EP #151: Kimberly Ross on Healing Through Acupuncture & Creating Sustainable Wellness Practices, Founder of ORA

Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host Stella Stéphanopolis, and this week I am thrilled to have the founder of Aura Aki Puncture, Kimberly Ross on the podcast. A few months ago I actually had the pleasure of getting to experience the Aura method myself and getting into the space, so it was such a privilege to sit down with Kimberly and learn from her about the founding story of Aura and really what inspired her to create an Aki Puncture studio in New York City. We talked about her entry point into the health and wellness space with her own struggles around having type 1 diabetes and being diagnosed with Hashimoto's, which is an auto immune disorder. We talk a lot about how Aki Puncture can be a really powerful healing modality for chronic illness and other health-related issues through diving into the science behind Aki Puncture and Eastern medicine. There's a lot of wisdom in Eastern medicine and these practices that help us to ground ourselves and to feel more connected to our bodies, and I think Aki Puncture is a beautiful way to explore a relationship with one's body and to feel more in tune with what's going on in themselves. We live in such a chaotic and distracted world where we're often pulled away from harnessing our own bodily intuition and so to get to explore how Aki Puncture can get you a bit closer to yourself, I think, is such a beautiful thing and I truly got a lot out of this interview with Kimberly as I'm sure all of you will as you listen. So excited to share this episode with you all, but reminder to like a rate interview this podcast on whichever listening platform that you prefer. Let's dive right into it. Hi Kim, thank you so much for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. It is so great to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. It's so nice to speak with you, so thank you. Thank you for having me come into the Aura space and actually get to experience the magic of the Aura method and Aki Puncture and, you know, I am a bit familiar with Aki Puncture because I had done it pretty consistently a few years ago and I grew to really love it, but it was so amazing to get to come into the Aura space and actually experience firsthand the particular method and actually be in the atmosphere and I hadn't done Aki Puncture in a while, so it was such a sweet treat for me to end my day going and being taken care of and I absolutely loved the experience, so really excited to sit down with you today to really talk about the founding story of Aura. Oh good, I'm so glad you enjoyed the experience and I think end of the day is ideal so you could kind of float into sleep after, hopefully you were able to get into bed after. Yes, it was like kind of the perfect evening. I had my Aki Puncture session, I had this like delicious tea after class, so good and then I walked around the corner to spring cafe Aspen and I had like a snoop and I would have my computer with me and I was writing and it was just like such a nice way to unwind, but with that being said, I would love to start out by having you share a little bit about yourself and your entry point into the health and wellness space, which is I'm sure has informed the inspiration to starting Aura and diving into Aki Puncture. Yeah, I'd say health and wellness has always been a big part of my life. I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes when I was 11, so I learned kind of at a young age that I wasn't able to take my health for granted and the importance of health and wellness in my day to day and so that was very much ingrained in me at a young age and as I kind of went through different phases of life and experienced other health issues, I kind of grew my toolbox of ways to feel my best and so I first found Aki Puncture in my mid 20s and which I always would say is like seven years ago, but now it's really like 10 years ago and I was at that time experiencing a lot of digestive issues. I was working in real estate in New York City, got very stressed and anxious and was really just not feeling good and was going a lot of different doctors and trying to figure out what was causing and to fully share was a really bad constipation and IBS and really bad bloating and my energy was bad. I was also diagnosed with Hashimoto's when I was 16, another autoimmune thyroid condition and so I was just not feeling good and finally someone referred me to Aki Puncture and I went not knowing anything about it was just desperate to feel better and as I went and committed to going on a weekly basis and created a regular practice with Aki Puncture, I saw my symptoms really go away and that was kind of really open my eyes and started learning more and more about Aki Puncture and how it can help so many various health issues and as I've gone through different phases of life and different whether be pregnancy or trying to conceive and postpartum, Aki Puncture has been such a great toolbox and I say that because you know very much believe in Western medicine, I see my endocrinologist, I take insulin but really kind of using Aki Puncture as a great complement to it and Eastern medicine with it. Yeah, I love that point having Eastern medicine be something that's complimentary to Western medicine because I do think there is value in if you need medication like taking it, right? And it's important to talk to your medical professionals that are helping you and to kind of run certain things by them as well. Like very important I think to still be anchored in Western medicine but there's so much there's such a gap I think and there's so much that doesn't get addressed or certain things kind of fall through the cracks because we're not looking at our health from this more holistic perspective which is where I think that Eastern philosophy and perspective kind of comes into play and with Aki Puncture it's really interesting because it's about increasing blood flow into the body and moving energy around. Can you talk a little bit more about the Aki Puncture approach, the science behind it and where it merges with more of like that Western perspective and view? Yeah and I think you said it so well in terms of Julie Holistic, it was kind of what I went to my first Aki Puncture treatment. It was the first time that someone kind of connected all of my body and everything that was going on and so it wasn't blaming one thing on the causing the symptoms but treating everything altogether and truly holistic. So knowing my Hashimoto's was impacting my energy and the inflammation in my body and causing a lot of bloating as a side effect of it and also knowing that my outside stress and anxiety was showing up in my gut and kind of knowing that you're kind of physical and emotional health were very much connected because you are one body and I think Aki Puncture is such a great modality that treats you fully holistically and your emotional health, your mental health and your physical health and it does so by creating as you mentioned blood flow and circulation and really thinking of your body as a head of Aki Puncture kind of always explains it like your body is a sea saw and it's really just trying to balance you out and both from external factors and the environment and your day to day stress and the internal and your body and creating a form of balance through increasing blood flow and circulation in your body and also preventing and eliminating inflammation which shows up for everyone in different ways. Mother of B in your gut, mother of B inflammation in your neck in terrible back pain or you know brain fog and energy inflammation is in your body and Aki Puncture helps to really balance you out and eliminate and ultimately prevent inflammation. So it sounds like inflammation is kind of like that common denominator for a lot of these chronic conditions or conditions that are maybe caused by like lifestyle issues as well right or rather you can have your lifestyle actually be a form of treatment to help kind of alleviate some of these chronic conditions like for example I've struggled with a lot of hormone imbalances and one of the easiest ways to kind of intervene in that is through lifestyle change through diet through proper sleep through low impact exercise and also I've been recommended to do Aki Puncture as a another healing modality but what I've also noticed for myself is when I've done blood work and things of the like in the past inflammation has also been an issue for me and there's different things that will cause inflammation in my body but just curious for you with the different diagnoses that you've had it has inflammation been that common denominator that has been mostly addressed through Aki Puncture. Yeah I think I totally agree with lifestyle I think right now everyone wants a quick fix so you want a magic pill to take everything away and you don't have to do as much of the daily work and the daily practices and so I think Aki Puncture along with some great lifestyle choices really helps it's not can't just do acupuncture and still you know not take care of yourself and expect everything to be better while it definitely helps I think mitigate some of the various issues it's fully lifestyle and for me, inflammation was showing up. I mean, my body was physically inflamed and I had terrible bloating in my stomach along with you know all my limbs and really bad water retention and I was very inflamed and so acupuncture helped to address that inflammation balance out at my body and really helped me in that and I think a lot of people have inflammation shows up in different ways for them and it's very helpful to kind of create that balance. So acupuncture is good for balancing hormones. It's really good for creating your system into emotional and physical balance. And so you were in your mid-20s, you were going consistently and then you decided I'm loving this enough to want to build a business around this. So walk me through your path towards concepting aura and then deciding that you actually wanted to start a company where you're offering this really unique method around acupuncture to people. Like tell us a little bit about that journey. It was it's as linear as you just condense that was like condensed over, right? Yes, but I was going regularly and as I mentioned I was working in New York, but a year later I moved to Boston and started business school and all my symptoms I was fine until I stopped going to acupuncture later into the my first semester all my symptoms came back and I went to find an acupuncturist there and it was really difficult to find someone. And so I was going on Yelp for views and Google searches and I was determined to find an acupuncturist and there are many great acupuncturists in the Boston Cambridge area, but it was hard to navigate where to go and who to trust. But I was determined because I knew how much acupuncture helped me and it was what I needed to feel my best. And I just sort of started thinking so many more people could benefit from acupuncture. They knew more about it, where to go, who to trust. And they had an overall better experience of it. I mean, acupuncture can be intimidating to many people. It is needles, which is not always the most comforting idea, but acupuncture really is so relaxing and is so great on your nervous system. But the experience around it is jarring. So I wanted to create kind of got me thinking as to how could we reshape the experience and educate people more about it. And at the time, boutique fitness was kind of entering its big heyday and boutique wellness was slowly kind of you're seeing cryotherapy and for its sauna and seeing kind of this idea of wellness starting. And you know acupuncture has been around for thousands of years. It's by no means it's not the newest trend, but it's not talked about and people don't know where to access it. And so that was kind of the beginning of what got me thinking around ultimately creating aura. And in that time and business school, I started working with a professor and researching the space, talking to different potential different surveys and interviews, client interviews, and talking a different active punctures across the country to see if there was a general interest in both practicing in this type of environment and then also getting acupuncture. I think that's so interesting how you made this comment around acupuncture kind of being maybe scary to people who don't typically do it because it is needles. And if you're not in this like welcoming environment or if the ambiance doesn't feel comforting in a place where you feel like you can relax and trust your acupuncturist, it does feel a little scary like oh my god there's going to be needles in me. And I remember the first time I did it, I luckily was in a very comforting environment. I actually had tried it for the first time in Bali about oh my god almost four years ago now. And I like loved the woman I was working with. She was fantastic and she definitely put me at ease and I'm the type of person that like really likes to understand where she was putting certain points and how that was related to the science of acupuncture and how it was going to help with certain things that I needed help with. And so to kind of receive more of like the education around the method for me was a really comforting experience. And I also noticed that when I went to aura and I met with the acupuncturist there she walked me through where she was going to put the needles why she was putting them in certain spots and we actually started the session with her kind of interviewing me and asking why I came in that afternoon or that evening and my lifestyle habits and all those things. So can you actually talk a little bit more about that and when you were thinking about how to create this experience, who to bring on to the team, how these acupuncturists were going to interface with their clients, like can you share a little bit more about what was going on in your mind at that point. Yes, trying to think through how a lot of things are going on. But I think first we really think around the overall experience. So from the moment you walk in even from the moment you're on our website. How to make that experience as comfortable and as easy as possible. And in our space, we really think around like the moment you walk in as a sort of moment to kind of decompress in from like craziness of New York City and from your life as a chance to kind of take a deep breath and welcome you into your treatment room and your experience. And so our reception area is also a tea and tonic bar. We have a line of Chinese functional herbal teas that were firmly by an acupuncturist and a really complimentary to all the treatment focuses that after puncture can help so much with. And we have tonics as well, which incorporate Chinese herbs into them with a similar idea. And from that point of the kind of check in and we think of lighting and scent and smell to really bring all of your senses into play and to bring you into more regulated system. And from that point, you go into your treatment room, which is fully private and you have a space to fully disconnect physically you can charge your phone and be disconnected, but also a place to really relax and focus on you. And at that point, you have, as you mentioned, your first session is with full consultation around your health needs and what's going on and each treatment thereafter is fully customized to you and what you're experiencing that day or in general. So whether, you know, for me, I am always going for my constipation is in my digestive issues. It's good to have a constant maintenance plan. I still have whether it be one day my daughter is sick and I want to focus on my immunity or I'm about to get my period and they have really bad cramps or I'm postpartum and my hormones are totally out of whack. We can really tailor each treatment to you and using that first conversation as a place to understand what's going on with you emotionally and physically. And at that point, we've also incorporated red light therapy, which is another form of healing that is really complimentary to acupuncture. The heat of it is one piece of it, but also the benefits on the cellular level, it's hard to say, are really great on your overall nervous system and your overall body. It's great for cellular repair. It's great for inflammation, much like acupuncture and it's also great for stress inducing emotions. And so as you lay there with the needles in, you lay there with the red light therapy and guided breath work and meditation, which we just incorporated just this past summer. So all of those were kind of elements that have built upon one another when I first started working on aura wanted to give that experience and created and then as it's come to life, we continue to innovate around it and continue to find ways to enhance that experience for our clients. And so that's why we're doing that because there's different interventions to like you with the red light, you have the actual acupuncture, you have sound and the meditation and we know that all of these different forms of treatment are really effective in helping with stress management, whether or not you're just doing a breath work or you have a red light mask on or you're actually getting acupuncture. And so I think it's really fascinating to see all modalities come together in one space for creating that maximum feeling of relaxation and healing and an actual place to boost your endorphins. I was laying down and I felt so relaxed, I felt so calm. And I don't know if this is something that I just experience or other people also experience, but I could kind of physically feel tingling sensations moving around my body. Is that the energy that's moving around like the circulation or have you also experienced something similar during your acupuncture treatments. And I think it's amazing that you're so in touch with your body to feel that I think I do feel it not from a for specific points I noticed that there's some points that I feel more and for anyone who's never tried acupuncture acupuncture actually doesn't hurt has your experience has it been ever painful or just what is your experience at all. That's a good question not painful there have been certain moments where maybe you know the acupuncturist has put the needle in and she said do want me to like move it in a different direction let me know if this if there's any discomfort and if I do experience it I'll say it and then she'll read just and it's like I don't feel anything at all. So exactly to your point, it's not meant to be. to be painful is not meant to cause harm to you. And when it's in the right angle and in the right position, you actually don't really feel anything. Yeah. No, exactly. I think like you might feel one point more than others, but overall, it's not a painful thing. And what you are feeling, a lot of times you're acupuncturists will say is the G flowing. And so in Chinese medicine, G is really your energy and your blood flow. And it's your energy throughout your body. And so that is what the needles are doing. It's moving. And you talk a lot around stagnation is the word used in traditional Chinese medicine, which is kind of your blood stagnation much similar to inflammation where there is an area in your body where which is preventing blood flow throughout your system. And so the needles are strategically placed in certain points or meridians, term in Chinese medicine, specific points throughout your body to release the blood flow throughout your meridians of your body. So what you're probably experiencing, which, you know, I think I definitely experienced with specific points that actually a lot of our acupuncturists say, if you feel a point a little bit more, you feel it's not pain, but if you notice it going in, it is oftentimes a little bit more tender and tense where it is more stagnant. And it is releasing that blood flow with that sheet. And so that's probably what you're experiencing, which some people, it's amazing that you do. I think it's happening, even if you don't feel it, because it is happening internally in the subtle way. And it's amazing that you felt that. Thank you. It's a lifelong practice. I feel like to gain more of that attunement to our bodies and to be really aware of what's happening within us. So I do think once you're able to have a really strong awareness and intuition to how your body is feeling, that gives you like 90% of the information that you need and to be able to check in with yourself. But it's so hard to do in such a fast-paced city like New York, like truly it is so hard to feel grounded in your body. And since we're kind of on the topic of this already, I'd love to hear from you if there's any particular practices that you do in your overarching lifestyle, separate from acupuncture that helps you stay a bit more grounded and connected to yourself. I totally agree with New York City. It's so fast-paced. It's very easy to like not even know what day of the week with time. It's all everything's moving so fast. And it's funny because I mentioned we now have breathwork and meditation into the or method and into our treatments. And that really came from my own personal experience. I would always say like, oh, I can't really meditate. I don't have a meditation practice. I actually acupuncture puts me into meditative state. And it's like the one time I am in a world like transformed, but it's not from it's from the placement of the needles and the overall experience in the room or I helps to kind of get me a little more relaxed. But I was like, I can't, I need to learn more about meditation. I know kind of from like a reading way, all of its benefits, but I'm not actually trying to, I'm not doing it myself. So over two years ago, we had an event at Aura and we were doing, it was a meditation event in the new year. And Jamie Graber of organically Jamie was teaching it. And I was sitting there just listening as a guest experiencing it. And after, and she'd let a group meditation, and after, I went up to her and we were chatting. And I ended up we started working together and she became my personal meditation teacher. And she was teaching me and trying to help me build my own practice. And in that time, I said that she should come get an acupuncture treatment. And she did, and she meditated during the acupuncture treatment. And she was like, I had the most transformative meditation I meditate for hours a day and teach it for a living. And this was, took me to different level than I've ever been able to do. And that's really what brought that common, that that's how we brought meditation and breath work into our, or method in our acupuncture treatments. But it's also what kind of has given me the tools to create a daily practice around meditation and breath work. And I am trying to meditate every day. I can't say it's perfect. It's, it is truly, you know, it's kind of like working out where it's not like, oh, you wake up like, I just want to meditate, but it really has helped me and grounded me and giving me that pause. I love to do it, of course, in the, or a method experience, but I find I'm able to kind of take those meditations and do them in a daily way that it brings me back to that space and I can get pretty deep. Yeah, I love how you kind of accidentally stumbled into this idea of having these meditations in part of the aura method. And I think that's honestly the best way. It's like you iterate and then you see what works and you see what other people are experiencing and then you think, oh, well, what if I tried this and what if we offered that and then you start to find ways to even deepen that practice of introspection of relaxation. And it doesn't surprise me that that was probably one of her most deepest meditative experiences because you're kind of already in some sort of flow like meditative state in the acupuncture. I'm curious, have you ever tried sensory deprivation and being in like a sensory deprivation tank, a float tank? Because I've done that a few times, and I love it and I feel a similar head rush kind of even when I do acupuncture. It's that feeling of like really being in tune with your body and disconnecting. I've experienced both sensations from sensory deprivation and from acupuncture. So I haven't tried it. I wish I could say yes, I'm nervous too personally. Everyone has their thing, I'm not nervous by needles by any means, nor should everyone, anyone listening, it's where needles are not scary. And say, I'm sure they have the sensory deprivation. I have to do it. It is on my list because I can totally see and believe in the benefits. So that's okay. The first time I did it, I was a little stressed because they closed the little pot on me and I was like, oh god, this is it. But then I had to take a deep breath and say, okay, if my friend can do this and has done this so many times, I can absolutely sit in here for an hour and do it. And I did it and then I grew to really love it. But I want to go back to this point that you made around not having a "consistent meditation practice." And I don't know, it's so tough because being in the wellness space, right, I have this podcast, I'm a yoga instructor also, like I love everything related to health and wellness. You have a business in the acupuncture world, you've had troubles with your own health and wellness firsthand. You're clearly very immersed in the space. Even being so in the health and wellness world, sometimes it can feel incredibly overwhelming to feel like you have to do every single health and wellness practice to be healthy, right? Like I must do the acupuncture once a week. I must go exercise five days a week. I have to wake up every morning and meditate 30 minutes. It's just so hard. And I sometimes even struggle with this too. I do not have a consistent meditation practice. I wish I did, but I don't. And I've been trying to work on being a bit gentler with myself and not feeling like I need to impose certain rules or responsibilities on myself that I need to check off every single box to be healthy. But rather, be more intuitive with listening to what I actually want to do because you can get really similar benefits from different practices. So maybe you don't need to do every single practice down like the laundry list. But do what feels right for you in that particular moment. And I'd love to hear if you have a similar perspective on that as well or how you've managed to kind of balance what works for you at certain times versus what doesn't as someone who is so deep in the wellness space because I think if maybe we're both feeling this way, people who are just trying to get into that entry point of making their lives a bit healthier may feel like 20 times more overwhelmed than perhaps you and I may feel. So I totally hear you on kind of how overwhelming everything can be and how to fit it all in and also the stress of fitting it in, then it kind of like backfires on your more stressed and you're experiencing everything before I found acupuncture. I was trying everything and was so frustrated that nothing was working. So I was having all these digestive issues and trying to begin or I was trying different foods to help. One of the things was huge. You know, I was just going to eat the kale salads. It was, kale was really starting to be super hot real at the time. And then when I tried when I found acupuncture, my acupuncture is Gabriel, who's now our head of acupuncture was like, that's the worst thing I could be doing. Food should be nourishing and warm in Chinese medicine very much believe one eating kind of what's in season. So whether if it's winter or more of the carrots and parsnips and the summer, your body can handle more salads and cucumber and watermelon, but eating kind of focused on warming foods to help your digestive system. And so I found that instead of trying to run around trying all these different modalities, I focused on getting weekly acupuncture and then eating these more healing warming foods. And that combination really was a small lifestyle change that really helped me and kind of acupuncture has continued to be that one practice that combines the physical, mental and spiritual practice into one for me and focusing on that and then knowing that each day isn't perfect. So I do want to meditate. every day, but some days it might not happen to the end of the day. And to be honest, some days it might not happen. Or I might do it when I'm walking to work, walking for me is really meditative. It's also, you know, if I don't have time to exercise, I find kind of combine it. I'm all into trying to get as much done and combining it. It was also a big piece around the aura method was knowing that your hour is precious and how can we combine modalities that really complement one another, but also save you time. So that is why it has a mixture of red light and meditation into one. But other things I do on a daily basis, similar mindset. So I walk to work instead of as my exercise or I walk and I do a walking meditation, if that's all that I can get in in that day. But it is overwhelming. And so I think it's figuring out what works for you and trying not to, you can't do it all. Yeah, such good reminders. And also being okay with certain practices changing, maybe seasonally, depending on how you're feeling, something interesting. I've even just noticed for myself is we're recording this now. It's February. The start of the year has just been so cold and everyone's been getting sick. And I got pretty sick twice in the month of January. And I was not intentionally going to do dry January, but like it basically kind of happened. And it was fantastic. And I felt so much better in my body. And then I started to notice, and I think it's separate from like drinking less, but maybe more so like the climate and getting sick more frequently. I just wanted to go out less. And whoever is listening and knows me pretty well, like I am such a social person. Like I'm always out. I'm always doing something. And even if it's not going out on the weekends and all of that, like on the weeknight, there's usually a plan lined up every night. Like it just go, go, go. That's just how I am. I love that. It's great, but like it's so important for me at least to kind of scale back a little. And so it's been an odd shock to me that I've been wanting to do way less recently. And stay home more and just be alone by myself. And it's been wonderful. And instead of kind of having certain judgments around that or thinking I should default back to how I typically am, I'm trying to just ride the wave and lean into it. And I think it's the same mindset shift for adopting and like sticking to certain wellness practices. Like if your body is resisting a certain thing, don't do it. You're not going to like it. You're not going to want to keep doing it. It's going to feel like a chore. But if your body is leaning into like, yeah, I actually, I like to do this kind of thing. Just do more of that. And I found that the more you lean into the things that feel good for you, you then start to physically feel better. So you have this intrinsic motivation to just want to continue to do that or to add on to your wellness routine, because you're already feeling good and you're like, okay, I think I can handle this new change. I can think I can handle this new habit. So I've just noticed this recently within myself, like a shift and not trying to resist what's happening, but rather just kind of let it happen and enjoy it because I'm sure once it gets warmer, I'm going to want to be out and about as the rest of the city too. I'm sure, but I really think it's about listening to what you need and not really having any sort of opinion or judgment over it and just letting that be as it is and writing that wave for lack of a better phrase or expression. I totally agree. I think what it's listening to your body and giving it grace to rest when you need to rest. No one knows it better than your body better than you and I think also knowing like it's okay. Like each day doesn't have to be perfect and I mean I for the life, me want to start my morning with hot water and lemon. I started with coffee. It just stressed me out and I was like, I'm going to do it and miss you be the week and I have two young kids and it's just doesn't end up being realistic on vacation. I started with hot water and lemon and I love it. And if I'm feeling like my digestive system really need that, I do, but I think kind of also the senior body and also doing what feels good and what works like it's unrealistic if you have such a busy morning to put extra pressure on yourself. I think you find time to meditate at the end of the day or in between a meeting, I think kind of there is no perfect routine. It's really what feels good to you and what also fits with your life. Yeah, that's such a good word to use realistic. That's exactly what I was thinking of and I couldn't find the word. It's important to be realistic with what works on certain days and what doesn't and just letting that be as it is. And that's also such an important message to advocate as someone who is in the wellness space too, because I think on social media and how a lot of these wellness brands are portrayed or just rather the wellness industry at large, I think it can still feel kind of difficult to permeate or to find your entry point or to feel like you've got it all under control. So I think it's even more important that people who are founders of wellness brands are our wellness ambassadors to certain brands or however you're connected to this space to be really vocal about that message, because I think it really humanizes the entire industry as well. It's all in the pursuit of feeling good. We don't have to like do a billion things at once. That's actually kind of like the antithesis of what it means to be well and to feel well. And to that point, Kim, I'd love to kind of shift the topic a little bit as we're rounding out this interview and bring the conversation to happiness, which is really the ethos of everyday and orphans, the mission of the show, finding things in life that spark joy that bring people in door. So I have two final questions for you. I'll start with the first one and my first question is how do you define happiness? You know, it's funny starting a business. I was for so long focused on an goal. And I opened my first location in our no location March 5th of 2020 and there was after like a couple of years of working on it, we opened 10 days before the pandemic and closed 10 days after we ultimately reopened, but it was a tough time to know and was really doing services in a private treatment room in the middle of a global pandemic, even though acupuncture got deemed as an essential service. So it was it was a rocky start, even though everything in my control went well, it was fully out of my control. And I think from that point, I was so focused on the end goal. I wasn't as much enjoying the journey and I wasn't as happy in the day to day. And it was actually working with Jamie in our meditations that something she said that really resonated was to find what enjoyed the journey, not just the destination. And that really shifted my approach, not so much of what I was doing, but just my mindset on how I was thinking about it. And so I think that shift has really given me a lot of happiness to appreciate so much of the journey, it being a journey, not always linear and to appreciate that day to day and it really still work. I love that it's such an important message and I know Arthur Brooks is so deep in the research around happiness and positive psychology and his whole messaging as well is about being process oriented versus outcome oriented and happiness is not this destination that you arrive to. But really what allows you to feel happy and to feel joy and to have that be something that sustained throughout the course of your life is to put less of your attention on what things should look like or getting somewhere but really learning to enjoy the present moment and that is the process that is the journey. I love that answer. Sorry, just a hand like I doesn't mean that every moment step along the way I is so comfortable and enjoy I think it's still important to have that discomfort and have those challenges it's unrealistic to expect otherwise but it's just knowing it's all part of it has helped. Yeah, definitely like how can you enjoy the things that are a bit hard right like how can you be grateful for those difficult moments when you are able to like take a step back and have perspective and see oh this is just part of the entire journey right so I love that that's an important disclaimer too because I think what causes a lot of our unhappiness is not having the perspective shift and not being able to take a step back. Because you're so in that moment and you're like this is it this is the end but it's not it's just part of the journey and to that point I'd love to end the interview with a question that I ask everyone on the show and this question is really just about finding the things that life that bring you endorphins came so what is something that brings you a bit of joy and endorphins every day. I have two daughters one is three and almost four ones 16 months and so they tire me out and definitely add a lot of but they give me a lot of joy and happiness. I love that well I can't relate because I'm not a parent but I can imagine parenthood being such a joyful experience and it's been such a pleasure having you on the show. Eric and my listeners check out aura visit the space how can they stay connected if they want to learn more about acupuncture like where do they start. So thank you so much for having me this was such a great and fun conversation. You could find us at aura I'd say our Instagram aura or a space the word SPAC same that's our URL as well and we have two locations in New York City one in no home on fourth between Broadway and Lafayette and one on the upper side on 83rd and Madison and if you're not based in New York we have a lot of great aura products. to bring the aura experience and rituals at home. And those are things that I think are great ways to incorporate the practices of aura every day. - Amazing. I'll hyperlink all of that into the episode as well. So for anyone who's listening, you can actually just go and see it directly here in the interview. But this was wonderful. Thank you so much, Kim. Thank you. Thanks, Stella. (upbeat music) Thanks for tuning into this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard and you want to continue to follow along, make sure to like, rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. You can also follow along on Instagram, on TikTok, and subscribe to my subs stack, where I not only talk about episode recaps or events that have happened that month, but I get to dive a little bit deeper into my own perspective and philosophy on joy and happiness and living a good life. Thanks again for tuning in and reminder to keep spreading Endorphins and finding the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time.