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Speaker 5Hi Jeremy. Thank you for coming on to Everyday Endorphins, for being here. It's so fun to get to do this in person.
Speaker 6Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this.
Speaker 5Yeah, and we discovered before this recording that we're both like kind of, well, I'm kind of Persian, you're half Persian. I'm half Persian. So I feel like there's a, there's a cultural connection.
Speaker 6Exactly. Well, you know, Greek isn't too far off. We both share Dolma.
Speaker 5Exactly, exactly. No, the Greek, it's not that, it's not that far off. But I do think the commonality between the Persians and the Greeks, or just like any culture, I think, is important. The background is this emphasis on community and keeping community central, which is exactly what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 6Absolutely, absolutely, for sure.
Speaker 5But to deviate from the Persian and Greek thing, we first met at an event at Impact Kitchen with Running Man.
Speaker 6And Outsiders. And Outsiders, yes. And that's where I first learned about Outsiders.
Speaker 5And I'm surprised that that was the first time that I had learned about your brand.
Speaker 6You know, that's frustrating here, not because I'm happy you found out clearly, but it's frustrating because we do everything we feel like we can do to get the word out there to people who would benefit from this. And there's people that tell me, "I wish I would have found out sooner." And I also think I wish they found out sooner as well.
Speaker 5Yeah, well, it's never too late, right?
Speaker 6I mean, you know about us now.
Speaker 5Now I do. And what was so interesting was that I was in a restaurant. And I was in a restaurant. when I started talking to you was learning about how there are spaces in New York for doing cool things that are not revolved around nightlife and drinking. And to learn your story more in our brief conversation was even more fascinating to me, given that your whole background started in nightlife. So let's start there. Tell us more about yourself and your like nine lives, because you've lived so many lives.
Speaker 6I think she's calling me old, but it's okay. I'll tell you my story. So clearly I started with nightlife. When I was in college, I was studying to be a physiotherapist originally. And so then I was also a personal trainer because I felt like it was relevant. And then I entered a physical therapy clinic and I absolutely hated it. I was trying to think about what I was going to do and I had no idea. And I had a personal training client that was in PR. She said, I think you'd be good. What do you do? You like to buy physical therapy? I said, well, I like dealing with people. She said, I think you like PR. So I looked into it. I decided to go into communications major. So I was a journalism focus, which was my PR focus, which if I could go back, I mean, I don't think I would have chosen that. Probably chosen like entrepreneurship, but.
Speaker 5But don't you learn entrepreneurship as you do it?
Speaker 6For sure. For sure. So, um, I don't necessarily really read it. It's back to story. So what I was, uh, when I was, you know, 21, even before that, I really loved going out. I was in clubs all the time, dancing, you know, hanging out with friends, big music fan. So it was also a great thing because I got to hang out with my friends. We got together. We went out and had a good time. You know, my friends got to know that I was always out when I was 21. I was out every night.
Speaker 5How did you have the energy?
Speaker 6I have a lot of energy.
Speaker 5You still do. I have for
Speaker 6sure. I mean, I think I'm an athlete. I'm always moving. I think it's a combination of always having a lot of energy. Maybe some of it is like nervous energy. I need to shake off.
Speaker 5You need to
Speaker 6do yoga. Yoga is terrible for my back one, but I played basketball. I, you know, I do all kinds of stuff. So I do have a lot of energy. Um, so I remember, uh, a friend of mine who was a promoter, which I didn't really know what that was at the time called my house. Cause my brother was making his flyers. My brother was busy doing something. This was before cell phones. So I picked up a house home. It's like, I forgot what was it? 2002 before I had a cell phone, at least. So, uh, he's like, how are you? I told him I had just thrown myself a little birthday party through a promoter for the first time ever. And he's like, how'd it turn out? I was like, we did like 40 people. I invited 80. So I'm pissed. He's like, are you kidding me? I'm like, isn't that suck? He's like, no, that's amazing. It's the reason I'm calling your brother is to make a flyer for a new party. I'm starting. Do you want to promote it with me? I'm like, what does that mean? So he told me the breakdown back then, like people pay where he was doing the party, like five bucks. I kept three, he kept two. I'm like, sure, I'll do that. So the first time I did it, I think I had more people than any other promoters and I had a blast and I was hooked because I started getting paid to bring, to hang out with friends, you know, and go out. So I did that for a summer and then went back to college. And, uh, my friend of the year of school and I was still personal training, but I played basketball in college. So I had a staff meeting for the gym. The same time I had a game, it was clear I went to the game, you know, and they fired me. So I was already making only like 150 bucks every two weeks, 200 bucks. I was broke, a broke college kid. So I was like, what am I going to do? How am I going to get to school? How am I going to pay for books? Like, let me try this promoting thing. I liked it a lot. Let me call a few venues. So I called a few venues called the one venue and they were like, yeah, we'll do it. I'm like, listen, I'll pay $5. I have people. If I pay five at the door, I'll run my own cashier. I don't know if anyone's going to show up. I'm assuming 50 will show up by midnight. 150 people had shown up. I made seven times in one night than I would have for a month personal training. So I did one party a month for the rest of my senior semester.
Speaker 5You were bringing in the money, but
Speaker 6not a whole ton, but enough to like, you know, eat lunch. I couldn't eat lunch before. I was like asking for quarters at the, in my friend, you know, to buy like a bean burrito.
Speaker 5What would you say are the, the qualities that make a successful promoter? Like at that time, what do you think people saw on you that made you a good promoter?
Speaker 6I could tell you as a progressed, but off the bat, I finally had a reason to talk to people, you know, so that I feel like it was okay to reach, to speak to people or have a topic to approach them with. You know, if I was out and I saw a cool person, attractive girl, or somebody, I just thought whose energy I wanted to speak to. Now I had a reason. Now I was like, Hey, what's your name? By the way, I'm not sure if you're doing anything this Friday, but I'm hosting this party. I'd kind of love to see you there if you're, if you're down. So it was like an in now, as opposed to like before it was, if I hadn't have a topic, it was like maybe approaching a girl because I found her attractive or, you know, it was kind of, they didn't have a talking point. So I finally had a talking point for me, but the fact that I was okay with going up to somebody and I wasn't necessarily, wasn't coming up with creep energy. Right. I wasn't just going to hit on them. I wasn't coming up with a one-liner. It was really just like, Hey, who are you? The fascination of the person's story. And I'm like, I like people's stories. Kind of like why you run yours. I'm sure to go back. So I started throwing a party once a month. And then when I graduated college, I couldn't find a job. I was getting these, I was looking for marketing jobs and these jobs I was finding were like door-to-door office supply sales. And I was like, this is not for me. I didn't go to college to sell office equipment or stuff door-to-door. So I started doing a party once a month. I started a weekly party, which I was making like, you know, 50 to a hundred bucks a week. Then I'd throw one big college party once a month, maybe make 400 bucks. I wasn't making a lot of money. But I saved up enough. And I got an internship at Crowbar, which is this massive club where I started meeting a lot of people. Like, I mean, every day someone knew a walk in the door, whether it be a notable nightlife person, notable music person, a celebrity. So because I guess my personality and I was doing parties on the side, people took a liking to me. I have no idea. So I started like hosting parties there when they're doing like this big hip hop party on Thursdays. And they paired me up with like guru from gangstar Tyson Beck for a different celebrity to sit with them and start hosting parties, you know, at this place. So I remember the main promoter of this guy was a legend. Shout out to Bill Spector. He's doing parties in New York and Miami. He knew everybody, every celebrity. So one night there, he takes me under his wing and introduced me to every massive DJ, every celebrity. I mean, Naomi Campbell, all these people are there. So I'm trying to meet these people through his parties and doing the own parties myself. My saved up enough money to travel Europe for a month because that was my goal after college. I didn't have the money. So I did. And then I saved up enough to travel and also try for professional basketball team in Europe. So I tried out and I was already making good money in New York. And the offer wasn't great. But also it was more about seeing if I could make it. you know part of me was like do i take this opportunity but i might regret like not fulfilling the momentum i have in new york uh there's gonna be questions whatever decision i made so i decided not to go forward with it and come back and i was like well i can't find a job let me really jump into this promoting thing and i set myself a
Speaker 5goal at that point like you're so young you're in your early 20s there's like so many paths you could have taken like the promoter thing professional basketball try to find the corporate job like there were so many different options presented to you but what i love about your story is that you were like kind of simultaneously trying to make all of them work yeah and like hustling while doing definitely
Speaker 6hustling definitely hustling i mean going out everywhere anywhere any opportunity i got to meet somebody talk to them save their information was great and some of the best advice i ever got was like maybe two years into my promoting career this guy he told he was a big promoter in miami and he started doing parties in new york he said i reminded him of his business partner with like this massive promoters like you have a lot of potential i'm like okay well i feel
Speaker 5like it's really interesting how earlier you were talking about the way in which you approach people to get them to come to your parties because something i've been exploring a lot on tiktok in the context of dating and relationships is like why are men not approaching women and like how do you approach
Speaker 6someone that's that's also that that is more new that's like more of a new issue with social anxieties you don't know how to interact because they're living on digital platform right i mean i heard a stat that was like 80 of men at 20 or 25 years old haven't approached a woman asked about in person
Speaker 5yeah i think it's there's a statistic that scott galley talks a lot about like 45 yeah 45 of young men between the ages of 18 and 25 haven't approached a woman i
Speaker 6thought it was a higher percentage but
Speaker 5yeah but like you know i wouldn't be surprised and that's kind of like a separate narrative which we can get to later but the point i did want to make is that you kind of delineated the difference between how to go up and talk to someone with like a you know coming from a place of curiosity versus i want something from you just come to my party this curiosity for getting to know someone someone is interesting to you you want to ask questions about them and be focused on well who are you and like better understand them i think the curiosity point is so important because when i was younger like growing up in new york the cool thing to do was to go to nightclubs and get like names of promoters if i pulled up on my phone i can show you my contacts promoter anthony promoter this promoter that like i don't know who these people are but it felt like kind of like an elevated status symbol at 16 17 for sure to like have a it was bad but like i wasn't really going since we would go to more house parties but like as i got a little older it's like once in a blue moon maybe we'd go to like phd dream downtown right you know i mean i went to a bat mitzvah at lavo like this is the crazy reality of growing up in new york but i feel like you've in real time kind of shifted my perspective on the nightlife and promoting industry well for me it wasn't
Speaker 6just you're right it's about curiosity but i was also building community that i wanted to build a friends group people who remember before i when i was younger and i had the friends here you grew up with the friends at your disposal per se like you don't necessarily get to choose exactly who you're around but when i finally had a choice i wanted to build like a group of people that i felt connected to or connected to a certain aspect of me because i felt like i never conformed like i wasn't like just the jock because i was big into like music and alternative music i listened to hip-hop i listened to hardcore i was in the middle i listened to dance music i listened to everything i skateboarded too i also i mean such a variety of things i did that i didn't conform to one group i hung out with like the the metal heads but also hang out with the hip-hop heads and the athletes and the artists and so on so for me now i could cultivate a group of like a community that encompassed all of that and my parties did too my parties were like you know a mix of downtown kids the europeans gay straight black white latina it was always a mix and i was always like i was like black white latina it was always a mix and it was important to me because that was what i represented my family's super diverse so i wanted that representation for my community when it came out to nightlife but also with the outdoors for sure and there's more to talk about that as to why i wanted to focus on
Speaker 5that okay so i think the diversity point is really important too because it can feel like nightlife in new york for example like it doesn't
Speaker 6feel very inclusive well yes it stopped being super inclusive when things became smaller with bottle service because before clubs had to be massive be profitable when bottle servers happened then you can have a 25 000 bar and a place to host 200 people because you're charging so each party became a unique niche audience whereas before places like crowbar student 54 limelight all these massive clubs twilo held thousands of people so you couldn't be exclusive because you had to fill the place up
Speaker 5that's so interesting i didn't know that bottle service was more recent of a thing bottle service
Speaker 6i think it was like late 90s
Speaker 5because also if i'm going out that's the problem i don't want to order a bottle i don't want to drink that much
Speaker 6but that's when cultures shifted and that's more in the last i'd say 10 years well yeah
Speaker 5gen z's aren't drinking now i mean
Speaker 6i never was a big drinker even when i was doing parties like people i would drink it like my birthday party maybe new years or maybe halloween something like that so sometimes people would just come to my birthday party because they knew i'd drink then they want to see me for the first time i'm not yeah i never
Speaker 5really like drinking well what's interesting too is just like the way you're describing it nightlife at the time when you got into it feels like the nightlife that i would want to experience not the way that it is right well
Speaker 6what's interesting is the nightlife i experienced before i started getting really into it was bigger clubs and super diverse it's kind of what's happening in brooklyn with these massive clubs with like what was avant-garde and brooklyn mirage because you see that's super diverse yeah but it has to be there's thousands of people that need to fit in there so and then bottle service kind of dying out so now you got to rely on a ticket sale to make money
Speaker 5so let's go back to your path and now you're kind of gaining traction in your career as a promoter when does like that inflection point hit for you when you realize i want to pivot out of nightlife
Speaker 6so more entrepreneurship i already knew that wasn't my long-term goal getting into it but i knew it was a great stepping stone to growing my network and figuring it out figure out what i wanted to do from there so i think in my late 20s early 30s i was really thinking about what is it what would be the next step for a while i thought i might have been producing concerts and working in music because i this is when myspace was around i was the official myspace music concert promoter producer so any after like not right away but once they realized they need to help i faced a friend of mine named eric solar he introduced me to them they were doing free shows and no one was showing up they're doing like t-pain was it a ghostface killer mario sean kingston all these and no and clip the clips and no one was showing up so they hired me and all of a sudden there's lines around the block like i'm like okay this is what i want to do i'm good at this you're the
Speaker 5person to know but i mean
Speaker 6also it wasn't just me it was like i had learned you know for the guy in miami like the best thing to do is organize your contacts so he's like how do you organize your contacts i said through business family personal he's like no be really specific industries cities so now i have i have about 10 000 contacts on my phone and organized within almost a year and a half to 100 categories from cities industries any category that i need to reach out let's say somebody reaches out for a specific need i can look in through the lists i have and source it without having to like guess is
Speaker 5it the way that you write their information in the contact or do
Speaker 6you know there's actually categories how do you
Speaker 5do that in your phone you
Speaker 6can do that i did through gmail and synced in my contacts with a csv file and now my iphone if i go to contacts go go to contacts and it says go back arrow this is all contacts and then group
Speaker 5and you can group it i need to do that well i think that's a really good strategy yeah for people to build relationships like using technology in a productive way also using
Speaker 6it's a tool like your your network you know let's say network is a net worth whatever especially when you're doing things like what we're doing it's super important so now i don't have to like hunt through their name i can look through categories
Speaker 5wow which category do i fall
Speaker 6under i didn't put you in it so i've been less less focused on putting people in the categories unless they're like i wouldn't be able to put people in the categories unless they're like i wouldn't be able to put people in the categories unless they're like i wouldn't be able to put you under no because i don't necessarily i don't necessarily promote to people uh personally anymore yeah because outsiders are brands that's my goal you can just put
Speaker 5me under endorphins
Speaker 6that's the category i mean endorphins is your brand so maybe i was under podcasters or maybe media partners yeah yeah that
Speaker 5could be good well that's really interesting that i'm gonna look into this technique because i think i could benefit from this but i also feel like even in like a corporate setting so many people are averse to this idea of networking like it feels so transactional but when we're building relationships like how do you do that from a place of being genuine and i think these are like little tactics and strategies people can adopt to make it easier for themselves to like connect with other people you kind of know who to go to well
Speaker 6the secret is also don't make it transactional be open to meeting people because you have a genuine curiosity that's what i did and if they have something to offer maybe have something to offer them we have discussion but it doesn't it doesn't start there you know that's the important part people will feel see right through you
Speaker 5yeah people can sense that 100 for sure i mean i feel it
Speaker 6you feel it when people approach you with an ulterior motive yeah so i was doing these live music concerts and i was like let me try my hand at it but what i what i quickly realized is any artist that was a draw any band that was a draw was unaffordable meaning if i sold every single ticket i couldn't pay them and any band that was affordable didn't draw anything so i quickly realized the missing piece was brand partnerships so i started working on my pitch for brand partners i started talking to people who are pitching and also people who receive pitches to refine my my pitches and see what was how people feel what people say is roi i was pitching for years and getting shut down until i refined it and also needed a good product my product was part of these parties for a while and then finally i started getting more creative with the events i produced because i realized my following who i gained through nightlife maybe music wasn't necessarily stuck with just coming to those kind of events they trusted me so i'm like oh i can have fun with this so the first thing i really tried was different was doing a holiday ping pong part competition party with i used to have a partnership with a hip-hop record label in stockholm and they had a lot of swedish representation in new york so we did a collaboration where it was like new york versus sweden and their first year was amazing in the second year we were doing it they were like yo reach out to your people you know like the notable like you know local celebrities and like i don't know they're gonna want to get money like ask can't hurt and every single person i asked had the same response what do you need from me and what time do i need to be there i was like what so we had like stretch armstrong vashti marcus samuelson sway all these like pretty notable people and more than that more than just them coming and playing and i was like wow this is it's cool when you have something that's genuinely fun nostalgic and playful people want to be part of it i'm like huh okay what else can i do so because i'm gonna tell you the story which led me to outsiders before i played basketball and then when i was 30 31 turning 32 i'd been dealing like back problems and all of a sudden it came to a head i needed two back surgeries one back surgery which i didn't that's two and i didn't play basketball for five years i didn't think i ever played basketball again so i started picking up biking again because i love cycling so i started cycling a bunch and then um people would post a story or maybe a post forgot what it was back then so instagram and people like hey let me know i want to ride with you so i was like let me try doing a bike ride it'd be
Speaker 5fun as like an event as an event to a meet up a bike ride
Speaker 6so we did one with this like belgian supplement line and it was okay it was like up and down the west side highway followed up with some pizza it was like it was cool but it
Speaker 5was missing something you were doing like the run clubs before they were even a big thing but it
Speaker 6wasn't quite running but yes right there was a run club like my friends are like the og run club in new york my friends were like helping me with this uh bridge runners they started run club communities so they've been around for you know probably since early 2000 i think so shout out to mike sace and cedric those guys are the founders of uh the bridge runners but there was missing something so maybe a year later i came up with another concept which with the help of a friend of mine it was a bike ride from downtown well actually this started in williamsburg and rode out to rockaway beach oh yeah and i pitched cliff bar this concept and uh will yandel was the guy from the bar and i'd been in communication with him from the time he was in red bull i'd pitched him like eight years before that and i just kept the relationship warm it's cool guy and like awesome touch and then i pitched him this idea and he signed on he said yes and i didn't know why they finally said yes years years later he found out he told me why because i interviewed him on our podcast so then we did this bike ride with cliff bar and it wasn't outsiders it was just my company which was called social entertainment and um a hundred people came out and we wrote and it was so much fun and it was just like for me it was reminiscent of being a kid riding my bmx to the neighborhood with all my friends it was just like being able to play yeah i loved it it was great and some you know i saw how joy brought people we finished off with the beach party at rockaway beach and this girl approached us at the end and she said how often do you guys do things like this i would pay monthly membership be part of a group like that people normally volunteer their money so like hmm there's something there there's something here so i decided i had a partner at a time who after two years bailed out because his business was bankrupt he had a wife who was expecting a baby he needed to find a job she said i don't have the time for this so i took it over from there but before that happened we came up with this idea of like a social club before it was officially a social before it was officially a company it was just the concept right so we did like another bike ride the next year and maybe two events that year and like this is fun and i didn't think it i thought it was like a side project you know you start doing more got some momentum this is by now it's like 2018 and he bails out because he can't do it anymore and all of a sudden like i don't need to like converse with him to approve anything it's like let me just run with what i want to do so i started doing anything that sounded fun i don't want to be a hiking club a cycling club i want to do anything outdoors and fun we did so started getting momentum started doing like monthly events and then um the pandemic hit and we shut down so how did you
Speaker 5keep the brand alive when you literally couldn't leave your house and apartment because you know that covid hits loneliness spikes raw craving community what you've been doing pre-covid becomes even more relevant now post-covid because we're all suffering the detrimental aftermath of what happened being isolated for so long and
Speaker 6mind you i'm also i was still promoting at the time
Speaker 5alongside but i was only
Speaker 6doing once a month i mean there's some trips where it was like a ski trip where i'd finish a party at the public hotel leave go straight to the bus get on the bus at four ski all day oh my god come back and do my saturday night party and go to sleep on sunday so i'd wake up on friday morning and not go to bed on sunday but i sleep on the bus a little bit but
Speaker 5that's you know i couldn't be me could not be me but
Speaker 6i was done but i i was inspired and i was a hustler and i had the entrepreneurial spirit and i knew that the only way i can do it is if i made it happen 100 so we shut down and i live alone so i didn't see a human for three months like it was tough and i got out of there when things kind of started easing up a little bit we started getting outside more we're allowed to be outside now started riding my bike and then um more people started riding their bikes so out of a selfish need i like you know what let's just do a free bike ride for everybody every saturday started with this little birthday bike ride i did for myself my birthday is june 21st so i did oh
Speaker 5it's coming up it
Speaker 6is it is early birthday very much so um this
Speaker 5is my gift to
Speaker 6you it's so kind so i um i did a birthday bike ride i was like you know every saturday let's do a free bike ride for keep the brand alive and really for a personal need right yeah everything has been come out of a personal need i really realized when i have a want to desire a need i'm not that unique where i'm the only one with this need so if i'm feeling something chances are many people are feeling it's a shared human experience right so we started doing free bike ride every saturday end up becoming like this you know fun gathering every week we got to see each other and i rode over 1500 miles that summer wow crazy but then as we approached august i'm like with the shutdown again like what am i gonna do when the weather gets cold a little bit prior to the pandemic these two friends of mine started this uh nordic international film festival massive scandinavian film film festival and i was the one working with their film festival and i was the one working with their film festival and i was the one the one working with their film festival and i was the one working with their handling brand partnerships and venue procurement and promotion so i connected them with a few brands they reached out to me like we want to do a drive-in movie theater festival for this year since it's covered i had put them in touch with volvo so like connect to volvo they're a big brand partner we're gonna have our service come on bikes i'm like cool so get in touch with them again because i had connected them they put me back in contact with them and uh start the conversation so all of a sudden i start pitching this idea and they stopped me like hey we want to stop you we're not going to sponsor the event i'm like okay so what's this conversation about like we want to work with the with outsiders we want to find a way to do activations for volvo we try to do hikes but that's not our wheelhouse we'd rather sponsor you to do it so we're like i could do that so they basically provided us with the budget every month and six fully loaded xc90s to facilitate these outings so we were the only show in town there was nothing else which is why the pandemic we did not we started four years prior to the pandemic yeah yeah during the pandemic because nothing else going on we were selling out these trips we're doing like four days a month every other weekend two days back to back and since we were the only thing happening in the city we blew up and more so than before we had a faster uprising just took the momentum was doing outings from there on out and you know we picked up from doing every other weekend to then volvo kind of when things started opening up officially and there was no no more uh i guess covid restrictions the way they were before we started just work with our own vans and so um we opened up stockholm outsiders and then we opened up chicago then we opened up la and we had partnerships with like the belgian brewery on running north face like a ton of amazing partnerships that you know you told me 10 years before that i'd be working with these brands i'd be i'd have a hard time believing you but i was ecstatic so that's how we got it kind of got momentum and we didn't want to be like i said we want to do everything fun and outdoors and for me it was a way to connect that this person need to not want to have to sit at a bar and eat or drink or consume in order to socialize and i really crave being able to play like i did when i was younger and people as adults don't get to play and play has a different connotation as an adult i mean
Speaker 5it's not to be woo-woo but it's like the inner child thing like the more you age the more we should reconnect to our younger selves
Speaker 6oh for sure i think it's for mental health like think about the components of outsiders mm-hmm outdoors most time in nature but even if not nature outdoors active and social yeah that's going to combat mental health it's going to get you physically happier and we just did an interview with a girl that's on our team named thelmes and the first time she hiked with us was 2018 and she weighed i think she weighed a close like close to 300 pounds or 280 pounds she was big and that first hike one of our team members jamie didn't give up on her he kept on he's like no you can't stop because she got to the top but she was crying and that sparked her fitness transformation now she's a fitness instructor wow she's in great shape she's one of our team members now well i
Speaker 5love how you mentioned outsiders like the building blocks of it are being outside whether or not it's nature being active and moving your body and connecting with people because i think happiness is like not that complicated i mean we can really get philosophical here but to be happy and to feel good we just need to focus on some sort of movement being outside and connecting with other people and to create spaces for that is so rare too and when i think about like myself as well i teach yoga and when i was younger i grew up practicing yoga and when i was in high school i would drag my friends i'd be like let's go to yoga together let's go to a yoga class and no one wanted to come with me like it was rare to find a friend that was down to come do yoga with me but the funniest thing now as an instructor i get paid to do yoga with my friends like so many of my hangouts now with my friends are like oh just come to my class and then we're gonna like get a lunch or coffee after and it's great because i'm getting paid i get to spread my love for the practice with other people but do it with the people i love and spend time there's the biggest
Speaker 6thing in my opinion active outdoors is super important right but the social aspect is the biggest aspect that's my passion behind outsiders people like what's your passion it's the community it's the people it's the socializing i mean my previous career was that it was socialite entertainment like social i remember this i was doing internship at this place called new america agency and this photographer amazing photographer daniel hastings like what do you want to be when you grow up and jokingly i said i just want to be a socialite so when i named my company it was spelled differently s-o-c-i-a-l-i-g-h-t but he ran into him he was like remember when you told me that yeah look at you you kind of made it happen so but what's funny not to quote scott gollyway again but he's encouraging people to drink more not get messed up but drink drink more because then they're more social and because this this epidemic of loneliness is so impactful on your health that having a drink to ease into being like maybe a social lubricant is way more important than abstaining from drinking at all like i'm very fortunate that i don't need alcohol to be social i've never needed that some people do so if you need a glass to ease that social anxiety maybe have that glass or social because that's more important than being alcohol free and lonely
Speaker 5i completely agree i'm also like you where i don't really need to drink to have a good time like i'll go out completely sober and dance and like have a good time yeah but i don't think i could ever fully be sober because i just love the experience of sitting down at a long dinner with friends and like having a bottle of wine together and drinking a really good cocktail like i enjoy drinking a lot i enjoy the act of savoring what i'm drinking and being present in that moment and connecting with the people like it's not about the alcohol it's about the connection for me i can do that
Speaker 6connection with that alcohol listen i not never drank of course i've drank i've there's been many times i got drunk and had good times with my friends and for sure it creates some sort of bond because you lose your inhibition maybe act a little wild you remember that night like oh my god remember that time in miami i'm like yes don't repeat that so so it's a good time but for me i think and also i think i'm allergic to it because i turn red but uh you know i see for those who need it you know maybe in moderation to have that social
Speaker 5experience right well that's why i was saying you know your era of like the nightclub in the 90s let's say
Speaker 6well no it's early 2000s
Speaker 5early 2000s before the bottle service thing happened well
Speaker 6early 2000s i mean i turned 21 in in 2000 okay well
Speaker 5pre when i entered nightlife like it just seems like people were like filling up these clubs like when we were talking about how there was less of an exclusivity because there were these you know there was a capacity and they needed to fill the venue you were going to meet people and talk to people and have a good time and now you're going out but people aren't talking
Speaker 6to each other well now it's so bottle service change it in one way and then a smartphone change it right so bottle service changed in a way because now when you have bottle service you're all facing the table as opposed to open to everybody so that's one way and secondly with people in their phones now they can socialize on their phones and they can socialize on their phones without the these social anxiety so now you're not learning how to interact with somebody in person exactly and then covid really messed that up so there's like
Speaker 5all these things that are compounding on top of one another i talk a lot about how specifically this generation is like socially atrophied like we don't have the skills to approach people and something i talk a lot about too with happiness is we need to kind of induce more discomfort in our lives and like be
Speaker 6okay with that yes so i have i do something uncomfortable every day something out of my comfort zone i try to do something every day something that's hard that's
Speaker 5a good little challenge for yourself something i've also seen and i've also spoken about is this idea of like friction maxing so like create more friction in your life and that's what you're doing your friction maxing didn't put it in like a gen z term right
Speaker 6i mean i guess like uh this is desensitizing yourself to rejection like not always being so sensitive to if you do it a lot you put yourself out there and you get that rejection or that uncomfortable feeling if you do it enough it's not going to be such a big deal to you like well yeah sure it still sucks but you're not as impacted by it
Speaker 5exactly it's exposure therapy and i think the more that you do that you start to realize it's not about you like learning how to not personalize these things well the
Speaker 6other thing is if you really think about it everyone has the same feeling everyone okay my therapist had an exercise for me a couple years ago and she still wants me to do this here and there i am still single so it was to when i see an attractive woman even in the street or an environment that might not be social to approach them and that exercise will make it a lot easier in a social environment to approach somebody just like you have to put yourself out there and what i also realize is people know how uncomfortable how hard it is to to walk up and break the ice right that approach that is tough no matter what generation you're in and one of the things we tell our team members and outsiders is let's be the social lubricators let's break the ice for them let's introduce people but it's it's intimidating but if you realize how intimidating is how much of a risk someone's taking to go up to you you know you appreciate
Speaker 5it more agreed i also think about like you know when i don't know if you've heard this saying before like if you're like scared to kill a bug or something people have said to me like the bug is more scared of you than you are of it and like sometimes i think about that with approaching people or just like making conversation like in a let's say in a platonic situation you're at an event like you go up to an event by yourself and you want to just talk to someone and like make a friend sometimes it is intimidating to go up and just be like hey i'm stella but the first step is just breaking the ice for sure but then in a romantic perspective i've like i mentioned i've been exploring on tiktok a lot around like how are people approaching not approaching blah blah blah and a lot of the unfortunately incels are now my follower community on tiktok but it's been very interesting to see what they comment and what their fears are and like this collective hatred towards women which is like very unfortunate to see collective hatred
Speaker 6towards women from them for men yeah
Speaker 5like the incels specifically it's just like a lot of people who i think have such a low self-esteem and like have internalized rejection and so they just like don't even want to do it but i will say there are a lot of women who mock men who go up and approach like let's say they do it respectfully right like and they're like oh i have a boyfriend like don't talk to me or the friends will be like oh don't talk to my friend
Speaker 6like i personally think that's more projection than anything
Speaker 5else yes yes i think that that type of behavior is is wrong and inappropriate like i don't think women should do that but i've been looking through those comments and a lot of guys are like well you should approach like why don't you just go to a guy and so i took it upon myself to try it out and not that i think that women should approach but i think women should signal more like signal availability and also be open
Speaker 6for sure but i also think if you listen maybe the guy doesn't see you because he's positioned and you see him why not and again i'm also just i wouldn't i for sure maybe a man should make the first move but make it very signal making sure it's okay but i think as an exercise maybe women try not all the time but just to see the how it makes you feel the intimidation of maybe maybe being laughed at or rejected well i
Speaker 5did try and i was like oh my god this is like so stressful right yeah but then i did it and i was like wait it's not as scary as i thought it would be and it goes back to the thing i said earlier with you know they're more afraid of you than you are of it like i genuinely believe with anything in life that you're not if we let fear drive our behavior we're going to create the thing we're most afraid of and so to kind of absolve the fear you have to do the thing that you're afraid of in life
Speaker 6and you have to practice doing that because for me i've gotten used to speaking in front of a lot of people because of outsiders i've done a ton of these and it's and i've done live tv a bunch now remember the first time i was ever was on live tv i was super nervous and what's weird is i kind of knew that i'd be okay because it wasn't like i wasn't telling myself you're not gonna mess up no i told myself like i know what i'm talking about i know what i'm gonna be asked so i have confidence that i've put the 10 000 hours in and almost went into like it was not about experience i it was like my body just went and did it and i was like i almost like subconsciously i just did it and they were like you were great you've never done this before like no but it's almost like uh you're going to this auto automatic mode exactly because you need to put the time and energy into it and you need to time and practice it to do so i
Speaker 5think yeah like action builds confidence not the other way around so you have to just do and get the reps yeah i know on your shirt on the back of your shirt it says nature is the new nightclub yes and that's really kind of the thesis and premise of outsiders but let's talk a little bit more about like the different types of excursions that you do in new york like for people who are tuning in and are based in new york city and they want to go experience like i have a lot of friends from california and they're like well you know new york you don't have nature
Speaker 6well what's funny is that we wanted to bring the we do clearly and pretty close in different landscapes, which sometimes are. more beautiful in certain seasons. I'm not going to say I don't want to compare apples and oranges, but we wanted to bring that to the forefront of culture. Because people who live in New York, they don't come for the outdoors. But New York State is beautiful. Same with New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, all around the area. So I didn't want to be a hiking club. Matter of fact, I didn't really go on hikes for fun until I started Outsiders. People think, oh, it's a hiking club. Like, no, we started with a bike ride. And then we do a variety of things. I didn't want to just do hiking or one activity. I just wanted to make sure I could do things that were fun and anything I wanted to do. So cycling, hiking, climbing, outdoor sculpture grounds, surfing, snow tubing, lazy river float, camping weekends, destination trips, you know, anything. So, for example, I listed all those activities. Those are day trips for the most part. We take people who don't have transportation. We provide transportation in New York, Chicago as well, L.A. on occasion. But we realize it's not necessary in L.A. People have cars. So we'll take people to. Whatever activity is hiking or climbing, whatever, and it's a whole day trip. So imagine picking picking you up around 10 a.m., driving you out, doing this activity, whatever it is, you're meeting people, meeting people who may be joined because their friends don't want to do it, but they do. They don't have anyone to go with. So people all have like this excitement about going out together, doing this thing. They all have a similar want. And then you go do the activity. You meet people because it's easier to meet on a hike. Giving somebody a hand over a rock than it is at a bar because there's the assumption that someone wants something from you to borrow. The sexual advance or so on. But this is like, what's your story? What do you hear? How do you hear about outsiders? There's so many talking points that are it's easy to talk to somebody. And I love when I go on these adventures and get to hear people's stories. Like, matter of fact, I tell my team, I want you to lead so I can go up and down the line and talk to people and hear your story. And then people ask me about mine. They usually ask the same questions.
Speaker 5Are you at every single event?
Speaker 6Absolutely not. I can't. We do like we do. So many. I do go to the ones I can go to, the ones that I enjoy, the ones maybe if a team member has to drop out, I have to fill in their spot. I do try to go as often as I can without burning myself out. I'm also maintaining my own personal life. I work on outsiders every day, all day. Then there's the weekends. I'll go on trips, but I need some weekends for myself.
Speaker 5A hundred percent. It's important to like still have the boundary between the brand that you're building and that you're that you that you're doing and then like your own life. Right. I have. So many amazing events and excursions that you guys host. And I've yet to go on one, but that is on my to do list this summer. And I just think it's like so special to have those communities, especially in New York, where I just think it's so needed to New York's a fast paced city. Like I find myself so cooped up and frustrated and on edge and anxious. And I'm just like, I need to get out. So I think the need is even more potent here as compared to other places.
Speaker 6Yeah, I mean, in New York, for sure. Chicago, too, although those are much smaller markets for us. New York's our main. And L.A., L.A. for different reasons. Every city has different reasons for needing this. L.A. is because it's hard to meet other people because you're in your car. You go in one place to meet someone you know, and it's hard to meet others. Chicago is similarly to New York for the same reason as New York.
Speaker 5Yeah. Well, I love the premise. I love the tagline, Nature Wing, the New Nightclub. And I just feel like it's so aligned with the mission of my podcast and really just how now we're in this collective need for building connection and really. Getting to meet people in an authentic way. So with that being said, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about your philosophy on happiness. So obviously, Everyday Endorphins is about finding things in life that spark joy and better understanding, like, what does it mean to be happy? So I'm going to start with this question. How do you define happiness?
Speaker 6How I define happiness? Something that makes me more present and enjoy my time. So if I'm happy and enjoying. Something fun. I'm more present doing so.
Speaker 5I love that. I've also heard from other folks on the show, like happiness is presence. And when you do think about it from like a Buddhist perspective, because I'm in the middle of reading Dan Harris's book, 10% Happier, and it's so good. But he talks a lot about how our suffering comes from attaching onto things in life. And when you're attaching to things, you're resisting what is and resisting what is you're out of the present because you're thinking about the past and then you're. Anticipating what hasn't happened yet. So the more we're grounded in the here and now in the present moment, like that is that as opposed to what ifs.
Speaker 6Yes, exactly. Yeah. So fun things that make me feel like almost nostalgic. When you're a kid, you're present. You're not thinking about the future. So making me feel. Yes, childlike in a way, but present,
Speaker 5I feel like these excursions as well, like they're a way to get people to be more present, like to curate the. Environment for presence, which I absolutely love. So separate from building outsiders and maybe playing basketball and all the other things that you're doing, the question that I want to land with is something that I ask everyone on the podcast. And it's been fun to kind of like witness and hear what brings people happiness and like what sparks their endorphins. So my last question to you is, what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day?
Speaker 6Every day. I have a philosophy to have something I look forward to every day, whether it be small or big, and then have something big to look forward to, typically a trip, right? So that small thing could be anything like always have something to look forward to. I'm not sure if that answers your question, but that's always have something to look forward to, whether it be lunch with a friend, a show, a phone call, a game, a movie, or whatever it is like something, just something to look forward to. Did I answer your question?
Speaker 5Well, if you were to think about right now. Like, something that you look forward to every single day, what is that small thing that just like immediately brings you joy?
Speaker 6I mean, always hanging out with a friend. That's always gonna make me happy. Yeah. You know, I work alone, I live alone. So working for yourself as an entrepreneur, there's no office, you know, we have people that work for us, but we don't have necessarily an office. So it's like, remote work, remote work, I work out of co-working spaces. So I'm missing that co-working community in a way, and there's people I know in the co-working spaces. It's not like I'm working, it's not like the traditional office environment. So it's important for me to have time with friends, loved ones, and feeling, except that being around people where I don't have to be on, I love that.
Speaker 5The best kind of hangouts are where you're just like, doing nothing with the people you love, like you sit and you just, you don't have to do anything. You can just sit and be.
Speaker 6Yeah, when I don't have to be on, when I can sit back and they're having conversation and I feel included and they don't look to me to, to be the host and I can just follow. I love that. I do. Those are
Speaker 5like the low effort hangouts are like, honestly, the best, but I love that. And it really ties into just everything I know to be true about happiness, which is that it's our relationships that are the foundation to making us feel good in life. So I love that response. And speaking of things to look forward to, some bigger things, I know you have some travels coming up. So I'm sure that those are going to bring you a bunch of endorphins.
Speaker 6For sure. We have a lot for outsiders. So we're doing our turkey trip end of June. I'm not sure if this will air before then. In August, we have our Azores. Yeah. Azores trip. We also have in July, our 10 year anniversary camping weekend. I'm super hyped to box. I'm taking parts of my old nightlife world, bringing it to that. So like our hiking, our sound bath, our meditation, DJs. It's like a lot of, you know, have some games there. Pickleball, corn hole, a lake, kayaking, like, and then bringing in some friends of mine that own food pop-ups. And 7th Street Burger is going to be there. Oh, delicious. So it's my friend, Huancua. I mispronounced. It's a Laotian pop-up restaurant. My friend's going to be doing, she does pop-ups in Bedford. I miss her all the time. So just incorporating different parts of my life together, bringing them together, all the diverse parts of it for this celebratory weekend, which since I'm not in town for my birthday, we'll be celebrating.
Speaker 5You'll be celebrating there. Well, I'm so excited for you. If I was in town at the end of July, I would love to attend.
Speaker 6Early July, but yeah.
Speaker 5Oh, it's early July?
Speaker 6Yeah. July 10th to 12th.
Speaker 5Okay. I will be here.
Speaker 6Well, look at that. I will be here. She's coming. I'm coming.
Speaker 5Although I am going to Greece like two days after. So perhaps I might need lunch. I have last minute errands to run, but those can maybe wait.
Speaker 6Listen, if you need more time, we have a partnership with Blade. You can buy a flight with Blade. It'll take you 45 minutes to the campground. It's a little pricey though.
Speaker 5Okay. Well, that's awesome. I always run past Blade on the West Side Highway. It's like so loud and crazy. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just am so impressed by everything that you've done in your career and are continuing to do. And this has been so much fun. So thank you for being here. Where can my listeners like connect with you and obviously find Outsiders?
Speaker 6So Outsiders on Instagram is joinoutsiders. And pretty much all our social platforms is joinoutsiders. Our website is joinoutsiders.com. We are still called Outsiders, but we think Join Outsiders feels more about our mission. Join us as a community. For myself, it's Jeremiasgari, J-E-R-E-M-Y-A-S-G-A-R-I on Instagram and all my social platforms. And then find me outside.
Speaker 5Find you outside. That's exactly where we'll find you. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much for being here. It was wonderful.
Speaker 6Thank you for having me and letting me share my story. Appreciate it.
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