Ep 14 Annie Azarloza

Okay, great. Well, I'm sitting here with Annie. I'm really glad that you were able to come down here. The prior Rochester superintendent for our district through conversation starts having with school board members and during the election period. People asked if I was going to continue doing this. I didn't really have people lined up. You know, and people said, well, it'd be great for you to talk because so much of the conversation from both mayors and school board was pushing for transparency and things like your situation is the exact example why that's important. And you're all the way over in little tin and you still decide to sit down. So I really appreciate this. Hopefully it gets so viral. I start getting paid for Spotify. I'll give you a little stipend from it. That'd be awesome. I'm happy to be your Michael. I appreciate that. So let's start with your background. Like, where are you from? How'd you get up here? Education, all that stuff. Okay, so let's see. Born and raised in Los Angeles to amazing Cuban immigrant parents. First language of Spanish. So I was one of those English language learners, right? Oh, cool. We left California when I was 18. I went to college in Miami, but it was a whole family kind of relocated and huge Cuban population obviously in Miami. I went to school there. I started my educational career in Miami, mostly Hispanic, obviously in soccer. Mostly Hispanic school. It was a Catholic school. I was a middle school social studies teacher. And then I really wanted to move somewhere else. I had my daughter. She was five and I didn't want to raise her in Miami. No offense to anyone raising children in Miami, but it's not a place I wanted to raise my child. No one wants to be a dolphins fan. You know what? Thank you for saying that. I mean, there's 17 years. I could never be a dolphins. So I moved up here to North Africa, Massachusetts, which is such a quaint little town, and great place to raise my kid. And it was a great time to come because the New England Patriots 2006, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I became a teacher here. I was a elementary school teacher, middle school teacher, high school teacher in Foxboro. From there, I became a principal at all, three levels elementary, middle and high school. And I then became, let's see, I was a district director, assistant superintendent. I was when our superintendent in Foxboro left. I stepped in just for the years, interim superintendent was kind of like last minute, so I stepped in. From there, I kind of felt like I had reached the ceiling. It was a school district. There was about 1,700 students, and I kind of wanted to lead in a larger scale. So I went to Worcester, which is, which is like, I went from like that size to 25,000 students, like feel bigger, closer, like I said, right? I was chief academic support officer there. I oversaw special education discipline across all 50 schools, social, emotional learning, nursing. Really, the other side of the house, not the teaching and learning house, but the side of the house that removes barriers that interfere with children's ability to access their learning, right? So I was there, and then I remember my super, my former superintendent was like, "Annie, you know, I'd love to have you for as long as I can get you, but you really should be looking into a superintendent's seat." And so I did, and I put up my, put up, you know, just put up some vealers applied to several places, and I was, became a finalist in a few different districts, and I was like, "Wow, like, this is crazy. I didn't know it was going to be like that." And I remember talking to my daughter, who was 26, and I said, "Amanda, what am I going to do? Like, I'm a finalist. I don't know what I'm going to choose." And she said, "Mom, you've got to choose the first one that gives you that opportunity, you know, they're giving you that opportunity, believing you, you know, that's the one you take, and so is Rochester." And so I'm happy I chose Rochester, you know, when I think about Rochester in particular, one of the biggest reasons, apart from the fact that, yes, I did take my daughter's advice, it was also because it was such a, for me, I love challenges. Yeah. And it was, it was a district that was facing a crisis on multiple fronts. Well, yeah. So, like, you know, low performing school district, you know, highest suspension rate in the, in the state, fractured union relations. High suspension, I mean, students getting suspended. Yes, yeah. I'd say, disengaged families. Like, for me, it was like, this is, I want to be able to, you know, try to do something here. Even if you fix one of these problems is still a big solution. Yeah, yeah. And that, and I'm just a change agent, right? And so I remember talking to my professional coach, he's, he's Dr. Kent Beckler, he's in California, and he is, he is, he's, his firm is leadership and associations, and they place about 90% of the Superintendents in California, but he's also does coaching. And so he's like, any, he was your changing it. I want you to remember something. He's, I never forget this. He's like, change occurs in four phases. So you need to be prepared. He's like, the first phase is elation. Everyone's like, yes. Finally, change is here. Something's going to be different, right? The second phase is confusion. Like, wait, you move my cheese? Yeah. I thought, I thought change happened around me. Not that I have to change, right? So there's that confusion. And then the third phase, he said, which is the most difficult is resistance, also known as warfare, right? Like, no, we're not changing. Right. Too bad. So is that, right? And then the fourth and final stage is acceptance, right? And so I think we all know where we, we kind of like stopped here in Rochester, right? Or warfare, right? Essentially, we didn't get to the final phase, which is where you accept change, you know? It's interesting, the same as a, as a pastor, you experience. So one of the things I learned when I got here, which might be very different of a different situation. I only have 30, 40 people I need to, but you can understand it probably as a pastor, even in Catholic changes very hard to come by. And there are people who come into the church who want us to change very quickly. And a lot of pastors come in and immediately start changing things. I said, I'm going to be here for 20 years. I retire here probably, unless they fire at me, I'm not leaving. So any change that happens here can happen very slowly. And the best thing for me is to let them buy into me. But very frequently when you're in these positions, especially because people are demanding results. And you see what the change you need to have, you have to act a little bit more hastily. And to be prepared for those, those, those issues. Yeah, I talked to everyone in the school boards that brought it up. Our graduation rate is abysmal. Our test scores are abysmal. Just yesterday, or the before, and they had a kid in the middle school overdose, you know, in the school. Like the homeless student ratio is really bad, which some of that's higher level than the school system. But it is, but it is a problem system. And what is interesting in the conversations again is the superintendent who comes here is eager to make the change that they need to because there's so much that can be done. And that seems like that was the reason. During your seventh months here, what did you find the most challenging? I think, you know, when I walked in, I knew what I was walking into, like, again, like a, you know, crisis, right. But I walked in without a team, right. So I started. Everyone had resigned apart from my assistant superintendent who had been there just one year prior, right. So she was a middle school principal before that, right. And so then I had, luckily, I had my director of special education and that she was, I think it was her second year in the role. And that's it, my God. I mean, I had no team, right. I walk in first year, really, like, official superintendency, right. Because I was an interim before in Oxford. But I walk in, I'm like, okay, well, like I often say I'm going to roll up my sleeves. And so we, there was no formal hiring process. So I had to develop a hiring process, you know, and I'm a very inclusive leader so that I wanted to make sure there was a screening panel. And then, uh, which is, you know, comprised of like students and educators and parents and community members. And then from there, they then push forward like two to three finalists and then cabinet, which is essentially my team, which I didn't really have much of a team was like three of us right at the time, right. Would then, um, you know, decide who the, um, the members were. So I had to hire my director of finance. So I didn't have a finance director for over three months. And although I have a general understanding of budgets, like, that's a little scary, you know. Yeah. So that I had to hire my director of operations. I had to, I mean, there was like four positions I had to hire. They're not new. There were existing positions that which is vacated before I arrived, you know. How long were they vacated for? Was it, do you think that could have contributed to some of the issues? Or are you think that, hey, they vacated because there was a new cycle and that. That's a great question. So one vacated June 30th, which was the, um, the finance director, also known as business administrator. The other one had vacated, um, I believe in March of that year. Um, the other one had vacated like a year before that. So we, the district did not have an HR director for over a year. So. So, yeah. Who do you think that would fall over the fall and like school board? You need to find these positions would have fallen. Hey, you need to get a superintendent first and we could fill those positions. Just like, who do I point the finger at? No, I'm just kidding. Just the idea of like, if someone's not there for a full year. Like, that's problematic. Like, are they saying, well, we need to get a superintendent. in here before we so they have the right people around them so they can hire those people or is it what's higher these people so they can come in or the superintendent is can come into a group of people who are already established. That's pretty a great question and I can only speculate I you know I don't know the former superintendent what I could say is you know if if I had been in that place you know I'm somebody that just just get the done right so like okay we have these positions they're vacant how do we how do we make sure that we are you know putting it out there on a large scale right so make sure that we're securing qualified candidates right always in communication with the board to make sure hey this is what we're doing I'd send like weekly like seven page like board newsletters just to keep them apprised if everything so you know again I don't know the former superintendent but if I am that in that but which is what I did actually right when I first came in I'm like okay everybody let's roll up our plates we got it we got a team to build right and so exactly what I did formalize the hiring process that's the first thing you got you've got to have a system in place there wasn't one there wasn't a system in place so and I'm a huge systems developer so you've got to have a system in place once you have a system in place then you say okay now let's make sure we gather the voices from the field to be part of the process because they have to have a voice in this um and then fortunately by the end of September I had my full team um you came on win July first July first yeah I had done in district days in June so I was still working in Worcester but I would come like twice a week in June um just sort of like to ease into it yeah um should you get uh do you have a full a full team or is still kind of a a um like a skeleton crew for the time being and yeah these these people that are coming are they are they local people are they people that you kind of hire out abroad um do the people that import a little mix of both that's such a great question because uh when I came to New Hampshire yeah I was obviously I'm new to the Hampshire I don't have any friends from the Hampshire yeah exactly so Worcester Californian yeah yeah well I'm not I'm not actually Seattle Washington to make all four corners of the United States but when I came it was just like let's put it out there like I am I am I am very opposed to exclusionary practices right so while we want to always build um from within right we want to make sure that we give them pathways to develop I'm huge I really am a strong believer in building capacity of our people we also can't we also want to make sure that we have an outside lens right somebody right somebody coming up from the outside saying whoa hang on a minute what's going on here right so we want a good balance right so our HR director um is Katie Kio who's fantastic I love Katie Kio uh she's still there yeah so she was internal candidate and so she was hired uh then we had her director of operations um he was a retired from the Marines uh and so we got hand David right click another fantastic hire uh outside he was on an internal and I don't believe uh can't remember if we had an internal candidates for that position um finance director um cheek came from higher ed so we were happy to secure and you know those are really hard to come by those finance directors are really hard to come by Adrienne accounts who um I adore as well fantastic uh let's see anybody you're unless that you're knocking the lake and just call him up by name uh let's see I think that let's see that we have oh and then the two positions that we hired through dual funds right so um that were aligned with the criteria we had to get permission obviously uh to make sure was the director of positive youth development um and that's just making sure that you know our youth are making the right decisions right responsive decisions and then our director of community uh family community engagement and that was uh tied to our strategic plan which was communication effective communication collaboration with our community and our staff and so aligned also with the new position or a normal position as it those two were brand new yeah so the positive youth development director and the family and community engagement director were brand new yeah uh approved by the board and uh but they were funded through dual funds right no I was just thinking and you're talking about funding that um you could people might understand that I don't but that's the whole point right to find the issue and if there isn't a thing there let's find because I and people who listened to other ones one of the things we're homeschool family and we've been doing it for a while only because of uh what we find necessity right um not because of the school district but because we moved and we went from Old Oak to Beach to Bitiford to Rochester so we don't want to have our kids sponsor on and we found that our kids were scoring above their grades anyways and they are taking to it so well that we're like well what's this keep doing this so um one of the things that I've said to him was every school board member that I talked to and anybody I can is and from the pulpit even the parent is responsible for the education of their kids and the the the tools they use are just tools so if you send your kid to public school that is a tool that you use but you are responsible so parental involvement in even curriculum or just whatever the parents should be held accountable with as a um mutual team member with the community right so having that position that was vacant I think is a forward thinking idea to be like look we know we can't do this without them and so we're going to build this position that's intentionally kind of looking at directions that position is still there or it's still there this year um and and to your point Micah you make it to an excellent point because you know parents are the their child's first teacher right and so and then for us it's like our job to like um you know build their their efficacy and how they can make a difference in their child's education right so how do we partner with them right because that research shows that when parents are involved in their child's education out outcomes improved oh yeah um and so yes she died and chased another fabulous uh a lady uh we were lucky to get her from um to used to work at Concord I would say that wrong Concord you say it funny is there uh was she coming from a position similar that are existed or did did she come from a different position then kind of no very similar position in fact she also brought in millions of dollars in grants um which is another piece that we were like wow we can you know potentially find additional revenue streams you know that we have to always be finding additional revenue streams so we're not always counting on taxpayers to find education right um what's one thing that stood out to you is very different from your experience in Massachusetts uh from being in Massachusetts and again I think Roth main uh sorry main New Hampshire almost every other New England state is trying so hard to not be Massachusetts I think New Hampshire may be more than others and I think for example like there are candidates that were running that were from Massachusetts and and people were so adamantly frustrated with that idea like no we don't want to be like that I don't know what that means like particularly I don't know what that means um but uh would you find so different in your experience coming here from there so I mean there's lots of things that are that are different from state to state I also worked in Florida as a teacher so right I think that and these are going to be kind of trivial like when I when you hear them you're going to be like really adding that woo that woo one was I think um union relations like for example in Massachusetts we would meet with the union on a regular basis and we were very very transparent with the union right so like you know if for example we were thinking of you know making a transfer of one of their members right we'd be like let's bring on leadership of the union we want to make sure that there are prize of this situation right we don't we don't want to blindside them and we also for me it's also about like hey listen am I interpreting the collective bargaining agreement correctly like is there anything in there even though I know it's my purview because policy says that a superintendent can transfer you know members whether it's a it's a principle or an educator we still want to check with the union you know unless you're doing something wrong there's no reason to not be honest about what you're doing right right so unless you're trying to unless you know deep down that this is going to be dramatic or cause issues then there's no reason to not let people be included with the information it's like um it's like money ball and and when they're the movie and the book obviously too when he's firing when he's getting rid of a player it's like just tell him you don't have to beat around the bush you don't have to hey you know here's your thing here's your paycheck go on to the next that they want they're going to take you or trading you all right and they just leave right it's like you're not trying to do anything shady so there's no reason to not let people know and um the only what happens when you don't let people know things is that will drum up the drama right yes but and the thing is that so I'm coming from having been an educator and a leader in Massachusetts for 18 years with that sort of like philosophy like very open collaboration you know but it's just not the culture here in New Hampshire when it comes to unions and I'm not going to say it was all you because we have you know several unions in Rochester but you know it was it was different and it was unusual you know and so so that was kind of like that was different and I was like wow like um not that they didn't welcome it but it was something unusual for them you know they weren't used to they're uncomfortable yeah yeah and then the actually telling us this is something going to happen like yeah yeah I guess you know honestly my good I think it was just that they just weren't used to it right and typically when you don't when you don't develop a habit right like oh this is normal course of like action this is this is normal you know um this is transparency right in action right or collaboration and action. If you're not used to it, you kind of like wonder like, wait, is she supposed to be telling me this? I mean, is that, you know? Not her motives. And then I think the only other thing that I would say would be different would be the budgeting process is a little bit different in the sense of like in Massachusetts, and they're all federal funds, like grants or federal funds, right? But when you do budgeting processes, it's budget season, you do is you account for your grant funds, right? So you say, for example, okay, I'm, you know, let's say if I got a million dollars in grants, I'm going to budget 20% loss for it, because you never know it's very fluid what you get, right? But I want to earmark some money for what I'm going to use it for, you know, you let the board know and all that stuff. You don't, you obviously can't use it until the funds are, they come in usually in the summertime, they let you know what the allocations are, right? And you have to do the activities and they have to be approved. But that's not here in New Hampshire, typically the culture is I'm learning and where I am too, is typically they don't roll it into the the whole budgeting process, right? But that's that's money that we can utilize, right? And so it's more of like, okay, the money that we have now in in the summertime, what are we going to use it for? You know, it's almost like it's not pre-planning. It's how I deal with money when it comes in randomly. So if someone gives me $4,000, like let's spend it now because I don't know whenever we're going to have this money again, instead of like, oh no, like this money is going to come in eventually. So it's pre-planed for whatever we're going to use it for and have a place for it. And exactly what we did this year. Which seems like the right way to go about doing budgeting. It is, but you know, and I don't want to criticize what New Hampshire, because it's everyone's every, it's different. No, I won't, I won't, because I'm working in it, right? So I mean, it's just different everywhere, but I think it's almost Vermont though. So let's be, let's be fair. Like little 10 is almost Vermont. Oh gosh, I'm really close to Vermont. Yeah. I'm actually really, where I work is like, I think I'm 45 minutes away from the border of Canada, which is kind of cool too. Oh yeah, yeah. Little that like, could I drive there to work on their conveys? And I know I've gone there to learn Dartmouth. And I have to, the way you go is actually on the top side of Vermont. But yeah, I mean, everything's different, but the process seems like, yeah, it's just more like, I just want to, I like to mean more proactive than reactive. And so I like to just like, okay, you always have to have like a soft landing place in case, for example, that activity doesn't get approved or that money doesn't come in, right? You'd like, okay, let's make sure it's in the general budget. But we'd like to ear market for the grants, you know. Can you use it? Can you, can you use the process as kind of here in New Hampshire and kind of continue doing your, the what you're used to or is it just the way the structure? So for example, like, you have all the allocations in the plan and you say, well, this is what we're, this is what we plan to have. We don't have it yet. This is what we plan to have. So this is how I'm going to recommend the budget. And then we can assume that this is how it's going to be. Or they say, well, no, no, we have to wait and then respond. We can earmark the money. So we can say, for example, we can, you know, teleport, hey, listen, which is what we did, like, initially, when I was there, we'd like to earmark this money for X, Y, Z, let's say, positions or, you know, curriculum, right? We can't use that money not only because we don't have it yet, but because the government, the state won't give us the money until they approve the activity. So we can say, we really want to, you know, fund this position using Title I, you know, 60% Title I and like 40% Title II, right? We can say that, but we can't do anything about it until they approve the actual activity, but at least the board has a general idea of what we're, how we're spending our money, right? So your time here is short, seven, seven months, is that right? So have you seen data to see if your time here made a difference, has made a dent or even in, we'll call it, I don't know how to, I'm going to call it negative, I just don't, that's because I don't know, in that situation that occurred, do we see positivity coming from it? So like, anytime, I gotta use youth or drama, anytime something happens that we would, I'll give you the best example, my aunt had a back injury, she had surgery. And that happening was her daughter came up to help her out, which they're not technically estranged, but they're relationships a little stronger. So I have this opportunity to talk to my, my cousin about something I haven't, I've never talked to her probably ever because of the situation. So we see this negative thing, but we see this positive result. And especially with us Christians, we're kind of always like, everything is going to work out for good. And so you just be patient, even if some negative thing happens, you can look forward to, so do you see something in the data or something in your time here that you say, well, this is kind of the good or the results that came out of it? Yeah, and you know, I'll preface this by saying, when you take, it takes years, right, multiple years, to go from a low performing district to a high performing district. And um, but yeah, the data was embargoed up until yesterday. So, you know, even though I had seen the data, I've seen the data where I am now, I've seen that, you know, as a supermarket, you can see data everywhere. But it was embargoed up until yesterday. So I can share some of the data from Rochester academic data and then some of the suspension data. But I know that, for example, district-wide ELA scores went up three points, math scores went up five points, these are percentage points, and then science went up four points. And that's the SAS data, which is what school districts are held accountable to. And I think the really big takeaway, which is really the one I focused on during my term as superintendent, because when you face a crisis on multiple fronts, you've got it, you can't do, it's so tempting to just say, I'm going to fix everything, right? You can't do that. You got to pick one leverage point, one point that really touches upon each of the things that can potentially, right, improve, right? And so the one I chose was like, okay, discipline, we've got lots of kids outside of school. How are they going to learn if they're not in school, right? That was the one leverage point that I chose to make sure that we were in compliance and all that stuff. And that's the data that-- Is that like absentee or suspensions or both? It was both. So we had chronic absentees, but it could have been a byproduct of the suspensions, right? And then we had the suspensions, out of school suspensions now. You think some of the situation with COVID and people being able to be like, oh, my kid can be home and learn kind of comes over to the, what, 2024 kind of mark where people's-- I don't know across the board. So I don't know how the state reacted or-- or if that was kind of just like, over a slow response to what it had, but shut down everybody's home, parents are home, people are parents are used to seeing their kids, now parents even off of spaces starting to be like, we have more at home type work where people can work from home because it's cheaper than keeping the lights on in the office. So you have all this, this kind of unintensive consequences from a shutdown that expands for, I think, two school cycles. I don't know how it's homeschooled. They are always in shutdown. And then we have this opening and like you said, it takes a long time to recover for something like that. But now, not only at this point when you said this area had the highest suspension rate, but now you have parents who are also like, we don't have to go to school every day, I mean, or all the time or whatever. And that's kind of just like an unintended consequence of that kind of situation. Or is it just kind of something that's always been, or for a long time, has been a situation here in our town? I think it's a combination of things, right? You have disengaged families, right? There's no potential collaboration with school to school to family, right? You've got to have that through line and make sure you're communicating with families. I think, you know, and there's, this is not, this is no secret because of the data, right? So we were engaging in just some past practices, right? In Rochester. And so I think when you don't have a strong partnership with families, when you don't engage with our youth in meaningful ways where children want to come to school, right? They're excited about school. And that's through like surveys like, hey, what interest you in school? What kind of clubs do you want to be a part of? Like, you know, you know, really, really pushing them to, including them really in the decision making, you know? I think there's some of that, but to your point, some of COVID, I'm sure that's still a little bit lingering, you know? It's a little bit of a residual of that going on. But I think that the strongest, what I'm seeing from the data when I look at the data from last year, this year, is that our Rochester suspensions rate went down substantially from 2024 to 2025. And it's really, and it shows that it's a clear system-wide improvement in school climate. So you have more children in school learning, right? Rather than, you know, having them outside of school because, you know, they were not, or, you know, they were mischievous. What do you think contributed to the high suspension rate? Is it, is it just the, the lack of staff ability to handle somebody's problematic behaviors? Is it just, this is how we handle the situation? Is it systemic? Is it something that, again, parents are involvement? Is it, we don't know, my opinion, is that we don't know how to handle discipline. So our knee jerk reality, is to go to this extreme 'cause it's easiest. I'll just say out of mind to spend it, I can keep going over my business. - All of the above, Michael, let me tell you why. You know, you've gotta take care of your staff. You've gotta give them the tools they need, right? To address those behaviors. Because, you know, we didn't go to school to beat teachers. We went to school to teach curriculum, right? To develop lesson plans and these really interactive activities to make sure we were engaging children, right? We didn't go to school to deal with like, potentially like, dysregulate, you know, children that are escalated, right? Are not able to regulate their bodies, right? Are choosing to use their hands instead of their words, right? And so, it's really our job as leaders to equip our staff with the tools that they need, but they can't do it alone. You know, they need resources. You know, and so that's part of it. The other part is, sometimes you only know what you know. And so, in Rochester in particular, and this is not a secret to anyone, you know, it was super intent, it was always hired from within, right? And so, oftentimes, not all the time. You know, oftentimes when that occurs, you engage in past practice. You may not be kept abreast of the new laws that are coming out when it comes to discipline, right? So, we, in 2022, we had graduated sanctions for discipline, right? We weren't engaging in those practices in Rochester, right? No, it's no fault of anyone. It was just because we were engaging in what we knew. - I'm really looking for you to point the finger. - I want to point the finger. I just hate that. - No, it's the idea that there's a, there's a lot of contributing factors sort of thing. And like you said about, when you have a problematic community that has a lot of issues, you've got to try and focus on one thing. And the same thing with Suspended, if you can make kids want to be in school. - Exactly. - That will reduce any of, you know, for the ones that don't have ELAs, what is the term for a student that needs special, there's an acronym for it that needs like written by law, a special education. - Oh, a special education? - Yeah, well, it's like, they're like learning very frequently for kids on the spectrum. It's like, you have this. - Oh, especially a design instruction? - Yeah, what's, there's an acronym for it though, isn't it? - A C-I. - Yeah, I think it might be it. But like, it's not like those, it's the others. The other kids that don't have any of those setbacks or any of those issues that aren't for social issues. - For you for that, Micah. So, you are absolutely right, right? So like, you know, I've been at teachers, so I know, you know, they taught. So a lot of times, you know, when people feel, like the community feels, like, why are we focusing so much on the children that, you know, are not, are mysterious? Or, you know, that require accommodations, you know, federally, right there, they were mandated, right? You know, why are we focusing on the children that are making the right decisions or that are, you know, doing the right thing, right? And so, that's why, you know, last year we had to, you know, what we should make sure that we have a mechanism in place, right? So if I'm a teacher and I've got 20 kids in my class and I have a child who was escalated and I can see that they're going to be escalated and they need to, you know, some time away from the class, that's why we have someone, right? Like, we call them a culture and climate specialist. Like, come in and say, let me take, you know, little Joey, let me take him out for a walk. Let me take him to the wellness, you know, room, which is housed with somebody who was skilled on how to strengthen social, emotional skills. Like, for example, you're five years old, you're 60 years old, you're seven years old. You might have had a traumatic experience in life, right? So that, that manifests itself in behaviors, right? So if you can help little Joey, right? Say, hey, listen, when you feel your body getting that way, when you feel like you're getting, like, you're gonna blow up, I need you to come see me. And let's have that chat, because that then creates self-awareness, then you give them coping strategies on how to regulate the body so that they can remain in class. But see, what happens is that when you remove that student temporarily to give them what they need at that moment, right? The teacher can continue teaching, right? And so that was the one thing that we were trying to implement in Rochester, because that was the, one thing that I had identified as a need. Like, we want to make sure that we don't, you know, our teachers are frustrated, right? They want to be able to, like, you know, they want scores to go up. They want to do right by kids, you know? And teachers are so critical of themselves, right? They're very reflective educators, right? I treat them very, so they want to make sure that they have the tool, again, the tools that they need to be able to be successful and help children thrive. - Right, and too many parents are treating the school like an opportunity for daycare or childcare, but instead of saying, this is where my kid is going to get the education that they need to be a citizen or human in the real world. Right. When did you feel things were going south with the board? - We get to shift the whole conversation. - No, I was like, well, I'll be. - I can't really love you. - I'm potentially negative. Yeah. - You know, I, I remember telling my professional coach, my doctor, Ken Fechler, I'm like, "Wow, I feel like I'm still in my honeymoon stage." You know, it's typically a support and it's like a, and he would tell me, Annie, usually a support and a honeymoon stage is like a month, maybe two, right? But I was like, wow, I was like, we're well into the fall. Like, I'm feeling good. And again, it was because I had these board, you know, newsletters, I would send out every Friday. They were very all-encompassing of so many different things, just to keep them a rise. - Is there access to those? - Well, that's, well, I believe that's right to know. Yeah. - I don't have any idea. Yeah, just wondering if someone wanted to see what you were telling the board. - Yeah. - Recently, throughout that would keep anybody from being like, well, anybody was blindsided by a certain chance. Like, this is a common ongoing weekly update, you know, that they're getting. Nobody was like, "Oh, something's coming up." - Oh, no, oh my God. And I remember, I remember Matt Bolier, who's one of the board members now, he would be like, "Annie, 'cause they were really lengthy, you know what I mean?" Like, they really were. They were, each division, so I had like, okay, an update on HR, an update on teaching and learning, an update on finance, an update on operation. Then I had a culture of collaboration. What am I doing to do that? A culture of continuous learning and approval. How am I doing that? - Do you have your representative right? Those updates? - No, so I would, I would touch base with them and then I would write them myself. Sometimes I would be like, "Oh, I don't know this." And then I would send to the document and I'd be like, "Can you just plug in that number "that I need that data point or whatever, you know?" But I remember Matt Bolier was like, those are long Annie, he would tell me. He was like, "I need more bullet points." And I get it, 'cause they were, but for me, it's like, I'd rather overcommunicate and undercommunicate, 'cause I just, that's the one thing I learned from, I've had great mentors in life, Micah. And they were like, just make sure you're always keeping your board informed. - Right. - Do not blindside them. And so when you say, "When did I know?" I mean, you know, when things didn't, you know, the whole discipline issue in the police department and it was truly, really, really trying to navigate that collaboratively with the different stakeholders. - I think I felt something wasn't right, right? When I'm trying to get the district in compliance and I'm getting some pushback, but not to the extent of like, you're pretty much done here, Annie. You know, I was just like, okay, I had a way to navigate this, right? Because the position I'm super intimate, Micah, it's a very political position, right? And so you have to make sure that you're like, okay, I don't have a political agenda. Like I lead very non-partisan, right? I'm all about kids, but I also recognize that it's a very, very political position. And so how do I navigate this? Because you never want to be at odds with the police department, right? But I want to also make sure that I'm doing, every decision I make is in the best interest of children. - All right, I need to rewind just a bit on that. Can you, to the best variability, just explain to somebody who only saw a bullet point on Facebook, like what, what happened? Because for me, this is, I'm gonna give my idea. And this is a really show of ignorance. But this is probably a lot of people. That there is somebody, there was somebody on the board that was apparently involved in the police department, and then there were some school discipline actions that you disagreed with that was happening with a student that got involved with the police department criminalizing it. And instead of criminalizing it, you said, well, we don't need to do it that way. It needs to be more, we need to be more understanding of the children's situations, and there might be a conflict of interest between the police department and the schools. And that's, again, I could be completely wrong. That's just my brain thinking, this is as much as I know about what happened. So can you, to the best variability, just be like, this is kind of what went on, and this is why it kind of came to this. I can't talk a lot about it because there's a settlement agreement. - Sure. - When I can tell, when I can talk about broadly. - How right was I? - Oh, I-- - On a scale of one to 10. - No, no, no, no, I can't even, I can't even do that. - Ding! (laughs) - When I can tell you broadly is, there are laws in police. The students have rights. There are state laws, and there are federal laws when it comes to discipline. Federal laws, Trump state laws, right? And I think what might have been occurring in the past, like before I arrived, right? Was that they, you know, the district was really following state law with fidelity. - Right. - And again, we only know what we know, right? And so I come in and I'm like, okay, yes, state law, these are the graduated sanctions that were held [BLANK_AUDIO] to we have to make sure that there's progressive discipline and that's in the law that's even a board policy right and then there's the other piece which is the federal law right so like that's like students with disabilities have a different set of rights right and so for example and I know lots of people that don't know about education don't really understand about like manifestations of stuff like that but when a child is you know there's being naughty right and and has an individualized educational plan I.e.p. that was what I was looking for. I'm trying to stay away from the acronyms because a lot of people may you know may not know if you're not educated so I with that's all I know so I.e.p. is the only acronym that I'm completely aware of because I coach the middle school so there are kids on my team with I.e.p.s and they're like well he has an I.e.p. for this and I always tell him it doesn't matter like if you know I I'll treat him like everybody else and if there's nobody here is going to it's going he's going to be good he's going to be great and if you have anything particular like if he's feeling down himself or has just let me know and I'll make sure we encourage him that way and for the last three well two seasons this season's coming up it's been great so I.e.p. sorry so for that when they you know the the IDA which is individual disability is education act right they tell you okay listen when that child right who's on an I.e.p. is reaching 10 or has reached 10 days you've got to hold a manifestation meeting and that basically is just a meeting with some stakeholders around the table saying okay is this child behaving you know is is it is in a manifestation of his disability right is that the reason why you know he's he's just making these these decisions that may not be responsible right and so but the only people are the only the only I can't say when to hold a manifestation meeting right only the IDA can say when to hold a manifestation meeting right the individual's disability is education right so somebody can't come in and say oh I want to hold a manifestation meeting two days right like no we got to like follow we got to follow the federal law right so that's so that's you know so that again but I'm not placing blame on anyone because you only know what you know right so I come in and I want to make sure that we're in compliance because for me being in compliance is is the bare minimum it's not the ceiling to growth it's the bare minimum right and so for me so so when you say like what was you know when did I know that things were going south with the board or you know what what can you talk about you know why you were you know on leave I can talk very broadly and say like change is hard right I was trying to put things in compliance right you know I just talked to you about the four phases of change right we were we were reaching that resistance warfare of like you know Amy's moving my cheese right you know and we've got you know and so and that's hard and so that's pretty much the except that I can talk about that okay I wonder if I can try and word a question that makes it clarifying without what is there to lose do you think about getting things to comply what is what is what is lost in getting things up to compliance to to cause resistance right so you say you say you know like for example you do plumbing inspections and they want to make sure that you have insulation coming out of concrete right just everything in order to pass it you have to put this foam insulation outside of your pipe doesn't make any sense there's no rhyme or reason behind it it just costs more it's extra and they're going to fail you they didn't give you an answer to why you wanted to do it so guys do it but there's no rhyme or reason behind it and it's like well what if we don't comply and what if we just take care of it and you know stop doing this thing what's lost by you know you're you're doing it what's what's lost by doing what you have to spend more time effort energy making sure that this stupid thing is done so we get an inspection by people who don't know anything about the situation do what do you think could be lost by not being by continuing practices and kind of moving back to compliance well part of a superintendent's job is to protect the district from liability right so I I see it there's so many different things I have so many lenses for right because the lens of like student centered I want to do right by kids right and I want to protect the district from liability right right so for me it was like sounding alarms like oh my gosh not only you know are we like you know I'm not I got to protect the district really but we got to be in compliance right that's the first thing and obviously what we want to do right by kids so it's really two things right why a district and you know a lot of districts will you know we'll push back on change right so this is not like I often say it's just a different zip code my my go right why wouldn't a district want to be in compliance I mean you know you stuck in your old ways you know that that's certainly a reason I think a lot of districts that have high suspension rates sometimes it's like you know what we're going to teach the kid a lesson we're going to send them out for 10 days you send them out for 10 days it's probably what they want it right right and so that's a political advantage to maybe holding on to some compliance control influence and I and the other thing is I'm not saying you're speculating it's speculating yeah yeah this conversation yeah yeah for sure and I'm not saying that it's just thing like if a child makes a mistake you gotta it's got something yeah you've got to have a consequence right but you also have to like show you've got to teach a new behavior right you got to teach a new behavior you got to teach you know um because otherwise you're going to have recidivism right if you don't teach them a new behavior a new way of doing things so that they can make a more responsible decision moving forward you're just going to have the same behaviors again also there is a treating each student in case as an individual student in case when you when you try to do anything broad brush you get and just you get lack of justice because each case and situation and individual is different and so having certain things in place to make that that discipline whatever it is personalized you know for for just in I have four kids students if you will in the way I would discipline my oldest who's 18 so I don't lay this quite a much anymore is very different from how I handle my son who a stern word and a correction is easy for her her punishment she'd rather she'd rather beatings which we don't do but beatings then a lecture and I'm you could tell I talk a lot so lecturing is what she gets so each situation deserves some sort of thought and if you just kind of ten days broad strokes suspension that becomes lazy but also becomes ineffective and then you have high rates of suspension exactly yeah exactly um walk us through that night when the board said that you were going to be put on paid leave so I let's see I was going I had the board meeting I was going through the board meeting this is all public because obviously it was it was tell guys uh someone called a recess and um and I can talk about this because it's uh it's about my personal matter so and I remember sitting in the back of the room with Shane and with Karen and they brought me in and you know they just said hey listen uh you know this is the situation and um and I was like okay and I remember I was a little stoic um and so Shane said you know if you want you can lead through the back door I'm like I'm not leaving to the back door I'm leaving for the front door and in fact I'm finishing the meeting because for me I knew that I I'm just I've got so much integrity yeah and I've always said that if there's one thing I want to be remembered for as an educator as a leader is my integrity right and so I said and so I remember Karen saying you can finish the meeting I'm like I can finish the meeting right I finished the meeting and I walked out through the front door so they they they told you why at that time though we didn't know no no no at that point no they just said no no you're going to be on this this situation yeah and you finished the meeting and not knowing why no not knowing I for me it was like and I didn't ask no I didn't ask would you have if looking back I might have been a little bit in shock to be honest right I've never been leaving my life right so um I think at that point I I didn't ask because of the shock right there was some shock you know um and and I guess the part of me was like I do remember saying like in my internally being like okay I know I didn't do anything wrong but you know like you know like you don't sort it out of your couple days today yeah whatever and so um that yeah that's but then I went home and then of course you start reflecting right like what did I do right exactly yeah yeah so what's interesting too is I had an impeccable military career um you know I wasn't the best marine so I didn't have a good pft score I wasn't very good at a lot of things um and I got suddenly got investigated and I had no idea why um and it turned out there's for something like hazing which to my other marines who had ever worked with me when I told them the hand begins to investigate they thought it's a complete joke because like no seriously something happened I'm getting investigated for hazing and um the same thing you know nobody told me exactly what the thing was and even in in my even in the interview because when the military does things they have a third party they have some of them a different unit come and they're asking me questions and you're just like I have no idea why I'm being and you run through it, like, did I do something? - Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. - Did I say something as a joke, 'cause in the Marine Corps, you do say joke, sometimes that may have offended somebody, did I do something, and it's like, then you're racked, it came back to me, nothing, and I got on the board that deployment, so. (laughs) But, so, when you, that night, you walked out the front door, you went home, you reflected, did you come to any type of conclusions, you're just like, they'll iron it out, they'll figure it out. - I went home and, you know, I was just like, "Okay, what's going on here?" You know, I actually reached out to my coach. - Oh good, 'cause I was asked for my next question, "Do you have somebody to kind of support?" 'Cause I didn't either, I had a very small unit, my officer couldn't talk about a lot of things, so I didn't have somebody, I didn't wanna stress my wife out, like, call her up, so I didn't know who, I was like, "Well, I guess I'm just gonna duck my head down and great, so you'd have some support to talk to me." - Yeah, so I, and he was just like, just wait, just wait it out, it's fine. You didn't know anything wrong. I mean, it'll all sort out, it's like, you know. And, and, you know, then the next four months, I've never been able to work that long. Yeah, it was rough, I mean, it was rough because it was, you know, I think the thing is that I'm in New Hampshire, but I always say, I came to New Hampshire with a backpack on my back, I didn't have any friends, I, you know, I just came here, I've bought all my family's in Florida in California. So for me, it was like, I was here all by my own, so I couldn't talk to anybody, right? So I couldn't talk to staff, I couldn't talk to, you know, families, right? So, I really was like, I feel like I was back in COVID. - Yeah, I couldn't pose a door real quick. - Yeah, of course. - I have a church cleaning people are, well, members are coming, they're trying to back them on. I don't know how they did this. So four months, not knowing the result of the conversation and they're, you're getting paid at this time too. - Yes, I'm getting paid, it was paid, I didn't leave. - I'm just think that's a little problematic for you not to be doing the job you're supposed to be doing and getting paid and repaying for that. - I hated it because, I hated it because I'm, and everyone at the school district knows, even the same board member person, you know, I'm like a workaholic. I love, and the reason why is because I love the work that I facilitate, right? So for me, to be out of work, I was going stir crazy because I love to work, right? - We allowed to try and look for other things, do other things. - No, I mean, I tried to, like, you know, I was like, can I do this? I was like, you know, at the beginning I was like, can I do this, can I do that from home? Like, 'cause I wanted to help my team out. Like, my team was a new team, you know? I wanted to see what I could do to help, you know, while I was, I don't want to just like, collect that page, I can do nothing, you know? But the answer was no, and I understand that, you know. - That's like it easier. - No, it doesn't. - Just 'cause you know that you understand it doesn't make the situation sitting and knowing that things are happening that you could be, especially if you're passionate, right? Like, I could be doing my job right now. And again, when I was under investigation, I had to change jobs, not change jobs. I had to change what I was doing, which actually loved better than what I was doing the first time. But it's not under a stigma of like, it's not under the idea of like, okay, I'm changing because they want me here. I'm changing 'cause they're investigating something and checking something out. And four months is a long time. - Four months, and you know what the silver lining of those four months is, you know, I grew up Catholic all my life went to church every Sunday. And then, you know, life gets in the way. You can make ton of excuses of why you like kind of walk away from that. But I was like, I just, I got my faith back. And it was like amazing. I was like, I used those four months to really like, you know, and I'm gonna get all religious now. But-- - If you're in a church, you're not in a church now. - I'm in the best place here. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm in the best place, but I feel like-- - I try and steer some of these conversations that direction it doesn't know. - Oh, we can totally steer that way. I, you know, I think God sometimes kind of lets you know, you still need me. - Yeah, for sure. - Don't forget, you still need me. Most of the time, it's through problems-- - Exactly. - That he brings, I mean, why are all these things, I tell believers who have stepped away, that your life is gonna be harder than other people's, because the people who are lost, they don't know. But you kind of deep down kind of know, 'cause you stepped away and God's gonna be like, well, some tragedy's gonna happen. Especially the people who still claim it. But don't, I practice it, some tragedy's gonna happen. You're gonna look around, you're gonna realize, yeah. - Yeah. - So that was nice because I got closer to God during that time. - Good, good. - So that was a severed line. - When did you know it was over? Like, hey, you know, I'm not, wait, did you resign? Did they let you go, like, I don't even know how that happened? - Yeah, we just part, wait, you know, I think there's really no coming back from that, right? When you go sideways with the board, you know, and I remember my coach saying that, there's really no coming back from that, right? Great advice, again, I've had some great mentors in life. It's like, the community can love you, the staff can love you, the youth can love you, if the board doesn't like you, you're out. - Right. - Now, if it's the opposite, right? If you like, the board loves you, but the staff hate you and the community hate you, and the kids, you're staying, you're staying. So, that's what I kinda need, like, you know what? Even if they brought me back, Micah, how do you come back from that, right? - Yeah, well, I don't know. You know, like, so, like, if we came, if I came back, how do you come back from that? So, it was just better for us to just apart ways. - When did you know that time has come? - I think it was in June. - Yeah? - Yeah. - Was there a thing that was like, okay, what were we done here? - Well, you know, yeah, I turned to, like, settlement negotiation and stuff like that. Yeah, definitely. I mean, did I know before that? No, I mean, I'm such an, I'm like, the eternal optimist. I'm like, I'm gonna come back. Things are gonna be great, you know? I'm gonna make amends with my poor chair. It's gonna be fun. 'Cause for me, I'm the type of person that I don't hold grudges. Like, I'm like, you know what? We all make mistakes, right? We're gonna come back and we're gonna just do right by kids. We're gonna just, like, you know, we're gonna be, and-- - We're all focused on the same goal. - Yes, yes. And then it was like in June, like, pretty much, like, right there where we entered, I was like, okay, well, you know what, Annie, it's best. It's, you know, it's just best to part ways. - Yeah, do you miss, or do you have a different job now, which will pop up a little bit, but do you miss what you were getting ready to build here at all or the potential? - Well-- - Forget about the board. I'm talking about the job. - Yeah, no, yeah, sure, yeah. Well, what I think when I saw the data yesterday, I said, damn, I'm gonna church, I should not have said that word, I'm sorry. - That's fine. (laughs) - We were making strides. - I have a thing on my board, do you see that behind you? Write that little thing. (laughs) So I, from the pulpit, I said something about being a turd and it made my wife frustrated. Can't say that, that's also all right, great. I didn't have another word for what I was trying to say. And that person I was calling out probably the biblical character was that. I'm just like, we can't. And so now I have people constantly bringing it up. And so, don't be a turd today is what the thing says. Anyway, so don't worry about, yeah. Yeah, seeing the results. - Yeah, seeing the results, I was like, you know, we had momentum, my God. Right, there was momentum that I had like, just an amazing cabinet team. We were, we were going places. And then it was like, just like, the rug was just like slipping there. - Do you think that, although you're not there, the things that you were really pushing for, specifically, what the problem was, is going to be handled just not with you. Or are we going to keep the same practices? - Oh, I don't know. I mean, I would hope not, right? I mean, I hope is. So my thought is thinking of human nature, we screwed up, but we don't want to admit we screwed up. So instead of admitting we screwed up, we'll just double down and quietly, we'll just continue to implement what we're supposed to be implementing and just put it under a new name. And that's kind of what I, sadly hope happens because I'd rather, though it would be nice to keep the same face for longer than a few months. I don't think we've had a long term superintendent here. - I think Mr. Repugie was here for five years. - I don't know. - He was the one before me. - Okay, good. - Or maybe he was the last veteran. - Okay, we're going to shift a little bit. So I'm seeing a lot of different posts. And comments about this 1.3 million shortfall and what happened and why it happened. I think sometimes because you're not here, it makes it easy to be like, it's because something they did or messed or-- - Blame it on the girl. - Blame it on the person who's not here. (laughing) Or some people are just saying it's part of the tax assessment. And you know, you have certain times to send certain data points in. And it was just put in late or not done. So some speculation on something wrong. And that you, wait, is there some sort of speculation that you did something wrong that you caused the 1.3 million shortfall? - Yeah. So state adequacy aid is comprised of a number of factors. So it's green reduced, it's English language. with learners, it's students with disabilities. It is not homeless students. It's also about a property valuations, okay, which goes under the acronym SWATS and don't even ask me with that stands for because I don't know, but, so, and again, I can share this because the data is no longer embargoed, but when you look at the English language learners from last year to this year, last year we had 101 this year, 102. So, a difference of one. Okay. Yeah. I'm dyslexic, so I'm trying to find it. Oh, sorry. Special education. It was roughly the same. It don't have exact numbers, roughly the same. Free and reduced. Actually, about the same, I think, so not much fluctuation also last year this year, right? And so, and again, I'm not an expert. I'm just speculating when I see the data, right, because data, data talks. Right. So, you don't have a change in English language learners. You don't have a change in your special education population. You might have a slight change, slight change in free and reduced lunch. So, then the only thing that it points to is that you had a proper, proper evaluation that didn't really hit the books until the end of, of the school year. And, and that's a factor in state adequacy. Right. I mean, that's a fact. That's not my opinion. Right. Right. And so, when I look at it, and I only saw it because, you know, all superintendents get this email from the state saying, it was a really long email. And it's, this is public information, by the way. This is like, share this seven page email. Is that why? Oh, right. It's a long email that we got yesterday from the state. And it tells you how state adequacy eight and it, it, it, uh, attachments comparison of FY 26 and FY 27, which is last year and this year. And it's right there in that email. Property evaluation is a huge factor in how state adequacy eight is factored. And so, my, and I'm, don't know, for sure. I can tell you with certainty, with absolute certainty, I can tell you, it is not the coding of English language learners because it was the same number as last year. It was, it's not special education student. And homeless students is not part of this. So, um, it could be a slight, um, increase of the free and reduced, but you're talking maybe, um, I don't know, maybe under a hundred thousand dollars difference. If that, and then again, um, did they have anything to do with getting numbers in on time or getting that stuff submitted or requesting any of that or? No, so they have a couple of, um, polls that are the state from the, um, student information database. They pull, um, in October, which is how they get the, uh, projection, the state adequacy projections in November to all of us, right? And then there's like the end of the year poll, which I was not there for, but I'll just say that it seems pretty standard stuff. It's very, it seems like something that seems to baseline, easiest thing part of your job to make sure that numbers are, it doesn't seem like in our conversation, it's something that would be overlooked by anything that, yeah, my god, it is so much, it's so much easier to blame it on the girl that left. Sure. Right? And, and you know what, that's okay because for me, that's just speculation, but when you've got the hard data, right? That, that shows like, actually, it's not really that at all. You know, um, so I am, uh, surprisingly, uh, despite the marine and hard edge, very sensitive to criticism. I was time my wife because I had posted these in people and we had done a food drive during the, um, the election where we had the bins and there were people who, who told us we couldn't, and I think I, people have disagreed, but I think we handled it all right. It just moved the bin here, told people where we go, um, mentioned who said we couldn't do it. Um, and it was mostly for informative, not necessarily called people out and maybe deep down inside it wanted to like, Hey, these people said it. But, um, and the, the people who criticize even that for me and like, I, like, I, one, the things I don't like are people questioning my motive, right? To people speculating on why I would do something and getting it way wrong. And two, just generally, I prefer people not to criticize me, which is weird, but I take it super personally. Um, which again is weird, but I also have anxiety, fear, failure in a bunch of other things from Marine Corps. So I think even if I don't know somebody, I feel the need to defend myself. So that's what I did. I spent a lot of time after the, I can't believe there's a food collection been controversy. But after that, defending why I went throughout, I did, I, I agree with people, yes, I should have informed people, but it was a very unique situation. I didn't know who to inform, checked with the state, said, it's fine. How are you with, have you seen some of the comments, people about you on Facebook? How are you with handling those? Do you just ignore them? Do you get rid of your Facebook all together? Do you just how do you handle all that? So, I, I have to admit, I might like look at them every so often. Yeah. I don't, I don't engage publicly. I never have actually engaged publicly on a public Facebook page. Um, that I can recall. Hopefully I remember wrong. But, um, I, I find out, you know, I've got, as you know, I've got a lot of support in the community. I do find some of them comical, like, I know they're, they're, and I don't know who, I'm not even naming me, so I don't know who it is. But like, one's like, she hired all of her friends. She, she brought all, I'm like, I didn't have friends when I moved to New Hampshire. I didn't know anybody. So, that's a funny one. You fired, you hired people and they became your friends and that's not the same thing. That's not the same thing. Yeah. And, um, the other thing that I, um, there, the other thing that I hear a lot about it, she's, she's still, and I'm paraphrasing me. Yeah. She stole stuff that she didn't, or she didn't do stuff in Worcester. She's stealing the stuff that they didn't Worcester, and she's bringing it to Rochester. I'm like, well, first of all, that's the thing in Belinda Worcester, because that's belongs to the education field, right? So these are like evidence-based, research-based, you know, strategies and, you can't steal ideas. You can't, and these are like, these are things that need qualitative and quantitative data and peer reviews, and then they, they make sure that it's actually successful, right? So, um, these are the things that kind of make me laugh. What? This is why I hate one reason why I hate Facebook and why I hate. People wanted debate to get involved with me, and I'm like, I'd rather sit and talk to you, because what you just said was, um, was, was stupid. The idea that it's even problematic that you take good ideas and apply them to your job, to say, well, that's somebody else's idea. And so, what do I need to cite that I got this idea from Usher before I implement this idea that's very good, or even defend a decision like you just said. It's peer-reviewed, it's checked, and we got data points for it. That's why we're implementing it. And unfortunately, this could have been implemented before I showed up. I didn't have to come from Usher. It could have come from any place. In the end, in the end, I saw just recently, because after the court date, um, that I went to, um, was something about like, you know, the privacy, like, you know, something about, like, the fact that I don't want to see the report, or the, I don't, you know, the full 1000 pages. And I can share this because it was on open court. Yeah. And so, I'm like, I did work my right to privacy. Yeah. That's, yeah. I don't, I don't, why? I don't, yeah, because this is the thing. You know, have I seen the 27 page summary report? Yes. I've seen that. Um, do I need to see the 1000 pages of, like, interview notes and all that stuff? No, because that made a private viewing to know that, and I said this in open court, I didn't violate policies, right? Right. Right. So, I mean, I, I didn't do anything unethical, right? I didn't break any laws, right? And again, I said this in open court, so I can say this. Right. Um, I don't need to see 1000 pages, um, of potentially people who might have said, which is normal, um, you know, anyone might have been going a little too fast. She's making lots of changes. Okay. I probably was. Right. You know, and I'm not, and I've never claimed to be perfect, right? So I'm an imperfect leader, right? Right. So, or saying somebody saying, like, you know, she was, she was really hard on us. Yeah. You know what? I have really high standards for people. Yeah. I'm walking into, um, a crisis. Yeah. And, and I do have high standards, and I'm not going to apologize for that. Yeah. It feels like that something to be applauded when you're in a crisis, not something to be criticized. That somebody wants to change quickly, because we need to change quickly and you only have this finite amount of time. Anyways, the kid that graduates two years from now deserves to have the same quality of education of the kid will graduate five years from now. Right. And so if we can make that happen faster, I don't see why there'd be criticism of that. Or why you'd need to read that either. Yeah. Um, why are you fighting for the release for the report? I'm fighting for the release of the report, because, uh, those four months that I was here, and I'm going to get emotional, I got so much support from the community. I mean, like, I didn't have anybody here. Yeah. Nobody, no family. You know, I had friends that I couldn't talk to them, right? Right. Because they're my colleagues. And so my community, because I lived here, supported me. They backed me. And like, I'm doing this whole hard to leave for them because they need transparency. Oh, yeah. I already saw the report, Micah. I saw the report. Yeah. I don't need, I don't need all this stuff to be released, because I already know it, right? I saw it. We do. And by the way, I got a superintendent job. So I'm good, right? But I think that the community deserves, um, to know. Yeah. And they've waited long enough. And because those four months that I was, you know, trapped inside my house, because I couldn't even go outside into the house, Because it was kind of weird, right? Especially when nobody knew why I was out. The community backed me so much, and they supported me so much, that I feel like I will listen to them. Yeah. Yeah. You can't speculate. Do you feel like the release of the report will help these people who are supporting you feel vindicated for supporting you? Has that something you can answer to? Well, I can tell you that I've seen the 27-page summary, right? And I said this in open court so I can say it, right? I'm good with everything being released. Good. Now, do you know why the opposite, do you speculate why the opposition wouldn't be good with it? It's a reflect poorly potentially. You know, I don't know. I mean, there's like tons of reasons why, kind of swirling in my head as to why, you know. Like, really? Yeah, but I've been asking for this since May, right? This isn't like, I mean, I had to put it on the right to no request in September, because that, you know, but I've been fighting for this since May, and I tons of things swirl through my mind. But I'm not going to say them out loud because they would be like total speculation. Yeah. And that's not fair, right? No. But I can tell you that I am fine with it being released because you're not just fine with it. You're fighting together. I'm fine. Are you okay? Are people going to feel vindicated? Am I? And I just said it. Are people going to say like, I move too fast? They probably are. Yeah. Because I do move fast. Yeah. One of my mentors, like, and you remember, I know you like to move fast. When you're like turning around the corner and you look back and if no one's behind you, you're going to do fast, right? So like, I know that's one of my growth opportunities. And I'm sure that's going to come to light, right? Yeah. But I'm okay with that because what it's not going to come to light is that I engage in unlocal practice or that I broke policy. That's not going to come to light. You move too fast to get people on board with policy. That seems to me. Or maybe I was like, yeah, I did hold people accountable. That's my job though. Yeah, that seems crazy. Anyway, yeah. I would say, but some, an outsider being like, you move too fast, it's like, for what? Like what do you mean? Like what is, when you're in a crisis, what is too fast? It's like FEMA moves a little too quick to get that water to the people that need your water. That seems like a weird criticism to you. What's life like after Rochester and what are your plans now? So my current board has expressed that they would like me to stay on. And I think what I've learned from Rochester is, you know, they might be looking for, you know, a multi-year contract. And what I told my board chair, actually, I said, I think they came to agreement with, oh, for them, yeah, for the career, but for me, for me, like, you know, I know they want to accept my contract. But for me, when I spoke to my board chair, I let her know, I'm like, you know what? I just want a year-to-year contract, because, and I actually said this to her, and this happened like two months ago, it didn't even happen recently. So it's, it has no correlation to what happened recently, right? Two months ago, I'm like, because I think it's the fair thing to do with taxpayers, you know what? Because I don't want to go sideways with the board, because when that happens, you've got a part ways, right? Right. I think it's fair to have just a year-to-year contract. Things are going well. Great. Renew me, you know? I'm in a great place in life where I don't, I don't need this like, oh, give me a five-year deal or give me a 10-year. Like a football player? I'm good. Yeah. And, you know, I'd like to move back to Massachusetts. I do have to retire from Massachusetts. I'm not retired. So I know there's lots of speculation that I'm double-dipping. I'm not double-dipping. I'm not, I don't have a pension. But I think I want to go back to Massachusetts because they require you to do your last two years in order to get your pension from Massachusetts. So I can do a few more years here and then I'd need to head back to Massachusetts. And I'm looking forward to it. And then eventually retire in Florida. My daughter lives there. She's 26. Oh, cool. My whole family lives in my mom. A big fan of Tampa. I am really. I am not. I don't like Tampa. So my favorite cities are Boston, Savannah, Charleston, maybe Tampa would be number four. I just like-- Really? --the Cuba district down there, what is it, the title or net? I forgot what it was. Yeah. I love it. So I went to Cuba. I went to Cuba. I went to Tampa around the COVID time. And we were in Orlando, but we can't afford Orlando. So Tampa's there. And so that's what we did. I spent time in LA, I'm not a fan, I spent time in San Diego. It's OK. I'm an East Coast city guy. It's a city that hasn't visited yet. Yeah. It's up there. I like Jacksonville a lot too. What? I like Jacksonville for the zoo. That's so funny. Like Jacksonville for the zoo and St. Augustine. Oh, St. Oh, that's nice. So I kind of kind of combined them as the same place, even though they're not, but the Jacksonville zoo's one of favorite zoo. Yeah. That's why I'm up completely different things. I hate Miami. I've got to go back to Miami. I've never been. Oh, gosh, don't. Don't even bother. I don't like it. It's a hustle and bustle. And people, it's like survival of the fittest and it's like everyone's in a hurry. I can't-- but my daughter's there. She's eventually going to have a family there. I bet every car is in Florida. Everybody in New England goes to Florida. But the weather-- Any regrets? Any regrets? No. Let me tell you why. Because every decision I've made whether good or bad has led me to where I am today and I live where I am. Right. I do. It's weird because especially if you're looking at the religious element of rekindling that. It's like, how can you regret? Like, you know, I believe that God directs a lot of things and it's like, well, I brought you here. And so any regret-- any regret, I feel it's normally like a slight on something, you know, some of my biggest mistakes in my entire life led me to the opportunity to confront me on anxiety, confront my own issues, and then preach that to people and help them out. And you can't-- I don't have, like, I don't live like, like you'd say, with no regrets. But the perspective of, hey, you know, I would not do things differently because I would not be where I am now. Exactly. That's a healthy way to look at it. And the fact that you just said, like, in this-- this adversity brought me closer to God. Right. Like, I'm thankful, you know? Yeah. Well, I do, again, it's a long drive from little to little here. I do appreciate, you know, and again, I hope that people in Rochester appreciate, one, I don't get paid for this and you don't get paid for this, the opportunity because you didn't have to at all. There's no-- except for, obviously, like you said, the community support to come this way to do this and, you know, who am I? So you do-- I really appreciate your time and I'll let you get to your car where it's a little bit warmer. Oh, it's cold here. You can see me shivering. Yeah, yeah. Your hands are in your pockets all the time. Thank you very much. Thank you so much.