EP #159: Inside “Loveable”: Amber Rae on the Courage to Let Go & Love Freely

Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host, Stella Stephanopolis, and this week I had a very raw and vulnerable conversation with Amber Rae, who started her career in Silicon Valley as now a bestselling author and is the founder of the feelings journal, which is a powerful tool designed to transform the way that you connect with and navigate your emotions. She is also the author of her most recent upcoming memoir called "Levable," which came out two days ago on August 5th. "Levable" tells the story of Amber leaving her husband for another man, and during a sexless and lonely marriage, battling out her all addiction, surviving abuse from her stepfather, struggling with an eating disorder and more. And truly, this book is a fearless exploration of identity, self-worth, and the courage to reclaim your life, and what it means to truly be "Levable." And so in this episode, we explore the steps that Amber took to truly live in alignment, and the courage that it takes to step out of an experience that no longer feels good, and to give yourself the permission to lean into what feels right for you in the moment. I really appreciate her honesty and her vulnerability, and it was truly a pleasure having Amber on the show. I am so excited for you all to listen to this episode, but before we dive in, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform that you prefer. Hi, Amber. Thank you so much for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. It is so wonderful having you here. Thank you, Brahmine. I am really excited to talk about your upcoming memoir, "Levable" today, and to really dive into some of the topics that are central to the book and to your story. But before we dive into all of that, I would love for you to share a little bit with my listeners about your journey and kind of your story, your trajectory from being in the corporate space to then pivoting into entrepreneurship and coaching and speaking and all of the amazing things that you do today, because I think that you have a really unique career path, and I would love to hear how you came into what you're doing now and becoming a writer. Yeah, it was entirely accidental. I'll say that. I never thought, oh, I want to be an author one day. I want to speak on stages. I just don't even know if I could have imagined that possibility, but what always drove me was following curiosity. And so curiosity originally took me, I worked for Apple throughout college and was very into building computers as a kid, and I had an online magazine when I was 11. I was just kind of really into both spreading ideas and sharing information, but how technology was made. So that took me to Silicon Valley. And I worked with several startups, and I was in really like the startup heyday, Twitter had six employees and was next door to me. I was working at a company that was kind of like Facebook for the enterprise. I was looking to make a career move interviewing with Facebook and Google, and just have this nine feeling of kind of this is not when I thought this was going to be, and this might not be my life, even though I had this imagination of what tech in Silicon Valley would be. I found myself a little disappointed or even heartbroken by the disconnect I felt around what technology could be and what some of the leadership like where it was going. And so, you know, I kind of impulsively, but very also intuitively, I had this nine sensation that like I needed to leave San Francisco for whatever reason and move to New York. And I could not shake this like it's time to go. You have to go to New York. And I had never been to New York. And I did not know why I needed to go to New York, but I knew that the voice was very clear. And so I thought about it for some time. And finally I had a conversation with a friend, his name's on my goop, he had started a he had a startup called photo Joe Joe, and he was like creating this online community for photographers. But I sat in front of him and I was like I had those calls go to New York. I have to go and he's like, okay, so go tomorrow. And I was like, well, that's crazy. I have a job and he's like, he's a quit. And I was like, but I don't really have much savings. He's a great, it's a better story. And I was like, yeah, but like, I don't really know anyone there. He's like, I have some friends. I'll introduce you. And just like every reason to not go, he challenged. And so after that conversation, I booked a flight 48 hours later. I put in my notice and I basically quit my job. So my vlog was he moved from San Francisco to New York in 48 hours. So that's incredibly courageous. Like, let's just pause there. Do you reflect back on that time and think to yourself, what was I thinking? Like what actually really compelled me to be so bold? And within 48 hours, move across the country. Like clearly it worked out. So now in hindsight, like, maybe you can look back and be like, okay, that was the right choice. But making a big leap of faith like that takes a lot of inner trust. How did you come back to that intuition and know, like, this was the right choice for you to make? You know, when I was making the decision, I felt an enormous sense of relief and enormous sense of like, there was a peacefulness that like took over that had me know, oh, this is right. The panic, the anxiety, the fear that like questioning was when I was in it when I was like at this job and company that perhaps wasn't right for me that when I was interviewing the Facebook and I like felt the tension in my chest and like my shoulders caving in and having like, I was like, this is what I should do. What looks good on paper. What will make me appear successful to others. But my body was like, hell, no, this is not for you. And the scariest part was that I didn't actually know what was right for me. I only at that point had clarity. I was like, what wasn't the right fit. And so, you know, I think the harder part was the when I was in the question but when I made that decision, there was a sense of use that took over from that point forward. There was just like, it was like, my knowing and myself trust and like something, I mean, something took over and that just it was like, I had never at that moment in my life. I was, I don't know, 23 years old. I had never yet felt so free. Wow. That's a really interesting point because we are often pulled in so many directions because we feel like we should be doing something or another thing. And the more that we listen to the show, the further we stray away from like what we actually want to do and we know to be is right for us. It's so easy to get caught up in what we think we should be doing or what we think other people think we should be doing. And, you know, you bring up a good point about once you make the decision, feeling a sense of use and calmness is like a metric of success for following what feels right because when we live in flow, it's like there's less of that reactivity. Like the things that are right for us don't actually feel as like cumbersome or anxiety inducing. But oftentimes the choice that we have to make to get towards the right decision, like the build up to that is very anxiety inducing. Like it gives us those feelings of fear. So it's like once you make the choice that's aligned with you, the fear kind of disseminates, it dissolves a bit. Yeah. I remember I had read at the time. I was reading The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron and she talks about Joseph Campbell. She mentions in the book and how when you align with your right path, there will be a thousand helping hands. And I remember being like, that sounds nice and scary. Yeah. But I actually really found that to be true of as soon as I made that choice, hear this person who was a stranger, the person who I was meeting him for the first time when he said, go, go, go, I have friends, I'll introduce you. And he did. He made three key introductions for me that ended up like opening so many doors in New York. And it was like one thing started clicking after another. And it really felt like, oh, I am now in alignment with my true path. When we talk about alignment, like that is such a loaded term. I was having this conversation yesterday with someone, like what it means to live in alignment with your values, with what you actually want in life. I think the hardest part is even getting clear on what you want. Like you mentioned earlier, just figuring out what do you want. It's like you're working from a blank canvas and it's so difficult. But when we really are in true alignment, you're exactly right. The things are flowing with ease, the synchronicities start to pop up. You know, you start to really unfold this beautiful path, but it is hard to get to that place of alignment. And you were young. You were 23 when you moved to New York. Yeah. Yeah. Walk us a little bit through kind of the thought process that you took at that time. When you were making that big leap of faith, and you had to place trust on your inner knowing that this was going to be right for you, that you were moving in alignment with what you actually wanted. What was going on in your mind at that time? I mean, in my mind was it was kind of knowing versus fear is what was going on because the voice for me in that moment, I mean, it was at go to New York. I mean, it was just like, it was so clear. There have been other moments in my life where it wasn't that clear, but in that moment, it was like the knowing is speaking. But of course, what was going through my mind was all the reasons why the knowing was crazy. And the knowing was unpredictable and unknown. And then, you know, the fear part of our brain hates the unknown because the unknown is scary and Fear wants to protect us and so you know anything meaningful or novel or interesting that we want to do in our lives That fear voice is gonna get louder and louder and louder and so it was kind of this fear versus knowing battle until I did make that decision And then you know in terms of alignment you're speaking about like I could I'm sure if I looked back we like these are my top five values and this decision is an alignment that these values But ultimately alignment to me is like am I listening to and trusting myself or not? Because I can think back to oh gosh that person I collaborated with that I had such a strong sensation of this person is not in alignment or this person is not in resonance or this person is not the person you're meant to be Collaborate with it and I knew it so clear as day, but I for whatever reason came it's myself Oh, but it might lead to you know I had my the rational fear part of my brain was speaking as to why it might be the right choice or I mean We're gonna get into it but like even my first marriage I'm married a person where I knew as clear as day walking down the aisle I don't know how long this is going to last like he's my best friend. He's probably not my person But that was at that time. I was too afraid to admit that to myself because of how that might disrupt my life That is so powerful what you just said you were too afraid to admit it to yourself Because of the fear of how I was gonna disrupt your life I think human beings are innately like we have this inner wisdom We kind of know things like just from the gecko when it pertains to our own life. We just have this inner knowing and So many things in life will cloud that someone gave me this analogy like when it's cloudy outside It's not like the sun disappeared There's just the clouds over it and the clouds just need to go away so the sun can emerge The sun is kind of like that inner knowing so when we are faced with like I don't know if I'm making the right choice This or that or the back and forth the indecisive like having this indecision. It's the clouds It's these other things. It's the sheds. It's how we perceive the fear of how things are gonna disrupt our life But when you start to remove all of that Can you sit with the sun behind it right like can you sit with what's really there and? I just wanted to pause there because I think a lot of people who are listening will resonate with that I know I definitely do the fear of actually listening to myself because I'm afraid How's this gonna change my life? It's gonna disrupt things I know to be true how things are operating right now Yeah, and like and you know sometimes is like things are good like they're fine Like they're good enough. Maybe I can like keep staying on this train I do I really like I'm kind of comfortable here. This feels safe in some ways You know, do I really want to blow all of that up for the chance of great or extraordinary or You know fully expressed or alive and what if I don't get that what if I? Make the decision to swap my life and actually ends up like blowing up in my face That was a fear of mine and not to come and scare here in others who are kind of at this choice point in whatever area of their lives This is a great segue into really the inspiration for your memoir loveable and I love how it's focused really on Relationships and learning how to cultivate more love for yourself because I think that this time period in our lives A lot of my listeners are in their 20s and their 30s like it's a very transformative time and a lot of the worth That we put on ourselves is kind of how we see other people value us and we place so much of our self-worth in our relationships And the people that we attract and it's so easy to get into the wrong relationships And it's so easy to get into relationships for the wrong reasons So I kind of want to like backtrack and start at the inception of loveable and I know it's inspired by this experience that you had of Ending a marriage that you you were in love with this person at one point in your life And then things shifted let's start there like walk us through your journey what inspired this Memoir and the entry point into deciding that you wanted to share these experiences and the lessons that you've learned With the broader world Yeah, yeah, so I four years ago while married met the person I knew I was supposed to be with and It was you know what we've been talking about knowing already It was as clear as day as like deep as knowing can be oh That's my person that's who I meant to spend my life with and of course that's insane You don't know that person you're married you are in a business with your you know like all of the fear and the voices and the People are gonna judge you and oh my god. You're a home right like how could you even Entertain the idea of someone else you're married, you know all of the shame all of the show that was all very loud But the sun Behind the clouds was I mean and in what's so funny is that how I met him I was I had left New York City during the pandemic and My ex and I we moved to Toto Santos and Baham, Mexico and we were building a land project So we had found these four acres on the sea and we were building this sanctuary for artists and creators and people to really disconnect Reconnect so in this space of quiet, which is something we were experiencing ourselves You can really hear yourself and what you create in that place of stillness that place of quiet And we wanted to create the or it was really you know a vision that I had and that I got my ex on board around and the vision Was true it was something that was meaningful to me But ultimately what was also going on is that I was desperately trying to find closeness with my husband and we had been together for nine years and We were you know great friends. We had a good time together Even like really good business associates and waves and inspiring each other and kind of Supporting each other in our career paths, but like we had no romantic relationship We didn't have a sexual relationship and that was from the beginning, but I you know We could be we can be very convincing with ourselves when we want things to work and so I convinced myself Oh, but you know you feel safe with them and he's your good friend You'll figure out the intimacy eventually or you'll get that closeness, you know eventually and here I was Thinking that if I wanted to business with him I would get that closeness. So he's my business partner He loves to work. He's always working So maybe if I work with him I will feel what I'm hoping to feel in this romantic Relationship and I hope I will feel the way that I imagine someone wants to feel in their marriage and that was yet Just like another attempt at trying to make it work and so I'm in that place and I mentioned the sun because We had just celebrated our two-year-winning anniversary the night before this moment I'm about to to share but we'd celebrate our two-year-winning anniversary and you know There's like champagne in the room and I like pop the court port to glasses and then you know my ex like falls asleep to the voice and And I'm like I'm literally like John Legend. He says as me so I'm just like John Legend is like giving a standing ovation to The singer and I was like I want that. I want them. I want affection like that I want you know I want to be seen and noticed like that was like my feeling in the moment I kind of had this moment of what the hell am I doing? How did I get here? And not even like how did I get here? Why have I let this be okay for so long? Like I have felt like I'm out in the world writing books and speaking on stages about like following your truth like what the actual fuck? You know like how have I like gotten so far away from the thing that I speak as my like the thing I'm here in this world to speak about like how have I oh my so disconnected from that in love? And it was the following day two people came over there potential investors in the project and their friend tags along and they arrived right as the sun was setting And as the sun was setting and glowing on their faces like it was the three of them walked toward me And the you know, I'm seeing the sun on their faces the entire moment slowed down for me And I was like why does it feel like time is slowing and I said hello to this woman And then I said hello to her partner and I turned to John and When I connected eyes with him that's when that feeling of hello again happened that knowing of like oh, it's you And so yeah, and that was the sun and then the clouds very quickly maybe in another life that's crazy So that was this life altering moment that kind of created across roads of was similar in my career I had this cross-heart moments in my career Am I gonna do the thing I think I should do and follow this all these steps that other people are gonna applaud me for and think is good I mean, am I gonna stay in this relationship where we have shared friends and everyone's gonna applaud me And I have kids with him and we like build this thing or am I gonna do the thing that is going to disrupt all of that But that is actually true. I mean what a powerful like imagery that you're even describing around Seeing John and being like wait something here feels different It's so hard to even communicate that to people because no one knows how you're feeling like it's your own lived experience And it's all invisible. It's all internal So to even be able to attempt to describe that to someone else Especially your acts at the time. I'm sure it was probably incredibly incredibly difficult. Do you Think that he had any sort of Hunter awareness or idea that you were just Starting to feel more and more disconnected as the years in the time past or was it kind of like out of the blue? I need to end this. How is that conflict? Yeah, you know, I mean We were in therapy, we were doing the workshops. We were like, I don't know how you don't have sex with your partner, barely ever, and think that the relationship is okay. He later reflected to me that we were both very in this story of our relationship, but not the reality of it. And so, I think at the time, it's funny, because that night, when they all left, I turned to him and I said, I just met a soulmate. I didn't even mean that as like, now I'm in a blow of our marriage and go be with him. I just, in that moment, was just like, my soul knows his soul. And, you know, it was just like a profound and deep connection, and was how I was relating to it in that moment. And I was like, I just met a soulmate, and he said, I know I saw that was beautiful to witness. So, I mean, it was like, you know, I don't think we need what that meant or what that was going to become, or what, you know, but it was acknowledged from the very beginning. It was John and I's connection was so palpable that it was hard not to say, like, wow, these two humans, like, really, there's some special energy between them. I mean, it's undeniable, the fact that he even picked up on it. And I'd love to hear kind of what a pivotal moment was for you when you had this breaking point or rather an inflection point in your life where you were like, this has to end. Was it that moment when you met John? Was it after that, like, how long did things progress until you hit the point and until you had an inflection point where you said, I need to take my life in my own hands and step into the courage of doing the hard thing. John was the wake up moment and he was the near because as soon as I met him, I could no longer lie to myself. I could no longer stay in the story of what our relationship was. It was like his presence all of a sudden, like, woke me up from a slumber. And I was like, okay, that looks like it'd be accurate about the state of our relationship and the reality of it. And so it was kind of like this domino where all of these truths that I had been repressing for the sake of staying and the sake of, you know, the only way I could stay is to convince myself that it wasn't as bad as it was. As all of those truths started coming online and as I, you know, called my best friend, like, oh my God, what about you? And she was like, it sounds like you're waking up to a lot of truths in reality is about you. You know, that was more the, like, what I could no longer unknow. It was like, once I knew I couldn't unknow what I had realized. And so yes, it was him or his presence, but ultimately because there was a moment where, you know, my mom asked me, she said, if it doesn't work out with John, would you stay with your ex? And I was like, no, absolutely not. I like would never go back to my ex at this point. And then she said, what the hell are you doing? Get your shit and go. You know, because she was like, at this point, it wasn't about John or my ex husband. It was about me. And it was about what was true for me. So like, yes, these were people outside of me helping people can be mirrors, wake us up to who we truly are and what we truly want. But it was that moment that basically had me stop lying to myself. And then once I stopped lying to myself, I just like, could not. It was like, I, it is honestly, I felt like I was like Cinderella or like not Cinderella. It's no white. I'm like, or which is the one that's like a sleep and then she's like me and me and you're whatever. One of those, one of the, the princesses, I mean, it is so true. Like once you have a moment where your consciousness is expanded and you've woken up, you cannot go back. Like once you have that awareness, you just can't go back. And it is, I found harder to be honest with the people we love the most because there's fear of disappointing them. So how did you navigate that conversation, the series of conversations? How did you even initiate that with your acts and be truthful? Because I'm sure that there was probably fear that you held on to around saying, I don't know exactly how you phrased it to him, but essentially along the lines of, I've fallen out of love with you out of this relationship. I can't stay here anymore. How do we even go about acknowledging that and communicating it to someone that you do hold a lot of love for? Right? You know, in that moment, you did hold a lot of love for him. How do you say those hard truths? That was the thing that kept me there more than anything was the fear of hurting him and letting people down and disappointing others. You know, and it wasn't the first time him and I had had a conversation. Like I, like, they were a series of conversations of our relationship where it was like, wait, maybe this isn't, and I would be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because what would come up for me is, oh, I feel so bad. I can't leave. I feel bad. You know, he is good. And so I think the muscle I had to build, which I built through the experience was recognizing that I cannot disappoint others. I will have to disappoint others. So it's not at the cost of disappointing myself. And what I had to learn to tolerate was the discomfort of other people being hurt or disappointed or upset with me. And for that to be okay, for like, he can have his feelings or friends of ours who think I'm being reckless and crazy, they can have their feelings. They can feel how every they want to feel about it. And that's okay. As someone who like wanted to be liked or, you know, wanted approval or wanted, you know, wanted to be mad at me. That was a very uncomfortable position to sit with of like, not only are they mad at me, they're talking shit about me to people. And like, that sucks. But also like, I know who I am. And like, that's okay. It's also really difficult to engage in that conversation when you care so deeply about someone, but you're recognizing that for the sake of your own growth and for theirs as well, like doing them a service, you need to part ways. And it's really hard to be able to communicate that and to deliver the hard truths with love and compassion. That's really the premise of radical candor, like being open and honest and saying the hard things, but doing it all from a place of love. And there's one of two ways that the other person can receive this. They can either feel super attacked and take it incredibly personally and allow that to blow up a relationship or over time. Because of course it's going to hurt. Like these are hard conversations to have, but the other route is over time. They also, because they have so much love for you and for the other person, they recognize that they deserve to be with someone who is excited to be with them and who wants to treat them in the way that they deserve. And it is for both parties benefit to be in alignment with the people that are aligned with them. And you know, I'm curious like, did it take time for your ex to get there? What was that like navigating that conflict immediately when you were both working through oh God, like this is the reality now, we have to do something about it. How did you still continue to hold yourself to that standard of like acting from a place of love when you knew it was going to hurt the other person? Our situation was very unique in that once I knew I was falling in love with John, I was very transparent about it. And my ex also was not blind. So he felt it. He and like later said to me, I was falling about with him two in ways because like, so long story short, because I was like, oh John, I can't be with John in this lifetime. That's crazy. You know, you're an on that going to blow up everything. I was like, oh, I'll make him my design partner in this project. So I originally, so I first like brought him into collaborate with me on the project my ex and I were building. And the three of us actually had really powerful chemistry and like doors started opening and people wanted to like get on board. And so there was this like really actually special momentum with the three of us. And so once it was kind of named that what was happening in some way, my ex was like, this is actually kind of freeing for me because now like, he's meeting you emotionally and now I can like go get all my work done. Like so it was like this very like at first where like, is there some weird utopia where like I can be with John and like, I don't have to burn the house down. That was stage A of on that can disappoint or hurt anyone, but it was definitely, you know, that that didn't last very long. And so we moved in stages. It was just like, but I guess the commitment the whole time was just like honest, open-hearted transparency. The chips would fall where they may like, I didn't know what the outcome was going to be, but I knew that I was going to be honest and true in the process and communicate as compassionately as I could in that moment. Of course, I was so imperfect in so many ways and like, maybe could it like, should I have told him sooner, although I mean like the timeline of this was like weeks. So it was just like, I'm going to say what I know is true. And I don't have to be unkind of course. And I'm just going to trust that that is going to lead us where we need to go. And my friend, Aaron, who is kind of my like, she's one of my best friends and she was like, bear the entire time. And she just, she kept reminding that liberation is a two-way street. She's like, if you are dissatisfied in the relationship, then if you're not feeling met, there's no way that he satisfied in feeling met too. And so as much as like, I was abandoning myself, he of course had to be abandoning himself. Like we were both abandoning ourselves to be in the relationship. And so when I liberate, you know, I was the one to rip off the bandaid. I was the one who kind of like was like the liberating force. But then liberated him too. Exactly. It's like in a way giving permission for you both to be liberated and to kind of address the elephant in the room in a way, like makes it less scary once it's addressed. Like the scary thing is to let the things go on said because there's the fear of disappointing other people. Once you actually just say what's on your mind in a weird way, the fear kind of dissolves. And like one of the reasons why I love your story and even just the themes that we're talking about is because this has come up for me a lot in my own personal life, just navigating relationships, romantic and platonic. And what I've noticed for me is that it's historically been really difficult to prioritize my own needs. And to be honest about wanting something different than the way things currently are operating because of the fear of either disappointing the person, making them be less interested in me not being liked. If I'm honest and I've had to really work on rewiring my brain to instead of like fearing the conversation because I'm afraid that the outcome will result in that person not liking me, not indexing so much on that and rather focusing on giving myself the skill sets and reps to showcasing that it's actually safe to speak my mind. Like learning how to like calm my nervous system and be like Stella, it's okay to initiate a hard conversation. You're going to be fine. And like you can't catastrophize this into a worst case scenario because you don't even know what the outcome is going to be like or rather like why do you care so much Stella about how this person perceives you if you're just speaking your mind and you're just staying true to yourself. And I think for me a lot of it was like the fear of losing an experience with someone that drove me to just stay small and just to stay quiet. And I feel like so many women in particular really struggle with this. Making themselves feel small or being afraid to express their needs and communicate their boundaries because it's like this fear of losing someone. Losing love. It's really tough to do but I do believe that the more that we can practice staying true to ourselves every day and honoring that the better you're able to create trust within yourself. It's all about making sure our nervous system. It's like all about the nervous system and what the nervous system needs to feel safe enough. It's like trusting yourself is basically just like building nervous system regulation. So meaning like back when I was walking down the aisle and I thought to myself I don't know how long this is going to last but at least we're going to throw a really good party. That could have been the moment someone who were like why didn't you just end it then you know and it's like because my nervous system could not tolerate telling my 70 guests who flew to Morocco that the wedding wasn't happening and I couldn't face his family who you know I cared for and they're wonderful people. How upset they were going to be. You know my nervous system could not tolerate what that decision would require me at that moment in my life. And so you know we often is like trust yourself trust yourself and it's like what are the small ways you can make your nervous system feel safe? What are the small daily decisions that can actually like oh okay this is trusting myself is safe. Trusting myself is good. Taking this risk actually like paid off and was meaningful to me and like yeah maybe that person's a little annoyed or upset but I honored myself and I like myself more. Not do they like me but I'm liking myself more because I'm following through all my word. I'm speaking up when it feels scary. I'm expressing my needs. You know it's like we get the small reps then build into a life where we can be self-honoring. Absolutely the small reps add up over time and I do think that the more that you practice honoring your needs communicating your boundaries you're acting in ways that respect yourself because you're showing yourself oh what I need is valuable. It should carry as much weight as what the other person needs. That's I think where I've had pitfalls in the past is feeling like okay like this is what I need but it's fine. I'm just not going to ask for it and I hate to say this but like I really do believe that a lot of the times people fall into things that are not an alignment for them because they allow for it to happen. Like we often say oh well I was in a situation ship with this person or this person didn't respect me in this way and I was being played and whatever the language might be but it's like why don't we pause in those moments and reflect on times that we didn't hold ourselves accountable to addressing things that weren't feeling good for us. Why did we allow for this behavior to keep going on and on and on? Why did we enable? How did we enable that? And oftentimes we're not even doing it consciously. Oftentimes we're doing it unconsciously because it's coming again from that place of fear. So I love that you talk about this this point around nervous system regulation because you're signaling to yourself that you're safe and that you're okay and you'll be fine. I want to go back also to kind of just the inception story of how you met your acts and you know you were together for a long time during that that process of getting to know him and then deciding that you were going to get married and just kind of like thinking about the progression of your relationship. What at that time did you feel like really compelled you to want to be with him? In a lot of ways he felt familiar. You know, it was 26 years old when we met and he was so charming and gregarious and warm and so part of it was that I actually like I was like oh he's a safe landing place. What you were just talking about before around like accountability and all that and speaking needs and and setting boundaries and all that and like what was coming up for me when you were sharing that was like the reason we don't do that is because like for me growing up I didn't learn it was safe to have emotional needs. I learned that if I set a boundary there would be consequences. I learned that if I told my mom how I was really feeling that that would destabilize her and then I would be taking care of her emotions. And so oftentimes why is it so hard to tell this like new friend or like set a boundary with this new friend. It's not really the new friend. It's the mom who had you know or the caregiver or the person from our past who had some sort of reaction or response that made us think oh it's not safe for me to like authentically express myself. All that to say like going into it with my ex he was a good guy and like initially it was like oh wow I actually do feel emotionally safe here. But in a lot of ways like his ways of being and his felt familiar and reminded me of certain people growing up and so that familiarity was again something that I perceived to be as safe and you know he was a good person. But I think you know with the sexual part of the relationship not being there from the very beginning I lost my father when I was young and had a stepfather that was not a very kind person. And so my relationships and the modeling that I saw around love was that like desire is not safe and you know my mom really wanted you know and called my father her soulmate even though he left us and was abusive in many ways and abuse drugs and alcohol and like was not you know she would always say like use the great love of my life but we were too young and dumb. And I would always be like mom just the great love of your life like leave you and me like just the great love of your life like have an affair and like go and not tell you where he is like I'm confused by your whole idea of the great love of your life and so you know I think growing up like push down desire because desire if I really desire this person they will leave me and so I think when I first met him I got the feeling of oh he won't leave me he's safe and so I can actually relax here. I don't have to be hyper vigilant I don't have to be monitoring I don't have to be in my anxiety around whether or not I'm good enough like he feels safe he won't leave and so I think it was that wounding that had me stay in the dynamic and allow and like again like okay well maybe I don't want to jump his bones but again like he's not going to leave me so maybe like I'm going to prioritize not re-experiencing the pain of abandonment like that is more painful than not having this actual relationship that was not conscious for me at the time that's like what I lost its therapy and unpacking allowed me to like no good I'll like how the hell did I let that happen it's like oh all of these wounds I was just like trying to protect myself trying to stay safe so that was the origins there. Well you know what's interesting at that time in your life you probably needed that entire journey to get to this awareness to bring you to someone like John because otherwise do you think you would have if you would have met John at that time would you have felt that kind of soul connection that you described. I mean who knows but I imagine I would not have felt I imagine that I would have been so in anxiety around my enoughness and the loveability and all of that that I wouldn't have been able no I was like not prepared to meet him yet and in some ways you know the safety of the relationship with my ex ended up being very powerful for my career because I wasn't in that anxious like you know from attachment theory perspective anxious attachment like that wasn't so like present for me like I was just like oh he's safe he's not going to leave no he's not yet at least not leave in the traditional sense of leaving because you know my friends my argument well he wasn't really a emotionally present you know but that allowed me to be very real. taking a bold in my career. And I love that spin that you put on it too because that is looking back on that time in your life still from a place of so much love and like gratitude too. I think that we have these judgments around people who get into relationships and then they break up or like you get married and then you're divorced and there's like a negative connotation around an X. But at that time in your life they likely came in at the right time to teach you something, right? And like thinking about how this person not only impacted you personally but professionally has opened up so much awareness to you in your life and is in a way helped you heal or at least been a catalyst towards this healing journey is so incredibly special. And I know that you talk about how the title of Loveable has the double meaning for you knowing that you're loveable and being able to love freely. And I think that's so powerful. Can you talk a little bit more about that double meaning and how that's showing up for you in your life? Yeah, yeah. I spelled the book Loves Abel, L-O-V-A-B-L-E. So it's lovable of course. And I think so much of the arc of my story and my journey was like realizing like, oh, I am loveable and I don't need to do anything or achieve anything or be a certain way in order to be worthy and deserving of love like knowing that. But then also realizing that and knowing that that makes me able to love so much more. Because when I am seeking or outward gazing or approval seeking, like if I'm showing up for someone because I want them to approve of me, that's not love coming from the truest place. You know, that's me trying to fill the void within myself. And so when I was able to really fill that void within myself and learn what, you know, it's like love yourself is so cliche, but it's also true. Like, it is kind of the whole thing. The whole thing is like, how do we love ourselves? And when we can fill our own cups, we're not looking outwardly to do that. And then we have so much more love to give. And so I found that like in that self-love journey, I didn't realize that like maybe the love I was giving was and maybe the love I was giving was loving a partner in the way that I wanted to be love, shelling up for them and like giving them words of affirmation and quality time. But what they really want is access to service, you know, because it's like, well, that's what I want. So I'm going to meet my, try and meet my own needs through you. So it's interesting that when you, you know, learning to love myself fully allowed me to give love more freely. That's so beautiful in the way that the person wants to be loved. Exactly. Because I think that that's where a lot of conflict comes into place where you are expressing love in a way that the other person can't receive it and vice versa. And I know to your point, it sounds so cliche, oh, love yourself first, a relationship will fall into your lap and you're not looking for it. And people always tell me this, and I use it so annoyed by it because I'd be like, but I already love myself or, you know, I'm not looking. And what I've come to realize, it's, you know, interesting for me to be behind the mic interviewing you on this, because I mean, I am, I am single. I have not had a serious committed relationship. Nowhere near close to marriage. Like I'm 25 for context. So like very different life stage for me at this age, then what you were experiencing at 26, right? So what I've come to learn in more recent times as I've dated people casually and just explored and met people who have also in a way felt like I've had a soulmate connection with them. Truly, like I've had people come into my life that have been direct mirrors to where I've needed to grow and expand and improve my life. I'm realizing that as much as I think I love myself, there is always more to do and there's always ways to improve and there's always ways to continuously fill up your own cup. And I think one of the hardest experiences as a single woman in New York City is feeling like you need to earn love or like the way that modern dating is set up is feeling like you need to change yourself or you need to do something different to get someone to choose you or to get someone to recognize you or to get someone to approach you or to want to be with you, right? Something that I've also come to learn is like someone can like you, but that doesn't mean that they want to be with you and invest in a relationship with you. And I used to get so hurt by that or I'd conflate the two. And now what I've realized is that it's okay. Like someone can like you and they can also not want to be in a relationship with you and it's up to you to decide, are you willing to tolerate that? Are you fine with that? And when we start to depersonalize these things, it's easier to move forward and to say, okay, thank you for serving up for me in this way in my life. It's not an alignment anymore and that's okay. Like to just be okay with it because then you realize, oh, I don't need to do anything different to be lovable. Like I can really just be myself and the right person at the right time is going to see that and is going to want to invest in that. And I want more women who are listening to this to like really soak that into because we start to live out of alignment when we feel like we need to change something about ourselves to please someone else or to make them feel like they should pick us. Doesn't really help us out in the end of the day. No, absolutely not. I love what you said there. It's like the key I found is the depersonalization. This is not about me. Like the soon is we cannot take it personally. I feel like that is like one of the greatest tickets to freedom. Yes. And when we live from a place of freedom and we feel free, we are just naturally happier or rather we can face the challenge in the adversity from a place of knowing that will be okay on the other end. And it's easier to be more receptive to joy. I believe I believe that to be true. I would love to hear from you, Amber as we kind of shift gears a little to more so the theme of this podcast, which is all about happiness and joy and finding things in life that bring you endorphins. You have such a powerful story and I can't wait for your book to come out in August. By the time we release this interview, it will be out for the world to read. I can't wait for that day to come. But I would love to hear from you how this experience in your life has made you rethink what it means to be happy. I think happiness before for me was really outward gazing. It was about achievement, about success, about doing the next thing, checking the next box, making things happen, being well received, being applauded. It was all like I was just like looking outward. Likes on a post, you know, it was, oh, I made a series of illustrations that went viral. Like, I was deriving happiness from what I was achieving. And I mean, even now the mother of an eight-month old who's like napping in the next door and woke up at one point in this nap. I'm like, you can't ask me got a rug down. But like happiness now is like not at all about what's happening out there. It's so much more about what's happening in here. And it's about like, do I feel peace in my days? Do I get to spend time with the people that I love? Do I find joy in how I get to spend my time? It's much more simple. It's like it's not about a result. Really, it's about the small simple practices but really the process in the journey and being able to find peace and peace in the every day. Prioritizing inner peace, I think, is so important. And the irony is that you actually get to more peace, inner peace, when you gather the courage to do the hard things. Like, you kind of have to do the hard things to prioritize your peace, which is ironic because you feel like, oh, let me just do the thing that brings me the immediate gratification. That's going to give me more peace immediately. That's not sustainable at all. Based off of everything we've been talking about this afternoon, I also really resonate with your your response right before we hopped on to do this interview. I was recording a tick talk and I was reflecting on how when I was in high school, I had these like limiting beliefs that I didn't feel smart enough and that all came from comparing myself to my peers. And so I didn't realize like the comparison mindset that I held so deeply when I was like 15 has transcended now 10 years later and has held me back from doing things from a place of accessing my full potential. And that was so focused on being like achievement oriented and outcome oriented and that wasn't really ever making me happy, but that's the way we are for better, for we're socialized, I think. So many of us, and not to say there's anything wrong with that, but it's about developing like a healthier relationship to your ambition and redefining what success means to you and then seeing how happiness interplays with all of it, I think is so fascinating. So I absolutely resonated with your response. And I would love to hear just as a follow on question to that. What are some strategies that you would offer my listeners to prioritizing inner peace? Like what are some practices or habits that you've implemented that has helped you stay grounded in that and focus on creating peace in your day to day? Yeah. I would say the first thing is to choose yourself first in the morning. This is a little hard for me now that I'm a mama of an eight-month-old because the first thing is nursing. Even after this moment when I finally, you know, I have a moment to myself in the day. How do I want to spend that time? So have the first thing that you do in the day be something that really energizes and aligns you. This used to before look like I would write before anything else, before I check to email, before I went on social media, before I allowed the inputs in the world to come into my orbit, I would pull out my journal and I would write. And that would just like get everything going for me. Now it's a walk in the morning with my husband and son. Like we do our morning walk, we get our morning coffee, and it is like the highlight of my day. I love it. It brings me joy. It clears my mind. It's funny. It's like a similar, I'm not putting pen to paper, but it is clearing my mind and getting ideas going for me. Yeah, just choose yourself first. Each day, I'd say, would be the first thing in terms of cultivating in our piece. The second way to cultivate in our piece would be to recognize this things that are taking away from your piece and addressing those. This is a, you know, more uncomfortable one, but can be still opening. So my husband and I, we just left LA, we were pushed out by the fires. Our house didn't burn down, but it got to the edge of our neighborhood. And we left because, you know, at that point, our son was three months old and just air quality. I wasn't willing to take any risks. We moved our stuff across the country and it turned out that we don't know exactly the how or the why, but there's mold on all of our stuff. And when we, here we are in a fresh apartment in New York, everything wreaked of mold. And we had this moment of like, okay, let's try and say everything. Let's wash everything. Let's take it to the directly. It's like, how do we keep all of our stuff? Like, oh my god, these, we've had these things for so long of this artwork, my entire wardrobe. And ultimately, it was taking away from our piece. It was making us insane. You know, we'd like walk in rooms and I started breaking out and rashes and I was having respiratory symptoms. My husband had already dealt with mold poisoning his life was having like all these symptoms come back up. And finally, like, the very difficult, but peaceful decision was to throw away everything that we owned. And like, that's, you know, that's like an extreme example of what was taking away our piece. Sometimes it's taking away our pieces, like not setting a boundary or not speaking up or not expressing a need. Sometimes it's throwing away everything that you will. Yeah. Something I like to think about is the like, edition by subtraction role. Sometimes you really need to clear space for new things to come in, which means you need to get rid of what you currently have, whether that is letting go of holding on to relationships or a job, whatever it could be for you. I mean, I recently moved apartments and I was like, I need to clear out my closet and genuinely use this as a mental shift to then figure out how do I curate pieces that make me feel good? Like, I don't want to just go shopping and buy things that I don't need. Let me get rid of the things I actually don't wear so that I can create space for putting in things that like light me up. So it's a similar logic, but obviously a different situation and your example is definitely very extreme. So I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm happy to hear that you really are on like a fresh new page in life now. Thank you. Thank you. That leads me to my third way of cultivating an orpiece, which is discernment. And I literally have going with the clothing and stuff metaphor. I have four dresses hanging in my closet right now. And I fucking love those four dresses. The item Marie Kano does is spark joy. Those four dresses spark joy. And so it's been really intentional about the choices that we make and having discernment around, does this feel aligned? Does this feel meaningful? Does this spark joy? Is this going to allow me being more of me? I think that daily discernment can create a great sense of peace and joy and happiness in our lives. Well, that's a beautiful transition into the final question that I have for you, which is a question that I ask every single guest on the show. And it's all about finding the things in life that make us happy. And I truly agree with you. We need discernment and intentionality with creating an environment, a routine that really lights us up and fills up our cup. So I would love to hear from you, Amber. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? What brings me endorphins is is walks going on these walks and just being outside. I'm back in New York City and being in the bustle of the city and living in Greenpoint and just being immersed in the neighborhood is just lighting the up in this really profound way. We were living in LA, but we were living in Tepanga Canyon, which is super isolated and this gorgeous nature and gorgeous canyons, but it was actually intensely isolating with a baby. I couldn't walk to a cafe. So on Thursday nights, the local wine spot has free wine tastings. And I like put my son in my carrier and I like going and we like taste wine and everything. He's meeting people in the neighborhood and we go on these morning coffee walks and we it's I guess what's giving me endorphins is like being back in a vibrant place that is walkable that I can like engage with the world and through engaging with the world, my son gets to engage with me. And it's where we have these like fantastical adventures every day. And just like experiencing the way the world sees him and reflects him back. He's like such a smiley. He's just like he loves the world and he loves people. And so being able to see the world through his eyes is like really profound and meaningful and it's definitely giving me endorphins. Oh, that's so beautiful. I mean talk about a culture shock from Tepanga Canyon to Greenpoint, like truly that is couldn't be more opposite, but I've driven through Tepanga and it's gorgeous, but I could imagine it feeling a bit isolating. I mean I grew up in New York so all I know is the hustle and bustle of New York City. And it's funny you mentioned that you're going to these like wine tastings and you're bringing your son and you're vibing and you're spending quality time because my mom always said like she took me everywhere as a kid. I'm an only child and she when I was little my parents would go out for drinks and I sit at the bar with them. I wasn't drinking alcohol as a kid, but they didn't want to leave me at home and they loved that New York City was a place where you could do that with a child and you could bring them out and socialize them in that way. And I know it brought them a lot of personal meaning and joy. So I can kind of thinking about them as I'm hearing your response because I see there to be inter-connectivities and I just think that's such a beautiful way to now experience the world through your son's eyes and how that is probably just such a deeply gratifying part of your life now and chapter that you're in the midst of. So I love that and now it's the summer and it's beautiful weather and there's so many amazing walks to take in Greenpoint and all around New York City. So maybe I'll run into you on one of the New York City streets, but Amber truly it was such a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you for your time and for your vulnerability and insight and I do believe that, you know, everyone who's listening like there is just so much to take from this interview and to think about how to apply these lessons into your own life, like how to gather the courage to say the hard truths, to deliver these hard truths from a place of compassion and love and what it means to really prioritize yourself. So I know I learned a lot and now my listeners get to grab a copy of your book. So this leads me to really my final question. Where can everyone connect with you and read Lovable and just follow along in your orbit? Yeah, so Lovable is available wherever books are sold and you can follow me on Instagram. I'm Hay Amber Ray and Amber Ray.com is my website, which will link to all the things as well. Amazing. Thank you so much and this was so fun. Thank you. You asked great questions. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. And if you'd like to stay connected to the Everyday Endorphins community, check out my Instagram page, which is just Everyday Endorphins. Also on TikTok and you can subscribe to my substack, which really just documents a stream of consciousness and my own perspective on what it means to cultivate a meaningful and joyful life. Reminder to keep spreading endorphins and focus on the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time.