EP #156: Why Stress Resiliency is Foundational to Corporate Wellness with Sophia Mullins, Founder of Wall Street Wellness

Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness and daily living. I'm your host Stella Stuffinopolis, and this week I had the absolute pleasure of getting to have a very good friend of mine on the show who I'm constantly inspired by, Sophia Mullins, who is the founder of Wall Street Wellness. Would one start it as a personal blog to document the life of being someone who works in the finance world, in private equity, and trying to find some semblance of balance and infuse wellness into their day to day has now turned into an amazing corporate wellness consultancy. So in this episode, Sophia and I sit down and talk a little bit about the founding story of Wall Street Wellness, her perspective on what those fundamentals are for well-being, and how she articulates the value of wellness in the corporate world. We talk about what it means to take a perspective around career longevity, how she balances discipline and flexibility, and this concept of intentional intensity, which is really focused on stress resiliency in the corporate world, but also just in life. We also compare generational differences in work culture and how Gen Zs versus millennials see this concept of work-life balance, is it something we can even actually ever achieve, and Sophia's take on how to realistically apply wellness practices into a very stressful, highly intense job and life. And of course, we talk about how Sophia defines happiness and what brings her in-door-fans. Before we dive into this episode, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Excited to share this conversation with you all, so without further ado, let's get into it. Hi, Sophia. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast for being here. I know we've been talking about doing an in-person recording, which is so much fun, and I don't do this often, so it's a treat for me, especially on a Friday, to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. We're IRL. I'm so excited to be in New York City and sitting across from your shining face. And it feels like it was not that long ago when we were walking around Brickle, just counting up and chatting and having the best time, and I think one of the most beautiful things about connecting through social media is how you can create these kinds of relationships without being in the same city. And so that kind of brings me to the first thing that I wanted to talk about, just how we met, shout out to Camille. We love Camille. We do. I want to kind of start there how we met and how our lives kind of came together. So for my memory, and like fact check me if I'm wrong, but I was working with someone named Camille, and I was interning at Accenture, and we were talking about my interest in health and wellness, and she was like, oh, you should follow my friend, Sophia, Wall Street Wellness. So I followed your page. We'd stayed connected, like on social media for a while, and then I can't even pinpoint the time that actually brought us together when our friendship was solidified. I think it was maybe after I moved to Miami. I was back up in New York City for some sort of work event back when I was in private equity, and I think we just decided to go for a coffee date, the rest is history. But I think we had a phone call. We had had a few phone calls, then we met in person. We did. There was definitely a phone element there, some phone flirting. Literally. And now here we are. Now you've left your job, but you're your job in private equity to pursue this full time. You're killing it. You're doing so many amazing things. I'm like cheering you on from the sidelines and obviously in person. But when you started Wall Street Wellness, what was the inspiration? Because you were doing that while you were working as a VP in private equity. Yeah. So I actually started Wall Street Wellness as an Instagram page when I was transitioning from investment banking to private equity. And really, it was just me sharing my own experience in a high intensity role on Wall Street while also balancing my health and wellness goals and how I was realistically striking that balance. And I really just started posting Jim selfies and my meal plans and maybe the workout class I was doing at Equinox and the effort to find like-minded people who are also in a similar position. And as the years rolled on, it started evolving as my definition of wellness evolved. And I think it all really came to ahead when I had my autoimmune diagnosis. And I was really open about sharing about how I was able to heal that and send the autoimmunity intermission through lifestyle changes, just a whole nether. Tangy could get into. But that really prompted me to share about more vulnerable topics through Wall Street Wellness around not just healing myself physically, but healing, mental burnout from work and also just mental health in general. And those weren't topics that were being shared very often. Really in a corporate setting, but especially on Wall Street. And that really allowed me to have a deeper bond and more engaged bond with my audience. And it's really kind of organically grown from there. Yeah, I think it's the reason it's so successful is because you're so true to your own experience. And people can see that and they can feel it. And especially in New York, so many people work on Wall Street. So many people are in finance. Even some of my close friends are in investment banking and private equity. And I can see the grind like I see it. And I personally do not know how they do it. I just don't. And I really admire people in that industry who are able to be in that really intense environment and find some sort of meaning out of it. However, they define that. But you were living that for a long time. Yeah. And at the same time, you were blogging for fun about your wellness practices and what you were doing at what point did you feel like what you were communicating online really started to resonate with a community? Like where did that traction pick up for you? I mean, it's always resonated because people I say physical movement nutrition are kind of the gateway drugs to the rest of wellness because they're more tangible. So there's always been that baseline interest in those more tangible parts of well-being. But where I really started having, you know, deep connections with my audience was when I started sharing about my auto-immunity journey, sending that into remission. And then also just being a little bit more open around mental health. I'm very open about having a therapist and very open about the ups and downs that come with a high intensity career and normalizing those. And I think just prompting that conversation online and being open about my own experience opened the doors for other people to feel like they could do the same and honestly just reflect on the fact that this is a very normal part of the experience. And I love how you focus a lot on this concept of lifestyle changes. Health really comes back to the basics. And what I found to be true is that those are kind of like the fundamental things that create a healthy life are the first things to go when we're feeling stressed and overwhelmed and overworked. So when you think about those key pillars in your lifestyle or what you have been advocating on your platform, especially when it was more like the blogging days, what were some of those key principles that you kept coming back to around fitness and nutrition and sleep? Like what were you realizing as you were in this really high intensity and stressful job? What were the things that were grounding you as you were navigating that time? I think across all of the pillars, it was really finding those small changes that I could make on the outside edges of my life to really small changes that would add up to long-term big lasting effects. I feel like a lot of the wellness that we consume, whether it's through articles or social media, is these big massive changes that you're going to make for a quick fix. And that's simply just not sustainable or realistic, especially when you don't have a ton of free time in a high intensity career. So instead a lot of the programming I work with now my clients and even in my own personal experiences, what are those small things that are actually practical for you to add into your life and how can you do those consistently to set yourself up for success? And so that's the broader approach I take across all of the well-being pillars. And then I like to boil it down and I tell a lot of my clients like let's truly get back to basics because to your point, so much of wellness today is focused on that trendy product or that numerical supplement. And the fundamentals for 90% of our well-being are based in movement and nutrition and taking rest that we need. And the fundamentals of the fundamentals are truly our mental health and how we think about stress resiliency and mental safety and creating a safe place for us to live inside our bodies. And once you can do that and then focus on those other pillars, like that's how you truly unlock fundamental well-being. And then you can start to think about the norm attack boots and the red light masks and those more surface level wellness products that are fun but aren't going to move the needle like the fundamentals would. Yeah, I saw something on Instagram recently. I shared it to my story. It was a pyramid and it was like a side show. And the first side show was that pyramid saying what social media thinks is our wellness practices. And it was like the sauna and the cold punches and the red light there being all the things that I love. All the things that we do. They're fun. Of course they're fun. And then the second side show was like but what health and wellness actually is. And at the bottom of the pyramid was like the absolute basic foundational things like security, safety, access to clean water. Like obviously, you know, things that we need to live. And then as you climb up the pyramid, it's, you know, more of like that psychological safety. And then as you keep growing up to the very little top, it's like the nice to have. Right. And it's the sauna and the cold punches and everything. Right. And we lose sight of really getting back to the foundations because I think especially with social media, we are thrown in every other direction. thinking that we have to paint some certain picture to be healthy. Yeah. That's not the case. No, it's so true. And you know, the nice to have at the top of the pyramid have PR teams. Where's the fundamental zone? Exactly. Exactly. It's really getting back to those basics. It's so important. And when we look at it from a career perspective to, I feel like it's so important to talk about health creation also with the context of wealth creation and that you can't have health creation without wealth creation too, like to be able to climb up that pyramid, you need to have a sense of financial security and stability. Absolutely. And that's what working a job will give you and especially in the corporate ecosystem. And what I love about your platform is that you're not anti corporate America. And just because you chose intentionally to leave your job in private equity, it doesn't mean that you're anti. Absolutely. And you know, like I'd love to hear more about how you navigated the ups and downs of your career, but also the perspective that you take on being in the corporate world, but also wanting to prioritize some sort of mental sanity and your health and wellness practices. I'm actually so pro corporate. I mean, I work with corporates for a reason now in my consultancy. I think it's a wonderful way to create that financial stability that you're referencing, but also to really have a sense of fulfillment. And I think entrepreneurship can be very glamorized in today's era, but I tell people, like, I don't know if I recommend this unless you have a dying passion or this purpose that you feel like you need to bring into the world, which is a big reason why I left private equity is this was burning on my chest for a long time. But this is the hardest career move I've ever made. And like I've worked in banking private equity, VC hedge funds. And this is no joke. And so I like to kind of demystify entrepreneurship in that way. But I think it's super important when you're working in corporate that you take this career longevity perspective and a lot of times it's really easy to get into a role like an investment banking analyst position. And even as you ascending your career and finance of just super high intensity and sprinting. But it's if you're going to do this for a long period of time, you really have to find ways and habits and lifestyle decisions that make it more sustainable over the long term. And so that's a lot of what the programming is too is just helping people identify what those small changes are. Absolutely. And when you think about some of the small changes you had to implement, what were those when you were still working in your full time job? It started with a lot of trial and error and like figuring out what actually worked for me. But I would say the biggest things and this is different for everyone. In terms of a framework, it was identifying what my non-negotiables were. So for me, I need to like quote unquote, "touch grass" every morning. I need to get outside. I need to see the sunshine and even if that means waking up early to do so before things kick off. And most of my roles I've worked with Europe so that required being yeah, in touch with your inbox pretty early. But carving out that time to go for a 6 a.m. 7 a.m. walk and really start the day on my terms has always been extremely important to me. I really lean on my meditation practice. That's something I've been doing consistently for years. And I always try to be really intentional around my nutrition. Coming back to the autoimmunity, I have Hashimoto's and a big part of how I've been able to send that intermission alongside the stress resiliency and stress management is also what I eat. So I'm gluten free, soy free and I say dairy conscious because I don't think I'm ever going to fully cut cheese and cream. But I love that term dairy conscious. I don't know what the next term is going to be in like 10 years. Like if you were in a hodgepodge different ways that they put up, you know, your intake. Exactly. So I try to be really cognizant of that just because I've seen in my own life. There's a huge difference with how I feel myself and how I show up energetically and just even my mental clarity. So really honing those things in and then, you know, adding in fun things when I can that weekend workout or that weight lifting when I can squeeze it in. But really making sure that the non-negotiables happen every day and then adding on as I can. But I mean, especially early in your career, like when I was a banking analyst and early on in private equity, you really just have to give yourself flexibility because so many people, you know, they have their 10 step skincare routine or their 20 step morning routine. And if you set yourself up to have these hour long or two hour long routines, you're setting yourself up to fail because that's just not going to be the normal. And if your routine causes you more stress than it does like restore you or make you feel grounded, then that's honestly assigned to reevaluate. Yeah. That's such a good point. It's like important to have the non-negotiables that are maybe one step up from maybe the actual daily practices that you do. But being flexible with knowing that every single day is going to change. So as long as you're somehow hitting that and activity in that bucket of the non-negotiables, you are setting yourself up for success. So for example, if one of your non-negotiables is some form of movement, keep it at that movement. It doesn't have to be a 45 minute workout before you long on in the morning because maybe you have a 7 a.m. call and you just can't get up at 5.30 to work out that day. But if you find movement later in the afternoon or that evening, you're setting yourself up for success because you did the thing that's the non-negotiable. But you're not feeling guilty because you didn't do it at 5.30 or 6 in the morning. Right. And that's where those small changes consistently start to add up because you're still keeping that promise to yourself. But giving yourself the flexibility to fit it in in a way that realistically works for whatever that week is bringing you. And so it's not being super rigid with yourself, but still feeling like you're accomplished and doing those things that are filling you up throughout the week. Yeah. No, I love that. I took a boxing class like a few years ago and the reason that I'm remembering this anecdote is because I wrote down the quote that I heard from the instructor. And at the end of the class, he said, the highest form of love is self-discipline or the highest form of like self-love is disciplined. I think that was the great treat. Literally. Literally. Exactly what we're talking about. It's how do you become disciplined in your routines without a sense of rigidity, but creating structure and routine and setting yourself up in a way that you know how to commit to promises that you make to yourself. Right. It builds that sense of self-efficacy and then you feel more inclined to want to keep doing the things that make you feel good. And the more that you do it, the more you know what it feels like on the other side of keeping that promise to yourself. And so even when you don't want to step into the gym or you don't want to get outside and go for a walk, you know how good you're going to feel, not even just physically, but mentally that feeling of keeping that promise to yourself is unlike anything else. And you can't get it from anything else besides that consistency with yourself. And so that will get me off the couch even when the physical benefits won't. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like this is a really good segue into talking about this really beautiful term that you have developed around intentional intensity. Yeah. I'd love to hear more about what that even means, especially in the context of what we're talking about with being disciplined and setting routines and having non-negotiables for oneself. This came to be as a stress resiliency framework. And so stress resiliency is my answer to stress management because a lot of times stress management is thrown around and immediately receives an eye role in a corporate environment because people think that stress management is the removal of all of the stress in our life. And even if you're not a stressed out person, that's impossible. If you're in a high intensity industry, it's a pipe dream at best. And so when we start to use stress resiliency to open the conversation around how we can realistically manage our stress levels, already you have more of a listening ear. But this really came about from like I said, my reflection and then also speaking with many senior people in the industry about how they've had career longevity. And this framework really starts to identify the three states that we oscillate between every day and then intentionally transitioning between these states. So intentional intensity is the first state of the Wall Street Wellness Stress Resiliency framework. And intentional intensity is when we are using 100% of our capacity. So this is energetically, mentally, physically. We're putting it all on the table. This is when you have a client meeting at 10 in the morning and you get an email from the client in the morning that they need all new deliverables. And you know, your shoulders are going to be up to here. You're going to be cranking on your computer. You might skip breakfast and it's going to be really intense leading up to 10 a.m. So this is the first bucket that we classify our stress into. And this comes up, you know, in a high intensity role, probably a few times a day. The second bucket of time within the framework is called relaxed productivity. And relaxed productivity is the concept of identifying the types of work we can do that are a little bit more monotonous or put us in a flow state where we can add in restorative measures while we're doing this work, even if it's just a playlist or going to get matcha or coffee with a favorite coworker, stretching and being a little bit more intentional with our breath while we're doing this work or even just releasing the shoulder tension we had from earlier. But adding in these more restorative measures so that we can still get the work done and be productive, but it doesn't completely deplete us. And then the third bucket of time is restorative time. And that's when we completely detach from work. For some different occupations, this is far and few between, but it's even breaking out during the day for five minutes and going for a walk around the block or I mean, you name it, calling a friend, grabbing a coffee, but anything you can do to just quickly step away from work, energetically reset, this can also be captured when you're doing those morning walks or going and having an evening routine, but just allowing yourself to step away so you can return to the work environment energized. And those are the three states that we oscillate between the day. Well, those are three very unique states, like they're very distinct. The second one sounds like you're doing work where you're nervous. system is not pulled into fighter flight. You're in a little bit more of like a rest and digest mode where you can you know what you have to work towards. You've got it down kind of on autopilot so you can put music in the back and just kind of crank it out. And by doing that and accomplishing the tasks it makes you feel better and you're like oh I've checked all of this off my to-dealist like I feel good if like I've accomplished something today. But you're right the first stage like the intentional intensity stage where you've got an immediate deadline and everything's changing all at once. It's that's what pulls you into the fighter flight. Like you are stressed you are anxious and so are there like micro moments that you can identify during the day to get you in between those three stages. That's exactly right. And so what I work with with a lot of my clients is focusing on the transitions between the states. And so when we look at our workday we spend most of our workday oscillating between intentional intensity and relaxed productivity. Like at the very end. At the very end or even you know after a high-intensity deliverable like transitioning back into that zone of more mental safety with the relaxed productivity. And so what I found for myself and what made this so crucial for me and I think was a big part of truly identifying stress management was I would have those situations where something would be super high intensity in the morning and I would catch myself carrying that intensity so much further into the day than was necessary. After that 10 a.m. meeting with the client where you cranked on the deliverables is over you can oftentimes transition back to a less elevated less energetically during state like relaxed productivity. But I wasn't doing that. I was keeping my shoulders up to my ears and you know it was probably translating outside of your job but like at home and then your person like we carry these emotions like everything permeates. Absolutely. And so the fundamental part of this is once you identify these three buckets that we oscillate between. It's then really identifying getting honest with yourself about when you have the opportunity to transition. And I personally was pretty shocked when I got more intentional about this. I took inventory of my tasks and private equity at a hedge fund and at a VC fund and most of the tasks I was doing could actually fall in relaxed productivity. Was I choosing to do that? No. I was keeping it. I think it's a personality thing too but I was keeping things a lot more high intensity than they probably needed to be. But then when I got really mindful about those transitions and with transitions like our nervous system loves signposts. And so creating like actual tangible experiences that signal to our nervous system that we can transition are also huge. Whether it's a playlist or getting up and taking a quick lap around the office or grabbing a cup of water. I mean you can fill in the blank with what works for you and what you have accessible to you at your fingertips. But just creating that signpost and giving your nervous system that thing to recognize. Oh hey this means I can transition to less intense state and I'm safe and I can take a breather is huge for your energy levels throughout the day throughout the week and honestly throughout your career. Like this is how you unlock career longevity in a high intensity industry. Yeah. I love that career longevity is so important. It's another what I coined. I love it. I really do. When we think about this from a people perspective and a managerial perspective. What would you say to people who are managing teams to help bring this concept into the norm in the cultural environment? Because I think that if the culture within an organization can recognize this the importance of how we oscillate between the states. And if a manager can recognize that someone on their team is still keeping their shoulders up to their ears all day. How can they start to identify that and intervene appropriately? I think there's two ways and it starts with leading by example and so managers have to take care of themselves and then that allows their direct reports and their juniors to feel like they can then do that for themselves as well. But also it starts by just opening up the conversation and that's why I get so much reward from my work with clients now is this is oftentimes the first time that two colleagues are having a conversation around even what they like to do for their wellness or what works for them in terms of nutrition or meal prepping or even sharing what they're ordering off seamless and idea sharing in that sense and once you kick off that conversation people have so much to share so much they want to learn but it so rarely comes up organically in a work setting on the desk but did you feel that way in your job that it rarely came up in your day to day? I kind of forced the conversation. I think I probably talked about it more than people wanted to hear and I was kind of always like people would joke at multiple firms I've worked at that like I was like the team's chief wellness officer because I guess it was fate they there was some truth to that but I was always kind of that point person where people would come and ask their health and wellness questions and I think at their core a lot of people in high intensity industries just by nature of being driven and wanting to have it all and have that really holistic vibrant life experience we don't just want to have it all in our career we want to have vibrant health we want to have wonderful strong social connections we want to be emotionally healthy and so we're all naturally curious about these things it's just you run into an issue especially in demanding career fields where you have limited amounts of free time and for me I was so passionate about health and wellness that I would spend all of my free time learning and soaking up as much of this information as I could especially in today's wellness ecosystem where there's so much noise everywhere it can be really hard to identify what even works when you have that limited free time and then to implement it into your life like there just has to be efficiency there and so that's kind of what I'm hoping to solve for is you have all these people that want to live a vibrant healthy life they have limited time to come up the learning curve and so if I can be that bridge of the gap and bring those tools that are science-backed efficiently to them so they can achieve that like that's the most rewarding thing ever yeah and it's really refreshing to hear how passionate you are about the work you're doing now because I think that you needed this experience in the industry and on the grounds to even develop your own perspective on how can we integrate more of ourselves into our work and how can we find a sense of balance or rather how do we have agency in our careers so that we can set ourselves up for career longevity because we're taking care of our health and wellbeing what bothers me is that there is still I think this perception around workplace wellness or wellness in the workplace like it feels fluffy like it does yeah but it's not about just HR having another like mindfulness-based program like I don't think that actually moves the needle anywhere it's not practical and a lot of times these I mean they're wonderful and they're well-intentioned and I'm not here to knock any of that but oftentimes it's a 30-minute exercise and then there's no follow-up there's no application or anything like that whereas a lot of what I have found works and these environments is efficiently giving people the information realistically arming them with how they could apply it in their lives and then prompting them to get really reflective about how they could actually apply it and like setting goals and setting objectives about okay let's reflect on okay I want to drink more water how could I set myself up to actually have a Stanley on my desk or download an app that reminds me to drink water more frequently or maybe just adding electrolytes my water to boost my hydration like there's a hundred different ways that you could achieve the same outcome but it's getting reflective about what you want to achieve and then how you're gonna practically apply it to your unique life situation which is a little bit different for everyone but there are a lot of common threads for people that are high-intensity roles that I start to kind of get their brain juices flowing in these sessions and then they start to think through it and then the magic really happens with reflection and the discussion where people are sharing what works for them and having that just humanization experience with their coworkers I think after COVID especially so many organizations are craving that like closer connection with co-workers and like that humanization which sounds basic and obvious but it can be hard to achieve especially in settings where we're still on the office but zooming and so this has also been a really good tool to help with culture and that's been a bonus side effect but it's really nice to see it's I'm seeing a lot of conversations take place through this programming and the advisory that I'm doing that I wish I could have been a part of the firms that I've been at which is really rewarding well you're creating what you wish you had and now like how amazing is it to be able to give back in that way and you know I want to transition a little bit into the shift that you made career wise to move from a study income a great job of the like on paper yeah to taking risk that is a very hard thing to do and you mentioned earlier this is not as glamorous as may see him and I know I know it's not and I would love to hear did you feel happy when you were working on Wall Street however you would define happiness and through this transition do you think you feel happier now it's a really great question when I was working on Wall Street I definitely felt that safety that you were talking about around financial safety I felt a lot of prestige I would say I felt a lot of external happiness you know material happiness and I really liked the work I was working with a ton of really smart people it was challenging material it was always new and different and I liked that I would just say I always had this underlying urge having a passion and a calling is a blessing in a curse because it's a blessing that you identify that and I have so many people say if I had a calling I would want to do entrepreneurship too it's a blessing that you find it but it's a curse because once you identify it it's constantly kind of nagging at you and so although I was satisfied in my Wall Street career to just kept getting a little bit more pulled. I'm like, "I really want to build something in the wellness space. I don't quite know what it's going to be, but I really love this intersectionality of high-intensity careers and wellness, and I'm sharing on Wall Street wellness, but it just never made sense to me what it was going to be." And that nudge got stronger and stronger and stronger while I was ascending in my finance career, and I was just like, "You know what? It's now or never." And I think I had to kind of overcome some limiting beliefs to like, "Who better than me?" And I worked on Wall Street for a decade, and I am passionate about this, and it doesn't exist. So why shouldn't I build this? And once I got to that point, I was like, "Okay, I'm obviously taking a financial risk and stepping away from a lot of stability, but if not now, when?" And I really am comfortable with like, my ability to build and work hard, and I prove that to myself time and time again on Wall Street. So it's like, "It's a fundamental belief of mine. If you work hard, you do the right thing, and you do right by people. Like things will work out." And I just felt like I was being so pushed to this for a reason. And so I trust that it's going to work out. - It already is. - It already is. - I guess it is. - It already is. I mean, you've been doing so much, and I, again, like I mentioned, I've been watching from the sidelines, and I know we have a lot of exciting, fun partnerships and things brewing as well, which we'll talk about another time, but it's already happening. And I really admire what you've been building, how it's evolved over time, what you're doing now, what the next chapter is going to look like, 'cause I think that we need more people like you in this world, especially as examples from the corporate space, that you can do both, and that you can find ways to take care of yourself, and people are going to respect that, and actually look up to you and see you as a leader if you know how to prioritize your own wellbeing. Also in the workplace, in seeing how that contributes to a sense of longevity in your career. I think especially in more junior people feel like you can only have one or the other, and they feel like it's hard to assert boundaries, or I mean, I know that there's multi-generational biases across either end of this spectrum, like boomers think that Gen Zs are little too pretentious, or that they can really create the life they want, and are kind of taking advantage of this whole boundaries and wellness thing, any too far end of either structure, I don't think is good. So to be cognizant about how you're going about this, but I do think that this generation in particular, like it has such a zest for what's the intersection between my work life and my personal life, and how do I find a way to integrate it in a way that sets me up for a more holistic like career and lifestyle. Gen Z is very much pushing this conversation forward. Well, when we sat down, I said to you that I didn't have a no-pad in a pen, and I just had my questions on my phone, I was gonna periodically reference, and you were like, that's so Gen Z. - I know, and I don't say that in a bad way. I say it as like Gen Z, I love Gen Z, because I feel like you all have strong opinions and value systems, and you're not afraid to voice them, and millennials are, I'm a millennial, if you couldn't tell, probably I've been in paper for life, but what I think is interesting is millennials have a very similar value system to Gen Z. We're just much more quick to put our nose down and fall in line, whereas Gen Z is like, I don't really care about the hierarchy, I don't care about the seniority levels as much. This is what I need in terms of work life balance, and other generations, millennials, included, don't agree with that mentality, and I've had resistance to that mentality myself, but Gen Z is not going anywhere, and if anything, Gen Z is coming into the workforce for many years to come, and so with that, we have to find a way to have this cross-generational harmony in the workplace, and so that starts with opening up the conversation of, okay, a boomer in a Gen Z may never completely overlap in how they define work life balance and corporate well-being, but if you can even get them two feet closer, you've made a lot of progress, and so it's just opening up the conversation, and this is where the humanization comes in, where it's like, we all really just want to do a good job, get our work done, have a great life outside of work too, and so how can we make that happen with how we define that with each generation, and so having a conversation to levels at that too, especially within teams as well, reminding that you're both probably working towards the same goal, so reminding that it's the same goal that you're working towards, and understanding that there's communication differences, and there's working preference differences, and how to honor and acknowledge the other person's style, but also upholding the way that you work best. I think it's so important to have those conversations at the beginning. It's any kind of relationship, it's level setting that. Level setting, and I think we're just getting to a point where people are okay discussing the difference between. Maybe there was a few years where people were still trying to figure out what this Gen Z thing was, and maybe they thought it was due to COVID, and a lot of it is due to COVID, but trying to figure out what the dynamic was before they could maybe address it in conversation, but I'm oftentimes shocked with how little that conversation is happening, and it's kind of like this elephant in the room. We know boomers, Gen X, millennials, and Gen Z all have very different definitions of these things, but no one really wants to talk about those differences, and if we keep avoiding them, we're not gonna bring our definitions any closer anytime soon. - Yes, and that was a big top of conversation at this conference that I attended about a month ago. It was with NYU, their initiative on purpose and flourishing, and it was fantastic. The initiative, I believe, is led by Susie Welch, who was a professor at Stern, and she has this really famous course called Becoming You. It's for business students on purpose and flourishing in life, and I'm actually taking the course tomorrow, 'cause she's opened it up to non-business school students. - Okay. - So I will be a student for a day. - Quick plug, Susie. - Yeah, no, literally shout out to Susie Welch. And the conference, there was lots of conversation on, like how to navigate this multi-generational workforce, and the fact that now research is starting to be had and conversations are continuing about how to thrive in this system, I think, is so important, because it really made me reflect and think about the way that I engage with the people that I work with across different generations. Understanding maybe their biases for my generation, but also understanding some of the biases I may hold, and how do we meet in the middle? 'Cause I think that if you can kind of show up in your working life with that sense of curiosity and compassion for other people, the work itself goes way further than just kind of putting your head down and like checking things off the to-do list. - That's so wise. I mean, there's a reason every generation has the value system and the beliefs that they have, and so you can kind of back into what it was like growing up during that time, or maybe what pressures were in their environment. It starts to make a lot more sense, and that's like one of the biggest steps on the path to empathizing and humanizing, and then ultimately creating this generational harmony that we're all looking for in the workplace. Everybody wants it. It's just getting on the same page about how you achieve it and kicking off these conversations. - And to your point earlier, that's why it's important to have a curiosity for the people that you work with, like to actually ask those questions about their personal lives. I mean, not in a way that you're like pestering that. I mean, like being nosy, but really like trying to have a sense of curiosity for getting to understand who that person is, 'cause you're working with a person, not a machine. - Yeah, I think it became increasingly popular during COVID, or maybe increasingly easy to view coworkers, almost as widgets during COVID, because it's just another square on the screen, especially when you had new joiners coming in or turning-- - I mean, my training was in the metavert. Like, the metavert, only that. I don't even know what I did for my job. - You had an avatar that you went to the team happy hour with. - I did not attend. I was like, I'm not gonna do this. - That's hilarious. - Yeah, wow. - Yeah, I mean, that'll, case in point, exactly. I wanna transition a little bit to some questions that I ask across all my interviews. And, you know, everyday in Dwarfens, as you know, my listeners know this platform is all about finding the things in life that bring us joy. And what it means to prioritize our happiness and understanding the differences between being happy and feeling joyful. So, I have a few final questions for you. And the first is, how do you define happiness? - I would say my definition of happiness has changed. And this kind of goes back to your earlier question. I just realized I didn't answer it, but if I'm happier now and entrepreneurship. And I would say now that this has informed me of my due definition of happiness, I am in fact happier. And I've found that happiness for me now is at the intersection of when I'm working hard and putting my best foot forward. And a way that serves other people that also leverages my unique experiences and background. And so I feel like I've finally got my footing with this in life. And it has been some of the greatest happiness and fulfillment I've experienced with Wall Street Wellness because it's putting a lot of purpose behind a pretty tough path that I took. And I'm now serving who I once was and putting that impact into the world. And I'm also working really hard and working really hard and seeing the outcome of that is always really rewarding. But when you're able to find those other points of intersection, it is rewarding and fun and exciting. And that has really informed this new type of happiness of unlocked and it's been really nice. - I love that. I mean, it's very mission driven. It's very intentional. And there is science that supports that when you do things for other people, it actually increases your own levels Happy. - Oh my gosh, I believe it. I started volunteering consistently again this year and I had gone for, I mean, I made every excuse in the book why I didn't have time when I was on Wall Street. I genuinely didn't have time. I'll give myself that. But now that I volunteer consistently, I'm like, this is, again, it's like really simple. - It's a best to create joy in our lives. It's very simple to do. - It's basic. - It's basic. And even if the things around you don't feel, quote unquote, good, or they're more maybe negative experiences that you can't control, you can still decide to be happy. We don't have to let these really negative things outside of our control make us stay in that negative emotion forever. To your point around moving out of the intentional intensity into more of the rest and digest it, the negative thing happens, your shoulders are up to your ears, but you don't need to stay there forever. - Right. - You can just let it relax and it's the same analogy with the things happen in life around you, you can't control it. You can react to it in that moment, find, feel the emotion, feel the negativity, but don't become that emotion. Like you can choose happiness truly. - Let it roll off and it goes back to framing and how we have the perspective. And I think going back to volunteering, it's amazing because just completely resets your perspective. When you take your focus off of me and put it on another person, you're reminded how good you have it and how full your life is. And it's human nature, but we get really used to taking great things for granted, really quickly. And so when you take the focus off yourself, it kind of readjusts and you're like, "Wait, my life is really great "and I have so much to be thankful for." And it's a really healthy reset for that. - Absolutely. Like the perspective is really important. So my final question to you is, what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? - Every day. - It's gotta be my morning walk. - I was gonna say, it's touching grass. I knew it. - It's touching grass. - I know, I'm becoming predictable at this point. I mean, I love walking as you know, like my walks can look very different depending on the day. Some days it's a crazy EDM playlist or it's like the most aggressive wrap you've ever heard. And some days there's no headphones at all. Other days it's a walking meditation, but truly just getting my body moving early in the morning and creating that space to think is sometimes I'm just dancing. - I love it. - I love it. - I just love it. - I just such a natural high. And so it's a non-negotiable for me every single day. - Yeah, well, I mean, you're blessed to be in a warm climate where I wish I could do it every single day in New York. - I did in New York too. - You did. - Yeah, Arctic Tundra. Like I would still be out there in my park. - Okay, so you really are a diharmonic walking. - Yeah, it's like cryotherapy. - Literally it is. Yeah, it is. There was a day in your-- - Two birds one a show and literally it was like, negative whatever degrees. And I stepped outside and I was like, oh yeah, like if we want free cryotherapy, just go outside. And yeah, you're right. - All the benefits. - It really does give you the immediate endorphins. But so did this conversation. So, same. - Thank you so much for being here, for coming onto the show, for following along my journey since, well, not inception, but for a long time at this point. It's been such a pleasure having you here. And I really look forward to seeing all the great things we're gonna continue to do. Where can I find listeners, connect with you, and stay in touch and get involved with your community. - Sure, well, thank you so much for having me first and foremost. You've been such a mutual inspiration to me since we've been connected and continue to be. And we've so many fun partnerships coming up that will soon be announced. But if people want to connect with me on the community side, which is the At Wall Street Wellness Community that I've been running on Instagram for a long time, it's truly just At Wall Street Wellness. And that's where I post events, quick tips, must read articles, really just an information sharing source. And then if anyone's interested in the corporate wellness side, I have a website, WallStreetWallness.com. Also LinkedIn, and I have a newsletter that kind of blends both worlds. So that's all of the community events that I'm hosting as well as snippets from the corporate consulting that work that I'm doing. And it's a really fun medium that I've been exploring. And yeah, I'd love to connect with anyone on that platform as well. - I love your substock. I'm an avid reader and follower. Lots of wisdom, lots of insight. - My carry Bradshaw. - No, literally, it's crazy. - Moment, it's so fun. - Oh, thank you so much. This was wonderful. - Thank you for having me. (upbeat music) - Thanks for tuning into this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard and you want to continue to follow along, make sure to like, rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. You can also follow along on Instagram, on TikTok, and subscribe to my substock, where I not only talk about episode recaps or events that have happened that month, but I get to dive a little bit deeper into my own perspective and philosophy on joy and happiness and living a good life. Thanks again for tuning in and reminder to keep spreading endorphins and finding the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time. (upbeat music)