EP #152: Corporate Natalie on Finding Your Identity Outside of Work & Pursuing Passions Beyond the 9-5

Welcome back to another episode of Every Day in Dorfins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host Stella Stephanopoulos, and this week is a very special episode for me. Not only because this week's guest is someone that I've had on my vision board, but as I did this interview, I realized in real time through our conversation how many similarities and parallels our career paths have taken. And it is always so exciting for me to get to sit down with people who also in a way share in my background, because I find the conversations to be 20 times more relatable. And separate from it being very relatable to me, I think that the topics covered this week are actually going to be relatable to all of you in the corporate world. And that's exactly what I think really blew up corporate Natalie's content on TikTok. That's what made her gain traction because of how relatable the content was that she was sharing at the time and continues to share. So it is with the utmost honor that I get to say that Natalie Marshall, aka corporate Natalie, came on to Every Day in Dorfins this week. I absolutely loved our conversation. We really indexed on the importance of exercising your creativity while in the corporate space. And that was kind of the central topic discussed in this interview as we got to explore Natalie's pivot from the corporate world working at Deloitte into entrepreneurship, how to actually embrace the corporate world in a way that works for you, and lessons that she's learned as she's become a full-time entrepreneur and content creator, ways to really create from a place of joy rather than from a place of comparison or scarcity to create more long-term success and longevity with your brand. And of course, Natalie shares a bit about her own perspective on not tying your identity up into your work and what that looks like, how she finds happiness in life, how she defines happiness, and what brings her a bit of endorphins. So for those of you who are listening who are also in the corporate world and maybe feel burned out or feel a loss of identity or a sense of purpose in what you're doing, this is such a great episode to tune into because Natalie shares a lot of wisdom around how to find a sense of meaning in your work and how to find a sense of balance from the corporate and the creative side in life. I'm excited for you all to tune in, but before we dive into this episode, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. Hi Natalie, thank you so much for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. It is so awesome to have you here. Number one, I think I've had you on my vision board, so it feels kind of like surreal to now actually do this interview. So I'm very excited to have you as a guest on the show. Stella, I love vision boarding. First of all, and second of all, I love that you have the confidence to come up to me at a coffee shop and ask me to be on your pod. That was great. I was like, I can't say no to this. You're too cute and sweet and nice. I have to make it happen. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's so funny. So what I did not tell you in person was that the day that I ran into you at this coffee shop. The first day I emerged back into society from having neurovirus. So I was like down bad. And I wasn't even planning on going to that coffee shop that day, but I was like, I need to get fresh air to not go insane. Don't worry. I was not contagious at that point. Like I wasn't going to get you sick. I was like, we hugged like perfect. I was trying to get used like that. My brain was like not functioning. So I wasn't even sure if I first of all should approach you. And then I like you were sitting in the corner. I was like, I don't want to bother her. Like I haven't seen light and days. I have to say something. But I'm so glad I did my whole motto these days is ask and you shall receive. And if you don't receive, then like at least you asked. So I'm glad that I asked little did I know you're also Greek. By the way, it's Greek Independence Day today. So like happy Greek Independence. Who knew? Wow. I know who you know, very serendipitous that we're recording today. But as someone who works in the corporate world and also straddles the creative stuff with this podcast and everything that I do. Your content and deeply, deeply like resonates with me. And that's exactly what I want to talk about today. Because I've been thinking a lot about the satire and the comedy and like the irony of what it's like to be in the corporate space. So I would just love to start out with you sharing your background and like how you even got into making tick-tock videos and how these ideas come to your mind because they're so spot on everything that you make fun of about the corporate world. I resonate with this so deeply. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much. I think it starts with just doing it, just doing the thing like you're doing with this podcast. You have a full time job. You're probably exhausted. You could go home and turn on TV and numb your brain as 95% of people do. I've been there. Everyone does it. Or you can try exploring something that you're curious about and that excites you and that gets you up. So during COVID, as everyone was trying to find this passion and what excites me, what motivates me, all of a sudden my whole life slipped upside down. I took to tick-tock to poke fun at this like work from home reality that we were all experiencing. And it became this outlet, this creative outlet and it also became a business quite quickly. I didn't realize that you could make money posting a brand deal. I had no idea about this world. And I did fake it till I made it basically. I would say looping in my assistant now. And it was actually just me on the other email. Maybe I should try it. You should totally try that. It's great. And I built this creative outlet and I built a community of mainly women who mainly work in the corporate space have jobs are trying to figure out their passions, their side hustles. My business has grown since then I started a virtual assistant company to give people the opportunity to have a side hustle in the creator space and give creators the assistance they need to run their day to day operations. I have a podcast myself and I'm just learning kind of every day what this world entails and it's exciting and there's so much it's almost just like I wish there were more hours in the day to do everything I want to do because it's such a powerful tool to have a following and have people looking at you and looking to you for advice and recommendations and all these things. And so it's just how do you use all that time. Absolutely. And I want to talk a little bit about the evolution as well and like how your perspective on what you've been building has shifted as you continue to build like I want to get there. But before we even dive into like how you've built this business. What were you doing in the corporate world while you were making content about making fun of what you were doing like were you in consulting banking. What was your industry and focus and how did that experience give you inspiration to create the content that you started to do during COVID. So you're going to die. It's the least sexy thing ever. First of all, I graduated with a degree in IT management like what what the actual hell. What is that. Then I joined a super sexy super lean fun kind of startup culture known as Deloitte just kidding. It was terrible. The sorting had of Deloitte placed me on this team called business continuity and resilience where we were trying to remove these things called single points of failure. If the IT guy has all the passwords in his head, he gets hit by a bus one day whole company crumbles. If you have a factory and a factory burns down, can you fail over if your pandemic happens and your employees need to work from home. Do they have laptops all these things that no one wants to think about in their data operations, but we would make plans for that and like contingency planning. It was a strange, strange world. I was staffed in New Jersey. It was not creative at all. Like I had no all it and I think that's what inspired the content was this hilariously mundane day today that I'm working 12 hours sitting in this chair not moving in a dark room. And I was like, okay, let's bring some light to this because this is not fun. And I'm sure other people are feeling that I cannot believe you're at Deloitte. I work at Accenture. So it's like similar vibes. I will say I'm part of our innovation consulting practice. So it's way more creative than probably what you were doing. And I do think culturally specifically within this group, it's actually like a really wonderful group of people. And I do feel a sense of purpose and energy behind what I'm doing within the bigger like capital I Accenture, which I feel really lucky by because I think that like in the corporate world at these big four top three, whatever consulting firms. A lot of people feel like squeezed out and like burnt out immediately. You're just a number exactly. But my whole philosophy now is like making work work for you. Like these are huge companies. How do you take from it in a way that's going to further your career and not feel guilty about it? How do you make this big organization work for you rather than you just being a little number circulated around? because essentially during COVID, you're like, I mean, I started with Accenture post COVID in 2021. So I never really had the work from home peak COVID experience. And I can imagine that to be really depressing. Like, were you living in New York at the time if you were in New Jersey, like on the client side or like, what was going on? No, I was in San Francisco and I was staffed in New Jersey. So every Sunday night, I would fly. And every Thursday night, I'd fly home. It was insane. I'm like, really, you can't get another unskilled worker like myself and New York in the New York office to do this. Like, why am I going across the country? I think consulting generally has just become more efficient in that the whole staffing model. But back then, it was like, oh, yeah, the clients paying so fly from SFO to New York, who cares? I love what you said, though, about making work work for you. I think there's so many ways to do this. And there's such rhetoric right now that exists on LinkedIn. And even in the videos I make, that's like, screw big corporate, right? And I think there is an element of that that you shouldn't make your job your whole personality and layoffs happen all the time. And you have to be prepared to not view your job as like your sole source of happiness and family and all these things. I think that's so true. But viewing your job as an opportunity to learn and grow and be a sponge, especially when you're early in your career and maybe talk to the, you know, in-house production team at Accenture and you have this podcasting skill. Can you interview someone at the next all hands? Can you join a podcast? I know these big four companies have in-house teams working on these production projects all the time. It's like, how can you attack that and approach it and find the things you love to do in your day to day? Yes. And I to, I mean, maybe your question was like rhetorical, but I've done that at Accenture. I feel lucky that I've been able to do that. And side note and tangent. And I bring this up because it's a relevant what we're talking about, but B, I think helps me better even articulate what I'm doing with my podcast because I started this during COVID when I was in college and then I kept it up because I was like, well, I liked interview people. I've started to think about my career as this Fend diagram. So there's like the corporate left side. Then on the right side, there's the creative. It's the entrepreneur ship. It's the podcasting. It's the yoga teaching. What exists in the intersection? How do I build with this brand in a way that's going to help me elevate my career at Accenture? How do I find the right projects, the right people, their environments at this big company that's going to help further what I'm doing the podcast? And I don't think you necessarily need to have like a podcast or some sort of creative outlet to have that mentality around thinking about your career in this Fend diagram way. But it's something I still think about every single day because I'm like, well, what exists at the center and how might that change as I continue to grow and on either parts of the Fend diagram? But what's interesting talking to you is that you started in consult at Deloitte, very similar vibe to me being at Accenture. You pivoted out of that to fully pursue entrepreneurship and all the things that you're doing. So how did you think about the way in which you were kind of growing independently in the entrepreneurship world, but then also in consulting? And then how did you see intersections but also differences that eventually led you to make the choice to be where you're at? Great question and great analogy of the Fend diagram. I love what you said there. I think do you watch Severance the show? You know, I started it and then I just, I have this issue now where I have no attention span. So I don't watch a show. I'm on my phone. So I really haven't watched it. Okay. Well, Severance is all about the main theme is that you're severed and you're any exists and they're a totally different person than your Audi and there's no overlap between work and home. And I think that just couldn't be farther from the truth now with the current state of corporate America. We see the intimate crevices of our co-workers lives. We see where they live, their background. We know their families. We talk about these things that maybe 10 years ago you wouldn't bring to the office or talk about. So I think we do have the avenues to find that intersection and companies are now more than ever willing to help guide you there. And so how do you take the initiative and do that yourself? So I just, I love what you said there. But for me, I think with corporate Natalie, I've always been very entrepreneurial like I started a jewelry company in college and I sold it actually before I graduated. I sold the trademark to it. And I've always just been kind of like a little saleswoman hustler a little bit. And I've always said like I want to start my own company that's just been in the back of my mind. And so I went to Deloitte and I learned how these different businesses operate. And I learned how companies work and how the accounting department works. And I'm able to take all these learnings to then treat my influencer life as a business. And I think that's super important because I run this company with we have a core mission and values. I have a full-time employee Annie who were you met actually in New York were so aligned and like our incentives. And we have performance reviews and I take these things that I've learned from corporate and run the business like that. It's way more successful because I know those core principles. So yeah, finding that intersection was great because I am truly corporate at my core. Like I love working hard. I am very type A. I love like trying new things and putting my head down and building a business from the ground up. So being able to do that is I feel like the luckiest person ever. I love that you said that you're corporate at your core because I do feel like a lot of people's in my generation like Gen Z's are so I mean there's the whole quiet quitting trend and just like anti-corporate America. But it's like I don't think that corporate America is actually the worst place to be ever. If you navigate the system and away that works for you back to our earlier point or if you take learnings from the experiences that you have and find ways to apply it in other areas of your life, we don't have to demonize or weaponize corporate America. And to your point, you said it's like a part of who you are. Like there's certain things that you've learned that you see being beneficial to applying towards your influencer business and like how to operate that in a way that is like a business. And something I've also really thought a lot about kind of serendipitous that we're doing this interview today because I just had this conversation with a friend around like tying our sense of self-worth and our identity to what we do. And it's something I have like really struggled with not necessarily with my performance at Accenture but more so the way in which I engage with my podcast and like the approach to treating this like a business sometimes. And I'd love to kind of hear your thoughts and perspective on high achievers tend to fall into this like tying our identity to our output and what we do. Did you feel that way while at Deloitte, do you feel this way with how you operate being an influencer as a business? Like I feel like because as an influencer, you are the brand. So how do you not put your identity into it? But we also know that when we tie our identity a bit too close to our output and our achievements, it's really detrimental to our well-being. So how do you navigate that? Like what are your thoughts on this? On my podcast, we interviewed this author, Simone Stolzoff, who wrote this book, The Good Enough Job that was all about not tying your identity to your job because it can go away in an instant with playoffs and all these things that happen. And if that foundation crumbles and you're left with nothing, who are you at the end of that? So I think having these passions outside of work, having the left side of the Venn diagram, as you said, is so crucial. I think in the creative space, in the influencer space and the content space, the lines become a little blurry because I'm technically working 100% of the time. But it doesn't feel like work because I'm telling you my story right now and I love talking to you. And yes, this is technically work for me. I am filming stories with my mom at TJ Maxx and we're having an absolute blast. And like, I guess that's work because I'm making content and I'm a content creator. But I've found some of most of what I do is so fulfilling and it doesn't feel like work. And I think that's what my advice would be to you and your job is like do an audit of your day and try to think like what energizes me, what makes me excited, what makes me want to come back tomorrow morning. And what do I kind of hate? Earlier in your career, you're going to hate things. Obviously you love what you do at Accenture and that's amazing. But like I hated Excel. I was like, I'm so slow at it. Horrible, not a core competency of mine, get someone else to do it. They'll do it 40 times better than me. But I had to try that to learn that I didn't like it. And so building this like dream job or this career you want to do is all about identifying those things that excite you. So yeah, it tying your identity gets a little, it gets sticky. It's hard. But I think having this outlet or this passion or this something outside of your job that you're not just working 12 hours a day, going to sleep and doing it all over again, makes you have a little bit more fulfillment. Yeah, I totally agree. I'm also just like you and that Excel is not my strong suit. But maybe that means I need to actually do it a bit more to get better at it. Like I don't want to do it because I know I'm really not good at it. But maybe that's a sign that I need to actually spend a bit more time like building those technical skills. But you know, it's interesting because like I feel like live in a culture and a society where our output is what's praised and our achievements are what give us that sense of fulfillment. But to your point, you could get laid off. You don't know what can happen. And so when we start to like attach so tightly onto, it's kind of more of like coming from the ego, oh, I work at this big company, oh, I make this salary, oh, I look like XYZ, all those things can kind of crumble. And so how do you kind of strike the balance between doing the things that fill you up, but also recognizing that you might need to make some sacrifices to have some sort of stability or to also So have some sort of income. Like it can be really difficult to find that balance. So what would your advice be there around finding out the right way to devote your time towards the things that energize you but also when you're trying to take a more practical stance around the work that you do as well? - Definitely, it's a good question. I think you mentioned we're so focused on the output and that's how we feel successful. And I think when you start these side passions that I'm mentioning, whether it's you start doing art and you want to sell it eventually or you start a jewelry company or you start anything that's like kind of a creative outlet, a podcast, whatever it is, you have to truly deep down be okay with it not succeeding on paper, right? With it not getting 10,000 downloads in the first episode you post of your podcast that you just spent so many hours editing. My video that I first posted, I had no intention of going viral. It's like it was just a fun thing to do and having that pure genuine confidence in what you're doing and what you're producing and being proud of it just for the fact of making it will make you feel that fulfillment more. I think with posting publicly and doing things like what we're doing now, you get so caught up in who's listening, how many downloads, what are the metrics? Oh, I failed. And then you're not gonna feel that elated, like wow, that was so fun to make that video feeling because you feel like a failure. And then couple that with, I hate my job too. Well now they're what's the point. So I tell everyone who's interested in content, be a creator first, then you can be an influencer. You don't start with I'm gonna be an influencer and sell products and do all these things. I still love creating content. It's so fun for me to film videos still. And the day that that passion goes away, I need to pivot because that won't film my cup anymore. Yeah, I love how you even mentioned the word pivot because it can be hard to pivot because it feels like a failure when you're like, oh, I have to make a change because this one method isn't working for me anymore. I know at least for me, like that has been a struggle in the past. And it's funny that you also kind of mention being tied to metrics and how that can really be detrimental to your wellbeing, 'cause I was doing the podcast for like a few years and it was growing. And then it hit this point of stagnation kind of. And I was like, well, why? Like I've been putting out content, I don't get it. Like why is it not growing in the way that I want it to and the way that I think is gonna be successful? And I really had to like do a deep dive into the why behind why I'm actually doing everything that I'm doing. And so I decided to stop looking at the metrics. And now I don't even really look at it 'cause I'm like, the purpose isn't anymore to quote unquote blow up. Like the purpose isn't anymore to gain that sort of fame or recognition that once was that extrinsic motivation that really kept me going. Now it's like reconnecting with the intrinsic motivation and that goes back to your point around being a creator first. And so I realized if I'm gonna keep spreading dorphins and like putting out the good vibes, I have to put in the good vibes to me. And something that I've come to realize recently is my love for creative writing. Like that was been reignited recently. I've always liked to write, but I've started to lean into Substack more and I'm like, wait, I should have done this a long time ago 'cause I love to write, you know? And it's like different methods of communication can get the same point across in different ways. So it doesn't always have to just be podcasting. It can be through writing, it can be through speaking, it can be through all these different modalities. And that's something that I've come to realize. And maybe that's a framework other people can apply into a more corporate setting. It doesn't have to be having some sort of side hustle. You can maybe identify different skill sets that light you up, but in a more corporate context. Also like maybe what motivates you or what excites you is like making more money. And doing that through content creation is like not even the avenue we're thinking about. Like maybe you want to start a business and you want to resell things on Amazon. Like there's so much you can do. It's like find what really is driving you. Do you want to live a better lifestyle? And you're just like not making enough of your corporate job. Would that make you feel happier? And there's no shame in that at all. Or do you want to be creative? Do you want this outlet? Do you want more time in your day? Like maybe you want to invest in learning how to use AI and to like automate some of the job that you're doing. It's like find what you really want to do and need in your life and then plug in. Absolutely. If you don't already do this, but I'm sure you do. Like career coaching would be such a great other side hustle. Because so many people, I really feel like struggle with this, especially young adults in urban environments where we feel the sort of pressure to have done everything by the time we're like three. And it's just not realistic. I want to go back to your trajectory, like from Deloitte to where you're at now. And you mentioned that you posted this video and it blew up and you had no intention of this going viral. At what point did you realize, wait, I actually can make a business out of this? And that's something that I want for myself now. How did you come to that realization? I posted, so I posted a bunch of videos. I won't my first video to not blow up. I'll clarify there. But once it started gaining traction, I pretty quickly after I changed my handle to corporate Natalie was being reached out to by these like B2B kind of larger brands, Salesforce, Dell, SoFi, companies that during COVID were trying to experiment with influencers because you couldn't do a commercial shoot in a traditional sense. So they had to move to influencer marketing. And I think we saw this huge shift in corporate Natalie became this really easy monetization platform for B2B brands to promote their products and services. And so instead of talking about the new mascara that's going viral, I was like selling Dell laptops. And it made so much sense because a Dell laptop was in all of my videos. And it felt so natural. And it felt it was, I remember getting the email from Dell. And I was like, is this spam? Like mom, please look at this. What's happening? And it was real. And I built a three year partnership with them. And I think I just quickly then switched the mindset from like, OK, this is just fun to, OK, now I'm going to treat this a little more seriously to eventually like, I'm going to quit my job and do this full time when it reaches that point. One story from my like journey was I switched over from Deloitte to Palo to networks, a cybersecurity firm. And I was doing a similar thing that I did, but went into industry as we say in the consulting world. And Corbin Adley was picking up and I got time put on my calendar by the CEO of Palo to networks, an 11,000 person company. I'm like, what's going on here? This is what's happening. And he joins and he's like, we want to move you into marketing. We've seen your videos. We love your stuff. We think we're not utilizing you to the best of your abilities if we're not keeping you in the marketing function. So made a huge career shift was able to create my role at this huge company as a 23 year old, something that I never could have even dreamed of doing. And then I have this autonomy in my job to build my role and do whatever I want, which was incredible. And just like true proof of wow, this can actually impact my day to day and my corporate job worked in that role for about six months, got the opportunity to do a commercial shoot and actually act in a show ran out of PTO and did have to did have to quit. But nice little story. I love that. And I also just think it's so cool that you were able to create your own role. Like there's this whole concept of job crafting. And it's essentially that. And I'm probably going to butcher really what job crafting is because I first learned about it in college. Like I minored in organizational psychology. And like there was a whole lecture around job crafting. But it's this idea of like building a meaningful career and like having the agency to be able to do that. And I love how your Venn diagram, like for you, what existed in the middle was moving into the marketing function at that time. And then you were like, oh, I ran out of PTO and this is really signaling to me. It's time to do this full time. Was there ever a point where you felt like, as traction was picking up, these big companies were reaching out to you, you started getting brand deals? Was there ever a point where you were like, is this real? Like why are they reaching out to me? Like yeah, I'm making this content for fun. But like how do I set myself up to establish credibility and like being taken seriously? Did you ever feel that way during this? - Well, I think as women early in our career, we're constantly like we feel the need to reestablish our credibility because we're not, you know, assume to have credibility, which is just a societal issue outside of this. But of course, I still grapple with that. I'm still like, why do you wanna work with me? I feel this is incredible. Like how does this happen? How did this happen to me? Like I count my lucky stars every single day. I think quite early on in the process, and if you've seen my videos or my brand deals, I kind of built a thesis for myself for how I wanted those to look. I don't wanna hold the product and be talking about sugar bear hair gummies and why I love them so much. I wanna do a skit on your roommate who's trying to push her supplements on you and really organically weave it in. And so every ad I do reads on my page as if it's like another video and I don't do brand deals that veer outside of that, that skit, that typical, the coworker, who style the friend who, the roommate who. So I built this thesis for myself and I think that has given me credibility in this industry where brands will come to me and they're like, we love your style. We love your ad style. We've seen that. We know that brand. And that's how I built such great relationships with these awesome partners. - Yeah, I love that. And it's interesting too, 'cause I feel like your content while rooted in the corporate world and making fun of being in the corporate space, It feels like your content is all over. Also, abstracted away from just that and put like taking on these other personas around, like the roommate who or the friend who, like it just, I think that's also what makes it more relatable to whether or not you work a corporate job is just like being a young person in an urban environment, like that typical persona that people feel like they can resonate with. And so did those personas essentially like come after you really rooted yourself in the corporate space or was it just, you were just playing with whatever content stuck as you kept creating videos and like really establishing yourself. Yeah, so I think for me, I always wanted to ensure that corporate Natalie was a character that she was separate from Natalie Marshall, my real identity. And if it really came down to it, I could delete my socials and I'd keep my job because I didn't want to lose my job. I was so thankful for my job. And so in building her, I'll call her as a character and in building these other personas, I have really been able to build separation between my real genuine life that does not exist online and my online personality. And I think for my mental health, that's been the most important decision I've ever made. I don't share publicly about my boyfriend and my family. I'll post them a few times, but there's no need to share with the world and my followers, everything that's going on in my life and my mind and stuff. And then when I do share it, it's like great, like that people are so interested and it's exciting and without fear of you wearing or whatever that is. But I don't feel the need to wake up and share my life immediately. And I think, and I go weeks without filming often and it's so great to be able to step away. So that's been very helpful. Yeah, no, I love that. I was going to ask a question to around how do you create that separation because it is a persona that you have online on social media, but at the end of the day, you had a whole life before corporate Natalie existed. So how do you reconnect to who you are as an individual separate from what you're building, which happens to be this persona corporate Natalie, but she is still very much a part of you. So it sounds like you don't always choose to post about your personal life online. But are there other things separate from like creating that distinction online between VR versus like corporate Natalie? Like are there other practices that you do that you feel ground you and keep you mentally sane because social media, as we know, can like be very detrimental to our wellbeing. But that is the method that you have to use to have a platform. So there's this like, there's this push and pull here, I think. There is a push and pull. I mean, I charge my phone in my office. I try to make my home life the most genuine it possibly can be. I live close to my parents. I live in San Francisco. I don't go to LA or New York where I feel like I might get swept up by this like influencer community and not to like knock the influencer community at all. It's great. It's powerful. There's really awesome people in it. I think I know myself and I would find myself getting veering away from the genuine connections that I have all my high school friends who live in San Francisco with me, all my Notre Dame friends who I travel with like twice a year, who I love and in all of their weddings. And this second you like change or I would never want the people closest to me to feel like I can't connect with them. And I think it's easy to get swept up in this. It really is. It's like you think you're so cool. You think you're all that like this could go away at any second. You know, someone could hack your Instagram and all the sudden you're just left with what. That was that your whole I did similar to work. It's like, is that my whole identity? No, it's not. It's a character and I would feel so confident in the life that I've built as a 28 year old woman here and I would be okay if it if it went away. Yeah, striking the balance between being detached but also being passionate about what you're doing. So in a way, you're detached from all the things that come with having the following and being in the influencer space and whatnot, but you obviously still care because you wake up every day and you love what you do. And I think that's a very it's a very like good headspace to be in, especially just navigating the influencer world and content creation, which kind of leads me to a few questions that I want to end with as we wrap up the interview around happiness because clearly everyday endorphins is all about finding the things in life that bring you joy. So the first question that I want to ask you is what your perspective is on happiness and how you define what it means to be happy and to feel joy. Oh my God. I've always said and I feel so thankful for this. I am a very happy person, whether it's through comedy and just always being like laughing with the people around me or my extremely supportive family and parents or my partner who could not be more supportive and a true angel. I find myself like so happy in my day to day and I wake up thankful. I wake up excited. I show gratitude so often. I tell it any all the time. Thank you for working for me. Thank you for doing this. I tell my parents like thank you for sending me to private school and paying for my college education. Like I think including gratitude in your day to day makes you feel happier giving it away even in your corporate job to that woman in your office who's your peer who you want to be competitive with and everything's telling you to be competitive. It's like lift her up. You know, you look better for that. So I'm so thankful to feel happy. Be happy. I know happiness does not come easy as probably this podcast explores. So little things here and there try to and I find myself being truly confident in the person I am. I could read comments from the millions of people who follow me and be so hurt and let that impact me. But I just I'm confident in the person I am the daughter I am the partner I am the friend I am that I it doesn't impact me. I'm thankful for that. And I think gratitude is so important also like it's important to remind yourself of the things you're grateful for and to share that as well. What about the moments when you're not happy because we're humans so we're not going to be happy all the time. How do you reconcile that? How do you tell yourself that feeling will pass and that you will become happier again? Like what do you do when those not so positive emotions start to come to the surface? Yeah. I think just it's like reframing like I'll have really tough work weeks where I feel heads down from six to 11 as we all have experienced at any point in life whether it's busy season at your tax firm or anything. And it's just reframing. It's like we will get through this. This is teaching me the skill of hard work. This is fun. My boyfriend and I'll joke like let's just grind today. Like let's just put our heads down and grind. And it's just kind of reframing. But I think when I'm what for me what helps I think our phones are just this source of comparison and the source of true anxiety we've seen studies come out about it with children and your addiction to your phone. I think when I put my phone down and like literally look up I feel lighter. And so my advice would be put your phone down and stop comparing yourself. You don't have to be like that hot influencer who you're seeing in your screen. That's not reality. And look around you at the people who are real. I love that. And the phones really do make us feel unhappy and make us feel lonely too. And dumb and just lonely and dumb and like unsexy and all these horrible things. Because of the comparison trap. Exactly what you set. And I feel like I completely resonate with that. I deleted social media for like a week, week and a half the other week. And I was like I need to get off of social media just for a little to give myself a break like to actually feel a bit more present. And the irony around it is like social media does enable so much connection. But it also makes us so disconnected because it takes us out of being present. So I'm still trying to figure out how to have a healthier relationship to my phone. But like I think periodically it's important to check in with yourself. So I love that comment around putting your phone down. It's important to do every now and then. Take little breaks, do little cleanses. I also think what social media was built on of connection. I've gotten so far away from that with the 4U page and the algorithm. We're just seeing videos and forgetting them and moving on. You don't I even feel like my page is like a meme page. It's not you're not even really invested in like my life. And that's totally fine. But you just like we like content and we're seeking content. And so it's not like you're connecting personally. You're just kind of viewing mindlessly. I say to people all the time, like what was the last Instagram reel you watched? No idea. It's all just like dead time, like dead space. It's sad. It's scary. That's such a good point. It's like this passive consumption rather than intentionally consuming content for the purpose of like remembering it. And maybe we could do like a part two on that because I have a lot of thoughts there. But the one question that I do want to leave you with Natalie is a question that I ask every guest that comes onto the podcast. And it directly ties into this concept of endorphins and like seeking out those things that really light you up. So I'd love to ask you what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? This is such a lame answer. And I'm sorry I'm going to say it. But I used to be like incredibly inactive. I never made the time to move my body, get outside, go on a walk, do a workout class. And I get so such an endorphin rush just working out for 40 minutes a day in a class with a bunch of other women, sometimes that occasional dude that's in the Pilates room, they're like, what are you doing here? I feel so happy in that time. Sometimes I'm pissed. I'm like, okay, this plan is going a little too long here. But I've feel like it makes me a better person throughout the day. Like I get that release. And I'm sure everyone's has that and it's so not, that's not a great answer. But for me as someone who was so inactive in 2020, to now I really don't go a day without moving my body, I can attest to the difference. And you see the difference in me. Like I look different than I did in 2020. And I'm thankful for that. - I feel that. I mean, we don't always need original ideas. The research shows that in Dorfins, like come from exercise, you know, like L would set it. So it must be true. - It must be true. - I'm serious. I totally agree with that. I notice for me too, when I do some sort of movement every day, it immediately changes my mood. Not only do you like physically feel better, but you mentally feel better. And then it's this like cyclical process of feeling better. And I love that. I teach yoga. And so I love to create an environment for people to boost their endorphins through movement. So if you're ever back in New York, you ought to come to my yoga class. - I need to try yoga. I need to just find time at night to do like a candle let yoga class, not necessarily a workout. I don't know what your yoga looks like, but I want something where I can just stretch and relax and be zen and like turn my brain off. Like a nice restorative vibe. I'm actually, I am going to yoga after this interview. It's a candlelit class at Core Power, which is the Studio IT chat, also at Equinox. So next time you're in New York, come to my class. It's a good vibe. Not to self-promote here, but like people like the playlist. It's like a good playlist, good energy, good vibes. And I think that when you just create time and space to move your body and to come back to your breathing, it will do wonders for your mental health and your wellbeing. So love that response. Endorphins, exercise. I'm on board with it. And I think like the rest of the world probably is too. Normally I ask people where they can connect with my listeners, but we know corporate Natalie. So I know everyone knows where to go find you. - Corporate Natalie across channels, yes. And check, I will shamelessly plug my YouTube, which is just a labor of love that no one watches. But it's there. If you guys want some long form content from me, check out my YouTube. - Go to corporate Natalie's YouTube for long form content. You heard it here first. - You'll be one of the first followers. So. - You're only adopters. - Well, I will go check it out. Maybe long form content is making a comeback. We'll see. - Maybe if you want, when you watch Severance, I'll believe it. - Yeah, exactly. When I put my phone down and I actually pay attention to what's in front of me, then we'll see. Natalie, it was such a pleasure having you as a guest. Thank you so much for coming on to the show. - Thank you so much for having me. (upbeat music) - Thanks for tuning into this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard and you want to continue to follow along, make sure to like, rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. You can also follow along on Instagram, on TikTok, and subscribe to my subs stack, where I not only talk about episode recaps or events that have happened that month, but I get to dive a little bit deeper into my own perspective and philosophy, on joy, and happiness, and living a good life. Thanks again for tuning in and reminder to keep spreading endorphins and finding the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time.