Ep. - 1611 - ROB SHUTER: INSIDE CELEBRITY PR AND HIS BESTSELLING BOOK

Live a better digital life with WebRoot, all in one digital protection for up to 10 devices, variety of plans designed to protect you and your loved ones from digital threats. You can get powerful antivirus and identity protection without the slowdowns or pop-ups. WebRoot keeps you protected online while staying out of your way. And if your computer feels sluggish, heats up when you open a few tabs or sounds like it's preparing for liftoff every time that it runs, your device probably isn't the problem, your antivirus is. Many big-name brands have become bulky, complicated, and full of pop-ups and upsells. WebRoot essentials Scan 6x faster and takes up 33 times less space than the average competitor. It ranks number one in performance compared to Norden and McAfee. WebRoot's total protection ranked first overall when compared to top competitors. Scan 7x faster than average competitor and takes up 3x less space than average competitor on hard drive. AI has completely changed the cybersecurity game. Scams are smarter, malware is faster, and phishing emails look shockingly real. But the good news is you don't need to be a tech expert to stay ahead of it when you use security that can keep up with AI threats. Unlike free antivirus tools or older security programs, WebRoot is built to counter modern AI-driven attacks. It is fast, lightweight, and designed to spot threats before they even reach you. So WebRoot is offering my listeners an exclusive 60% off offer. So visit www.webroot.com/kkc to learn more. Welcome back for another episode of Reality Life with KKC, and I have a great episode for you today. My guest is Rob Shooter, one of the great celebrity publicists in Hollywood, one of the sharp is gossip curators working, and now a best-selling author. I've known Rob for many years, and this conversation is so much fun because all of you that love the inside stories of Hollywood, this is right up your alley. Now the man who would one day become so connected in Hollywood is actually from Birmingham, England. A city that he describes is more Detroit than Chicago. And down on his luck he says, but full of stories, a working class gray city, which happens to also be the birthplace of Ozzy Osborne. So instead of buying comics like some other boys, he was buying Hello Magazine, a man after our own heart, right? Devouring it. And then taking a cassette recorder and staging these mock talk shows in his bedroom. So he grows up in his own words in a family with very little money and even less tolerance for difference. And being different was the thing he spent years trying to hide until he gets to Hollywood and he realizes it's his superpower. And the funny thing is before the celebrity world, before J. Lowe and Brittany, before any of it, he got a master's in political science and was going to be an assistant to a member of Parliament. You know, do serious things, which of course I relate to. But like so many of us who end up in the strange business, a lot of us had to take strange detours until we got to the position that we ended up flourishing in. And so I think this is a great inspirational story too. Now, the first job that he has across the ocean is at a publicity firm in LA called Braggman Nyman Cafarelli. And when I tell you that was a big deal, it was a big deal. And the story he tells about how things actually shifted his wild. There's this young model on the cover of GQ, a girl that no one had quite figured out yet and hires him. Her name was Tyra Banks. And that one client that won who bet on someone before the world caught up changed the trajectory of his life and career. Then he goes on to Dan Chloris Communications and suddenly he is working with Alistair. Now, I want you to think 2000. So Brittany and J. Lowe and Didi and Alicia Keys and Banjovi and Jessica Simpson and Naomi Campbell and Paris Hilton, even my beloved Barry Manolo. And we talk about that. What does it like to be on the first day of a job where the phones are ringing and they're asking for names of people that you just read about on the cover of a magazine that you devoured. And then he talks about his work in crisis PR in Hollywood too. So I want you to think Ashley Simpson walking off the stage after the SNL lip sync, who's there, Rob. Naomi Campbell after an incident, J. Lowe navigating Benefer 1.0 when Benefer 1.0 was the only Benefer that there was. And then he talks about his time working with Sean Combs. He did that for work for years and then he left it and lots of stories about that. Now, he left because in his own words celebrity was changing. It was becoming all about reality shows and the whole architecture of fame was being rebuilt in real time. So he starts his own shop and Ashley and Jessica Simpson go with them. And then this is my favorite. He walks into his friend Richard Desmond's office to pitch, okay, magazine is a client. Guess what he becomes? The executive editor of okay. He was just going to be the publicist and then he walks out as the executive editor of okay USA. So he takes the magazine from dead last in the celebrity weekly market to fit. He overtakes life in style, lands the first post breakdown, Brittany interview. And if you remember that era, you remember what an absolutely impossible get that would be at that time. So we talk about J.Lo and Jessica Simpson who they really are, not the magazine versions. And then we get to his book. Now it's called it started with a whisper a novel based on a thousand true stories. So here's the premise. You've got four ambitious media insiders land what they think is the job of their dreams. Launching a brand new morning gossip show. And he's got four rich characters. And again, he's now become a best-selling author. And this is definitely a book that you will want to get for a vacation or a beach read or a great gift. Like some of you are going to go to birthday parties this week. What a fun, perfect gift. So here is my interview with Rob. Rob it has been a minute. How are you? Good to see you my friend. I feel like I spend every week week you know, because I'm always listening to your show. So thank you for having me back. Now you're the background that I'm looking at right now. You are living a sweet life. You've got this beautiful piano in the background like what has been going on in your life as of lately? I recently became a best-selling author. That's right. It is so shocking. I knew that I had a big enough, I don't want to say fan base, that sounds so silly. I had a big enough circle that I could have a successful book. And by success we're not talking that many, but in the books that would get me another deal in the books that would pay back my advance. What I didn't predict with this novel is that it would explode. It absolutely exploded. I kept seeing it shooting higher and higher on the Amazon charts. And so now I'm an official best-selling author. It's really thrilling. And you deserve it. I mean, you have had a storied career and I'm so glad that you're at a place now that you're able to enjoy the success because I know how hard you've worked. Take everybody back to the beginning for a moment. But you are from the same town of Ozzy Osborne, you be 40, Durand Durand, like what is going on there? >> Well, a kid from Birmingham, England, I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in Birmingham. I'm not sure there actually was the right side of the tracks. It's sort of an industrial town. Let's down on its look. That's a nice way of saying it. It's a little down on its look. But full of heart. And so I grew up not with a lot of money, but with a lot of love. And I realized that the way for me to change my life was to get an education. And that was not something that was really valued at my school or even in my house. I don't think a school had a library. And so here I am now, an author from a school that didn't have a library from a place that didn't value books. I knew I don't say my escape, but I knew the way that I could change my life. It was working really hard. I'm not particularly bright. I just, I work really hard. I really believe that if you do the work, you get the results. And so I worked my tail off. I got into a glorious university. I got into Edinburgh, University of fancy university, where Kate Middleton went, but she transferred to Cent Andrews to get William Cleverard. Maybe I should have done that. I could have been princess today. Maybe not. And so after, after university, I came to America. And with my master's degree, thank you very much in political science. I couldn't get a job. And so I got a job as a receptionist. I answered phones at a big Hollywood PR company that had opened up a New York office. The movie who works in the media knows that New York is the media capital. This is where all the TV shows are. Good morning America. They're today's show. It's the B.S. show. And so they needed an office here in New York to basically babysit celebrities, big stars, Cameron Derson, Wubby Goldberg when they were visiting New York and they needed somebody to literally drop them around from show to show to show. I became that guy and that's how I learned the celebrity business. Now you said that when you were a kid that you devoured like Hello magazine instead of like comics and that you would have these stage mock talk shows on a cassette recorder. Which I love. And then you go to school for political science, which a man after my own heart because I like you, thought I would work in politics but end up in entertainment. So what was it about your family and your circumstances that won? Did you pay such special attention to people that were in pop culture and did you see any similarities between celebrities? and politicians. Really interesting. Yes, there is a similarity and I think particularly in the world we're living in today, we see how celebrity can be a very big political asset. What happened was when I was born, my arm was damaged. I have really the use of one arm. I can't use this arm unless this helps. And so from the day I was born, I knew I was different. I was treated different. I couldn't walk. I had a walking stick because my balance was soft. When I was a baby, I couldn't crawl because I couldn't use both arms. This arm of mine is a blessing. At the time I didn't know it, I hated it. I hated being different. I hated people making fun of me. I spent so many of my early years in hospitals going to see doctors. It was nearly amputated. Thankfully, it wasn't. But it was discovered that I couldn't even read until I was six or seven years old. And so the comics, the trashy, the weekly magazines that I love, hello, okay, they just gave me an escape. I was that kid that just wanted to escape poverty. I wanted to not feel so weird. I didn't want to have a damaged arm. I looked at all these perfect celebrities in the magazine. I closed my eyes and I dreamt about their lives. And so that's when I first really started to live. Celebrities, I still do. There's a lot of gossip columnists. There's a lot of people in our business who don't like celebrities. I do. I'm really still enjoying them. I go, I love going to the movies. I love going to see a pop concert. I'm really optimistic about it. And so I fell into the world of celebrity. Did I have flags along the way? Yes. Of course I did growing up. I loved stars. I remember there was a signing of one of the Charlie's Angels was in Birmingham, England, of all places. A Devonum signing a fragrance bottle. And I lined up. I couldn't afford the perfume. But I lined up and she signed a napkin on something that I had. And I was so thrilled about it all. And so when I came to America, I didn't, I'm not from the background where I had choices. I couldn't decide what I wanted to do for a living. I didn't wake up and say, I want to be a lawyer or I want to be a pilot. I had to take the job that was offered. And so when I came here, there was a job at Macy's. I interviewed there. I didn't get it. And then there was a job answering phones at a PR office. And it changed my life. And seeing the telephone. It was before we had iPhones. So if you were, you were a big star, if you were Jennifer Lopez and you wanted to speak to your publicist, you had to call me, you had to call the receptionist. And so it was a great way to learn the business at the ground up. And I'm a huge believer in doing the work. Just do the work. If you do the work consistently, I promise you the results will come eventually. When you get to America, do you notice immediately that the way we looked at celebrities and the way that celebrities operated were much different than the celebrities in the UK? Absolutely. This is us. This is mechor. I found my tribe. I just found these people that worshiped at the altar of fame in a way that I dreamed I could, but that I really did in Britain. Yes, celebrities, everything in America, the emphasis on celebrity, the emphasis on fame is not the same in Britain. I laugh all the time when you see these dating surveys in America, they want to marry someone rich and famous. They want to date somebody famous and rich in Britain, the number one choice, not money, it's not fame. They want someone that's funny. So the bridge really put a value. God bless. Yes. Yes. I'm not sure. I think that might be in a real outsider, not only with a damage to arm being gay, but also being British. I just looked at this place from a different angle and it really helped me. Being art is ultimately your superpower and so yeah, they definitely look at celebrities differently. I think it's changed a little bit with social media and TikTok and all the stuff that is in Britain as well as here, but American celebrities for better or worse rule the world. And that's true to today. When you go to watch a movie in England or even maybe in Europe, it's an American movie. If you're listening to pop music in Britain, 80% of it is American artist. And so the television shows come from America. America's the capital of entertainment and New York is the capital of that. So I ended up in the right city at the right time and I was brave enough to do it. Lots of my friends said, don't go there. I also think too. I, by accent helps. In Britain, I'm just an oriental Brit. Here, they think I'm Robert Windsor or that I'm related to the right thing you did here. And they can't tell Americans can't seem to distinguish between a working class of rough accent like mine and a very polemish, like looking at tools where in Britain, they can. So in Britain, the mini eye open my mouth, they know that working class kid Rob. Here, they just think I'm British, which seems to be a little bit of sparkle to it. I know it sounds silly, but when you are talking to a client, do you think that you could provide them with criticism, but they accent softens the blow of it? Oh, everything. When I order a Starbucks and I get the order wrong, the accent helps. There is a love of British accents and maybe it's Mary Poppins. Maybe it goes back even to the other people. But there is such a kindness to Britz and I've seen it. I've been out with friends, so we've walked into restaurants and we can't get in and if I open my mouth and ask where the Louie is, the bathroom is settling in the barbeque table. I'm not saying it's not because of me or celebrity or the fact that they're becoming a little bit more known. It's the accent. It's absolutely the accent and I stick out. I was on Elvis the Rant plugging my book just a few weeks ago. Thank you for having me, Elvis. As I left the building, I was chatting to somebody and somebody stopped me on the street and I was like, "Do that British guy, if I had an American accent, I would have just totally blended in with everybody else on Fifth Avenue." I'm hard. I looked different, my voice is different and trying not to blend in anymore, which I did when I was little, changed everything. It really gave me an advantage. It's an absolute advantage to be a Brit in America, 100%. It's been said about you that you walk into a room and you know everybody at all the tables. If someone goes to something with you that's just like you got accepted, like Rob's not going to be able to come sit with us for a while. That's a skill that someone has to hone for quite some time. So you've been in a position where you know all the information about a celebrity and then you've been on the other side of it where you're in the media. You have been able to maintain relationships with all of these people and still again walk into a room and finesse all the tables. What would you say the first part of the question is like honing that skill, what did you do to have it and also how have you been able to maintain those relationships when you've been in uncomfortable positions because you have to provide insight, information, criticism that isn't always warranted. The first thing is I'm a very curious person. I always mean no-see. When I was a little boy, I was no-see. I couldn't play sports, I wasn't particularly smart, but I knew everyone's secrets. And so really at a very early age, I figured out that I would not get beat up or I would be popular if I knew what was going on. So I always kept my nose to the ground and some people call it gossip, some people call it curiosity. I've got it. My playground was like dangerous liaisons. I knew everybody's secrets. I knew who was kissing her. I knew in my family who was going to go for a divorce who it felt like. And I just just speak because I constantly am looking, I'm looking at your bum. They're saying, "You've got a very similar gift, let me call it that." Well, you've noticed my canopy. There's so much information that comes at us. All you've got to do is open your eyes and this is the sound ridiculous, but I do do it. I can shut up. Just shut up. People will tell you everything if you shut up. Most people are really scared of silence. I even know what I do talk a lot. I can sit for hours in silence. And if you do that, people tell you stuff. So listen to what that they tell you. Listen, listen, listen, listen. You've got to listen to what they tell you and ask a follow-up question. Be curious. It's amazing how many interviews they used to be a jerk on Larry King on CNN. But you could say to Larry King, "I murdered my friend last night, Larry," and he'd say, "Next question." Like, he would have them like, "Oh, yeah, follow, follow, you, follow." Hot take. He was a terrible journalist and he knew who else was. Sorry, Barbara Walters. Terrible. Terrible. He was back there. And the biggest show pony is, "I'm and I love this. I love jumping on your show as a guest. I love doing different TV shows and podcasts. I'm quite comfortable being in the background. I grew up the youngest of five. And so my early childhood, I was not center of attention. I was annoying. I was the backup dancer. I was not beyond say. I was behind her. I was not just think, "Tibalega, I was lads bass." Like, I was not the star of my family. I'm still not. I'm the quiet one of the family believe it or not. And so I quite happy being the backup singer. I'm quite happy being the backup dancer. It doesn't have to be the wrong shoot to show the way that I've managed to deal with these. We call them friendships, but it's really connections. Celebrities love gossip. Celebrities want me as much as I want them. And the really smart celebrities and often their reality stars are the ones that know we work together. As you said, I've been from PR to journalism. It's the same call you. It's just the flip. A really good publicist is a really good journalist. A really good journalist is a really good publicist because you see the story. And I'm not me. And I say I will pinch you. I won't punch you and I warn the celebrity when I'm working with them on a story, you're not going to look all of this. You're going to be okay with most of it and I promise I'll use a nice picture, which is when I worked with Jennifer Lopez that's all she cared about. She didn't read the stories, but it had to be a nice picture. So I don't always say to the reporter, say what you have to say, but definitely a nice picture. And so the same with realities though, as if you put a hot picture in a good headline, then they're going to be okay. Has there been instances where I've been at a restaurant and I see a house like walking towards me and I whisper to my friends, this could go either way. I don't remember if I've upset them or not. Yes, many, many times. Most people get over it. I'm not mean. I'm not for res. I like to pinch you. I never punch. I don't punch, but I'm not pulling my punches. I don't punch. I don't punch my friends. I don't punch. It's just not my style. And so I think it's about finding who you were as a child and figuring out how you make money from that. What I am doing right now is exactly the same as what I was doing when I was little. I would sit and gossip with my friends, mostly girls, mostly women. And with sitting with gossip and would laugh for an hour, I'm doing that today. Tell everybody how Tyra Banks was instrumental in the beginning of your career too. He was the first big star I ever had. So I did a lot of Broadway people. I respect them. They weren't their tales. But it was definitely that I represented the spoo and beauty and the beast or the teeth. It's like it wasn't the star. And so I had a ton of Broadway people and then Tyra Banks fell into my lab. Tyra became my first major celebrity. Tyra's the first client I had where reporters would call me instead of me pitching them. And she really taught me PR. She taught me how to do this. She taught me how to identify a story. She taught me a narrative, but she taught me how important looking sharp was. And so Tyra, even though she was paying me to be her publicist, I should have been paying her. I went to the University of Tyra Banks. And even to this day, she knows how to make noise. She knows how to make, for better or worse, she knows how to make herself the conversation. And so sitting in the shadows watching someone like Tyra was like on a university. It was a great education. So then when you go to Dan Chloras and you are working with these really well-known celebrities, what was that like to, I would assume just to, it's so fast paced and you just sort of have to work on the fly. Yeah, yeah. I went to Dan Chloras. I was hired by Dan to start a beauty division. And my first client was Kate Spade Beauty, Kate had launched a beauty division. And then I had the essay, Lorda, as a brand I had Mac, I had Bobby Brown, so I had Joan Malone. So I developed this beauty division. And then Didi was the most difficult client that Dan had, not for the reasons that are now obvious. He was just a very difficult person. And so when Natalie, who was his lead publicist and his publicist for 20 years until very recently, when she would go on vacation, I'd have to like fill in or she was Australian. So she couldn't, it was almost impossible to call her. Nine in the morning here was midnight over there. And so Didi needed a babysitter for like two or three weeks. And I did not volunteer for the role. I didn't want it. I didn't like him. I didn't know any of these music. He did not particularly like me either, but we sort of got stuck with each other for two weeks. And I ended up finding him charming. And that's a very controversial thing to say because of everything we know. But that explains why he got away with so much for so long. He was charming. He had charisma. He was funny. He was cheeky. If I was working late, he was the only client that ever gave me his car to take me home after it dropped to him. I obviously said, keep the car off and go home. So aside, Didi, that I had at Dan Cloris. And then when Natalie came back from her vacation, she took over again and I retracted into the background. She ultimately left the company to go and work for Maccos Metins. And I was hoping sort of Didi would find a new publicist or go to PMK or get one of these other agencies. And he remembered me from those two or three weeks. And he said, I want shoes and I'd account Didi's publicist, which was like the odd couple, but he also helped me become the mayor of New York because you couldn't get to Didi without getting to me. And it was the first time I ever felt the power of a celebrity spotlight. And it was intoxicating. I wrote this up head with a Hollywood report, I say, and I didn't see anything or did I choose not to see anything because I was so intoxicated with the fame. He was the first celebrity that I worked with that I totally now understood, understand what it's to be star-struck. I was in awe of him. And when you say that, is it just simply like anything that they want, they can make happen? Yeah, pretty much, but they're really clever ones, only ask for stuff that's really exciting. Tickets to the Met Ball. I want to be on the cover of GQ. I want to get a Dolce Ring of Anna's Fashion Show. I want to get a reservation at Nobu. And when you called and you worked with Didi, the answer was normal, yes. In fact, it was always yes. And I've never had that happen, not in my life. I was so used to know. I get 100 knows a day. And first time when I was working with Didi, the doors, the keys to the city really opened up. I was in meetings with Anna Winter. I was in meetings with the Lord of Family. I was in meetings. He had a clothing line. So I'd get a maces within and would be whisked up to the executive suite. It's the same maces that I applied for a job at 20 years earlier and couldn't get. I'm now sitting with Mr. Macy in the executive suite talking about Didi's clothing line. He gave me, I traveled the world with him. He had a private plane that I'd fly. I was on a plane once with Didi and Leonardo DiCaprio. Man, he's working from Burmigan. My head was it was exploding and I was intoxicated by it. I can say honestly, I didn't see anything. And I thought about this a lot. There was lots of red flags. There was lots of stuff that made me uncomfortable. When you walk into Didi's house to have to walk through a metal detector, that's not a good thing. That's not normal. When you go up into his living room and he has a professional money counting machine as if he came from a bank. That's a little odd too. So there was lots of odd stuff. The sexual stuff though, I don't know if it changed after I left him. Remember I was with him 20 years ago or if he kept it better hidden. But when I was with him, he was dating J.Lo. It wasn't this era of freak off yet. That I think. I don't want to say any believe here at first. I almost didn't believe it until I saw the cast of it again. That changed everything. Well then you think about Hugh Hefner. I mean, Jenny McCarthy told me I didn't see anything. I think it was because that was the period when she was married to Kimberly. It's so interesting because you feel like when I see Merrill Street and Big Sanabritus saying they never do about Harvey, I was like, oh, lies. You must have known. You must have known. Now, because I'm walking in these shoes, I believe it. I did not know. No, no. Did I choose not to know because of the success and the power and the money and yeah, maybe. But even if I took off my rose colored glasses, I never saw the freak off. So I never saw sex groups. I think that the myth wicks did. And I'm not defending him here. He's a monster. But the myth with him was he had these huge orgies of hundreds of people at white parties. And now we know through the trial, it was him, a male sex worker, Cassie and a tripod. It was very, very small. It was very, very contained. And in the world of gossip, which I live in now, that's how you keep stories secret. When too many people find out that's when they get out, Taylor Swift is so good at keeping her secret secret because her inner circles are really smaller. I said to my friends, it's like dropping a peg pebble into a pond and you have a report. Find the fifth or the fourth, fifth or the sixth, the ritual. I'm not the first two reports. By the time it reaches me, the story's been out till at least percolate in a couple of weeks. That inner circles are really important because it's not who you tell. If you were famous, it's not who you tell, it's who they tell. That's the secret of gossip. You could tell five best friends, good for you, that's your life. You should enjoy your life. And if you're dating somebody, you have great news, you're going to tell your mates, you should. Celebrity should do that. It's who they tell. That's the problem. Not who you tell. So in your experience, is there with that amount of success, have you witnessed people becoming more and more paranoid because that circle needs to get quite small in order to protect the real truth of their life? Yeah, fame's a really ugly drug and people that experience fame on the level of a J-Lo of an Alicia Key is people that really hit the big time. You worry about them, but I do believe to the fame doesn't change you. I think it exposes who you really are. And so I think if you've got a solid background, you're going to be okay. You might get a little wobbly stuff might happen and you might do stuff that you regret. But overall, the troubled people are troubled and the people that are solid are solid. Fame and money definitely has an impact. It changes the emphasis, but I don't think it changes the people that I know who are stinkers now were stinkers before they were famous. And I just think of the real housewives. Like the ones that are the most successful and the most awful people to meet in real life. And this is the dilemma that Bravo has. What makes excellent TV's make terrible employees. And they are employees. And so I think Andy's figuring this out now with all the lawsuits and stuff. But eventually they're going to bite you for a long time. Bethany was sort of his best friend, not just the housewives. She broke her room. She was the only one in that group in that franchise that got together with Christmas party. Every year Andy has a Christmas party in New York. She was the only one that became friends to Sarah Jessica with Kelly Ripper. He keeps then separate from his private lives. He let Bethany in and so when she bit him, it really, really hard. However, it was inevitable that the person who is willing to do what they do on television will eventually buy you two. And so he got bit by a monster that he created. Also with the housewives, they're kind of an interesting archetype because I think a lot of them were the second banana to a spouse and then to get this amount of fame at this point of their life when they're trying to pivot and sort of establish their own power can be a really difficult thing to watch, play out in real time. Yeah, you see so many of them get divorced. I remember how happy Luanne was with the count and then it was clear when that show started, it wasn't going to work. Ramona or enough happened, seemed really happy in the beginning and that didn't work at either. And I wouldn't do a vaguel's eye and if Bobby rest his soul hadn't passed away, I wouldn't just be able to still be together to get. It's a real tricky thing isn't it? I did a pilot for a reality show and it was very clear within 20 minutes. It wasn't in my DNA and I'm not being a snob of Adi, I'm not saying I'm too good for it. No, I really wanted to do it. I wanted that money. I knew that I could use that fame to help promote my podcast and my books and all my other stuff. But it's just not in my DNA and I think that's in life what you've got to accept. When I had my morning show on VH1, I'd be like, "Oh, I'm going to do that." I'd bully the friend into mine to join in the cast. She wanted to do it and I realized it's not her dream, it's my dream. And I'd put my dream on her and she never did it and she was never comfortable on camera and I remember saying to her one day, "Then don't do this anymore. Go and find your happiness just because I want it, doesn't mean you want it." And I've really learnt that lesson. I think I would like all the rewards of being on reality TV but I don't want to do the work. I would love to have a six pack of ham but I know the work that was going into that. I'd say, "No, I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it." I know if I stopped eating dessert, I stopped drinking or into the gym by six days a week. I could have a six pack of ham. It's not as hard as you think. I don't want it. I want the trouble. I want the vodka. I thought I'd have high women's stuff. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I saw a picture today of all of the women that were participating in the Real Housewives, Ultimate Adventure or whatever and just looking through each woman and seeing there's such a different version of who they were when we first saw them on TV and you're right. You make a certain deal with the devil in order to have the success for all of that time. They do. They do. That's how I first discovered you through all your reality. It's a fascinating genre of physics. It really is exciting to the world at large. I still love it. I do. I don't know if I enjoy it quite as much as I did when I was 10 years ago or 15 years ago when it first arrived and it was so fresh and sparkly. There's a darkness to it now and a side of it that is impossible to pretend in. It's my journey with Diddy. There's a darkness and you just don't see it in the moment and now 10 years later you really, really do. I wonder what will be next. It seems now that my friends, people I know in TV are pivoting towards game shows. They want quiz shows. They want game shows. Then thankfully, and it's good for me with writing novels now, Netflix wants books. Netflix are buying books to turn into miniseries. I think how well hidden right? Library has done that eight part hockey, um, a moratite shirt. And you know, that's what now I think I think a lot of streamers are really looking for the next gen library. Right. Well, you worked it, Milly with Jessica, Simpson and J.Lo. What did you learn from working with each of them? I mean, they're so unique in their own way. They are, but they're both driven. So what celebrities having common is never talent. It's the drive. They have that drive, J.Lo's a machine. Jennifer would get up earlier than anybody should work harder than anybody. She knows she's not the best singer. She knows she's not the best dancer. She knows that she has to really work hard to keep that look now that she's not 30, 40 years old anymore. The discipline around Jennifer. I used to refer to Jennifer Lopez as an athlete. She was an Olympian athlete. I went to the gym with her once. After 20 minutes, I was done. Two hours later, she is on that trip. She's working at she's pulling weights. She doesn't do that because she was showing off to me. She does that because she wants to be J.Lo. And that's the price of being J.Lo and she's happy to pay it. I would not be willing to pay that price. I've been with her at events. I've never seen her drink alcohol. I've never seen her have chocolate cake. I'm not saying she doesn't spruge and she does. But it's not her life who's being Jennifer Lopez. As a friend of mine said, who still works with her. Jennifer's obby is Jennifer. That's all she does. When you're that successful, you need to be a 24 hour brand. She wakes up and thinks about J.Lo. She has breakfast and things about J.Lo. She goes to sleep and things about the tree is the machine. Jessica Simpson's different. And that's why Jessica's career is in a different place. I would rather be Jessica Simpson of all the big stars that I worked with than I was around. Jessica is my favorite. She's adorable. She's funny. She's quirky. She's in on the joke. She always lacks at herself first, which makes it impossible to make fun of her. She's incredibly generous. And there's just something about her that is so real. And that's why she's probably not working that much now because she's not willing to sacrifice all the things you have to do to still be at the top of your game. I think she's happy. I hope she's happy. She has her children. Her marriage has just ended. But she was fun. If you looked around your office and said, who do you want me to go for a drink? My office was celebrities. My role as ex was celebrities. I'd always pick Jessica. I looked forward to Jessica Simpson coming to town. And she was the closest I got to being like a girlfriend, to being a friend. I would go to her hotel. And we're sitting at her hotel and watch movies with all the room service. We're gig old. Good person. Really just a good, good person. Yeah, there seems to be a real humanity to her. Sweet. Yeah, there's a sweetness to her. And the fact she can laugh at herself too is really fun. Like she-- she knows how silly she can be. And she's seen on the deck. So you are with all of these people. And of course, you're gathering all of these stories and unpaid attention to all the little picadillos, which I appreciate. And salute. And of course, you would have to write a book because I'm certain there are many times throughout the week where you're like, you just can't make this stuff up. You can't make it up. The first draft of this novel, it was my editor. I just don't think that happened. No, you're like, I don't know. It really did happen. It was fun changing names because at first, I was going to write a book where I named names. And sort of almost be like, I guess, an autobiography, but me writing it. And it locked me into the truth. And when you're writing novels, the truth can be very dangerous. Having a background in this is all I needed. I know these stories. It's like if I open a pair. I was on GMA a couple of weeks going in my book. And I almost had to prepare it. I just became a machine of speaking out facts. This morning when I sat down with you, I didn't prepare that much. I knew we were going to chat and be human. And so this novel, once I stopped trying to tell other people's stories and tell the story I want to tell, it became much easier. I knew I got the background. I knew I got the setting. I knew I got the morning show. I knew I got celebrity gossip. I had to get four characters. I had to come up with four very distinct people who you like. And you root for different reasons. One of them is awful. And she's my favorite character. She's just so me. And she makes me laugh out loud when I read my own book. And then there's another character that's an underdog. There's a woman that's really optimistic. There's one that's really skeptical. And I think when you put four very different people into a novel, it turns out great. And you can only do that if it's a work novel. Because in real life, these four people would not be friends. A day novel worked together on a morning show. They were so different. That's the problem with sex in the city, isn't it? I love sex in the city. But those four would not be friends. They just wouldn't all be friends. If they all worked together at a TV show or a podcast, then they'd have to or an office or a band. Or the real lives. Yeah, they'd have to sort of become friends. And so I knew that I'd got the setting. And then I had to come up with the characters. And then I did my work. I took writing classes. I went back to school. I took creative writing classes. I'm lucky enough to have a few friends who are authors. And I picked that brain. And I had a really good editor. And this turned out really, really well because I did the work. It wasn't easy. How does it feel to be at a place right now? I'm assuming maybe even surprising that this may not have been what you had expected to-- the chapter to be in. But it's such a blessing. So what does it feel like to have a book that's so successful? Do you kick yourself that you didn't start writing earlier? No, because I couldn't have done it before. I have a real big believer in the process. And friends of mine who want to be on TV and ask me to book them on the big shows, as I'll do your favor, I won't. You have to start at the beginning. Remember one of my clients was actually Simpson. And her first live television show was Not New York One. There's not a local channel. It was SNL. Anyway, wrong. And she didn't have the skills to deal with that. I've got the skills now to deal with problems. And when there's a problem in the book when a character doesn't make sense, I've now got the skills and the life experience. So I'm really happy. happening now in this moment and really grateful for it. My entire life I was the bee list. I was never a list. When I was a gossip columnist I was in the shadow of Perez Hilton. He was the star not me. When I was a publicist I was in the shadow of Pat King's leaf. PMK. Right. It was not about me. When I was with a big celebrity like a JLo, it wasn't the Rob Shooter story. It was the Jennifer story. I was attached to her. So this is the first time of the youngest of five kids. This is the first time in my life. It's my moment. It's mine. And I'm grabbing it and I'm enjoying it. Every single second of it. I'm not wasting. I have a book of events tonight. I've been asked to do a signing tonight. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm not nervous. I'm not going to be nervous. I refuse to be nervous. When I feel the blood of Ryze, I keep saying to yourself, it's not nervous. It's excitement. That the same sort of feeling. And so I'm going to really enjoy this and it might not last long. It might never come again. And I'm okay with that too. But in this moment it's really nice. I don't I'm not reading the feedback. I'm not reading reviews. I probably learned from celebrities that you said. Right. I'm told that it's just came out on Vanity Fair. Apparently, Vanity Fair has just posted a profile on me. I'm not going to read it. Now, why would you? Not doing it. Yeah. I think that's a good. Protect your piece. So I know that you're writing more. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Oh, yeah. So I got another book coming out in November. So because this one sold so well, the publisher was quick to sign me up for a second book. And I always say yes because I don't believe that the other chance is going to come. I got an opportunity to come as I grab it. I don't sit with, oh, and I'm pretty, I'm very loyal person. I like great people. Could now I'm successful, but I go to a big fancy publisher and make a lot of money in an event. Yes, I probably could. But this guy took a chance on me when nobody else would. So I'm not leaving him. My second book is with the same publisher, Postal Press Anthony Zakari. I love both of them. And it's going to be a royal book. So I used to work Princess Michael of Kate. And so when I go on telling you, just show us, I know royals because I got a paycheck. I was on the wings of staff. Like, I didn't just meet them. I worked for them. I emailed with them. I know the apparatus of the palace. So I'm going to use that as a backdrop. And I'm going to set it 15, 20 years in the future. And who's on the throne is going to surprise you? It's not William. It's not Kate. Is Charlotte? It might be somebody from Monticee to them. Oh, wow. Oh, nice. Through a few tricks have been an author, through a real tragic disaster, and through a few applications, a few people not wanting the job, the crown rests on some little girl's head. And it's going to be called Queen Elizabeth III. Oh, my God. But you know what? Stranger Things have happened. We have no idea. You know what I mean? The age of things have happened. I stole it from there as a play 10, 15 years ago called King Charles III. He was still the Prince of Wales. And the place started with the death of Queen Elizabeth. People shocked in the theatre. And then they did the reign of King Charles III. And I was like, what will the monarchy be in 15 years? What will it be? What happens if Charlotte and Louis, what happens if George doesn't want to be King? What happens if he abdicates who becomes the next in lion? And I got it down to Lillibut. And so Lillibut is this little adorable, she's at now 20 years old. Really sort of tomboy in California becomes the queen of England. And then she's like, I'm going to ask her. At her coronation, what do you want to be called? She says Queen Elizabeth. Holy. That's pretty good. That's good. I'm not kidding you. That's really good. By the way, can they make that into a TV series? I want that too. You better believe it. I write the piece. I can read a lot. But as I said, I read all the trashy magazines that I still do. And I love them. I've watched a lot of TV. So every episode of my every chapter of my books are like an episode. And they end with a very dramatic, like it ends as if it's an hour. I used to watch Dynasty and Dallas. I loved the glamour. But I loved every episode ended in such a dramatic way. Way too much. Every chapter ends with that. I'm happy. I'm happy that I'm my 15, 18 chapters. I'm happy like an episode of TV. Well, tell everybody where they can get the book, where they can follow you. Amazon's the place. Go to Amazon. I don't want to give Jeff Bezos a Norris and just any more money. But I'm afraid of here I am. Amazon.com is where 90% of the books are sold. If you go to Amazon, it started with the whisper Rob Shooter. And you'll get it tomorrow. They can get it you really, really fast. We were lucky enough that the first couple of weeks we sold so well. There's a little bit of a waiting list. But now that backorder has been fulfilled. And so yeah, if you go on Amazon today, you'll get the books. Tomorrow you can read it this weekend. I hope you like it. And also I would like to say your sub stack is a must read. I get maybe three emails a day. And I love it. It feels like you're going to you're almost you're getting gossip alerts. Yeah, it's like a piece of candy. My friend's my friend Lauren Callaghan at the Daily Mail said, it's just like a little piece of candy. It's really short. And I'm doing something that sub stack isn't really set up for today. And you can break the rules. Sub stack is about really serious writers. The tea the browns who write three thousand words. The sort of stories you might read in GQ or Esquire magazine or maybe Vanity Fair. I'm not interested in that. I'm giving you two hundred word items three times a day. One in the morning, one around noon, one at seven o'clock. And you can read it in less than four minutes. And it's just delicious breaking to liberally gossip. That's not even nice. I love it. I love it. I'm so grateful for your time. I love doing this. Well, she'll do it again soon. I pray the way Elizabeth comes out. You're going to send you a call. Oh, without quite yet. Please, please, please, of course, of course. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. I want to thank my great guest Rob Shooter and remind you to make sure that you click subscribe. Please leave a five star review. Join the Facebook group reality life with K K C. You can get my weekly what to watch list, which is also on sub stack, just like Rob's by going to k k c dot sub stack dot com. And then also check out the bonus episodes on Apple podcast and on patreon at p at r e o n dot com back slash k k c and follow me on social media. I'm on Instagram at at k k c c a tick tock it's k k c twitter threads and blue sky at at k k c. Check back tomorrow for an all new episode. (drumming) - Hey!