not my girlfriend so I don't know why you think that. - Exactly and there's also like, there's a ton of humor about this like on TikTok and other social media platforms where people will make fun of like, oh, I've told you all my deepest darkest secrets and you know so much about my family but I just, and I really like you. but I don't want to be in a relationship, but let's just keep doing what we're doing. And emotionally, that emotional attachment is there, but there's this lack of desire to actually be in a relationship. So do you have any advice for people who maybe feel like they're in this ambiguous situation where they can't really understand if it's actually a relationship or if they're being played, because that's, I feel like, another colloquial term, like to be played or to be let on by someone? I think that even though things differ from generation to generation, the one thing that you can always count on is your gut. And if your gut tells you that this person is not treating you right, is not going to respect you enough to give you a title and whatnot, then you need to move on. I always say, you're confused, then they're not interested, or if they're hot and cold, they're not interested. So for me, even if I were 20 and dating, there's only so much I can put myself through before I'm like, "Okay, I'm better than waiting for an answer from you, and I just need to move on." And then if they're really the person for you, they're going to go after you, because they're going to miss your presence and miss you around and know that they made him a mistake. That is good advice. It is really hard to trust your instinct and your gut intuition, because even though you might know, "Oh, this person isn't necessarily the right person for me. I feel confused all the time. I should probably move on." That's so much easier said than done. So do you have any advice or tips for people who are struggling to get over someone that they feel like they've been let on by or have felt disappointed in, and their expectations have been completely diverted? Well, I would say there's a lot in there. Firstly, therapy, which I feel like we need to talk about in a whole longer situation, but therapy is a great option. I also think you shouldn't have expectations to begin with. Expectations lead to disappointment. So go into something just expecting to make a new friend and have fun and get to know somebody, but don't expect anything from anyone right away, especially as a Gen Z or dating. And then I would also say, as the last one, ask yourself why you want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with you. And that's really tough because that can last until your late 20s, but it is really something to ask yourself because you should be turned off by someone who is not trying to make it work with you. Yeah, no, that's a great piece of advice. And I think it's so easy, especially in the period of time that people are in college, or in a very transformative period of one's life to ruminate over certain scenarios that meant a lot to them, or, and you know, also probably because they were the expectations that were there, and they weren't met. And I think that's probably what leads to it being harder to just let go and move on from someone that isn't serving you well at that moment in your life. Yeah, exactly. And I'm really glad that you brought up therapy because I wanted to segue into that part of our discussion today and normalizing therapy for gensiers and millennials about relationships because that is a big source of stress and anxiety for a lot of people, not knowing where something is going or having a lack of self-confidence in their dating life. So do you have any advice for those who are kind of struggling in their dating life and how they can open up to the idea of pursuing options such as therapy or other avenues to relieve that stress and anxiety they're experiencing? Yeah, I think that therapy is a great idea. Like not just for dating, but for gaining self-awareness, which so many people think they have, but they actually don't. And you can see and recognize the patterns that maybe you're exhibiting when you're dating and actually make changes to those. And you can also really get confidence from therapy and from that self-awareness. I also think that you want to feel like you're best self. So if you're not feeling confident because you just don't feel good about yourself, maybe it's physically, maybe it's mentally, then you need to exercise that your brain or exercise your body or do things to make yourself feel just like great and on your own so that you're kind of exuding the energy that like, I'm awesome, I'm amazing. And then that in turn is going to like attract more people to you. Do you think that kind of is tied into the whole concept around manifestation? And I've seen a lot of different videos on TikTok about manifestation in relationship to dating and seeking out love and romantic attraction. Would you say that putting in more work for yourself and turning inwards to build self-conference and just be the best version of who you can be will actually emit energy that will attract like-minded people when you least expect it? Yeah, I mean, it's like the law of attraction. I really think that the people that you attract when you haven't worked on yourself are actually not someone that you want to be with long-term. It's only once you've put in the work and you are like, I don't want to say a complete version of yourself because we should always be working on ourselves, but you are a version of yourself that you would even want to date is when you find like the right match for you. I think a lot of that also has to do with like self-compassion and gratitude. So let's say maybe you don't feel necessarily inclined to go to a therapist or seek more traditional methods of therapy, but I would even maybe say like doing gratitude journaling or practicing some like self-compassion meditation might also be another way to work on yourself or it do like some personal work and personal improvement. Yeah, the gratitude journal idea is so amazing just to like realize what you feel grateful for every day and like how much you have is just such a good exercise. Definitely, I mean, especially in times like these where it's very easy to focus on all the negative events that are occurring in the world at the moment, right, actively channel more positive energy and focus your attention on things that are better and more uplifting. I think that does wonders for your own mental health and if you're able to kind of like have this better mindset, things I believe fall into place a bit more easily. I agree. I also, you know, I want to talk a little bit about that transition from dating in college, how it is now to what it might look like once you graduate and if there's anything that is similar between the experience of dating in college and post-grad or certain things that are like wildly different. Yeah, I would say dating in college, you are more likely to have situations. You actually, it's funny when I dated in college, it was almost like those relationships got more serious faster because you're with that person all the time and you basically move in together because you live to say a building or the same block. But relationships post, oh and also like sex will happen faster in college relationships because college is just like a sex culture, which is great. But then once you graduate, it almost like restarts and you have to kind of like make someone work for it in a way, not in the way that's like, oh, you need to earn sex, but more so in a way that like you want to build up of it again. And like you want to, like you know everyone in college, you're in class together, you know, you, everyone knows everyone. But in the real world, like, your meeting strangers again. And so you can't treat them as your college buddies, like they're not, you don't know anything about them. And you really have to go on dates and like more or less interview these people to get to know them. And then you can sleep with them. And then you could decide if you want to date them. But you kind of have to like restart in a way. Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned that because I recently watched one of your videos about like four things not to do on a first date. And one of them was to not have sex with someone on the first date. Is it because of the reason that you just described like you don't totally. You don't know them at all. You, you know, it's one thing if you did know each other. Maybe you were in the same college together, but you never talked or you have a friend in common. That's totally different. And you want to talk to them. Go ahead. But to meet a stranger on a dating app and sleep with them that first night, not only is it dangerous, but it's also not like it gives them no motivation to try to get to know you better because they kind of like know everything about you now. Yeah, exactly. It's and I agree with the point like it adds that sense of build up because maybe you're leaving that person with wanting a little bit more and maybe you on the second date you have sex or the third date. And if they actually really like you and want to pursue a relationship with you, then obviously that communication will continue even after the time that you've sex. What would you say are some other pieces of advice or things to kind of be on the lookout for when dating in I guess the real world after you graduate college. What does dating culture look like if it's not necessarily these ambiguous? loosely defined situations that occur often in college. - I think it looks really like whatever you wanted to look like. You can still have friends with benefits after college. You can have hook up buddies, but you can also have a real relationship. And so again, going back to Manifesting, if you want a real relationship, you should create a real space for yourself, get your own apartment, get a job. Like, if you can, I know it's hard, but Manifest, like an adult life, and then you'll be open to a relationship. Maybe it means you need to date a little bit older, someone who's been in the real world for a little bit. But you have to look in the right places. For example, maybe hinge over Tinder. - What are your thoughts on dating apps? 'Cause I've heard so many different opinions about them, and success stories, and not very successful stories. But I guess now it's one of the most convenient ways to meet people, since you can't actually go out and meet people due to COVID. But I'm just curious to hear what your thoughts are on dating apps. - I have like only positive thoughts on dating apps. I feel like they're so great. I mean, everyone has their phone on their hands at all times. There's no reason not to use a dating app. It's just like an extra added help to meet someone that you maybe might have met if we weren't in a global pandemic. - Yeah, that's a good point. I feel similarly, but there's sometimes or I feel really discouraged, and I feel like it's just this gamified app where I'm swiping, and it feels like this very transactional experience. Like the only reason I'm swiping on this person is to maybe go on a date with them. And it doesn't feel as like spontaneous and organic as other interactions that I've had were like. And I think that for me personally, makes it a bit harder to like buy into the whole dating app agenda. So like what would you say to people who kind of are experiencing something similar to how I feel about like hinge and tinder and bumble and all the other apps out there? - I think that when you use these apps and you find someone that you actually like and you want to date, if you feel uncomfortable about the way that you met or the idea of dating apps in general, you can come up with a story together and nobody has to know. And I think a lot of people are in bored with that. And I know tons of people who even got married from dating apps and did not mention one set they're wedding that they met on an app. - Wow, so I guess like those were some pretty successful stories of the ended up getting married after me. - Yeah, very. - Well, I guess also when you graduate and you're in let's say a city like New York or you're in California or Chicago or wherever you are, there's like you're right out of college and people are just excited to meet new people. So maybe there's just like a larger playing field than a college campus or like if you went to a smaller school too. - Exactly. - Yeah. I think in college it's a period of four years where you know that there's going to be a lot of change occurring. You've just graduated high school and you're going to school to study something completely different and then you're going to get a job. And our life is I guess moments of just transformative experiences. And in college I think dating, unless you like had a boyfriend or girlfriend in high school, you're kind of new to the dating world and people are really learning more about themselves and discovering more about who they are and becoming a bit more self-aware, which I think happens a bit faster with girls than maybe guys. Just like biologically, honestly, like girls I think mature more fast or quicker than guys do. And I think that's also what makes it a bit challenging at least like for heteronormative relationships. If a girl's more mature than the other person, the relationship that might make it harder to be like on the same level and I think communication also is a huge part in having a successful relationship as well. - Totally, 100% agree. - Yeah, and like, I mean, I think with communication also comes just this ability to be more self-aware and to be more mature and kind of know exactly what you want. And I think as we mentioned earlier, social media makes communicating so much harder and it's a different landscape as well. - Yeah, it really is. It's hard out there. - Yeah, but I mean, I guess this is hopeful that we can rely on dating apps. Like they aren't, they can actually be really helpful and really fun. - So helpful. I mean, also like if you're traveling or if you're back home with your parents, like you could change your location and you can meet someone nearby, which is great. - Exactly, yeah. I know with Hens, you can set your location to like anywhere. So it's kind of fun to see like what's out there. If you play around with the app. - Oh, yeah. - But yeah, I think, you know, some, a main takeaway from this is really the importance of developing self-awareness and really understanding like what you, what you want out of relationship and what works for you. And I think with that, it's important to like date around and not really have any expectations because as you mentioned earlier, if you have expectations, they, you might just be disappointed in the end. - Exactly. Yep, expectations are the beef of joy. - If there was one thing you could tell yourself 10 years ago about dating relationships, what would it be? - I said this earlier in the episode, but I really, really stand by it, which is just that if you're confused, they're not interested. - Okay, well, that's a great piece of advice because I think so many people that I've spoken with about their respective relationship issues and whatnot, it's always centered around confusion. So we're just kind of letting that go and moving on if someone's not serving you. - Exactly. - Before we wrap up the episode, I have one question that I ask everyone on the podcast. What is something that brings you endorphins? - So I'm sure a million people have said this before, but exercise gives you endorphins and endorphins make you happy and happy people just don't kill their husbands. - Lovely, Glee Bond. - That was great. - That was great, but yeah, exercise. I mean, I think outdoor voices, they're like a whole thing is about exercise, bringing you endorphins and it's true. - Totally. - And exercise also means sex. So, just a note. - Exactly, exactly. Is there like a kind of exercise that you prefer the most? - I love Pilates. - Yeah, Pilates is great. Pilates great and yoga too, I love yoga. - Totally, really fast. - Well, thank you again so much. Where my listeners find your social media platforms. - My personal is @LionDZ, METZ, LinsMets, and my podcast is We Met @Acme. And that's the name of the Instagram. So check it out. And thank you so much for having me, Salah. - Thanks. (upbeat music) - Thank you for listening. If you liked what you heard, please follow rate review everyday endorphins on whichever listening platform that you use to stream my episodes. Thanks again, and I'll see you next time. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]