EP 142 | How I Built A 200-Person Company With ZERO Systems - Graeme Holm

I wanted to make money, like most young people, but I didn't want to go through the full effort. There was no impact, there was no legacy, there was no plan, there was no wire. That's what I want to make money. But make money, all my problems go away. No, just make your fucking problems bigger. You got more to lose, you got more to fight over. Fuck, I want to give myself a massive up to cut and wish that I was making the impact now with the values, morals and ethics I have now back at money fire. Graham Homb, part three, where he destroys business myths. Reveals the brutal truth about success and why he refuses to sell his empire. I could have sold this business a hundred times over. It is so powerful and I refuse to have any check for any amount of money because it will change the community and the beam counters would run out. And right now it's run by humans that deeply care and you can't compete with that. So I spent 12 years of my life like no one is prepared to and now I can actually spend the rest of my life however the fuck I want to. I did a free webinar with three people on it. My last life I did I had 5,800 and something like that. You shared that you don't really run into systems where a lot of business coaches and gurus always say you fall to the level of your systems. You run a super successful business in several different parts. How do you run that so well when you run systems? So. All right, G back for the third episode today. Now you just shared something off camera which was really interesting. How do you run that so well when you don't run systems? So usually I wake up in the 4am club. I stick my face in a bowl of cold water for fuck and hell really seriously. Look I know a lot of people subscribe to that shit. I'm manic. So yeah I very honest about what I do. I back is laser focused. World's down to 15 minute increments very good at what she does. I'm manic. I'm all over the place. So I have a diary, I have my EA, I have a PA from a personal world as well. I don't do anything that doesn't serve me. So I'm not going to wash clothes, cook, clean. It's in the morning, it typically get up, have PT and then usually dressed. Breakfast is at the moment. I just get downstairs to the cafe, have two poached eggs and some sourdough. And I'm called from minute I'm up. I'm talking to people at 5.36 o'clock in the morning because we're all busy. So I try to get as many calls out of the way as I can in the morning when I wake up before PT. But I'm up and I'm straight into it. I'm not meditating, I'm not reading, I'm not worried about me time. I'm on. And that's the only way I can function. Then PT, as soon as PT finishes, calls on the way, calls, calls, calls, emails, etc. I'm always doing calls, whilst I'm doing emails, I'm all over the place. So I'm probably the least structured human being, you know. Is that because you're just worried about putting up that much output? Let's just have fucked up I am. Like literally like the medication wouldn't work. So it's just, I'm just really many. I'm really all over the place. If I have one thing to do, it'll sit in a tray, I'll sit on my desk for fucking ages. But if you give me a week's worth of work, I'll allocate half a day and I'll turn through it unlike anyone else on the planet. And that's just my thing. A bit of a night out too. I struggle with mornings. Like when the phone stops ringing in the email and all that sort of stuff, that's when my brain's like, okay, cool. And I get a bit more creative and tend to think of stuff. But like you, I've had to work on that again, not fuck in bed by X and up at X. But I don't bar, get up, go to the gym, that's it. And that's because I'm trying to lose weight again. So I'm 10 kilos now. I've got to keep that routine. And then the only thing I do now really outside of just my day always spirals. You got 180 nine staff, nearly 200 at the moment. Another country launching going global. My day's wild. But I'm not, I'm not in the bit so that there's owners and operators. I'm between owner and operator. So I'm working on a whole heap of things like global and this and that. I'm not in the day today. Our COO runs the business for us, our chief of steel. Like we've got amazingly competent people like our head of the finance, Zaki, he won broker of the year at the FB double A last year. Like our heads off have been with us for eight, nine years. Like we've got a lot of long 10 year staff, which is rare in a lot of industries these days. But yeah, I'm in bar getting up, go to the gym. I just get through it. And if I don't like something, sometimes I'll eat the frog. Sometimes I'll procrastinate. But I do heaps of creative time, hence the digital whiteboards and stuff. So like Beck Lane, now spend a lot of time on that. And we'll do whole days or two day sessions on that. Just you back in Lane, in a room. Just three of us in a room. Sometimes the system will be in here with us. Just recording it all. And we'll just do one or two days on creative. And that's like a creative. Yeah, so creative of, okay, how can we improve gifts for clients? How can our Christmas party be bigger? We've got a lot of fun. And we've got a lot of fun. Not client facing myself so to speak. So I'm still doing a big chunk of the education. But I've got a lot of other people doing it. So success leaves clues. I've got broker of the year, a couple of years. Zach, he's now one at. He's now the head off. Rachel's one at. She's now a head off. So like when I do my master class now, I do some of it. Rachel does nearly all of it. Yeah, well. And that's the whole thing. Sometimes it's hard for business owners to let go. The longer you hold on in business, the more key man or key woman. Rescue develop. Like Tony Robbins, can't sell Tony Robbins. It's him. They've done things with Dean and that over the years. But he can't sell Tony. It's Tony. That makes sense. So. Yeah, we've done a fair bit. I've got a big, big treasure chest of people that can be me. That are more than skilled and more than equipped. We've tested that. Rachel, does it now? The last three master classes have been Rachel. At what point do you make that decision to pivot from? Having you as the sole guy to then bringing in other people to replace? When you're ready, I think I probably hung on longer than I should have. And longer than I need to. But I also acknowledge that it takes a thick skin to do what we're doing at the scale we do and to back yourself. To go, okay, you've got a problem with your loan. I'll just undo it and put you back here and pay the fee, whatever. Like, I don't know any other businesses in Australia that do that. I don't know many businesses that genuinely honor a money back guarantee. So I think for me, I still really enjoy it. But when we start a family next year, hopefully, that'll change. Because we'll look to start a family late next year. We're in talking about it for a while. Back was the one that helped me make the decision. It goes, if you don't try America to help families there, you'll die wondering and you'll fucking hate yourselves. I'm like, yeah, we'll. So back to you one, eh? Yeah. Well, shit, the black rock thing come out in the 40-year mortgage and the 50-year mortgage and all that. And then they're talking to Trump and say, oh, we've got to help rates go down and do the amount. Yeah, the timing's kind of right. Like, these people are getting fucked as bad as we are. Fuck, help them. Different market. But that's what works. They actually have the products over there. They just forgot they exist. How much? How much involvement does Laney have in these decisions? Yeah, so we'll spend quite a bit of time, do you? So typically once a month, back Laney and I will get together as an owner, like owners consortium. And we'll just sit here and we'll just do our own little off-site or onsite. Sometimes we'll go away and go, we're going to go to buy or and or wherever. And we'll just do two, three days. And all we'll do is just pull stuff apart. So he's not in every day? No, no, he's got his own on the business interest. But yeah, once a month when, and a lot like he speaks at our events, he's involved in it. For day to day stuff. No, he's a business owner, not operator. What's his skillset versus yours? Who's Laney? Scale. Really? Scale. I would have never thought of being this big. I wanted to impact a lot of people. But he talks, I think, I think with a million dollar lens, because it's the biggest number you can think of. He thinks with a billion dollar lens. So scale is one of his biggest skill sets. How important, you know, I guess finding the right business partner and trying to find, you know, because skillsets have to complement each other right. Business, you're young and young. How do you, how does something like, I guess, you know, me, my own business at the moment, where I'm really much, I'm very much at that point where I have to replace myself tenfold. Yeah. Find that really hard. I don't find letting go hard. Yeah. At all. More than having to let go. But like, how do you find someone that can either replace you as a CEO, and then if I wanted to scale and grow and go national, or whatever, partnerships that are smarter move, because I love to diversify that load. How would I go about looking for someone in business, you have a lot of people to approach you? You'd probably say no to more than you say yes to, because you're trying to protect what you've built. But I guess people in business, how do they find these right partners? If they're looking for scalability or growth, or they're looking for that partner that brings that skill set. Like, how can business owners find these people? It's a tricky one. We've had two or three CEOs now over these besides me. Have they ever stepped back? We're off step back. One of them for a year, maybe a year and a half, a year to years, a year and a half. One of them for a year, it's never worked. What, can you break that apart? So, we're just never worked. No one will ever treat your private organisation. Remember, we're private. So, there's myself back in Michael. No one will ever treat your business as if it's their own truly perfectly. And humans always want more. So, and it's very hard to, I think, for various different CEOs and C-suite people. When you have service and sales oriented business, a lot of salespeople and service can earn a lot of money. When you've got managers earning less than salespeople, that can create a lot of click. A lot of conflict because it's disproportionate. And whereas as an owner, it's different if my business succeeds, I might receive a dividend. So, I think it can be very tricky. Also, where a bit unique, we have so vertically integrated across so many pillars that we've got insurance brokerage launching in the new year. So, we'll have insurance services because we refer it out to six or seven trusted insurance brokers. We've done that for years. Yet to put me up thousands of customers and you're entrusting their services and needs with six other businesses. Someone can be on leave, something can go wrong. If somebody goes wrong in my business, I just fix it. Just cut the chair for you, you know, apologise. Because people get understanding business, ship will go wrong, and it's how you deal with it. And, end, is it factually wrong? Or does someone believe it's wrong because they don't have the intelligence to understand it? It's usually that humans don't have the intelligence to understand something they've done. Therefore, it's wrong, bad, or they don't understand it. So, but it's just, I think it's really important, certain things you should never do. So, we'll always outsource accounting. We always outsource legal. I've seen some different brokerages and agents and stuff start convincing legals. I just feel that's a bit of a conflict. I think like the legal side of something you're doing has to be completely arms length. And I think the accounting and financial planning, we've done financial planning before. We stopped, we now outsource it all to various AFSL's. I think that for us, you know, when you look at, because we're a holistic firm, right? We want to fix everything. We do asset finance on your cars. We do your home and personal finance. We do invest real estate investments, but that's where we stop and coaching. We don't do financial planning accounting or legal work. That means you've got a lawyer, accountant, and financial planner checking on our work. And it means we also are checking on their work. So, I think you can't be everything to everyone. But the business partner thing, I mean, I think people need to be really, really careful. And I want to put words in this, but Michael is quite savvy at this where I think he said something to the effect years ago on something we did where he'd rather have a smaller piece of a lot of successful businesses. Because it's something to the effect that all these other partners are just as invested and concerned as him every day. So, if I need to do something to get ring right now, 90% chance he'll answer even though he's business. And him and Beck and I will get on a call, we'll work. How do we do this? How do we do that? Happy days. But that's really rare in your neck. I mean, we've been in partnership now five, going on six years. And men has it been fun. But men, there's some horror stories. You know, we're a bricks and mortar business doing live events and COVID hit four months into doing that, talking on stages all over the world, and then the world shut down. And I couldn't turn a phone on and off. Wow. It was like, fuck, what do we do? Did you say you were going to replace yourself again with the CEO? Again, I'm another cracker that. I don't know at this stage because I'm more externalised now. Like, I don't write loans anymore. I'm the licensee, but I don't write loans anymore. I'll probably step back from the licensee. You roll shortly. Hand that to one of my seniors. You guys, it's been here for a decade or so. And I'm sort of really transitioning out. I loved doing the education, but it's not best use of my time to ever talk to one human being. And I actually identified that years ago, we talked in the other episode about you running a monthly market update, and like interview and data for your community. That's the best way for you to canvas your entire suburb for the cost of a Zoom. I don't know why no one's doing that. I see every now and then, our economist from brand XYZ is going to do this thing nationally. I don't know why no one's picked up now, probably 20 agents will do it, but as if you shouldn't be actually actively talking to everyone in your market with your personality, with your skillset, with your expertise once a month. What the fuck would I ring one person? That's what people are so, I don't have competitors. People are responding to a lead. Leads are at pet stores. Go to fucking pet bar. If I educate you, you're a client, you're not a lead. I don't do leads. That's something Michael's been able to teach me along the way. You've got an amazing skillset. You care really deeply. You've got an amazing outcome that's proven for thousands of people. You just need to show that at scale. Why would you ever tell one person that? That's not best use of your knowledge, your skillset. It would be like, it would have been a knock. You wouldn't have to save it any honest. I could eradicate the flu if I had 20 minutes with you. You would go out and tell the whole world how to eradicate the flu in 20 minutes. Same for any service-based industry. You've got everything down part. You're starting to scale. Whether it be in a service-based industry, you're an agent, you're a broker, you're building your own team within that business. Where did people go wrong when they're scaling any sort of business-based business? There's lots of areas you can go wrong. I'm partnering with the wrong people. There's a big one. It's a issue. You partner with the wrong person. You can ruin your life. But again, you've got to own every step of the way, relationships, friendships, business partnerships. I've had many people come and go in the business over the years. Some of them just weren't the right fit. Whether it was personal, whether it was financial, whatever it may be. It's amazing. People still, but just not the right fit. But you've got to own that anything going wrong is a reflection of you. Because if you're attracted to a business partner for whatever skillset you think they have, and it goes wrong, half of that's your fault. That's really hard to send you Harbour Bridge. That's really hard to swallow. No, they're just a fucking bitch. They're an asshole. Well, they've got their things. You've got your things. You partner with them because you believe you lack something. You believe they have the skill you lack. But then you couldn't combine and lean on each other. So you both fucked up. So it's really hard. I think people try to scale. Sometimes they just think eyeballs. Sometimes they just think throw money at marketing or Google ads or social media ads. Do more, whatever it may be. Do you do have to have a bit of a structured business plan to it? Like watch your ROI, watch your CAC, watch your LTV. If anyone doesn't know these sorts of things, you need to know what you're investing in social media ads per week. And then you need to know what is your cost of client acquisition to get them to your service or to your event just to listen to you. You know, is it $20 a click? But is $20 a click? $2,000 a sale before they list their home with you or you fix their fucking toilet or something like that. So people really need to get deep into that stuff. And before they scale, I don't think enough, I know, enough, I see them all. I see their financials. A lot of really good strong business owners don't know how to run a business. They want to say good strong. They could be a fucking exceptional plumber. But they've got a div 7a loan. They've got personal cars, funded through the business that aren't deductible. But they think they are. The wife drive an arrange driver for your plumbing business. That's not fucking deductible. So there's a lot of amazing business owners that are not good business operators. One of the key things I'm seeing cropping up a lot which I hate is in the coaching space is these business coaches. They usually burnt out failed employees and they haven't usually built, exited or continued a successful business. Now my default reaction to that and I've seen some amazing results for this. There are good business coaches out there. But few and far between that can say I exited for this or did that. My default is always this. If you're a plumbing business right now and you're about to get a business coach because you want to scale. Well firstly, all your taxes up to date, all your staff's super paid. Have you got enough OPEX operational expenses? So this is another thing. I asked my clients, what's your OPEX? I was like, what's that? I'm like, okay, how much does it cost to turn the lights on? Pay you to do everything for a month. Everything like Carla, 10 grand. Okay. So do you keep 30 or 60 grand in the bank? What do you mean? Well, if you're a business owner or a proper business owner, you would at least have three, six, 12 months of OPEX in your account. Not good to have dead cash. But if you don't have your OPEX sitting there in case shit happens or you don't get paid. You're not running a business properly. I know some really well-known business owners out there that don't pay their bills on time because they don't know how to manage cash flow. Well, their mum and dad pay their fucking bills for them. Like, so there's some great business owners out there and they tend to look to these business coaches or gurus and they tell them to rebrand. And they tell them to do this marketing and it's like, look at what that person's built. What are they actually built besides selling the thought processes? So what I suggested a lot of business owners is if you went and hired an amazing general manager who was incentivized to increase your revenue or profitability, that would be better than a business coach because they got to get in the game. If you hadn't hired a great ops manager, sales manager, general manager, and they had the skill set and you pulled them from somewhere to go, okay, let's say for example, I want my real estate officers to be double the size. Well, you would go poach someone operationally and sales wise that's led a larger franchise network. Yeah. That's very easy to find. It's just how you remunerate them. And they've probably done that and gone there, built it and got a percentage of that. Cool, come to me. Here's what I'll give you. Here's your salary, but for every x percent of revenue, increase or profit increase in scale and you offer sure I'll give you x. Watch that person absolutely change the landscape of your business and give you scale. Because the one they've done it successfully before they have a track record, not a failed record to they're not just telling you some shit as a business coach. They're actually showing you how to do what they just did at another organization. That's where you see good CEO is moved from one firm to another firm because they understand what it takes in business, not real estate versus finance versus electrical works. So I tell people to be very careful of that and look for the key hires that have skin in the game share the wealth. Like most of the better to earn 50% of a million dollars than 100% of a hundred thousand dollars. A big shout out to our main podcast sponsor that's made this podcast possible view.com.au for anyone over the Christmas period that wants to get a better understanding of what their properties were. Maybe you want to look about upsizing or downsizing your family home or even search for your next investment. Definitely look at view.com.au. Thank you for supporting us with this episode. Do you know what's interesting here and you say that on reflection, one of my best business coaches has been partnering with Josh. One of my best business coaches is my business partner. It's made my accountability way more higher. I'm now playing a standard that he operates it and if I'm not that operation system, he doesn't want to who I would want to be a business partner with me. So I've got access to his phone, not 24 seven, but pretty much. I've got access to that. Like I reckon if you're young, I've been in business by myself and I've been in business partnerships being in business partnerships with whilst you're young, although it may not be as profitable in the short term, it's just you condense so much. The load gratification. You just named it. You can dance. You can dance years of lessons mistakes. Yeah, you can look at your parents go, don't touch it. Ow, don't touch it. It's hot. We don't listen to our fucking parents. You guys start a bit same thing there. You're like, I want to scale. We'll go to somebody who's fucking learn all of the mistakes, lessons that you can avoid. Good mentor said to me, he goes, who is smarter? You are the donkey. Who is smarter? Meal the donkey. Of course some fucking smarter than the donkey. You guys really? Of course some smarter than the donkey. You'd say that too, right? Yeah, yeah. Because when you walk the donkey around the village and it sees the hole and it falls in the hole, guess what it does next time it walks around the village? It knows the hole's there and it walks around the hole. So why are you doing the same fucking mistake again? Yeah. So it's like anything I'm smarter than the donkey, but you can you can take 10, 20, 30 years of life lessons and mistakes and pain and pumps and bruises and tribulations and triumphs and condense that with somebody who's been there. And fuck, don't do that. Now that doesn't work. Oh, that model work 10 years ago. Like you can condense that knowledge like I've done with other people. I'm just listening now. I'm not that smart, but I listen to people who are and there's listening. There's a absorb. There's listening and hearing. There are two different things and absorption. And then there's this key thing that most people lack the ability to do execute. That's the last bit. Execute execute execute. And so in fairness to the business coaches out there, you can be really successful and inspiration. If the person you coach that paid you lacks the ability drive or balls to execute your most will not take their money because nothing you do for them will help. And that's where the coaching industry falls. I can teach a client exactly how to pay their loan off really quick, but if they don't execute a laughable time, I'll go, okay, we'll get mum and daddy and they're like, we don't share finance to get to share bed. Yeah, yeah, common. It's that common. So common. It's the share bed. Yeah, yeah, go share bodily fluids occasionally. Look at each other. You got two kids at least twice. They're like, oh, look. Guys, you share a bed. You share bodily fluids. You've got two kids and you have separate bank accounts. And I heard about, oh, what is on the buyer at present? I'm like, fucking grow up. She ain't checking the internet banking every 16 seconds, but wow. Did I know anything like like testing like, I've been more worried about my physical health than I would about my financial health. Like it's really weird. Money's a taboo thing and then I get rooms of 800 people together. And they're talking about their budgets and how they struggle with this and struggle with it. And yet you're in a normal setting at a barbecue. You could never ask so say, if you've got a budget, dad, you'd be like, fuck off, idiot. What are you spending a week on coffee? You're like, fuck off. You know, can't watch your car worth. You've been like, no, no business. It's not like it's really weird. Where does that all come from? Do you think I'd have the option of like me telling somebody that I budget X is not going to affect me in any way. They can't control my budget. It's mine. Yeah. Me telling someone, I'm struggling for a man, I'm struggling for an inch at the moment. I think I'm going to have to sell my car. How do you how do you perform your car? But then also if you did ask you getting barbecue, mafia advice, your circumstances and nothing like that person. It's true. Your drive is nothing like that person. But yeah, the separate bank things weird. Yeah, it's weird. How do you decide if you're starting a new business, if you partner or if you just go at yourself, if you're very confident in it? It's a good question. I mean, but back in I bootstrapped so it was just back in I nothing. And I did the calls and I did the knock on the door and I did the meetings and and mine and backs intellectual property and time and brain is what built the business. And now we just got the most amazing competent people, which it wasn't always that way. It's a really tough decision. It depends on what scale you want. And how much pain are you prepared to absorb as a human being without breaking. But that makes sense. We've all been there. So how much pain can you absorb before like how much pain can I absorb before I have a mental breakdown. I lose the plot and I can't come to work tomorrow. Well, that would fall on Beck or Michael. You know what I mean. So I say, if you're not prepared to, because if you're going to be successful, very successful, you're going to be equally loved and hated. That's the truth. Right. And if you're not prepared to put yourself out there in any business, you won't get eyeballs, you won't get scalable amounts of clients. So these this day and age, it's a lot of social media. It's a lot of it's not just referral anymore. Like I can go and get 500 new customers because of the value I put in the market for free paid tomorrow. If I want to turn something on because of my market presence. But you can't go get 500 referrals tomorrow very easily that you can convert. So I'm going a very different way to the average business and it takes time to like taking me years to perfect. It's not something that most people could do overnight. They have to be prepared to go. Yeah, I like the idea of having 500 new clients every month on autopilot. Shit, I'm going to have to spend two to five years to get there, but I'll get 20 and I'll get 50. You know what? I'm really comfortable at 100. This makes sense. I'll just stop at 100. This is a really stable business model. Not everyone has to be as big as we got. So what happened with you that where you went from bootstrapping to then partnering? What happened? What was the change? So we bootstrapped from like late 2012 early to 2013 and then 2019 was much like with Michael and that was a tour opportunity for speaking and we'd been to all these events and played full out, well, backplayed full out. I kind of like an attorney, whatever before I had a break through myself. We were a front row. We did dinners. We did events. We traveled to Australia, traveled the world. We did a whole heap of personal development because I was a fuck with it. Still am, but work on it every day. And that really allowed us to have that proximity. And that was that proximity to Michael, to Michael Lane and Michael Burnett and the guys there from SR. And that proximity then just ignites conversations and they get pitched all the time and something did happen one day. There was someone on stage making a claim and I was like, fuck that. Right. Straight to the flattened lounge. Michael's having a coffee. I'm like, hey, that's a load of shit and I can do that. And he was like, okay, settle down, mate. But it instigated a conversation from there that we work through, you know, a long period of time to is, okay, I've got a speaking spot for you for this national tour, Sydney Melbourne Brisbane Auckland. Okay. But I think it's a hard decision. Like if you're doing a startup, you've got to first have proof of concept. And I think people can easily go into business with each other, have no documents, have no concept of who's going to deliver what will you both stay committed when it's tough when it hurts. And then it falls apart. Right. So if you are going to partner, it's very hard to trust people in 2025, 26. You've got to find the right partners, the right human beings. And if you've got to also look at if we are successful, what will money do to that person? Will they still be the person they are today where we keep the real same relationship or will it change? And if we fail, what will no money do to that person? Because that could be even fucking worse and more volatile. Because I mean, it's easy to split money if you got it the fight over. If you got none and it's breaking and you both got to fucking fork out money to pay your payroll and your wages and your office rent. Well, that person just throwing the town and leaving in the lurch. So I think people should always make sure they got proof of concept in any market first. And then find some a new align with them and there's some really good people in my industry at the moment that are doing some really cool things. Like Christians and example, he's going to remember they've got to create a phenomenal business out of Flint where they're actually building a phenomenal business attracting great talent, all of that stuff. There's some really good operators out there that choose to partner together. But then there's operators that choose to partner together and it ends in tears, tears and tantrums. So I think you can learn a lot from other people's ventures again, those mentors, etc. coaches, whatever. You know, you can look at other ventures and go, oh, how did that happen at Canva or fucking XYZ Realty or whatever or yellow brick or how did that happen? How did that merger happen and did it work or not because some have been fucking horrific? You know, that didn't work because of personalities or that didn't work because of belief see like. So you can anyone who there's so much knowledge in the world for free anyone who wants to pull their finger out of their arson research can learn it, research it and make an informed decision. But they've got to be able to execute. Yeah, that last piece. It's just that little. And now I think that's what so sad. I'm just laughing you made. But that's what makes it so sad. It's fine. When you pass that when you pass that knowledge down a tree and you actually see people like you've given examples of Oliver or young Kudoska. But you just you pass on a gen you actually said them go out and execute it. It's the most rewarding thing. Yeah, Mum and Dad pay their house off get a handful of properties. Oscar's work to drive the talk about that is worked full time with the equit school became a full time apprentice chipy with his dad to follow in dad's footsteps and works in a factory overnight is doing 60, 70 hours a week sharing it in our thing. He's like dad lets him sleep on the drive to work. Sleeps on the drive home. It's dinner goes to a warehouse all night comes home sleeps five six. Like what 20 year old kids do on 60, 70 hour weeks to full time jobs. They're not they're not. But he bought his first home and then I see kids out there with their mocha choker latte. Then their order and their toastie for lunch. Then they're out for dinner and Uber eats and then they're paying. I'll never afford to buy house. What's your thoughts on that because let's unpack that you know it's it's you know 20 every year all over the news. It's all it's it's it's spooked everywhere you know we can't get in the market. It's too hard. Everything's at a time. I'll you eat it. So what would you say to what would you say to that generation coming through you know. Yeah, we hit the streets and ask the generation as well. But look I would like I said I see young guys in their 20s with Rolexes. Yeah, that's just a fucking. It's still it's piss take right like unless they're making phenomenal money. But if you're wearing a Rolex and you don't own a home. You made your bed fucking lie in it. Right. If you're driving an AMG and you don't own a home. Make you look major bed fucking lie and it pull the covers up and enjoy. Yeah, like you know when you're spending when you're paying rent and paying a car payment the equivalent of rent or mortgage. That's a decision you made. So I think and that's very common more in the CBD sort of areas. But you know what the big thing is these days to get an apartment quarry to our family there. 100,000 dollar four-wheel drive turbo things with 50 grand accessories second year apprentice and I'm like what the fuck yes. To all of a like and then they're winging the car never afford to get off the tools of buy a house. You got three jet skis you got a second car you got 50 grand of fucking accessories on your four-wheel drive. Right and then and then you're the pub every afternoon punch in four or five beers or nose be like. So I think there's always going to be in every society globally the haves and the haves not with civilized society you have the haves and the have nots and you know what it is it's not have money and not have money. It's have financial literacy and not have financial literacy. I don't know anyone that's financially literate that blows their money. Because they know how hard it is to get they know what to do like young Oscar. Oscar could be married and divorced and lose half the property he's bought. But you'll never take the knowledge of how to do it off him he knows head down by my double shifts lots of work in two years he bought a property okay directly taking two years and second time around if he's pissed off and angry and got a point to prove. No fuck no it'll be 18 months yeah he's got people to prove like I did right yeah that's the thing I try to instantly people stop buying your kids shit that you never had. And start teaching and the things you were never taught they want the box anyway. He gave you the fucking cool toy like about all the bottle they play with the bottle cap right the car keys the in an object like. So it's really hard I think I think be careful people partner and look life's another one to a good partner in life. Fuck mate they say behind every successful man is a surprise woman and boys my wife surprised. But a good partner will send you into the stratosphere a bad partner and it's always afterwards everyone's like told you that person was bad for you and you're like I didn't see it at the time. Like a good relationship partner King point fuck send you the stratosphere a bad one ruin your life and there's a compound effect to that because if you fuck around and find out five years later when you knew the whole time really. It's the it's the sunk cost fallacy of you heard of that is a book by Ralph Debelly R O L F D O B E double L I called the art of thinking clearly great book. Even if you hate a book each chapter is about two pages and one of the and I read this book frequently when I'm traveling I always have a copy of a plane. So you can pick it up random chapter and it's just a life lesson one of them's called the sunk cost fallacy so give an example Nike 10 million dollar marketing campaign 24 months 12 months in. Spent five million dollars not a single sale has come through for this new piece of merchandise. I am in the board me well we've sunk so much money into it and we've sunk so in a cost of five million dollars and we've sunk a year into this program after two years. Sunk cost fallacy will see it through they burn another five million dollars and don't get a single sale that's the sunk cost fallacy it's in a book amazing versus we've invested two years of R and D plus one year of marketing and sales into this we've burnt five million dollars and we have no revenue cut it and redirect the other five million dollars to a different project that's going to work hopefully. It's like the pockets chase the future chasing the future chasing the future. Coaster jammed in the button. It's a dark about the ash on themselves. And the pension intravenously fed on Thursday morning into the machine. Three cookies, three coffee. It's fucking sad. Sunk cost fallacy and we only talk about what comes back out love that what would your advice bit of the young guy or girl that's saved up the money and they've got two options one they go start the own business whether they're trading they go to the wrong thing or whether they go by property. What would you do if you have the income to buy a property. Fucking buy a property especially where your pa yj employee because banks love that shit the minute yourself employed you fucked for three years now yes there's banks out there will lend to you with one years financials and lie docs or a low document loan and all this shit right. But let's be clear if you want to get good effective decently priced cheap money from a reputable lender that won't ruin your life hopefully you're going to want to get it from a mainstream bank you want to be employed with pay slips and not in probation very simple and you can borrow 95% 97% you know two or three percent you're there. So I would say to that young person if you have a borrowing capacity right now and you don't buy a home that is proven unequivocally it's called inflation our wages have gone up values have got up fuels gone up foods gone up nothing has ever become cheaper. Buy a home. Do you think homes will continue to go up and value? Absolutely. The people have made a career out of dribbling shit about market corrections and I'm not even a broken clocks right right right twice a day. If it's not spinning it's right twice a day if it's not even executing. No batteries in the fuck up and yet these people make these careers of the market the market do you remember bricks and slaughter coming through covert bricks and slaughter on one of the TV shows. So we were going to crash 20 to 40 or 30 to 50% down we grew 20% in the same time they were fucking 50 odd percent wrong in the wrong fucking direction. Bricks and slaughter and they got a couple of economists and they snipped what they said for hours to make it sound fucking horrific. Yeah that's the media upside down pyramid thing no good news story of a sold a rag and I feel sorry for him traditional media is dead. It's dead right people just going to socials and shit like that so they've got to have headline grabbing shit bad shit right. That old story has come and gone like the fucking sun comes up and goes down every day wind rain water whatever it's not it hasn't happened when you look at it post production pop this up from doc Wilson. Like the biggest correction of the cat with it was 5.5% we've had four corrections in the last 40 years I'll pop the graph up here and be like. Like and then after every we've never had to sequential corrections like year on year we've had one like apragot involved in lending like this fuckers are about to again and go let's make it harder the market's hot well if the market's hot stop fuck around and finding out government on this stupid housing policies to win votes because that's all you're doing you know trying to help people get into homes trying to win votes the policies are political correctness they're not policies with any thought. So when you look at that every time we've had a little correction apragas all we're going to increase investment lending 1% per annum to slow down investor lending that doesn't fucking help a home owner buy a home at all. All it does is just make it more expensive so all the deal is drop the market values for one year and then when they took it off guess what happened the next year we had this thing called pent up demand and it went even fucking wilder. That's true let's introduce a low deposits game all the prices went up let's introduce a bill Bruce all the prices went up let's be very clear housing is like fucking oil gold and water and it is globally some people sadly don't even have a fucking home. It's all just a manufactured marker. The fucking broken system. How are you out of the moment in your business now going global. We'll call it global. Any other markets outside of the US where you're seeing big opportunities I would assume that the US you know there's probably a lot of collateral damage in terms of the way that they're banking system works because I know that like you know it's a lot of agenda driven like Australia. Have you isolated any other countries where you see opportunity for you to go out and your families in education with Australia UK US UK Canada and there's some other stuff sort of UAE but that's more investment related but from a lending mortgage perspective Australia USA UK Canada and New Zealand. We what we partner up like to be able to penetrate those different money markets we have to partner up with people on the ground there. And this comes back to the business partner thing we didn't finish off will partner with trusted partners that are on the ground that have got proof of concept that have got solid ethical moral. Reputations are they've got a sense of community already they've got a sense of giving back I say something really key that people understand when they work with us where transformational not transactional. And I say my DM's you want to transact go to Bob the broker above the cabal with the tabooly breath that's not me you want to refine get a better rate and fucking start again for 30 years. I don't want you as a client I want to teach you how to transform your entire financial position and that will transcend borders and it does already started in the US so we've got our first US clients in what I call beta test right now we've already run their loans they're already running the infinity rapid repayment method they're already smashing their mortgages in three months they've all done more than they did in the last year before we met. Is that your main point of difference is your framework and your modeling lucky yeah yeah so you roll that out beta test pressure test make sure it works. It's running out to the community yeah and then we run it out at scale yeah and when you've got proof of concept it's undeniable because it's very easy people cannot like what I say and carry on and do all the videos you see on socials if I put my customer statements in the same financial position and income as yours yeah they're light years apart because my client has the knowledge and they're executing your clients floundering. Do you do like a Tim Samsung like do you like a toy will you go like okay what's my total address will market in like a kind in terms of like you know would you call it a refi space America actually doesn't have a historical refi can you can yeah they do not have one I'm creating one what's your estimate that that time would be like if okay if I could you got about 85 million more inches in America yeah and they don't refine it and I'm going to do 15 to 30 year fixed so everyone will just take a 15 year mortgage and fix it for 15 or 30 years and fix it their toll to their cash out to buy again occasionally but to know because if you get a mortgage you get a first yet another mortgage you get a second series yeah so typically in America just get your mortgage you fix it for 30 years which makes sense if I lend you a dollar today and so it's going to cost you 10 cents okay and I got it for 90 cents I'm going to make I'm going to make 20 cents well that's when the money well the money doesn't change my cost of money today when I lent it to you right well America's like okay I lend you the money today you can fix it for 30 years just pay it back I borrowed it I got an invested to give it to me a dollar and I go over to you at two that's my cost I've got to give them a dollar so they fix for 30 years or 15 years we don't as is more than they have variable adjustables but their markets wild absolutely wild it's the main differences over there a like here a broker will write a loan as an intermediary and receive a commission of about 0.6% of a loan in America they don't earn less than 2 to 2 and a half percent of the upfront loan amount that's how fuck this system is so again I can go and break the market because I can undercut everyone you're going to get shot probably so all you do that easy I could go and like it so I do that here I charge fee for service right so I can say I will make no upfront and trial commission but you pay me a fee or pay me a fee for my service and I'll do all these other things like in this is the problem like I call it auto takers most industries in real estate finance elected they're just waiting for an order to be filled they fill the order they transact it's transactional transaction ends and they're done punch the ticket punch the ticket see you later then they listen to someone like me or someone like that in any industry like wait a minute what the fuck and they're messaging their banker or their electrician order hey what didn't you tell me about oh no that's bullshit hang on here me out I just did some mass oh yeah I can do that if you want well why didn't you fucking do it so I really got a refinance from your bank and you discharging load the form oh hey hey we've got a deal for you if you didn't give a fuck about me when I was there I'm not staying now so out of that 85 million what do you reckon the average loan size would be that's so variable from state to state typical typical average home loan a lot of the states will work with initially be anywhere from 300 to 500 and then the investment stuff would do is typically 700 aggregate debt across one or two or three properties would you try to canvas as much that 85 million but like if this if obviously you know Americans are great for community if something really really well like that periscount also now as we're launching in the new year if we convert the same percentage that I do in the Australian market and I'm not trying to grow my is like I'm just the same process in day in day out as far as the business if we convert the same percentage of market share here is there I'm bigger than anyone I'm bigger than rocket mortgages well if how and does that what's the timeline attached that percentage of all I reckon I could do it in a year or two which is wild but that's just how my brains wide I reckon if I gave it a big way saying is the next podcast on a private jet call call it the next one in America let's shoot it yeah call it call it call it two years because I'd want 12 months of social proof of this wasn't a get rich quick I did a lot of debt for three months and something went wrong when you got a years worth of statements and I build up thousands of people with a years worth of documented statement to results it'll be undeniable unquestionable do another speaking to hope I don't get shot then rock and roll game over then it's just let's go because once you got undeniable social proof like you look at my cast right my clients tell me some of them have had hundreds of messages from people going have been watching this fat little fuck for years it's a legit or what because he's pretty loose and they're like man and I don't know that so I've told him changed our life but it may or may not work for you you've got to execute he gave us the tools we had to execute clients got to be involved in the process how do you decide on what market to go into next whether it be America but there's obviously the sub markets the different states how you making that this is a clear of a couple of states like in New York they have a refinance tax they charge a couple of percent if you refinance there's no competition at all why no so we'll probably do 48 states really so there's only a couple we won't do but we'll slowly work into that around offices and time zones and all sorts of stuff and and I'll start I'll start with the places I think need the most help because that's how I'm wired so I want to start with those places that have good sense of community but need help we can also inject into those communities and actually help change them when then there's other places it really need help but it's a one trick town where the timber mill shut down and everyone's going to lose their home I can't help them because I've got no job or no income it's really sad right they're quite spread and vast there and again those towns that have got decent slices of the pizza nice full even slices but need help because of cost of gas and because of when they have property taxes over there I would decline on the books now in Chicago their property tax is the same monthly repayment as their monthly mortgage that's how they keep society people in or out of an area they pay a monthly property tax annual property tax the same as their monthly mortgage just say your mortgage is two and a half grand a month you pay two and a half grand a month property tax to live in that neighborhood that's over there it's like that's their land tax that's their bins their rates their services yeah that's the property tax so an affluent area as you get up to as high where you feel safe and all that sort of stuff that affluent area can be as high as your mortgage each month so what if you say you lived in the affluent area I'd your house for 20 mil but you were paying the equivalent property tax like would you self to pay the tax to live there if you were debt free yeah property taxes you never you never you could pay house off we never live in you know bird for you still going to pay the property tax just a living straight what a crock of shit it's like a lot of it's a lot of it's a lot of it's pretty and they have high-oners corporation so America what I've realized everyone's clipping the ticket yeah of course the margin like if Australian margins are tight like this America's like that like they have title insurance like over there you have a buyer's agent and a seller's agent you don't usually ever deal with it you real estate agent direct just so you add I don't deal with you I get a buyer's agent to engage with you to make sure you don't screw me now two people are getting paid to do one job like their market is wild the guy put an air in your tie I get to fucking commission yeah it's wild and you know over there to service alone when we talk about the GFC start and stuff do you know what they do is they pull a credit report and whatever's on the credit report they determine you've got everything else left to spend in Australia we look at your statements and your actual expenses and all of that over there they just pull a credit report and go yep you've got a car loan and you've got a credit card well they know that other money they don't even living you can just we have the household expense measure here they just go you got all that other money you can pay a loan whether you do or not up to if you can't eat it's fucking loose does that mean America's subject or it can be a lot more volatile like another GFC it can be yeah absolutely are you going to um are you going to get into the selling side of things over there into like selling so off the plan don't know yeah we'll see like phase one is just purely help with mortgages yeah and uh they were don't die wondering and think fuck of I had the global impact and if that works you know a team can filter into other markets um but your phase one is just more so the beta test now and first three months everyone did a better result than they did for a whole year so if they did 10 grand we did more than 10 grand in 90 days of our method with the product there would you encourage brokers not to encourage more competitors for yourself because you just competing with yourself what would you encourage brokers to to push the message you're pushing and educate more I would say everyone in my industry if you don't do it you're a fucking idiot you're going to die it's you're going to become a dinosaur because if AI goes the way it's going comparison sites AI all of that people can actually do enough searching to understand a pds and features and credit policy and it will there's lend us some great guys and girls in our industry now going down the AI route where people can go into their system not a human spit it all in it'll fit the credit policy and it'll get it approved so I say for a lot of our industry if they don't start helping see here's the problem all of my industry the give a shit have so much expertise and knowledge in their brain like a lawyer and accountant or a doctor yet they're so fucking lazy to execute on it or to shit at their job or scared to charge a fee for their expertise their pitch is I will help you for free and get paid by the bank my times not free none of your times free the doctor's not free the account is not free does use does your expertise of 10 20 30 years not warrant covering your time I've never had a client not want to pay for my expertise but the cocoon of the industry is to maintain the bull shit it's really complicated you can't do it without my help and don't worry I get paid by the bank cut that shit open I agree because you can get on chat GPT and study credit policy you work it quick I'll put my panel like I'm just trying to work at a quick budget or higher or whatever I just run my panel through AI and it gives me crystal clear optics I can press your test that beta test different ideas I don't have to pay an account 12 hundred bucks in the out of sit down we can explain it and I'll send that to the count you go fuck that's good yeah now the the difference is if you send it to the account it's that's pretty good probably get a new account yeah because what we're getting in there so I'm going to call you to all the basic bitch that I don't want to do on an expert that goes what the fuck is that you like oh while I what are you doing and they come back and they send me something that's so wild I'm like whoa what's that and they've like I've done a cash flow based on weekly quarterly did it it is here's your here's your burn please your metric here's your cash burn right here like he's all the variables here's the contingent is like fuck now we're talking like that's my say if I like they're running shit that's wild that I have to even keep up with in a board room and I've been doing super time like that's cool they can tell me my bank balance in six months that's cool really yeah I like it blown away like that and then they can tell me my debtors and creditors and they can go on average this percentage of people do not pay on time they pay in this time when they pay and this percentage of these brands do this and they can model it all and so many times they're right that these people pay three months late or two days late and these ones pay on time every time and we're constantly projecting that and that's that's like a lead 200 200 amounts to feed yeah you can clients revoked like rely upon you getting that right you fucked that up you fuck up people's lives how much how much assistance hammer obviously I would help a lot and like a weapon CFO but like how much you guys leveraging those text acts now no I think we're going to know any now accounts department yeah it's big yeah full time and I'd have the best tech yeah and then like pay roll now like I didn't know I found out recently I think zero doesn't do more than 200 stuff so I've got to go to a global payroll system now that's like going and buying sales force of payroll yeah right I call this which shit yeah she's just different scale of problems just which it that comes up what do you say in terms of that level of infrastructure like an ace had to keep law and stuff separate you know like we've got a couple of other real estate business and some other things and I look at a lot of business collosh is a real estate business that's could they've got accounting and law internal right yeah mitigation stuff yeah just make sure like you know T's across I think that's smart when you say like you look at someone who's got an amazing successful business like that where they do like in house council and stuff like that like I've sold property through them before they're amazing what they do they've got in it before before I've even spoken a my solicitor in some cases and waited for a reply they've had in house council provoked all and I just think that's slick efficient smart like it's a service value I don't pay any extra for that right but then everything will still go to my solicitor yeah they're just more efficient yeah so I think I don't know how you work that in because I'm not paying for that service they're going to fund that out of the company because I love to you know between I guess the different businesses that we've got and I have and you know trying to sort of integrate all that but having like law or accounting see say if I say all the people you know replacing yourself with all the people that is way better than you do that honestly you want to be the dumbest person but like a new key like a like a brain trust like a new too much of operations that like nothing's going to get me so like you know he said you know I've got my say phone like that and then another eight of them you know just just creating these crazy brought you want you want like you go okay I ask you like my skill cities this vision out I need yet I'm going to go to the creative right I need that in every department I need my level of skill yeah every single arm of the business say we've got about 40 staff would we be too small to start implementing because I feel like we're too big to not have it but maybe too small to I do as a service offering I feel like it would be such a good service I would do a cost benefit analysis how could I forecast that so for example say you did say look by the time your lawyer responds and they're busy and this week you do all the relevant searches we could pull the body we could do this this and this and for us to do that it's I'm just making up a note that $1,000 plus GST but it's done like if you're doing 20 of those a week yeah there's 20 grand yeah and pace for the the solicitors wage in the paralegal's wage and then everything's done and bundled up together the contracts ready to go you send it to the solicitor they're sort of more tick and flick now yeah so I would do a cost benefit analysis of what what you could charge and what you would get in return is it a value add is it a value proposition to the customer and it's just a B test at the moment it takes three days for a client solicitor responding if they respond right you got a chase and well having that to be able to get that documentation all the legalities done and everything put on a plate back to the that could be in the difference of a buyer or no buyer and then you would if you did then test that you would be able to get data and metrics in 30 60 and 90 days of everybody who let us do this internally and paid the extra $1,000 which may or may not be deductible we had the following returns on their transactions and got to market in X not Y it's easy when we waited one to two weeks for people's lawyers to respond and went backwards and forwards and waited on searches that were aggressively located whereas that in house council probably get really good relationships with the local council when they need staff rates notice like yeah which is that's the unquantifiable metric that you'd like that's the real cost benefit to the buyer so if you've got a copy of I don't even know where my rates notice is yeah well I should have said a different name yeah like we got married like I guess so you got me willing to invest in that infrastructure and that that ecosystem yeah yeah shout out to Colossi to your weapon it's gone great this is another young episode mate I think for me this podcast was a bit more business and finance centric what for my last question for you on this episode what advice would you have backed your 27 year old self with business and finance 27 year old self you're right yeah yeah 27 year old self I think a bad way I was just prior to divorce I would say fully fucking headed yeah I was I was nowhere near is with a guy with the Rolex at 27 or what do you mean no no I was just a total fuck with no I was more interested in work hard play hard but not really work hard so what I wanted at 25 to 28 maybe 29 was there was work hard but like do a lot of work but then I work life balance and I don't really believe that exists or I don't have kids at the moment so it's like for me back then I was just a fuck with like I just I wanted to make keeps the money like most young people but I didn't want to go through the full efforts of like I just I just want to make keeps the money that was it because I was poor I want to make keeps the money and that's the end of story like there was no impact there was no legacy there was no plan there was no why I just wanted to make money because that's what you want to do and I think anyone listening this at sub 30 that's probably my I just want to make money for make money all my problems go away no just make sure fucking problems bigger and that's the truth like you got more to lose you got more to fight over like all it does is magnify it like you can have a normal job and want to make money but not make money and if somebody goes wrong there's nothing to lose you just get another job but yeah I would yeah fuck I would give myself a massive upper cut and wish that I was making the impact now with the values morals and ethics I have now back at 25 what needed to change or what to now you I look at you in your why and your mission and your purpose so yeah so you can change life on it yeah yeah fucking fuck the way yeah yeah how did you develop that pain and suffering it just comes through like it's something that just organic to the curdle divorce pain and suffering going without and having to figure out how to start myself again and with back and realizing how fuck the system is when you start from negative when you start from negative and realize interest and fees and debts you got to negotiate and pay and that's the true when you start from upside down boy will you figure it out quickly because you've got no one come in a saviour and when you got to figure that out quickly a smart person will spend the time and energy on really digging into fuck I shouldn't have a credit card because it got me in trouble I shouldn't do it like and you'll break it down very detailed the average broker has gone through whatever they've gone through and now they're a broker and they sell a product and they provide a service and they get a commission and that's it that's like selling a client a boat and they don't have a boat license and they don't know which side's port and starboard what's a bow what's a helm don't like that okay so you can go get your boat license and study it and get a tick and flick but if I can't you the keys and push you off the dock what's likely going to happen you know which side you meant to go past somebody on you know which lights mean what the markers meet if I'll be here to fucking Samber you probably sink I use that analogy in a mortgage the broker can sell it to him some of these people still rent but their license to sell a mortgage we talked about before the people yeah I've got a property like that's okay but be honest about it and say this is where I'm out on my journey but this is where I'm heading I think what I actually know what I lacked at 27 was a very clear personal why I didn't know where the fuck I was going I just wanted to be successful and what does success look like if you don't know where it ends like I could have sold this business a hundred times over it is so powerful and I refuse to for any check for any amount of money because it will change the community and the bean counters would run it and right now it's run by humans that deeply care and you can't compete with that it's calm so I would have told myself to fucking grow up figure out my very clear direction and why and what did A to Z look like and fucking focus on just that because and I have done it now I did it I started at 2930 to 40 to spend 12 30 hard years I know exactly what I want I've already achieved it now I'm doing things because I enjoy them I can imagine that in 10 to 12 years going to work as you want to donating because you want to actually yeah I executed but now I don't have to do shit in 10 to 12 years so I spent 12 years of my life like no one is prepared to and now I can actually spend the rest of my life however the fuck I want to and that's not being ego that was 12 years of blood sweat and tears I did a free webinar with three people on it my last live I did I had 5,800 and something on it was 12 years as a percentage you know like if it's 12 years out of a lifetime and nothing then do the math yeah 12 years head down bum up to the unlock all that exactly and and the lessons now you can share with other people I love nothing better than to do this or go to Breckier lunch to Hey man how you go fuck man I've got this problem in my body record make it rid of them but ask them what they give them a life lesson what do you think fair and moral and if they're a ship bag given the money back and move on because you're just going to let them extract energy from you and guess what karma is real yeah it is I've done so so much so deeply for so many years now I almost wanted to deflect the good karma I get because I'll always on a word or you've got your word people can think whatever the fuck they want but as long as you back yourself and do the right thing be a good human being nothing else matters as long as you wake up tomorrow. Hey man yeah well said man a big shout out to our main podcast sponsor that's made this podcast possible view.com.au for anyone over the Christmas period that wants to get a better understanding of what their properties were maybe you want to look about up sizing or downsizing your family home or even search for your next investment definitely look at view.com.au thank you for supporting us with this episode. Hey guys thanks for tuning in to another both sides podcast this one I say a big thank you for the support up until now if you've got value from the episode could you please go like and follow us on the social platforms for example Spotify and YouTube as it will help us continue to get better quality guests. Bye for now.