Ep. 131 | Interview With Attempted Murder Survivor Kenna Renee Harper

Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day-gum v-grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily! Mavily's guest has a story that's hard to hear and even harder to have lived. As a child, Kenna Renee Harper survived something no child should ever have to face, at the hands of her own mother. And that's where her story starts, but it isn't where it ends. Because since then, Kenna has spent years doing the work to get past that, and she's been able to turn it into something. She's the founder of Unbound Legacy Co. An apparel company built on a simple idea where you're testimony. An every design is made to spark hope, and to remind people there's courage and finding joy, and to open up conversations about the stories we all carry. Stories like the one she's about to tell, and a portion of every sale goes to support children who've been through at first childhood experiences, just like she did. So if you'd like to support her and her mission, I will make sure to put all of those links down in the description, along with her socials as well. But I came across Kenna's story while scrolling on social media, and I got the opportunity to speak with her about it at length. And our conversation is very raw and open, and I just want to thank Kenna for taking the time to come out to me to tell you guys her story. So without further ado, let's meet Kenna. My name is Kenna Renee Harper, and you can find me pretty much on all social medias under that Kenna Renee Harper, except for on YouTube, it's official, Kenna Renee Harper official. And yeah, I'm a survivor, and I am an advocate, and I really believe in sharing not only my survivor story, but the stories that I feel like so many other people kind of hold to themselves because they're scared of their nervous or they're afraid of speaking the truth. And so I feel like that's why I started sharing my story and trying to carry that boldness and that courage as a survivor myself, and so that it could share that hope with other survivors, too. And you originally shared a story on TikTok? Yes, yes. So originally, a couple of years ago, I shared my story for the very first time. It was like some trend, some Susie stitch, and I shared it super quick and kind of blew up, and then I kind of put a pause on it because I wasn't really in a place where I feel like I was still processing it. And then being a new mom this past year, I had my daughter, and it was the first time that I felt like I saw my story and its entirety being a mom myself, and so I really wanted to start sharing again. So I started sharing on TikTok and then Instagram and Facebook, and it just kind of grew from there. Absolutely. And I mean, the story is about how your mom attempted to kill you, which is horrible. And I mean, I think everybody is so interested in that story because there's a lot of why and how, and like, how does it lead to that? And I think, I know, let you explain it, but there's a lot of addiction involved, and there's is there mental illness involved and I'm assuming. So I'd really love to start with your childhood, like, what was that like growing up? Yeah. So I have a blended family, my parents met, and they got married super fast. They were pregnant before they were even married, and my dad had kids with a previous marriage and my mom had kids with a previous partner, and then they met each other, and then they had me really fast. It was like this big, blended family, and I think my parents were divorced within a year of them being married. So I've always said that I kind of was born into a life of chaos already, like it was just kind of part of me and my story, and they lived in different states. And so I went back and forth between both of my parents. And what I understand it was every six weeks, I was on a plane back and forth between states, between Idaho and Washington, or wherever my mom lived at the time, she moved around a ton. And so that was kind of how my childhood began. And for the first few years, like my mom was my best friend, she did everything for us. She said she always wanted to have a daughter, and so I was actually supposed to be a boy until I was born in the birthing center. They were like, wait, it's a girl. They were like, wait a sec. No, it's not. It's supposed to be a boy. Like, what's going on? She said she, that was always her prayer. Her dream come true was to have a daughter. And so I think that that really carried out in the way that she parented me, and I felt like for the first few years, probably six years of my life, I was spoiled. I got to do any activity that I wanted to do, and I got to be involved in dance in the Portland Ballet, and all of these different things she just wanted me, if I was interested in it, she wanted me to try it. She was the director of a Kinder Care, which is basically like a child care center. And I'm not sure if she even graduated high school, but she always was able to get these really great jobs and provide for us because she was a single mom. And all of that felt really normal. I didn't feel dysfunctional at the time, it just felt like everything that I'd ever known. And it was just me and my mom and my brother, and we just moved around a time, and I went and visited my dad. But my dad's house kind of felt more like a vacation because my mom had primary custody. It wasn't like, you know, your week on week off, you have shared time. And it was like, okay, when you go to dad's house, it's like two weeks in the summer time, and then, you know, when I start school, I could only go there every other holiday. Right. So your mom's house for most? I'm at mom's house. A majority of the time. She's primary. She's making all the decisions, all the medical, everything. And then dad's house is just kind of like, I get to go to dad's house. I play for a week with my brothers, and it's so fun. And then I come back home, and I'm, you know, doing tours, back to reality. Yes. I got my dad's house that I had like a true, like, landing space, you know, like a true. I shared a room with my step sister at the time, and it all felt very temporary. So mom's house was definitely like the stable house. That was your space. It was your safe space. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that was basically my childhood. She always moved around a ton. So we were back and forth between Washington and Oregon, and I don't think we ever stayed in a house longer than a year. Like, I think I lived in 22 different houses before I was 18. Holy crap. So I was always on the move, but that again, at the time, just felt normal. I thought that everyone did that. I didn't realize that there were people who were born who lived in the same house until they were 18. Yeah. So, yeah. So we moved around a ton and then my sister was born in 2004, she was going in 2004, and we are about seven and a half years apart. And that's when I really started to notice a shift in my mom. She started becoming less of a parent and someone who was looking after me and making sure that things were getting done and that I was following the rules and really being that parent figure, she really switched from that to demanding a lot of us in the home. And my brother, he's also seven and a half years older than me. Okay. So there's seven, seven years. Yeah, yeah. Basically, yes. Okay. So you're a little child. Yeah. You're a little child. Yeah. Yeah. and once my sister was born, I don't know if it was postpartum. I don't know if there was a shift there, but that's when I really really, and I don't know if it's because also I was older. Like I was starting to realize things even though a child when they're in first, second, third grade shouldn't know some of the things that I knew. But I think I just started to become more aware, I started to really be preentified, and I started to understand that like something wasn't right about my mom, she wasn't the mom that I had always known, but I didn't know a name for that. I didn't know that it was addiction, I didn't know that it was mental health issues, I didn't know that there was some really tough demons that she was battling. I just knew my mom was sick, and that was kind of the rhetoric around everything, like mommy sick, she needs to get better. Whenever I would ask questions like well why do you stay in bed all the time, why are you not doing well, why can't you get up and do the normal things that we always do. Because oh, mommy sick, and she has to go to the doctor to feel better. I had no idea that mommy was sick because she has an addiction issue, and she has, you know, these pills that I'm getting up and taking out of the pill bottle and giving to her every day. They're not medication that she needs. She need, yes, yeah, yeah. I think that my younger self just thought that when you go to the doctor and they give you medicine, they're doing it because you're sick, like, you know, you have something, yeah, you have something wrong with you, and once you take the medicine, you feel better, just like a sore throat or strep throat or whatever. And that is what I thought I was, you know, helping her with or that she was battling with. And I didn't understand that the panic attacks that she would have to go to the ER4, that these were almost like, like episodes or scenes in order to get more medication. And the kinds of pills that she was on, like, was it, like, pain medication? - So it was a mix of benzodiazepines, lorazapam, hydrocodone, chasidone, oxycautin. So there was pain medication and benzos to treat, like, anxiety. But she was using them both at the same time. - Yeah. And I'm assuming since you're at that age, so you're about seven, eight at this point when you're, when she's starting to get into her diet, you notice. - Yes, yeah, yeah, around eight years old, yeah. - Yeah, so you're at an age where she can justify it to you in whatever way she wants, because you're a little kid, you don't know any better. And then your brother's at an age where he's probably, you know, checked out doing whatever he's doing, and then you have a big sister. So it's kind of all on you at that point. Did you feel that or were you just like, I'm just helping mom, like, were you, did you feel like she was using you at that point? Or was it more just? - I think just children are sponges. And at that point, I was just a sponge to my environment, and I just had to adapt in any way I knew how. And so that just all felt really normal to me. I just thought, okay, yeah, mom is shifting. She's not doing so well. So as a family, we just take care of each other. And so I kind of like came into this role, not realizing it was printification, not realizing that I had to kind of come up with these coping skills in order to survive that environment. I just thought that that was normal. And so, of course, I was going to take care of my baby sister. And at that point, like, I loved it. It was almost like, you know, like, oh, this is like my real life baby doll. Yeah, like I'm like, I'm so mature. - Yes, yes. Like, I just came into this role of like, yeah, of course, like all, you know, change her diapers and all get her when she wakes up from a nap. And I'll make sure I'll play with her. And it's so funny because now that I have a bonus son and a daughter of my own, and they have a five year age gap. I see that so much of that, like, children just kind of take on, like, they just want to help. They just want to be a part of it. But now seeing it, like, that that was fully my responsibility, not just something that was fun to do, not just something that I, you know, was just helpful. It just really makes me realize how unhealthy that that was that I was expected to do that. And also for my brother as well, I mean, he was in his teenage years. And he was having to, you know, cook for us and make sure that if I wasn't getting to school, that he was the one to take me to school before he went to school. - He took stuff on his own. - Yeah. And he definitely took a lot of stuff on. I mean, he was a teenage boy too, so he had a lot going on. He was very, very aware of what was going on in our house. And I don't know to what extent, but he definitely had to take on those things as well. - Yeah. And did your dad know anything about this at that point? - I have no idea if he really knew the extent of what was going on because he also battled with addiction himself. And so I think being in a different state and kind of being in his own world, he wasn't able to one be the parent that I needed to like step in and notice those things because he was also struggling himself. And how do you also notice those things when you're a state away and you're not seeing absolute your child all the time. And then, you know, the conversations and just how those visits were. It's not like I was really reflecting on things that were happening at home. So I think that that was hard. And when you're in the depths of addiction, I don't think you really even see. - No, you're in your own world. You have blinders on. And that's the most important thing. You know, people in my immediate family dealt with that as well. And it is. It's angering for you to watch it, but it's. There's also sympathy because it's like. They're sick. They are sick. That doesn't mean their actions are justified. But there's some understanding in that way, which I'm assuming that you're. I don't want to assume anything that you can see it from that way. It's just. It's a very difficult relationship to have, especially when you're only seven years old at the point. - Yeah, absolutely. - And so with what happened, where were you. You were 10 years old? - Yes. - That happened and where you, with your dad or with your mom, like, how did it. How did that come to be? - Yeah, so leading up to the event, I. I felt like I could tell that my mom was really struggling in those. weeks leading up to what had happened to me. I was in, like, this church performance and stuff, so I was calling a lot. One of my best friends, her mom, really, like, took over and would take me to those rehearsals and would step in. I actually ended up staying with them for, like, two weeks. My mom, like, went off to a different state. And at the time, I thought it was for a job. I think it was later found out that she was kind of trying to seek some sort of help. But then when she came back, nothing had really changed, nothing had really shifted, other than her still being sick. And this particular year, it was my dad's year to have me for Christmas. And so how that split was basically, like, in two week blocks. So, like, either the first week of Christmas break or the second week, you go with mom and then you go with dad. And so that first block was with my dad. I flew and went to my dad's house in Idaho, and then my parent, or, and then my siblings stayed with their dad because we all have different dads. I think that's a lot of confusion that people have. Like, okay, well, you have all these siblings and where were all the other kids and what was going on? And I come from a family like that, so I totally get it. Yes, yes. Like an ex-mom, two dads, so much. I want to say, hey, at least Christmas, I flew to a different from Canada, so I flew. So I get it. Yes, yes, it makes sense. Yes, yes, so there with their dads, I go to my dad and I celebrate Christmas, just like any other fourth grader. You know, I'm just excited. I'm excited for Santa. I'm excited for what's, you know, what's to come. And also when you're a child of divorce parents, like, you just try to make the most of it. And you're like, okay, I get two Christmas's. Like, this is so cool. Exactly. You know, like, double the presents, bring it on. So I spend Christmas with my dad and we get a trip to Disneyland, which is like every child's, like, super bowl. Absolutely. This is what I've dreamed about. And so I'm so excited. And I want to call out my mom and tell her, obviously, like, the good news. She's my best friend. I felt like I was really anything that ever happened in my life. I wanted to share with my mom and I felt like kind of an extension of her at the time. I didn't know that that was very unhealthy, but it was just something that like everything I wanted to do, everything that I experienced, it was I wanted to do with my mom. So I call her up. I get to tell her and she's not as enthused as I expected her to be. It was almost like she was put off and I learned at a really young age to read emotions. So I gauged that she was unhappy about it and that something was off until then it made me kind of feel that way. Which looking back now, I'm like, that's so sad. Like, what a way to like rob your children of joy, just because of your own emotions and your own feelings and resentment. Whether that be towards my dad or towards the fact that she couldn't do that for us or whatever that was that she was carrying at the time, I just I think that all of those things should be put aside for your kids. But I obviously felt that emotional shift from her and so I'm like, okay, well, I think I'm excited to see you like, you know, trying to kind of like manage her emotions. And she's like, yeah, well, we'll see if you if you even go. So I'm like, okay, like I hope so, you know, so I just try to like divert and say, okay, I'll see you because I was planning on flying out later that day to go and see go back home and see her. And then we were going to celebrate Christmas with my brother and sister the following day. So we get off the phone and actually something that I kind of forget about the story is that she had asked my dad if I wanted to stay an extra day, which in hindsight, then my siblings would have been home. And it would have changed all plan. I don't know if that would have changed anything else, but it was just strange because to change a flight last minute is just not easy to do, especially around the holidays. Like it's just it's expensive. It causes a lot of confusion for me, obviously, as the kid, like you just kind of want to stick to what is a set in stone, not as much routine as you possibly can. So my dad was like, no, we're not changing it. Like you're going on the flight and you're going home. So that was that I got on a flight. And I went back to see my mom. It was kind of a later flight. So I think we got in about like six or seven. And then be sure. because we lived in a little small town in Port Angeles in Washington. It's two and a half hours away from any airport. So when you fly in, you have to make that drive. So it makes for a really long travel day. So I got in, I'm really excited to see her. And then we make our way back home. And at that point, like I could tell that she was doing fine, like nothing really, I don't know, people ask like, did you see any signs? Like was she acting abnormal? Like she wasn't intoxicated. She didn't seem to be on any medication. I could usually tell when my mom was at her lows or when she was, you know, she had her highs and she had her lows. And then when she was on her medication, she was very lethargic. She was out of it, all of those things. She was acting fairly normal. She was asking me definitely a lot of questions about my visit, kind of trying to gauge how my experiences were with my stepmom and what the household was like and things like that what she often did. Again, not really a red flag, like she was one of those parents who was very involved in parental and alienation. Is that, is that the right? - I think so, yeah. - Yeah, trying to use your child as a vessel for information from the other parent and to get messages from you to the other parent. - Yes. - I understand that. - Yes. - To be honest, not to that degree. - Yes, yeah. I feel like it's probably common and a lot of people can relate to that in terms of people with separated families. - Yes. - It's just like, oh well, why did they do that and why are they doing that or are you going to do it? It's just, it's so manipulative and a child shouldn't be used in that way. But I think that's the perfect, yeah, parental alienation. - Yes. Yeah, and I had no idea obviously at the time that that's what was going on. But I think in high conflict, co-parenting situations, that is often apparent, like you said, because they're fishing for information. They want to know, I think that there's like this, there's this idea that the child owes you some type of loyalty or that parent, some type of loyalty. And so that was often what it was is like, I feel super loyal to my mom to where I felt like, if I had too much fun at Dad's house, she would be upset. Or if I liked my set mom in any capacity, she would be upset and that would be disfoiled to her. And so this feeding for information was very normal, but it was very unhealthy. And so I remember making a comment about like, oh yeah, my set mom said, like you're crazy, like trying to change the flight the day before whatever, which, you know, hindsight, like that is wild. That is wild, like I might have made a comment like that too, but obviously that made her very upset. And I felt the sense of, I have to be extremely honest at all times. And as a kid, like that's what you're taught, be completely honest with your parents, tell them everything. And so I told her that and I could tell she was very unsettled by that. But other than that, like the ride back was fairly normal, we had our little debrief. I played some games to keep me company and like keep the drive going by. And then I started to develop a toothache pretty bad. And so I just told her like, oh mom, like I'm really in a lot of pain. She's like, oh don't worry, we'll get you medicine when we get back to the house. I'm like, okay, okay, just try to rest basically. Try to just make the time pass as quickly as you can. And then we'll be fine. So I think at that point, like it took a little nap and I remember laying my head on the center console and waking up and being at our house in Brangelis. And when we got there, it was pretty dark. It was nighttime at this point. We were basically like, let's get our pajamas on and let's just go to bed. So we go inside and I put my suitcase down and I show her my brand new pajamas that I got for Christmas. And I'm just like so excited that like innocence of a child, like I'm back home. Also, I co-slapped with my mom up until this point. And I, again, I think it just kind of shows the level of enlightenment and like I'm not again, it's like a co-sleep owl. You know, like I think it's beautiful and wonderful and I love when my daughter sleeps with me. But up until you're 10, never sleeping in your own bed, like there's a level of like, okay, there's really no separation. Like there's really just dependency on her. And you just like, it's an investment. Yeah, totally dependency. And so it was our bed. Not my mom's bed in my room upstairs, like. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna get in bed and she's like, okay, you get ready for bed and I'll be in in a minute. Okay, I'll put on a movie, what not. I knew that was pretty late. Like I was pretty tired, I was exhausted. I mean, you get up at four a.m. for Christmas. When you're a kid, like you have no idea. And so like at that point, I'd been up for so long. So I was pretty ready. And at that point, I didn't really notice my two-thick. I was fine, I didn't want the medicine. She was like, well, I'm gonna bring you some medicine. Anyway, I'm like, no, thank you. Like at this point, also, I feel like it's really important to know I developed a distrust with doctors with medicine. I was pretty strict on not ever wanting to take medicine because I didn't trust that it would work. Because for multiple years, my mom was sick and she was supposed to be taking this medicine that was gonna make her better. And time and time again, I saw this, these high highs and these low lows and then the medicine not working. My mom's still staying in bed, not being herself. And so any time I came for me to take any medicine, I threw tantrums. Like I did not want to take him. I didn't think it would work. I was very distrustful. And so when my mom told me that we were gonna take medicine, I'm like, no, I would honestly rather, like have whatever pain that I was having, then take medicine that wasn't gonna help me in fear enough. And so when she said that, like, I'm like, oh no, I'm just gonna fall asleep so that I don't have to take the medicine. Well, she is taking a lot of time. She's like in the kitchen and our, I say our bedroom's still been so funny. So our room was here. And then there was like this tiny little hallway, the stairs go up and then the kitchen right here. So just very close adjacent to each other. And I'm like, why is that my mom like coming in here? Like why is she still taking a long time? So I go and check on her. She says, my kind of go back inside. She doesn't hurt into the bed. She doesn't want me to come and check on her. Which again, very purantified. I felt like I constantly had to check on her make sure she was doing okay. Like make sure emotionally she was doing what she's supposed to be doing if something was out of the normal I knew. So I sensed that something wasn't right. And then she took a bath. And I'm like, well, why is she taking a bath? Like it's so late. I think at this point, you know, it's like nine o'clock. Why is she doing this? Like we should be going to bed. So then I check on her there. She yells again, my kind of go into bed. So finally I go in and she's like on the computer. And I see a couple of glasses like in the distance. She's like, I'm going to get you on your medicine, but you need to go into bed immediately. And she started to get more stern. And like I pretty much knew at that point that's like the mom voice, like you don't mess with, you don't mess with mom at that point. And so I just go back and I just try to fall asleep. And I think I did. I dozed off a little bit. And then I was woken up by my mom saying, like okay, Mike, I have your medicine. And I looked down and there's this clear glass. It's a short glass. And it's like kind of like murky. I could see like crumbles of like light stuff, which at the time I thought was just like an alkystalter tablet. And she's like, okay, you need to take this to feel better. I'm like, oh no, I feel better, mom. Like I don't need to take it. I'm okay. And she's like, no, you're going to take this medicine. And so I started drinking it because she was my mom. And she told me too. And you have this undying trust that your parents are always going to do what's in your best interest. And they're always going to protect you. And if she's telling me this will make me feel better, like it's going to make me feel better. So I started drinking it. And I explained it like the worst taste I've ever tasted in my life. Like when you have that film, like that chalky film on a pill that you have to take. And it was that times like, I say a thousand, but it was like, it seriously was the worst. Like I couldn't take pills after this for the longest time because that taste just triggered everything in my body. So I tried to just drink it just with the water and the pills, which I thought were motrin or children's Tylenol or something. And I couldn't take it. I was having a full mental breakdown. I was screaming, I was crying. And she's like, okay, well, then if I put like a Capri Sun in there, well, that make it better. So I'm like, well, maybe we'll try some juice in there. So she got a Capri Sun, she put that in there, which helped, but it still was horrible. And I ended up finishing the entire drink. I drink it all. And almost instantly I remember feeling like a complete, just like heaviness about my whole body. Like everything time kind of stopped in that moment. And then she was like, you're gonna feel so much better now. And I remember laying like my head on the floor. Hello, and then, that was it. The next thing I remember was waking up in the Seattle Children's Hospital, and my dad was right there holding my hand sobbing. I have all of these IVs in me, and I'm just wondering, like, where's my mom? - Yeah, 'cause now you're, I mean, are you in the same state at this point? - Yes. - But you're like, two, three hours away at a different hospital. - Yeah. - You keep time traveled. - Yeah. - You're 10. - Yeah. - Just confused. - Yeah, to what's going on. - Yeah. - And then, so did your dad kind of tell you, well, I mean, as much as he knew, or 'cause I'm assuming, I'm assuming the cops are involved at this point, because the doctors have to be like, she has an inordinate amount of drugs in her system. - Yeah, so nobody was able to tell me what was going on at all, and I think that was the most confusing point for me, because I just kept asking, where's my mom? I'm now that I'm awake, I'm thinking it's the next day. I'm supposed to spend Christmas with my siblings. Like, that's the most important thing I'm focused on. I missed them. Like, I wanted to get my presence with my mom. Like, I just wanted to have family time, and I just kept asking them, where's my sibling? Where's my mom? Like, why am I not in pretty angeles? I just came from Seattle. Like, we just drove away from here. So, why am I here again? And nobody could tell me. I had no concept of why I was in the hospital, why I was hooked up to anything. It was a huge room, and my dad could be there, and like, my dad's out of the family could be there at like, in certain increments, but the cops were at the front of the doors. So, they were constantly being monitored. A majority of the time I had to spend time alone. They would give me a coloring book, and they could, like, I could color to pass the time, but really, or like, watch TV or whatever, but they were advised not to tell me anything. And so, I was just left to just be, and I didn't even ask, like, I think that, I don't think I've ever shared this before, but like, I didn't even think about myself in that moment. Like, I didn't think about like, am I okay? Why am I hooked up to this? Like, why am I in the hospital? Like, all I was thinking about was other people, and like, my mom, which is crazy because I've been going back in the case files, and the nurse who is taking care of her, she noted that she didn't ask about me once. Like, she didn't ask how I was doing, or like, if I was okay, which just shows you the level of honestly insanity that she has, because I think about my 10-year-old self, and that's all I asked about was her. - Yeah. - So, yeah, it didn't, in those days following, and everything that happened after, and being in the hospital and everything, nobody was telling me anything, and I think that they wanted to preserve my testimony, and what had happened. There was a detective that came in immediately at the Seattle Children's Hospital to interrogate me, and I don't remember that, like, interview at all. And then, when we got back to Port Angeles, I had that interview again, which I've been able to sense watch over, and it kind of brings back memories. I feel like I'm still watching it from above myself. I'm like, dissociated from my body, but people ask, like, well, when did you know, when did you know that your mom tried to kill you? When did you know that the medicine in there was a lethal dose of benzodiazepines, pain killers? They estimate about 50 to 100 of them, or in just my drink alone. - 'Cause she drank so much as well. - Yes, yeah. So they, this is kind of where the story gets a little confusing. And I am processing this now, going back and looking at the trial and its entirety, and I'm only, oh gosh, I think there's 1,400 court documents on the week long trial, and I'm only, I started kind of at the end and I'm working my way back, but her whole defense was that this was a, there was a homicide letter, and this was intended to be kind of like a murder suicide. So she wanted to take my life and hers as well. Which, from the outside looking in, if you see and you read the letter that she left, titled Last Well and Testimate, there is, you know, there's how she titles it and who she writes to and how she says, "Spread our ashes along the spit." And I mean, she fully intended for definitely me to be gone, but she says that she wanted to take me to heaven with her. But now looking back, she walked out of the house completely fine. And I was taken out on a stretcher. My whole arm was losing blood flow. I had white stuff coming out of my mouth. I was in a coma for a couple of days. They had to give me multiple narcan reversals and other reversals in order to even get me to wake up. And it's a miracle that I didn't have anything lasting. Medically wrong with me, my brain was okay. My organs weren't shut down, anything like that. That was a miracle. And so it's really hard for me to look at all the evidence and the premeditation that had to happen. And I think the prosecution did a really good job at poking holes in the defense of like, hey, okay, if you did just snap, 'cause you can hear the 911 call. I have that on my page of like, she called 911. She called 911. Yes, yeah. And that's another thing, like people call 911. Like when I tell this story, I'm like, I'm telling it from my perspective, but she actually calls 911. Yeah. So I was administered the medication at 10.30. They around that time, they asked me. And then they estimate that if she took any, which she did take some, you can hear it in their voice, that she took some medication at sometime after 12 because the last will and testament was saved and printed at like 12.09. So that's two hours after I was administered it. So I'm like basically lifeless in another room. She's printing out this last will and testament, putting it around like fully knowing that I'm not doing well. And in the crime scene photos too, like she would have had to crawl over my body and place herself in the bed closest to the wall, which is just eerie to think about too. Like, she knew they had been hours. Also, the barostication points out that there was no like nightstand. Like the room that she had was very small. So the bed basically went from like wall to wall. So in order for her to crawl over me and then have access to a phone, she literally had to have brought it in with her. So her whole idea of, oh well, I just, I came to and then there and God must have just placed the phone on my chest because then I just knew I had to call to save my daughter because she's now the savior. That's the defense. Like, oh, I had to save because I wanted both of us to go to heaven because I was so scared that McKenna was being abused and all of these different things, which there's so many holes in that eerie. Like I hardly saw my dad, you know? Like my dad never abused me and it's wild that was, what was used of like, oh, I just had to save her. I was so scared. It's like I wasn't gonna see him for months, you know? Like were you mad that he was taking me to Disneyland were you jealous? She also saw me as just a full extension of her. So there was never this like whatever my dad had done to me. Like was she jealous that I had this relationship with my dad? There's so many thoughts, but when she calls 911 and she says, I just snapped. It's like, okay, well, you had to fully, you were fully capable of driving home from Seattle. You were fully capable of taking a bath, you were fully capable of riding this letter. The prosecution points out that there's no punctuation issues. Her name is about, she's able to say the pin of her bank account. Like this is someone who was not under the influence of any, she hadn't taken the pills or anything at this point. And so I don't know. I think that I'll spend probably the rest of my life speculating like exactly what had happened. She's the only one who truly knows the timeline and she never testified, she never spoke to exactly what had happened in the walls of that house. But from what we know, she walked out, she was able to walk out of the house when she was taken to the hospital. She was treated, you could tell that she had taken something. But also when you think about addiction and an addict, they take so much whatever their drug of choice is, their tolerance is so much higher than anyone else. You can't compare a 40-year-old's tolerance who's an active addiction to a 10-year-old. - No. who has never taken a single pain killer in her life. So I think that was like a huge gap also and and the fact that she was she was okay. The nurse says that actually took care of her where she was fine. She was asking for a blanket. She was demanding all sorts of things for herself while the the small the hospital in my hometown couldn't even take care of me and had to life fight me to the Seattle Children's Hospital just to try to get some extra pair to save my life. So yeah that I think that that part is really hard for me because painting it as if she's the savior or that she was trying to do this to herself. Now looking back as an adult I just don't see that being real. No and she was she was a savior and and then she became the victim. Yes it's like oh poor me. Look at what happened to me and I saved her but and then she's not even asking about you. It's just yeah the amount of selfishness and I'm assuming narcissism and just as just awful. Yeah. Continuing your mom's in the hospital you're in the hospital. You've spoken to your dad. You've had some interviews and I know I I did watch what you showed of you getting interviewed as a 10-year-old you're incredibly well-spoken which kind of just speaks to how you were identified and made to be the adult essentially in your relationship just just the way you speak you can tell. You're just like very poised and I'm assuming do you remember any of that at all or is that just a blur? Yeah. Because I know you said you were kind of looking in on yourself. Yeah so when I saw that for the first time it definitely brought back that suppressed memory that I had forgotten about like I do kind of remember being in that room but I think trauma has this way of suppressing memories as a way of protecting so like a lot of that it's like I can I can put myself back there and I remember bits and pieces but like the entirety of that video I don't recall um this specific questions or emotions I felt during that time I don't remember so when I watch that footage back it like breaks my heart all over again because like you said you can tell how printified I was like I remember being that little girl I remember being like labeled as smart or like mature for my age and I didn't know what that meant and now seeing that like I cannot believe that was me at 10 years old yeah and so much of like the personality traits that I've always carried I thought were just personality traits but they were really just products of survival and like ways that I had to be in order to cope so being like articulate or overexplaining myself or like you can see in the in the interviews I am like hard on myself I'm like drawing something for him like the layout of the house and I'm like oh that wasn't very good that that present wasn't symmetrical or I say something like that and I'm like poor girl like you're in this interview room with no concept of what has gone on the fact that you're even alive is a miracle and you're just worried about like making sure that you paint this picture for the detective in the right way yeah so yeah that's just I think that's really hard to watch myself in that way and then realize that there's a part of these memories that I really don't recall at all like I remember a lot but then there's parts that yeah I don't I think that's just natural yeah brains just protecting itself yeah and and at that point it seemed like in the interviews you're still care for your mom you're so worried about her to a certain extent yeah confused I'm sure more than anything but just like where is she how is she and that so at what point did did at any point during those interviews did they they didn't say anything because they probably just wanted to again what you said protect your testimony and to make sure not to paint anything yeah and I think that there was so much in the investigation on the back end that they had no answers for so they didn't want to give a child an answer and disappoint them they were trying to figure out the whole custody thing where I was going to go I was having to stay with the foster family because when I was released from the hospital because they didn't know if these allegations my mom had made against my dad were true so like what was in they kept saying what's in the best interest of McKenna what's in the best interest of McKenna and it's like it's hard because obviously a normal 10 year old like doesn't know what's in their best interest like and I didn't know what was in my best interest but I knew what was my normal and like I just that wish that there was a way for somebody to have sat me down and said in whatever appropriately aged way that they could have and saying like your mom hurt you or like something bad yeah yeah she did something bad and she's away and I think I started during that interview I kind of started to pick up on it because I got emotional at a couple points and I was like where's my mom like why is no one telling me this and why can't you tell me this then the fact that they couldn't tell me anything I was smart enough to know okay well something's bad like and then I even started to defend her I was like oh I think the medicine that she put in there might have been expired and that's maybe why I had a bad reaction and had to go to the hospital like I still didn't know that there were pills that wasn't children's motrin or that it wasn't alkycelt or like I was I didn't know but I was still defending her and honestly I don't think anybody told me what had happened other than continuing this this narrative that mom was sick and that's all I knew for like a while yeah because it's a long process right yeah yeah yeah there was a couple of days where they were trying to figure out custody my family in Washington was trying to fight for me to stay there because that was all I've ever known I had friends like my home base was there but then of course like my dad's out of the family's fighting for custody of me because I've never lived with my dad and he's the the next up what like the next guardian my guess of me so like that makes sense but he ends up getting custody of me and I have to basically just uproot my whole life and move to Idaho I wasn't able to like pack up my stuff I didn't I don't even know maybe they went to the crime scene and got like a suitcase because I do remember having my suitcase so maybe somebody was able to go in and just get me a couple of clothing items because all I had was what I picked up out of a trash bag in the hospital like that's what they give kids who don't have anything you have to pick clothes that don't even fit you and so all I had was the suitcase and then okay now your dad's getting custody of you you're upgrading your whole life we're gonna put you on a plane and then you're gonna go live with your aunt and uncle so that was another thing that was like so confusing because I'm going through all this I don't know what's going on nobody's telling me anything and then my dad's getting custody but I'm gonna go live with my aunt and uncle because why can't I live with my dad like nobody's telling me that and I'm obviously so excited at that point to live with my aunt because I love my cousins and like whatever it's a fresh start and but also I'm leaving my brother and sister I'm not even able to like say goodbye to my friends and having to just uproot everything and start new and I have no autonomy in any of this so it's asking me like what I want what's like okay you guys are all deciding what's best for McKenna at the time but like what about what I want yeah so that was like a really hard part of my story it was there no like therapist or counselor that stepped in to talk to you about any of this so when I went to Idaho I didn't live with my dad because of his addiction I lived with my uncle and I remember going to this place I think it was called the children's place and it was therapy for kids and it's basically play therapy so I did go for a very short amount of time I think I would leave on my lunch break from school and I don't remember if it was once a week or twice a week and I really don't remember it being very much longer than like a couple months and I'd go to this place I would sit down with the therapist and then we just talk and a majority of the time I was just asking about my siblings like is my sister okay because at this point I was like her caretaker so like my main concern is like where's my sister is she okay I don't know what goes on at her dad's house you know so because they just went to their other parents yeah I wasn't at their dads when they'd had visitations because I went to my dad so I'm like concerned about her because she's so young and it was just so close with her and again I'm not person I'm not kid who's just asking about everyone else and I don't think I was really processing what was going on with me and I do remember a conversation we were playing pool during this play therapy and they were saying like well you know that if your mom was in her right mind she would never hurt you and I think that like going back that's probably one of the first conversations that I had where I started to realize that she did try to hurt me and something was like horribly wrong and That was why I wasn't with her and then I just Think that over the next few years it transitioned to Your mom was not well. She tried to hurt you to Your mom tried to kill you and I don't know where that shifted Mm-hmm, but it wasn't in therapy and it wasn't I Mean I don't I should have been in therapy therapy a lot longer I was absolutely because I think that I I win a couple weeks and they're like, oh, yeah, she's good Mm-hmm. I think the thing about it is is that I Wish more Professionals and teachers and therapists. I don't know. I just wish that they Had more awareness that even if a child is acting like they have it all together that in and of itself might be a trauma response Absolutely, like I think that people look at okay if they're acting out if they're you know If kids look a certain way if they're not wanting to Participate if they're having tantrums if they're you know, that's a lot easier to identify Oh, something might be going on. It looks wrong. Yeah, something looks wrong. So something is wrong Yes, but then what about the kids who pour themselves into extracurriculars and you know being a perfect and having it all together even though something just went Horribly wrong and like oh, well, you know, she's doing surprisingly well It's like well, maybe she's not and that's just her way of coping with yeah You've been groomed to compartmentalize everything. Yeah, it's just yeah And I don't think kids get enough credit for a smart. They are yes, like just it's just like even we're just watching you in that interview It's just like gosh you get so many things you have Handled and dealt with and you know taking care of your sister and your mom and it's just you're just so little You don't think a kid would understand it or like they clearly can't say anything to you It's just like I just want to scream through it and be like just tell her what's going on Yeah, that's what she needs to know. Yeah, so it's yeah, it's interesting. I know I don't know what the right answer is to it But I feel like at the very least yeah some even different kind of therapy because even I don't know I don't know what I know I know I know you clearly needed to work through these emotions and they needed to unpack it more And I don't know if you've done therapy now. Yeah, don't you have your sense? That's like wait, I'm an adult and I can like try to make sense of it But I feel like it would just be so much more beneficial if it was Yeah, she did like you're an actual not you're not an adult that like just older I think that's kind of like what I want to advocate for now and I feel like I'm starting to kind of like research like Okay, what are the ways that we can start to help children in these situations that are age-appropriate because also we have to know kids and that in those circumstances They have to be purified so like they have to be more mature at some point and so having these conversations like yes Maybe for like a normal 10-year-old who's in a stable household like that maybe wouldn't be appropriate But like how can we maybe not say oh your mom tried to murder you, but like yeah Can we have a conversation about I Don't know mental health and like what that looks like and you know, you know your mom had been sick for a really long time or you know Your mom had been struggling for a really long time. I don't know. I don't know what that looks like I think I'm just searching for that now like what I what do I wish that people would have done and stepped in yeah and What other ways of course I wish prolonged therapy would have prolonged therapy would have been something that was very beneficial for me Because at that point I think I just learned like you said compartmentalizing and then There was like this McKenna before and then this McKenna after and It's almost like I just had to switch on the survival mode of okay. Well now I have this new life I'm not gonna talk about what happened to me. I'm not gonna talk about my mom I'm gonna have an answer for everything if somebody asks why I live with my in-nuncle and I'm just gonna Push forward and pretend like I didn't have this other life because that's easier than Working through it, I guess yeah, yeah or Having everybody asking questions like you should know them. Yeah, so yeah, well why yeah, why it's like I don't know Yeah, actually and you probably won't ever know and that's I can't imagine how tough that is yeah but and then with the so in the story now where you she's arrested I'm sitting yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, and then I usually it takes years until you can do some sort of trial and to build a case and everything like that So do you see her at any point? No, or not until because you testified. Yeah, yeah, so you testified There was two years, which is pretty typical for any trial. It usually takes two years or more To go in front of a jury. So in that two years I Was in Idaho. I didn't go visit my family in Washington How that that I remember no when she was still out because she ended up posting bail or Yeah, she was on house arrest. Yeah, so she ended up being on house arrest for a majority of that time. I Think that her bail was set at like a half a million or something like that. I'm not sure But yeah, she was on she was on house arrest and she was functioning like a normal human she was you know Watching my cousin she was normal and and the thing about it is too is that If you knew my mom before addiction She obviously had some struggles with mental health like I think that that has been prevalent her whole life and There is a certain level of empathy. I have for what she went through because right these things don't just come out of nowhere like She also experienced her own trauma But it was never dealt with and it was never dealt with in a healthy way and so people just Thought on the outside. She was like a perfect mom who loved her kids and you know whatever and then she had this addiction Aside from that and so when she's on house arrest like people know her for her So I think everyone around and then the family was kind of going through their own conflict of like we can't imagine that she Did this and like this had to have just been like drug-induced like it was only because she was on drugs like There's no way that she could have done this in any other capacity So now that she's clean like let's rally around her and I don't want bolts any of my family for Thinking that way because I put myself in that situation and if something like that Ever happened to me and my sister or something like that like I have no idea how I would react like I think that you're kind of all just in a state of survival of like Let's make sure McKenna's okay, but then also like let's You know we have to believe that this person isn't crazy and they wouldn't do this if they were in their right mind They've only seen her as that's good. Yeah, as my sister or my daughter or my face or my that my grandma was Pretty much the only one which is her mom that was like Right off the bat. She had a couple of conversations with her and then after that Within the first week she cut off all contact and hasn't been in contact with her at all since and my my grandmothers My best friend and I think that she saw right away that this was someone that was so incredibly unwell She tried to blame my grandmother. She tried to blame my dad. She tried to blame You know everybody in her life was put to blame for this except for her and I think that that's the hardest thing because You're out on house arrest. You're like living your life. You're getting all these friends from church You're trying to like rally around and get this case built like you're fine And I think she fully did believe that she had conversations. I heard some jail calls where oh I'm gonna be on Oprah one day because I saved my daughter's life and then I think that's when I Started listening to these back as an adult and realizing this wasn't just someone who Was in like a drug and do psychosis as she would maybe say this is someone who yes Of course the addiction didn't help usually if someone has Addiction issues. They have a dual diagnosis. They have some sort of underlying mental health issue Yeah, there has been multiple diagnosis is I don't know which ones are valid, you know borderline bipolar narcissism like a plethora of them So when you add that all together, like obviously that's a recipe for disaster, but this isn't just The drugs. There's many people who are addicts and I've been around that scene on my dad's side I've been to celebrate recover I've seen the addiction side of things many people who deal with that who struggle solely on their own They don't also try to murder their children or people who have borderline personality Who I want to strongly advocate for like they are also don't try to just murder their children. So just justifications. Yes No empathy for that. Yes. Yeah, and I think that I've been seeing these like ideas of like oh Because it was this that's justifiable like Absolutely not like there's no justifying you trying to murder your child. So I Think that in those two years back to the story is just her trying to build this case of I'm gonna pin this on like basically the insanity plea like I wasn't in my right mind. And yeah, I was so far removed. I was in Idaho. I was just living my own life living with my uncle and then going into sixth grade my dad had a year where he was completely sober. So then I went and lived with him. He got remarried to his fourth wife and we kind of just like started again a new life. Like I was so used to that. Okay. I'm moving again. I'm starting a new school. I'm starting a new friends. And we're going to start over again. So just got really used to like starting over. And then that's when we got the subpoena to go testify against her. And that was going to be the first time that I had seen her since she handed me that glass of medicine. So you were 12, 13 at this point now? Yeah. Yeah. My sister is over about that. Yeah. Well, first of all middle school. I mean, it's just so crazy. It's time for that. So you're going through all of this. And then yeah. And then I got I was extremely nervous. I was at that point living with my dad. Obviously he had his own opinions on my mom and he has he just doesn't have a filter. So it went that was kind of when it went from like your mom tried to hurt you. She's unwell to like your mom tried to kill you. And that was like laying down the facts of it, which she did. But I think that was really hard for me to process and then go into testifying of like, okay, well, now I'm not just facing my mom in court. I'm facing the person who tried to murder me. And that just that shift in realizing that those two people are the same person, you know, is something I just don't even think I can like explain. Like that feeling is so indescribable. I was nervous. I was I was having like anxiety attacks about it. And but I knew that I had to be brave. And then I had to put on a brave face. And I had to do it because whatever obviously helped the prosecution to get a better understanding of what happened. Like I was the only other person there that night. So like, I mean, I didn't have a choice. But I knew I wanted to be brave, which also is very interesting on like why children don't have a choice to testify. Yeah. That is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't I don't know what the exact rules are with that. Yeah. But since you're underage, she adds like, yeah, it's like you can't make your own decisions because you're underage even though it's like, no, I'm not actually comfortable with that. Like, why isn't there an option or is there I'm not sure I know was there. Yeah. Is there an option for you to sit in a room and get these questions not being in front of your mom? We haven't seen in two, three years. Right. Yeah. Because I know that like, I think that there is like with sexual assault victims, they're able to decide if they're going to face their perpetrator. So as a child and usually children have a lot more protection. So I would be interested or in curious to speak with the prosecution or to speak with someone who was involved in my case to see like, who made that decision that I was going to do it? And did I like, I don't even remember I just remember being subpoenaed. So like, did I say like, oh, I'm fine with that. And I just was like going to put them on my brave face. But yeah, I don't know or how it's just presented to you. It's like, oh, you need to do this. It's like, okay, and you're an adult basically at this point. Yeah. Because you've been how you were raised. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I'll do that. Yeah. Because you seem to be or used to be, I'm sure, have carried on now. It's just like, yeah, I have to do what I have to do because I have to do it. Right. There's no arguing it. Yes. So she adults. Yeah. It's like, oh, you're my elder. So I'm going to do what you tell me to do. Yeah, that's really interesting. I'd be curious to know about that because it does feel so just exposing and I can't imagine you felt up there. And with your mom there, did you pay attention to her at all or were you just blocking her out? Yeah. So it's kind of wild. Like, again, I see myself like up here when I when I visualize these things. But yeah, I walked into from this like side door and I wasn't able to be present for any of the other trials. So like, I didn't sit in on anything. So they just I had a caseworker and she she was lovely. She gave me this rock that said believe and I still have it and she said, okay, just hold this during you testifying and just like kind of like rub it if you get nervous because I like shake a lot when I'm nervous. And, you know, just know that like you can look at your brother or look, you know, just look somewhere safe. And so I go in and where I was sitting like the judge is here and then the court reporter is here and then I was here and so the court reporter was kind of blocking her like my line of vision to her. Which was amazing for me. Like, okay, good. I don't really have to look there and like I could just look for my brother for support and just like really hone in on that because he was like my safe place. But she did often try to like, you know, move her head and try to see me and glance because I'm sure that the court reporter was blocking her line of vision for me. And so I could feel that and that would make me like very, very nervous. And, you know, I'm sure I stumbled on my words. I'm still working through that. I haven't read my tests like me testifying yet in my court files. I'm working towards that now. But I do remember bits and pieces of the defense trying to kind of make me an incredible witness, which is wild. But they kind of wanted to paint this idea that because I'd been living with my dad's side of the family that they were like tainting my views of what had happened. So they really honed in on me testifying that I was watching a certain movie. I think I said while I was testifying that I was watching the double wears product while I was going to bed. But originally I had said Nanny McVee. Okay. So then they like hounded on this for like 20 minutes it felt like made the jury leave. Had me rewatch my interview where I said Nanny McVee and I'm like okay, yeah, maybe I did. Like it felt like such a silly thing to focus on when it's like hey we're focusing on what I said, like what movie I was watching, which was two years ago, which was also like I had gotten out of my coma, went to this interview basically. And like now I'm two years outside of it. Maybe I was watching Nanny McVee instead of the double wears product. But why are we focused on that? Why don't we focus on what I was doing? Yeah, yeah, like the actual important stuff I'm traumatizing. Yes. Fucking movie because I understand they're trying to poke holes in whatever you're doing, but that does seem like the bottom of the barrel scraping because they didn't have a case. Exactly. Yeah. It's awful for 10 year or whatever 12 year was 12. Yeah. So I must have been like I think I had just turned 13 at that point. And yeah, that just that seemed silly. I remember them also asking, you know, did your mom care for you? And I was really proud of myself because I'm like, well, care for me in the sense that she took care of me or that she cared about me because yeah, I believe that my mom did care about me, but she didn't take care of me. I was doing everything that I needed to to uphold the household. And so I do remember certain questions like that. The stick in my brain. I don't remember all of it. But it felt like a really long time. And like once I was done, we walked out of the courtroom and there was like this glass wall. And we had to walk by her. And I remember my brother kind of moving around me so that he could kind of block me from her and like shield her. And I think that was the most like chilling part of it because it was like this. I'm so afraid of this person. And like we're so close. It'd been two and a half years. Like I'd longed for a conversation. I'd been I'd gone from saving every school paper that I had in Idaho hoping to give it to my mom one day because I thought I was going to see her again to like realizing that she had tried to kill me. And like all I wanted to do was ask her questions like ask her for myself like why why did you do this? What was going on? Was this just the drugs? So it's like I'm walking by this person again that like I have so much love for, but I'm terrified of. Oh my gosh, you can't even imagine. Yeah, just and when the trial was over, what was the what was the outcome? Yeah, so she ended up being found guilty of her charges of first degree attempted murder. And she was sent in first degree. Yeah, first degree attempted murder. She was also found guilty of something along and I have to look this up. It's something that has to do with like neglect of a child. And so the the two were to be served concurrently. Is that is that the right word? Yeah, yeah, at the same time, consecutively. Yeah, concurrently. I think it's the same thing. They were they were to be yeah, they were to be served at the same time. So she was supposed to get 12 years total for it. That's insane. Which doesn't feel like enough. Yeah, we were so she was found guilty. And then what happens is that then there's a judgment and sentencing afterwards. And so that's basically when we're able to bring like our letters to the judge and pleading for a larger sentence and so my plea was that like, please make it so that my sister is 18 and grown and that I'm 18 and grown and like can we can be adults and we don't have to be fearful and we can kind of like develop and make our own choices at that point. And a lot of my family on my dad's side vouched for that as well. She had a lot of people vouching the other way for her too. And like to have as little sentence as possible that this was just drug-and-dustino. So I am interested in hearing and seeing those as well. I'm still like I said diving into those but ultimately she only got the 12 years and then she ended up only serving nine so she is fully out now and off parole and everything. Wow and I'm safely assuming you have not spoken or seen her or anything like that. I've had multiple run-ins. You have? Yeah I've actually had to back in 2020 I had to get a no-contact order. So let me back up so there was during the sentencing the prosecution was trying to get a no-contact order for life for all of me and my siblings like all of us for our safety. The judge only stated it for me. So she was also to have no contact with anyone under the age of 18 without parental consent. But she did still have some parental rights for all of us which is crazy but I did get that no contact order for life. At 18 years old I ended up breaking it because that was like the time where I was able to make that decision. And I just I had so many questions like at 18 I feel like you're starting to like question the world. Like you just like are what's your reality? What's going on? Like I was applying for colleges I was going to go out of the state and I just had I felt like I had this life ahead of me but I had again this this huge part before where I had so many questions. And so I ended up breaking that at 18 and going and seeing her in prison for the first time. And once you break that you're never able to get it reinstated and I didn't know that. I think that there had been some talk about that the judge was like okay you know what you're doing you know the severity and I'm like yeah I know what I'm doing like I'm trying to break this so that I can go see but I wasn't comprehending that I could never get a no contact order again. Clearly. Yeah yeah like like please let me know that I will never ever get this level of protection again. Right. And so yeah I just I was curious and so many people will say how could you how could you go do that? Like first of all that's terrifying which it was like going into prison to face her was but like you also have to realize it's your mom and like you have this biology if it had been some random perpetrator I don't think I ever would have shown that but all that I knew of her before this was that she was my best friend and then I was completely cut off and not able to have any contact so I just had I wanted to face her I wanted to have those questions for myself and I don't think I really ever got the answers that I was looking for. The blame has always been shifted it's always been everybody else it's always been the drugs it's always been some sort of explanation other than it was you know me yeah yeah yes and of course there's I saw I'm sorry and there's tears and that looks good to maybe the outsiders you know like oh well I did say sorry I have cried we have like had these hugs and these emotional moments but when when I'm sorry is not backed up with a lifetime of changed behavior it means nothing to me and so that has been a consistent theme throughout the rest of my adulthood is after that moment there was continued abuse there was continued emails that she would sent me telling me that I'm cold and callous and how could I have been how did I turn out this way and there would be these oh I love you so much you're so amazing you're so beautiful how did you turn out this way and then you're horrible can you believe what I went through and all the abuse that I endured in my life and up and down and it's like are you not seeing that you did this to me and what I endured because of you and having to grow up not only without a mom but with a mom that's in prison because she was my perpetrator so I think that just showed her level of insanity to me and she doesn't believe that she has a mental illness she thinks that she's perfectly healthy and she's fine and it was a drug and do psychosis and that's how she lives her life and it shows in her behaviors and then the multiple relationships that she has that have turned out catastrophically bad and it's just not yeah it's not it's not healthy for me it's not healthy for my family I will do everything to protect you know my family from that and that's why I had to go back in 2024 and their contact order which I was only able to get for about a year they wouldn't give me any longer so is that the same thing because I'm not familiar with a restraining order yeah just the same look it's just different name kind of yeah yeah yeah for only one year yeah so typically in small towns it like works in your favor if you have the same judges on the docket because they have seen the name they know the case they know what has happened before and that's primarily been a lot of what had happened to me when I got emancipated at 17 I was you know people knew the judge knew who my mom was they knew kind of what I had been through and that worked in my favorite however when I went back for the no contact order we had a new judge on the docket and it was COVID so we had to do court on our phones like I wasn't even able to appear and so that was like my mom's like showtime it was like her if you know an narcissist like they love to be in front of the camera they love to have the spotlight on them and they think that anything that revolves around them yes is like they're I don't know they're they're time to shine and that's exactly what this was at this point she had moved to Idaho I was still living in Washington I was in Port Angeles at the time and it was like her time to show the judge how amazing she was how good she was doing and how unwell she thinks I was she told the judge that I was obsessed with her and then I moved back to her hometown because I wanted to be her which is wild because like you're my mom you made that my hometown like my entire family just how it goes yeah okay it just happened to be there yeah unfortunately my entire family lives there and I'm not just like it's like she totally flipped the script of like projection of everything she feels towards me towards her like she's always been obsessed with me she when she was on house arrest she had a complete room of just my stuff my bedding my everything my pictures there was no pictures of my other siblings it was just me it was like a mekenna shrine and I saw it because I went and visited my grandpa and that's where she was living during house arrest so once she was in prison he just left that room the way it was so you walk in and you're like okay but I'm obsessed with you no it's the other way around but for years like that's her mentality is like it's everybody else so having that experience with the court was really frustrating because I felt like I was pleading like okay she was even trying to say like oh she hasn't she can't even graduate college it's been five years it's like okay well I have to put myself through college I have to pay for everything I have to work because I don't have parents who are helping to support me so yeah yeah it's taking me a little bit longer who was in jail for nine years like that's like yeah oh I'm glad that you got your your um your degree while you were in jail yeah paid for by the taxpayer's money but like no I actually had to pay for my own so it took me a little bit longer and I had to like destiny is yeah oh my god yeah so it's it's things like that where I think I get really nervous as a survivor and I was so nervous for so long to share my story because I was made to feel like I was crazy like I was the one that was something was wrong with me and I think I felt that way from both my mom and my dad and like trying to just figure out life aside from survival and now that I've like finally started to speak out it's like I just hope that other people can see like you're not crazy or not like you aren't defined by the worst thing that's ever happened to you and even if these like crazy things are going on like whatever that looks like you aren't those things and I think that's why I wanted to fight for the no contact order why I wanted to like keep facing her because I wanted to finally speak up and like reclaim my own power like you're so powerless for so long that I wanted to be like you know what I don't care if I'm the only one crying in front of this judge and like I'm deeply affected by this like you are no longer allowed to like hurt me abuse me like attack me anymore And so even though it was only a year, I felt like it was kind of a victory It's like you can say what you want about me, but I'm still not going to back down and like be afraid of you And so yeah, I tried to go back after that year and get it reinstated But I was somehow supposed to serve her and I didn't know where she lived and So I just have let it go null and void at this point, but I think that there was enough Of the point across that like I wasn't going to go down without a fight and like I will protect myself and my family at any cost So I haven't yeah, I've had some like fake accounts reach out to me and like weird things go on and Cyber stalking and things like that that still happened I was walking in my hometown just visiting and She was parked just watching me walk which was crazy and that's when I started to realize like I should never post my location on social media because like that's very real It's just my brain doesn't like work like that. Yeah, my brain's not evil. You shouldn't have to Yeah, you shouldn't have to yeah, it's because of her. Yeah, she psychologically manipulated you and abused you Yes, and physically yeah for so long. Yeah, I get it's it's hard to make your brain do that because you're clearly not like that Yeah, so I just it's this yeah, and I'm that is a victory like that's you finally got validation and she can See that other people believe you and not her yeah, she's liar. Yeah, and yeah, I can imagine how that feels It's just like you know what that's good. It's like you don't need to be in my life anymore Yeah, she just took she's just totally cut off now. Yeah, she's yeah, I have her completely cut off People ask all the time on my social media like do you think she can see this like absolutely she can I sure you can't Like you can only block so many accounts like when you have a following now like I can't That that I don't you can like oh block this person in any accounts that they may create, but you never know So I'm sure that she has seen it You know obviously my family lives in a small town like there's talk of Of things of her not being happy. I had somebody comment on my video That was in prison with her at the time and they reached out and they're like no I heard a completely different story So I know that there are people out there who are still manipulated by her and you still fully believe whatever story She's telling about her being the victim and her being a savior But I'm gonna keep sharing my voice because she's not that and I Can't believe that people like people let children be around like her be around children I think I think that that is the most like absolutely disgusting having a child now like when they place my daughter on my chest, I felt like I finally understood I finally understood that I will never understand like I That protection that you have as a mom that love that you have for your child like I felt Deep love for my sister in protection. I felt deep love and protection for the people around me but like for your own child It makes me even more removed from her and like any of those fears that I had like Oh, I'm scared. I'm gonna be crazy like my mom like I'm scared that like what if this is like passed down or anything All those went away when I felt that feeling for my daughter because I knew I am so far from that person And I will do anything in my being to protect my children and from ever having to be exposed to anything I was and breaking that cycle because I will never I'll never let anything Like that happened to my children. Mm-hmm. I'm so glad that's that's such a relief because yeah, I can't I can't imagine how You just have to think about it all the time and it's like, you know, we all don't want to become our moms Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be right You know what I mean? Yeah, like to the nth degree. Yeah with you and I mean, that's just so wonderful that you're able to experience that now and just know That it's it's interesting at one point in your life Probably you a lot earlier than most people, but you just realize your parents are just people. Yeah And in this case extremely flawed. Yeah, and wrong and it and it's I Imagine it's extremely hard to cope with mm-hmm. I think it's like well that shouldn't have happened So and I mean it seems like you've come to terms with it as much as you can and you're doing your due diligence and going through everything and being in Victim advocate, which is so wonderful because I feel like even if somebody hasn't experienced their parent trying to kill them There are so many aspects of your story that so many people can relate to even I can relate to little bits and pieces of it So it's thank you so much for telling your story because it does make a difference. Yeah, so it's thank you so much for saying that Yeah, saying the whole story. Yeah. Yeah, so I appreciate it and now what are you what are you working on now? Yeah, so I since becoming a mom like I said like I feel like I have a whole new purpose to Share my story and to be an advocate for those like you said so many people even if it hasn't been the exact same story They find themselves in my story and I think that that's kind of just what Surviving trauma or surviving life is all about like we all go through hard seasons and whatever Somebody's trauma is it's their trauma. It's the hardest thing that they've lived through and so that doesn't have to be a Murder victim or like you know a victim of attempted murder or whatever it is like if you've experienced You know a blended family or like you know divorce or you know anything like that You can find yourself in that so that's why I started sharing I just I think stories heal and that's what I want to continue to do on my page And to share also just the hope that you can create a life after trauma You aren't defined by the worst thing that's ever happened to you like we can break the cycle I want to show that with my family and like things finding joy outside of that because when you're stuck in survival for so long like okay Yes, I survived this, but like I also feel like I've still been surviving like my whole adulthood So like how do I find like joy again? Like what do what does that look like? So that's what I've been doing I also started a company called Unbound Legacy and it's just a peril that meets purpose and So that's like one of my one of my hacks that I'm wearing is hard fought. Hallelujah. This is just like my very first small little launch But we're gonna launch a few Drops here in the next couple of weeks, so you'll not look out for that if you go follow Unbound Legacy co and Yeah, just just following along on my story in my journey I have a documentary in process. I can't share much about that, but that's gonna be amazing and I just I hope that it inspires other people to find that courage to share their story as well Yeah, absolutely and just recognize These things too because when you're in it, I feel like it's really hard to recognize it Especially when you're a kid, but even when you're a teenager or in your early 20s or in a toxic relationship or something like that Like what you're saying is just like oh, I actually actually my partner did do that or my mom did does do that It's like okay, that's not good and I actually deserve different and then when people are inside of it It's really hard to see so I think it's extremely helpful just in so many ways Yeah, yeah, and I think there was a stigma for so long even people like in my family of you know Okay, that happened to you, but if you keep talking about it, you're playing the victim It's like no you're a survivor and so we can use our voice for really good and powerful way and just like you said like If we if we don't talk about it and we just shove it under the rug and we pretend like we're not actually healing and even my therapist said like You keep that in your body like it stays trapped in there and your nervous system does wild things when your body holds on to those things and so Yeah, just just talking about it sharing seeing your own patterns and like how trauma manifests itself like even yeah, finding Partners or relationships after trauma like you're gonna seek those things in other people if you don't Identify it and then call it out and and change that so that you don't repeat those patterns and that we can actually Truly break those cycles because that's that's how revival starts That's how we all heal and we don't keep perpetuating that in the in the future So well, I'm so glad that you found somebody that is hopefully your safe space. Yes. Yeah, beautiful daughter. Yeah, and the bonus bonus son Yes, which is so wonderful So thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it and be sure to please go fall over go look at everything she's doing I'll make sure to put everything down the description and on screen and everything Yes, but thank you so much. Yes, of course. Awesome. Thank you so much. Yeah, that was wonderful. Okay, hopefully I didn't ping pong too much. No