Ep.108 What good communication actually looks like

Hey friends, it's Shiv and Dave and you're listening to the all of you podcast Do you think we'll ever run out of podcast topics? I Used to think we would now. I don't think so Just gonna go on forever As long as we don't call to do it. We'll just keep doing it. There's so many topics. I Yeah, I thought we would do but I actually I didn't want to start the podcast because at the time I was like There's no way I have enough to say yeah, no There's a lot of belief up in there. Yeah, there's so much nuance to all of it to relationships to life and I think with coaching it helps us have a lot of topics to like our clients help Stir our mind with help of C. I was telling somebody this I feel like I'm plugged into So many different pockets of the universe because of coaching Mm-hmm. I don't know if people know this but we have we have clients in other countries like many other countries I've had them in Spain in Australia and New Zealand and Canada and obviously we're in the US Dubai Dubai. Yeah, like so many different clients France like it's it's awesome. It's awesome to see. It's awesome to meet people England I've had a couple in England as well. Well, and this is about to get a little bit kind of cheesy, but There's a universe inside of all of us and so sometimes you just feel like you get to step in to all of their Universes and it's deeply fascinating and beautiful and Yeah, so there's endless amounts of inspiration not that all of our inspiration comes from clients that say most of it comes from things in our own lives, but I think we just have access to so many different types of struggle too Yeah, yeah, most of our inspiration definitely comes from our own relationship struggles Yeah, and overcoming them. There's a universe of those too. Yeah endless supply Yeah, there always will be struggle. I think that's the greatest myth of all time I've said it a lot a lot, but we always are like we want to get to this place where connection is Abundant and and and it is but where there's never disconnection and There will always be this connection. There will always be conflict There will always because there's a you and there's a me and there's a There's different opinions there and different wants and different needs and with that comes the the greatest Problem, but it also comes the greatest triumph and and the greatest Ability to connect if you were me then there wouldn't be that other and it's really hard to know yourself without another and so it's like the person in that you're in a relationship with is a mirror that you're constantly getting to Work through these problems with and struggle and we tell ourselves to slide that it's gonna Get to a point where there's no conflict. It's just the you get better at handling it like we are we are Black belts compared to what we were when we started our relationship. Oh, yeah, yeah, I think What we've gotten really good at is probably the art of repair is Incommunicating I would say too. We can communicate a lot better. There's a lot of areas. We've grown but yeah, there's still areas where We'll find ourselves like oh shoot We're in it right now Yeah, speaking of communication. That's what we want to talk about today jumping into it. How many fights do you think? Are happening with couples around the world that are just about arguing over what someone said? Oh, oh, maybe scale that down how many of our early fights were over that 90% of them. Yeah, like you said this no, I I meant this and but you said this Yeah, communication is so vague when it comes to like how to actually get better at communicating and I think we're gonna give some insight on that like how we got better at communicating because we did like the the difference in Repair and how we repair is through our ability to communicate To one another, but it's not just words It's not just the words you use. There's so much involved in communication What what do you think has helped you understand it the most? Well, I'll start by saying When I kind of came into our relationship really believing I was great at communication because I'm I have a degree in business communication So I was like I've studied this I have a degree that says I'm good at it and What I found is that it's The words you use when you communicate are absolutely important But it's not so much about the words It's about knowing how you feel Really that's what when when it comes to trying to communicate well in a relationship if we don't know how we feel communication ends up sounding like I Feel like you're an asshole At least that's what mine sounded like I feel like you're hurting me. I feel like you're doing this. Yes, you're not paying attention to which like asshole is not a feeling right yeah, yeah, and I Didn't understand that I didn't understand how I felt and so my words Didn't articulate correctly How I was feeling because I actually didn't even know what I was feeling other than most of the time I was like I'm I know I'm pissed off Mm-hmm, and that that was kind of the extent of being able to articulate Yeah, and so I think that what's missing in so much of communication is The ability to know actually what do I actually feel and how do I articulate that yeah and You know they say like 93% of communication is nonverbal which that stat shocked me like and what they mean by that is That what do you remember the time when I tried to Convince you that since 93% of communication is nonverbal you should be able to read my face You're like how I'm communicating with my body language is so much more important than Look at my face. Yeah, it says everything Dave. You should know Here's the thing though. Yes, but so expressive. I was like you should have known obvious come on You still have to use words that stat I think is helpful to understand how much is behind communication But it's also it's not to negate the value of words word choice Absolutely matters and in a state When there's high intensity in a conflict and somebody's hurt or somebody's not feeling safe the word choice matters like a lot but how you say it also matters a lot and So I would break it down like this if if we're communicating on where we should meet or something logical You know what we're meeting here at this time words matter if I say the wrong time then That that's not gonna lead to a successful meetup, right? So anything logical is really about the words in business you're often communicating about words Like what what is what are we doing here with this business plan? but in a in a non-transactional moment in a conflict It's emotional and when you're communicating around emotions it is all tone. It is all body language It is all the looks on your face that you give and knowing that is Another level of communication I the guys that work with I teach him is about reading energy and understanding the energy behind the statement understanding the Feeling like learning feelings is a six sense because it really does help you interpret energy behind that if somebody brings to me a statement I can tell you What that person's trying to communicate even if they suck at communication I can I've done it so long now that I can Interpret even bad communication or poor communication, but other people You know, they're just taking it at face value and they don't always know what's behind it and there's so like there's so much behind Even the words that we say and I think Selling it down like how if you want to become a better communicator in your relationship it really is about learning tone body language and Your own feelings like I Something I do in coaching is all read text messages not the other persons, but like a guy will have me preview a text before he sends it and Not that I'm editing it or telling him what to say. He'll just be like what do you think of this or how do you think this will come across? I'm helping him become a better communicator and my goal is never to Help him write the text so that the you know woman on the other side feels better like I don't want her I Don't want her engaged with me through him. But I- She's in a relationship with him, not you. Yeah, exactly. But what I'm doing is I'm trying to help him learn how to interpret what he wants to communicate and then select the words that match that. And so much of communication is we're, we have a feeling and we want to convey that feeling. But when it comes out, it comes out all sideways because we're overthinking. We're overthinking how they're going to feel, how it's going to come across. We're viewing it from the lens of the other person instead of looking inward and knowing ourselves and then communicating that, feeling our emotion. Yeah, I think that's a really good point because some people don't communicate because they're actually afraid of what the other person is going to say or feel or do if they were to communicate how they felt. And so being able to actually work through your own fear of speaking your truth is a part of communicating in relationship well. Well, and to go a little deeper, this one's kind of deep if you can follow it. It's like we're afraid to let somebody in on how we feel because we're embarrassed that we feel that way. Oh, I'm so true. Like, like, I'm like, I remember early on, I'm trying to, I'm trying to not give you how I feel because I know deep down how I feel on a subconscious level, not even conscious. I just knew deep down the feelings I was having weren't going to be well accepted by you because they were triggered feelings. They were past feelings. They were deeper feelings than I even wanted to feel. So of course, I'm trying to filter them. But then through that filtering process, it comes out sideways. The energy leaks out. It comes like it comes out as control. It comes out as trying to get you to do something to not trigger those feelings. And instead, I actually need to address those feelings and learn how to address them and clear them. And so I can actually communicate with you what I want to communicate to you. And most people don't know what they want to communicate to their partner because they're so backed up with emotion and feelings and lack of understanding of how to process all these feelings. Yeah, I think to put maybe in an analogy or an example to that because I think painting the picture is sometimes easier to digest. At least for me, it is an easy example of that is, and I think I've said this before, it's the man who says to the woman, hey, don't wear that outfit. But really what he should be saying is, I'm really insecure that other men are going to look at you in that outfit. And that's too painful for me. So could you address more modestly so that my insecurities aren't triggered? Like that's what it comes out as control because he's too embarrassed or unaware to know what is really happening underneath his own surface. Yeah. And somebody commented, shout out, I forget your Instagram handle. Sorry, but somebody commented to someone that you don't know who they are. No, I just forget the name. But you'll know who you are if you're listening to this. But somebody commented about this beautiful analogy of it being like an ocean and all of these like are humans are a human's are an ocean and beneath the surface there's all these dolphins and sea animals or whatever. And most people don't want to explore those. And they're bumping up against the surface all the time. These feelings, these emotions and until you go under and explore that underworld, then it really will always prevent you from being able to communicate well. Can we just laugh at you? Yeah, 100% I'm laughing at you. We're just going to pause for a second. I'm going to bring everyone up to speed on why I'm laughing. So because I saw this, someone commented and I think it was a woman. I didn't check on her page, right? I think it was a woman. And she left like the most beautiful analogy that you just described. And she articulated it way better. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't even know what post it's on of yours. And it was a gorgeous comment. And she it was a good analogy. But then I looked down and I'm like, oh, of course, she served nut. You can't the thing Dave loves more than anything. Maybe more than me is like analogies. And so what did he do? He furthered her analogy and the comment back and I was dying. I'm like, oh, she just served him up. Like, and he just knocked the analogy. And I think she wrote back like, wow, that was, you know, even deeper. I love it. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, he would be analogy rambling in his comment section. I think I think you created your entire Instagram so that you can expand on analogies and do this. Well, communication is like analogies help with communication as well, help with understanding. Not everyone loves them. And they often I can use them to beat the point down. I have to learn how to not beat the dead horse sometimes. Like, I know that about myself. I can over communicate definitely. And you have to say like, I got it. I got the point. Well, what happens, sorry, not to call you out is like, you think of an analogy. And then as you're explaining that analogy, you realize you thought of a better one. And so then you go off about that analogy. And meanwhile, you thought of an even better one. And I'm like, we're like four or five analogies deep. I got it on the first one. Like, can we not? Yeah, but it's just like the process. And I know I don't take it personal because I know, like, I know it's kind of like your thing. It's an analogy sport. Me and a buddy go back and forth on good analogies all the time. And we will go three or four deep. And like, oh, that's the perfect one. We nailed it. We finally got to the one that is it because it's communicating the energy. It's representing what's how how your felt experiences or what's going on. You know, but I want to go back to like the simpler aspect of communication. So, you know, it is as deep as exploring your feelings and exploring this, this underworld of all these past emotions and knowing all that, the better you understand yourself, the better you'll communicate. Even it's not about knowing big words. It's not about being the most articulate. It's being able to be the most honest communication is about honesty and it's about clarity and it's about authenticity. And when you can communicate authentically what you're actually trying to say from like a deep knowing truth about something, it lands so much better. If I say, if I'm unsure, if I want to go somewhere, like I asked you today, if maybe you want to go to the podgers game with me tomorrow. And I was like, hey, I'm not attached to this idea, but if you'd like to, this is something I think that could be fun. That's what I was trying to communicate. But if I really did want to go and then I said to you, hey, would you want to go to the podgers game? I know you don't really, you're not the biggest sports fan. Like if you don't want to go, it's okay. But really deep down, I really want to go. I'm not communicating honestly. And it's really about knowing first, checking in with yourself, knowing how to talk to yourself and game clarity on what do I actually want here and just saying that thing. Not expecting you to go with me. You can still say you don't want to go, but just saying, like, hey, I'm, I would love this. Like this would be a great thing or whatever you want to say, just say it. Yeah, because my answer does kind of depend on how you say it. 100%. And in the way that you said it, my response back was like, I was like, Dave, I just started my period this morning and I'm just like not feeling great. Can I get back to you later? Like I was right now. I don't feel like it, but I might tomorrow, I might feel different. But if you would have came with me of the energy of like, I really want to go to the podraise game. Like it would mean a lot if you came with me. I probably would have been like, yeah, I'll go to the podraise game. Exactly. Like I'll do you the solid if that's something that matters to you. But if it doesn't matter to you and I'm not really feeling it, then no, I'm not going to go. But if it matters, all right, like, I'll consider it a little more. Exactly. Exactly. That's what that's why communication is so nuanced. Because I didn't want to ask you a favor to go with me. I want to do something with you tomorrow that we would both enjoy. That's my goal. Like I, I don't care if we go to the podraise game or not. I was just trying to come up with date night ideas. And I want to go on a date night with you tomorrow or Saturday like this weekend. Last time we didn't have the girls for a weekend, we I worked all weekend and you were supportive of that. But now I want to like do something with you. So I didn't want to ask a favor. I knew that. I didn't want that wasn't the goal. The goal was I want I'm trying to find ideas that we both want to do. And I'm not attached to what we do. I'm really not. I don't care if we stay home and watch Netflix, or let's watch a show, or find a new show, or make ice cream, or like, I don't care what we do. I just want to be with you and experience something with you that you might also want to enjoy. So I did communicate it that way. But a lot of people, I think, really are attached to an idea. And then they say they're not. That's the disc-- that's why we don't communicate well because we're not understanding how we feel. We're not knowing ourselves first, you know? I think I was the most guilty of this, in our relationship. Oh my gosh, it killed me. [LAUGHTER] Because I would be like, I would say it. Like, I wasn't attached. And then when you would say you didn't want to go, I would get all sad and take it personal and be like, you don't want to do this with me. And you're like, well, if it matters to you, I'll do it. But it didn't seem like it mattered. And I'm like, well, I want it to matter to you. And then you'd be like, but it doesn't. It only matters to me if it matters to you. Yeah. That was hard for me to learn. I wanted you to want to do what I wanted to do. Exactly. And that's where we get mixed up. We're trying to control the other person's feelings. We're trying to control the outcome. We're attached to an idea. And then we're trying to manipulate our way to get that outcome. Instead of just clear communication, this is what I'm interested in. Or this is how I'm feeling. Because think about what is communication other than, I have a thought or a feeling inside. And I'm trying to let you in on that thought or feeling. I'm trying to show it to you. Why else would I speak? And I guess sometimes it's like asking you about what's going on inside of you. That's really all communication is. I'm either saying what's happening inside of me or I'm asking you what's happening inside of you or we're making a logistical plan. You know, it's really, is there any other road? I think that I only see those three things in communication. It's either what I'm thinking or feeling. And I'm trying to say that to you or asking you about what you're thinking or feeling or making a logistical plan of some sort. - Yeah, basically. - Yeah. - As of right now, but I reserve the right to change my mind. - Yeah, maybe there's another one. - Maybe I'm forgetting one. - But if that's true, then we just have to know what we're doing. Like am I trying to make a logistical plan? But here's what we mix it up. I wanna make this logistical plan with you. But I want what you're thinking and feeling to be on that same page. And then I like try to manipulate what you're thinking or feeling to try to get you into that logistical plan. Or I'm trying to get us to be thinking and feeling the same thing. And that's where you start manipulating people's emotions, their inner world, and it's like, no, I'm either asking you about your inner world or I'm telling you about mine before we're making an logistical plan. That's it. - Yeah. (laughing) But like, I think where it goes to sideways is we, I should say I personalize when I used to do this a lot, personalize when what I wanted you didn't want. - Yeah. - Because I couldn't understand, like it was hard for me to, 'cause I saw that as well, like, then I'm not gonna get what I want. And that's really where it gets a little wonky. - That is where people mess up. - And then basically what I had to learn is, and you know where this showed up a lot for me, who is actually in my relationship with the girls, is I learned that I would get really bummed that they would never want to do what I would want to do, naturally. And I learned that if I actually just tell them, and I don't overuse it, but I'd be like, I really wanna go do this thing when you guys do it, they'll pretty much always say yes. - Yep. - Because. - They love you. - Naturally, yeah, like you want, you wanna make the people around you. - You want the people around you to be happy. And so they would, if I'm like, I really wanna do this, pretty much 10 times out of 10, unless they like really don't want to do it, or like it's something that's like kind of out of the scope of they might be scared to do it, or roller coaster or something, right? I'm not gonna push 'em. - But if it's like, I wanna go to the beach today, and they're not really feeling the beach, but you like really wanna go. - Really want to. - They'll probably do it. - Yeah. - And likewise for them, right? - Mm-hmm. - But if they don't really care, I'm not as likely to do it. - But here's where people mess up. They don't want other people to do things for them. They want the other person to want to do those same things. And we can't always make everyone happy. Like, if I really wanna go, I do really wanna go to a Potter Days game soon. I really do. And if we don't go this weekend, then there's gonna be a weekend in the next month or so, that I'm gonna be like, hey, I really wanna go. You can come with me or I'm gonna go with the buddy. But like, I need to go catch a game and I think that would feel good for me. And like, being able to communicate that is so necessary. Because if I'm waiting for you to want to go to a Potter Days game and then you don't wanna go all season, then I'm gonna start resenting you. 'Cause you're keeping me from doing the thing I want to do, but you're really not. You're just communicating your inner world and your inner world says, I don't really, for you can care to go see a Potter Days game. Which I think at some point you would wanna go, just not this weekend, but just not as an example. - Actually, I kinda wanna do one with the girls. I think it'd be fun. - I would do. - It'd be fun. - Yeah. - So yeah, it is about knowing how you feel and then also being able to accept the way somebody else feels. Like, it's hard. It's hard to ask somebody, hey, would you wanna hang out this weekend and then them go, no. (laughs) I'm actually prioritizing myself and my self-care or this other relationship with this other friend or something like, no, I don't have time this weekend. We don't wanna feel rejected. So then we start to like prod and manipulate or try to get in another way or when can I see you? And it's like, man, that doesn't feel good for the other person. Just say, hey, I'd love to see you soon. If you wanna see me feel free to chat, I'll try to prioritize our relationship. - Yeah, and I think where I go to with that is, takes a lot of awareness. - Exactly. - To be able to do any of this well. - It, 100%. - And I think that's where I really go to good communication isn't about how to communicate. It's really about how to feel and how to be aware of how you feel. - Mm-hmm. - And I did not know that and guess what? That was never taught in a single communication class I took, isn't that fascinating? - Well, 'cause likely none of them knew how to feel. I mean, we're coming off of a, like feelings weren't super important in past generations. - Yeah, true. - The survival was, you know? - Yeah, fair. - I don't know a lot of like really old books that are, I mean, there are some in the psychology world there was, but emotions and the power of emotion has, is a more recently awakened thing where people are talking about it so much more. And still not everybody is. - Like, if I'm gonna just like insert a little tiny bit of a hot take that I have. - Yeah. - I actually do think this knowledge has been around for centuries, but a lot of it has lived within women. And we've often been silenced when it's come to articulating how we feel. The word hysteria was like, I'm gonna not explain this correctly exactly, but it's like basically blaming women for how they feel. And women have often tried to be, the women, the feelers and the intuitives and the empaths and the deeply connected to spirit were the witches that were burned. So I think that we've, (laughs) so like it's not that this hasn't been around. - Are we witch doctors? What do we be burned at the stake? - Oh for sure. Yeah, absolutely, I'd be burned. And proud of it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - We be burned. - Yeah, and that's just a little random hot take that I'll not spiral us into, but I think that the knowledge and the wisdom has been there, but it's been silenced by the patriarchy. - Well, I don't know why I had to sing that, but I don't know. - I do think feelings, like on the other side, not to make this all about feelings, but communication is a lot about feelings. Like we're saying, you're either communicating something logically. That, and that is why I think a lot of really heavy, like logical thinking men do really well in business and go to it like engineering or building a company or working on a car, like something that's very much. has nothing to do with feelings. It's practical, it's science, it's math, it's like this Lego piece fits with this Lego piece, you know, or it doesn't. Feelings is so much deeper and nuanced and difficult to engage with, and it's also the relationship tool. Because it's how women are. Like, I mean, there are women who are more logical and less feeling for sure. Definitely there's a spectrum and there's men who are more feeling and less logical. But I feel like I'm like right in the middle. I don't know what happened to me, but somehow I got birthed as this right in the middle of it. I don't think it's necessarily how women are. I think that everyone has the capacity to feel, but for generations, it's men have been told it's weak to do so and women have been told they're crazy when they do so. But we all have the capacity to feel and it's helpful for everyone to do so. Like, I don't think the feeling should be for the feminine and not for everyone else. Like, I think everyone has feminine and masculine energy inside of them. Everyone has capacity to feel. Everyone has feelings. It's just that a lot of us, and I don't think it's even gender specific, more so men have been told not to feel like condition not to, but women have also experienced that as well. And so we've really as a society cut ourselves off from it. And we're now learning, I feel like there's kind of a revival of it where we're learning like, oh no, feeling is actually like we kind of said earlier, like it's the sixth sense. It being able to feel is how we feel different energies. It's how we communicate. It's how we manifest. It's how we connect to God. It's how we can or higher power. Right. Feeling is, it's the communication tool. Because you are not just heard in a relationship. You are felt. If you are intimate with somebody, if you are in an intimate relationship, that person can feel you. You don't have to say a word. When you walk in a room, they can feel what you're feeling to some degree. Not. That's why we call it walking on eggshells, right? They're not saying anything, but you walk into a room with someone who's angry and you can feel that tension, right? You can feel that energy. Yeah. And then when the person asks, hey, I was your day and the person that feels all angry and is all bent up, because fine, it's like that's off-putting. That feels like you are either not being honest with yourself or you're not being honest with me. And I can't trust that. What feels better is going tough day, not really ready to talk about it, still processing it, but sorry for my energy and how that's affecting you. I'm going to go to the other room and try to handle this and come out when I all either let you in on it or I'll work on it on my own and it's nothing you need to worry about. That's trust building. Yeah, that takes an extreme amount of emotional maturity to do. Well, I'm asked what I'm trying to do. So anyone that wants to come with me, that is the goal, right? We're going there. We're going to be like, I want to communicate precisely what needs to be communicated in any given moment. Why would I want to suck at it? I'm going to say something to you. You're going to feel something, whether I say it or not, you're going to know to some degree, why do I want to hide and not? It doesn't mean I have to tell you every little thought in my head. Like I said, I can go take time to process. I can get space. I can do that, but I'm at least letting you know what I need from you or a little bit about what's going on with me so you know you can trust me. You know I'm working on it and I'm not just neglecting it because it's neglecting of your feelings is suppressing the suppression that we can do as men does lead to emotional constipation. And then it comes out in insecurities and all kinds of other ways. So basically if I'm understanding correctly, we just need to give all the men emotional enemies. But that it is helpful to have someone else show it to you. Like it's hard to deal with all on your own and understand or access those. And if you don't know what's really going on inside of you, having support and help and tools is necessary. Like this is an art. This is a this is a difficult path. Like I get you know, men who reach out and they're like, can I help on a call with you? Like what can I expect out of that call? Like they want one call to to solve it. They're like teach me what I know about communication and that way I can go and communicate better tomorrow. And it's like that's not how this works, man. Like this is a I could tell you everything about riding a motorcycle and you still won't be able to hop on and ride it unless you unless you already know how. If you don't know how to ride a motorcycle, I always bring that up because learning riding motorcycle is a little tricky and dangerous. And so if if you don't know the felt experience of it, it's something you have to literally learn physiologically how to ride a motorcycle. Learning to ride a motorcycle was challenging for me to some degree. Learning to surf was is really challenging for anyone that's tried or has learned like it can be really challenging. Take years to get good at surfing and learn the timing of it and all that because it's a felt thing. Learning to feel is like that. Learning to address your feelings and communicate. Learning to communicate well about what's going on in your internal world. Knowing when you're asking something about them or you're trying to tell them something about you or you're communicating a plan. Just even knowing that like what's three am I doing? And how do I do this properly? It's harder than learning how to surf. You have to be on top of it. You have to be learning how it's a felt thing because we speak so quick. It's like learning another language and it's the hardest one to learn. It's not logical. And you can't find it on Duolingo. You cannot find it on Duolingo. Oh, what if we could? That's a billion dollar business idea. Actually, I know there are books out there about feelings that probably can you know you can listen to and stuff. But I think it's more about you can't just listen to a book and then know how you feel. This does happen. That's what we do in our 101 sessions with people like teaching them this stuff over and over and over and over and over again until they get better at it. Yeah, I think also there's there's a layer there too and I hope I don't take it on too much of a wild deep dive but some feelings we are so afraid to feel because of our past experiences. We won't go there and allow ourselves to feel them. Yeah. And so sometimes it can take months before I can get a woman in a session to feel feelings. It can actually take a really long time to actually even build up the trust to before she's like, okay, yeah, I'll feel all I'll feel this because some of the feelings that we have are too painful. Yeah. And so we learned I'm going to suppress all of them. I don't want to feel. Feeling is pain and and I've also been told if I did it then I'm a big old baby and so I'm not going to do it. Well, and also like we might want to work on our relationship. We might want to learn communication skills. We might want to you know get less defensive but we don't want to learn how to feel and learning to feel is the root of all of that because that defensiveness you have is just trying to protect you from feeling of feeling. The way that you're selecting those words so automatically the way that you're yelling at your partner or getting aggressive with your kids or all of that is just trying to block you from feeling of feeling. And so getting better at relationship is learning how to feel. You're not to say your relationship can get better and improve without learning to feel. I do believe that. I believe there are other tools and skills you can do that can help you get better in your relationship and communication. But if you really want to open up to another level and have like a true emotional connection, it is by learning how to feel. That's that is the that's the lever to pull that's going to give you the most improvement. and really give you the thing that you actually want, which is safety, security, and relationship. - That's it. - So I'm sure people are like, oh, communication, I wanna learn how to communicate better, articulate better, nope, learn how to feel. (laughing) - I mean, maybe do a little both, but yes. At the end of the day, in relationships especially in conflict or when things are hard, knowing how you feel, so helpful, and even this, it wasn't like a small little win that you can implement, is the example earlier of when you asked me about going to the Padres game. I checked in and in the moment, I didn't feel like I could make that, just that I felt, - You felt unsure of myself. - I felt unsure of how I felt and so I communicated, I'm unsure of how I feel. - I checked back in later when I am in a better place or I'll check back in when I'm in a better place because that's how I feel. I feel unsure. - And any logical thinking man, who's really not paying attention to how he feels is so frustrated by that, because it's like, how do you not know what you want to do? How do you not know what you want? How do you, 'cause if you're in the logical, it's like this, that, this or that, it's very binary, it's very immediate. Like, can we have a meeting tomorrow? Yes or no, like I want answers and things stalling it with like, let me feel into that. It's so frustrating for any man, but pushing on that is not the move. Like especially a woman who just started her period or is like in-- - Do not push. - Do not push. And knowing and giving space for feelings allows a woman to feel seen, but also when you start to do that and give some space for your own feelings, you can really open up a lot safer of a home or a business or anything. It is, we are human beings. We all have feelings. Like a man can suppress his feelings really hard until something happens that he has to feel. A breakup, a divorce, a losing of someone, like something's gonna crack you open. Eventually this life will, you can't, no one gets out suppressing all their feelings forever. You eventually are gonna get cracked open. - Or you'll get sick. - Yeah. - From. - Truly. - Suppressing the woman. - Yeah. - Yeah. Should we do some life updates? - I just gonna say that was fun. - That was fun. - That was so fun. - Yeah, we should do some life updates. - Yeah, we don't know what we're gonna do this weekend. We're still deciding. We might go to a party this game. - We might, we might not. I also threw around the idea of taking the van, we have like an old ambulance that we kind of converted into like a little sleeper van. - We're trying to sell it. - Yeah, do you, is anyone want a van? (laughing) Come check it out. We'll give you a great deal. We met in it, so it's like, could, you know, maybe there's some magic for you if you're single and you want a van. (laughing) That's my sales pitch. I was thinking. - We might not have this podcast if I didn't have the van. - No, I don't think we would. - You wouldn't have dated me if I didn't have the van. - No, I probably still would have. But it, it was-- - It wasn't a peel. - Yeah, it's, yeah, back then I was like, oh. - That's cool. - He's got an ambulance to sleep in. This is really something. - I don't know. (laughing) It was cool. I don't know, I'm not doing myself justice. - We did have some really cool trips in that van. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. But anyways, I was thinking maybe we would take it down on the beach and can't make this weekend. - I do like that, do you? - Yeah. - Some open to that too, but we don't know. So we don't really have a great update for you there. But Sunday's Mother's Day, I'm gonna go see my mom do some shopping and I think we're gonna get lunch and go to a movie and see the girls later that night. - Yep. - Do you see your mom for Mother's Day? - Yeah, I need to call her. - You usually call your mom? - Yeah, I need to make a plan probably in the morning. I'll probably see her in the morning while you go see your mom. - Cool. - Yeah. All of the day's stressed me out. - I know. - But I do wanna, I'm just going easy with it. It's gonna be enjoyable. It's gonna be fun day. Nothing else? - I don't think so. No. - We've been really busy lately. - Yeah, massively. - Yeah, it's been really busy lately, which is good. I mean, we have a lot of clients we work with and we love them, like working with clients is, we started this podcast with the idea of just, like we honestly just didn't even know what to do. We just wanted to get this information out there. We had been studying and reading and doing courses for so long that it was like, let's just start talking and then clients started coming to us and people wanted coaching and working with clients has really been almost more fulfilling than the podcast. Because you know them, like you get to see them and you get to meet with them and see their success stories. - Oh, and when they grow or have a breakthrough, it's like. - Yeah, we have no idea who listens to the podcast. I mean, unless people message us, we don't know what to do. - Which is really cool when they do. - Yeah, it's fun. - Yeah, that is cool. That can be really fulfilling when we quietly have somebody. We've had, you know, every week or we get people randomly reaching out and be like, I love the podcast or that is really cool to get those messages. But for the bulk of it, we just put this out there and we don't know who's listening or how if you listen to the whole episode or not. So we need to start figuring out how to like get in touch with people who listen or create like a community or something like that. But you know, for now, the one-on-one coaching has been so rewarding. And we love our clients. - Yeah, it's hard that I can't talk to you about work. - I am so glad. - Yeah. - 'Cause we talk enough about like-- - Yeah, we do healing and this stuff. - The podcast and yeah, healing and filling. - Healing and filling and that. - Relationships. - Yeah, it's nice. - Mm-hmm, yeah, we really can't like, we can't talk about our clients so we don't get to share a lot of work stories. But it's probably a good thing. - Oh, it's definitely a good thing. - Yeah. - We need some balance out. We need to go take care of ourselves this weekend. We need a little like, we didn't really take weekends off for a while too. We were working. - Well, that's probably actually the more honest update for me was I went through, I think it was like a week or two ago. I just went, oh my gosh, I am so burnt out. - Yeah. - We've been really working almost seven days a week for two and a half years. - For two and a half years. - And not working full days every day, but like at least doing something we're correlated every day. And I hit a wall. And I actually like set a boundary with you, not like in a, not that you did anything wrong, but I was like, - No, it was a good boundary. - I can't talk about work. Like zero conversations about it. And that was tremendously helpful. And I just like took care of myself. I didn't think about work. I didn't do anything work related for a few days just to like give myself a little bit of a reset because you cannot pour out of an empty cup. - Truly. - And I was like, I'm doing a disservice to my clients if I'm not taking better care of myself. So did some resting and I'm actually really working on not working on the weekends. Because. - Yeah, and we got like a bad dynamic a little bit where because we were both working so much and we care so much about what we do and put so much effort into it. Like it's not a complaint at all. Like we love what we do and we were so thankful for everything that has happened here. But I was so used to you. Like it was almost like an open freedom to like anything around the podcast, anything like, oh, we should talk about that topic or anything around relationships or anything around, you know, being like coaching training or somatic therapy that we're in of course for. Like was just kind of on the table. So we could be watching a show or hanging out or having dinner and I could just throw a thought at you. It was like I didn't have a filter because for a long time that was what we were doing. We were building this and trying to create something and then it got to a point where yeah, that's the boundary. It's like, hey, I can't just have those thoughts launched over at any given time. And this could be for, I mean, we can do a whole episode on this and boundaries, but like learning how to hold back some of those things has been really helpful for our dynamic, but it's been hard for me because it was almost like a free, it was free game for a long time. You were down and I overloaded you because I can be a lot when it comes to this stuff. (laughing) And it's been good, the boundary's been good. It's been needed. Yeah, for me too, I actually have to turn my brain off to you. That's why I was like my brain went, okay, I'm gonna turn my brain off with this. Like let's go watch sports. (laughing) That's not what I do when I turn my brain off. (laughing) Good stuff. All right, well, thank you all. so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode as much as we enjoyed recording it. If you did, we would love if you sent it to a friend, left us a comment or subscribed. And we'll catch you all next week. Love you guys. Love you bye.