Ep 12: The Sit Down With Eric

Hank joined BJ's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30. "I coach football." Now, Coach Hank saves up to 25% off gross restore prices, 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks, and that's just pregame. He knows teamwork, and BJ's knows savings. This is your home coach, home of the save. Join for just $20 at bj's.com/maskete and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon, limited time offer, new members only. BJ's home of the save. The following episode contains graphic and explicit content. Viewer discretion is advised. So I was released from Thurson County. Everybody thought I was getting out. I didn't think so. I didn't have that feeling in my gut. True enough. Yeah, they just slapped more cuffs on me and took me outside and I noticed some people in playing clothes. You know, standing at the desk, you know, it's like they didn't actually belong there. Turns out I was right. They took me out to a Ford focus or something like that. They put their cuffs on me, which are a lot nicer than their state cuffs. Thurson County. They're actually oval instead of so they fit your legs like that. It's still like that. I didn't say a word on the ride up there. Didn't actually know where I was going. I guess I was being charged with weapons charges. All right. Because they thought that was a short barrel. But it was a pistol or shotgun. It was a pistol. Yeah, they didn't have anything right. It was ridiculous. What I was told was that they wanted to hold on to me for longer time just to do what they had to do. Isn't that strange? I mean, they held me for how many days and didn't convict me of anything. Where's buddy? How do you know about buddy? Taya, I know a lot of stuff. Eric? I know about buddy. I know a lot of stuff. Where's buddy? Back there? Yes. But he's long gone. Yeah. How do you know about that? I told you he knows everything. That's my job. Oh, that's what I got from Dave, buddy. Buddy? Yeah. Wow. ♪ She's a role like a play ♪ ♪ Such a place that I'd give up on ♪ ♪ Destroying goals, the fairly smooths ♪ ♪ But if no rock can stop me from getting through ♪ ♪ If you waited me, the other won't change ♪ ♪ Saying how do we spot you ♪ ♪ If you're thinking standing up below ♪ ♪ But the world must be here ♪ Hey, guys. You just heard a piece of my conversation with Eric Roberts. Now, before I dive into that, I want to address a few things with the conversation I had with Aaron Huntley. So one of the things that stuck out to me about my conversation with Aaron is that he doesn't remember what his alibi was on March 6, 2009 when he was questioned by Thurston County. But now, I have a case file. I had the chance to sit down with Aaron to discuss what his alibi was. And before I can get three to five words out, he knew exactly and remembered what had happened during that weekend of March 6, 2009. Apparently, Aaron had a girlfriend who had flown into town. And on March 6, around 9 a.m., Aaron left work to go to the Seattle Airport at 10 a.m. to pick up his girlfriend who was flying into town. When Thurston County got aware of this information, they asked Aaron what his whereabouts were for that entire weekend, asking him if he had ever left his girlfriend or if he can provide proof of this purchase of ticket, which it all happened. So it checks out. Aaron had an alibi. He was with this girlfriend in the entire weekend. Now, I told you at the end of episode 11 that I was about three-fourths of the way through my conversation with Aaron. Now, I didn't foresee having a four-and-a-half hour conversation with Aaron. And I now feel the additional recording of my conversation with Aaron is necessary at this point. So we're going to fast forward to the conversation ahead with Aaron. Now, I want to explain to you about everything that happened or transpired up into the point of having this conversation with Aaron. I got a tip that Aaron was at a residence up in Edmonds in Washington State. I drove up to this house, knocked on the door, no one answered, rang the doorbell, no one responded. So I left the scene. I drove back, obviously I was extremely frustrated. Later on that night while I was sitting in my hotel room, I get a message from a listener. They told me that they had just spotted Aaron and even had a short, brief conversation with him. So the next day, I made a trip out to Eric's house. During my first trip to the house up in Edmonds where Eric was supposedly staying at, I went alone. During the second trip, I took a second individual with me. Now, he's been supportive since day one of my podcast. His name is Mayor Wayne for Nier. So at times during my conversation with Aaron, you're going to hear Wayne talk or ask questions. So to kind of set the scene for you guys, I showed up to Eric's house. He has a gate so I had to get out of my car to walk up to his front door step. Now, as I'm approaching his front door, there's a porch that you have to walk up to first and it kind of dog legs to the left to the front door. As I was walking towards his front door, I immediately noticed that there was a window to the left and it was open. The screen was on and as I'm looking through it, I immediately noticed that there was a human on the other side staring right at me. It was Eric. Naturally, I just called out his name. His response, "What do you want? Who are you?" I introduced myself and explained to him who I was and that I wanted to speak with him. It was an uncomfortable maybe five to ten seconds before he decided to go to the front door. Once he came out to the front porch, I sent my hand out to shake his hand. Again, another uncomfortable five seconds before he responded. Eric then walked us back to the front porch steps, sat down and started to talk about why I was there. Now, I've interviewed a lot of people, but to say that Eric was the most challenging individual to get to talk to me, again, would be an understatement. He was very, very reluctant. It said to me, "My attorney's advised that I don't talk to anybody about this. My response was, well, you don't have an attorney. You're not being prosecuted, are you? After Wayne and I convinced him enough to have this conversation or interview to set the record straight, he said to me, "Have you been to my property?" And I said, "No, I've been to it, but I haven't been on it." His response, "I want to take a walk." We followed Eric inside his house where he put his shoes on. Then he let us back to his backyard to the fire pit. Now, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, "This cannot be happening." If you recall, Eric told Detective Mickey Hamilton when he first confessed to the murder of Nancy Morier, "Do you want to take a walk?" And took him right back to the fire pit and said, "I don't want to incriminate myself any further, but if I were to get rid of a body and my property, that's where I would do it." Now, that's going to be where we start our conversation. One thing I do want to warn you guys about this conversation is that since Eric wanted to have this conversation outside, so a quick shout out to your resident recording for helping me with this, you're going to hear a lot of wind or even when Eric is picking apart a pine cone. All I ask is that you're understanding about the circumstances of the situation that we were in in order for me to have this conversation with Eric. During my conversation with Eric, it kind of goes in circles at times. So I'm going to do my best to explain to you about what's happening. Now, Eric's first words to me about the phone call and what had happened was that he had made a phone call to Therson County before confessing to the murder of Nancy Morier. You said to me that you made a call before the one about Nancy Morier. What was that phone call about? Here's what I remember is that I saw a guy walking down my road. George your house from your driveway. Right down the driveway. Okay. And the dog even saw the guy. I mean, the dog, that's what alert me was his dog, popped up and I was like, "Hmm, Decker, what's going on?" And I see and then somebody's gone. And I sat there and I was like, "Hmm, what do I do?" "You know, I'm not here." "Can you even give an idea what this person looks like?" "Height, weight, big, small, clothes, all in black, about at least six foot, bigger than me." "Skin color?" "No, didn't see any of that. It just happened so quickly." "Happen so quickly." "Shirt, jacket, sweater, folding all black." "Fully clothed." "Sfarcus, I tell, fully clothed." "I sat there." there for a long time, and I was like, okay, what do I do? And the last, I mean, I was like, God damn it. You know, who's, who's not probably, I mean, I don't even know where that saw came from. See this saw? I don't even know where that came from. So I, I said, well, I said to myself, well, do I grab a gun? And I thought, that's pretty stupid. Why? Why? Yeah, he's on your property. You got guns, you have the right to defend yourself. Yeah, but I couldn't shoot somebody. Why have the guns? I don't have guns anymore. I used to participate in that. I used to enjoy that, but I don't really, I don't like it anymore. So this guy, you saw him, you called 911, that was the first call? Yep, take me through that call, what do you remember? Well, now I know him as Detective Hamilton, or something like that, and we walk back here. We stood right behind those, the stuff right there. And I said, well, I mean, there's no where or else for him to go, except for in the field. And blah, blah, blah. You guys probably already know this. But they were like, well, that's an impressive fire pit. And I was like, yeah. Let me reverse it real quick, because that first phone call was about a guy who was on your property. Making Hamilton didn't respond to that call about the first call, right? I don't know. You should be on Therson County's records that you made that first call. You know, I really don't know. It seems like it was at the same time or one moment after the next. I really don't know. I mean, that's what I told him. And that's the hardest thing that if you've ever been into a investigation, it's like the worst thing to tell them is that you don't know. So second phone call is made. You were on the record saying you wanted to call in because you wanted to confess to the murder of Nancy Moria. You had killed her. They asked who it was that you killed. And that you said it was Nancy Moria, and that you didn't want to carry this weight any longer. This is a kill. So you eventually then say that you wanted to hold off on talking until local authorities were here. And they did come, and you're waiting for them on the front porch. I was sitting on the front porch when they showed up. I didn't remember that. But I don't remember ever confessing to anything. They have you on record saying I killed Nancy Moria, right? I mean, you know that they have that. In your words saying that. So they've played for me. I just have no recollection of that. I don't know what to think of that. First of all, I had nothing to do with her disappearance. I told the detectives that. You told the detectives that the next day on July 10th, because July 9th was the phone call. That was the second day. Yeah, July 10th. No, that was the day afterwards. That was two days afterwards. OK. Well, I know on July 9th, you had called in for the confession. And then on July 10th, you recanted your confession the next day. For some reason, it seems like it's 11th or the 10th. No, sorry, the 11th, you're right, the 11th. So you recanted the confession. I mean, you understand that the testimony that you gave pretty much lined up with how Nancy left her house. She didn't have any kind of altercation with anybody. She didn't struggle in a fight with anybody. She willingly went with somebody somewhere. And your position was we had a relationship. It wasn't a dating one. It was a sexual one. And that's all it was. No, I've never had sex with Nancy more. I never even thought about her in that way. It was as I will commonly say, if it was zero to the left, I mean, my nephew's up with her. And I don't have any, you know, it's like I wouldn't have anything to do with her. It's like, it didn't even come to mind for me. What kind of relationship did you have with her? Nothing. Other than she's obviously your neighbor, you say hi to her, you work at the same spot, you guys run past each other quite often. And she acknowledges you and you guys wave at least, right? You guys wave, we don't necessarily, you know, acknowledgement, meaning a head nod or something like that or a little wave, but then nothing. I don't remember actually seeing her very often, other than I found it odd that she was dropping off her kids to the school bus, but she didn't actually live there. And I kind of, when I found that out, I was like, oh, wow, she drives all the way in from where she lives. And that time frame that you're talking about, she had moved out of her house probably about a year and a half before that. So do you recall her coming back to the house to drop the kids off near the time of her disappearance like a month or two months or I don't recall exact time, but I know that she was there at the end of the road quite frequently. Let's go back to the day of, you know, you're sitting on the porch, they come, you're obviously starting to talk about what happens. And even to the point where you say, this doesn't really feel very official, I'd rather get in your patrol vehicle, your cruiser and go on record. Okay, you get inside the vehicle. You're emotionally distraught, you're crying, you're upset, understandably. But you also continue to dive into what happened 'cause initially you said, you'll never find her, she's in the hills. And what happened was you picked her up from her house which lines up with the fact that she went somewhere willingly with somebody. You leave and you said, near the Shehalis River somewhere, she attacked you and you just defended yourself but it got out of hand and you don't know what happened but why she attacked you. I never said that. Okay, so if it's on the recorder, what do you say to that? I really don't know. I think that the, I remember this, I remember that the officer asked me about her. I pointed to the, I pointed it like a round in that general area and I was like, I thought she's been gone for 10 years or something, right? And I'm like, I don't, she could be anywhere. Who knows? Okay, but the part where she could be anywhere is challenging because if you're in the cruiser, you tell them to turn the recorder off and then the story changes. As you picked her up and it didn't happen near Shehalis River, it happened here. And she like, it's actually on the recorder. That part? Yes. Okay, I never said that. This is where I'm giving you the chance to make it clear. So you're saying that I've never said that. Never said that. No. What about the scarf? That was made up. There's a lot of shit made up from the fucking media or a lot of people with somebody says to somebody else and somebody says, a lot of people are just making shit up. It just never fucking happened. When you say it never happened, you're saying then Therson County made up that part of the confession of I picked her up. We came back here, we were having sex. She enjoyed being choked in that type of sexual act and it just went too far. And they made that up. Made that up. Yes. As far as the scarf and what you used to choker made that up. Yes. 'Cause you also then say afterwards when they asked you, what did you do, where is she at? What did you do with her body? Is that you would get very choked up at that point in time and even made a comment about how you've been trying to forget that for the last 10 years. Eventually you said, you wanna take a walk and you walk them right back here. And you said, I don't wanna incriminate myself any further. But if I were to get rid of a body, you pointed right there and said, that's where I would do it. What I exactly said was, as we walked, they said, do you mind if we walk back here? And I was like, sure, this is where I saw the person, right? This is the original, you know? And we walked back there and they're like, well, we don't see anybody, we don't see any signs. One of them commented about the fire pit. You didn't come in point to it? No. They commented about the fire pit. They was like, that's what brought it up. And I said, yeah, we just have some pretty big parties back here. And I said, you know, I built that thing where I had Aaron built it. Aaron and Aaron, so that it would hold. AJ, just to be for the record, it's AJ, Aaron John's and then Aaron helped me earn that. Yes, yeah. And I said, you could throw a pallet in there and it would be, you just burned palace in there. It's just that big. And I told, and it's common knowledge that I told family members, my son or whatever. I said, that's where I wanted to be cremated. You want to be cremated in this fire pit? Yeah, I did. Not anymore. Why? It was work well. It would have. Why? It's go out like a Viking, whatever. You know, it was when I was younger. It doesn't haunt me today. It doesn't, I don't think about it or whatever. It's just, you know, at the time, there was no house. There was just the property about lying down or being dead or anything like that, you know, it doesn't matter. whole I want to be buried and go out and ashes here and is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I don't even think about it anymore, but that's at the time, but I told them that and I remember I'm standing here at the top of the hill and there's three cops and one of them turns his head and looks at me. The other one turns his head and looks at me and the other one turns his head at me and they said that is really a weird fucking statement. You understand that that is a weird statement. Not to me, but why did they think that the fire purpose was where she was at? I mean, you look around, look around here. They tore up this shit because they thought she was here because they said that you said that. Well, I was introduced very early on into the investigation to the person who has been investigating this for since her disappearance and I was just like, I told him, I was like, I don't have anything to do with this. I don't know. But it wasn't until it wasn't until like a day later that well, they gave me more information than I actually knew. What information about Dave? Because that's something I want to, before we get to Dave, I just want one question. I want to address some things is when you're saying, again, you denied coming out here, standing in front of the fire pit and pointing and saying, I don't want to incriminate myself any further. But if I were to get rid of a body on my property, that's where I would do it. You're saying you never, that never happened. Well, in context, yes, I did say that, but I was talking about myself, not about somebody else. So explain the context. Are you saying that because you want to bear, you wanted to burn your own self in this when you died? Well, that's why I built it originally. I thought Aaron and you built his different bodies. No, burn my body. Yes. That's where I wanted to be cremated at. Why, why else? I get you're saying, but that's why you had it made. AJ and Aaron both made this was. That's not why I hadn't made. Okay. We built it to have parties out here and just as commune with nature and it was a good place to go. It was very loving. It was people would spend the weekend out here. They would just, you know, love and drink and do whatever they did, but they would just, you know, would have. Eric, it sounds like you had a rough day and you wanted to get it off your chest and you brought them out here to let the world know that you gave her what you feel is a final resting place. That's what it sounds like. Actually, don't know what you mean by that. What is that? I mean, you built this and this was in your mind, this was a fitting place to, you know, to send somebody off and maybe, maybe whatever happened, happened accidentally. But you realized I built this long before she went missing. Absolutely, and that's what I'm saying. So, so what are you saying is what happened if it happened, it was an accident. This was the prop, the best way you could have handled the situation. No, now you're saying, you're actually saying. Okay. That's what it sounds like to the world. That's what really, that's what it sounds like. It's like, you know, this had been weighing on your mind, maybe for 10 years. It had been weighing heavy. Finally, you had enough. You wanted to come out with it. You wanted, you know, you've, you've seen like a very peaceful, nice man the whole time we've been here with you. And you sounded like you wanted to tell her family and friends that, you know, yeah, she's gone. And by the way, you know, I, I was respectful. I took care of her body. You know, I, I, I sent her out in a way that I felt was, you know, was honorable and respectful. That's, that's what it sounds like to the world. That's not what I'm saying is the case. But you just, you just put that out there. You said that you did say if I were to get rid of a body, it would be right there. But that's because you're saying it from, from what you're saying, and it makes you understand this correctly is because you've already thought about your own self being cremated there. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's what you're okay. Detectives ask you what you do with her clothes. And you said, I tried to put it once I realized that she had died. I didn't know she had died. She had moved for a while. That's what they said. You didn't say that? No. Okay. And then you try to put her shirt on her. The only thing that the detectives told me and I'm hearing this from you. The only thing that detectives told me and because they're trying to incriminate me or trying to incriminate myself, the only thing they told me is they said, we found a zipper. In the fire pit, we found a part of a, of a fur coat in the fire pit. And I was just like, I don't even know what to say about that. I don't recall any of that. I don't, I don't have anything, you know, maybe I was burning stuff out of the garage or something or what, but I, it's, I said, it still does not. I was actually appalled and amazed at the lack of evidence and what I was going through. And what I say amazed by their professionalism, the way I was handled by the correctional industry, you know, by the way I was handled by every law enforcement agency that I had to go through, even Edmonds, I was handled very well. This is one of the many times Eric would kind of go in a rabbit trail. You heard him earlier, talk about how he saw a saw in his property and how he doesn't know why it's there or even that it's his. At one point, he even interrupted our conversation to point out a rabbit that was crossing his property. It's almost as if Eric doesn't understand or fully grasp the reality of the situation. At times, I had to bring our conversation back to the reason I'm why I'm there. Now, when you get in Jed Pop, who wasn't handled so well? Yeah. The part about the scarf, you said you burned it because it disgusted you? Never said that. Never said that. No. I don't even know of. I don't ever remember her wearing a scarf for, you know, that's kind of. It's not uncommon for a girl to wear a scarf. I mean, you see that, right? Like, girls wear a scarf. I got a scarf. Did you wear a scarf? No. I've got one that my mother or sister made for me and I've never put it on. Okay. But that doesn't mean Nancy didn't. I don't ever remember her wearing a scarf. Okay. Suppose that I've worked for, I worked with her for what, seven years or something. Yeah. Seven? Did you also, from what you're saying, you didn't really pay attention to, or either? Not really. So, she could have worn a scarf, but you just didn't notice it? I think what people don't realize is that I was actually seeing other people at the time. I had other interests, other girlfriends. My work was very important to me. So, I concentrated on that. I've had very unsuccessful relationships at work and I kind of swore that off, you know, other than. Heather didn't work there very long. She moved on to Attorney General's or something like that. That was actually a decent relationship that I fucked up. I kind of know a little bit about that story and what happened afterwards. Have you talked to her? I don't want to go there. As I've said before, if the information I get has nothing to do with Nancy's disappearance, then I don't feel it's right for me to divulge someone's story. As you've noticed by now, Eric has denied any involvement with Nancy's disappearance or that he even confessed. When they asked you what you did with her clothing and items, you said I already told you. Put her in the fire pit and her clothes are in the basement. There should be no reason why Nancy's clothes were anything is found inside your house, right? Because she's never been here. Yeah, she's never been here. And they tried to convince me of that. And that was their statements, not mine. That was their statements. I said no. Those clothes that are in the basement are Heather's, not Nancy Moore's. Nancy Moore's never stepped foot on this fucking property that I even know of. Absolutely not. Why call in and say you did it? That doesn't make sense. I don't remember that. But you heard yourself on the record, the only recorder. You heard yourself and you confessing to the murder. Why do any of that? I don't understand. If you didn't do it and if you weren't, even if you were drunk, drunk people don't call in and then say I committed this murder and give a detailed rundown of what happened. Drunk people don't do that. The only thing I can offer up to that is that was despair and anguish. And then the fact that you've became involved in this case probably a month before that I became involved in or here I heard. Did you catch that? After asking Eric, why you called to confess, he mentions feeling anguish and says the fact that you've became involved in this case probably a month before that. I kicked myself or not letting Eric continue to say what he was saying. I naturally corrected him on how long I've been working on Nancy's case for. I've known about you for a while. I've never and Aaron did tell me he told you about me and asked you about me. He said that I wanted to talk to you. Yes. Do you know why I wanted to talk to you? No. Before you're confession? No. What I didn't tell Eric when I haven't told you guys yet and I can't say much about it still. But I've known Eric was a person of interest from day one really. There will be a time when I can divulge all the information that I know but since it's an open investigation right now, it would be not wise of me to speak on that. Sharon, Nancy's sister, told me that Nancy had confided to her and told her that she would sneak over here when she lived at the house, when the family went to sleep to hook up with Aaron. That's why I originally wanted to talk to you. Yeah, that was probably one of their original things. things that came out and that's absolutely not true. I think Nancy was habitual liar. I don't know how to explain it, but she would tell things to those girls up on the third floor and I don't know if it was desire. I'm not sure if it was fantasy. I'm not sure if it was trying to be popular. I'm really not sure. You know, a lot of those things came out after her disappearance. Well the secrets come out of the closet when someone goes missing, right? I mean, you dive into someone, you put a magnifying glass on your life when you go missing. People want to know the truth, right? If you went missing, people will probably know all your deepest and darkest secrets that you have least told somebody. Really so? If your daughter went missing, would you do anything and everything to figure out what was going on in her life to find out what happened her? Of course. Well, then that's the same thing with Nancy. I mean, today are you denying that you ever confess to the murder? I really don't remember it. How do you not remember? Like, are you saying you were drunk? You can remember going out with Dave and what going and being getting lost in the woods or you can remember acknowledging and saying hi to her, but something that happened last month, you don't remember? No, actually when I was taken to the hospital first, or the sheriff's hospital, that is. I was on sub-medication and I'm not sure if that's had anything to do with it. All I remember is I told the guy what medication I was taking and he says, "It goes all that's not good." So apparently, Eric was taking prescribed drugs and believes that that could be the reason for the 911 call. That he possibly was hallucinating, seeing the guy walk on his property, and he still stands by not remembering calling the second time when he confesses to Nancy's murder. This next clip of our conversation, I was anxiously waiting to hear from Eric about. I didn't share with Eric all the information that I knew I wanted to hear first what he had to say. When I first arrived at Eric's property, he acted like he didn't know who I was and I had to explain to him what I was doing. Now, something I found out since Eric's arrest is that Aaron Huntley wasn't the first person to bring my name up to Eric. Apparently, Eric knew about me about five months ago. The person that Eric went to talked to me about this and how he went to them and shared how I wanted to speak with him. Now, that part was surprising to me because I hadn't told Aaron Huntley yet that I wanted to speak with Eric. You know, just since we've been here, right, you know, when we came up on the porch, you told us you had no idea about James's podcast, and then five minutes ago, he said that, you know, the day that you confessed to us, allegedly confessed, you were filled with anxiety, remorse, regret, and you had been affected by James's podcast, and you just said that. I've never seen it before. I mean, I heard about it. Who'd you hear about it from? From a Ruth. When? A couple days ago. I mean, because she told you I was like, "I'm free." No, she said something about it. Well, you just said July 9th. It was weighing on you. What did it mean? When you were just talking to James, you said July 9th when you called the Sheriff's Department that a part of the reason you felt like kind of the walls were closing in or you were anxious and, you know, having a hard time. I actually don't remember saying that. I mean, do you just want to say it? July 9th? Yeah. Oh, hold on. You're correct. In that, I heard about it probably a month or two weeks before Aaron had told me about it and said that you were looking to talk to me or something like that. And I was like, "Oh, I got nothing to say." And this is kind of the weird thing. They kind of set the whole thing in motion is like, "I said Aaron, I don't know anything." And so I don't know what I could possibly say and I said, "I know that she went to the store for probably cigarettes and had a glass of wine on the table and then I don't know." Disappeared. How do you know she had wine in cigarettes? I heard that. It was rumored milk. From where? From where? Work, yeah. So you were informed enough to know that she had a glass of wine and she had cigarettes. Yeah, but it was then Aaron told me, he said, "No, there was two glasses of wine. There's two glasses." Do you have wine with her? No. And I was like, that is fucking strange. What you just told me is exactly, it's fucking strange. I was like, "That's just weird." Did you know that they're DNA testing everything in her house as well? No. Her bed sheets? Oh. That doesn't mean I'm happy that they're doing that. Are you happy that they're DNA testing all your stuff? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you, nothing's coming back with any stuff on it. No. No. She was never on my property. Do you have anything for her house with your DNA on it? No. I drove by her house when I was taking my son, fishing. That's the only time. What about what you told Dave in the car ride? So I want to stop for a second because I imagine you're probably thinking, "Who the heck is Dave?" Is this the same guy who is the drug dealer in the previous episodes? And no. He's not the same guy. So Dave and Eric were best friends. Dave is also the informant in the probable cause report and called in to share his concerns about Eric's involvement based on his comments, Eric made to him. Eric and Dave did have a fallout and didn't speak for multiple years. Now, during the course of not speaking to each other, that's when Dave called in to the nursing county to share his concerns. Did you have a car or a truck? You had a car. Okay. In convertible Mustang, you gave it to his son. Okay. So you never said that to Dave? The most I probably ever said to Dave was, and again, why would we be driving his Mustang down fishing? I'm not sure. I'm a mowless over in my head, it's like what, you know, because on the way there is to the barrier dam. Well, let me back up a second because this was near by Nancy's house that you said this. You have to pass it. Okay. So, would it be uncommon for you and Dave to drive through tonight? I know. I mean, it's just 10 minutes away. I know, but at that point, Dave didn't really get around much. You'd have to go visit him. Because of his house arrest or. No. No, because of his health. Oh, okay. Yeah, he was an under house arrest. Okay. You never had an ankle? No. Okay. No. It was because of his health. He had a massive arthritis. And he had joint inflammation type stuff, and then, I don't know, he was experiencing a lot of stuff. And I think that's why I originally thought he'd killed himself because he was in a lot of pain. That and his girlfriend called the police on him. So now that we know Dave was, you know, we knew I've known Dave was the informant. And Dave's obviously not here with us today. Yeah, that is so. I mean, I just, I looked across the table at Detective Hamilton, and I wish I could forget that name. And I was stunned, absolutely stunned. Why? Why would Dave make that up? Dave said you were seeing her, and you even referred to Nancy as Aaron's ex-girlfriend. I have no idea. I mean. You know how hard that is to believe that he would make it up, even when you guys are best friends. You were. You were. We were. We saw her. I have no idea. Dave. I just. I can't. I can't believe it. I mean, I've been elbows deep in a fucking elk with him, you know? And the only thing I offered to the detectives is that I said, "That is true. Dave would have come to me. Dave would have came to me and said something." But you and Dave weren't even on talking terms with that one. No, we were. You guys didn't talk for three years, was that what I was told? Was that not true? Well, again, Dave didn't lead the house much. So you didn't go see Dave? I saw him when I could, you know, I didn't. The three years is a long time not to see him. It's been a long time. It was a long time. I don't know how long, but it was a long time. Why did you guys stop talking? Originally? Yeah. I already told you. Which, which I don't remember, what do you mean? Because originally, we'd killed an elk, and I said I wanted the hide, and so he said, "All right." You know, so I wanted the hide, and we turned it in, and I kept asking about it over and over again and said, "When does the hide get me done? When does the hide get me done? And I'm going over to his house." And there was the hide hanging on his wall, didn't piss me off, it fuckin' upset me, yeah, upsetting deeply. I cried that night. Can you talk? He betrayed you? Well, fuck he did. He did betray me. Then the other thing was that he was selling drugs to a friend of mine. I didn't say that. You're a very. What do you call yourself? You're like a private investigator type person, but are you. I'm just a person who dug into a story, had no fucking idea what I was getting myself into. I'm like an author. 'Cause I'm unfamiliar with podcasts and stuff like that. You are? Yeah. I mean, I used to deal with it at work. Let's go back to Dave. You're upset that he's selling drugs to a friend. So you told me already, you didn't want her name to make, or you didn't want to name the person. Well, because, you know, she doesn't, she's a good person, you know. Because Dave was struggling with his addiction or his pain. She kind of fell back into it. I guess I don't know where's nothing I can do about it. - So Dave had OxyCot and OxyCot and he was selling it. You got upset because he was selling it to your friend. Your girlfriend, essentially, right? - Yeah, so. - Did you confront Dave about this? - I don't think I ever did. I think I just wrote him out for a while. You know, actually, to be honest, I was afraid that he was fucking her. Any of that, there is some accusations towards that Dave and we're having sex. - There. - But that's not true. Why would you think that (beep) and Dave were having sex? What's your reason for that? What facts do you have? Is it just 'cause they were good friends and close and they were, I mean, what is it? - Because Dave's type of person never to pass up a piece of pussy. - Never, absolutely never. Never seen him fall short, absolutely. - Sorry, saying that you think that (beep) offered that to him? - No, I think it's because of Dave's persuasion. - Opportunity, he took a, he took a, he saw that chance and opportunity and he went after it. - Yeah, and I only say that because of being friends with Dave and seeing him work. It's just, it was unsettling feeling to me. - So before we get into Dave and why you think Dave is responsible, I wanna stay on the topic of (beep) really quick, when you and (beep) first started having sex or having a relationship, told me that during sex, you tried to play the choking game with her and she pushed your hands away and you never tried again after that, but that you did attempt to do that. - First I wanna ask, is that true? - That is not true. - I don't know what facilitated that. First of all, when the detectives ask me that, I said, I don't even know what the choking game is. I mean, that doesn't sound like a game to me. Does it do you? - That's not something I do. I mean, that's not something I'm into, but it's something that people do. So, whether you could refer to as choking game, or you could refer to as just another sexual act that people do, it's a real thing. People do it. She you're saying (beep) is lying about that. - I don't recall that ever happening. She knew I was a very sexual person. She was frustrated that at first, but then, I think she got used to it, but I wasn't, I would never have any harmful thoughts or ideas during our interactions. The things that she talked about, with he tried to choke me early on. Now, he tried to play that game, or do that thing, whether that was something you were into, you're saying that that's not something that happened between you and (beep) 'cause (beep) is saying that it was, it happened. But you never tried again. You just, it was for one time thing that you tried, and then you shoot with a tick-knop, not into it. Okay, fine, and you never tried again. But you're saying that that part's not true. - I have no recollection of that ever happening. I mean, she's not the kind of person that you would try to choke out, okay? 'Cause you would be suffering severe consequences. - What about the event that happened when you did try to choke her out? And she scratched and clawed at your face. Well, again, I think it's in the police report is that she attacked me. - She said to me that you guys were in in some sort of argument, and that wasn't the only time that you had done that to her. Whether your guys' relationship was, she would physically attack you, you guys would go back and forth, regardless, choking her was what happened. And she said she thought she was gonna die, she had a scratch and claw your face, and eventually she got loosened. Her sisters, kiddos were here, and they came by, picked her up, and they took off. You were still in the bedroom asleep and passed out. - Listen, the only thing I can say to that is this is kind of a person you're dealing with, is that she made us dinner one time, and I went, we sat at the table, like family. I wanted my potato cooked longer, right? So I went, put it in the microwave, and she fucking flipped out, just flipped out, the way that she reacted in this. - So she just had a temper? - Yeah. - Did you, when you were drinking? - No, you're very temper, when you got dropped? - No, very loving person. - Well, let's go back a year between you and Ethan. - Oh man, yeah. - I mean, you, you're trying to leave, he's trying to stop you from driving drunk, and you choked him. - Well, first and foremost, those charges have been completely dropped, and you know that. - Yeah, I know. - That's why it was at Ruth's house. - That's not the way it went down at all. - How to go down? - Well, I'll tell you from the point that the cops showed up. - You have the case. - You already have the, I don't have that case file. - I just know that you were trying to leave, you were drinking, he's trying to stop you, 'cause he doesn't want you to drive drunk. It gets into a physical altercation between the two of you, and you end up trying to choke him, which is why they call the police. - Okay, well, that didn't happen, but so, yeah, we got into an altercation, that's for sure, but you're the reason for the altercation. It's in the police report. - Not the pronounces. - So I'm sitting there on the couch. Obviously she has a nice place, right? - Yeah, no, it's a very nice place. I was very disappointed when I showed up and you didn't answer the door. I'm gonna spare you guys on what happened between Eric and his son. The point that I was making was bringing up the altercation was that Eric is, once again, getting in trouble for choking somebody. On a side note, when I went to the house and knocked on the door, apparently Eric was there. He just chose not to answer, or at least he said he didn't hear the doorbell ring. - Let me go over something with you. And give me, I'm gonna give you my perspective and I wanna hear your responses. You have a confession where you've choked a girl during sex. Talks about how you tried to do something similar sexually but she told you to stop and she didn't do it anymore, or you didn't try to do it anymore. You have, then the choking incident where she says he choked me a scratch and clawed. I remember my family coming pick me up that night and then you got this incident with Ethan where it's also discussed that you choked him. Do you understand how that looks? And all of these testimonies are saying, that's not true, or that's a lie. - All these testimonies as you're saying that other people are saying that that didn't happen. - Other people are saying that it did happen, you're saying that it didn't happen. Do you see how that makes it hard to believe that you're confession about how you called in and said this is what I did to Nancy? Is hard for me to sit here and believe just because you got so many other people that this has happened to your son. I mean, and multiple incidents where you're saying, no, that didn't happen that way. Or, you know what I mean? - Sure. - So what's your response? - I don't really have a response. I mean, when I was interviewed originally by the detectives, I was like, it's pretty damning, you know? But I really don't have any answers for you. I mean, you know, whether it be all these individuals are not associated with each other. All these individuals amongst myself have their own situation. I can't speak upon that, but it's so, whatever happened between me and them is, you know, severely a case-by-case basis. - But they all have something that's in each case, is that you're choking somebody. - If you're drunk and you do this, like I don't, those other cases with your son, with (beep) I just wanna know, how does this also a lot with Nancy's story that you choked her? And it wasn't intentional, it was a sex act. Do you see how those two other individuals are? - But that's what the cops said. - If you're on record, and they play that, and they say that, and they have that on record, of you saying, I choked her, I did it, I killed her. You said multiple times, I killed her, I did it. Multiple times, not just once. But multiple times, I did it, I killed her. How do you say that they're making this all up? I know Mickey on a personal level. - Who's Mickey? - Hamilton. - Oh. - I know I'm on a personal level. I do not believe that he would make up this confession, that he would make up this confession, and say that you said that you choked her with the scarf, and how you threw it in the fire pit, and how it was, that was bullshit. But I don't think he made it up. - Listen, his job is to solve cases. In fact, he told me that exact same thing. He said, my job is to solve cases, and we have to investigate this. And I said, and I said, that's good. That's good, that's fine. You know, I completely understand that. I said, but I'll buy no terms. I have anything to do with her disappearance. And I said, you're welcome to search my house, you're welcome to search my property, you're welcome to search anything I got. - I mean, did you, did you welcome them, or did they got a warrant because of your confession? - I welcomed them first. - Yeah. - On to the property. But you're welcoming them. They didn't come here to say, hey, we want to search your property, and you're like, oh, yeah, no problem, come on in. They came here because you confessed. No one was coming here, and there's a call in recording, have you seen, I did it. - Yeah, that part is very concerning to me, yeah. That part. of it is very concerning to me. It was when they played that I didn't have no recollection of me even doing that. Were you also drinking on top of the prescription that you were taking? I just I remember that the pills were on the corner of my table and then I took at least one pill and that was like the last thing I remember is that the pills were on the corner of my table. This is the day of the confession. I believe so. I believe so. I don't I'm not I don't think the pills could last that long or I mean I don't think so. It was prescribed doctor medication you know it's like but you weren't drunk or were you drunk. No I was not drunk and I don't remember I just don't remember after taking the pills. I remember sitting on the step but I'm not knowing why. You were in a position where you're under the influence you're telling the truth because you've been carrying this for 10 years which is a fucking long time which would be heavy heavy to carry and you carried it for 10 years and you're finally in a position where it's weighed so much on you that in a moment where you were under the influence to a certain extent or level you say I can't take it and here it is because I've carried this for 10 years and that shit will rot your bones to the core. That's not the case though. That's not it. That's not who I am. That's not that's not. I don't think and I've thought about this and I've thought about this for a while Eric. If you are responsible I don't think you're killer because I don't think he went there for the intentions of murdering Nancy. I think shit got out of hand and you didn't even realize it until after you kind of you sound just like it's back to this. That didn't happen. You've been closer to me than I've ever been to Nancy. Me sitting here and you sitting there is closer to me than I've ever been to that person. Ever. That's what I told them too. Obviously they didn't believe me. Like we've already said she should be nowhere on this property and if she is you got to understand it's end game. Right? They're welcome back anytime. When I first sat down with Eric he started to cry. He said that he thinks that his friend is responsible for Nancy's disappearance. His friend Dave. Unfortunately Dave isn't with us today. Now this is a sensitive topic and I just want to clear the error because what happened to Dave has some sort of involvement with Eric and what was found at Eric's house when Therson County searched the property. A few years ago sadly Dave committed suicide at his house and I'll get this out of the way now Eric was nowhere near the house when this happened. Witnesses were on site when this took place so let's not speculate that Eric had any kind of involvement with Dave's passing. The day after the incident Eric was invited over to Dave's house and I'm not 100% sure why but I believe Dave's girlfriend at the time was mourning and trying her best to cope with the situation. When Eric came over he had a chance to go into Dave's room where it had happened. Eric was alone in the room. As far as Dave's involvement in all this is what you said you thought your best friend did it and he's not here today. But why why is Dave? Why does he come to mind? Yes well it only came to mind because of the detectives. Okay so feel me in on that. Well they asked me about somehow Dave's name came up and I was like I don't know it's probably public record or whatever but I was like didn't really know what to what they were getting at and then they said that Dave came to them sitting at the exact same place I was sitting saying that I might have had something to do with it. So why do you think Dave had anything to do with it himself? Well it's the only thing that kind of makes sense right now. First of all the guy Dave why would he say something like that and not at least come to me or not know something or inquire or whatever you know out of cold blue drives to the sheriff's office and says that I might have something to do with it that just astonishes me. But you got to give me more than I mean with you thinking Dave did it just because he went and told Therson County what he told him doesn't make him the killer. Well again I want to tell you this again I mean he lives in the area he knows absolutely every single road probably commented but I've searched my head to figure out what I even commented about her and Aaron's relationship and then I don't know what happened after that you know he's got a convertible Mustang no job. What are those things that to do with you thinking he was responsible for the murder? Well because he said I had something to do with it so you don't automatically think he does. Well why why else would he why else would he say that unless you know he not necessarily wanted I don't know actually I don't know and then for him to kill himself like that in such a violent way. Why did Dave commit suicide in your opinion from what you know of Dave? Well and again I was just like I told the detectives I have no idea. I have no idea I mean it's a strong statement you make as soon as we kind of dove into this you said I think I know who did it and his my friend. Dave. Well yeah because it's the only thing that makes sense. I mean look at the time of her disappearance I'm a creature of habit right I go from my house to my work from my work to my house back and forth back and forth back and forth. I developed a habit when I was number one wanted a career number one needed to pay for stuff and take care of my kids that's all I did you know he got retired for medical disability and so he just kind of dropped off the radar and stuff but I'll go with her now and then he would sometimes come over here in my absolutely hundred percent sure I know I have no idea but it just seems it seems weird that he would go to the police or call crime stoppers or whatever you said he did I was told that they he came in one of the things and again you said you have no idea if he actually really even did it now that we're diving deeper into this but one of the first things you say is I think I know who did it and it was my friend but now your position is you don't know if you did or not possible that nobody's ever gonna know but if I had to I mean he's the more likely subject than I am. How the heck do you say that when you call in and say that you murder her I don't even remember that. I got a question and this is an agonomy so Dave killed himself he shot himself yeah you went there the next day or the day up the next day I got the word from you go over there and you collected pieces of his skull I remember I told the detective I said I remember picking up one piece and I brought it home and put it in a keepsake drawer that I have and it was like months later I opened up the drawer and there were three pieces so the sheriff's department found pieces of Dave's skull in your house yes I told him where to find it and there was there's panties in there too who's with those I told him I didn't know it was from like a one-night fling when I was 21 years old in the same box as the skull and we're in a box we're in a drawer so there was a drawer with keepsakes in it that include panties skull fragments is that weird yeah especially when they said that my mom's photo album was in there too is that weird I'm not the killer but I got skull fragments in a drawer with panties in my mom's photo that weird I don't have a drawer like that no it's not weird I mean it's not keepsakes those keepsakes include skull fragments of friends pictures of mom panties close downstairs that you're saying or not Nancy's but the night of your confession you said were Nancy's no I didn't say that okay you did say that you would find Nancy's close downstairs in the basement no I said they're Heather's close but when they asked you work and they find Nancy you said I already told you in the fire pit and in the basement I don't remember saying that at all and again I'll say it police and detectives don't like those answers I understand but they didn't come here just to question you because they got a tip from from Dave they came here because you confessed to the murder I understand they don't like those answers I don't like those answers because I want to know the truth but they didn't come here because they were fishing for information they came here because you said I did it I've carried the guilt long enough and I hope honestly Eric that this isn't the situation where you feel like you've cleansed your conscience because now that you're out but you said it and now it's on them to figure it out and you've said it so the guilt off your shoulders so in a way you confessed but now it's up to them to figure it out because they came here and you said I killed her not just one time over the phone and then you were candid as soon as they got here you told them exactly how you did it and I know you're saying you I didn't say they were making that stuff up they were making that stuff up but I was like I was denying it I was like what I don't why why you even you know they were making us stuff up which parts are they making up all of it you're on record saying you did it on the original phone recording yeah the original reason why they were here is because I thought somebody walked back on the property I didn't want to grab again I didn't want to walk back here okay and so I called the police when we're standing at the top of the hill they commented about the fire pit I said well that that's where they didn't come okay but hold on one second you called Thorson County or 911 not necessarily Thorson County you called 911 to dispatch you saw somebody's what you're saying was the first phone call that you made there should be a recording of that phone call that you made but no one came out for that reason three cops came because they said that we have someone who's just confessed to the murder of Nancy Moore that's why three cops came no one came out here looking for a guy they came out here and walked out here because you said that you wanted to take a walk time they they came and walk back here there's three cops with me standing on top of the hill and okay so then three cops came for the first phone call yes and then they left that I know of yeah and then you made another call because then you want to confess to the murder and then they came back are these the same three officers that returned both times no I believe that I was hooked up by an individual I was picked up by an individual officer do you see how this is confusing you're saying you made a call because you saw a guy back here three officers respond are they saying they didn't and they've never heard of this first phone call I've never heard of them showing up the first time no one's ever said we we responded to a call at first we went out there because he said that he saw somebody and then we left the scene and then he got it we got another call in that he was confessing to the murder of Nancy Moore so then we returned that's never been discussed so I'm going to go check the records and if there's not a one call that was made before the three thirty yet around there what's your response I mean I'll follow up with you know I'll call you I'll come back but you know it's because I don't have a phone but I've been calling your phone a lot lately yeah again that's I'm gonna have to follow up with you on that because that that's please do yeah I'm going to wrap up my conversation with Eric at this point I spent over four and a half hours speaking with Eric at all ends the same way I had nothing to do with it it's the same thing over and over his story changes to a first phone call was maybe because he saw somebody on his property and he explains how the police officers came to the property then left and then apparently he doesn't remember anything after that I did look over the property went to the supposedly concrete slab in the back part of his pasture nothing was there I went into the basement I did find some female clothing all I can say is Therson County was very thorough in digging up Eric's property as a left Eric's house I requested that he give me a call I wanted to keep in touch with him now when I was getting into my car I told Eric I was counting on him calling me when he got a chance to use a phone Eric's response oh I will I haven't lied to you yet that comment upset me I immediately got out of my car and yelled back you know Eric I think you have his response seriously after all of this insinuating that the four and a half hour conversation meant that he was telling the truth I explain how things don't make sense or adding up that's when he presented an intriguing offer so you're saying if I go get a light detector test and I come back here you're willing to take that polygraph I see no reason why not too other than the fact that I've already been eliminated as any sort of suspect as to her disappearance you know whether it be fingerprints or DNA anything like that even location you know I told them that I'll get a polygraph machine and I'll come back I'm offering it just as a way to I offered it to them they wouldn't hear about it oh really what did they say at first they thought they took it very seriously and next they treated as a amusement you know and they called me a fucking liar don't do it for Therson County do it with me well why do you think I mentioned it I look forward to speaking with him again I have answers about that first call he claims to have made an answer of today I haven't gotten the call from Eric but I'm in the process of hiring a public operator to come out to Erick's who knows though Eric might decline the offer and after thinking it over regardless the results wouldn't be submitted in court both sides the state and the defense would have to agree to submitting the results so I'll keep you guys posted if Eric is willing to meet with me again now at this point I feel like I've done everything I could to bring Nancy's story back to life again when I started this case it was cold today that's no longer the situation with that being said my next episode will be my last for the season one of hide and seek I'm not 100% sure when the next episode will come out since I'm at the mercy of Eric meeting with me again I can't say for sure though next month I'm heading back to Eric's house I feel his voice but they don't rock and stop me from getting through if you wait at me the other one you see how do we spot you if you're thinking standing up below but there's no bear trap. Thanks for letting me know. Well, I'm asking you. Yeah, I'll put that back. I'm closing to a bear trap. I'm coming back and fucking you up.