EP #178: Getting Unstuck When Life Happens with Dr. Rachel Goldman

(upbeat music) - Hi, Dr. Rachel. Thank you so much for being here again, for round two. - Hey, I know. I'm so excited we're doing this again. I remember when we did it first time, I was like, wow, that was so much fun. I really hope we do it again. And here we are. So thank you for having me again. - Yes, and it's like such opportune timing to kind of talk about not only what we discussed the first round, but there's just like this amazing layer to our discussion today centered around the launch of your upcoming book, "When Life Happens." Congratulations, number one. - Thank you. - I know we're recording this before the launch, but like everything that takes right a book, congratulations up until this point. That's a lot. - Oh my gosh, thank you. It is a lot. And one of the things that I often say, and I say this in the book, is that it's so important that you take time to acknowledge and celebrate those wins. So I appreciate you doing that 'cause that's what I do for everybody else. I'm always like, pause, did you really acknowledge that amazing accomplishment? So thank you. - You know, it's also pretty opportune timing to have this conversation at the end of January in 2026, a brand new year. I feel like I have lived nine lives since we last recorded our first podcast episode. And I really feel like I now am living this philosophy, like the statement that you're talking about literally in the title of your book, When Life Happens because life does not stop for anyone. And I feel like life just keeps on happening no matter how I'm feeling or what I'm going through. It is, it's really hard to deal with the change and the uncertainty. And then when we take it one step further, not to make this a political conversation, but looking at the state of the world, life is most certainly happening. And I know we're all in like a very tumultuous time right now. So it is like really good timing to have this conversation. - It's so true. And yes, like life is happening and life happens and it doesn't take a break for any of us. You know, I sometimes joke like if we lived in a bubble, like sure that would work, right? Like if we didn't have the outside world, the media, the other people's opinions and the comparisons and the judgments and just stressors, everyday stressors, it would be a little different. But life is happening and we have to accept that, which is the first thing I think acknowledging and accepting it. And then it's like, okay, now what do I do with that, right? And that's where I really hope that my book can help a lot of people to equip them with the tools that they need in order to be better prepared for as life happens and as well as just kind of like going through their day, the best that they can. I'm curious to hear more about the inspiration behind the book itself, having the background that you do and the career that you hold. I feel like there's so many different angles that you could kind of bring into a book. And I really love the premise of when life happens 'cause it's about kind of building those tools into your toolbox. And I know in our last episode, we talked a lot about the importance of creating that toolbox that you can just draw from whichever strategy you need in the moment to-- - There's a whole chapter on that. - That's a quick view. Yes, yes. So how did you, when you were starting to think about writing this book, how did you think about the angle that you were gonna anchor on and really like what that premise was gonna be because coming from this background in psychology and being a therapist, there's so many routes you could go down. So why is this particular topic? - It's such a good question. And it's why I often get because a lot of my speaking engagements and my academic background and research background is not in general psychology, but is actually in the treatment of obesity or body image and/or body image and distorted eating. So a lot of people when they heard I was writing a book assumed it was going to be on that. And it was a thought and it still is a thought. I'm not announcing anything. I don't know if there will be a book too yet, but if there would be, it would probably be that. I would say that. But what I will tell you is years ago when I was in grad school, I always thought maybe I would write a book. Now, if you're in grad school for a PhD for psychology like I was, it is pretty normal for everybody to be like, I wanna go into research, I wanna go into academics, I wanna write a book. You kind of have to say those things and everybody's kind of like in the same boat. But I actually was like maybe who knows? And then as I started doing more work in the field in general, although my specialty really was working in obesity clinics and working with just sort of dating behaviors. It really was using CBT all the time, cognitive behavior therapy. And I always joked I live, eat, breathe, CBT and that I truly believe that CBT has some of the best tools that any of us can use to live happier healthier lives. And I was like, you don't need to go to therapy to gain some of these tools and these insights, but I am not saying my book is a replacement for therapy either. And I really just wanted my messages to get across that it could take one small tweak today to start feeling better. And I felt like I wanted that to be on a billboard. And I wanted these tools to be more accessible to people. So yes, I still think there might be that other book in me, but I felt like for my first book, I wanted to get, like I kind of wanted it to be the most useful to the most people. And I felt like this could be that book. I also, even actually before the pandemic, for years now I've been doing corporate wellness and a lot of my, the talks that companies wanted me to talk about was about stress management and resilience. So I kind of already had pieces of this book actually prepared. I had like a five part course of a corporate wellness workshop series that was actually my outline for this book. Wow. So I also kind of, I'm not saying I took the easy way out, but I also kind of was like, I think this book will be kind of simple for me to write. Like it wouldn't take as much brain power. It wouldn't, I wouldn't have to do too much research. Like I'm literally living breathing, eating it and teaching it to all my clients. Like I feel like I do so much psycho education on CBT with my clients, with other people. So, so that's kind of where that whole thought process came and how it came to be. I love that. I mean, who would have thought that doing those outlines for the workshops and building that curriculum would then lead to kind of that skeleton for your first book? It's kind of crazy to think about how different creative endeavors or work projects may transform and show themselves in future opportunities, which is so true. Yeah, I never thought that, but I was, I was going through my outline. I was like, oh my god, I have to go. I recognize this. Yeah. So I like went back and I actually printed the slides and then like was, I mean, I have like a pile somewhere. I was like going through the slides and checking them off as like I put them in the outline, or I would go back and I was like, and then when people asked how I wrote the book kind of so quickly, I was like, I had so much of that content. All righty. It's like kind of repurposing it, giving it a new narrative and new storyline. And I like that you started this your first book with something that is a bit more applicable and like widespread to more people because we can all relate with this feeling of oh my god, life is happening to me, right? Like we can all relate with this feeling of like, oh my god, I feel decision fatigue. And we were talking about this earlier, but I think the most common reason for feeling stuck in life is because we can't make up our minds. And I constantly struggle with this. And I've also through the podcast and through my own learnings around what creates more happiness in our lives. I've come to this understanding that people typically misjudge what they think is going to bring them happiness. Like we don't, we think we know what we want, but we don't and how do you reconcile with that? Because I know a lot of what you talk about too is learning to build that inner trust and that inner safety. But how can we do that when we don't even know what we want? Like it's this weird tension that a lot of people, especially young adults, people in their 20s and 30s, I think struggle with on a daily basis. Yeah, and I can relate to that on a professional level and so much because so many of my clients for years, I mean, when I worked at the hospital and again, I worked in a weight management obesity clinic, I would always hear, "I'll be so much happier when I lose X amount of weight," right? Or now I have clients that are so much happier when I find the partner. I'm so much happier when I have a family. And I'm like, "But really?" Right? And why are we waiting? Right? Like why are we waiting when life is happening? Why are we waiting for this specific thing to happen? To then be like, "What? Am I happy?" Right? Then the bigger question really is what even is happiness? Right? Like because your happiness might be defined and look very different than what my happiness looks like. And actually, it probably should look different because we're different people, right? We have different wants and desires and passions and purposes and all these things. So I think, you know, it's kind of like a New Year's resolution, right? Like the same thing, like this big lofty idea that sounds great on paper. But what we really think about it is that we really want, right? So I think it could be so challenging. And instead, I always like to say, why are we leading? Let's create that happiness now, right? And the first step would be again, what does happiness look like to you? And if we did this together in a session, what I would do is actually I would say, like, okay, when you think of the word happy, what comes to mind, right? And I would be like, don't censor it. Just the first thing that pops into your mind. I don't know if you wanna do it now. - Well, we can do it. - Yeah, let's do it. - What I think you'll copy. I think of inner peace. Okay, so then I would take it a step further. What does inner peace look like to you, or what does that mean to you? - Like, steadiness, steadiness and career, and love and family, and light, like, finance everything, just stable. - Okay, so steadiness and stable. And then I might even take that a step further and be like, okay, be more specific. What does that look like, or what does that feel like? - It feels like being a more adult version of myself, like having things, quote unquote, figured out, having, have, - Like somebody, - No one has to say that's figured out. - I'm an adult, as we both are, I'm a mom with two children, and I don't have a figured out. - Exactly. - And I'm a psychologist, as just as a reminder. (laughs) - Then I think, then I know that, like I can intellectually understand that it's hard. - That's right, I took it. - Yet it's still hard. - Yeah. - Okay, so that steadiness, that stableness, it sounds like in all areas of your life. And feeling like you have it figured out. - Exactly, feeling like, because then in my brain, if I feel like I've figured out, then I feel like a more mature, mature grown version of myself. - Okay, so I'm really putting on this spot now. - Yeah, yeah. - It's good, yeah, yeah. - Okay, yeah. - Now, so what does it feel, what do you think it feels like to have it all figured out? Like, if I had to say to you, like we wanna come up with a yes or no, when would you know that you have it all figured out? How could we measure it? Like, when I do X, it means this. - Unfortunately, the first thing that comes to mind is accomplishment. It's, okay, so now what does that mean? 'Cause again, your accomplishment could look different than mine. - Yeah, it's called this XRS. - I don't know. - I never said how it's like really humbles you. - Yes, but so that's what I would do. That's what I want people to do is take a moment and think about, okay, what does accomplishment mean to me? Right, what would, but again, you want it to be like a yes or no, almost like when we talk about goal setting, we wanna use smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely. The measurable part is at the end of the week, can I say I did it or I did not do it, right? So when, because the problem is in society, we all live in this hustle culture, we all keep trying to do more and more and more and more, and we don't take the time to actually acknowledge and for accomplishments. And when we do accomplish whatever it is, we're onto the next thing already. So I would want you to identify what does it mean for you to be accomplished, right? Like, to be honest, I could do the same thing with me. Like, I don't know. Like, is it that I wrote a book? Is it that I did this? Is it that I did that, right? And I think they're all accomplishments. But if we don't take the time to identify that there are accomplishments, we're never going to feel accomplished. Because we're always as humans, especially type A's, perfectionists, also, we are always striving for more, more, more. So then what's gonna happen is you're gonna be whatever age and be like, I never feeling mature enough, because I never felt like I had it all together, because I never felt accomplished. Yeah, it's like this, it's like there's nothing, there's no satisfaction. And I just wrote a substack about this. And I'd love to hear your perspective, but the premise of the substack was this idea around wherever you go, there you are. A friend told me that once and it literally never left me. And little did I know that's actually a book by John Kabatzen, wherever you go, there you are about meditation, but the premise, so I was confiding in my friend around this decision fatigue and paralysis of, do I, do I move abroad? Do I completely uproot my life and change everything? And of course there's merit and amazing opportunity to having that complete lifestyle shift and change and getting that international experience. There's no wrong choice, but she challenged me to really think about, what does that feeling feel like to you? What does that represent to you to move abroad? And how can you create that here? And if you go wherever you go, there you are. And I think a lot of the times we try to escape our problems by making these bold choices, like I am talking about myself. And then you realize you go through the whole hassle of making that big change because you're like impulsive and you're like, I just got to change something. But then you land and there you still are. And this is something I always come back to. It will never leave me. I love that you share that because the premise of my book is actually that we don't need to make these huge changes or overhaws to feel better, right? And kind of to bring this back to what we said at the beginning, like what you just said, it sounds like it'd be like, the thought would be like, well, I'll be happy here if I lived there. Right? And I love that your friend said you can create that here because I often say I joke about this. But I'm like, I'm on vacation every day in my brain. I create moments. Like I'm like, okay, if I could be, it's like, you know, just snow in New York City, it's freezing out, it's slushy, it's gross. If I could be anywhere right now, I would love to be like in the sun, right? And like, okay, well, I can like, imagine that, right? And I have different exercises throughout the book, like imagery, things like that. But you can create those moments. And our brain is actually quite like the mind-body connection is so powerful that you can actually get the exact same results from a mental health perspective, from imagining that you are somewhere using very, like all of your senses, very vivid imagery, et cetera, then you would, if you were there, right? So I would ask the same thing, kind of like, what is it that you're looking for that might be a broad that you don't have here? And how can you then create it? Right? And just set out, like, so there's, you know, or go, just set out and be like, you know what, I feel like just doing it and being okay with the fact that if you don't find what you're looking for there, you can always come back, right? Absolutely. I mean, as you were sharing that, I really started to feel very emotional because this is something that, you know, has really been weighing on me in the past few months. And I know that if this is something that's affected me so much, a lot of people have probably felt this way. And I think it's very typical of when you're just kind of in adulthood, like now we're hitting this point in our lives and you're mid to late 20s, where a lot of things change. And these big questions come up and it's, to your, we were talking about this earlier, but not necessarily outsourcing opinions to other people. And when it comes to big personal life decisions, how do you trust that in your compass? And I think that is something that causes people to feel really lost and really stuck in life. And I know that this is true because I talk about this with my friends, but I love this perspective that you're offering around thinking about, how do I create this for myself? And it can be really hard to do that because sometimes, you know, our environment doesn't inspire us anymore or we're stuck in the same social circles or, you know, something for me that I realized was difficult, was grieving a life that I once built that no longer aligned with where I currently am. And so for other people who might be feeling similarly, what advice would you have to share around some steps you can take to create the feeling that you want to feel that you think you're gonna find somewhere else, but like how do you create that with where your feet are at right now? Yeah. And again, I'm glad you're bringing this up because a lot of things I talk about in the book is that feeling of stuck and accepting that we are in a different phase of our life, right? There's different phases of life that we all go through. And, you know, a lot of people do grieve. I'd like that they had or have different phases of life or a different chapter of life. You can, you know, language does matter, but think about what resonates with you and then just think about where you are now, right? I mean, I often say it's almost as a joke, but I often say like, well, if I didn't, if my daughter ever hears me say this, I don't know. Sometimes like if I didn't have my little one because I have two young children in the city and like now that my older one is seven, there's just different things we can do, we could do just with him. Like I don't love going out to restaurants with both of them right now, but like if I just had him, like it's fine. But anyway, it's like that it is what it is. Like I have two children, right? But the point is that, you know, we can all think back to a different phases of our life and be like, yeah, if I was still there, or if this didn't happen, but that's not the reality of life right now, right? So we can sit with that feeling and grieve that. That's okay. And then at some point we have to be like, well, this is the reality right now. This is the life. This is where I am right now. It doesn't need to be forever. It could be temporary, right? be going. through another phase, like, "Ladies and gentlemen, "I'm not pariament of pause right now." You know, all this, you know, they're all phases, but we have to accept where we are now in order to then really be true to ourselves. And then I think what we can do and my recommendation would be to take a moment to pause and reflect, to turn inward and think about what really matters to you because there is so much noise, right? Noise from friends, family, media, social media, the stranger on the street, you know, whatever, there is so much noise out there telling us what we quote should be doing because everybody else might be partnered or getting married or having kids, but maybe you don't wanna have a family. That's okay, but there might be this pressure on you because everybody else is doing it. So if we don't take that time to really think about, again, what makes me happy? Like, you know, I think that's the first step. And for something like what you spoke about, I would even wanna know like, what's the why for moving abroad, right? And it doesn't matter what the why is, specifically like it could be something that might seem silly to somebody else, but it doesn't matter as what I'm saying. What matters is what the why is to you, but I would wanna know like why do you want to do this because the why is the motive factor? What's the loose side of the why? We're no longer motivated to do things. So I would wanna dig deeper and be like, okay, what is it about moving abroad that you think is gonna make you happier? What's the why is it that we're running away from something? Is it that we just want new perspective, new environment? You know, like I feel like I lost motivation and inspiration, I would almost be like, tickification, right? Like if you can instead of moving abroad right now, which again, if you wanna move abroad, like I'm totally for that too. But maybe you just need it like a break. Maybe you need a reset, right? Maybe you can get away and just really have the time and the space to turn inward and get away from all that noise and see what it is that you really want, right? Right, exactly. I love that and it's, you know, it doesn't have to be a move abroad you could fill in the blank. A lot of times we make these big life choices because I do think a lot of it comes from fear, like this scarcity mindset. So we have to latch onto the next thing, thinking that it'll fill that void or bring us some sort of joy. But I love this framework that you're offering where it starts with A acceptance and then B, that self-reflection, turning inwards. And then I think like the next part of that equation, which maybe we can talk more about. Yeah. And so that leads me to my next question when it comes to trusting ourselves, something I think a lot about is how do we delineate between anxiety and intuition? Because I think physiologically intuition can make us feel anxious, right? And so there's kind of this blurry line between, my intuition is telling me this versus, this is my anxiety. And I've talked a lot about this also with my community. What would your perspective be on ways to better understand something that is really anxiety versus this is our intuition? Yeah. So I think the pause helps us figure that out, right? If we are being more impulsive, if we think we're acting at a fear, I would say that's the anxiety speaking, right? If it's something that you've been thinking about for a while and or you just got this gut feeling, I would then, for sure, that's a sign, right? Our mind and body are always giving us signals, but we are too fast, pastive a society to be able to identify them. But then I would also say if we go back to the why, right? Why do I want to do this? Why am I thinking about doing this? If it is based out of a fear or a worry or a concern, that is probably anxiety. If it is, I have a feeling this could be really cool. I'm open to possibility. I'm open to opportunity, maybe even a little bit of, I don't know. I don't know, but I just feel like this could be right for me. That has a different feel, right? And that goes to how CBT works, the relationship between our thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. Our thoughts give us a feeling. We have a feeling once we have a thought. How is that thought make you feel? If I said to you right now, still I want you to move across, you know, I want you to move abroad. Let's see media thought or feeling that arises right now. - Stress, honestly. - Yeah, just like. - Okay, so there's a good stress and there's a bad stress. The good stress is motivated. The good stress is like, it might be a lot, but it's also going to be exciting, right? The good stress is what keeps us up a little bit later before we have an exam. We review our notes one more time. That's the good stress, right? So then if we're like, I feel stressed, I would then almost be like, okay, what are you feeling physiologically? - And then tapping more within the body and seeing where that arises. - Yeah, I think, you know, that's a really helpful framework too. And something that I think about as well as the intuition, it's kind of like, you feel it more below, like it's just a hammer. - In your gut. - Yeah. And then the anxiety is like up in the head and it's the heart racing and it's this chaos. - Exactly. - I do think sometimes the anxiety comes, it's like a byproduct from when we're too afraid to listen to our intuition. - Absolutely. I mean, I do agree with that. And I think a lot of people are also on to the next thing, on to the next thing, on to the next thing, because they don't want to sit with that feeling of stoneness or they don't want to sit with the feeling of what's my brain gonna tell me? What are those thoughts that are gonna creep in? Like, like, you're not good enough, you didn't do a good enough job. You know, all of those are just unhelpful thoughts that our brain gives us for survival. Our brain is why are you a certain way for survival? But just as things are learned, we can unlearn and we learn new things. But I think really the key that we're talking about, I think the mean takeaway is just to pause, blow down and ask ourselves why, why do I want to do that? So why am I having this thought to do it? I'll give an example. I don't know, this just popped into my head and maybe 'cause it's book related to. But a colleague reached out to me several months ago and was like, some publisher, some editors reached out to me about writing a book, what do you think? And I remember being like, well, that's something you need to think about for yourself, like you need to turn inward. And they're like, wow, I'm shocked that you didn't just say, yes, you should do it. You're like, you had such a good experience. I said, yes, I did have a good experience. But if it's not something that you want to do and you're not doing it for the right reasons for you, I think you're gonna have a miserable experience. You know, it's the same thing years ago people asked me about getting their PhD. I'm like, if it's something you really love and you're passionate about, it is totally worth it. But if you're doing it because you think you should be doing it or you're doing it because everybody else around who is doing it, I actually don't think you should do it. So this person was very upset at me actually because I didn't give them the answer they wanted. They wanted me to be like, yes, I had a great experience. You should also write a book. And I didn't say that. And I can't say that. Like, I can't say to you, yes, I think, you know, moving abroad, I keep on listening to study and abroad. You know, I can't say moving abroad is the answer. I can't say moving abroad. Then I recommend it. We would need to dig deeper and understand what the why is and what are you hoping to get out of it, right? Is it for the quote, your right reasons? 'Cause there's not a right or wrong reason, but it has to be right for you. - Yes, and I love that you make that distinction because back to the CBT framework too, these decisions that we're making or these choices that are, these opportunities that are presented, there's neither a right or a wrong one. Like, to someone who has always wanted to live in New York, for example, the lifestyle that I've created here is probably so aspirational to someone who doesn't have that, right? It's this idea of like the grass is always greener. And so neither option is either better or worse than the other, but I think it's the stories that we create in our heads and the thoughts that then produce the feeling we associate a good versus bad or right versus wrong. So I also think it's about coming back to this realization that like everything is neutral at the end of the day. And to your point, it's about what is the right choice for you, but the only way to understand what is right for you is to get to the why. And I love that. - Exactly. - And I really love that it's like about coming back to the why because that is something only you can answer. And it's tough 'cause we are bombarded now on like social media specifically with so much advice and so much content. And there's just tons of distractions. And it's really hard to get still and to come inwards, but it's a good reminder that we can live in more alignment in life when we tune out all of the noise and we come back to what's true to ourselves with it. - And it's so important to also remember that it might not be right for you right now. Right? And that's where like the not yet comes in, right? Like maybe moving abroad is in your cards for you at some point, right? But maybe it's not right now, right? And I talked to a lot of my clients about that because again, you know, actually a lot of my clients are probably around your age and you know, kind of like, well, I don't, you know, like my friends are getting married, my friends are getting engaged, my friends are having kids and they're like, I want that. But and I'm like, yeah, and you're focusing on your career right now. And you know, like maybe it's just not right for you right now. And that's okay. You can want it. And you don't need to be like feeling bad that you don't have it yet. Right? So I think that's so important. Savannah, that was even me with my book. During the pandemic, a lot of publishers reached out to me about writing a book. And it wasn't the right time for me. But a lot of my colleagues were writing books. A lot of a lot of kind of book deals were happening around that time. And a lot of my colleagues were writing books. And I kept being like, that's cool. Like that's, you know, like maybe for a moment, I was a little jealous. And I'm like, that's cool. Like, you know, maybe that's in my cards later. But I really had to turn inward and be like, that's not what I want right now. Yeah. And it's not that I said, no, I said not today. Right? I like to leave that door open. You know, like as things come up, you know, different opportunities, maybe it's not going to work for me now. But let's, let's leave that option there, just in case. Right? As we go through life, life happening, as we go through life and different phases of our life, different things are going to take more of a priority. Right? I have two young kids. Like, yes, I did write a book also when I joke, it's my third baby. But, you know, for some, that's, that's okay. Like that wouldn't happen right now. You know, I couldn't have done it when my little one was like, when I was still breastfeeding. Like, that would have been out of the question, right? Like, you have to wait till you are ready to do these things. And just because I wasn't ready then, didn't mean I would never be ready. Right. And I think that comes from this impatience for people who are high achievers and ambitious. Like, we always want the next, next, next. So there's like this lack of patience that we give ourselves to trust that if it's not now, it could be later. You know, how do you reconcile with that? Like how, you know, sometimes desires in life can feel so powerful and so overwhelming. How do we slow down and trust that things are coming in the timeline that they're meant to, whether it be the career move that we want or the location move or the partner or whatever it is, fill in the blank. How do we create intentional change in our life so that we get closer to what we want, but also accept the fact that maybe we're not ready yet for the things that we want. And it's coming in the right timing. And in answering that, I want to also remind people that A, it's not simple and plants don't always go as planned. Life does happen. Right. So just because you're like, I want to move abroad or I want to write a book, maybe it doesn't go exactly the way you had thought it would. And sometimes that means you have to move back or sometimes that means you take a break. So maybe it's taking a step back, right, in order to take maybe three steps forward. In the moment, it feels horrible now. In the moment, your brain is like, you failed. Wow, this is the worst decision of my life. What was I thinking? Right. In the moment, it feels like that. But what we need to do is then examine the evidence. Right. And I think that's where really the trust comes in. It's like, okay, have I believed my gut and trusted my gut in the past? How did it work out for me? Maybe it didn't go so great. You know, I don't want to be super positive and unrealistic. But other times, maybe it did. And we can learn from that. We never are starting over. So I always like to then say, okay, let's learn from that experience. What worked and what didn't work? Maybe that was an impulsive decision and it worked for you. Maybe it was an impulsive decision you made. And it didn't quite work so well. What can we learn from that experience? Right. Maybe that's as silly as it might sound. Maybe that's journaling your thoughts and your feelings. Maybe that's writing down your why and really, really digging deeper with yourself. Right. But at some point, you know what you want. You know, like I also, for me, it's funny. I'm like, David giving lots of personal things here. I don't know. It's silly example, but it could be like a new pair of shoes or a bag that I want. I will buy it right away. I'm like, I don't know. Do I really want to spend the money? I don't know. If I think about it and think about it and think like literally it'll be like a week later. A two weeks later, a month later, I'm still thinking about it. I'm like, all right, it's time. Like, I'm going to buy it. You know, so I think that's a sign too. Like if you're like, I'm not sure I'm going to put it aside and you try to kind of get it out of your brain, but you keep thinking about it. Maybe that's a sign. Right. That's your body, your brain telling you something. Right. Yeah. So I think again, our body and our brain are always giving us signals, but we have to slow down in order to recognize them. And worst case scenario, it doesn't work out. But we don't jump to that means I failed or like the worst thing that ever happened to my life. Oh my gosh. It's just, okay, let's go back to the drawing board. What can I do differently? What can I do now with where I am today? Right. Yeah. And that's okay. Like we all have to accept that life happens. And we can't project the future if we lived in a bubble. I would tell you Stella, move abroad. You know, whatever it is, it like sounds perfect. Yes, do it. It's going to be amazing. But I don't know. I can't tell you that. Right. You have to live it in order to know. And then when you're there, life is going to be happening. Is it going to be what you want or not? We're not going to know until you try. Exactly. And I think that a lot of the times we feel stuck in making big life choices because it to your point itself. Overwhelming. It's overwhelming. And it's not for your failure. And I, I know that Arthur Brooks does this amazing exercise. I think with his students, but he's talked about it on podcasts where he has people write out their failures. And then I forget the exact journal activity that he does have his students run through. But the whole premise is like, write down the failure, write down like what you've learned and like how you can move forward from it. And the idea is to take away the emotional gravity of what we think failure brings us and to kind of normalize it and realize it's actually it's not so bad. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's not so bad. Yeah. So I say this in the book, but I actually don't believe in the word failure because it's all the way that we frame it. So I actually like we all make mistakes. We all make errors. And I almost don't even like the word mistake in a way. Like it's just it didn't work out. Right. So like I'll give an example like whenever I work with clients to set goals and I give them recommendations at the end of a session that I make sure as realistic for them given this week, I also always promise it with this idea that and if you don't do it, it's okay. It just means that life was too challenging this week. It means that life happened. That's okay. So, but if they come back and they're like, oh, they didn't do it. I failed. I'm like, oh, you did not fail. The goal. I actually, I said this to a few clients recently. I was like, if anything, I found it said because I I was I didn't identify that this was maybe two unreal realistic for you this week, right. I'm almost like put it on me instead. Right. It's just that the week was too challenging for maybe I didn't be like, okay, let's look at your week. Do you really think it could work? Like maybe we looked at the weather and we're like, oh, it's going to snow. This or that, whatever. But it's not about being a failure. Like to me, the word failure is putting a label on ourselves, right? We didn't do that. Failure. Right. We do that all the time. And that's what keeps us stuck, though, is those labels, those thoughts, we're labeling ourselves, we're identifying these. They're all unhelpful thoughts that just keep us stuck. And when we're stuck, we tend to spiral. And then we get those things like the paralysis, we freeze. We don't know what to do. And now of us, and we're like, oh, my god, I have to do everything now. Like, let me just move. Right. Like, that thing's working. I'm just going to go, but really it's, okay, what's really happening right now? Right. What do I really want? What do I need? Right now. I think it's such a powerful question. What do I need right now? Yeah, maybe it's just to slow down. Maybe it's a call out sick today. Take a mental health day and turn inward and see what you're really feeling. Yeah. And these are all super actionable strategies we can take. It doesn't require an aura ring or the next bio-backing machine. Like, it's literally as simple as just taking a beat. You know, it's, it's that simple. I'm cracking up because I get these questions all that time, like different media interviews, and they'll always be like, what's your top product? And I'm like, I don't have one. I'm literally like, I am not going to tell you to go buy a product that's going to change your life when really it's about pausing, churning inward, and examining your thoughts. Yeah. Exactly. I'm going to butcher this quote, but I think it was a row who said this. I could be totally wrong, but it was like the unexamined life is not like worth living. It's to that premise. And the idea is like, you, we must be examiners of our own lives and of our own thoughts. But, you know, a follow-on question to this too. And I'm curious to hear your take as a therapist. I was in a conversation with a friend, and he had said to me that he thinks therapy is great, but it's not the answer. And I was like, okay, tell me more. And he was like, well, I don't know how valuable it is to just talk about your problems all the time. And I was like, okay, well, have you ever been therapy? Like, let's take it, let's take a step back for a second. And then I started really thinking about it. And I was like, okay, it's actually super helpful to be in that environment with the patient therapist relationship. Like, it's different than a friendship. Like, you're with a mental health professional to be able to express things that are on your mind. And my own experience, it's like the therapist has actually been the conduit to helping me better understand things. I didn't understand that we're in my brain. But the difference, though, is that you can talk as much as you want, but what actions are you taking? And I think with the CBT, stuff like that that is so so part of it. And so what I do believe is probably like the last step of this whole framework and equation and everything we've been talking about is then acting like it's just taking the action and implementing the wisdom that you start to conjure up in your brain into your life. So what is your advice for then taking that step like taking the aligned action? Yeah. So I have a lot to say about everything you just said because I could really speak to the therapy, Brad, but you said also in like some of the other benefits. But I also want to say that there's another chapter in my book about just like it's called behavioral activation and CBT yarn psychology, which is that we do the behavior sometimes before we even are ready to do it. Right. And I talk about this in the book, but I say that Nike got it right with the just you. Yeah. Like really, I like go into the research. I like didn't even know where that slogan came from and I have it in the block like I did a little research to understand that. But so sometimes we just have to start, right? Like we can think about it so much. Again, our thoughts are going to keep us stuck, but at some point we have to take action. And what I've realized in my practice is that often times when we have a plan and start taking action, it actually decreases the anxiety. So I actually have a client that I've now worked with for so many years, we joke that they don't need to buy my book. I've told all my clients they don't need to buy it, of course. But I was like you like they know they have my what he what they call Dr. Rachel is like written out and they know them. And they are always like, but I know what I need to do. Like I feel so much better now because I took a plan. I took action. Right. So we can think about it and think about it and think about it. I'll just use a simple example of like you have a research paper, Joe. Like maybe three months from now. And we could be thinking about it and thinking about it. And now I'm going to go by the same thing about the book. I could use the same example. But one day I was like, well, like a wait three months to start writing or I just come up with a title. Let me just come up with a topic. Let me just come up with an outline. Right. We start feeling less overwhelmed. We start feeling less anxious because we're actually moving one step closer. Right. This is why big goals don't work and breaking those big goals down into teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny, little actionable steps that you could take today makes us feel less overwhelmed, less anxious. And we feel like we're doing something. Right. But at some point you have to take that action. Right. We can talk about like I'm going to use the words of your friend. I would never say this. But we could talk about your problems all you want and whatever you want to bring to the therapy round. And for some people, that's enough. For some people that truly is therapy, having a sounding board, somebody that doesn't know anybody that you're talking about, there's so much power to that. But at some point, it's like, okay, now what do you want to do with that? Right. For some, again, just getting it off your chest and venting is enough. But for others, it's like, okay, you've been telling me for so long that you're unhappy. And we know why you're unhappy. Maybe we could start thinking of a plan to make a tweak change. The word change is very overwhelming to people. I have this in the book. I actually crossed out the word change like on purpose in the book and put tweak. I was like, yeah. And I was like, we're going to make this mindset shift like this change. I think it's very overwhelming for people. But what's one small tweak you can make today is totally doable. Like if I put you on the spot, and I do this in all my speaking engagements, I'm like, I want you to identify one tweak you can make today and then make it happen. Yeah. So just get out of your head. Just do it. Yeah. Well, a small tweak that I'm trying to make is to put my phone down before I go to bed and actually read a book. That I say this every year, but I'm actually really, I'm really adamant about doing that this year. And I think another small tweak is, well, my word of the year for 2026 is adventure. And so I'm thinking how might I create adventure and spontaneity in the day-to-day mundane. And so I've been thinking a lot about this. And I think you're right. It's about the tiny little tweaks that bring that joy and inspiration rather than the crazy impulsive decisions. So I love that. And I think tweak is easier to digest than change because life is always changing. Things are always changing. And to just go back to an initial point that you sent earlier around acceptance of phases, I think it's hard because life moves so fast all the sudden you wake up and you're like, oh my god, years have passed. Like we don't, like we can't understand this. But if you actually objectively try to think about this, how could life ever look the same when it is now January of 2026? Like it makes sense that your life is not the same as it was in June of 2024. It makes sense. But in the moment, it doesn't make sense. In the moment your brain jumps to what's wrong with me, I'm doing everything I did before by now it's not working. And I'm like, yeah, but yesterday you were a different person because life was different. Exactly. Like literally, but that's the thing. We in the moment are brain jumps to something that's wrong with me because I've been doing this my whole life and now all of a sudden it's not working. But if we stop to think about it, it's not all of a sudden. There's something else going on. Life has happened and now, right. And now it's just not working for you anymore. Does it mean you're a failure? It's no longer like that routine, that program, that whatever is no longer working for me. It could even be a relationship. I mean, I've said, you know, I remember both to clients, friends, even myself, like that relationship is not so in the same purpose anymore. It is no longer working for me the way it was last time or way it was before. And now it's time to do something about it. Yeah, you could stay in it or you can take action. And it's interesting too because at my age, I'm 26 years old. I am now starting to see a lot of friendships and people in my life who have been in these very long term relationships for the past four to six, seven years. And all the sudden, they're like, we're not the same person we were when we were 20. Of course. And so it's, it is mind-blowing to see now at this point in my life, a lot of relationship shifting. And it's to this exact point, you know, things change and the happening life is happening. So that's why I love the title of your book because it is so relatable. I cannot wait for everyone to read this book. And so speaking of the book, when is when is it coming out? Where can people find it? How do they connect with you? All the things, Dr. Rachel. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. And I have to tell you, as many podcasts as I've been recording lately, it still doesn't feel real. That this book is not actually the real book. It's just the cover. But it still feels so weird to me that like we're talking about a book that I wrote and that is going to be in everybody's hands, hopefully soon. So April 7th is the release day. That's when if you buy it at certain places, it'll arrive that day and or be in the store on that day. But it is on pre-order now and I have realized in this process that pre-orders are really important. So if you guys are interested, pre-ordering it now would be amazing. You can find it at whenlifehappensbook.com. You can buy it at any of your favorite places that you like to buy your books. If that's Amazon, Target, Barnes and Noble, Books and Million, Bookshop, anywhere. Also on social media as Dr. Rachel and I see, we'd like to remind people I love connecting and reaching out to people or hearing from people. I share just remember how we first met. And although social media or podcasts are not fair, hey, I love connecting and/or pointing you in the right direction if you are looking for resources and things like that. Amazing. Well, I'll be sure to hyperlink all of that into the show notes so everyone can go and find you and find your book. And I'm in a land with one final question, which you know is the question I ask everyone. And so this would not be a complete interview without asking you, Dr. Rachel, what is something that brings you in Dwarfens? And maybe the answer is different than the last time we record that. So curious. I would be so curious what I said last time. I don't even know. And I forgot that you asked that. So now I'm like, "What am I going to say? I don't, you know what? In the current phase of my life that I'm in right now, it's going to sound crazy, but it's actually doing these types of interviews. Like I did another one yesterday and my husband was like, wow, you're in such a good mood." And I was like, "Yeah, I'm like, and even at the end of the interview, they were like, wow, you're like an energizer bunny. You must have had a lot of coffee today." And I was like, "No, I had two subs. I just, I love talking to other people, connecting and sharing the things that I've learned throughout my life, throughout my practice, throughout my education and research. And I really do believe that we can all make one teeny tweak to make ourselves feel better and live that life that we want to live. So I really, it just makes me so happy. Yeah, I love it. I love it. And when you talk about things that light you up, that is like just radiating joy and endorphins. And that's how I feel doing these podcasts and approaching strangers on the street and asking them questions about happiness. Like all of that dialogue really fills up my cup, which is why I've been doing this podcast for like five plus years now. So I resonate with that feeling so deeply. And it is such a privilege to have you again on the show. Very special. Thank you again so much. Thank you.