EP #123: The Joy in Travel, Exploration, and Creative Writing with Jo Piazza, Award-Winning Journalist, Best-Selling Author, and Podcast Host

(gentle music) Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host, Stella Stuffinopoulos, and this week I am so excited to have Joe Piazza on the show. She's a best-selling author, podcast creator, and award-winning journalist. Her work's been featured in the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, New York Magazine, Marie Claire, Glamour, and many other publications. And when we got connected, I was so excited to learn about her most recent book called The Sicilian Inheritance, which is coming out in April of this year, and it's a murder mystery novel that takes place in Sicily and that's based loosely on her own family history. So in this episode, Joe shares the inspiration for writing The Sicilian Inheritance, how it's drawn from her own personal stories, her family stories, and as someone who is a writer and is written many books, Joe and I connect over our shared passion for writing, how I'm minored in creative writing in school, how writing can be a really cathartic and therapeutic process, how it impacts her mental health, and then given her background as a travel journalist, we talk about our shared love for travel, and the joy in traveling and how being a world traveler and getting to experience different places, different cultures, different environments can greatly impact your well-being. And of course, this wouldn't be an episode for the Everyday Endorphins podcast if I didn't ask Joe what brings her endorphins, enjoy every day, so stay tuned to learn more. I had such a fun time getting to sit down with Joe to record this interview, so really excited for you all to listen to this episode. But before we dive into our conversation, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer, and make sure to follow Everyday Endorphins on Instagram, TikTok, which may be banned, so it may not be on TikTok anymore. We'll see about what goes on in the news in the next few months. But make sure to follow Everyday Endorphins across all social media to stay up to date with episodes, podcast events, and more. - Hi, Joe, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. - Hi, thanks for having me. - Very excited to be here. (laughs) - I was so thrilled when we got connected initially, 'cause it's always exciting for me to get to meet more people who are in the journalism field. I feel like it kind of like speaks to my inner child in a way, 'cause at once upon a time I wanted to pursue journalism, and I never actually did in a traditional sense, so it always excites me to get to speak with people who come from a writing and creative background. - Oh, I love it too. And I mean, also aren't we all journalists at this point? Like, isn't everyone just a journalist? The traditional media field has blown up and exploded in the past 10 years, so we're all doing the work of reporting these days. - That's a good point. Things have shifted for sure in our environment, and I think the way people even just engage with social media too, it's become this platform for advocacy, Instagram, for better or for worse. And I think you can see it both ways. - Totally, totally. - Yeah, well, we're not here to talk about Instagram necessarily, although that could be a very interesting conversation. I wanna start off by having you share a bit more about yourself and your background, and just kind of share with my listeners how you came into the field of journalism and writing and speaking. - Yeah, absolutely. So I was a very traditional journalist. I worked at my college newspaper back in the Stone Age when I was at Penn, and then I went to Columbia Journalism School. I interned at the New York Times. I was a staff writer at the New York Daily News and a gossip columnist in the 2000s, which was the most fun job you could possibly have in the 2000s, and really taught me to be a great reporter because I can elbow my way into any situation in the world pretty much. And also sneak in pretty much anywhere. And then I became a political journalist, travel journalist. I did all of the things digital, moved into social, and really switched into writing books and podcasts about 10 years ago. And those are my main focus now. I still sometimes do freelance, a magazine writing, but it's mostly making podcasts. I've written 12 books in the past 12 years, and my new one, The Sicilian Inheritance, which is a murder mystery novel, is coming out April 2nd. And it's being called The Book of the Summer by some people, and I'm very excited about it. I am excited about it because we've spoke about this, you know, my own experience going to Sicily, which we can totally dive into. But before we talk a little bit about The Sicilian Inheritance, I want to go back to what you said about 12 books in 12 years. That's like a book a year on average. How genuinely how did you do it? I mean, honestly, I'm a fast writer, and I never discount that. And it's because I was a daily newspaper reporter from very early on in my career. And when you have to write on deadline every single day, you just get it done. I don't get writer's block, or if I am having a bad writing day, I don't let myself not get my butt in the seat and write. So I'm very fast. Am I the greatest writer on the planet? Probably not. And you know what? That is also OK. I think that perfection is the enemy of getting things done. And I think my books are very good and enjoyable and fun, and they may not be literary masterpieces, but those are usually boring anyway. So I'm fast. I also know that I have a crazy work ethic. I will sit down and write every single day. And I haven't run out of ideas yet. For better or worse, I write about things that fascinate me. So I'm not writing the same book every year. In fact, everything has been so completely different. I drive my agent insane, but I write what I like. And I think the thread that ties all of my book projects together is that they're all about women's stories, women living in the world, the challenges that we face as ambitious women who want agency over our lives. And that connects all of these books. There just may not be a section in the bookstore for that which there should be. Well, I completely resonate with that sentiment, too. And you mentioned, OK, I'm a fast writer, but maybe I'm not the greatest writer of all time. There's something definitely to be said about just sitting down to start something. The hardest part, usually, about making a change or executing on something is just getting started. So I think that's actually a really good piece of advice. Maybe we're even looking to share advice just now. But in general in life, if you're trying to do something or do something new or make a change, the hardest part is just starting. And you kind of just have to start and not let those fears-- like, oh, I'm not going to be the best writer, or this is going to sound horrible. Like, you can't really let that get in your way. And this can apply to everything in life, especially within health and wellness. I actually minored in creative writing. I don't know if we talked about this. We didn't talk about this, no. Yeah, I studied creative writing in school through a minor. And I have always loved to write. I mean, I used to journal a lot. And then when I was in college, I kind of took a focus on creative nonfiction, specifically memoir. And I also found that I was writing what I knew. And it was my own lived experience. I also wrote not a book, but a short essay on my time in Sicily. And for me, it was the most cathartic thing to do. I mean, even now, podcasting is different. And you can relate to this because you have your own podcast, because it's like audio journalism. And you're speaking your mind. But it's a whole different mechanism by which you get the thoughts in your head down on paper. And the way you express yourself through written word is so different than through conversation or through a verbal communication. And something that I found to be really fulfilling as of the past few months is incorporating more of an editorial voice and editorial content into my podcast and into the Everyday Endorphins brand through my sub-stack and through writing about things that I'm seeing. And so there really is this connection, I think, between writing in general and feeling fulfilled in wanting to express something that's like been urking you or something that you're really passionate about. There's definitely a connection between, I think, good work and having that be coming from something that you know and that you're well versed in. Journalism has changed. It's evolved in so many ways. I now also have a sub-stack. I write a lot on social media, which I do consider to be writing and I find writing its work. So it's both work and it is also incredibly cathartic. And I write my way out of anxiety a lot of times. When I am anxious, when I don't understand something in the world, I typically report and write to figure it out and to feel safer and to kind of fix my anxiety riddled brain, I think even if you're not a professional writer, just getting words out, whether that is in audio or journaling, I think that is definitely a way to preserve your well-being in a lot of ways. Absolutely. It's a way kind of to like clear your mind. And also writing, it forces you to be present. Like you can't be on your phone and also write at the same time. Like you can't look at two things at once. So the act of writing in and of itself forces someone to actually sit down, be still, and slow down in a way. You mentioned you're a fast writer, but there has to be some sort of slowness too to be able to get the thoughts from your head onto paper. Absolutely. I do think we. I have so much to say about how sped up our brains are now because of our phones, because of social media, because of email, because we have this device that is in our hand so much. But in order to get coherent thoughts out, you do have to sit down and slow down. And I don't think that you can overestimate the benefit of that, because it does force us to have a certain amount of mindfulness in order to get words down on a page. Do you have a specific practice or like ritual that you do when you sit down to write? Even if you mentioned that you don't really get writer's block, you just fort yourself to sit down and start writing. But is there maybe a certain environment that you like to set yourself up in, whether it's like lighting a candle or putting your phone out of your room? Like how do you get in that zone to sit down and start writing? Yeah, such a great question. Because I was working in a newsroom, and also I was a reporter on the go so often, I'm very good at just sitting down and writing. And I was at just sitting down and getting started, right? Like I used to when I was doing celebrity and political journalism and it's funny because they essentially became the same thing eventually. But I would be on the road covering an event and sit on the floor of a bathroom and type things out on my blackberry. And that's how old I am. I had a blackberry. I miss my blackberry. There was something very satisfying about the click of that keyboard. And I wish they'd bring the blackberry back. And I love this ability to just like sit and go. That has served me very well in my current life where I have three children under the age of seven and very limited time. So I mean, even today, right? I was texting you being like the internet is broken. I don't know what's happening. But the second I get it fixed, I'm just sit down and you go, go, go, go. I try my best to sit down, have a moment of mindfulness and think, what can I do to make this moment just slightly better, slightly more enjoyable. I could work if I don't, but you'll be happier at the end of the day if you do. And so I will sit down, take that moment and be like, okay, you know what? I'm going to like the candle or look, look, I've got my got my little sage right here. You know, like my sage or I'm going to put on a really nice jazz album or some 90s riot girl rock. I just, and it's just one thing and it takes 30 seconds, but that 30 seconds does set the tenor for the day. Yeah, something that I've been thinking about is how I miss being a student and I miss learning for the sake of just learning for fun and not having it measure up to like your performance, I guess, in a corporate setting or just being in a job. I remember one of the most satisfying feelings in college would be going to my favorite coffee shop off campus, sitting down with my laptop and writing for specifically my creative nonfiction classes. I mean, it was even my philosophy classes because I also studied philosophy, which that challenged my brain in so many different ways than writing about yourself does, but just getting in that environment and really like kind of tapping into that flow state and focusing is one of the best feelings ever and it's hard to do A, when you're working and you don't have a lot of time and your entire days are revolved around like a high stress working environment, but then be living in a city like New York that is so overwhelming, so overstimulating. It's really hard to create those pockets of quiet and calmness. And so yeah, I've just been reflecting on that recently and something that you mentioned kind of is bringing that up for me right now. Life is stressful, right? But I do think that the best thing we can do for ourselves is to just like step back and say, OK, I can make this a little bit easier and better, better for me right now. And again, my life is crazy, busy right now. I did not expect to have so many children so quickly. I have a palaton in my room. I've had it since the pandemic. And instead of being like, you have to do 45 minutes of like a sweaty hardcore workout. I will take 10 minutes and do a 10 minute workout in between interviews. And I feel better every single time. I mean, I think it's the advice that I give about my writing, you know, do not let perfection be the enemy of done. I take into other aspects of my life, like workout. You know, you don't have to do 45 minutes in order to get a workout in 10 minutes is great. And you feel amazing afterwards. And I've set it up so that I mean, it's just right there. I'm just staring at it right now. Does my bedroom look beautiful in Instagram perfect? Nope. Do I care? Nope. I love that. It's really like the small things every day just carving out a little bit of time. I also want to talk a little bit more about your experience as a travel writer. So I know we spoke about this on the phone, you know, a few weeks ago, and we both kind of shared our own, you know, mutual interest and passion for traveling and exploration and how that impacts our mental wellbeing. So can you first start off by sharing how you got into travel writing specifically? Yeah. Yeah. Getting into travel writing was an accident. And people that want to do travel writing now ask me for advice. And I'm like, oh, I don't know. I don't know how the world works now. But I started doing some travel pieces for the New York Daily News. They would send me on trips that like other people couldn't go on. So all of a sudden I found myself in Turkey covering Istanbul Fashion Week with a bunch of Turkish basketball players. It was crazy. Or covering the Christmas markets in Al-Zas in France. And so I got kind of this roster of travel journalism stories. And I was also very good at building editorial platforms. So I had moved from newspapers into magazines into digital and Yahoo. God bless them. The saddest media company of all time had just gotten this massive infusion of cash from investing in the Chinese version of Amazon. So much money. So much money. And they thought that they would resurrect themselves with digital magazines on fashion, health, food, travel. So they hired very fancy editors and that very fancy editor hired me to be her number two and build Yahoo travel. I knew for a fact that Yahoo was not going to be around that long. But I also knew that they were going to spend a ton of money and let me travel all over the world. And I think that is great advice. I do not have to think about the entire lifetime of your career. Is this job going to be great for two or three years and give you what you need in the moment. And at that moment, I think I was 31. And I wanted to travel. I wanted to be out there. I also wanted to get married and was kind of convinced I would meet my husband on one of these trips. And I went to 32 countries in about two and a half years. I did meet my husband on one of those trips on a boat in the Galapagos Islands. We spent our honeymoon climbing Mount Kilimanjaro. I wrote a book about it about traveling around the world getting marriage advice, which became how to be married, which then became my first podcast committed. And Yahoo imploded fantastically like it just failed so freaking bad. But it gave me exactly what I needed in the moment and completely changed my life. There is such a magic in traveling and I have yet to find a way to articulate exactly what it is. Maybe it's that feeling of being disconnected from reality and like your life as you know it or maybe it's just the joy of getting to explore new places. I mean, maybe it's both or and more to you, right? I also find like the most random things will happen to me when I'm on vacation or if I'm solo traveling. And it's kind of crazy. You met your husband on one of your trips. He was in the Galapagos on a boat, which is nuts. Another one of our editors was supposed to go her daughter got sick and got the flu. She couldn't go. I went at the last minute. It was a fully paid for 10 day boat trip through the Galapagos Islands. And I got there and Nick was on the boat. And I was covering everything about the Galapagos. He was running his own publication about sustainability. So he was writing about sustainability in the Galapagos. And that's it. I mean, we like hooked up the last day of the trip and then had a date in Ecuador when we got back and had another date three weeks later in Joshua tree and gotten engaged three months later, which is kind of crazy. Oh my goodness. I know. And we've been married almost. We've been together nine years now and we have three kids. Wow. So it really goes to show you never know how your life is going to turn out. You legit never know what's going to happen. Yes. And I will tell you, like I was so when I met Nick, I was so over dating. I had dated every guy in New York City, like every bad banker dude. It's giving sex in the city. I mean, I really feel like my life was carrying sex in the city, but without like the wonderful clothes because who could afford it. But although I looked good, I looked really good. But like, dated every bad guy who didn't want to be dating me. They wanted to be dating models that part of sex in the city was so freaking true. And New York City happens to be filled not just with like models, but with like really smart models. You're like, oh, she's just pretty and you're like, oh, no, she also went to Harvard. Fuck. But I was really depressed and thought I would never meet the people. the right person and just kept moving and travel really did help with my depression and with my anxiety. And it has for my entire life. I think it's not just the movement. It's the fact that hard things happen when you travel, but you can usually figure it out. And so that gives you kind of an endorphin boost of like, "Oh, okay. I'm a capable human being in the world." And also experiencing the newness and richness of a place every time that I've felt low and anxious, traveling has helped me get out of it, including the three times that I had postpartum anxiety after all of my kids. That's a good point you mentioned that traveling will show you that you can kind of persist through difficult challenges or things that come up that you weren't anticipating. So I have a little anecdote to share. I, when I graduated from college, I went to Bali and I stayed there for a month and a half and I did a yoga teacher training program and I decided to go alone. I like graduated school, didn't even fly home from St. Louis. I once straight to Indonesia with like a stop in California for like a night. And this was during the time where it was 2021, so it wasn't like really COVID, but I actually needed to get a visa to go to Indonesia where previously Americans did not need visas to go. So there was a mandated quarantine in Jakarta for seven days before I could go to Bali. So picture this, I just graduated, I just had my ceremony, sing goodbye to all my friends, and now I'm stuck in a hotel room for seven days and I like don't know anyone and I'm in a completely foreign place. And I remember when I landed in Jakarta, it was like four in the morning, I was like transported into some van, it was pitch black by these like Indonesian police officers and they took my passport from me and I had no idea if I was going to get it back. They wouldn't really communicate that to me. Like of course they had to give it back, but I remember being so like stressed because I was being just, it felt like I was being abducted and like, right, you're like, oh my gosh, am I in that Claire Danes movie? Yes, literally. You're like, I am, I am in that Claire Danes movie. Yes. I just realized like I can't really freak out. Like they're going to take my passport, they're going to take my passport. I'm going to get in the truck, I'm going to get in the truck and then I'm going to go to the hotel and at least there will be Wi-Fi there. And I can binge watch modern family and like call my parents or something. So I guess the point being like that was a really uncomfortable moment for me and that was the start of the trip. And then the weekend quarantine was really difficult too because I was dealing with severe jet lag. But then also I just felt very lonely and isolated and then I finally made my way to Bali and the program was fantastic. And of course, conveniently right when the 200 hour yoga teacher training program finished, I was like really intent on planning a week or two of traveling within Bali, going to neighboring islands. I had made friends. I wanted to do my own thing. And there was some holiday that happened like around that time. And so there was like an influx of germs and COVID got quote unquote bad again in Indonesia. So they wanted to lock down. So I couldn't do anything. And I had an 8 p.m. curfew every night. I didn't want to risk getting on a little ferry to an nearby island and not being able to get back. And so basically I remember when I found out that we were in lockdown, I was so stressed because I thought that I wouldn't be able to make it back to the States. And I didn't know if I should stay or if I should go and it was very uncomfortable because it reminded me of when I went abroad in 2020. And all of a sudden it's like COVID actually hit and I was sent home. So anyways, very long story. But the point I'm making is that a really amazing trip in my life had all these inflection points of actual like very difficult moments of discomfort and just being in a completely new environment. But I think it it it showed me like you can be fine with whatever life throws at you. Like you can overcome things that are completely foreign to you. And I think it adds like a layer of resilience in life for sure. Yeah, no, it absolutely does. And I genuinely believe that I love that you said the word resilience because I think that travel does build our resilience in a really beautiful way. I feel more capable in my everyday life and able to juggle things and multitask because I think I've traveled so much and I get asked a lot why I travel so much with my kids. They're so little will they remember it. I took them to Sicily last summer when I was finishing my book, The Sicilian Inheritance. And I was actually interviewed for the Wall Street Journal about this. And there's so much that we get out of travel that are not direct memories. And those things will be ingrained in them from a very early age, you know, the like, you know, moving to new places, experiencing new cultures, doing difficult things. And I think that resilience is a muscle that you cannot start to build too early in your children. That's such a good point. You know, it's funny because I grew up traveling a lot with my family and I don't have a ton of memory of that time. I think I kind of blacked out everything before the age of like 11 or 12. Like I just don't remember. As people do, yes. And I used to always think, oh, like why did we do all these trips in Europe when I was like six and I can't remember? Okay. That's kind of obnoxious when I think about it now, but we just have the like privilege and fortune to be able to go and travel to those places as a kid. Like I love what you said, there's so much that you get out of travel that doesn't come from direct memory. Because I do think that those experiences really did shape me. And I want to talk about the Sicilian Inheritance because this is a great segue. You mentioned that you were traveling in Sicily with your kids. So let's talk about it. Your book's coming out in April, April second. April second. Yes. Yes, it is. It is. Yeah. And yeah, it took the kids to Sicily. I finished all of the copy editing and like added my final details for the book while we were there. I started doing a companion podcast also called the Sicilian Inheritance, which will launch in March. The book is loosely based on the murder of my great, great grandmother, Lorenza, in Sicily. And the book is fiction. I didn't really want to know anything about the real story. I just wanted to write about what it was like to be a woman left alone when your husband comes to America. And then we have a modern day woman in the story who goes back to Sicily to try to unravel the mystery, to try to claim her family's ancestral land. And she also eats a lot of delicious food and has like some like, you know, steamy adventures with a sexy local. But I mean, it's really about women's ambition and how we move around the world and how we travel in the world. And after I finished the book, the novel, I wanted to find out about Lorenza, my great, great grandmother's real life because my family has talked about for a long time. Oh, she was murdered in Sicily. But no one knows anything about her. And I think that that is a shame. I think that women often get lost in the stories. Other people want to believe about them. So I'm doing a podcast that's kind of true crime. A Jason, it's white Lotus meets only murders in the building where I try to solve her actual murder and we're getting closer and closer every day. I'm going back to Sicily in two weeks actually to try to finish it up. And she's in my head all the time. I mean, I had a dream about her last night. It was very intense. And the book is so much fun. Like I said, people are calling it the book of the summer. Early readers have said it's the one book that has gotten them out of their reading slump. And it's just fun. I wanted to write a book that it's smart. It talks about the importance of women's agency and taking on the patriarchy, but not in a way that's going to depress the shit out of you. You will go literally go on an adventure to Sicily in the Sicilian inheritance. And that's what I wanted. I think people just want to escape from our regular lives right now. And that's what I'm trying to deliver with this. I love how the book itself is fiction, but it stems from something that's very personal and meaningful to you. And so, you know, you're actually now as you're trying to kind of uncover the actual murder mystery of your great, great grandmother. It's my great, great. Yeah. In the book, it's a great grandmother because it was just too many greats. Great, great, great grandmother. I'm kidding. It's fantastic that like even though it's fiction, it still pulls from something personal and meaningful for you. And now you're kind of on this quest to better, you know, know your great, great grandmother. Great, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. My curiosity, do you have a tie to Sicily? Like did you grow up visiting Sicily when you were younger? Where does the significance for Sicily, like kind of come into play in your life? My family is originally from Sicily and my dad was obsessed with Sicily and learning stories about Sicily. We didn't go there as a family until I was in my very early 20s right after I graduated college. You know, since then I've been back about a dozen times and my whole family is very passionate about Sicily. A bunch of my cousins and uncles want to retire there. I'm not currently working on getting my Italian citizenship, which is interesting. The process is easier because I've been digging up all of these documents for the podcast and because I'm constantly in touch with the intense Sicilian bureaucracy to find births, certificates and death certificates. But yeah, Sicily has become this big part of my family's identity hilariously in a lot of ways because my dad was only half Sicilian, okay? Like the other half was Irish. He came from an Italian Irish family, but like that man never celebrated a St. Patrick's Day, like not once. Okay, it was all Sicily all the time. And he passed eight years ago and writing this book and kind of solving this family murder mystery that he was so interested in has become a way to grieve him I think properly because he passed away when I was pregnant with my first baby. I was still newly married. I was trying to find my way as an adult and I don't think that I properly grieved for him and this has allowed me to do that. That's a really hard thing to experience the death of someone in your family, your father while you're bringing life to someone else like your child. How can you properly grieve him during that time period? - I don't think you can. That's the thing. I think that grieving is very difficult during that period and I didn't do it properly. I was constantly on the go and now I'm getting a chance to and I'm very grateful for that. - Yeah, I mean it ties back to what we were saying earlier how writing, especially from what you know is it's one of the most cathartic things to do and what's also really beautiful about that for the process of writing and then sharing your creation to the world is that people who read it will have completely different interpretations or it'll impact their lives in wildly different ways and everything that you're doing is simply just putting your work out there and the way that it's received is really just such a wide variety across different people and I think that's one of the other beauties of writing is that one way that you communicate can take different form for different people if that makes any sense. - Totally, totally. And I think that people, you know, you need to reach different kinds of people in different ways too. I do post a lot on social media and I do make my podcast under the influence and I reach a lot of new mothers who don't have time to sit down and read books, right? They're like, I can listen to a podcast while I'm breastfeeding and you have to think about who your audience is and how to reach them where they are at. - Yeah, absolutely. - Let's talk about your podcast also. I wanna make sure we chat about that as well. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. - About your podcast and what inspired you to start having a podcast, it's wildly different. Like we talked about from writing and writing books. So can you share maybe a little bit more about your inspiration for diving into podcasting? - I started podcasting, oh my gosh, it's been eight years now. And I started with my show, "Committed," which was about marriage and, you know, the nitty gritty of real marriages. But we talked to people like an astronaut and his wife about how his wife helped him get to space. We talked to a couple who were blown up together in the Boston Marathon and how their marriage helped them to survive and thrive. And we did 150 episodes, 160 episodes of that podcast. And I just relaunched it yesterday. Actually, we just put out a new episode of "Committed" for the first time in three years. And I'll be doing two of those a month. And then I started the podcast under the influence when I had my second baby and she didn't sleep. And I was on Instagram all the time and was being served influencers, which honestly did not serve me. And it was exhausting. And I wanted to learn more about the influencing world. So I started reporting on it and realized there was a hunger for, you know, knowledge about the influencing world. And especially for new mothers. And now we're almost at 100 episodes of "Under the Influence." So yeah, I love podcasting because I think that audio is such an intimate platform. And I just get to have these really, really great conversations with people that you wouldn't otherwise have. And it's also something people can listen to while they multitask. And so you can touch your listeners in a way that I don't think print journalism can. Totally. I mean, I listen to podcasts when I'm walking from point A to point B or I'm cleaning around the apartment or even sometimes when I work out, there's like a wide variety of things and activities that I'm doing that I think are conducive to just tuning in. And it is a really intimate platform. When I meet people for the first time and I tell them that I have a podcast, like after we've had, you know, some sort of conversation and then it comes up at the end of the conversation. My hope is that after we converse and just chat in person, if they were to go listen to my podcast, they would feel as if I had just done it recording with them. Like it's the same kind of tone, you know, dialogue conversation, like trying to bring that sense of authenticity into the interviews. And I think when it's just voice, there is that level of intimacy that can be achieved in a way that writing maybe you don't have, like when you're actually listening to someone guide a conversation. Congrats on also relaunching your podcast too. I'm excited about relaunching committed. People loved the podcast and we stopped making it with I Heart Media and I just kind of had this aha moment. I'm like, oh, I can do it myself and I can. And I'm just so excited about putting it back in the world again. Yeah, well, everyone who's listening today definitely go tune in to both of your podcast show. And, you know, order the Sicilian inheritance, I'm really excited to grab a copy for myself and definitely I'm excited for a fantastic read for the summer and just picturing myself back and Sicily when I was there many years ago and just lounging by the beach. But as we wrap today, Joe, again, I wanted to thank you for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. It's been such a pleasure having you here. The one question that I want to leave you with that I ask every guest on the podcast is what is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day. I have to say putting away my phone and spending direct one-on-one time with each of my kids really just gives me that blast of endorphins. But then also getting my butt outside and I try to take a walk first thing in the morning. And again, it's not like you have to go walk for a mile. I just try to get outside and even walk around the block and get sunshine in my face. And I think that that is a beautiful way to start your day with getting that endorphin boost and also that sunshine that you need. And I try to do that before I touch my phone because I'm a big advocate of us trying to be more mindful about our habits with social media and phone use. And that's one way I try to do that. - I couldn't agree more. I actually bought the hat alarm clock and I've been using it as a way to not be on my phone in the morning, like having a separate alarm clock that wakes me up to something that mimics natural light. And it's been a game for myself now. Like how long can I go in the morning without actually looking at my phone? And definitely getting outside and getting some actual sunlight helps with that for sure. So I resonate with your response. - You know, I think about all the time, again, because I come from the stone ages. But I didn't use to check my email until I got to my office which was typically around 9.30 in the morning. I didn't wake up and check my email in my apartment in the morning. I woke up, I got dressed, I did my getting ready things. You know, sometimes I would watch the today show or whatever and then I would walk to the subway 'cause I lived in New York or take a taxi and get to the office and have a coffee. And so I would be awake for two and a half hours without checking email. That worked for the majority of humanity for a long fucking time. Like there's no reason that we need to be on the phone first thing in the morning. - Let's bring that back and let's bring back blackberries in moral of the story. - Totally, totally a fucking love of blackberry. - I love this conversation. This brought me so much joy. - Me as well. What a wonderful way to start off a Thursday morning. Thank you so much, Joe. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. (upbeat music) - Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever platform you prefer. You can also follow along the Everyday Endorphins Instagram account to stay up to date with episodes, future events, and all things related to mental health, well-being and happiness. Don't forget to keep spreading endorphins and find things in life that bring you joy every day. Until next time. (upbeat music)