Ep 132 - Dr Myhill | FASTEST Way To Repair Gut Health (Without Probiotics)

Step one, no carbs, no sugars, is that right? Keep them as low as possible because the carnivore gut is a sterile gut. Modern foods are a disaster because they are high in carbohydrates, they are very addictive, we eat them in an addictive way. That is metabolic disaster. And it doesn't matter for what reason people come and see me with it's 'cause they've got headaches or asthma or arthritis, I always start off sorting the gut out. And sometimes that's all you have to do for things to drop into place. - Dr. Sarah Myhill, after 30 years of clinical practice, groundbreaking research and best selling books, she's here to spill her secrets. - I've got three favorite tools that I use. The first is vitamin C, highly protecting its heart disease, highly protecting its degeneration and so on. The second thing I love every we take is iodine. The average IQ of humans is currently falling and much of that can be attributed to iodine deficiency. And another multitasking tool which I'm exploring at the moment is it. And we are all deficient in it. - Milk kefir is helpful for the gut, is that true? - I doubt it. You are not going to change the microbiome by eating something. - Gut health is getting a lot of attention lately and for good reason. If you're dealing with thyroid issues, weight gain, brain fog or even fatigue, in 99% of cases, your gut is damaged. And most people will say, just take some fiber or take some probiotics. That will fix your gut, but that is not true. My guest today is Dr. Sarah Myhill. She's a functional naturopathic doctor with over 30 years of experience and she's an expert in fixing chronic disease and fixing the gut. And she'll share the fastest way to fix your gut and the best part is it won't cost you a thing. She'll also share a very cheap supplement that every man, woman and child needs to not only protect their gut, but actually fix gut issues. So Dr. Myhill, my first question, how many people do you think have gut issues without even knowing it? - Oh, I think is extremely common, simply because we are not eating a correct diet. That the human gut evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to eat actually a carnivore diet and then some vegetables came in later. It is, the human gut is much closer to a dog's gut or a cat's gut or a carnivore gut than any other gut. And modern foods are a disaster because they are high in carbohydrates, they're high in up to processed foods, they are very addictive, we eat them in an addictive way. And that overwhelms the ability of the gut to remain sterile because the carnivore gut is a sterile gut. And as soon as you start fermenting those foods in the upper gut, that is metabolic disaster. And the fact of matter is anybody eating a typical Western diet with bread and toaster breakfast, cereals, orange juice, all that sort of stuff will have abnormal gut function almost without exception. - Really, wow. So even all these healthy foods, like you mentioned the orange juice, you mentioned a whole grain bread or bread. So I wanted to ask, what are these so-called healthy foods are the worst foods that people are eating every single day, they don't even know it, but it's secretly destroying their gut. What are those foods? - They basically the high carbohydrate containing foods, the high sugar foods. And yes, we're told fruit is healthy for us. Yes, but remember primitive man's, primitive woman's idea of fruit would be in a crab battle. You'd have a couple and that would be it, you'd have a sore gut you had, you know, five or six. And the awful thing is the fruit grows themselves and know that humans are sugar addicts. And so they're developing varieties of fruit. It's a sweeter and sweeter and sweeter. So when I was a child, you know, the big treat for breakfast on Christmas day was a grapefruit, but it was so sour, you know, you could hardly eat it, but you pretended you were really enjoying it. And nowadays, you know, you can eat a grapefruit like an orange, it's a sweet as anything. And many fruits have been in a bread and maybe to be sweeter and sweeter. And then of course, when you crush them, when you squeeze the juice out of them, that's even more concentrated sugar. So, you know, a liter of orange juice contains, you know, contains about 16 or 17 oranges. Well, even greedy meat can't eat 16 or 17 oranges at one sitting, but you could easily drink a liter of orange juice and many do. So you feel the gut with sugar and it's worse than that because when you eat fruit, fruit is airbag of sugar, but the outside of the fruit will be covered with yeast. And that's how we make cider. That's how we make wine. And if you ease a lot of apples or lots of grapes or lots of pretty much any fruit, plums, you know, they overwhelm the ability of the gut to remain sterile and they start to ferment. It's called the auto brewery syndrome and yeast will ferment sugar to guess what? To alcohol. In fact, in the early days, I was getting interested in this. We used to be able to get a test on that biolab to demonstrate this. And I would measure levels of sugar and alcohol in the bloodstream. You would then have a sugar load 50 grams, which is typical of diabetic glucose tolerance test, for example. And then half an hour later, measure the sugar and the alcohol again. The highest result I saw was 19 milligrams per liter. Now, the drunk driving I believe in this is about, is it about 30 milligrams at the moment, I think? You're not far off with drunk driving level. It's a serious amount of alcohol and that all has to be detoxified by the liver. You know, it may give you make for a foggy brain. And even I know, after glass of wine, I can't function with a foggy brain. So it's modern diets that are responsible for the mess that are guts at the moment. For yes, reasons of upper fermenting gut. Also because we get an abnormal microbiome with that and 30 for reasons of allergy. And allergy drives many gut symptoms. So my view is that anybody eating a modern Western diet will have gut problems, whether they know it or not. - Absolutely. You did mention the fruit, which is a big problem. And I think a lot of people think that fruit is healthy. I do see in the comments that if I eat apples, bananas, and cherries and all these different things, I feel fine and I don't have any problems. But as you're saying that these fruits and these sugars can exacerbate into problems through the fermentation in the gut. And if you have all these sugars, they can cause a lot of inflammation. I do want to center on other foods as well. Interestingly, oatmeal is another food that is not healthy for you. Why? - It's very high carb. It really is as simple as that. So no, I wouldn't recommend that. I mean, again, there was even problems with dairy products. And when the great advocate of paleochistgenic darts, Gordon Lorraine was asked, are dairy products not natural foods? His reaction was, have you ever tried milking a wild bison? So whilst dairy products may have been with us for some thousands of years, because man is intelligent, is clever, and learns to domesticate animals, it takes much, much longer than that for evolution to catch up with those sort of changes. So as I say, we evolved over hundreds of thousands, probably millions of years with a carnivore stone age paleo diet. But the darts have changed so fast in such a short time, the gut simply hasn't caught up and will never catch up in our lifetime, and will never catch up in hundreds of years. So we need to get the best of the old world and the best of the new world. So the best of the old world means we should be eating a paleochistgenic diet. And the best of the new world is, I want security. I don't want to try coming over the hill tomorrow, and murdering me and all my family. I don't want to be cold in the winter. I don't want to be starving in the winter. I want food security. So as I say, we are in a perfect place to have the best of both worlds, the food security, the physical security, the warmth security. But we need to choose our foods very wisely. And if you have a face with a difficult choice, always ask what would primitive women have eaten, you know, half a million years ago? And that will give you a very good clue. Absolutely. I think people are very confused around what is healthy, and that's why I wanted to ask you those foods. So oatmeal and fruit and other foods that we're going to talk about a little bit later. And we're also going to talk about how to fix your gut health and fix the microbiome step by step. I think people do need that clarification and guidance, because as I said, there is so much different information. I do want to ask about a concept that you have termed the upper fermenting gut. What does that mean? OK. The gut is a tube. It's about 30 foot long. It starts at the mouth, and it finishes at the anus. Now, the first 25 foot of that gut should be near sterile. It should be near sterile. I mean, no surface in the world is perfectly sterile. It should be near sterile for the business of a digesting meat and fat and yes, absorbing some carbohydrates. The last five foot of gut, that's where the microbiome lives. And that's a different kettle of this. That's a vegetarian gut. That is full of microbes, one or maybe two kilograms of microbes. And there they ferment fiber, fiber that comes from food, and they do much good for the body. I think my personal guess is that the most important function of the microbiome is to program the immune system. To teach the immune system, what are the friendly bugs? Are there the good bugs that it can ignore? What are the bad bugs that needs to react against? But it does much other good as well. It foments fiber to produce short-term fatty acids ketones which are vital for the future. for our body. It produces many vitamins and minerals particularly vitamin K is very important. It produces neurotransmitters which are essential for normal gut function. So it does much good for us. In fact, it's been thought of as the as another organ of the body and that's how it should be considered. In fact, if you have mice that are read in an entirely sterile environment so that they never develop a proper microbiome, they are not healthy mice and they die young. So looking after our microbiome is as important as looking after our skin and nails, our hair, everything else. Absolutely. So when you mention the gut, so where it starts from the mouth, it finishes at the anus. So I want to ask about the upper fermenting gut because this is an issue that you have mentioned is a big issue causing so many chronic illnesses and problems. So what is that? The upper fermenting gut results when that first 25 feet of gut becomes colonized with bacteria, with yeast and maybe other microbes as well. Now what happens then, well many things happen. The first thing that happens is those microbes sit in the line of the gut and they cause inflammation there and where you get inflammation you get leaky gut and leaky gut as a disaster. The second thing that happens is foods instead of nourishing you and making you providing fuel for you and vital micronutrients, they nourish the microbes instead and those microbes start to ferment. And when they ferment, they produce all sorts of nasty toxins. Now we've touched on one which is ethyl alcohol. So when yeast ferments sugars, you get ethyl alcohol. But when bacteria and yeast and other microbes ferment other foods, you get propyl alcohol, butyl alcohols, ammonycl compounds, de-lactate, hydrogen sulfide, all sorts of nasty toxins. Now these have to be dealt with by the liver. The liver is an extraordinary sorting house. So the blood that comes from the gut, it all flows directly to the liver, a rather portal vein and the liver sorts out this toxic soup. It pulls out the good things that it needs to nourish us, energy, protein, fat, vitamins and it detoxifies all those nasty things that we can do without. If it didn't detoxify those things, if those things went straight into the systemic bloodstream, we would be unconscious in a few minutes. They are that nasty and toxic. But the business of doing that is enormously demanding of energy. So if you're consuming a lot of toxins coming into the gut, that drains our energy. Now I see lots of people with chronic fatigue syndrome and the people with chronic fatigue syndrome, they've got a rather small energy bucket. They don't have the energy that they need in order to function well. And if they're consuming lots of toxic foods and the liver is having to use that energy to deal with those, then it's good to end up, you're going to end up with less energy. It's going to make you fatigued. So having a full upper fermented gut is a major source of fatigue and foggy brain. Those toxins get into the brain. Just like alcohol, it gives you a foggy brain. That's the first big problem. A second major problem is that those microorganisms are as hungry for vitamins and minerals as you and I are. So people taking nutritional supplements when they've got a fermenting up a gut, you know, just feed the fermenters. Obviously some will get into the bloodstream, but not much is the waste of money, but I think a third major thing that is barely recognised by the conventional doctors are the microbes themselves. A, you know, look at life from the point of view of a bacteria or a yeast in your gut. Having found a nice home for itself, it doesn't want anybody else moving in there. It wants to keep it to that little ecological space safe for itself. And it does that by producing toxins to kill other microbes. So yeast will produce the whole range of microtoxins. In fact, many antibiotics that we use are microtoxins and they have fungal names like penicillin, kephalus borin, arrhythromycin, streptomycin, these are all fungal names. The bacteria themselves, they produce bacterial endotoxin and we know those endotoxins can be very nasty indeed. And then the microbes themselves cause a problem because we know they get from the gut into the bloodstream. It's called microbial translocation. Everybody will know about this because if anybody has a heart problem, if they go to the dentist, they have to take antibiotics before they have any treatment. Why? Because microbes in the mouth, you can detect them in the bloodstream in seconds minutes after you've had any dental procedure. And that includes brushing your teeth. So these microbes get into the bloodstream. And because they're not evolutionally correct microbes, because the immune system hasn't been looking at these microbes for hundreds of thousands of years, it thinks they're foreigners. And that drives inflammation wherever those microbes end up. So if they end up in the muscles, muscle pain and fibromyalgia, if they end up in the joints, joint pain and arthritis, in fact, we know many inflammatory authorities are driven by gut bacteria. If they get into the gut lining of the gut, you can drive inflammatory bowel disease like Crohn's disease or Alstip colitis. If they get stuck in the skin, chronic herdecareer, in the brain, psychosis, that's a really interesting one. In the lungs, in trinsic asthma, in the kidneys, kidney disease, they drive much pathology. So keeping the upper fmenting gut at bay, preventing these microbes colonizing is a very, very important part of staying well. Perfect. Okay. So that totally makes sense. And that really explains how these microbes that can be in the upper gut area. So the upper fmenting gut can cause so many problems and inflammation. I do want to ask a question around, if somebody cannot lose weight, this is a big thing. People want to lose weight. How can an impaired gut or gut function stop somebody from losing weight, even though they're trying to lower calories? It's never that simple. There's never one single thing that can be done. But what is important are the satiety, well, first of all, the satiety hormones. The hormones that tell us that you are full, that you are satisfied that you've had enough to eat. This is where ultra-process foods illustrate this point very nicely because ultra-process foods are processed to give a nice feeling in the mouth. You know, the right textures of smoothness, of succulents that tell the brain, oh, you know, that's a nice food. It's got fat in it. It's got sugars in it. You know, it's got some protein in it. So, yep, that tastes good. But it doesn't, they don't fool the gut. They don't fool the gut hormones. So those foods are swallowed, but you then do not get the release of essential satiety hormones, like leptins and gorellins that tell you you've had enough to eat. You're not hungry anymore. You don't need any more food. And that will drive obesity because these people are hungry all the time, and the more they, the hunger they get. So there's certainly a hunger element there. But a major issue has to do with the thyroid and the undracked ethyroid is extremely common. And the first thing I like people to do is do a paleo ketogenic that, low-encarbohydrate, high in fats, because we should be fueling our body with fats. But to be able to fat burn, you have to have some thyroid hormones there. Now, the undracked ethyroid is very common. Indeed, my guess, and it's only guess, is that one of the commonest cause of an undracked ethyroid is excessive alcohol consumption. We know alcohol is very toxic to the thyroid gland. And if you drink too much, you will knock out your thyroid gland. But there are many other cause of undracked ethyroid. Lack of iodine, we're all iodine deficient without iodine supplements. The thyroid is particularly susceptible to viral infection. In fact, we know that COVID-19 infection will cause, will, will has a potential to knock out your thyroid gland. So I know that's less to do with the gut, but it's an important factor. That difficulty losing weight is often a symptom of gut health. But in my experience, it's more commonly due to an undracked ethyroid issue. It makes sense, because I just thought I'd ask that question, because I do get a lot of people wanting to do the protocol that we're going to talk about, which is lower in the carbohydrates, and even maybe starting with a carnivore diet in some cases, if you want that fast quick option. But they say, I'm trying to lose weight, and why I cannot lose weight, but it could be your gut function as one, your thyroid function as another thing. And we always talk about testing your thyroid and all that different thing to understand if you have an undractive thyroid, which is very, very common. So getting back to gut issues and gut health, what are the symptoms that people would understand to see that they could visibly see? I have a gut problem. It's very clear. What would be the symptoms? Okay, well, one very obvious symptom is the size of the stomach. So, and this is predicated on some lovely work done by a research called Caroline Pond. Now, she asked the question, where do wild animals store their fat when they store their excess calories, when there's excess food? Because in the autumn, you know, there's hopefully there's an abundance of food. There's lots of grass, there's lots of berries, there's lots of roots, there's lots of nuts, and wild animals have the potential to get fat. And of course, that's important survival value for the winter. So when she was cycling into work every morning to Milton Keynes University, she would pick up roadkill and dissect it. And what she found is that those animals dump fat where the immune system is busy. Now, that makes perfect sense. And for wild animals, that was around their lymph nodes because they're obviously prone to accidents, getting cuts, getting bruises, and they need a strong immune system to fight any infection there, and also for healing. and repair. So she established we dump fat where the immune system is busy. Now if you've got an upper fermenting gut then you've got a leaky gut with potential for those microbes to leak out of the gut into the bloodstream and that's where the immune system needs to be busy and that's where fat is dumped. So if you are apple shaped, if you've got a big tummy that's going to be then that's a very powerful clue that you've got an upper fermenting gut and we know people who are apple shaped are at greater risk of heart disease for example and you know I've often wondered why that should be and the answer is they've got all these bacteria and yeast spilling into the bloodstream and that drives inflammation and inflammation anywhere in the body will drive pathology. So that's often a very useful clue. Another useful clue is fatigue, foggy brain, they just don't have the brain power, they don't have the energy that they need and my view is that as a now modern humans are much more fatigued than we ever used to be. You look at the old television programs like your Z-Cars and those programs they were all slim, every piece of me saw was slim and running around and busy, people in the street were slim and running around and busy and active but it's not so, I mean being overweight and being apple shaped has now become the new norm. So just being overweight and fatigued with an apple shape is a major clue that there are gut problems and then we have symptoms that are local to the gut. So probably the obvious one of up fermenting gut would be heartburn, hiatus hernia, regurgitation, cough at night, acidity, indigestion, bloating of course as a carbon symptom, these are all gut symptoms that we can get which are typical of the apple fermenting gut and some people think I'll wait for those gut symptoms to arrive before I diagnose it, no, look at the bigger picture, look at your energy levels, look at how your brain's functioning, that gives you much more important clue and then of course there's sometimes symptoms of the lower gut problem such as constipation, slow gut transic time, noisy gut, you know, ball pyregmyers they're cool when you hear it churning and rumbling away, those may point problems in the lower gut and of course pain and gut pain, muscle spasm is the most, is the nastiest pain you can experience, anybody, any woman who's been in labor, you know, anybody who's had gallstones or renal stones can testifies the fact that muscle spasm is extremely painful. So any of those symptoms are going to tell you you've got gut problems and the fact of the matter is all pretty much all Western pathology starts in the gut and it doesn't matter for what reason people come see me whether it's because they've got headaches or asthma or arthritis, I always start off sorting the gut out and sometimes that's all you have to do for things to drop into place. Now as Dr. Mayhil mentions many symptoms can indicate a damaged gut and the first step is to remove all the toxins that are causing these problems but this is not just the foods that we eat, there are actually chemicals in our skin care like parabens and thalates that can actually cause disease, they can disrupt hormones and even lead to insulin resistance because whatever goes on your skin can enter the bloodstream and go into the brain causing disease and long term health issues. And when I found that out that completely changed how I thought about my skin care because I have healed so much through a high fat kind of a diet, but I still didn't realize I was still exposing myself through chemicals through my everyday skin care and that's why we created the primal telebarms as a chemical free solution which became really popular and they actually sold out and I got so many emails from you saying well what about a chemical free body wash or a chemical free soap? Well for the past few months I've been making my own telosaube and shampoo bar and it's been a game changer and it's really helped me with my sensitive skin and I'm really excited to share that with you. Our telosaube are 100% natural and made from grass-fed grass-finished telos, they cleanse gently without stripping the skin and keep it hydrated and have even improved my skin texture. They also naturally contain fat-slable vitamins A, D, E and K2 that our skin needs for proper hydration and health and the best part is there's no nasties, there's no preservatives, there's no artificial sense, it is just pure telo and I personally love to use this unscented bar and I can even travel with it, it is amazing and right now the primal is offering my viewers 20% off store-wide for the next 7 days. So if you want to pick up a telosaube or even a telobarm just head to shop.thepramal.com there's also a link in the description. Let's be more on how to fix and repair the gut and the microbiome. So the first step that you call it is starve the bacteria. Now let's first talk about the dietary protocols to do that. So what is the fastest, quickest approach if somebody wants to starve and kill that bacteria? Well, as you write your point out we have to starve them out. It might be bacteria, it might be yeast, it might even be viruses, it might be parasites. This is why I deliberately call it upper fermenting gut because that doesn't imply an actual microbe. But the approach to treatment is exactly the same. So we're not feeding them and what makes bacteria and yeast cells and viruses, indeed different from human cells, is they can only run on sugars and carbohydrates. Whereas human cells we can happily run on fats and we should. That's the evolutionally correct fuel for our bodies. So we do a very low carbohydrate diet, that is the starting point. And of course a very easy way to do that is the carnivore diet. Now I have my paleo ketogenic diet which I describe in one of my cookbooks, the P.K. cookbook. And some people say, "Well can I have this, can I have that, can I have the other?" Sometimes the carnivore diet is a very useful start because there's no doubt about that. We all know what to meet, what's fish and what's eggs. It's simple. You have as much meat, fish, eggs as you like. And A, that's intrinsically low carbohydrate. And B, it's also low allergen because allergism is a major driver of gut symptoms. And the three common foods that come up time and time again are the gluten grains, dairy products and yeast. And of course the carnivore diet is free from all three of these, those things. So if you really want the shortest route to getting a result, then you start off with the carnivore diet. The thing about microbes in the gut is to say once they're comfortably in sconce, they want to stay there. And so they track from two forms. They track from a form where they're alive and actively fermenting and they've got some food on board and they're busy fermenting away. And guess what? These microbes, they can double their numbers every 20 minutes. They're fantastically able to reproduce themselves. But when there's no food coming along, they're going to a quiet phase. They go to sleep. They're going to a cystic phase where they just hide and think, well, I'll just keep a low profile until some more food comes along. And though that cystic state can be very persistent. It can last for weeks and maybe months and who knows possibly years. So in parallel with starving them out with a ketogenic diet, what I also like to is kill them. And I've got three favorite tools that I use. The first is vitamin C. Vitamin C contact kills all microbes. And all humans are deficient in vitamin C because we can't make our own vitamin C. So it's humans, fruit, bats and guinea pigs that can't. So those sheep out in the field in front of me, my little dog Nancy who's sitting beside me. They can make their own vitamin C from protein, from sugar. But humans lost that ability. And Linus Pauling, very clever man, one, two Nobel prizes. He devoted the last third of his life to the study of vitamin C. And by calculating what other animals make, he decided that humans all need five grams of vitamin C daily for optimal health. Now I find many my carnivores can get away with less than that because I think much of that vitamin C is used up in the business of treating the upper fermenting gut. But five grams, this is about a rounded teaspoon of vitamin C. It's very cheap. And it gets what it's also highly protected against heart disease, highly protected against dementia, highly protected against degeneration and so on. So it's a very good all rounder to take. The second thing I love everybody to take is iodine. Again, like vitamin C, iodine contact kills all microbes. And it does much other good for the body. Obviously it's vital for the thyroid gland. It's vital for our mental health. The average IQ of humans is currently falling and much of that can be attributed to chronic widespread iodine deficiency. So it's great the upper fermenting gut is essential for the immune system. We concentrate iodine on mucus membranes because that helps protect us from infection. It's essential for the immune system to function tall. It helps us to detox my heavy metals. It's a very good antioxidant, even more so than vitamin C. So I like everybody to take lugals iodine, 15%, 3 drops in the glass of water last thing at night. And another multi-tasking tool which I'm exploring at the moment is methyl, sulfonol, methane, MSN. It's the biologically available form of sulfur and we are all deficient in it. And again, it's very good for the gut. Because in the upper gut which is aerobic, which is oxygenated, it kills microbes. But in the lower bowel, which is anaerobic, no oxygen, it acts prebiotic. It feeds the microbiome. It feeds the friendly microbiome there. So those are the three tools that I use in addition to the paleocutinate gut to cure the upper fermenting gut. And guess what it works really well. In fact, I've written a book called The Infection Game. game. And I was in that book, I asked myself the question, I wonder if any of these things have been used to treat helicobacter pylori. Now most people have heard of helicobacter pylori is the microbe that drives duodenal ulcers, gastric ulcers and causes much inflammation. It's one of the upper gut fermenters. And I found a Polish study and they took 30 old patients, 36 patients thing and all they did was give them five grams of it in the day to treat their helicobacter pylori. And when I looked at the study for all this, no way that's going to work because you're still feeding the sugar and carbohydrates, you're not doing any of us. And to my astonishment, that alone cured 30% of those cases. So I was impressed by that result. But my view is if you combined that with a keto diet and you gave them iodine, and maybe MSM as well, you would get a much better response rate. And guess what, I've had several patients that have cleared their helicobacter pylori simply with the simple nutritional interventions because the alternative is heavy duty antibiotics and PPI's. And that's going to mess with your friendly microbes in the microbiome. So these interventions say they're intrinsically safe and we should all be doing them. Absolutely. I want to go back to specifics around how to first starve the microbes. So as I mentioned, I mentioned bacteria based actually microbes. So they're a collection of yeast, bacteria, fungi, all these little things. There's good guys as bad guys, they all do a job, we want to have a balance, we want to have the good, but take away all the bad, which is coming from toxins and not just from foods, but our everyday environment. So step one is to starve the bacteria. We mentioned the role of a carnivore diet. I just want to ask some questions around there because I know people are going to have questions about vitamin C because they probably think, gosh, but if I'm carnivore, I don't need vitamin C, a score big acid because I get enough from all the food I'm taking. So I'll ask that question a bit later. But first question, getting back to the food, what exactly should you not be eating? So step one, no carbs, no sugars. Is that right? Keep them as low as possible. I mean, I wouldn't say no carbs and no sugars because actually sugar does have an essential role to play in the body. So much so that if we complete your sugar and carbohydrate starve, the body will make sugar from protein. It's the raw material from which we make DNA and RNA, which is obviously essential for the genetic code. It's essential material to make ATP, which is the energy molecule. And it's an essential for detoxification in the liver scheme called gluteuronidation. So some sugars in the diet are essential for the body. The problem is they're so addictive and we tend to overeat them and then the body burns them off to get rid of them. So we use them a few to get them out the way effectively because we should be running on fat and fiber. So they do have a role but a very limited role and too much will be, will just feed the fermenters in the up and up. So yeah, low carbohydrate is absolutely the starting point. So if somebody wants to introduce that type of way of eating, what should they specifically eat if they're eating a little bit of carb? Is it like leafy greens, low oxalate greens, that kind of thing? Well, whatever is necessary to stay in ketosis and this is where tests can be very helpful. And the thing is you don't have to be in ketosis all the time. Primitive woman was not in ketosis all the time. In the autumn, there was a windfall of free food. There was loads of fruit, loads of nuts, loads of root vegetables and grains and she would have switched on her carbohydrate addiction gene and she would have eaten these foods in an addictive way. And that has evolutionary benefits because by doing that, she would have got fat and getting fat in the autumn is essential survival value for the winter. It's your own personal pantry. The eight insulates you and keeps you warm and be nobody else can steal that food. Can they? It's all, we hear about squirrels storing nuts in the winter but sometimes they can't find those nuts and they might starve as a result. Whereas we can always access those fat stores. So switching in and out of ketosis is no bad thing but we just, the problem with modern Western diet is we're out of ketosis all the time. We're running on sugars and carbs all the time. So most of the time we want to be in ketosis but for the occasional feast and guess what? Of course I feast occasionally. I'm a keen gardener. At the moment, I had a Victoria plum tree that's riper and the plum's are absolutely divine and I can't resist them and I feast on them and I probably not myself have had to ketosis but it doesn't matter for short wind of time so long as you get back on the wagon. I've got some friends coming to stay this week and they're all carnivores so guess what? I have a carnivore week ahead of me. So the answer is to ring the changes and not be stuck in all the time. What's very useful is to measure your ketone levels and I've experimented with breath ketones and with urine ketones but really intrude the best of blood ketone tests and there are a bit of a pain to do. I know that and they're a bit expensive but you don't have to do many to know where the balance lies. So what what you have is a little kit you can get. I use one called ketone mojo. When you prick yourself to get some blood don't never prick your finger because you destroy the little nerves there. So always I do the fat pad that's just at the ball of my base of my little finger or the base of thumb. So give it a good squeeze it goes pink and then it's almost painless and you can get a little drop of blood but that will tell you if you're producing ketones and pretty much any amount of ketones will do because the body will always get rid of sugar first and once it's got rid of sugar then it'll switch into ketones. Now of course there's a there's a switch over patch where you've got part ketones part sugar but I'm satisfied with any amount of ketones. For cancer patients I want much high levels of ketone because again cancer cells are like bacteria and yeast they can only run on sugar. So if my cancer patients are being much tougher with the diet but for other people who are normally healthy and well I'm satisfied with with any positive ketone tests. Okay so that makes sense so when I asked about what foods to eat it's more about keep the carbohydrates as low as possible to get some ketones and we want to test the ketones blood ketones because people want to know this information and I do want to help people understand what to eat what not to eat because surprisingly people will do a carnivore diet and then they're hearing that fruit and honey are healthy for you and they're like well not really you should not be having that. So test your ketones. Why is ketones or being in ketosis so important to fix your gut? Because if you're in ketosis then you can infer that you don't have an upper fermenting gut because you need sugars and carbohydrates to ferment the upper gut if the sugars and carbohydrates are not there then you can't have an upper fermenting gut and being in ketosis tells us that the sugars and carbohydrates you know are not there. Absolutely so it makes sense that when people want so doctors say be in ketosis and it doesn't matter what the number is as you mentioned earlier so even if it's 0.3, 0.5 or one it's okay I get this question a lot that people say why aren't my numbers high enough I'm not measuring high ketones doesn't matter if you're measuring anything at all it's perfectly fine and as you said you can be in and out right of ketosis and still have good health and fix your gut. Correct but again you have to listen to the symptoms as well you know it's you know it's a sliding scale because it is you as the levels of sugars come down so the levels of ketones build up so there's a bit of a crossover I mean a very very good way to get into ketosis and get your sugars down is to exercise because as soon as you exercise you burn off all that sugar and the other important point about exercise in keeping physically strong is having a large muscle mass increases your bays and metalbolic rate and again that helps to clear sugar after the system this is why it's such a problem for the patient's ICU chronic fatigue syndrome because they're unable to exercise they don't have large muscle mass and so they have to be even more strict even more tough with the diet so you know and and for athletes this is a very particular problem so if I was you know I don't tend to be an expert trainer but if I had an endurance athlete who was doing marathons you know Ironman challenges you know endurance stuff then I would want them in ketosis all the time because we you know it's a very efficient way of getting energy to muscles and improves your power weight ratio in addition so for example Michael Morton holds the world record for the furthest distance run in 24 hours he's a keto-adapted athlete who didn't have to eat yes he had to drink and have some electrolytes but he ran twin in 24 hours he ran 172 miles now if I had a power athlete who is a sprinter or a shop putter or a weightlifter then in the short term sugar is rocket fuel in the short term you can get that little bit more power out of running on sugars and carbs so I would train those athletes on a ketogenic diet but for a world you know winning performance I'd want some sugar and carbohydrates in there to give them that extra little bit of angel dust as the athletes call it that little bit of extra to give them the edge on others it always has to be seen in the clinical context and the point is once you're an experienced you know keto person you know when you're in ketosis you don't have to you know religiously measure and see and see and see you know you know instinctively when you are there and there are lots of useful symptoms that give us a clue which I detail in the PK cook but for example you don't get hungry, you don't get tummy rumbles and when you may but you ignore them and they just go away. You don't get power dips. Very often people say you know running on sugars and carbides "oh I have to have a snack in the middle of the morning because my brain runs out of energy, my body runs out of energy" and I have to have a Mars ball or a piece of fruit something to whip me up again. That disappears around a keto diet. Your energy levels are absolutely constant. Again what follows? Blanch sugar fluctuations going up and down are as adrenaline levels going up and down and cortisol levels going up and down. So as soon as you have your breakfast of you know half a pint of orange juice with some toast and marmalade and and and cereals and all that your blood sugar will be going up and as the blood sugar is running out of course sugar is so damaging to the body. It's sticky stuff, it's sticky in the hands, it's sticky in the arteries. The body cannot permit that. So it produces an insulin and insulin brings the blood sugar down very rapidly. It brings it down by shanty into insulin. So this is another reason why people running on sugars and carb hydrates struggle to lose weight because insulin levels are constantly spiking or constantly high and when you're in insulin mode you're in fat laying down mode. So you can feel starving hungry but you're still laying down fat. But what follows that spike of insulin as the blood sugar has come down is a spike of adrenaline and so people feel wired but tired. They've got this high level of adrenaline making the feeling not on edge if you're drawing 20 cups of coffee but they haven't got the energy to live up to those demands and anxiety you know nervousness tremor shaking we call it hypo glycemia but actually it's not hypo glycemia it's symptoms of adrenaline. That's what you get when you're running on sugars and carbohydrates. So getting into ketosis as soon as you you're being in ketosis and and confirm that with some blood tests you know what it feels like and you know guess what we're we are a nation of addicts in fact we are a species of addiction we naturally get addicted to things and what characterizing addiction is short term gain and long term pain and you know people fool themselves constantly and sometimes I do as well I'm fooling myself with my Victoria plums in my garden and then we should particularly delicious but guess what they'll only be here for a few days and then they'll be gone and and I'll be back in de ketosis again. So we fool ourselves with addiction and and we use that whether it's caffeine, nicotine, alcohol you know or illegal diction like cannabis, heron we use it for short term gain and long but it's long term pain. So when you get out of that addictive up and down as you know you've really arrived. I thought I was fascinating that you are this almighty doctor but you know that you're fooling yourself with that little fruit that you're having so you think you know that okay so I need like a short period time but I'm getting back to my proper paleo ketogenic diet that's very important especially when people are not moderators they tend to be abstainers especially in the carnival realm and it's natural to have this addictive personality to carbohydrates and sugars I myself cannot stop if I start that's why carnival works for me. And that is the basis of my addiction test. So if you gave me a packet of cashew nuts I wouldn't dare have one nut because the whole packet would disappear. It's the same with you gave me a bar of chocolate you know I wouldn't dare have one square because the whole bar would disappear. The threshold is about the 90% chocolate I have 90 percent or 100% I just have one square I don't want any more. The low carb nuts like Brazil nuts or macadamia or walnuts I'll have a couple and I don't want any more but you give me peanuts or cashew nuts and let's say the whole bag disappears. So that's my personal addiction test and you ask any alcoholic you know what alcoholic celebrate they celebrate complete abstinence. They know they can't have they can't have one drink because then you know they're not happy until they're completely blotto. So that's how I know I'm not an alcoholic you know occasionally at the weekend I'll have a gin with fizzy water and lemonade that's my alcoholic drink and I only need one and I don't want any more but you know if you gave me a high carb you know a sweet you know the cure or something you know I'll be drinking drinking all that's nice all that's nice all that's nice all that's that tells me it's not the alcohol I'm addicted to it's the sugar. So use a personal addiction test and that will give you a good idea of of what you can and can't have. Now as Dr. Myhill mentions most of us are addicted to sugar and carbohydrates so the best way to fix your gut is to actually get control of your appetite and simply drop the carbs to under 50 grams a day but some people need to even drop it to zero carb and with a zero carb or a carnival diet I have seen so many success stories people reversing chronic health conditions like heart failure thyroid issues or even diabetes all while losing weight while eating more food more fat and more protein and I experienced the same when I went carnival five years ago and what I found completely helped me and my community stay on track was medical support through carnival doctors because I had the same questions as you what about my cholesterol how much protein and fat should I be eating well that's why I created a private online community called go carnival which is completely off social media this is a safe place where you to ask all of your questions to our favorite carnival doctors including the ones that you see on this health podcast one of the best features about our community are our monthly challenges we do challenges like our high fat challenge even our dairy free challenge and our protein challenge and this is where our members get the best results so if you want to try carnival with the medical support just head to go carnival.com and try your free 14 day challenge and start your free meal plan let's focus on what to eat so what are the most effective superfoods cheap superfoods that people need to eat to fix their gut obviously I love carnival and people forget about awful because awful is the most delicious and the most nutritious foods and it's very inexpensive so liver, kidneys, heart, great superfoods and by lightly frying them with butter and salt and pepper you can make a delicious patte for example I am a great fan of paleo bread which is made from linseed and you have no way you can buy this inexpensively but you can make it yourself very cheaply and very easily and in my pk cookbook there's a recipe there for pk bread and it looks like bread it tastes like bread but it's only 2% carbohydrate I mean when I started to become an advocate of a paleo keystionic diet I realized that people are always going to miss bread and I had to make a bread substitute so I got up every morning early from about four months and experimented with the whole range of grains and ingredients and this afternoon I then came up with my pk bread and I can make a I actually make a flat bread these days because it cooks more reliably I can make that in less than 10 minutes and if you've got bread and you've got butter okay you you can be allergic to dairy but it's unusual to be sensitive to butter or you can use vegan butter then that's a great start and then on that you can have you know tin meat I'm very happy with you to have tin fish tin meat so my lunch is often a tin of sardines or tin of of macarol something like that I think I've got some tin salmon wild lask and salam for lunch today that with the pk bread you know it's not expensive it's very filling and it's in it's very nourishing but eggs are not too expensive as they cheap cuts of meat that they're they're always the best you don't have to have the the top stakes you know fish I'm very happy to have frozen fish and you can get packs of you know frozen card and I have macarol I have smoked macarol I have a conserote in my fridge freezer all the time they did frost very quickly so you know they are you know I'm you know reasonably inexpensive and nourishing and then you need something for like all the crunch factor of course I'm very lucky I'm a gardener and at the moment in the garden I've got peppers and I've got lettuce and rocket which gives me that nice crunch factor and celery celery is easy to grow and on salarics easy to grow you know raw carrots raw cabbage that gives us the nice you know crunch factor as I call it and I pretty much live live on meat and vegetables you know those are my those are my staple foods I say occasional I have low carb carbon nuts but they are expensive so brazil's and hazelnuts and walnuts they're expensive but they're nice for a treat again dark chocolate that's expensive but you know I don't crave that anymore so I just have a square occasionally so I'm ashamed so I've never actually taught it up the cost of a week's food but then I'm a garden and so I'm making I'm growing quite a lot of my own so it can be done inexpensively but don't forget awful you know awful is inexpensive absolutely delicious and very nutritious very nutritious absolutely so it's good to incorporate all of these cheap and nutrient nutrient dense foods including the organ maids and then if people can tolerate vegetables because I know that many people in the carnivore space maybe they don't tolerate the vegetables so if they do want to focus on the meat only that's fantastic what do you think about bacon is that good for gut health? No problem at all bacon I mean bacon is very you know gets a bad press because the night trites in it but there are night trites in vegetables and if you're taking vitamin C I mean the only risk of night trites is they get converted to nitrosamines and yes they're nasty toxic chemicals but with vitamin C on board that just doesn't happen so I'm very happy to recommend bacon in fact I was just listening to just been reading Clarissa Dixon's rights book a history of English food and the staple food the poor man's food the peasants food in the in the 10th 11th 12th century was bacon and eggs you know that's what they powered themselves with everybody had a pig everybody had hands I'm very lucky I've got pigs and hands and that was their food that powered them through the day and look at Nelson's Navy. What did they eat there? Salt pork. They lived on salt pork and peas, and they achieved great things on the back of that, boiled peas. So, you know, bacon is a very good food. I mean, of course, Nelson's Navy, they didn't have vitamin C. They in some succumb to scurvy, so I'm not recommending that for solely. But, you know, there's nothing wrong with bacon, at all. Han, salami, that's all part of my carnivore diet. Brilliant. Okay, let's move on to the three things that you mentioned earlier to help also kill the microbes, the bad bacteria, yeast and fun guys. So, you mentioned the iodine. Kind of loves love their iodine. How much do you need? What brand do you take? How often? Okay. Well, the cheapest brand of all is Lou Gold's iodine. On my shop, I've got a 30-mil pot, which I think costs £7, and that allows you for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And if you're a sick person and always start off with the tiny dose and build up gradually, but I like people, depending on their weight to take two or three drops in a glass of water, lasting at night. And by time I go to bed, my stomach is empty, so I'm taking three drops of iodine on an empty stomach. Now, the joy of iodine is it contact kills all microbes at 10 parts per million. So, a very weak solution will have a profound effect on gut flora in the upper gut. And because it's completely absorbed and excreted in the kidneys, it protects the kidneys for infection, but it doesn't get to the microbiome. So, it doesn't kill the friendly microbes in the microbiome. The only thing you have to remember about iodine and vitamin C is you have to separate them out. One of them kills because it's, when I was reducing agent, the others are not oxidizing agent. One's an electron donor, one's an electron receiver. I can never remember which way around, but it doesn't matter. What do you have to remember is separate them by at least two hours. So, the way I remember to take my supplements is in my bathroom, I have a cup of shelves, and as I'm brushing my teeth in the morning, my eye falls on the top shelf. Oh, I mustn't get me multivitamin and my co-cuter and my vitamin C. And then it looks about, oh, I mustn't, and then in evening, oh, I mustn't take my iodine and my joint mix or whatever it is that I'm taking. So, the point about all these regimes is they've got to be easily and simply moved into your life. You know, if they're very expensive or they're difficult to do or they take time, guess what? You'll do them for a couple of weeks and then you forget about them. So, it's got to be frictionless as possible. If your life is as frictionless as possible, it then means you have the time in the energy to do all the fun things. So, my regimes are so light, keep them very simple, very easy, so they can be readily incorporated and therefore sustainable in the long term. Absolutely. We mentioned the vitamin C earlier. So, five grams a day. Everybody should be taking that along with if they're doing a carnival diet. Last one, we mentioned was MSM, which is organic sulfur. Now, would you have to be careful about that. Don't take that forever. How much, how often, and how do you have that with the vitamin C in iodine? Okay. Well, again, it's fast evolving to my favorite multi-tasking tools because it does so much good stuff. Now, the fact of the matter is we are all deficient in sulfur. Not my words, but the words of Stephanie Sennaf, who is a highly qualified researcher in America. We're all sulfur deficient and sulfur is so important for connective tissue, for detoxing, for getting rid of heavy metals, for improving for phase water and I could talk all day about for phase water, but again, that reduces the friction in the system. And the joy about, I mean, there are many biological sulfurs we can use like enastyl system, like glutathione, but they're expensive. The joy of MSM is it's very cheap and you can safely take it in grand amounts. So, I can buy a kilogram of organic MSM from out of 30 quid. That's a fraction of the price of glutathione enastyl systems and so on. And it does so much good. And because we're all deficient, I mean, the carnivals probably won't be deficient because there's lots of sulfur and meat and connected tissue. But we should probably all be taking maybe half a teaspoon daily in the long term. But for the purposes of improving health or for detoxification, protection against cancer, for example, then I advocate 10 grams a day for a window of time of three months. Now, these are not my words. These are the words of a doctor in America called Dr. GI Genel. I'll send you my MSM handout. That details the benefits, but the point is it doesn't taste too awful. One of the things that all carnivals do is you all have bone broth on the gal all the time. I then a slow cook up. In the winter, I have my wood burning stove going, so it sits on the back of my wood burning stove bubbling away. And so I have a cup of bone mill bone broth in the middle of the morning. And then I put in a half a teaspoon of MSM. Doesn't taste awful. With the pinch of my sunshine salt, it's absolutely delicious. It's a real high point in the morning that I look forward to. Brilliant. And also your sunshine salt is very interesting. It's molten salt with 14 different minerals that's added in there. I'm going to leave that in the show notes. I really wanted to buy that. I thought, oh my god, this is amazing. I really want that. Everyone needs more minerals, even if you're on a carnival ketogenic diet. So last topic is just how to detox heavy metals in general. So you have a protocol, which is different things, but the first one was a heating protocol. Why is that important if you want a detox, heavy metals, pesticides, glyphosate? No. No. Heating won't do heavy metals. Okay. So the heating regimes, I mean, the fact is we're all poisoned. I have a whole lecture on this. But just take my word for it. We're all poisoned. I've done fat biopsies. I've done blood tests. I've never found a normal result. We are all toxic. Now I split up the toxins into the mechanisms by which they're detox. So as we've discussed, you get rid of many toxins with the liver and the liver needs energy and raw materials to do that. But the toxins that don't get to the liver, they don't arrive there, they get stuck in fat. The liver can't do those because they don't get to the liver. So we have many toxins stuck in our fat and we can get rid of those with heating regimes. Now any heating regime will do. Going for a run, sunbathing, if you're lucky enough to have a sauna, fantastic, far-infred sauna, fantastic, excellent salt bars, brilliant, so spa therapies. Because what the heat does is it warms up the sub-gitanious fat and shakes up these molecules so they diffuse onto the lipid layer on the surface of the skin. And from the lipid layer of the surface of the skin, we can then wash them off. So the washing off is as important as the heating regime. So go for a run and then have a shower. Go for sunbathing and then later on have a shower. Epsom salt bath of course does both because you're in the bath, soap, so the toxins are coming out onto the lipid layer of the skin and you're washing them off simultaneously. And as we speak, I'm putting together detox cream, which basically is a mixture of organic coconut oil, sheer butter, with vitamin D in there and vitamin C in there. And the idea is you put these nice, clean organic oils on your skin, the chemicals mobilise from the fat into those organic oils and make the whole business so much more efficacious and efficient. And of course those things are also very good for the skin. So that's how we get rid of the pesticides and the volatile organic compounds. Now heavy metals are different. Heavy metals, they don't get to the liver because they get stuck in our tissues. So if you're deficient in a mineral like zinc or magnesium or selenium, then the body will grab something that looks similar. And that's something that looks similar might be aluminium or cadmium or lead or mercury or something or arsenic and they get incorporated into the tissues. In fact, I read a paper once showing that the levels of mercury in the heart are 10,000 times hard nose in the bloodstream. It just illustrates the point. Those metals get stuck in there. And once stuck in there, they don't come out through the kidneys. They don't come out through heating regimes. We have to use a collating agent to get rid of them. Now collate comes from the Greek. It means a claw, a crab's claw. And these collating agents will grab hold of the heavy metals and they'll pull them out through the urine. And popular ones, things like EDTA, DMSA, DMPS, these are very good collating agents. But they're expensive. And my poor patients who don't have the money can't afford intravenous collation therapy maybe they can't afford even the oral collation therapy which is expensive. And I had a patient who came to see me, a lovely guy, Frank Dalton. He doesn't mind me using his name, so I'm not breaking data protection act, who was really interesting heavy metals. And we were doing collation tests for him with urine every six months for a couple of years. And what was so fascinating is when he took the collation initially, yet we got a spike in mercury, got a spike of lead, they all came out. But I then started on MSM for another reason for his gut problem. And when he repeated that collation test, we suddenly saw big spikes of bismuth, of tungsten, of platinum, of tin, you know, things that hadn't come out before. And most importantly of aluminium, because we're all poisoned with aluminium. And I was so excited by that because in it suggested to me that that there are a whole range of toxic metals we got onboard, that MSM is good at pulling out. So as we speak, I'm setting up a little study. And that's with the help of my lovely patients. And the deal is that they're all going to do a heavy metal test using MSM. They have the bad news is they have to pay for the test, which costs £135. They have to pay for the MSM, which costs £30, but they get a free interpretation from me so that's my business. the study and then we're collecting the results, it's going to be called the citizens paper. So anybody takes part of it, it's going to be a named author on the paper and the joy about doing this is we don't have to get ethical committee approval because you can anybody can experiment on themselves and everybody will be shared in the results as we go along so people can see the results as they come in that nobody is suffering, that it's safe, that it's pulling out these heavy metals and then we'll publish that in the journal and water molecular medicine. So but I've got pretty good circumstantial evidence already that MSM is good at pulling out heavy metals and if we can confirm that with the citizens paper then that will become the method of choice for removing heavy metals. Wow that's amazing so with all the protocols that you're mentioning people can not only fix their gut but take away all of the toxins, pesticides, heavy metals with those three additional supplements, cheap and cheerful as always. Last question for you, a quick fire question, three questions, yes or no answers. Do you think that fiber fixes the gut? No. What about apple cider vinegar, good or bad? It's very good to help the acidity of the upper fermenting gut to help to digest and keep it sterile but the people allergic to yeast could be made worse by it. Interesting and I've heard milk kefir is helpful for the gut, is that true? I doubt it and I say that because milk is a major allergen, kefir contains yeast which is a major allergen and you are not going to change the microbiome by eating something or you're not going to change it very much because those microbes should be killed by an acid stomach. What's so fascinating is I found a paper looking at the microbiome of a carnivore and what's so interesting is it's just as healthy and just as diverse as that of an omnivore. Carnivore diets are not bad for the microbiome. One last note, the single most dangerous thing for the microbiome is glyphosate. Glyphosate is a pesticide widely used in the whole of chemical farming. It can kill up to 54% of the microbes in the microbiome. That is very bad news and we're consuming glyphosate in very high amounts. How are we having glyphosate? It's in our food. If you have a food that is chemically farmed, it's from glyphosate. Glyphosate is used as a desiccant. What that means is just before its crop is harvested so if you've got to feel the wheat, what you want is you want to harvest it dry because that saves drying costs in the grain store. Just before harvesting the whole field is sprayed with glyphosate. It kills the wheat because it's dead, it stands in the field and it dries out very quickly. But then when you harvest it, it's full of glyphosate. That's not the only stage of harvesting that glyphosate is used. It's used as a weed suppressant as a herbicide. It's used throughout the farming industry. It's the single greatest use pesticide in the world today and it's extremely nasty toxic stuff. This is why I don't like my poor patients spending a lot of money on expensive supplements and detox regions. I want them spend their money on the best food they can possibly get. Meat is going to have a far lower pesticide burden than vegetables and fruit. Go as kind of or as you possibly can. Do the detox regime because that will help to reduce the load. When you do buy vegetables or fruit, try to go for organic. My daughter lives down in Brighton. She has an organic food box that comes and she spits, I think it's cost of 20 pounds a week. She says, "All vegetables and fruit that she can eat in a week." For 20 pounds a week, deliver to her door and she gets whatever's in season. This time of year she'll get some some Victoria plums I expect and a few raspberries maybe. But then she'll get some vegetables, some lettuce and some tomatoes and some cucumbers. In the winter, she'll have more potatoes and parsnets and sweets. But it is doable if you shop around and look for what's best. Brilliant. Dr. Myall, thank you so much for your time. How can people find you if they want to see more of your work? Just go to my website.DrMyall.co.uk. I noticed it had 32 million hits since it's inception in 2014. It's well used. There's now advertising permitted on there. All the techie works have been done very generously by Terry Ellison, who's an incredibly generous guy. It doesn't cost me anything, it cost me a little bit to keep it open. It's free for everybody to have. I wish I could put all my information on there, but I do have some books. If I put all the chapters on my books on there, then my publisher will have me hung, drawn and courted. There are some books as well that you're most welcome to purchase, of course, but much of it is on the website free available for all. Perfect. All those links are going to be in the show notes. Dr. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for joining me today on this episode with Dr. Sarah Myall. If you're learning from and enjoying these free episodes, please feel free to hit the subscribe button. That's an excellent zero cost way to support what we do here. You can also find me on other social media accounts, one Instagram and on X under the name of the Primal Podcast. And if you love this episode, check out this one by Mary Ruddick. It is all about how to fix the gut microbiome and the worst foods that you're eating every single day that is slowly destroying your gut. Finally, thank you for your interest in root cause healing, and I'll see you next week.