EP #141: How to Trust Your Gut and Other Lessons on Leadership with Mike Indursky, Founder of Hear Me Raw & Former President of Bliss Spa

Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host Stella Stephanopoulos, and this week I had the honor of getting to interview Mike Endersky, who is the founder of a sustainable skincare company called Hear Me Raw, but prior to stepping into entrepreneurship, Mike spent decades of his career in the corporate world, formerly as the president of Blis Spaw, and before that the CMO of Burt Spees. And so when I sat down with him, I was like, this is going to be a great conversation because Mike is a marketing guru, and in my own fun creative capacity I'm kind of creating an environment where I test and learn marketing strategies with my podcast. So who better to learn from than someone who was so well-versed in that space? But that's not even where our conversation went, and we have a really interesting story to how we met, which I get into right at the beginning of this interview. But truly I think one of the largest themes that we discussed in this episode is kind of dissecting Mike's career path, understanding true authentic leadership, understanding the importance of leaning into your intuition, how to trust or gut, how to develop trust from others as a leader, and how to really advance in your career in certain frameworks that you can adopt to accelerate in your personal and professional life. And separate from leadership, entrepreneurship, really developing yourself from a professional perspective, we talk a lot about the ways that happiness, enjoy, and creating a sense of optimism in your life, and having just really good energy can attract the right opportunities for you across all areas of your life. And Mike draws from personal examples, his own philosophy on cultivating joy, how he lives his life in alignment with his values around happiness and being positive, and he talks about really what brings him joy and endorphins in his day-to-day life. So there's a lot of really important takeaways here that I felt like I got out of just our conversation, and I think all of you will really feel through getting to listen and kind of be in Mike's brain for 45 minutes. So excited for you all to dive into this episode, to learn more about him, his journey, and the founding story of hear me wrong, his passion around skincare and the beauty and wellness space. But before we dive into this episode, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform that you prefer. Hi, Mike. Thank you so much for coming on to Every Day Endorphins. I'm so excited to be on this. Nice to see you again, my best new friend. I know. I mean, it's crazy because I don't know if it's New York City being a city where there's just high energy and crazy things happen, or if it's just energetically what was going on the day that we randomly met each other in Soho. But I think the way that our paths cross is one of the most like unique, serendipitous stories ever. So I want to just start off by letting everyone who's tuning in to this interview know how Mike and I met, which is kind of crazy. So I was walking in Soho coming back from a pop-up event. And I saw Mike, you in the street crossing the sidewalk in a shirt that said something about happiness. Do you remember the exact language? Happiness is supermodel. Yes, happiness supermodel. And I've kind of been in this era of just going up to people randomly because why not? And so I saw that and I was like, wait, I got to take a photo of this because I love anything happiness related. So I stopped you, asked if you were down for me to take a photo, which a lot of people are like, they don't want that. So I was pleasantly surprised when you were like, yes, let's do it. And you were like, oh, my friend made this shirt. I don't wear novelty t-shirts and I met this guy. He was the designer at the time and he gave me that shirt at an event and he and I have become my brother as I love him to death and his name is Simone. And I put the song one day, not even thinking about it. And everyone's well, people would walk down the street and smile on me. And I couldn't figure out why. And it was the shirt. And that's just the nicest thing. So now I wear it with intention. So I wear it. I know that you're going to devote that type of response and some people. Well, one one would want to stop me. Oh, so happiness is being a supermodel. I said, no, no, where I'm trying to say, I am a happy supermodel. I am a model of what a happy person's like. You know, okay. And you saw it and you just clicked and then we just clicked and I think we're just like like minded, high energy, positive people. And all but everything else goes away. It's like, you know, it's not guy and girl. It's not older guy. It says too great energy. He's just really appreciating each other. And that's what it was. It continued to our conversation at So House and hopefully we'll continue into this podcast. I loved the message that was resonating from that shirt and your openness and willingness to talk to me about my interest and happiness. And so one thing led to another. And here we are today. We realized that we had so many overlapping interests, your career, been in the health and wellness space for a majority of your career and you have passions for that as well. And maybe we also get a longs for Native New Yorkers. So that's a critical part of the equation. I'm sure. But here we are today. And it's just such a cool story. And before we dive into getting to learn more about you, Mike, for my listeners, I just want to say that if something is calling you to do something, you should listen to your intuition and do it because you never know what opportunities will come of that. And I think that actually speaks to what we're going to really focus on today is this idea of being open to opportunity to experiences because I think your story is really representative of all the great things that can emerge from keeping an open mind and an open heart. Instincts are more often than not completely right. And it's when you talk yourself out of your instincts that you're typically wrong. Some of my biggest mistakes were like my brain overtake my instincts. That's not the biggest successes were following my instincts like all the way. And your instincts aren't like these this fluffy, esoteric, and agmatotype. No, it's a computer that's in your body that's reflecting all the experience you've ever had. It's telling you, here's what to do. And it's telling your heart. And but you're like, well, I don't know if I should do that. And do you? The brain is usually wrong there. Yeah, that's such a good point because oftentimes we let our brain kind of override those intuitive feelings. And it's easy to confuse those with feelings of anxiety that come from your brain telling you to not do the thing you want to do. So it's a hard balance to walk, I think. And what really fascinates me about your perspective in particular around trusting your intuition, following your instincts is because you've been able to translate that really well into your professional life and into your career. So I want to start there and have you share a little bit about your career trajectory now fully in entrepreneurship, having your skincare company hear me rock, kind of what led you to that point? I know you've had a lot of cool inflection points. So I, after college, I worked for five years just doing the wrong things, the wrong kind of jobs went back to grad school and got into marketing and absolutely loved it. And I started this company called Cheesebro Ponds, which was it's not part of Unilever to a CPG company, to impact to its company. They make beauty products, food products and logic products and all the stuff. And it shows it because of all the places I interviewed at, it was one place where everyone was different from each other. And I saw these other companies that were, you know, they all looked like this and sounded like this and I can't fit in like that because I find myself just different. So, but this place, everyone was different. So I fit right in and I didn't even care what the products were. I just liked the environment, did realize I've been working in beauty for 30 years. I mean, I thought it would be a sports or entertaining this point. So I was on oral care, then I was on deodorant, then I was on oral care. And for what it's what, when you're marketing, you have to first big leap is when you get the brand manager. So I was brand manager and I was, my title is brand manager, I was on oral care, which is like toothpaste and mouthwash, brand manager of other oral. And that was my title, brand manager of other oral. And I can't think of a worse title of other oral because there were two big brands, I had all the other brands, like Amp, Peption, and Signal, all the other brands. I suppose other anal would be worse, but other oral was pretty bad. So then they put me on ponds and which is a skincare brand that I know nothing about skincare. I don't know why women put stuff on with pinkies. I know nothing about this. I was lost for about two months and then it all just started hitting me. You're making women feel great about themselves. It's very creative. It's fast movies, trends, ribbons, color driven. You work with photographers, you work with models. I think it's a lot better than anything. I can be working cat litter. This is what I like. I want to be great at it and I've got drippling the business, I want a lot of awards. I was talked about on CNN and I'm a wind fridge. So then the company was so happy with me that you're doing so great. We're going to put you on our number one business detergents. So I got to run the detergent business. It was whisked all in surf. I got to brag to all my friends that I have a $1 billion P&L and it was miserable. It's not what I want to do. I want to spend my life on detergents. So I ran up going to Calvacline cosmetics and that was also part of the believer. Calvacline beer, logger fell, Chloe, Valentino, PCPG, Nautica and was the SVP of all the brands. Then it I think out to the point where I wanted to stay in beauty, Utilever had nothing else for me. So I decided to go to L'Oreal who's the best in beauty. And what an incredible, incredible experience. Not easy, tough place. But you learn the importance of execution, the detail that they look at, and to combine that. And also, they're incredibly strategic. And you wouldn't think that compared to Utilever, but they're incredibly strategic. So I really learned a lot there. But after three years, it felt something was missing. And I realized I wanted to do more in realness and beauty. I wanted to help people more. I wanted to work with a company that had more of a cause orientation and care. I was a very big environmentalist. So that was bothering me. I want to work in private equity. So I literally-- I swear to God-- put in the spirit world. And that's just what I want. I know I'm going to leave. I'm going to go find a company like this. And it must have been two or three weeks I get a call from Perth's Beasts. And Perth's Beasts was now in North Carolina. And I was a very successful, but very small company being able to make lip bombs and skincare and stuff. And I went down there, and I loved it. And I was there for almost five years. When I was there, we bought the company for $177 million. We sold it in four years for $950 million. And it was a huge, huge success. And to work with that team-- and for me to be the CMO Chief Mark Officer, and have the vision I had and the company's support and just the other geniuses and really people. At a time when the time was perfect, and the trends and welders were really getting strong. They were coming in from Japan, they're coming in from Europe. And I just decided rather than being a quirky, fun brand that happens to be natural, be the best natural brand that's quirky and fun. It's a subtle change, but it's a big change, because it shows your intention. And we did fantastic. And then as part of my contract, and we won all these awards, and it was amazing. And then I was going to leave. I stayed for a year as part of the contract. And now I'm looking at CEO of Fendi Katar. And I'm looking at stuff that is really more me. And then I get offered to BCEO Bliss, which is well-nice, global wellness, spa, skincare company. I was there for six years. We sold the parent company for about $925 million. And then after two great successes and a lot of time doing this, I said, and not work with anyone else anymore, I'm done. It's just for me. And I started putting together this brand called HemiRaw. And he was HemiRaw. And I'll talk about more about that later. And in the interim, I was working with Carl Trohanson, helping her develop, giving a line with her, did that for about three years, loved her, and loved the team. And now it's HemiRaw. It's a company run by me and my daughter. It's a skincare that's powerful, because you feel right away, plant-based. That's all plants and mineral-based products, source globally made here, refillable. All the jars have little popups that you can put in and out. And that's simple. It's only five products. Cleanser, and moisturizer, three treatments. That's it. Just hearing your story again now for a second time, I'm even more amazed by how you've navigated all these changes in your career, but also you've been able to craft like a very strong story around what you do, what you're passionate about. And I think a lot of people in my age, mid '20s, late '20s, are especially living in New York City or in urban area, are feeling maybe a little burnt out by their jobs or craving a change. It feels like maybe my generation is more-- we change our jobs more quickly. And I would love to just hear your perspective and maybe advice on this ability to reinvent yourself constantly. How we're able to do that, how we're able to do that in a way that still tells this cohesive and narrative around our passions, our interests as we think about building our careers. Was there a specific framework or approach that you developed throughout your journey that you think may be valuable to people around my age or even a little older, too? You know, it's interesting. It's a really interesting area. Generationally, there's a difference. But when I was working, part of success was how long you stayed. And companies valued loyalty and staying with the company for longer periods of time. I think it's a difference between, it's time for me to go. I've learned what I can learn. I need to learn more things. So you might want to take-- if you're a great marketer and you're in this area, and then you say, I'm not really passionate about this area. I'd like to do it in this area. Then that's a great lateral transition. Now you can work in the area you want to be at. Or say, no, I'm not-- I don't really like it. I want to be finance. So within the area that you're working, you can move. Those are good things. To change just for the sake of change, you're losing the opportunity to learn. And the learning is so important. So many people are doing startups. And they failed. They've never-- we're for anyone before. They've never seen what a structure is like, what a hierarchy is like. And it's important to get those things under your belts. When you do the startup or you do move to something else, you've got a good support system underneath you. I remember I was presented to the board of lawyer. And this is there, pretty big people. But the room had a lot of other people. And they're probably about 1,000,000 people in the room. They each had 30 plus years experience in that room. And I'm like, damn, if I could do the math in my head, I think it's like 650 years of experience. In this room right here, my god. And there's something to that. I would say to people, you know, your age, if you're liking what you're doing and you're getting compensated fairly, stay with it. There's no reason you have to leave after two or three years. Because everyone else is leaving after two or three years. You want to be the person who's like, you know this stuff. You're stronger at this stuff than just jumping because other people are jumping or jumping. Oh, there's like, I can make nobody doing this. Yeah, but chasing money isn't always the right answer. It usually is not the answer. That's a really good point around chasing money just for the sake of that. And I've found too, like, a lot of opportunity has come to me when I really approach the work that I'm doing with passion and with like a desire to learn and to get better at my own craft or deepen my own skill set. And I've found that when I've had maybe like other types of extrinsic motivation, it's actually taken away from being present with the work that I'm doing. And it's not to say that we should want a higher salary for ourselves or whatnot. There may be other opportunities out there that are financially better, but I guess it's just a matter of like how you value certain parts of your job or different parts of your job can give you different things, right? So just figuring out what fits for you. Yeah, but if you're not, yeah, at the same time, if you're not being compensated fairly, well, that's a conversation to have. And you know what the market's like. You know what the other jobs you're offering. You know, I think that's a fair conversation to have with your boss. And listen, love it here. I love what I'm doing. I want to stay here. I do feel not being compensated. You know, as I should be, I think I should be at this level and have that conversation. And if they don't give you a gut, like some type of game plan or something, well, now you have your answer. Now you can do what you want, but at least you are honest and open enough front about it. I've had my niece, social media, she had the company for six, seven years. And she loved it. She learned a lot. And I friends who jump every two or three years and they jump from start to start up. And one of my friends, young friends, also under 20s, everything they promised her never came true. Salary, bonuses, nothing. And she goes from start to start up. So you know what, go to a bigger company next time. You know, don't go because you don't know who these people are. You don't know what financial situation really is. Exactly. I guess separate from just this idea of career mobility and moving from one place to another, something that I was thinking a little bit about as you were sharing your story is the lessons that you've learned through your expertise in marketing. And although I don't have any quote unquote traditional experience in marketing, because I come from the world of consulting and now my focus is more in innovation at Accenture, I've now kind of see building everyday endorphins and building this community and the podcast and doing events as this creative case study kind of around marketing and communications. And I feel like I've learned a lot about the way I approach my own life just through how I communicate on this podcast. But I'd love to hear from you as someone who is deep in the industry, how you've seen marketing, influencer, inform your perspective on life and how you communicate with others and really the importance of storytelling and communication. That's interesting question. I think that it's all about storytelling and the differences that we should do the storytelling. Now, influence is doing the storytelling. It might not be the story you want to tell. And that could be a really great thing. And they might say something obviously become viral and your next biggest thing, or they may not say something as irrelevant. It does not have your cause at all. But that's been the big change is not really being in control of the narrative. It's allowing the outside world to tell the narrative and give them the tools as best you can to tell it. But it is a very, very big difference and so much bigger challenge. And also, now you're seeing the role of influencers are changing. There's some that were effective or ineffective anymore. Now, people are kind of questioning, is this really authentic or not? So I have to say it's a harder game now than it was. I guess with the rise of social media technology influencers, that probably changes the landscape around traditional marketing. We're probably moving away from that with influencer marketing. It sounds like it's a completely different ballgame now. Right. The other part of the question is, so how do you look at things? You do look at how things are branded. Like, I just wrote an article on Donald Trump, and I'm not going to go into too much detail. But you look at the brand that he's created. What is this brand? This brand? that shows ultimate success, ultimate masculinity, do this, you can live this incredible, powerful, rich, macho lifestyle. And that's his brand. And that's really admirable. I'd use it to create that. The archive goes on to other things. But I do look at things like how are things branded and do look at what's the objective of this? With a lot of things and what's my objective? I know I'm doing something, but why am I doing it towards what end? And that's one thing to keep in mind, if I work with, to go to social campaign or email campaign, let's see objective. What we're trying to do here. What you think what the true objective is, you might change what you do. That's something that always stays with me. Yeah, I mean, bringing up branding is really interesting. It's got me thinking a little bit about this concept of building your own personal brand, which I think is now becoming a more popular concept, especially for the younger generation. What comes to mind for you when you think about building a personal brand? It has to be authentic to you. It can't be an aspirational version of you. It has to be authentic version of you. That's aspirational. And it should be obvious in their minds as it is in your mind. So somewhere ago, he's a renegade out there, unrepentant, but passionate loving leader. That's it. But I remember once going through this course where they evaluate you for a week, it's very intense. Right away, she goes, yet you're the rugged individualist. You can't put you in a box. And you have to embrace it. But what's really important, and I can't emphasize this enough is I learned this at the scores. You really have to embrace your strengths much more than you give yourself credit to. Most people are hard on themselves. I'm hard on myself. I can say right now, I'm incredibly creative. I'm an amazing public speaker. And I can say also, you have to embrace that you're hard-blat and completely disorganized. To put what I have to spend so much time on organizing and to do lists. And people say, oh no, you see more. No, those are my crutches. If I don't do this, I just float away. I put my calendar to the half hour. I plan my calendar to the half hour every day. Because I don't do that. I can go out and find an ad campaign that I want to do and miss some important things. So you have to embrace what you're great at, and embrace and acknowledge what you suck at. And you want to spend time focusing on what you best at and what you love doing. And do not spend time on what you suck at and hate doing. And the problem is at school, at work, you're just told, hey, still, you know, you're great at this, you're great at math and science, but you're really not good at English. So you really need to spend your time on English in this. And at work, you're telling the same thing. Like you're so creative, you're so this, but you need some more time and operations. For me to spend my time in operations, when I could be creating great advertising campaigns, great brands, great messages, is the worst use of my time, right? To tell an artist, you know, at an ad agency, you know, be creative, you just spend more time understanding finance. Then he's not creating the next great campaign. And it's the worst if I shouldn't get. When I say, you're great at this and you're great at this. Let's have you do that. I'll find someone else who's great at the other stuff and have them do that. That's how to run a company. That's how to run an organization. But I don't want to give someone like an company, you give someone their review. Well, if you're great at these three things and suck at these two things, I get someone else to do this. You get all A's, you know, I don't want someone to play your position. Because that'd be that great. I want the best forward, the best guard, the best center, you know. - It's like capitalizing on your strengths and leaning into those. Because I think that when you dedicate your time towards the things you have some natural ability to be good at or maybe you just are passionate about it, therefore you spend more hours on it and you get better. You're more likely to do better in your output and then that kind of creates this loop where then you see yourself, you're proving to yourself, oh, I can do this, I can do this, a good job at this. And I now feel motivated to keep going. So it's this like positive upward spiral. - And there's also this, there's also like this arrogance that you have to fight. When you ask to do something that you don't like, you do because I can do it. I know I can do it. I don't like doing it. And it's true that it's like you said without that zeal to do it great. It's not gonna be done great. So yet, does he know what? Yeah, I don't want to do that and be okay with that. - Yeah, you know, you've been in a variety of leadership roles throughout your career. Now you're your own boss with hear me raw. I would love to learn a little bit more from you around some of your biggest lessons that you've learned on leadership. I think being a good leader, being a good people leader is a really tough job to have actually because humans are complex and it's like, well, how do we keep other people motivated and feeling good and feeling a sense of purpose from what they're doing? And I've noticed in my own experience, the best leaders that I've worked with are the ones that show a genuine interest in care in the work that's being done. And then the people that are doing the work and treating them from a human perspective. And so I'd love to hear from you, your thoughts on that and really like what makes a good leader. - That's really interesting. There's a scene in the movie "Training Day" where Densel Washington says, I got five guys who work for me, that's five problems I've got. Every employee you have, their number one focus is themselves. So how do you get some of that on your side? They're focused on their career, their money, it's on them. Interestingly, the most effective CEOs, by and large, were jerks, were you know, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Howard Schultz, from Starbucks, they, no one would say they were loving human beings. What made them different, they had a vision and nothing. No employee, nothing is going to take them away from their vision, nothing. And that's something interesting. It's all about the vision. What they did was, get people excited about the vision, be willing to take the shots, be willing to stand up to the leader, and have a leisure, let anyone challenge me. But until I say otherwise, here's where we're going. We don't have to agree, but we have to align. But when the worker, and I've done this, more times than I care to admit, when the boss is worried about hurting someone's feelings and doesn't go with their gut, and doesn't go with they think, and allows them to do it, and it fails, you hate yourself, and you did a disservice to the company, it disservice to the employee, because you didn't allow the employee to learn that the other way, which you thought was better is better. Now, sometimes you let the employee do it just to see if it works and see, maybe you're wrong, but if something that's critical, I've done that two, two hundred and a half years ago, but you want to have a powerful vision, you want to get people excited behind it, they can talk about it, we can argue about it, but you know, so it's like, imagine it's the last play, an important football game, and the quarterback calls for a pass to that guy, and the running back goes, "No, I should take the ball, "because I can score, he goes, "no, we're going to do the pass." Well, I'm not playing that. You don't want a guy like that, you and I go, I think I should take the ball, but you know what, I'm going to play my heart out to make that pass happen. - Yeah, well, okay, so for me, personally, the football reference did not resonate, 'cause I'm not a big sports person, but I'm sure other people out there will understand. - Yeah, maybe, maybe, (laughs) good analogy wrong audience, sorry about that. - No, very good analogy for probably most people, except for myself, I think I'm the exception. However, I will say that's a really profound point on getting people to buy into a vision, so then the question is, well, how do we get people to do that? As a leader, how do you get people to be aligned? How do you get them excited about something you're excited on? And I think maybe it comes back to this point on authenticity that we were talking about earlier. - Well, it's that, it's also, how important your role is in making this happen. I can't get this done without you. What you bring to this is this. It's not like cult of personality. Here's where we're going, who's ever with me, with me, whoever's not like jump off about, I need you to help me make it. Now you feel a personal, you're vested in this, and I'm counting on you. So now we have a social contract. We have a financial contract, and you know, 'cause you'll be compensate for this. And we've got this thing that we're creating. So there's a lot that's in it for the person if they know they're role in it. As opposed to whatever the guy said, there's gonna do it 'cause he's the boss, 'cause that doesn't work. - Yeah, then it feels maybe transactional or you don't feel like you have that personal stake in the game. That's probably what I was actually referencing more so around like being a human-centric leader. So you have this vision, but there's tactics and strategies from like a psychological perspective, and not like in a manipulative way. Like if there's true authenticity and excitement behind the shared vision, I think one of the best feelings in the world is when you have people on board and you see that vision coming to fruition and coming to life. And I'm sure there have been multiple moments in your career where you've been a part of that and driving that. - And that's exactly it. If everyone knows their contribution is necessary, it's important that the work that's being done is excellence in getting us there. All those things, all that type of feedback is so important 'cause you feel you're part of it. I think at bird speeds and the bliss, especially bird speeds, that was like very, like does mind-blowing would happen. People saw things they never expected. I remember they had done one launch in two years and it was another type of lip balm. And I said we're gonna do 33 products the next three years, 33 products a year. And there's no way we can do this, there's no way we can do this. Like guys, I need you. trust me, I want to help you. And we did. And after the first year, I go, how many people thought we'd be able to do all those products? And no one raised their hand. How many are you, or happy that we did them? And the other raised their hand. So you get people inspired, you show them the way, and they realize they're learning, they're growing, they're part of something big, and everyone got rewarded. And that was like a beautiful thing. But Bliss was the same thing. - As you were sharing that, I was thinking about how, you know, the psychology around getting people to buy into this shared vision. I think requires you as a leader to show up for yourself first so that you can be, you know, the best version of yourself for the people that work under you. And when we talk about showing up for ourselves, that is taking care of ourselves. That's our wellness practices. That's keeping ourselves healthy and happy and feeling fulfilled. So as a leader, how did you balance that? And how do you presently take care of yourself so that you can be the best version for the people that you work with? That is such a great point. And whether it's a big company, it's a startup. When you're on a higher level from a higher-acoustam point, people see you on the jumbo tron. They see you like a time square. And your presence means more to them. If you're a walk-around, showing stress, unhappiness, anger, the place shakes. If you go around cool, determined, focused, happy, powerful, the company feels great. They feed off of you. And like you said, on the airplane, you know, if it's lack of oxygen, give it to yourself, and we give it to the kid. 'Cause the kid's no good, unless you're good, you have to be, and you're sending example every day. I have a pretty different type of wellness practice. Like, I think I told you, this morning did my Japanese breakfast. So I make a Japanese breakfast two, three days a week, which is grilled sand and miso soup, cooked vegetables and pickled vegetables. And it's most amazing. Your energy level is like this. It's just on a straight line and high. And it will last until dinner. And that helps. I exercise in the morning and that helps. And on my day plan, definitely night before. So I can start the day, feel fantastic. And one thing I never do. I never look at emails in bed. If I wake up, I'll do wordle, I'll do connections, and I'll do strands, and the cross repulsal. The cross repulsal is what I do that before. But never emails. 'Cause if I look at emails in bed, do you think it gonna be garbage emails? Work I need to do. Maybe some challenges or some bad news. And there might be some good news. It's not worth all the crap work that needs to be done and bad news while you're at your weakest state in the morning. But if I work out, shower up, have my great breakfast. I start off with this little peak state statement. It's totally Robinson. I can talk to you about it. I feel like I can control anything. I can face anything. So now I look at my emails, I'm approaching them from a point of strength. In bed, I'm at my weakest state. So I'm so everyone, where everything do not look at your emails until you're one of them ready. - I love that piece of advice. I was actually just talking about this on a separate podcast interview. Just around putting yourself in like micromoamans of induced stress that you know we're gonna end. So like for example, working out a great example because you're putting your body under some physical stress and some strenuous activity. But then you prove to your body into your brain, like oh, I can accomplish this. I feel so much more confident. I feel great. You're like operating on a different frequency. And then you can approach like the real challenges in life from a place of calmness and confidence. Like knowing you can basically deal with whatever comes your way. And so the mornings for me as well are very sacred. And I find that when I prioritize myself in the mornings, starting waking up early, getting in morning sunshine, getting in some physical activity, moving my body, making a delicious breakfast, like doing these things that fill up my cup and bring me joy and happiness. Then I come to my laptop and I'm like, okay, I'm ready. And I'm excited. And it's gonna be a good day. So I really do think the morning can set you up for success for the rest of the day. I could not agree more. And it's my Monday is usually my best day. - Wow, that's a heartache. - I know it sounds weird. It's my best day because it's my most productive day because I have fries over. I've already gone through everything over the weekend. Suddenly I prepare for Monday. I'm set. Now as it goes on, things happen and things could change. And so they become, two different becomes almost as good Wednesday becomes a little bit crazy. A third of a day I'm trying to retie and Friday tie everything up. But Monday starts off as the best day. When I want to tell you I was invited by Tony Robbins. - Love Tony Robbins. - So I met him and invited me to one of his seminars for free. So I go there and I rush right away. I'm gonna write notes with a line down the middle. It's what I'm learning about myself and what a great con he's got going. I mean, it's just amazing how they use people to get into the next thing to next thing. But putting all that stuff aside, I also learned stuff. And he has this thing called peak state. How do you get yourself in peak state? Peak state is doing all those things. He does a cold punch in the morning, which I don't know how to do a cold punch. But I do this march in the morning and it sounds so corny. I never thought it'd be the guy to do this type of thing. But after all this, before I start my, before I open the emails and have it on my screen, you plant your feet down and everyone has their own. And you start with this power motion, your hands out like this. It today is gonna be an amazing day. Today is gonna be an amazing day. Today is gonna be an, and you keep doing it. And then you say, it's gonna be an amazing day because today I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna complete this, I'm gonna stop this, I'm gonna start this, whatever it is, I'm not gonna drink. Today I'm gonna finish that email, I need to, today I'm gonna start on this major project. And then it goes through a couple of other things, like what your mission in life is and the things that you stand for. I am positivity, I'm determination, I'm confident, I am love. And you keep going through this mantra until you feel it. And sometimes it takes you one time, saying, you know, I take your chair, throw it across your, 'cause you're ready to dive it. And sometimes it takes you, no, not there yet, get into it. But when you get there, you're on such a high plane that when you go after your work, you're like, get the F out of my way because you can't stop me. And it's an amazing feeling. I never thought I'd be the guy to be doing this. I'd be doing it for, but now, 12 years. - Yeah, there are so many benefits to reciting positive affirmations. And yes, it can sound cheesy and corny and whatnot, but the science is there. And it's actually really basic if you think about it. The inner dialogue that you have in your mind, a lot of it's living rent-free in your head too. And a lot of it's very critical thoughts that we're not even aware of. Like when we let that dictate our behavior, we create an also positive reality. But it's so important to be intentional, which is why we have to take that extra step and like, explicitly say these mantras because then you start to prime your brain to believe it and then you attract that. And Mel Robbins actually says something great. I've seen tons of clips on TikTok with her sharing this, which is essentially what you said, but she talks about how in order to be the person you want to become, you need to just start acting like it. And it's not fake it till you make it, but you need to just take action that aligns with what that version of yourself would do. And the more you do that, the more it becomes a habit. And the step is just starting. If you consider yourself as a healthy person and you think about people who are healthy in your mind, you'd probably analyze their behaviors. And one of their behaviors is probably that they have a consistent physical activity workout routine. So if you want to become that person, then you have to create the time to just go and do that and go and work out. Instead of making excuses, just take the aligned action because then you become the person that you want to be. And I find that writing down those affirmations or visualizing what I want for myself in my life or making vision boards or jerk, like all these practices for me have helped manifest so many amazing opportunities in my life that I'm so grateful for. And again, it's not the same thing as just thinking something into existence and it comes to be. That's, I don't believe in that, but I do think that our brains and our thoughts and the energy we put out there is so powerful that we need to capitalize on it. Like we need to incorporate that into our lives. - Absolutely. We're so much more in control of our energy level and our positivity than we think. And if you start off today, feel kind of crappy, didn't you rise hill with a guilty about that? I'd be open to email and go, oh god, can't. It's gonna be horrible. That's how you can start your day. It's gonna be an amazing day and let nothing get you down. And just for the benefit of your listeners, I didn't grow up this way. I'm a street kid from the Bronx. I'm not this type A, Ted Bro, whatever. In fact, before I was asked to join this gym, it's like the state of the art, crazy price thing. We have cold plunges and red light sauce. And it's an amazing thing, but that's not who I am. I've got a boxing gym. I'm like, that's a lot in Thompson Street. I bike on West Side Highway. So I'm not like one of these like, you know, stereotypical, but you learn tools. And if the tools good, don't be a snob about it. And don't be an anti snob about it. If it's tools good, it can work for you. Do it. I never in my life thought I'd be doing monstrous. I tried meditating, it doesn't work for me. I've tried all the things that doesn't work for me. I'm not looking for the next shortcut. But when you learn something, it works. Yeah. Wait, you can do it. the best athletes and the best performers, they think they're the best. If they don't think they're the best, they want to be the best. I mean, you listen, they think they're the greatest. They really like any basketball player football player boxer and business people. If you can't say I'm the best at something, there's something wrong because everyone's the best at something. When I was at that seminar, I was learning about myself, you know, she told me such to me. So you think it's great, but I go, yeah, I'm pretty great. She's Mike. The people in your company think you were like the most creative person, like they look up to you. Yeah, I get compared to them, but I look up at artists and musicians. She says, Mike, you're not an arts musician. Don't compare yourself to them. You have to look at your field. How are you and your fields? Oh, pretty good. So you have to embrace it. And humility is great. But if it holds you back from you being able to do your best at something, then it's a problem. So well said. I mean, isn't it crazy how we really are our worst critics? And we don't see our own selves in the same way that other people see us. And I think for all williams said this, I have it on my notes app somewhere because I heard him speak during some film event maybe this few years ago. Anyways, he made a comment about how in order for him to have gone to where he's in his career, he's always had to have like a healthy dose of delusion. And I loved that. And it stuck with me because to an extent, like, I think you do need to have that, you know, to your point about these athletes, like they thought they were the best. I mean, they probably didn't start out the best, but they became the best because they thought it. So it's important that I think we strike this balance of healthy delusion and what that looks like also is still having humility and not letting your, you know, ego completely, you know, take the driving seat behind the wheel. So it's something I kind of come back to as well, this concept of having a healthy dose of delusion. Yeah, I like that. I never heard that before. I wanted to take it, but what I was saying before that I want to get back to around like curating your environment, bringing things into your space that bring you joy, that kind of light you up the other night, I used a mask from Hear Me Raw that you so graciously gifted to me. And that was one of the highlights of my night was having my friend come over and we made tea and we did face masks and we had a little slumber party and it was fantastic. So I want to hear a little bit more. I want to turn it back to you, Mike, and have you share your inspiration to starting your own skincare company. I know that's refocused in a lot of your career in beauty, but what was the desire to build something of your own? And I know that you work with your daughter. Let's talk a little bit about those dynamics, the father daughter work relationship because I don't know if I could do it with my dad, but it would probably be fun too. Yeah, I really didn't even want to go back into skincare into beauty, but I was just so tired that their brands that are still making products, most brands make products with ingredients, we shouldn't go on your face, packeding which isn't sustainable, they can cleanse it, can't keep, present too high in product you don't need. And the answer is always been fewer products, plant-based, sustainable. The average woman uses about six or seven skincare products, 60% of women complain about their skin. So right away that's telling you the more products you use, the less happy you are. Why? Because you don't know if the cleanser moisturizers tone or treatment, moisturizers, when you use all of them together, do they exacerbate problems, cause problems, do they cancel each other out? You don't know. And the truth is if you have a cleansed healthy skin and your skin's moisturized, that's 90% of what you need. It's truly the 90% of that what you need. And if it's done right, it's plant-based, cause a lot of moisturizers are petrochemical-based and that's really better to take a piece of ram wrap on your face. Then if you need a treatment, whether it's oily skin or anti-aging or with a lighter motor, or you just want to like, you've vialized your skin, you have to use your treatment for that. But try to keep it down to that and a sunscreen just to help prevent from aging. So we came with this line, it's five products, it's a cleanser and a moisturizer. The cleanser is up for best cleanser award in our industry. We'll find out in November. It's called Good Clean Fungi. And Good Clean Fungi is a quadruple mushroom facial cleanser. He uses oyster mushrooms, racing mushrooms, shogga and tremble mushrooms. And you can see from the consistency, like just a little specks in your hobo beads, topics foliate. I mean, you finish one of these, you pop this out, recycle this, get a new one, pop it in so you save money in the environment. So, you cleanse with this, our moisturizer is the hydrator and the hydrator is made with a triftly pair which is cactus flower. It's nothing but a change of water, a cactus. And it has Mexican poppy stem cells, macchi berry, coconut water, watermelon, cucumber. It's super hydrating. It helps bring moisture to the skin and helps keep moisture from leaving your skin. I said before, most moisturizers use like Copying Glide Call or PEG. And this is petrochemicals. And they do it because when you put oil on your skin, the moisture can't leave. But it also softens your skin, it causes breakouts, it causes a whole bunch of problems and it's not natural. There are three treatments here. Do I think you tried the Breitner? The Breitner is like a brightening, ratings enhancing, I hate using the word anti-aging mask. It's made with chlorophyll, macchegreene tea, spirulina, and so these gooey green stuff. Chlorophyll spirulina, macchegreene tea, lemon peel, glycolic acid, lactobacid acid, and buckooshol, natural retina. You put this on for 10 minutes, your face will tingle and that's the oxidation of the skin, the exfoliation of the skin. And then you wash it off after about 10 or 15 minutes and you put the pink stuff on. And then finally last, we have the clarifier. The clarifier is for oily skin, a skin with enlarged pores, clogged pores, acne breakouts. And it's made with French green clay. And French green clay is a natural antibacterial junction agent. So unlike most actifying products which use synthetic antibacterial, this is a natural antibacterial. It has sea kelp and turmeric to reduce inflammation, has lavender, avocado oil, to moisturize and soothe, and demonetize powder to soothe. It's an insanely good product. That one you put on for like 15 minutes and it's dry and rubbed off. And all flakes off your skin, you wash off the rest and put pink stuff on again. And then the last one is the toxifier which is a charcoal mask to help polish purifying the toxi by your skin. And you do the one thing by this works the same way. You put it out for 10 or 15 minutes, wait for the dry, rub it off, wash rest off, and then put the pink stuff on. I see so many brands that say they're natural. You open up and they're all white. And I just don't know how that happens. If you're putting in chlorophyll, spirulina, monstrosity, and your product is not green. If you're putting in watermelon oil, macubary, and put in the pear and your product is not pink, you're not using natural ingredients. And that whole thing is bunch of so much of what people say is natural is not natural. Natural inspired, naturally derived. There's a lot of game playing in this industry which has nauseated to me. And on the sustainability front, because we use the refill pods and you keep the glass, keep the lid, we use about 86% less packaging than our competitors. In our industry, in the beauty industry alone, every year, one billion pieces of patchy material wants up in landfills, every year one billion pieces. Everything should be refullable, everything should be. So that's why we're doing this. That's the only reason why I'm doing this. And I chose to do it with my daughter and she lives up in Connecticut. So it's mostly virtual. And when I asked me, do you guys fight a lot? I was dating someone. She asked me, do you guys fight a lot? I don't remember having a fight with my daughter. As an adult, I remember ever having a fight with her because I love her. And I want what's best for her. And we have hard discussions. We'll have big disagreements on the business, but the business. She has the freedom to challenge every part of my thinking. I remember we hired someone to do social, a new person to social. And we're having our first meetings and watching me and Emma disagree about it. She was shocked. And so no, this is healthy. At the end of the day, we have very few brands in this place. At L'Oreal, you've got whole teams. We've got very few people here. We need to exhaust their thinking and their ideas and the challenges so that when we make the decision, we make the right decision. So I love this stuff. It can be frustrating sometimes. But I love it, but fighting. No. And what's helped me do also is, well, I shall say my daughter, Emma and I, we share a brand. So you always know what everyone's thinking. To let the thing. Yeah. If we were to play a game against like scatagoras or shuraisy, any two people will kill them. We're just looking at each other and don't get the answer. But our personalities are different. And our taste levels are different. Our things that are more creative or subjective are different. And that's the stuff that's a hard part because there's no right or wrong to creative. So our plan is, if it's your call, I'll tell you what I think. Passion as I can. If you still think you're right, you do it. Same vice versa. But what's helped me do also with the other people I work with on the team. Am I treating her different? Am I treating her different because she's my daughter? Should I be treating them nicer or treating her more sternly? And when I'm at my most honest, I'm treating them all the same. And I keep that in my mind kind of subconsciously as I imagine and make sure everything is fair and balanced and even. It's not like, oh, you know, it's ammo. So you know, she gets a free ride. No, she doesn't. So that's very much in mind. And I think anyone feels like it's a family thing. We start our weekly statuses for 15 minutes is the weekend. I think that's the best and you're so right around like conflict, being a good thing actually and you're creating an environment. it feels safe to speak your mind and to challenge another person's perspective and point of view. And maybe it's a little easier to do that because of the father/daughter dynamic where, you know, from the family front, like, you know you love each other and whatnot, it's very different than working, you know, having co-workers that are not your family. But how do we mimic that kind of environment when it's two non-family members working together in creating a psychologically safe space where you can feel like your opinion and perspective is valued and respected, but also if someone criticizes it, they're not criticizing you, but the idea. It's not personal to you. It's about the business. It's about those objectives and those goals. I do this. I've seen this. The most frustrating thing for a teen leader is when people aren't honest and they're scared that you can disagree with them. They're scared that they might get into trouble, whatever to raise a different point of view. That's the worst place you want to be. I've been in places, I remember this one small time at one of my places where I just felt they were all saying yes to me and just to make me happy. I was wondering is it my, is it something that I'm doing and I'm making intimidating or not? But there's always the youngest person in the room. I kept saying, "Dur, what do you think? Please tell me and if you don't tell me everything you're thinking, knowing I might not agree with you." And people say that they're always worried about if I don't be with them, is that a bad thing? No, it's not a bad thing. But the worst thing can happen is if you had an idea that you didn't share because you were scared and my competitor does it. First, you did the service to the company, the service to me. You heard the growth of our company. You heard your own compensation. If you think about that way, if you go all the way down the line, so get it all out there. And then if I choose not to do it, it's on me, right? But Alicia said it. I remember I was at L'Oreal once and we would have our meetings go monthly review meetings and they could be intense. I mean, they could really intense. And the CEO, Jean Paul Gannoni, we're going at it. And I was VP, he's a CEO. And it wasn't, I told him, I thought, I was passionate about it, but I didn't think it over the top. But there was tension in the room and he finally said, "I need a coffee break." You know, it was a thick French accent. So we go out and I don't know, I was respectful, but you know, I had a point of view when I said, Jean Paul, we're cool. There's no Mike, I love you. You've got passion, you're smart. You show what you think. But you said you see that? Yeah, because everyone there, they're scared. They don't say anything. And that's what his frustration was. He wants to one-have it out at the end. You know, we do it and let's hug and make it all happen. And that's, that's me. Yeah, that's one of my favorite stories that you've shared with me, you know, even offline before this podcast interview. So more of the story, be honest, be authentic, lead with empathy. I mean, there's so many takeaways that I've gained from just this interview, but also getting meeting you and getting to spend more time with you. And so I am confident that everyone who who tunes into this is going to really have, you know, monumental takeaways for themselves. And I'm just so grateful that we got to do this and you were able to come onto the podcast and that we serendipitously met each other. And Mike, there's one final question that I have for you. Well, two, two short ones that I have for you. The first one that I'm going to ask is a question that I ask everyone on the podcast. And I would love to hear from you. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? I know you mentioned the positive affirmations and you're really into your fitness routines, working out, boxing, all those things. But what's something that just sparks your joy every day? When you're plugged in, I hope you're plugged in, when you're open and honest and let that positive energy out, the things that happen, the level of serendipity, of beautifully happen, ramp up incredibly. To walk down this tree, like, "I'm going down the sprinkler the other night. I'm going to ask Balthazar." And there's a bodyguard out there or whatever. And we look each other go, "Damn, you've got great energy." The guy's name is Bruce. And I remember that. And we're talking for 15 minutes. Like, that to me means like, you're on another level. You know, and that was like with you. Like, you're on another level at that point. You're not just being, you know, you're feeling, you're in an energy space. And it sounds, it, yeah, it sounds trippy. It's not kind of guy-in. But like, when you plug in these amazing things happen all the time. That is my sense, how I get my endurance. I love that. And it's very full circle because that moment that we met on the street, I remember that interaction in the morning, like, completely changed the course of my day. I was so happy. And all these other great things started to happen that day. So it really is this like positive, domino effect. And I love that answer. So thank you for sharing that. My final, final question now is, where can my followers try out hear me raw? Where can they get their own product? Go on hearmeraw.com. That's the best way. It's H-E-A-R-M-A-R-A-W. Hearmeraw.com. By the way, get 15% off on your order. I would suggest get good clean fungi. You will have to leverage your cleanser. Well, I kind of told them all, what's best for you. But if you have to try one, try that, or try the brighter, as a radiance enhancing mask, or the higher standards of moisturizer. It's a great way to unwind in the evenings, is doing skincare and feeling those little luxuries in life. That was definitely the big endorphin boost for me the other night. So thank you again for the presence. And for coming on to the podcast, it was so lovely getting to speak with you today. You're wonderful. I mean, if you were on the Dow Jones, I'd invest in you. I buy stock in you. You know, you're going to pay off big. It's probably about big or any, but it's going to pay off even bigger because you're you're dinamic and you're incredible. And to have that level of positivity and happiness and energy and brilliance, which you do is just pretty special. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard and you want to continue to follow along, make sure to like, rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast on which ever listening platform you prefer. If you want to stay plugged into Everyday Endorphins outside of the podcast, I'm on Instagram, I'm on TikTok, and you can also drop your email to subscribe to my newsletter. It's the Everyday Endorphins sub-stack where I talk about the interviews that I've done that month. Any events happening in New York that I've hosted, and just a stream of consciousness of my thoughts. Thanks again for tuning in and reminder to keep spreading Endorphins and finding the things in life that bring you joy. Until next time.