EP #164: From Lil Yachty to Don Toliver: Translating Music Into Visual Art with Mihailo Andic

Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness and daily living. I'm your host, Stella Steffanopoulos, and I am so excited to share this week's episode with Mahalo Andic. He is the mastermind and visual genius behind some of the most famous album covers, working with artists like Lil Yachty, Black, Migos, Party Next Door, Don Talver, and more. Mahalo and I met at Cannes Lions earlier this summer and got into such a deep conversation about art, creativity, expression, and I was like, "I just need to interview you on my podcast so we can have an even deeper and longer discussion about this." And that's exactly what we got to talk about. So in this episode Mahalo shares his background, what got him into visual design, and the beauty of the creative process and self-expression. I've never personally thought that much about album covers, but it truly is the first entry point into someone's experience with music. It's what you're seeing. And so we talk a lot about the connection between art and identity and the creative process. In another huge area that we discuss in this episode is really what it takes to shoot your shot. Mahalo used to work in advertising, and basically he shot his shot one day with Lil Yachty and Boom. Now he's designing these album covers, like how admirable and cool is that. I think anyone listening to this podcast can take away some really valuable advice from Mahalo on what it means to put yourself out there, how you define success, how to go after what you want in life, and to be really fearless about it. So I was personally very inspired, and that's why I wanted to speak with him, and it was really an amazing conversation. So I can't wait for you all to listen to this interview, but before we get into it, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Hi, Mahalo. Thank you for coming onto Everyday in Dorfen. Thank you for having me. Excited to be on. So nice to have you here. We were just talking about from can to New York. Yeah, from can to New York. And I don't really do in person that often, but like it really changes the vibe in a good way. Yeah. It's fun. Yeah. It's like great to be sitting across from you, and also crazy to think about the conversation we first had in the South of France versus like what we're going to talk about today. And I feel like when I first met you, that was kind of a sneak preview into what I want to chat with you about, but also I remember just feeling so inspired by your story. Thank you. I appreciate it. Well, I'm an open book today, so I think our convo is going to be really good. Yeah. All right. So let's start there. I know a little bit about your story, but maybe my listeners don't. So let's start with what got you interested in visual design in the arts. Like, where did that interest come from for you? So I think that like goes back to around like 2011. That's like when the first that was like the first time that I had any like interest or engaged any interest in like music and design. So that was like a huge thing back in the day where I would get really excited about new albums and album covers and just like the visuals that were accompanying that like music that was coming out. And I think the earliest memory that like really peaked my interest was like the weekends first mixtape cover because I never saw anything like that for like an album cover, which was really cool. Like that kind of candid photo. Was it the balloon's one? Yeah. With the girl. Yeah. In the bathtub. And I was like, wow, this is like like a very dark party music. So well, and he was really mysterious at the time. So I was really engaged and like interested in who did that, which obviously now I know and I know like, you know, a few members of their team, which they're obviously great. So that was one of them. And then I actually remember the moment that I first heard like the, I think it was high for this. That was the first song that I was going to do. Such a good song. Yeah, it was on the radio. Then I went home and I think it was maybe like a few days later, I stumbled upon like the actual mixtape cover and I was like, wow, what is this? Like how how do you even like get into this like scope of work? Like where do you start? Like who do you contact? And then the year prior 20, I think it was the year prior Kanye released my beautiful dark twist, fantasy. And that's actually what inspired the border on the yadi cover that I did. The first cover that I ever like fully formed like for a professional. That is so cool. Like when you look at album covers, you don't really know the backstory. No, you don't. Yeah, but there's such a story behind it. Yeah, it's a form of art. And when you first got interested in all of this, was it more like you just loved the music and then you took a moment to look at the art and that's what drew you or was it like you were more visually caught like your attention was caught more visually at first and then you dove into the music. That like the album cover is so important because that's like your first introduction to a body of work. And maybe back then I just like didn't understand that. But now obviously like being in this industry and actually creating them, like you realize the importance of what goes behind the story like how you're formulating the background of each song without the person getting a first listen at first glance. Like they're really exposed to that first like the album cover or it could be like a piece of marketing or like a rollout. But when somebody is introduced to an album, the first thing they see on streaming or back then it was like the you know the CDs and the vinyl that you would buy. It is the album cover. It's the album cover, the packaging, the back cover. And that has to tell a story within itself. So that was like something that always intrigued me. I'm like well that could be something that I could do maybe down the line. Like how do I mix those two things that I really love. I always had a passion for music. So you know the angle of like mixing creativity with music was really foreign to me. But then when I started like figuring that out and like you know just making stuff on the side and having fun with it, I was like I think this could be something. I think this could be my thing. I don't know how I'm going to do it. But I'll figure out a way and I think we're we did pretty well. Oh yeah. So this really stemmed from a passion. Yeah. And you were working in like the agency world at the time. Yeah. I was working in an advert, creative advertising. Yeah. Two and a half years like professionally. And then kind of walk us through the journey and like the timeline of working in the agency world, doing all this stuff on the side. When did that moment with Yachtie happen? Like in your career. Okay. So I think I'll do like a brief overview from two years prior. So like 2014 right after right after school. So it was four year program. And it was like a creative advertising where you learned like copywriting, art direction. The one thing that like really wasn't taught, which was surprising was like the inner workings of like Adobe, like Photoshop, Illustrator, which was kind of strange to me. But I mean it wasn't like you know the end of the world. I just like I figured it out on my own. But I was surprised that that program didn't teach that. But to like the full extent that I taught myself. So it had like little things here and there, but not not the things that I actually taught myself. So you know, obviously like after school, we had a portfolio show. And then the agencies kind of come around and you know look at everybody's portfolio, their work. And what actually got my kind of like name out there or like like the agencies interest was every student had a similar project like breakdown. We had like I think it was eight or nine projects and everybody had the same like outline like for their portfolio show. But what I did, I think it was like a week before we had our portfolio show. I actually scrapped most of that. And at the time I was doing just concepts on the side like music concepts. So what I did is I put all my music work in my portfolio as like a sidebar. So you had like advertising like the homepage about me like an about me page. And then I had like concepts. So when I put that section in there, I feel like a lot of the ad agencies were like interested to see that it was like a difference. Yeah, it's like new. Yeah. And I really didn't share that with like my peers or you know students that like I was like obviously my friends at school. I just did that on my own. And I shared it on a separate page at the time. So not many people were aware that I was doing that, which was cool because it was like a mystery. But I did include that in my portfolio at the time. And that's what got me my first like actual job outside of school. Wow. So it was all from just putting your passions out into the universe. That's what got you your first job. Then you're in your first job for how long? A year and a half. And then I was let go. But at the same time, I was still reaching out to all the artists that I wanted to work with at the time. Still making concepts, still like tagging them, sending them DMs like saying, Hey, this is what I made like if you ever need so-and-so art director designer like let me know I'm interested in doing that. And I would do that like every single day like I commuted from work. We lived at the time. like a little bit outside of Toronto, like the city. So I would take the train into the city, work from nine to five, sometimes go home a bit later. Usually it would take like two hours there, two hours back, and from like six p.m. to like two, three a.m. I would just do my own thing. Like things on the side. Little projects for little budgets for other artists, sending out emails, preparing concepts, decks, things like that. Things that I didn't know had a big impact, but now looking back, that's like something that really like shaped my career at the time. I just didn't know it. I was in a weird time. Yeah, you were so like present with what you were doing. Like you loved the process of creating and building. Was there any thought that went into your mind? Like what is my authority to be pitching these artists? Like is the artist ever going to respond to my DM? Like what gives me the credibility to go and like shoot my shot? Did any of those thoughts pass your mind? They did, but also one thing that advertising, I'll give this like credit to the odd industry. In my agency, they were so good at pitching and building decks. Which I, that was foreign to me too. I didn't understand what a deck was. I know I knew what a PDF obviously was, but like what is a deck and how is that structure? How is that supposed to win you, you know, large projects, large clients, accounts, things like that. So when I, when I was like thrown into that world, that was like something that I immediately clicked with. I'm like, I can do this. I can do really good like decks. I actually enjoy doing them. So once I got in that stride of sending them almost every single day, not nothing crazy, just like a few pages of concepts and ideas. That's when I really found my stride. I'm like, okay, this is going to be a huge thing down the line. I might as well master this right now. So when I was in that mindset of like thinking like, okay, you know, obviously there's a great chance that none of these people are going to respond to me, but I'm still going to take that chance. So when I was looking for their emails, their contacts, yeah, in my mind, like you said, what was like the thought process, you know, there's a chance they might respond. There's a chance they might not. I looked at it like the lottery. It's like a gamble and it's like the lottery. You might hit one out of like a million, but I'd rather go through life like doing hundreds of emails a week than just doing none. Like that point, that point of like not trying never across my mind. Yeah, I mean, something I've been thinking a lot about recently is this idea of having a bias for action. We can't get things done unless we take some step towards that. You can't just like wish things into existence. You have to actually take a line to action. And I do believe in the concept of manifesting, but like the critical part of the equation is that you have to act. It doesn't just come out of nowhere. It doesn't just like appear out of thin air. You have to put in that work and effort to make it fast track and put it into motion. That's how things get done. It's like, and like I was saying before, I think in my mind too, maybe I wasn't like fully aware of it. But every time I sent that email, it was like a high. It was like playing the lottery. That's where to go. Because you don't know like, well, they're not. And I think the key to that too is like knowing that if they don't respond, to not take it personally. No, I never did. Like the lack of response should not stifle you from the motivation to keep doing it. Even like the one-off response that I did get, that motivated me even more. Like my motivation skyrocketed if I got one response. That was like indication to me that I was doing something right. And I felt like if I kept doing this day in, day out, the chances would increase if I increased my volume of emails and they honestly did. So then what about when you got let go from the agency? What was going on through your mind at that time? Did that dampen any of the confidence that you had in your passions and your side projects? Yeah. So that's like a little bit farther into the story. That was after the Yachty thing. The Yachty thing was before. Oh, Yachty was before. So in my head, I didn't understand that what I was doing on the side. I obviously was aware that it was like huge. Like I took into account what I'm doing is pretty cool. I just didn't know at the time could this be something that turns into like my actual career? Like can I turn this into a fully-fledged business? And after I was let go, that allowed me the freedom. I think when I was in the ad world and being so focused and splitting my focus between the two, like music and then obviously my job, maybe my brain was like preoccupied with the thought of, it might be too much to split this and this and not be able to engage with one over the other. But once I was free of that, then it started kicking into motion after. I started getting more projects. You know, being able to make like a living wage too, because you get more and more projects, you're able to say yes to more. I think while I was in advertising, which I don't do now, I really do say yes to like a lot of work, because I don't take anything for granted. The only time that I don't say yes to a lot of things is when I do feel overwhelmed and I can't give 150% of my effort. But back then, it was tough when you had the 9-5 and you wanted to take something on, but you just knew in your head it's going to be difficult like even getting this done on time. And then you'll overwhelm yourself and then you know, I think even like when you overwhelm yourself, it's hard to like produce quality output. Yeah, it is. Right. And so you kind of, that's a hard thing to like grapple with when you have your full-time job, but then also the side passion. So in a way, I guess being like, oh, is like a blessing in disguise. It was. Because I kind of, I'm sure like accelerated a lot of what you were doing. Yeah. And so the yaddy stuff happened before that actually. Can you talk a little bit about the process of pitching and just like what happened to landing you that opportunity? I personally was aware of his music. We went to a birthday party, my friends, and I a few months before like November 2015 or I think it was December. It was around there like winter 2015. And one of my friends was playing his like music. This all came back to me like years later. It was such a coincidental moment. And one of my friends was like introducing me to his music. I'm like, okay, okay, this is cool. I like this. And then he like showed me like what yaddy looked like at the time, like with the red hair. And I was like, this guy's cool. Like this is interesting. Like this is a new, a new wave of music. I really enjoy this. And then a few months later, 2016, it was around Valentine's Day of 2016. One of my brother's friends, this was after work. So I just came home. It was like 7, 27, 30 at night. I was just like taking a break from you know like work, getting dinner. And one of my brother's friends walked into our house at the time. And he's like, what are you up to man? Like good to see you. And I was telling him like how I wanted to work in music somehow. And I was like showing him all these concepts. He's like, Hey, there's a few cool like artists like in hip hop right now. You should check them out. Maybe reach out to them. You never know. One of them might respond. So then I saw it was just like a few of them too. Like it was like, you know, at the time like, oozy. Yeah. Was coming out. It was yaddy. It was mostly that. I remember this too. Because I was in high school at that. Yeah, it was mostly that like freshman class, too, which was, which was like very coincidental. Because they had like that famous like a cipher that they did. But yeah. So then I saw yaddy. And I was like, I know this guy. That's like who my friend showed me at that party. I vividly remember that. I went to his sound cloud. I saw his email. And it was like like, it was in the sound of the phone. That's insane. And this was a few days before he did the easy show. Kanye's event Madison Square Garden. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to send an email. Let's see what happens. It's a good chance that nothing will happen. But at least I'll take the chance. And I had a party to go to that night. This was either Valentine's Day or the night before Valentine's Day. I think it was one of those days. I have to go out soon. I'm just going to stay. And I was this close to not. I was this close to waiting until the morning. But I'm like, you know what? Stay 20 minutes. And just do it. And do it. So that cover that ended up being the cover. I put together like a few rough references, like concepts that resemble it like almost to the tea. It's like very similar to the final cover. But I attached three attachments, wrote out an email, sent it, didn't think anything of it went out. And then I got a response within a few hours. That's insane. Like literally late late that night. And then I left immediately to get on a call with his manager. And yeah, like what just happened. Mostly his manager, who I'm very close with to this day. I feel like the biggest learning from that is, again, it's like having the bias for action. Or like so many times in life, I feel like we get in our own ways of doing things. Like, oh, I don't have the time for this. Oh, but they might not respond. Oh, but any excuse that we can make, we will. Because humans default towards that. Yeah, we do. But it's like, okay, just give yourself the extra 20 minutes. Like it's okay to show up to the party 20 minutes. Yeah, it's fine. Just do it now. But when it's fresh and you have that momentum. So I think there's a lot that like I can personally learn from your journey. And really anyone who feels like creatively driven. Like if you want to produce something or build something, like you shouldn't stop yourself for just going for it. - Hey, you shouldn't. - You know, and then like when you work with artists, like Yachty, Don Talver, like the list goes on, what does the process look like for you when you're thinking about actually visually depicting the music that you're hearing? Do they kind of like have the songs that you then listen to and then you're like, okay, I'm gonna whip something up or are you working separately or like together with the artist? What does that look like? - It varies on who I work with like very closely. So I think the closest people in my career that I've worked with like, you know, day in, day out, like sending stuff, whether it's like in a group chat with their managers, them, it would have to be like Yachty, a little baby at the time when we did his two covers. It was like me, him, and Pee who I'm also very close with. That's his like main manager. So they're over at QC, it's Coach K and Pee who manage baby. So that was like who I was working with, Pee and him. And I think it was in Cuevo at the time too. Like we worked like pretty closely when we were going through his cover. So I think those two or three were like the closest that I got to like day in, day out, sending concepts. And JoJo too, JoJo from, she's like a singer, I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. She has one of those like classic songs from back in the day. - I'm better with, I don't recognize her name. - I'll show it to you after. - So to you after, but I'm good with like listening. So it's actually interesting when I listen to music, I don't actually listen like album start to finish, which I don't know if that's like an unusual thing to do. I feel like a lot of people do this and start to finish. But I can never remember like names of albums or songs. I just like know this, the sound. - Yeah, the sound. - And the vibe and the melody. - You'll recognize them with the melody. - So I probably will. - So is her name Summer Walker? - Summer too. - Have you worked with that one? - That was more so within the LVRN team. So it wasn't as close as the rest of them, but it was still within like my team, which they're amazing. And I still love them to this day. They were like really also the most like pivotal part of my career when I was first starting. 'Cause it was at the time Yachty and then right after I worked on Black, like the six, yeah. That was the other cover that, at the time, I had no idea that that was gonna explode as well with the bear on it where they did the photo shoot with the actual-- - What's the problem? This is not a song at all. - Yeah, that's a song on the album. - That's a song. - I was literally just saying, I don't remember song names. And now I'm like splitting that. So interesting to also work with different types of people too. Like I'm sure you're just met with like so many different personalities. How do you like translate what's in their brain into a visual medium? - I think one thing that a lot of designers or my peers, maybe like we have spoken about it, but I think it's so cool that we're like privileged to get music that hasn't come out yet. And it's shared with us ahead of time. And we get to experience it before the rest of the world. That's a really cool thing that I've noticed. And I think on it pretty frequently, like whenever one of my clients sends me a song, I'm like really grateful because they're sharing something with you before the rest of the world. And you get to keep that as you're working, which is like a huge bonus, because you get to hear what they're thinking. It's their art and they're sharing it with you. So they entrust in you that you'll take that in and hopefully come up with something great like through your art, which is for us like the visuals. And like kind of forming that story of what that song is going to be how their fans are going to first experience or get exposed to that release, which is really cool. So I feel like when I'm just starting like a project, I really like to get inside like their thoughts and like what they're thinking first. And I really enjoy when an artist sends like references. Even if it's like a few images or like a little tidbit on what they're thinking for like the cover or whatever it is like the tour poster, logo, merch, I like to hear like their side of things too 'cause I feel like when you're working on something that close with another artist and their art and you're kind of combining your creative minds, I feel like it's super important to, you know, just kind of get a scope of like what they're thinking at first. That's really important to me. So I love when artists like send me like a mood board or references or even like a page that they put together of like what inspires them and what they're thinking. And then we can kind of mesh our thoughts together and create something great hopefully at the end of that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's so cool too, 'cause then the art is like a physical depiction also of like I feel like the artists like evolution and their journey. Like if you think about the weekend, for example, he has completely like transformed since that initial like album cover that you referenced. What was the name of that album again? That was House of Balloons. - Yeah, it was. - The first one. Yeah. - To now, like I feel like he's more poppy now. - Yeah. - He's a global superstar, yeah. - Exactly. And not in a bad way, just he was more, it was more maybe niche then and then as his career has evolved, like even the most recent album in comparison to the one right before. - Hurry up tomorrow. - Yeah, this song names like are complimentary. So one is like escape from LA and then the other, like in the book, exactly. Like I feel like even across albums, certain artists will storytell too. Like the trajectory of their path as being an artist. - He's a great storyteller. I feel like his album is my personal favorite out of that trilogy, 'cause it is a trilogy, like the next one is after hours because I feel like also a big thing that a lot of people don't talk about is when something is released. I feel like that one just like trumps anything after because it was such a like a unique time. It was COVID. And you drop that album when all of us were kind of in the midst of not being able to like go out and you know do other things that we normally would be able to do. So you're kind of like entrapped with like this album and you have to take it in and you get to fully immerse yourself in that. And I feel like that one hit me the hardest after hours. - Really? - Yeah, and it was so well done. I personally think, I'll say this like on record, I think the after hours rollout is like top three in history. In like that to the tee, how they put that story out, the trailer. I still get goosebumps from that, the short film, I love that short film that they did. It's so good. - Now I feel like also like short films are becoming more of a thing in music too. The Tribeca Film Festival was right before Ken. And I went and Kid Cudi was sitting on a panel about his song Neverland because they released the short film of it. And now the album's out today, which I actually listened to. - I thought the jacket out, yeah. I love the cover, I really like it. - Yeah, I was gonna ask you about the cover. Like what is it bring up for you? Just looking at it like on first glance without having listened to the music yet. - When I first looked at it, I think I was like trying to figure out how it was formed 'cause like it's really like surrealistic. And I kinda, I think, am I wrong in saying that it kind of reminds me of like the Truman Show? Like the-- - There's a song called Truman Show. - I didn't know, I didn't check out the tracklist yet. - That's crazy. - There's literally a song called Truman Show. - The only thing that I've been exposed to for that album is the cover, that's it. And I know obviously that he was gonna release it. But I did not know the tracklist. But that's what I first thought of when I saw that. 'Cause I actually did an idea for a cover not too long ago. And it was the Truman Show staircase. - Wow. - So that they didn't like end up coming out. It's a concept. Like I shared it, but right when I saw that I'm like, "That looks like Truman Show." That's cool. - So that's what registered in your mind was just-- - Right away. - For me, like the clouds it felt very like dreamy kind of like an escape. But also when you listen to the songs, and I'll have to ask you about it when you actually do listen. But like at least for me, the lyrics, especially in the Truman Show song, you know he talks about how he realized that he can like, be the director of his own Truman Show. And so to me, I feel like this album represents like him reconnecting with Joy in Peace. And so much of his music came from such a dark place in his life. And to see the trajectory and evolution of how he's found Joy. It's so beautiful like as a listener, like it makes me really happy. But then to see that also reflected in the album cover is so cool too, like how it pairs together. Are there any artists that like really inspire you that you'd love to work with one day? - Yeah, there's only one. I have like a list obviously of like my dream collaboration but to this day there's only one artist that I like revere and I wanna at least experience working with them once before they're like retired 'cause they are a little bit later in their career. It's Shade. Yeah. - I don't even know who that is. - You don't know Shade is? - No. - Oh, come on. - That's so bad. - It's not like bad. I never like, I never judge, but you have to check out Shade. - Rapper? - No. - She's a singer from back in the day. - Okay. - She's like classical, like jazz very like. - Oh my God. I feel so uncultured right now. - No, it's all good. There's some artists that I don't know as well but it's all basically like what you grew up listening to. It's not a big deal but yeah, but well, now you have to check out. - Now I'm gonna listen. So like jazz more classical. - Yeah, do you know the song, "Smooth Operator"? - Yeah. - That's her. - Oh. - It's just so cool. - I don't know what it was up right here. - Okay, like I saw it up there with the melody. Okay, there's a common girl. - Shade, yeah. So she's in her 60s now. - Uh-huh. - And there has been rumblings that she's working on her next album with her band. They are a band. So Shade is not just one person. It's also a band that accompanies her records, makes the albums with her. So my dream is to work with her before she retires and like doesn't put out another album. I have been trying for like two, three years using my connections, trying to figure out how to reach out to her, but she's almost non-reachable. - Wow. - She lives like secluded away from all the drama, the media, and I really respect her. - Maybe she's happier. - Yeah, she's like, she to me is the most like mysterious, but mysterious done in the right way. In an elegant, she's the most elegant artist that I think we've ever had. - Wow. - Alligants is like, so it's like one of one. - I'm gonna listen more now because I'm very curious. And I'm also kind of surprised that you didn't mention another rapper. Like this is a completely different genre that really lights you up. And you said you always had a passion for music. Was it like any particular genre that really drew you or just enjoyed listening to anything? - Her music is like the earliest music that I remember hearing. Like my parents used to play her, like play her songs, and I had no idea who it was, but I remember vividly listening to smooth operator on my own, on the radio, and that like struck a chord with me 'cause I was like, I know this song. And then I figured out who Shade was, and that the rest was history. That was like the defining moment for music and making that connection from like an nostalgic memory, and then putting two and two together when you rediscover something like years later, that was a really special moment. And ever since I've been obsessed with her, like as a fan, but also I feel like if her and I were to work together, it would probably be the best work that I would do in my entire career. For sure, 100%. - And I feel like you're already putting it out into the universe. That's I think probably like one of the first steps to get anything to happen is just to verbalize it, like to make it known, and to get so invested in that desire. Even when I reflect in my life, when I first started doing events with my podcast, I pitched doing an event at Allo Yoga. And like, I'm kind of somewhere to you. Like I didn't really think twice about walking into the store, going up to someone and being like, who can I contact to do an event? And they gave me the manager's email and it took a year of persistence. - Oh, that's, I know. - But then it happened. I had my name next to Allo with this event, and like it started with me putting it out into the universe. And I think it's easy to kind of lose that spark or like to forget that it's there. And earlier today we were talking about how, or like you had mentioned to me that you are okay with not necessarily like celebrating the small wins and just putting your head down and like doing the work. Can you elaborate more on what you mean by that? 'Cause I personally feel like it's important to like have gratitude for those moments or to like recognize them. But what's your approach with that? - A lot, yeah, a lot of people, and I totally agree with them. I can only speak for myself, like my inner feeling, like within myself of how I feel after I accomplish something. But I totally agree with every single person when they say you have to be able to like step back, appreciate what you've done, take a moment to celebrate. I don't remember the last time that I've done that. And maybe that's just like a psychological thing. I don't, I can't explain like how that makes me feel. But there's other things that bring me happiness. That just hasn't been the thing where I've been like, wow, this is like incredible. You know, when you're like impressed with yourself or something that you've done, I've never really been impressed. And I feel like other people, and you know my audience and my peers, they celebrate that a lot more. But for me, I'm, I don't know, it's just like it's been something since I started my career. I just can't get a handle on it. I mean, I guess maybe it's just like you have this standard for yourself, so you're like, well, of course, I'm gonna do what I set out to do. Like, I'm not even gonna second guess it. It's not like a, like from a vanity perspective, oh, I've done all these things. I'm so impressive. But it's like, this is what I wanna do with my life. And so this is how I'm gonna live it. You touched on that really well. Like when you're like proud of yourself or you're impressed with yourself, I feel like I put myself to such a high standard every time that, and I went through it just recently too, when you feel like, when you get to a point or when you get to an accomplishment or a goal or any kind of like milestone, you'll get like that endorphin release or something, but it just doesn't happen. And you're like, well, I gotta chase the next thing now. It's like chasing a high that the high never comes. But I will say I encourage everybody like listening to do the opposite of what I do, because I'm just like a different, I think I'm a different breed. I have like come to terms with myself that I think I'm not gonna expect for that moment of happiness to come, but I'm gonna keep on the trajectory of doing what I do and what works for me, which is I just don't stop. Like I'm okay with that, because it's kind of like a gift in a curse. Yes, on the curse side, I'm not able to like celebrate what I do and I'm not able to like take a step back and you know, really acknowledge how far I've come because I'm always thinking of the next thing, the gift to that. It's made me into a really, you know, in the most humble way, an incredible worker and just like goal-setter and I feel like I'll never stop. I don't think I'll ever retire, but also a lot of people complain, well, then that means that you don't really love what I do, but I honestly, I'm so like internally, I'm happy and I love what I do. It makes me so happy. So maybe that's the celebration that I've found my happiness and every day I can honestly say as transparently as possible. No lie, not for the podcast. When I wake up, it's something I look forward to. I look forward to opening up my emails, looking through who would like to work together, opening up Photoshop, simple things like that, simple things that people might see as mundane or boring or a chore. That's like really exciting to me because then it makes me look back and here I can actually appreciate this. So maybe we can kind of take like a sidebar. What I do appreciate is that I'm not in the same place that I was like a decade ago. So that keeps me going too. When I think back at the struggle, the unknown of not knowing where you're going to be or where your career is going to take you, now I don't have to worry about that. So that is something that I wake up with and I have like immense gratitude towards that I'm super grateful that I really worked to a standard that only I can appease. Like only I can set that standard for myself and no one else can tell me, okay, this is not good enough, that's not good enough, I'm my own boss now. So I have to keep that standard going and I will say that is what makes me happy. Maybe I don't realize it, but there are moments in my head when I'm on my computer, when I'm out or when I'm not thinking about it directly where it pops in my head, I'm like, can't believe I'm here. Like this is really cool. This is a cool moment and then I bask and take it in. But not when an accomplishment comes around and when I check something off the goal list or like a milestone, I don't really stop. And people would be like, well, come on, like you don't stop and think that's impressive of yourself. I'm like, no, I don't. I honestly don't see it as impressive because day in and day out, I'm so intertwined with it. Like I have understood what path I've chosen and it's just something that I'm going to keep going forever. And no, I don't plan on ever retiring. I just love what I do. I mean, so I have so many thoughts. And I love this because to me, what I hear is that you've lived a life that's in alignment with your values and your purpose. That is a really hard thing and that most people spend their entire lives trying to figure out how to do. And it is really hard to do that. I think that in a way, the lack of overthinking is what propels you to take action. And therefore by taking action, like you're bridging the gap, like you're getting closer to what you actually lights you up, what you're meant to do. And to not kind of bask in maybe the accomplishments, I do believe is actually a great thing because there's no ego. Like, there is no ego. And like you're a very humble person. That was like my first impression of you. And then all of a sudden we start talking blah, blah, blah. And like, wait, this guy's really cool. And it's inspiring for me because part of the reason I am doing this podcast is to surround myself with people who have built things in their life and who have done it in a way that's sustainable. And they want to continue working because that's who they are. Not because working is a drag and it's exhausting, but like, it's what lights them up. I think that another big takeaway from what you shared as well is having the belief in oneself and like cultivating that. Because I would guess that part of the reason why you're not like, quote, unquote, impressed with what you're doing is because you're like, well, I know I can do it. Yeah. For sure. And even if there's a failure, I know I can still do other things and I can keep moving forward. Yeah, I also think at this point, and I won't lie, there have been moments where I think this is like the first time I've ever even told somebody about this. Besides like, some close friends at the time when I was like going through it. There was times where I actually didn't enjoy design. And I feel like it was mostly because I was in that moment being like ungrateful or just in a bad headspace. But yeah, there were moments where I really didn't enjoy what I was doing. And that like really upset me. But even now, I think the way that I've programmed like my mentality and the way that I think now as opposed to a few years ago, maybe like 2018, 2019, I would say around that like era or time, that's when that like those thoughts started to creep in. And I was like, I think I need to like change it up. I don't know if I like this anymore. And then a few months later, things start to align. You start taking on one big skill that I think we should elaborate on a bit later too is picking the right work that was within your like space of like what you're doing because I feel like at that time, there may have been maybe one or two projects that kind of kind of steered me off course. And I was like, I don't enjoy what I'm doing now. Maybe it's because of this. Maybe it's because of that. But now, after falling back in love with it, I've realized what the key is to sustain that love for it. And it's just expanding what you do. It's expanding the scope of work. It's expanding your skill set. It's expanding what you think you're capable of. And just like how far you set your goals. So now my goals are different from what they were back then because I've expanded my thought. It's not just like, Oh, yeah, this is all I can do. Everyone knows me for album covers, merchandise for artists, things like that. But that's not all I can do. I can do so much more now in my career and just like my thought process. I'm thinking, how am I going to expand to like other sectors like now I really enjoy editorial photography. That's my next like scope of work that I want to conquer. And it's been really good for the past two or three years. But now I feel like I can get better. Then it's going to be design and film. That's something I haven't even touched on yet. I just do it for fun. But that's like the next frontier that I want to conquer too. So now that I have a different mentality and I have a different skill set. I understand where to take things when I feel like I'm steering off course. So even if that like thought or you know, mental instability kind of creeps in, now I have the skill set and the tools to kind of steer my thinking in the right direction as opposed to being like, I hate what I do. Which I don't. I don't. Yeah. And again, it's all about mindset. You know, I love that you bring that up because the thoughts that you think dictate your reality. And especially the thoughts that you choose to believe are true versus which ones are false. A lot of the times we let our limiting beliefs and our negative thoughts permeate and they like inhibit us from taking action. And when you feed the kind of like almost like delusional positive self belief, you create that success in your life. So I that's why again, I think the manifestation thing is not woo woo like there's actually science behind it. And it's about putting the things in your environments, surrounding yourself with the people that let you up that remind you, I think why you're doing what you're doing because it's, you know, I love that you brought up like that comment around at a point in your life kind of losing the love for what you were doing. But you know, it's like, okay, that can happen. But you have the choice to fall back in love with it and finding the things that like light up your inspiration. For sure. That's how I feel. I feel like, you know, even thinking back during that like time and that those few years that that was going on, I feel like as you progress and as you like get older and you start, you know, acknowledging those things as opposed to like dwelling on them, I feel like that really helps too. Because like even thinking back on that, I'm like, I wouldn't that wouldn't even like cross my mind. Maybe you have an off day at work or something like that. But I would never think about like stopping what I'm doing right now because I I'm so grateful to how far I've come. Now it's just about, you know, reaching another area or like exploring a different part of like creativity that I haven't ventured off into now. It's just about expanding now. It's about crossing different paths, you know, meeting new people, having different clients, different even a different atmosphere. For me, I'm really like secluded when I'm designing. Like you're not as a graphic designer and just like overall like an art director, you're not really interacting with a lot of people in like fit like in like the physical world. Like you're texting, you're on the phone, you're on Zoom, all that. But one thing that photography has taught me is like the importance of like working with that team and meeting new people. I feel like when I started doing like my first few shoots and especially the complex shoot that I did in 2023, that was like a whole new experience. I never did a cover shoot in my entire life. And when I got to experience that, I fell in love with that. So even going back to like that moment, I can even say in that like space, even like a high stress moment, not by design, just in my head because I had I put so much pressure on myself and it wasn't needed because everything went so well and everyone was so happy with the result, only me in my head. You know, I put that like within my mind like, okay, you can't mess up. You got to do like, you know, the highest level of photography that you possibly can make sure you study everything. And then you get there and you're like, well that wasn't so bad. Exactly. We were so fearful before this actually happened. Do you meditate by any chance? Like there's a lot of themes I'm hearing just around like quieting the mind. I wish I did. I haven't I maybe tried it in the past, but my lifestyle, I feel like my meditation is working out. Like when I work out, that's like my form of meditation and my escape from like what I do on the daily. So that's like also going back to it. That's like my main form of indoor physical. Yeah, that's 100%. Well, I loved it. That kind of leads me to one of my final questions for you. And it's something that I ask every guest on the show, finding things in life that bring us joy. There's such a wide variety of activities, experiences, things in life that can spark joy. And I love how it can be very bespoke to a certain person. But then there's also like so many common themes about what brings people joy. But I would love to hear from you. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? Is there is there like a few answers I can have? Even as many answers as you want. I'm going to do the main three. So my first one after being in this like line of work, you know, obviously building up this career over the past few years, I think one thing that really brings out endorphins and just gives me endorphins is helping people. But in a way to show them that they're also able to achieve their goals and dreams, just like I would say in some capacity I have as well. So one thing that I really enjoy doing is watching people go through their journey and reach their starting point to their point in life where they can say, you know what, you know, I've reached a milestone or I have made my dreams like come true in my career as well. And I feel like that really makes me happy because I know what it's like to be at that position where you know, you're looking for help or looking for any guidance or some kind of support from somebody. But to be honest with you, I really didn't have that guidance. I had to figure out a lot of things on my own and a lot of that had to do with the development of, you know, in the progression of like technology, social media, in music, especially like streaming was just blowing up when I started designing in music, which is interesting because I think I got in at the right time and the right place too. So a lot of people that are in my like space and my like area of work started later. So it's a little easier now to get into the swing of things. Labels are actively looking for new designers, new creatives. Now there is motion design, motion design and 3D, 3D work. I'm not well versed in that stuff, but I have so many friends that are amazing at that and I love what they do. I have all the respect in the world for them. So there's so many new ways to build a career in that space and they weren't developed back when I was just starting. So I feel like that is like something that really brings me happiness. The second thing is family. I really love family. I think like spending time with family as much as possible is super important to me. We're European, so we're obviously like very close. We have a large family, so we try to get together as much as possible. One fun memory I have when I was a kid is we're Serbian. So I'm right. So it's like the bulk in what? The bulk in Orthodox Christian vibes. Back one fun memory that I have is unfortunately we don't do it very often. If not anymore, we used to have huge parties at my grandparents with everybody's cousins and uncles. I remember that because I have the video, the VHSs of that and the photos. Now it's not existing. That was super important to me because you don't realize until it's gone, like what you had. Like yeah, there's gatherings here and there and people get together when they can, but the fast pace like way of life now, technology, a lot of family is getting older now on my side. So it's harder to get everyone together, not everyone's able to get together. So that is a very fun memory. So family is super important to me. That brings me a lot of endorphins. Unfortunately, not as many gatherings, so those endorphins can't be reached very often. I feel that. My dad is one of six, so I have a lot of family on my dad's side. But they're scattered across the state. So it's not often we all get together. But I was just in the West Coast for some family weddings on my dad's side, and that's, you know, we were all together. Weddings, oh my god. Our weddings are like some of the best. My big factory wedding. And it's like massive. One of the best movies on my favorites. Yes. And then last thing that brings you endorphins. The third thing is animals. I'm a big animal person. Yeah. Big like pet an animal person. I think this is the first time I've ever shared this. Like, if I didn't do design and I was to do like a job that's so like left field for me or somebody's like, what would be like a cool job that you would be like really good at? But do it to the highest level. Like work with animals in some way. Wow. Maybe that's your second act down the line. Oh, I already have a plan. If you want to hear it, yeah. So this is like my goal. This is the sole reason that I'm trying to build an empire and work towards the highest level of like whatever I'm doing with whatever like scope of work. I want to make as like much money as possible for the right reason. I want to like some way like stop what these like big pet stores and companies are doing till like all the like smaller animals. Wow. That really bugs me. I don't know why, but that's just like an honest thing. Like from the heart every time because I used to have like a lot of pets like growing up and recently like I just had a pet pass, which is so I'm sorry to hear that. But animals are like a huge part of my life. I don't know why. I can't even tell you, but it just like bring you a lot of endorphins. I mean, they bring you joy. Like every time I see a little puppy, I just I want to just hold a little puppy. Yeah. I love all animals. So my one goal in life, make as much money as possible, buy out the big corporations and like stop like the sale of like all those like small animals and stuff. Well, and like cut it completely out. I think these are great goals to have. And I am confident you will accomplish all of them. I am so grateful to be in your orbit and how we met and to be here today. Truly thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me such a pleasure. And last thing, where can my listeners follow you? Connect with you? Find you. You can follow me on my socials, mostly Instagram and Twitter and take talk. It's all the same. So it's like my first and last name combined. So Mahalo and so like I and then my full name, M I H A I L O, last name A and D I C. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to follow along, stay plugged into the community. You can do that through a variety of ways. Follow the podcast on Spotify, Apple, wherever you stream your shows, stay connected on Instagram at Everyday Endorphins, find us on TikTok and subscribe to my substack, which is also Everyday Endorphins. But on the substack, I get to explore some of my own personal musings on what it means to lead a joyful and happy and fulfilling life. Reminder to keep spreading Endorphins and focus on the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time.