Ep. 162 - Marketing Beyond the Funnel - Katie Morrow

And I think with that, and this is sort of why I like start up so much, is that you really have to understand your product really well, you really have to understand the audience really well, and you really have to work closely, I think, with all of the other departments to give the customer the best possible experience and make them as happy as possible with the software that they're using. - Welcome to VUChapaz, the digital marketing podcast. - All right, welcome in, I'm Vince Quinn, and today we're talking about improving the customer life cycle and joining us for this conversation is Katie Moro, she's the head of marketing at TireTutor. Katie, welcome to FutureFuzz. - Thanks so much for having me. - Yeah, excited to have you. So let's get the wheels rolling, shall we? It was painful as I said and I apologize, but let's give this, so first off, just give people a little bit of background of what TireTutor is, what kind of work you do. - Yeah, sure, so TireTutor is a shop management system for TireDealers, and it's really the first of its kind in terms of being AI-powered all in one, and we really power everything soup to nuts from e-commerce to supply chain to point of sale. So it really allows independent dealers, and these are dealers who own their own business essentially. It allows them to operate off of a single platform, kind of like a single tab on their web browser all day long. So it really kind of makes things simple for them. - Yeah, so all in one place, and so with that thing, like you said, it's a lot of independent places, smaller businesses, like those are the kinds of people that you tend to work with the most. - Yeah, absolutely. So I think a lot of times when we hear that term B2B marketing, right, where we think about sort of like a typical corporate audience, and in this case, it is, it's a little bit different, right? It's folks who are managing a business, and it's a service business. They're changing tires all day. They're doing car repairs, that kind of thing. So they're really busy all day, and they're not online the way you think about sort of like a B2B audience typically is. They're not online all day, you know, working at their computer necessarily. - Yeah, so a little bit of a different approach then, right? When you're thinking about these people, like as head of marketing, you're thinking about, how do I get in touch with these people? It's not just like, all right, we're gonna spam LinkedIn because like that-- - Exactly, exactly. - Yeah, yes, very different channels to think about, yep. - Yeah, so I mean, let's talk about that then, right? Let's get a little bit into this life cycle. I mean, first off, just like, how are you, when you're thinking about customer life cycle, just in your own words, what does that mean to you? Like, how do you look at it? How do you approach it? - Yeah, so I really think about it as the customer journey, right, in terms of when they come through, and it starts with that awareness of your company, and probably like a pain point that your software is gonna solve for them. And you're thinking about their journey from that to becoming a customer and then all the way through to hopefully, you know, upgrading and becoming an advocate. And I think with that, and this is sort of why, like, start up so much, is that you really have to understand your product really well, you really have to understand the audience really well, and you really have to work closely, I think, with all of the other departments, to give the customer the best possible experience, and make them, you know, as happy as possible with the software that they're using. - Yeah, okay, you said so many good things there that I wanna dig into all of this. I mean, first off, just from the idea of when you're talking about customer life cycle, I love that you open this up from the idea of, I mean, obviously awareness, right, they need to be aware, and they have a problem, I think that's how everybody would look at it. But then, when it gets to the point where for you, the end goal is really advocacy, and these people are like super fans of the product, I love that that's the mindset. So what, and you see that as just part of the life cycle, right? You're trying to grow every single person there. - Yeah, that's right. And again, it comes from being really closely aligned with all of your partners within the organization. So, one of the things that you see as an organization gets bigger, I think, is, you know, folks get a little bit more siloed. So if they are just managing demand gen, they're thinking of these folks as just leads, and then that sort of ends right with conversion in terms of sales. And so they're not really thinking about all the way through like the consistency of the messaging and the education and all the things that are gonna help, you know, make that experience successful for the customer. So I look at it also from that perspective of like the consistency, and then once they onboard with us, what are the things that we need to do on the marketing side that align, you know, closely with product schools and customer successes goals to make sure that that customer continues to understand the value of the platform and continues to learn about new features that are gonna benefit them. - Yeah, so I love all of that. I mean, how do you do that, right? On the simple side, like, it sounds amazing, right? And it's like, okay, well, I would love to do that. Like, how do you even begin that process? What are the kinds of things that you care about as you're trying to maintain that experience for people? - Yeah, so a lot of it is, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot is content as well. So sometimes we think about content more as kind of, like a lead magnet, right? But content actually plays a role throughout the lifecycle of the customer because some of the, you know, one of the things that I've done is create a study here that looks at some of the transactional data that we capture, you know, when tires are purchased on a website that we manage, for instance. And that's the kind of thing that yes is valuable to the, you know, the lead or people researching and trying to understand like who's a player in the industry, but it's actually just valuable data for our existing customers to understand. Like, what are the most popular times that people purchase online? What are the most popular tire brands? So providing content ongoing is really important, I think, not just for positioning yourself as a thought leader, but actually for providing them with useful, useful information that can help them in their day-to-day business. - Yeah, and I mean, I totally get that 'cause that's where I live in a lot of different ways. I mean, I've pretty much built my whole career and podcasting, that's what it's been all about. And the idea is like, there's so much good information that you can get out. Like if I were to boil down, I think the central thesis of my professional life, it's the idea of like, you have a good idea, you have good information, and all you need to do is put it on different platforms as easily as possible, right? Like if this information is good, it can work as a blog, it can work as a video, it can work as a piece of audio, it could be a LinkedIn post, it can be a TikTok, like you just, you're redesigning it, you're repackaging it for what that platform is, but it's valuable information everywhere and it's ongoing value. So I think that's like such an important thing 'cause it is the front line awareness, but then as they're going through the funnel to say, "Hey, well yes, this information is relevant for you too." Like I got off the line just yesterday, it's funny timing with this. I finished a call yesterday with a client and he was like, "Yeah man, I'm gonna, "you know, he ended the call with, "I'm gonna keep listening to the show." So I'll know everything that you're up to and I know what's going on. And I was like, "Yeah, that's awesome." Like I'm glad it's doing it for you and that's really the dream, right? Is when you've got your people, your customers, they are those advocates because they are consuming this stuff and that's why they love you. You keep giving them that value again and again. - Yeah, so I mean, so with that then, when you're thinking about it like front line and then like ongoing, what are the kinds of things that you like when it comes to content? What are some of the pieces that, or where do you spend most of your time most recently for making content? - Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that I've been doing a lot of lately are videos and they're not all externally visible right now because they are more targeted to existing customers. And so I've been working really closely with product on what's the best way in terms of go to market to release new features and make sure that the customer understands, how to use it, what the value is, and what is that sort of long term vision for the product? So I find videos have been sort of like my go to and I've actually been incorporating as I'm sure a lot of marketers are these days AI into those videos. So it's got sort of a more polished voice over that isn't me anymore. So I think AI opens up actually a lot of opportunities to like you were saying, take a piece of content and slice and dice it into different formats for different audiences. And it really kind of lets the single market or kind of exponentially expand some of like what can be done. It expands sort of like your resources in a way. FutureFars is sponsored by sales tools, B2B pipeline management and sales growth for your business. Yeah, I mean that is such a big thing, right? I think anybody, no matter the size of the company, anybody I talk to, I swear to God, whether it's a single person that runs their own business, it's a single marketing person in a smaller business or it's a five person team in a bigger company. Like everybody is having to do more with less and as much as you can simply, right? Like everybody you talk, nobody is like, oh my God, we have so many resources. It's a wide open war trap. Like it's the, you know, I swear to God, like everybody I talk to. So it's a real struggle in that way. And with that, yeah, to be able to simplify everything, it really is the point, like what is the easiest way to make this stuff? And for the idea being of like, you know, for me it's repurposing and it's all about that vision of people learn different ways, right? And so like the very least with videos. they're getting to see something and hear something. So you're approaching them two different ways to get the information across. And if it turns out they put the video on and just listen to it, like cool. Do what you want. I do that with YouTube. I'll put it on in the background, put on a podcast, and I'll cook or whatever's going on. But yeah, like you want to give them that information in a digestible way. So taking that back then a little bit, because you're making these videos, you're rolling out these new features, you're giving it to people that are your dedicated customers and helping educate them on that. And when you're thinking about the lifecycle then, like what is the sort of analysis, the KPIs, if you will, Katie, we love our KPIs. - KPIs, yeah. - What are KPIs for you in that kind of process? - So I think you're gonna look at sort of like traditional email KPIs for instance, or when you are posting, we use a particular software that posts announcements within the product itself. And that gives us certain analytics. There's those things, but I think ultimately to the business, it's really retention, right? And it's use. So are they logging in and using the product? Are they using the new features that have just rolled out that have been announced? So I think in that sense, just the same way that marketing now is partnering with sales on pipeline and not just, MQLs, I think marketing should also be partnered with product in terms of feature use. And they should be partnered with CS in terms of retention. So those are like key business metrics that are really driving the business forward and that marketing can really play a key role in. And I think to me, that's one of the exciting things about being in marketing is that you do get to interface with all these different departments and play a critical role in driving the business forward. - Yeah, and so from that idea of collaboration then, right? - Yeah, so it's really important to engage with all these different departments and keep it moving. Like, what's a pace that's been comfortable for you? Is that like a monthly thing? Is it weekly? Is it like, what does that engagement look like to keep that cohesion together? - It's weekly or more. - Yeah. - And particularly like I work from home. And so I think sometimes, you know, there are standard meetings that I might have with product and with CS and with sales. Those, you know, one off communications, whether it's Slack or whether it's an impromptu call. And some of the other things that I like doing are working on a document together or working on something like a Figma board. So when you think about like customer lifestyle, I'm cycle marketing and you're working out like the touch points, you can't be disconnected, say, from what CS is doing. So if this is an existing customer, there are marketing communications, but at the same time, you know, you have potentially like a relationship manager who's working with that particular client and who has regular intervals and calls there. And marketing should know what those are and kind of so that those things can build off of each other. So I really like to partner with folks and kind of like build out the map together and make sure that all those touch points are accounted for. - Yeah, I mean, which makes sense, right? Like you're making people's lives easier, right? It's like, it's easier for the customer, whether it's a current customer or somebody that's new and getting acquainted and going through the sales pipeline for those people who are dealing with retention then, you're making it easier. Like, that's all supposed to be, right? Like I think we get complicated with all these different processes and stuff, but ultimately it's like, hey, we're gonna work as a marketing team to make this stuff for the idea that it's going to accomplish specific goals to make the business better. And that's why like I love your approach to this as you go to all, 'cause it's so important to connect with all these different departments, keep track of things, iterating on stuff and improving it. So obviously you've got like a real passion and focus on that kind of thing. I guess like generally speaking, right? If people are listening to this, they're going, hey, I would love to get better myself with my business, like my role as a marketer or CEO and have a better customer lifecycle. What are some of the things that you think people tend to miss or what could get overlooked when you're trying to get this right? - What a great question. I think when you first start at a company and this is one of the things that I did was, and other folks may have already sort of started this or worked on it before you get there, but persona development is one of them. And I think that's super important because when you start the role, you really need to understand who your audience is and the kind of messages that will resonate with them. So I think that can get overlooked if you join a company and say you don't necessarily like dig into that yourself and really probe and ask the questions and potentially not necessarily rebuild it, but really understand it and get more depth to it. Because I think that really is the starting point to understanding the entire lifecycle because that really uncovers the pain points, the tight, it's everything from the psychographic to the demographic. And so I think that's really key to building out like a really robust lifecycle marketing. >> Yeah, really, let me give you an example that comes to mind for me and I'd love your take on this. But I was working with somebody who they were consultant and they were a leadership coach. The whole idea was they were helping these larger businesses more like enterprise level companies have more effective C-sweets and better communication across the board. And when they were initially doing some of the messaging, they would switch where sometimes they were talking to the executive, but other times they were talking to the employee. And the complication of that was, it is a very different message to talk about workplace culture from an employee standpoint, versus an executive standpoint. The authority in the situation, the way that you're delivering information, the kind of control you have over it, the impact of it, like it just was so varied and it was like, look, if you're gonna do the, you gotta, in that case they had almost two personas and one was the wrong one. They weren't the employee. Because can you imagine an employee going up to an executive and go, listen, I know somebody who is a leadership coach, I think you need that. (laughing) Yeah. So when you're spending time then making this kind of content that's for the employee to appreciate the situation, like yeah, you wanna talk about employees, but it's more from that leadership perspective. And like defining that persona is something that unlocked simplicity and it's just more consistency in the message. Agreed. And companies may have multiple personas. So like if you have different, for instance, pricing and packaging and like each one of those targets a different type of buyer, it's just, it's really important to understand that and to market around that. Yeah, and then for you in this situation too, 'cause we're talking so much about like having these personas and understanding that buyer very specifically. I know we mentioned a little bit earlier just how the kinds of people that are typically your customer aren't online so much. So like what is that challenge like when they're not as active digitally, but you are making this content, the investments in it. Like what is that like experientially and how does that factor into your calculus, if you will? Yeah, so one of the things about this audience or is that it's not necessarily that they're not online. It's that they're not online nine to five necessarily. So a lot of what we find, you know, for instance, if we are running paid media campaigns is that these folks will respond and fill out, you know, lead forms at midnight, right? Or, you know, at varying hours that are just outside of your typical business hours. And a lot of that is, you know, they're still thinking about their business, but it's still, this is like finally their time to like say, sit on the sofa and scroll through Facebook. (laughs) So it's about timing and I would say the same for email and this is what sort of really surprised me. My last job was also kind of in this automotive type of space. And we would look at the email metrics and we'd be like, why is Friday and Saturday like why do they have the best open rates, right? It's just a complete opposite of what you would think. Yeah. In a typical sort of like, you know, corporate VV audience, but again, it's like in that situation, it's because they actually were like at work. This was a different job, but you know, that was when they actually were online. So it was just kind of interesting. You know, you do have to look at those analytics and really understand like when to send things, when to post things like what, you know, it's about timing as well as like the content and the channel. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And it's one of those things that I've, like certain companies that I've spoken to on the show recently, they've talked about how they started to incorporate like people from, other people that deal with trades, for example, right? They'll be like, well, we've tried to hire some people who have been in those trades like to understand that kind of information because, hey, if they've worked in, I don't know, just like carpentry, for example, for whatever reason, and it's like, okay, well, they've done that experience, they know what that life is, they do know the day-to-day cycles, the kinds of terminology they use, what they truly value. And like, yeah, that time is going to be radically different. You're going in, it's really active work. When you think about tires, right? Like, that's active work. You know, that's hard work. Like that's a busy place. And you know, you got people got grease on their hands and stuff, like it's not the easiest thing to be like scrolling on your phone all the time. - Right, exactly. - Yeah, so like it's a different experience. It's a different thing to understand. So I love that you've been able to put all of this together. And I really appreciate you sharing this all with us. Like, great perspective, really fun conversation. So Katie, for everybody who wants to keep up, connect with you, what's the best way to connect? - Yes, sure you can find me on LinkedIn. - There you go. All right, well, look Katie up on LinkedIn and find me on LinkedIn too. Say hi, I'm Vince Quinn. That's Katie Moro. Thank you for listening to Future Fuzz, and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Vince. Thanks for tuning in and making the choice to listen to this podcast. If you liked what you've heard today, please don't forget to subscribe.