EP 144: How to Actually Stop Burning Out - Lincoln Westerman

If someone's burnt out and their nervous systems cook and they're overwhelmed and they're not sure where to look, you just gotta put in the hard work, you just gotta keep making calls and just, you're trying to stack on top of a system that is already at capacity. So even if that was to yield results, there's more demand now placed on this person. But if they haven't built the system or the tools to increase their capacity to hold that demand and if they haven't taken a break or have been intentional about their practices and protocols, what happened? Crumbles. Lincoln Westerman, corporate athlete coach working with Australia's top operators. He's here to show you how to break free from the system that's burning you out. So you stop sacrificing your health, your relationships and your sanity for goals that were never really yours. Last podcast I didn't shut up about what gaming playing. It still rings true to me today. Asking yourself the question, why am I doing this? What will this allow me to experience? What will this $1 million GCI goal that I've set which is completely arbitrary? What will that allow me to experience? What does that allow me to buy? Sure, it's going to buy you freedom. Sure, you're going to have more money. Sure, you can do some more holidays, but what does that allow you to experience? I used to journal every day and I used to write freedom of expression at the end of every page. Because that was the most important thing to me at the time was being able to express freely who I was, my authentic self-haste of being, in real estate where I felt like I was needed to be like this. It was a force to be like that. It was like breaking free. That was the lesson. It was like this kind of like, I can change this if I want. I can change, I can be, I choose. It's a choice. Everything's a choice. It sounds obviously so simple, but that was the profoundness of all of it, was like, I can choose how I want to be. For the people that are listening, that maybe are going through a pain point, they're overstimulated. What's one piece of advice you would share to that person now? That's a good question. Welcome back to another Bo's Sides podcast. Today I'm actually really excited because I've got a friend and a past guest, Lincoln, Westerman, aka. The Big Link. Brother, the reason today is exciting for me is we had obviously our first podcast in Bali and now we're in Byron Bay, Australia. And it's awesome to see and connect again on the podcast because may you are someone that's what we call the Modern Corporate Athlete, aka Mokka, which is your business, you run, where you coach and train high performers and people that are spying to be the best they can be in business, but also life. And I think what's really inspiring for me, and the reason I would love to have you back on, Link is that because I've interviewed some of the top operators and I see some of their pain points on and off air, I think there's definitely demand for changing our industry in real estate, but also outside of real estate holistically. There's a lot of people that are living other people's versions of success. They're maybe not structured when they should be. They're a bit lost in maybe the social media hype and we'll just chatting off air, you know, one of the things that a lot of podcasts do as they say to the person, what's your best piece of advice for here or that, and you're quite against a lot of these traditional forms of communication. And I'd love to provide a lot of value today to our audience who are looking to build a life by design, improve their business performance, their personal self-esteem, how they operate as an individual, whether it be health and fitness, sleep, relationships and just really unpacked your philosophy around these things, mate, because you having been in real estate, gone overseas, done your breath work, done so many different things holistically, you've got and trained some of the best. You've got this unbelievable perspective and wisdom that can be shared. So I hope everyone can really take notes. I've even got my notebook and I usually don't have notes with me, but the reason I want to have notes today is because there's going to be lots of frameworks and goal that we can implement as of today, which can impact and transform our lives. So, mate, welcome back to the most other podcast. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. And thank you for that intro, and that was really nice. You're welcome, man. Congrats on being a new dad, by the way. Thank you. A little H-man is a champion. A little H-man, yeah. What I would like to start today is on the first podcast, People, and I hope you don't mind me saying this, related to how you got quite open with your story, which was really deep in the trenches of real estate. And then you had this experience with the psychedelic, which transformed and changed a lot of things for you. I'd love to bring us back to the story of Lincoln and really unpack who you are and what it is you do and why you do it. And start from there and we'll build out the frameworks as we go. So, Link, could you really share who you are today and why it is you do what you do? Yeah, it's a good question. I think, you know, I was just go-cutting, yes, on Saturday. And I was watching these carts go around and I felt this child-like energy come about me, this competitive spirit. And it took me back to, basically, my childhood growing up with motorbikes, BMX, like all the sports, rugby league, rugby, it was extremely competitive. So I think by nature, I'm extremely competitive. And I've had to learn how to harness that competitive energy into a way that is actually going to be productive for me in a commercial sense, but also fun as well. That's not going to get me injured. So I think business was a good avenue for that. Real estate was a good avenue for that because I could funnel that energy into something. Looking back, what I have done things differently, probably, like, I think I jumped around a lot, like I jumped from sport to sport from, I went to seven different schools. Seven? Six or seven. Six or seven different schools and had to, you know, make new friends and learn different culture and hierarchies from a young age. So I sort of became a chameleon. And within that, I joined various different sports and I probably didn't commit 110% to one for long enough. And that's probably like my biggest regret. So getting to know me is like, yeah, I'm a competitive, intense human. And I'm also very caring, loving, and I like to think kind, but intense. And I love that. I love that about me. So I think, you know, yeah, my stories is like, I think everyone goes through this, this journey for themselves right of finding out who they are. So for me, like, I like to think of myself with someone that is very intentional. I try and seek out new experience. I'm very curious. And I want to give it my all. I want to give life my all. And I want to see what life's got to give. It's interesting though, like having Harvey, just recently, or seven months old, it's changed my perspective on how I live. I'm far more fearful at the moment, actually. Like I think about a death a lot. I've been thinking about it because how I show up, how I drive surfing, snowboarding, you know, when I was just in Sumatra surfing, 10-foot waves, in the back of my mind, I'm now considering Harvey. You know, and what do I want to be like for him? What's the role model that I'm setting for him? So I'm changing. I'm evolving. So like to say, who are you? Is a hard question to answer. In fact, I'm probably not going to because it's evolving. I'm still figuring out who I am. Like just being in this conversation, like speaking now, I'm still figuring that out. And in the intro, you sort of, you said, you know, like you've got many different perspectives. And like, yeah, I have got perspectives, and everyone has perspectives. I've just chosen this path to share my perspective on life. And it seemed to work really well. It's kind of like it provided me with a sense of flow, and that flow has given me a sense of abundance. Talk to me about flow. What do you mean by flow? What is flow? I think flow is a felt sense that is deep, deep presence and connectedness and aliveness. And it is hard to describe, because it is in flow. It's a different sense from your normal conscious and state. The reason I'm asking is because from my experience, anyways, I have experienced life in and out of that flow state, and it's always for me when I'm in flow, present living, things naturally improve. Work, business comes out of thin air. I come to buy in with chill and at the beach. Let's do a podcast. It just, it flowed. When you're coaching these high performers, are most of them in flow, or is your work getting them out of flow into it? I think there's both. I think being in a sense of flow the whole time is dangerous. Well, because you still have to take intentional actions in ways that aren't fun, aren't comfortable, and that's not particularly flow for me. That's not how I associate flow. Doing hard things, I might be able to get myself to a sense of flow within it. If I'm getting into an ice bar, or getting, for example, in Finland, when it's minus 10 outside, and I'm getting up at six o'clock in the morning, it is dark. There's no one's around. There's no one there to talk to. I take myself down, onto the ice, crack the ice, and get in. Am I wanting to do that? No. Am I in flow? Not really. But I get in and I do the hard thing, because I know that, at some point, that's going to give me a benefit. So like, there's still importance of having to do things we don't want to do. And that's not necessarily in flow. But I think if we can, if we're in, for too much in this camp of, you know, thinking, right, then it can be detrimental to our progress. But if we're too much in flow, then I believe that we're not also spending time in things that are also going to be moving the needle. Like in business, managing people, like with some people we're in flow and they manage people for sure. That's great. That's their zone of genius. Some people aren't. Not a lot of the high performance that I work with. They're actually not that great leaders. They've been in the business for themselves. They want to make money. They want to call people. They want to hustle. They want to do the deal. Boom. See you later. When it comes to managing a team, that's a learnt behaviour. And maybe they can find flow in that sense of learning. So I believe that there's both. I can't remember exactly what the question was that you asked. But that's how I think about, you know, high performers is like, I think if you're too much in your head, getting back into your body is important. Because you can find groundedness, you can calm yourself, you can become centred. But if you're too much in your body, too much in flow, you can become a spiritual sort of monk that is not taking any action in a commercial sense. So there's both. But back to your point, we can find a sense of flow as opposed to force more than, you know, having to push things. I think that's where abundance comes from. That's where this sense of magnetism comes from. Does that make sense? It does make sense. And when I hear you, can you teach that in people? And what I remember that is there a framework to develop flow? Is there a structure you run people through each week so they can set up their day for success? Both to stretch and do the ice bath, but then also be in a state of presence where they can just be? Well, I'll ask you, how many agents of you interviewed that are high performance set are sitting across from your preaching hard work? Have you asked in the question, how much fun do you have that's not real estate? Really good question. I would say honestly, a lot of people that are the top 1% are there because they've made the choice to sacrifice other areas and double down on the things that the actions that when you do the actions get a result. I think that process is where they find the fulfillment rather than doing things outside of that to get that sense of fulfillment. So I'd say most of them aren't doing things outside of work to derive that sense of happiness. I think their happiness is derived from doing what they do. And they get momentum spikes. So like an agent like you said does a deal that gives them that sense of momentum and happiness to transpire into the next activity. However, what I've observed is that you can get caught in that trap and the trap being that your. that process requires a certain fuel source and stress on the body. If that's your only mechanism of deriving the sense of fulfillment and happiness, that's where I see a lot of these agents develop illnesses. They're relationships maybe aren't where they want or should be. You can get caught in this kind of destination addiction of that fulfillment there. So it's interesting you speak to this and I'd love to hear your perspective. I think if you really want to be the best, you've got to do what's required to get there. But at the same time, I'd ask yourself is that what success is for you? Because for me that's not. I've had, for example, the last six weeks I've been on a sprint. And I've sacrificed everything else for this sprint period. And I've realized in that process that that's not success to me. Although it moved the needle further faster, I sacrificed that flow that. I was busy getting there. Yeah. I mean, you make an interesting point. But I think what I was speaking to, right, because there was a few words that you said. You said fulfillment and then you said happiness. But I'm talking with. I just asked about fun. And then you moved it onto fulfillment and you know, needn't be doing things at the top. But I'm more referring to like, I think when people have fun, they're in a sense of flow. Yeah, I'd agree with that. So it's not necessarily that they need to have fun to have happy or they're not happy because they're working so hard and they. That's like a different set of questions. Question is like, I think when most people have fun doing something outside of a work basis, they can find themselves in a sense of flow. And their mind, their brain can switch off. I agreed. Right. And so having a switch off, a patent interrupt, I think is really important. So what I. I think that makes sense. And then the success in happiness like that's a different conversation. I'd say a lot of them get that fun or that reset from exercise, with it be gym, poli-d. Something that takes your awareness away from work into another activity where you can switch off from that to come back. See, I don't necessarily see it that way. I think a lot of the people that I work with, they're not finding exercise is like amazing fun. I think at some point it becomes fun. But it's more like, I need to do this because I feel shit. Yeah. I don't look how I look, how I want to look. Not feeling how I want to feel. I want to feel better in the morning so therefore I go to the gym. I don't think they go on like, you know what, I want to have fun. I'm going to the gym. Yeah. You know, I think if you asked any of them, would you prefer to go to the gym or would you prefer to go snowboarding or surfing or play tennis or play paddle? I think a lot of them would probably choose the fun like you did to. So the reason I bring that up is because one of the questions that I. Sorry, not one of the questions, one of the interventions that I like to work on is like bringing fun back into their lives. And that starts from just creating some space outside of their calendar. That's got nothing to do with thinking. We're needing to be somewhere or be someone or achieve a accomplish. For me, it's like competitive sport. I just love to be in that environment. I can let off steam. I was playing paddle with Mitch Lambert, who just moved back to the goalcose to start Pizzett Matheson as a director. Hey, we're bantering the whole time. It was fun. I wasn't trying to be a coach. I wasn't trying to be this version of Lincoln that has wisdom. Like, "No, I was just being myself chatting a bit of shit." A bit of shit. Having fun. So I think that's probably what's missing because I think a lot of. When you think about the top 1%, I listen to a few podcasts recently and a few interviews. I think the very top 1% of 1% actually find the fun in the game. But a lot of the guys I work with, like, they enjoy the deal and enjoy the chase. Do they enjoy making calls? I would say not really. They learn to justify and they're head that it's fun because it's easier to do the work. And it's required to do what needs to be done. But I don't think they're sitting there going like, "Can't wait to make calls." Like, maybe they are some of them because they're like, "I know that the activity and opportunity that is generated from these calls." Outweighs. You know, it is far, the net benefits way better. There's more money, more opportunity, more income. But they're not like, "Is this the finest thing ever?" Yeah. You know? No, I agree with that. Maybe the conversations they have on there, they find themselves in a sense of flow. Because naturally, charismatic, enthusiastic, salespeople, curious. It does. And I can think of a handful of people straight away, not have been to the rude recently. Like you say, they are doing these activities for a result rather than just for the basis of having fun and being themselves. What's your perspective on that? What? People that are just so, "I have to do work, I have to do gym, I have to do. " I have to, I have to, I have to. how. what's your. Well, it depends what they're sitting in front of me for. Like, I couldn't care less, actually, if that's what they want to do. But if you're sitting in front of me saying, "I'm fundamentally not happy, I'm not energized, I'm not really enjoying myself and haven't done for a set period of time," then I will have a conversation around what we need to do, what might be a different way of living. Let's see if we can take the blinkers off and ask some better questions. Because I think that is one of the sole problems, not just in real estate, but in human existence, is the ability to ask better questions. Or to just question things. Why am I doing this? I think I've lost podcasts, I didn't shut up about what game you're playing. Like, asking yourself the question, why am I doing this? What will this $1 million GCI goal that I've set, which is completely arbitrary? Sure, you can do some more holidays, but what does that ventilated experience? Because that's the basic answer. I think people only go sort of one layer deep with questions. I think my job is to just ask them better questions so they can have a potentially different opportunity. If people want to go hard and make an interview other day with one of the Sydney agents, he was Nick Wise and I've been breastfed. He was up at $3.50 in the morning. I actually held the same perspective as I have. I was like, "Probably not something I'd recommend to everyone, but if you love it, brother, go for it." But the majority of people that I speak to in the real estate industry don't love it. I think they've been competitive in sports. And then they take the same approach of like, "If I do this well enough, I can get the same level of fame, success, status, money." And they learn to love it, but do they inherently love it? I don't know. I don't know. I think people love negotiation and psychology. I think that's very stimulating for people. What are some of the better questions we should be asking ourselves if we want to have more fun and build? Because do you find that people don't know what they don't know and what I remember that? People may think they're enjoying life, but then they actually, there's things that they could be doing differently to enhance it. Or people come into because they actually know they aren't enjoying things and they need to change. I think the second. Like for sure, I don't particularly enjoy having conversations with people that in a coaching sense, I mean. Like if I have to work really hard to identify the problem, they're probably not enough pain to really want to change. So generally speaking, they've got enough pain and know that something's not right. And there are a hit this point where they're like, "Fuck, now I've got to message him. I've just like, I've got to do something. I have to change." But to answer your question like, what are some of the questions that I would advise? It's really dependent on what their set of circumstances are. But I think like a really easy question that people just, like they forget about is like, when they tell me the whole story and they go into the premise, what does it you really want? What does it you really want? I don't know. What does it you need? What is it you're feeling? What are you experiencing? What would you like to feel more of? How is it you want to be in five years time? What are you saying in 12 months' time to yourself? If nothing changes in 18 months, how would you feel? What does it look like? What are you saying to yourself? Who are you hanging out with? How much money are you earning? What does that allow you to experience? How many holidays are you taking? What are you doing for fun? It's very like sometimes like what is 10% difference of a level up of your life look like? Sometimes seemingly simple questions that open up kind of like more questions, more questions. So the next question that I ask is why? Why? Why? Like what's your goal? I'll give you a goal of mine now with the podcast because we're on the podcast and that's the interview Tony Robbins. Why? My wife was 19 when I went to a Tony Robbins seminar and it was one of the catalysts for me taking action, changing my life and getting me out of a period which wasn't as fun. And so what would that specifically give you? So it'll be like that full circle moment where it's like I've gone on my heroes journey and I've accomplished it and then I can share that back to that younger version myself and share. Is there a reason why you need to interview him in order to fulfill that? Well, if we're talking in a podcast and who would I love to interview, there's nobody I would love to interview more than him. So in terms of a person, because I've been through on every seven hours and it kind of kickstarted me to dream and aspire to do something like this. And it just be like that full circle moment of interviewing your coach or your mentor. Yeah. How would that make you feel? It would have made me feel like I've accomplished a goal, a big goal. It would make me feel like that young man that had such a hard upbringing was able to use that for something productive and in the process can then inspire and share that to my younger version of myself for you there. What would that allow you to experience? Sharing that to the next version. Yeah, it's like a sense of fulfillment, achievement, proud pride, expanding beyond myself. As much as that process of getting to that goal required me to upgrade and evolve and evolve and evolve personally along this path, this mission. I just got back from a Graham home Christmas party and at this Christmas party I had so many people come up to me saying, "Dan, you, me listening to your podcast has literally changed my financial life." That's so good. We had like one couple that we gave away 20 grand soon, they were coming up to me like, "How come you maybe took photos?" I was just. I didn't start that specifically to create that. It's just been a byproduct of me following my path. But that's been such a reward, it's just like, "Ah, you know, I think people said all the time, once you hit a certain level, that next level of fulfillment is when you help more people." So I'm kind of doing a bit of both. Just from this one goal, it's like, "Why did that even start?" It's just my blueprint, my power. Yeah, I love it. It's like a series of maybe five questions is so much to know about you. I think you've obviously spent a lot of time thinking about your goals and your why, and so it's very clear. But there's obviously some other threads that you can pull and you mentioned pride and fulfillment is that the only way that you could feel that sense of pride and fulfillment is reaching the pinnacle of Tony Robbins. I think it's because it's such a big. Like the top goal you could set in a commercial sense of the podcast, I think, is it? That's what's. Well, I think for the podcast, I was like, "Who is a higher level of interviewing than Tony Robbins?" For me, I see him as the top, that zero zero 0.1%. For me, that's like, it's such a big goal that to get there is so inspiring. And it's actually, it doesn't feel that far away when I think about it. No, well mate, it's cool because we face a Michael Lane the other day and he actually reached out to see if we could get him out. Every conversation, every time I share the goal with somebody, it's moving at that one step closer. And I think that's one of the things that I've learned about success is you just got to share more and get challenged more. But also, because of the conviction that you have within that, people are magnetised towards you and then doors open. So in the setting of like asking an agent like, "What is their goals?" It could be a random number from their lead agent or the director or the principal that they think they need to hit. But they haven't asked these follow-up questions, which means when things get tough, how are they then going to perform? There's nothing pulling them through. So your vision is pulling you, right? You're like holding on by the rose, and you're like, "Now this thing is taking you all this shit." Like wakeboarding, you've got to get pulled out, right? I actually want to do this. But a lot of people that I find don't have that conviction when you peel back the layers. And that's not necessarily a problem, but it's one of the challenges that I see agents face that I work with. When you identify that challenge, is it then getting them to identify what they're true-wise or is it setting in a different target? I guess I don't get them to do anything. I just asked the question. I think there's a series of questions that we can go into. And the questions that I would ask is based on their response. You mentioned pride and fulfillment, so I would follow that thread. It's a pride and fulfillment. I think what I learned in NLP, which is neuro-linguistic program, is these meta-programs. And one of the questions is, "What specifically? How specifically?" So if you're just like, or why specifically? Those three questions can just kind of continue to guide people. So next time you're in a conversation, you're really good at this because you're an interviewer. So you're naturally very curious and you can pull things out of people. But there's rough handles and there's soft handles, right? So I ask questions to people that I might ask you, so tell me more about your goals. They might have something around financially finances that they're just not comfortable with. And so they kind of like dart around it. I want to just make a lot. How much is a lot? I'll like, you know, enough to feel free. Well, how much is it to feel free? What do you need to feel free? I'll just need to take care of, you know, I need to go on holiday. How much are your holidays? So that's like a rough handle. So I kind of like stay away from that sort of area because they're not ready to go there. Yeah, right. Because there's no point trying to. This is one of the challenges. What I learned in breathwork specifically was like when a new client came to me and they were completely dysregulated, sleep issues, anxiety, racing heartbeat, like if they lay down on the table right in clinic and I start to, you know, facilitate them. If I notice that they don't have much capacity and they're going to start getting into an experience, like I've taken them too far within that because they're their first time breather. Why would I try and take someone to 100%? They system can't handle it. They're not used to it. So I start at 5%. So in my. And so that's. That would be like a rough handle. So a soft handle is like someone that's open like you. You've thought about it. You're actually proud of the goal. Yeah. You know why and you're like, "Fuck you, I can't wait to share this with everyone." So. And I saw it. You can keep going. And that takes report. It takes, you know, empathy, compassion, certain types of questions, experience, it's like the set of questions that you are asking radically determine the response. So we're just reading each other. Right? We're quite open. A lot of people aren't. And a lot of agents aren't either. And that's okay, by the way. Anyone that's listening, if you're feeling like you're in the car and you're like, "Yeah, I definitely don't want to be talking about my goals and finances with people." I'm like, "Awesome." But we probably wouldn't work well together. It's really interesting because from my experience, the more open I have become through different things, whether it be meditation, breath work, sharing my goals, playing medicine, the more I become open, the more I'm vocal with that, the better things progress and evolve. Do you think people should actively seek to become more open or by just the way of how life naturally occurs, they will become naturally more open or not just by the mere sheer of them just living? So what's the question specifically? When you were talking about some people, you can go, you'll press them and there's a bit of resistance there than some people like myself with this question, "I wasn't a lot more open." I found when the more open I have been to life, the more I can receive and then life gets better and more fulfilling. When you're working with people or there's people that are maybe more close off, should these people try to actively take actions to help open themselves up whether it be meditation, breath work, working with the coach, or do you think just by a natural way of life they will may or may not become open? Do you think people should invest in opening themselves up? Is the question. The answer to that one is yes. How they do that is. It's depending on the industry and what your goal is, is kind of irrelevant. But if you are moving towards being more open, I think that's a really positive thing. That's what I'd say. The more open that I have been, like come back to the questions thing, right? If you've only ever asked two questions, what are the. There's probably minimal answers, right, that you get. Or options. Let's look at it that way. There's minimal options. The more questions you ask, there's more potential options and answers, right? From that, then you can discern what is going to most aligned decision or option for me. So when I think about like, is someone better off being open or not? I say, well, do you want to have more options as to how your reality is? Yes or no? What's the likely answer? Yes. Of course. Would you prefer that to be better? A better reality for you or a worse reality? Better. Better. Okay. So we can generally start to now discern what is going to be a more beneficial decision for you. So, of course. But I'm never like you should. It's in like you're obligated to be open. Like, when I speak to my dad sometimes, or my brother and my sister, or even my partner, maybe he's a people. And like, they're not willing to, they're not wanting to go where I believe would be a smart or wise decision. That's okay. In fact, I like, I welcome that. Because I'm like, great, you've made that decision. That's sick. Love it. But when someone hires me to come into their corner and coach in specific areas, not teach, like ask questions. And different areas. Yes, I encourage to be open. Curious. Like a lot of people, like I do a lot of conflict actually. A conflict management would be like a big thing. Yeah. And what I find is like, people like to, when they get attacked, or someone's like, you know, coming at them, whether it's a colleague or buyer, they actually natural tendency is to kind of like, walk up and then sort of go back at them on the offense. But what I like to do is seek to understand, not seek to destroy. So I get curious again around like, well, what's your intention with that question? What's your intention behind the way you're speaking right now? It's like a really great question in conflict. So I just ask more questions. And like, if I'm not open, and I'm not wanting, not in the mindset of asking questions, I can't possibly now understand that person. And so I'm going to, like, I'm going to now fall back on my patting me, my coping mechanisms, my survival strategy, which is like probably on the offense. That's what I would, was like previously. And like, would never come to a conclusion. And if we don't come to a conclusion, it's likely that your needs aren't getting met. My needs aren't getting met. And there's a misalignment. So how do we find more alignment? And I believe it's asking questions. Now, if you ask questions, you just really don't agree. That's great. That's awesome. I love that. Do you know what I mean? I think that was a bit of a long-winded detour. But. Sounds like for you, a lot of the work you do is about asking the right questions. And that creates answers rather than you saying you need to do this, or this is right or wrong. Yeah, I think that's one thing that I've set people apart that coaches and teachers. Like, teachers are teaching you something. Like, how to tie your shoelaces. Like, do this. Do that. Cross it. So like, real estate coaches are great because they're like, make these calls. Say this, like this negotiation. Say it now. You know, like, it's very kind of like linear. Whereas a coach is, or in my opinion, question-based. So we've got a set of tools from learning. Right. So, breathwork, nervous system, nutrition, movement, jiu-jitsu, surfing, my real estate career. There's like a set of tools that I've invested in. And so from that toolbox, I've discerned what are some important questions that allow me to use those tools effectively. And those questions I ask people. And it seems to do really well. And that's when, you know, becoming a master practitioner in NLP was so important for me. Working with my breathwork teacher, Edward Dangerfield, nervous system specialist. He'd been through two avalanches. He sat with the first nations in America in circle, learning their ways of sharing. And, you know, so he's actually passed on his tools to me. Well, Philips, Andrew LaDelle, both mentors of mine. Pass on the tools to me. So now I have a set of questions and a set of understanding that's helped me navigate the world. And so I can, that's something that I like to share and ask. Yeah, it does. And at certain points like, you know, if someone was like, "I need to lose weight." Well, it's pretty clear that there is a scientific way to lose weight. Yep. So it sounds like if a person comes to you at the pain point, you start by asking them a series of questions to help them identify what options could serve them best. And based on your tools that you've built over time, you can prescribe or suggest or guide them into different things to help maybe regulate their nervous system if one of their pain points is they're a bit of a work or burnt out. Yeah, that's assuming it plays a start as the nervous system. Yeah. I like to segue. Yeah. That's good. So, like, I've developed my own framework of what I believe is advantageous for a high performer that is struggling with energy, time, and happiness and quality of life. Would you say they're the main pain points? Yeah, I think sleep, anxiety, decision, lack of confidence with decisions is a big one, like self-doubt. And, uh, yeah, fatigue energy, like, you know, just all over the shop chaotic, you know, that's generally the terms that are here. I've developed the framework when I believe from this that what I've learned as to what is an advantageous framework and I've tested that hundreds of times, and it yields results. But within each protocol, right, because they're protocols or interventions or whatever you want to call them. There's a set framework of how to like move through it. So, like, I always start with the nervous system and sort of health base first. Then we look at the internal operating system. So, like, resetting the foundation of the human of the agent is so important because it's like most real estate coaches or most coaches in general. If they play the hustle harder, like, listen to the podcast. If someone's burnt out, right, and their nervous system's cooking their over well, and they're not sure where, like, where to look. But this, this agent says, you just got to put in the hard work, right? You just got to keep making calls and just like you're trying to stack on top of a system that is already at capacity. So, even if that was the yield results, there's more demand now placed on this person. But if they haven't built the system or the tools to increase their capacity to hold that demand, what happens? Crumbles. Crumbles. Happens at time and time again. Now, the time of which they get to crumbling varies based on the person. But at some point, it always happens. And if they haven't taken a break or have been intentional about their practices and protocols, what happens? Like you said, it just doesn't work out. So, yeah. So, there's a framework that I believe this is always the most important. So, can you talk to myself and the audience what actually, how does the nervous system work and how does it broken down simply so that people can get a gauge of where they're at with the nervous system and what a maybe a couple of protocols that we could consider utilizing on a daily basis. Yeah, I think like that could be a whole podcast within itself. But in simple terms, you've got like your autonomic nervous system governs how you feel, how you breathe. Every time you inhale, it activates, right? Your sympathetic nervous system goes up. You feel energized every time you relax. Exhale. He relax. If you're in a state of fight, flight, deal falls over survival mode. Generally, most people in this audience will know what that feels like. They know when they're kind of operating a survival mode or like on adrenaline. That means that the norip and effron hormones is just being flooded, right, with hormones. Their cortisol is up. Their energy is just irregular. They're feeling irritable, angry, like anything could fall. Like they could just fly off the handle at any point in time. And they'll start probably getting sick at some point if they keep doing that because their immune system starts to shut down. Are there any situations where being in that state's productive or supportive? Yeah, we'll need it to survive. Like we need it to every inhale activates us. It's being as energy. We want to run away from a tiger, sure you need to get up and bolt, right? You need to fight. You need to defend yourself. That's a really good reason to be in that state, right? But let's say in the general sense of real estate and performing commercially. Are there any situations where you'd maybe take a client that's nodding that state to test the waters in that state? Yeah, I think it's a really good question. I think to build resilience, you kind of need to find that edge. But if they find that edge for too long and then just like more things start piling on top, that becomes their new norm. And then it becomes, it feels unsafe to then come back to the green zone, which is relaxed. Isn't that interesting? It is interesting. Yeah, I mean, we habituate as humans, right? Yeah. And we develop maladaptive breathing patterns on top of that system. So if we have always been like cross, I use CrossFit as a good example because it's a high energy, like high octane. So when I breathe in there, like always just breathing into their chest. They're never breathing deep down here at all. Right? And you've got three diaphragms of rest. So you've got your throat, your ribs and your pelvic floor. And how this moves determines the volume, how much CO2 being like, there's so many different things. And it just doesn't like if you're if you're if you habituate to one breathing pattern, you likely feeling one. Like your experience is likely to be representative of how you're breathing. Yeah, it's an interesting one because I know from my experience, I was doing CrossFit there for a good couple of years. And when I was doing that level of training and intensity, stacked on with the work demands and the goals I had commercially, I became aware that that wasn't super supportive. It wasn't I was kind of getting the higher of CrossFit and training and this and maybe doing it out of a desire to want to change my appearance or my strength or what have you. I want to ask myself why and what's my primary goal. It wasn't actually supportive in the equate. It was kind of just like what I was doing. And it's been interesting having stopped that and my physical activities walking. It's maybe doing a polarities class with easy. It's it's the intensity in the man is reduced significantly. It's been really interesting to observe how much more productive I've been in other areas. And that won't work for everyone and there's a period of time where I needed to do that. And that was what built me the morning like working up early to do my CrossFit, giving me energy momentum to do my work. But then I was asking, well, am I dependent on that to work? Am I am I happy? I was like, Danny, are you happy with doing what you if you have to do CrossFit or have to go to the gym in the morning to set yourself up for the day. Is your day set up for success or you just band-aiding a problem? So for me, I was asking that I started asking these different questions and I've noticed for me and all that comes back to being okay with changing your desires. Like if you were to say to me, even at the start of this year, like if someone is a Dan you wouldn't be lifting weights at the start of this year but you're crazy. There's no way I'm so identified with that type of training. There's no way. But I've shift that desire and that belief internally and just and that's allowed me this space to not have to be working out where if I want to I can but I don't have to and I've switched my routine and it's allowed more energy in other areas. I just felt like sharing that bit. I love that man. It's interesting actually like because there's a lot of parallels between people that are working right like one guy recently who you know the eight ATO is coming after him. So bro, do you want to open the door? Is it open that door because the aircon's on and that will naturally just leave it open. Sorry bro, that's okay. Yeah, over client he, the ATO is coming after him and you know his nervous system was was completely shot. He didn't he didn't say my nervous system is shot but he was presenting with all these symptoms of like you know self-doubt, ruminating mind, sleeping was was hard waking up in the middle of the night beating hard. He then like to get back into shape his answer back into sort of rhythm was okay I need to wake up five o'clock need to go for a ride. You know four times a week and you go to the gym and do all these things and I was like mate like is that actually supporting you like how you feel doing that is that is that your belief system saying that if I do X Y Z it will support me or is it is a data saying that hey if I do this it will support me. And he hadn't been for a ride on any gym in the last 12 months because he's been so stressed. So what we did was we peeled it all back and I just said like I just want you out looking at the sun. I want you looking at sunset and we're going to get phone away that's it. That's all I want you to do tell me how that goes. And fast forward like a week is like mate I feel incredible why because you think about like he's now not putting pressure himself to need to get up and go to the gym or go for a massive ride. He's he's getting back into sync with his sleep in a circadian rhythm which means his melatonin is being regulated as cortisol is being regulated is adrenaline is being regulated is no is digestive system can be regulated. He can actually just start to come back to equilibrium the phone away means he's not getting stimulation is not thinking about what's going to happen and what's this email I've got work to do what calls am I going to make is this vendor come back to me what's the negotiation that where we at. So there's no stimulation from you know seven o'clock at night right and we're looking at sunset so he's getting you know just incredible light for his brain. So when we talk all that away and slow down and you could get back into bed and it can fall asleep like the body is infinitely wise it wants to come back to equilibrium. If we give it the chance and so now what have we done we've introduced now a ride a week so we're taking him back up a little bit he wasn't eating in the morning right he was fasting until like one o'clock or so he sometimes even dinner. And then you would have a black coffee in the morning so his system was naturally stimulated and up on this essentially fake energy and also like the adrenaline from what's going on that his whole system was just jacked up and he was getting sick. So we introduced some food early in the morning again not early but like I think it was like nine o'clock to start with and it was some protein because in a height instead of when it's like your body needs fat and it needs protein and it needs carbs obviously. But when in these states it starts to take a lot of brain power and you know so nutrition was really important bring him nutritious food is a lot of conversation around fasting and in a minute fasting and it's interesting how you bought that food back in in the earliest well from my experience what I've understood is that food is his parasympathetic so it's it can actually bring you back to a restful state sort of like I could be a big carb meal people fall asleep. Yeah it's because you've had a big meal like a serotonin going through your body and you can go tired so anyway we brought it right back so we're like okay no more fasting let's get your system fueling properly let's get your nervous system regulated let's get your circadian rhythm back and check and let's just see how you feel sure enough feels fucking amazing right amazing now he's had brought in oysters he brought in more you know some nutritious foods more diversity. So we started to fuel his system and getting back into regulates regulator state bringing his meals at the same time every day so his body can expect when to when to be fueled now now then we bring in maybe a bit of a work program. But it wasn't immediately and that was over a period of time where we he could I he could I go to journal every day so we're following everything but I wasn't saying like you have to do this I was like this is an opportunity for us right here we can either try this or we don't let's look at this as an experiment. If it doesn't work you don't feel better we can course correct if you do let's keep going. If it of course he feels better and I have countless stories of that where I've actually slowed them down as opposed to speeding them up so if you hear the podcast I get got to get up at 5 a.m. But I think 5 a.m. is actually really nice time to be up at the moment but if you need to do that and you need to go to the gym you're not getting sunlight you're not out breathing on the grass you're not grounding. You're not having some food you're stimulated first thing in the morning right before bed you got these additional stresses on you like yeah there's there's a different way to look at it as a different plan. Yeah it's so it sounds like for you one of the first protocols or places the start is with the nervous system understanding where your position and getting that person back to more of a balance equally equilibrium point before you're adding additional yeah I think the nervous system can still be confusing for people so the way to think about is just like a body reset yeah like you're resetting yourself. Yeah so you're basically wiping the hard drive clear and you're starting fresh and then you're building on a good foundation then you can start building intentionally so it's not just like okay now let's chuck it all back on like first week of my program everyone does no coffee then we remove processed sugars then we move we just start to go down the reset I get them to clean their car their cupboard their fridge we're resetting everything. Do you people able to reintroduce things like caffeine or stimulants or is that some of your again? It's up to them so the question I asked was like how is this what is this allowed you to feel? How is your relationship to this now? And usually what I'd say is people say I feel like I feel like I've earned it like I've earned to have a coffee and I had client last week he was going to Sydney as I can't wait to have a latte at this one place and I was like we've done this for one week the first four days you had headaches you were coming over the relationship to coffee you've had three days of good sleep is that enough for us to reset? And when he really thought into it he was like probably not to be honest I was like what would it be like if we had one more week of really good sleep and clean energy where you didn't need to rely on that. Oh fuck yeah that would be pretty good. So day four day five comes link I feel amazing I feel like I don't have a reliance I feel like I don't even need it anymore. Awesome let's see how you feel next week and it just keeps happening it's getting better and it gets to a point where the society of discipline and discernment where it's like you've been disciplined enough to understand then the relationship and the effects and then you can decide okay should I introduce this or not. And what happens is usually introduce and they'll come back to the black link this is how I felt wow I couldn't believe I just noticed this crazy thing I don't think I need to anymore. Okay what would it be like to have one? Yeah okay if I want to have one what time should I have that? Do I fast before and then have coffee or should I eat first and then have a coffee and so we can have another conversation around health there and how that makes them feel. Should people eat before coffee? It's up to them like in it depends again it depends on depends on their like what their systems telling us and I think that's probably one of the most important points for me is like how do I. How do I invite them to be able to listen to their themselves more intentionally without it becoming a scapegoat. So for example sleep would be really important right. One client he would always sleep in or not go to the gym. I mean I just I didn't feel like I really just didn't feel like at this morning. Well like well you haven't been disciplined for even one week even to like how could you decide whether you feel like what or not. Like what is your reference point for feeling like it is it your legs feel like they're aching and all my can't even stand up do you feel sick. Well no I just felt a bit tired. Well are we going to continue to rely on how we feel to do the thing that we know is going to make us feel better in the long run or we're just going to. We're going to take the easy route. Are you taking the easy route. Look probably I was yeah. So that would be like a discipline discern we're like I don't think that there needs to be a period of discipline and rigidity actually believe that. For you to determine yourself is this supportive or not. So yeah so as much as the practices are about getting you back to a more harmonic balance state. Maybe in times getting there requires you to be more disciplined or do things outside of your comfort zone to get you back to a more comfortable state. Yeah I think it's like I look at as like supportive behaviors are unsupported behaviors and supportive behaviors are taking us towards our end goal. And unsupported and not so like continually relying on how you feel but then being able to check in like it's a kind it's a fine line that's where like the self awareness piece is a long journey. And so I sort of say like he can't just develop it immediately and be like I know everything. Do you find you have clients linked that have goals that conflict their health for example they want to achieve this massive outcome but in the process of doing that. They do actions or unsupported behavior that really can impact the health. Definitely. Should people be questioning their goals or should they be questioning how they get there. What do you think both. I think there's a lot of personally I have to that there's a lot of people that have these goals based on fear driven behavior they're not necessarily their true. Go that if they were non fearful set. But I don't think people have. Maybe an awareness or capacity to change that. So why not. Let's say somebody's super self conscious within themselves and based on that. There's this desire to change how they look. Which then puts them into this drive to go to the gym wake up and they're maybe doing the ice bar. They don't all these stacked activities to achieve this. Manufactured outcome that they've set because they're insecure with what how they are now. I think that people. Like if I if I go from my experience if you're. It's funny the less I've needed to check to train or do something for my physique that the more it just naturally is good or better. But it's taken a while to get there where I needed to at the at a stage train and transform to get that confidence. Yeah. So it's been interesting from my experience in that that. Tancy question just as you're sharing I popped in my mind like I have an idea that. Philosophy that I use myself. Because what you're speaking to a sacrifice I think like the undertone is sacrifice like you willing to compromise on sacrifice on something to get to end result. And so I think the answer is yes we all need to do that. But we need to decide is that sacrifice worth it is it's something that we want to do continually offer how long. So the idea of sacrifice like I believe it's in Latin it actually means to make sacred. So a lot of people think of sacrifices like I need to give up my friends I need to give up something. But I look at is like I am offering this away because I'm willing to make this thing sacred. So for example like if someone wants a goal of a million dollars GCI or even five million dollars in the sense of one of these agents dollars is seen to. In order for him to achieve that he has to make sacred his his work practice. And he needs to offer up his time with his partner with his friends with hobbies with this morning with his evening. Everything basically in order to make this. Sacred but I would if I had to guess and I interviewed him he would probably have an idea above why he wants to achieve that. Well because I've got an investment strategy and I've got this and I can do that and you know in 10 years time I've got a team of seven and I can do this. So he would be more intentional. So he's willing to play that game because he understands it is his intentionally stored about it. And the payoff is in and he really enjoys it so it's not like I'm making a sacrifice like is his health dialed yet probably is that's why does the routines at 3 30 in the morning to get himself to that ready to that point. So I think it's like the question is what are you willing to make sacred and what are you willing to offer up as a way to. To make that happen. It's a really interesting one and time because everyone's individual but it's something I've been thinking about as I've progresses. As humans do we set things to make them sacred because we actually want that or we're doing it. Or subconsciously or is it somebody else's version of success. It's probably all of the main which is yeah probably and it's up all then how much energy or time do we spend trying to bring awareness or intention around that is that we've just got to have a crack in life naturally unfolds or should we be more diligent with this stuff you know. I think we're trying to pinpoint this conversation to a black and white. It's really not. It's great. There's no right or wrong here. At least from my own experience like if I look if I continue to take the mentality of this is either good or bad. This is right or wrong. Then I get pigeon hole pretty quick and I then have expectations that likely won't get meant. And I put pressure on that. But if I can remain humble I have humility and I can remain in the gray area a little bit which is not necessarily nice at times because it's also like a bit of the unknown. But then I have faith in what I believe is within alignment to my values. Then I'm like I can have faith. That's the big one what you said along with your values now isn't it? That's probably one of the most important questions for people. It's like if someone was watching your day to day actions would they know what what what values you live by or what you stand for? So he did have a sheet of paper with written values versus what action do you think is it? What's that sorry? It's easy if people just write a list of what they perceive their value versus the action. Correct. So like most like when you asked me like who is Lincoln and I was like intentional. I'm kind I'm caring I'm intense. If you look at my sport. If you look at how I live my life my day to day actions you'd be like that's pretty accurate I believe. Like I'm I'm ferociously passionate with my with my work. I'm ferociously passionate about what I believe in. My sport my family like I'm in I'm intense. I'm kind I believe I like to do the right thing by people like morally right. I'm I'm caring and I like to give back. I like to offer things to my friends. I like to do things for people. I'm intentional like a lot of people would used to probably call me like I'm like a robot. But I'm just extremely intentional and I know what game I'm playing and so therefore like it's very easy for me. I like to feel healthy. So that's why I take care of myself. I moved the bar because I want to be in the sun. I want to have the lifestyle like I didn't bother and have the autonomy. You know I wanted to live close to the ocean so I could be there every morning. And being in an environment where there's something pretty much you know all year round. Yeah. So if I'm just reflecting now if I'm looking back at my actions I'm like yeah. And if I look at the balance scale right now it's actually probably more towards business. And I am I demand is like it's like red lines. Like the demand plays some is quite high. Talk to me about that. What part? The demand on you is quite high. You're redlining in business. Well I just I have built myself to the point where I'm nearly at capacity with my one-to-one clients. Like I work with 17 people right now. And that changes depending on where they are in the program. One-to-one. So that's I don't know exactly how many calls it is a day but four to five something like that. And there's prep, then there's content, then there's managing the business. And you know everything that's around it. So it's pretty full day and also the the sessions are intense. Like you're almost like podcasts. Like there's no phones, there's no distraction. Like it is the deepest work, deepest presence that I've like really done. And there's a sense of flow with that. But the flow, there's also like a I have to be so I don't have to be I choose to be really. And particularly with the words I use. And the words that I choose to reiterate back to you that you've shared with me to bring out something else. So there's like this deep presence and that's like takes a lot of energy from there. It's like you're not just running on a lot of high. You're holding space for someone. Yeah. You know that sharing the deepest things. Yeah. And then you're in the mind and one side I'm like thinking about a plan. I'm thinking about like tools to help to share. Questions to ask to you know there's like a lot of moving parts. So I just say like the demand on these quite high right now. And moving from Bali to to buy own seven month old. You know we've got projects in Indonesia that require attention. This is a lot. So what would be something great protocol for yourself? Sorry. What's some protocol that you follow yourself to manage that demand? Pretty much exactly what I just shared with everyone. Like my phone is off from eight o'clock at night. I'm not on my phone first thing in the morning. I'm down I'm training at the gym. But I'm not outside of like needing to do it to feel good or like just beyond for work. It's like it's it's a more of a routine based thing for me. Then I'm first swim with my with my family in the morning. Get some sun. Have a nice meal with some nice music at home like it's slow. A bit of stretching and then that's like I just bought a still mace. You want to still maces. So it's like this big pole with like a little ball on the top of four kilos. And I sent out in the sun in my talks and I just I wave it around. It's great for shoulder health. I do it for my wrist strength as well for my forearms. I do it where I like I bend over and I'm kind of put inside the side and it's activating my core. So I've got this like routine with a still mace now that kind of just wakes up my whole system. Then I have a shower and then like yeah I'm I spend some time with Harvey. I've been doing tummy time at the moment where his amines getting learned to crawl. So like that's you know it's a fancy question mate like one of my buddies Simon. He'll ask me a sound the phone he said what do you think the biggest wellness trend in 2026 is going to be? I was like that's a good question. And when I really thought about it I said I don't really have any data to support this but I said you know I think it's simplicity. I think it's simplicity in routines. I said I think people are getting over consumed with red light panels, MF suits, grounding mats, infrareds, finish sauna. This type of ice bar. Like coming back to like just the foundations. Yeah. Like Sun, like why are we even talking about that if you're not sleeping well. If you're not sleeping seven eight hours well if you're not having nutritious meals three times a day. Like if if you're not getting sunlight morning and evening if you're if you're not able to spend an hour without your phone mornings like why we even have a conversation about this tech. You know what's the point of it because they have the biggest movement needle movers for cardiovascular health you know and so I just like simplicity man. And I think you asked me the last podcast I know I'm on a login a bit here but that's great this is good. You asked me the last podcast like what's your favorite product I said walking in the beach with my partner. It's still true this day brother. I would agree with you. It's still true to this day. I can't fucking wait to get down to the beach with my fiance and my son and go for fucking swim. It's the best. It's the best man in the sun. I'm like if I could do that every single day that would be the one thing. Yeah. Because I just feel like amazing. And I've got a video for you. We literally did that this morning. I do that every day and everyone can't do that so I get it but you can do a version of it for you. And it comes back I think to setting boundaries around your time in your calendar and inserting things first before the demand state plays. I had just another one thing that's been massive. Sorry interrupt you. No please. It's been my phone health. It's been my phone health so I look at phone health is like what's my relationship to my phone. And it's something I've implemented with clients now as well. Like one of the first things we do is like we audit their phone health. And what's the routine with phone when you get home? What's the routine with phone? It's probably we're having a conversation about routine with phones but that's like what we need to do. You have that conversation. What are you doing with your phone the more? Where is it next to your bed? Is it with an arm's reach? Or is it across the room? Is it a tech bed? Do you sit in there on your phone before bed? Is your couch now the tech area? Like where do you sit on your phone the whole time? Where is it when you get in from the door? Where do you place it? Is it in the drawer or in the study or in your bedroom? So I get really particular about these things because like that I believe is the biggest distraction right now. And if you didn't and what it's the next question is I put up on my phone. What am I doing? What could you be doing? And like one of the guys asked me they go, so what should I do now? I said I'm not telling you what to do. I said I want to see what you feel like is the best decision for you. For example for me this before bed is a great solution. Like alternative. Like what do I want to achieve? How was my day? Little notes that can keep me present with my journey. I found a lot of value in it. That's awesome man. And I got some players make that they're doing breath work. They're meditating. They're doing, they've got prayer. They've got all these scenes. And that's amazing. And for a big part of my journey I did that as well. Because that was the most important thing to me at the time was being able to express freely who I was. My authentic self, after being in real estate where I felt like I was needed to be like this. It wasn't forced to be like that. I felt I needed to be like this. So I think it's a perfect reminder definitely to there's many different ways. It's a thing. You work with some of the best operators in Australia, in business and in the real estate space. What are you learning from these guys? And what are you teaching them? I think coaching. What I'm learning is like the power of intentionality and commitment is just like so important. And action obviously. So like knowing where they're going and being intentional about every little thing. So that that becomes inevitable. We can't lose if you do these things. And just it's time and time again like you make time for that. You reflect on that. You reflect on the questions that we've spoken about. You get clear on this idea of what game we're playing. And then your reverse engineering become intentional about all the things that are going to get you there. And the common objection to that is like, I don't want to feel like a robot and like I've got to do all these things. I'm like, well, don't because you obviously don't have the same goal. Like if you want to shovel a shit. And that's your goal. What do you need? Well, I'm going to need a good shovel. I'm going to need a good hose. Okay. I don't know. You break it down. But then you do those things to get good at it. So I think the intentionality and thinking about where they're going, what they want to achieve is like just so important. And they don't rely on how they feel. Don't rely on how they feel. In the sense of like it's it's a really tight rope. And I saw I was getting it before because like, of course, you got to check in with what you need and how you're feeling like if you're feeling sick, of course. It's like not a good day or a bad day. It's just kind of like we just do the work. The work. You know, and if that's at 80% capacity, then it's at 80% capacity, but you do the work. It's not like it's not a, the point to action. The time from like thought to action is drastically shorter with these people. So in the morning at 5am when it's cold and it's hard and you think about, do I want to go to the gym. It's like not even a thought, do I want to go to the gym. So this is just what we do. And they're scheduled and intentional enough that they don't get to the point of like, I've over trained because we don't over train because we've scheduled that in. We thought about that already. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, it does. It's like. You're trying to assimilate that into a more simple version. I don't think I need to think you said it quite well. What, what are you, what value has someone like a Will Phillips, for example, what, what maybe are their blind spots that you've helped them unravel or progress with. I'll share what he told me. So, I coach four of his team members. Will said to me, you know, this is really nice actually. I actually really loved hearing this because I don't get much reassurance in my industry. And I actually do really well in reassurance. He said to me, Link, you've actually been so valuable to me because I don't have anyone else to speak to about these things about what, you know, the, what the is his team are going through to a certain degree, like I don't tell them everything. And provide him a perspective that is unique. Because I coach people from inside real estate, outside of real estate, from not as a real estate coach, but from a nervous system perspective, from, you know, from a martial arts perspective, from all these different sort of fields. And he said, Link, like it's really valuable to have a different perspective. I think I'm not going to get into like what are the blind spots that he has because I don't feel like that's important for me to share everyone. But I will say that what I've noticed is that no one's perfect. I'm not perfect. And yeah, that's like pretty, pretty simple man. Like I don't really feel like getting into what he's blind spots. Well, I guess the reason I asked was I'm just curious is like it's inspiring that even people that are the top are still seeking ways to evolve and improve. And it's just I'm curious to like where what are things that they're doing differently that if I did could. Well, I think it's one thing that will is he's shared with me is like the leadership part of it. How can people be more open to asking him questions and how can he protect his time and be more intentional with his staff so that they feel like they can communicate with him and ask questions whenever. But it doesn't impact his time. Because that's a common thing that I see with not just will be like many directors or lead agencies like they want to have a door and he doesn't have an open door policy but like. A lot of people have an open door policy and then feel kind of like overwhelmed by how much time is being sucked from them and then to navigate that conversation and to have a boundary around that to make that clear with all the agents in the office and still feel like they're able to give enough back training wise so that they're also developing. And that's hard to do. But it's possible. It's definitely possible. I think that's where the communication piece is so important of how they communicate what their needs are. Hey, I need, you know, I'm struggling with X. I feel this when is when you're available to support me with this as opposed to just being like, hey, fucking 37 Smith Street like by then someone's going to call up. Yeah, just distracts everyone. Yeah, so I'd like, you know, I think an urgency procedure with an e-mails is great as well. So an email policy with the urgency level really helps. What is what else does Mocker stand for what what are the right if someone wants to come to Lincoln and mock up as a client. What can they expect in terms of the process or framework. Let's see someone's coming to Mockers. They've identified a pain point they want to improve. Can you share the mock journey experience? What's that look like? Yeah, so essentially as I said before, start with the viral reset, which is your energy operating system. So sleep, nutrition, daily energy, home life. In the morning to evening rhythm. We built out what I call as a personal renewal plan. So we look for the next 12 months ahead when I identify where all the periods are having a break. And I have like a structure for that. So around school holidays and every six weeks one day off. So I have all these little kind of references or pillars that you need to hit. And then we work out the total days that you're going to be working for the next 12 months. And then when you we go into I've got a performance calculator that I have that they can punch in all their numbers and it spits out, you know, basically how many calls you need to make. We get really granular with with the details based on how many hours, I sorry, how many days you're going to be prepared to prospect work. And I do that because I think a lot of people start with their goal first in their numbers and then try and fit in their life around it. And it doesn't work that well. So if we actually work out like what life are they wanting to build, now it's time to take them and then work out how are they going to build that around that. Then we can start to get a little bit more detail with the months that you're going to be having when you're going to be more busy, when you take time off and just accounting for all these sort of periods. So we get we get that sorted and then we move into your internal state. So yourself believe your self talk, your mental clarity and your vision, your style, your core values, so your reference points for how you make decisions. And that's called your internal operating system. And then we moved through to the excellence operating system. How well will we delegating what's our calendar management, how is an email management, what's our phone health like. And yeah, we just keep working through the business as well as you. So the bottlenecks of the business. I'm not really a scripts and dialogues type of guy, I leave that for a real estate coach. And then we effectively delegate and prioritize and understand what is the most high leverage move for you. And why that may not be happening. We start to attack that. And that's sort of like the three pillars. So your energy, your health, the vital reset, your internal operating system. So like, for example, you might get a new phone case, right, which looks good. But if your iPhone is still operating on the old update and you haven't updated, there's still going to be some lag. So we sort of basically upgrade the iPhone upgrade your internal operating system to match it. And then we get to the operational side. What's the, what's something that helps upgrade an operation system? How do I increase capacity? Well, I think by virtue of getting clear on your health and your energy, it makes everything else easier. So it's kind of like the domino effect, right? Like, do you know what the domino effect is? Yeah, but something that's half its size can knock over that and it keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. So if we can knock over, say, for example, your phone health at home, sleeps now better. Yeah, sleeps better now morning routines, but morning routines better like to make better decisions with food, the energy more productive. So it's start you build capacity. Yeah, it's a small things that then lead to slightly bigger, bigger, bigger, correct. And so by the time we get to your operational, like your organization and prioritization, it's not overwhelming to you when we're trying to fit more into the calendar, like you, we've already blocked out everything that we need that's really important to your health for the next year. And we know what how many prospecting days you have in the year and when they're likely to most busy throughout the year. So it's kind of all organized. Really does. And like how I like to think about it is like when I was getting into swimming back in Finland, I worked out very quickly that the only way to get faster or to get to my goal quicker was to increase my power and to reduce my drag through the water. So how much force can I generate and how aerodynamic can it be to the water? It's the same thing with real estate and agents. So if you want to go faster, we can increase your power so we can output how many calls you're doing and we can reduce the drag, get rid of all the distractions and leakage. It's a really good analogy. So health is sort of the first component of that energy is the first component of that. How we're thinking about these things are all is the first component. But it seems like a lot the program that I do and it is, but it's also a protocol based. So you could come to me or bottom like problem specific bottom specific. So you could come to me and say like I'm dealing with like I've got a management issue. And we get into the details and you're like being reactive with them and we usually find the reactive is a is a is a deeper issue of how you think about yourself. The triggers that you're getting and also that you're not sleeping so well at home. So rather than trying to attack the management problem right now, we get into the best possible space for you to be able to handle that issue. And then we can work through the issue because if their capacities are all like at zero, how are they going to handle a really hard conversation that's emotionally taxing. So it sounds like almost as best you can you're going to the root. Like 100% of the time. Yeah. That's a symptom that's a symptom of. Of course, but this is the kind of the problem that I have with coaches in the industry. It's like you want to make more money. So the answer is to make more calls and get more organized at work, but you're fundamentally not in a good shape. Like your health is you're like you're you're fucking taxed and you've got another kid on the way. And you've got you know, you're doing more deals and you did the year before. You're going to do more calls. That's not the answer. Well, this is actually I'm really curious your answer on this. We've talked a lot about ways we can improve life or get more intentional is getting clear with our goals and the actions are quiet to get there and improving our nervous system and our base and capacity. What do you think is the highest, like that's one way of living and operating. What's the highest purpose of life or what's the highest perspective we can be on with life? I couldn't answer that and I'm probably not even going to try it because it's my answer is going to be different. I think like I'm still figuring that out. Yeah. I'm still trying to determine like what actually is is the thing we should focus on. What I would say is that like as I've as I've taken action to make my life. As I've looked to move with more ease through life. My life's gotten more enjoyable. And that ease hasn't necessarily come from doing just easy things. As I've put my energy into things that are tough and hard. I've tend to find that like everything becomes easier. I have more ease with life like more things come to me. Like low calls me a manifestation king all the time. Not because I'm just like sitting there manifesting but because I try my very best. I almost get emotional saying it. Yeah because I'm trying my best to make decisions that are going to make my life more enjoyable. Because of that psychedelic experiment that life was pretty hard. It was tough. It was the bottom. I was at a real dark place. So I do my best to make decisions that are going to be supported for myself and for my family. I don't get emotional about it. It's the truth. That's what I care for. Not to try and make everything perfect but just like how can we be solid? What type of an impact is it had on you the more you've been solid and worked your age? More opportunity. More connection. Like look at this man sitting like come on what? We just we bought a place in Biring like how the fuck did that happen? Have a beautiful son. You know like a healthy son. So blessed man. Life is abundant in my life. Congrats bro. Yeah and like sometimes I'm like I don't want to say that loud but I'm like I'm fucking happy about that. Fucking work for it. Like my partner and she's an absolute weapon. She's an absolute weapon and like works so hard for nine years. Built incredible business. Still has an incredible business with incredible people around her. She's literally she's she's she's not she's delivered on watching her vision board was. You know and I'm like she's my partner. I got that that's amazing I can't believe that. But you you know Tom great videographer like I don't know man things just seem to be flowing. I don't know what else to say. Like I really don't man like so like and that's probably why I have conviction with with people like come across as intense in these moments because I'm like. I just fucking know when you put yourself first because why I put myself first and you make a line decisions. And I make a line decisions I get rewarded. I don't know man. And I like you know even this idea of having podcasts is interesting because it almost is like oh I haven't the self proclaimed guy that has the answers when I get on my. I'm still figuring this out just like fucking you are made just like every person that's listening. I'm just figuring it out just having to go having to crack man. I don't know and the people that I work with feel so aligned to me. I fucking love my clients man. I could really do I love this business. And I love being able to change the culture or doing my bit I just love it. I love it dude. Like I got a message from one of my clients this morning he was making a healthy protein banana bread yesterday. And this was a guy that was having coke every single day emotionally eating like and he's we've been on the path for 12 and a half months maybe a bit longer nearly close to 18. And he's come from here man he bought two properties this year did more GCR than the year before he's been on more dates than he ever has. He's lost weight like man he's fucking killing it. And he's sending me photos of his screenshots of his whoop doing zone two cardio 15 minutes he's doing a high intensity circuit and he's killing it. I don't like bro like that's sick. I fucking love that. I don't know and it's like it just keeps happening. What's been the biggest lesson? I know you don't like that particular type of question but what needed to change with the link after that so I can get like experience to get real with myself man. I just had to get real and soften and soften myself like I'm fucking human you know like I'm human things can happen this is life you know got a surrender to it. And keep working I mean that was the biggest lesson is make better decisions or make the best possible decision that I can. I think one of my buddies told me as he said you've got your consciousness and the quality of its contents. Quality of its content yeah so what and I remember he said that to me I was overlooking the Sydney Harbor Bridge in point piper I think. And we're at the beach there and like I was going to hard time and I was questioning real estate and he said mate like I can't remember what it was but he was like you've got your consciousness and the quality of its contents and they're so important. So do you know what I mean by that you've got your consciousness and what you take in. And that was such a big lesson to me because I started looking at like well how am I speaking to myself what am I reading what am I watching and I remember this specifically because my room at the time was fucking stuck on YouTube every night and I was in there reading the autobiography of a yogi. And I was reading Zen mind beginners mind and I was meditating next to my little fucking tree that I bought in my room in Rose Bay you know. And come full circle I love YouTube but I spent a lot of time on YouTube but that was the lesson it was like this kind of like I can change this if I want. And yeah actually saying it out loud that's it like I can change I can be I choose it's a choice. It sounds obviously like so simple but like that was the profoundness of like all of it was like I can choose how I want to be. That's awesome man. Can you grant. I mean I'm sure many other people have come to their own conclusions and same conclusions man you know. And to wrap things up bro for the people that are listening that maybe are going through a pain point that nervous systems out of whack they're overstimulated. What you're not changing your choosing. Oh oh. This was a fucking great podcast. Thanks for having me man I really appreciate it. I appreciate you getting real and raw and sharing and I know that they were parts of. It's one of my favorite parts about doing this is holding space to people to get that out. And because there's so many people that will listen that will be able to resonate and connect with that and hopefully inspire. Thank you for being vulnerable enough to share your truth and your journey and hopefully this is well received if it's not that's also okay too. For anyone that wants to learn more or connect how do they send me a DM on Instagram. Yeah I just wanted to say one thing though because when I say my partner is a weapon. Sounds pretty intense as I said. She's beautiful. She's such a beautiful soul and I'm so grateful to you. If you listen to this and yeah the the people that I choose to have in my inner circle. So important and I think that's like. Just so critical because it's your energy it's your time to people you know. So thanks man I appreciate you. I actually really appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah dude you're actually a really good human. Really? Yeah I was saying this the will the other day I said man today it was a very good human. I've got a lot of time for you. I appreciate you. I'm like I. And I love what you're building it's so inspiring. It really is. From like the way you ask questions I know if you wanted to finish the podcast. This is good. The way that you ask questions the way that you care and the way that you're real I've really trust you. Thank you bro. And that's a really important trait for me is to trust people. So I wanted to say that to you man. Thanks man. Religion. Appreciate that bro. It's nice like you said when you got that message. Yeah. It's nice to get something you receive because you don't get that often right. Yeah. Appreciate it bro. Yeah. You're awesome. Keep it up. Thanks guys. and into another Bow Side Podcast. I just want to say a big thank you for the support up until now. If you've got value from the episode, could you please go like and follow us on the social platforms, for example, Spotify and YouTube, as that will help us continue to get better quality guests. Bye for now. (upbeat music)