EP 104: Mastering the Art of Facebook Groups with Kerry Quinn

Hello and welcome to the Marketing Systems for Success podcast. I'm your host Helen and I'm here to take you behind the scenes and show you how to grow your audience, use systems to automate your admin and discover unique ways to make your marketing feel simpler. None of us wake up randomly knowing how to do all this without being shown. So this podcast is going to take you one step closer to feeling like the expert marketer inside your own business. Make sure you tune in every week to hear the latest interviews and mini how-to training sessions that are going to inspire you to take action today. So if you're ready let's dive in. Hello and welcome to this new episode. So today I am joined by one of my lovely clients Kerry who's here to talk to us all about her businesses and her marketing experience. So I'm going to hand over to Kerry straight away say hello and would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself and your business Kerry? Yes hello thank you for inviting me on Helen and thank you for listening everybody. I am Kerry I suppose I should start by saying I'm an ex-teacher because I know many people are teachers turn business owners. So I'm actually an ex-assistant head. I worked in a primary school for over 15 years so it was in there a long time and had my little boy in 2020 during the pandemic and ended up leaving. So now my business is the teacher marketer and I help kind of education businesses mainly with their marketing on social media and more specifically at the moment I'm finding a lot of people wanting help with Facebook groups because it's such a great place to find new students, new parents and engage with the local community. So that's where I am. I also have a second business called the play funner which we might touch on as we go through the conversation but that's helping parents engage in play at home with their ones and it's focused in the early years really but it's kind of that complementary play with school kind of that transition. That's amazing thank you. Multi-talented lots of businesses on the go. Yeah and they like that. Spin in lots of plates. Yeah. Aren't we all I think everyone was just nodding in understanding there. So how long have you been running your businesses for now? So I left I had to think about this actually I left teaching so I went back after a year when I had my son so Alfa was born in June 2020 and in 2021 in the June I went back to school and then I left in February so it was February 2022 and as soon as I kind of left from burnout which I know is a familiar story for many teachers unfortunately but it kind of got to the point for me where I couldn't sort of stay and I didn't see you know it was for health reasons really that I stepped away but I found within a couple of months I sort of had these ideas spinning around in my head I'm not very good at sitting still. So the play planner was kind of the first business that I sort of came into existence during that time. I mean obviously it was kind of prior to leaving teaching actually if I go back a little bit further while I was on maternity leave I built a community on Instagram with the play planner and I found there was a lot of parents at that time needing support with the little ones at home because obviously we didn't have access to a lot of the community resources at that time so things like health visitors just were non-existent for many people, baby groups and etc like that so that's kind of really when that started and also my love of like marketing and social media started at that time as well. So yeah before I even left teaching it was kind of like I had these ideas in motion and I think really that was kind of the thing that pushed me in the end to leave the job. So yeah I would say it was a couple of months after leaving in the February that I kind of felt brave enough I suppose to kind of say oh I've got a business and it felt really strange at first and I have to say I don't know if anyone can relate to this but I just felt like it wasn't a real thing for ages and just kind of felt like I was playing it a little bit and it was really tricky it was much more tricky than I thought to transition from that teacher mindset and that kind of monthly wage to sort of trying to win money on your own like as a business. So I actually got my first sort of jobs or freelance jobs through an agency which I still kind of work a little bit with which was absolutely life-saving at the time because it gave me that confidence to think oh I can do this I can go on my own and then from there sort of you know branched out to areas that I really enjoyed like the social media marketing and working with particular education businesses because I just felt I really wanted to kind of stay in the community and I also you know I've got a real strong passion for kind of like improving education and you know for children and it's kind of helping those education businesses with social media felt like a really good way to kind of get their voice out and share their products and services so yeah it's kind of carried on from there so it's been a couple of years now and I've been on a very bumpy roller coaster I'm still on a roller coaster and yeah it's I wouldn't change it I wouldn't change it yeah amazing and I think it was so interesting what you said there about like the first few months it felt like you were kind of playing business a little bit and I think I think a lot of us feel like this don't we like in the beginning it fits like you sort of raises like side hustle or bit of our hobby or something like that so what what do you think was the turning point for you like what what sort of happened or what maybe shift in your mind so did you have that made you sort of sit there and be like no actually this is a legitimate business I think it was genuinely working with other people and being in communities most online obviously at the time um early on where there were other business people and I kind of saw them in real life and said oh you do this as well and it kind of gave a flesh to it I mean I I was working as an associate VA at first so I already had that sort of small community of people that were doing it and to be honest before I became a VA I didn't even know VA was a real job and like when I when I heard of it I was like this is not a real job people don't do this but yeah it was you know it was just like so I open it and then I think as my network and as I got sort of to know people and and build friendships with people it really became a real thing for me because leaving a school community friends you know colleagues I was assistant head so I was you know a leader in many aspects of what I was doing to kind of be an on my own in my attic office like very screen mostly deliver in work to people without really speaking to them at first it wasn't until I kind of made those connections really I think that it became quote unquote real and I thought this can be a thing but I don't think I have a lactambeish and I always kind of thought one of the most exciting things for me when I left teaching was you know money has no ceiling now and it was never all it was never about money as such like for me I was chasing the freedom and the flexibility especially around my son and I wanted to be able to pick him up from school and all of that but I'm not going to lie that money was an aspect of thinking oh I can work less hours and actually earn as much as I can earn like there's no ceiling on this anymore there's no sort of salary so that felt exciting as well and I think it was a bit of a shock to the system and it didn't just instantly happen I'm sure lots of you can relate kind of you're looking online and you know you're scrolling through people's you know feeds and you think gosh you can be an overnight success or you can have a passive income or you know and all these things which you realize down like twitching at that yeah I'm going to be totally honest and say that at first that was really exciting to me and I think there was a few like rude awakenings in terms of oh you do have to show up oh you do have to be consistent and actually you know you you have to do the scary things to get there yeah that's kind of being a journey but yeah it was definitely my network widening that made it feel real for me yeah yeah it's it's so true isn't it I think and when you're first looking through that social media and you're looking at all this stuff it's that whole it takes a while to sort of remember I think you're looking at someone's chapter 100 and you're still on chapter one and like you know we all want to shortcut our way to that sort of fast bit and I think look you know some you know sort of chapters do go quicker than others but ultimately like to to get to that place where you're in that kind of like as you say hiring come and more freedom it it takes a lot of hard work that actually people don't talk that much about behind the scenes yeah and I know we were just talking before we came on and hit record about mindset and I think for me that has been the biggest thing for sure like the biggest journey that I've been on I mean I mentioned I left teaching from burnout you know I had a baby in the pandemic we were in the hospital for three or four days without anyone and there was a lot of trauma there that I didn't realise because I just kind of we just got on with it had a newborn I went back to work and you know it wasn't until I actually left my job in the February and I remember being sat in my house and it was just like just me the quiet Alfie was at nursery and you know I was just numb and I thought I'm not well like I am burnout and actually as much as I'd love to sort of hop back on a treadmill and keep going and make this money and do these amazing things I can't and I kind of it was a real process to go through that healing and actually I was looking because my school because I'd left for health reasons for mental health reasons I got hooked up with a counselor for a short time as well and that was through the school kind of occupational therapists and it was just the best thing because it made me that I could get it all out to her and you know it was just you know sounding bored and I worked through some of those things but you know I'm two years down the line I feel healed from that but there's other mindset things that have come up for me that I didn't even know were there we were just talking about money mindset and that kind of you know getting in your own way when it comes to communicating with people and selling new products and I know lots of people in the teaching and tutoring more can definitely relate to that like selling to people is so tricky when you come from that background. people anyway. So yeah, I think it's just like that's been the biggest thing for me in terms of like I suppose working through and it's exciting. It is a journey and I accept it as a journey. I'm quite an impatient person. I like things to be done today or yesterday. But I've had to be patient with myself and recognize actually it's good to reach out. It's good to get help at the right time for the right thing like at the start. It was for the building out, the mental hell. Now it's around that mindset. It's around that kind of like planning and active action taken and all that kind of thing. But yeah, it's definitely been a journey. It's I think I think everything you're saying is so relatable. Like I think for me, I'm exactly saying this is why we work so well together. I'm also very impatient. Like as soon as I've made a decision, I'm like, well, why has it not been done already? You know, but I know like from what you were saying there, I was thinking back like when I first started, I also had that kind of, I guess that feeling of like, why is this so hard and difficult? Like because again, you say, you're looking at all this stuff online. Everyone seems to be finding it quote unquote easy. That's the dream you're being sold. And I remember being like, you know, why am I getting my own way so much? Why is this so difficult? And it is, you know, I'm seven years in now of doing this by myself. And I think for me, there's almost been this kind of acceptance of like there's always going to be something around the corner. Like just as I tick one thing off and I sort of feel like I've got over something that's holding me back, something else will will come round and and you know, like sometimes catch you by surprise, but I think if you're almost half expecting it, you can you can learn to deal with it a lot quicker, can't you? And you can nip it in the bar, rather than letting it take over. Yeah, I was just thinking when you was talking that it's about building that toolkit, isn't it? Because it's a cliche, but things don't get easier. They just get different. Like you like you said, you kind of overcome one quote unquote challenge and then another one comes along. And that's the nature of it. You know, if you want, especially if you want to grow and change, you know, and introduce new services, new things, but even if you don't, even if you kind of do in the same groups or the same teaching, the same subjects, there's always going to be things that are different in your environment and things around you. And it's the tools that you take with you that help you through those challenges. And I think like you say, accepting there was going to be challenges is kind of the biggest and best tool you can have. And then for me personally, it's been accepting that actually to get help in terms of like a coyote or professional support or a network or group network or something is one of my biggest tools because it makes me feel less alone. It gets me to kind of talk about my, you know, things that I'm finding tricky or celebrate things that have gone well. And you know, for me, that's an essential tool, but it's just going through these challenges, kind of as a pair was with a, you know, a bit of a skipping you step knowing you will get through it. It's a pair, you know, it's a short period and as much as it can feel really tricky at the time, you know, it, you will get through it. But I think for me, it's like, I need to prioritize feeling safe. And I think in the start, it was kind of as soon as my teacher wage finished, I had not matched my teacher wage at that time. And there was a period of time where I did feel really insecure financially. I mean, look at my wife was able to support us financially at that time. But we had done maternity leave for a whole year. So I'd taken a massive pick up before that and, you know, all of these things. So, you know, I realized pretty quickly that a priority for me had to be, you know, feeling financially safe so that I could make bolder decisions when it came to my business and what I wanted to do. Because having all these ideas is great. But if you don't, you know, you know, your money's not coming in the bank. It comes from a real place of scarcity and fear. That's not helpful when you try to sell things. Yeah. No, exactly. It is, again, we could have a huge chat, couldn't we now about sort of money mindset and everything. But it's true. Like when you have that kind of scarcity feeling, it's hard to sell. Because like you say, there's a feeling of like, I hate to say it, but like desperation. And I do think that comes across. Like it's not, I don't think it comes across in like the wording. And this is a bit woo-woo. And I'm not the most woo-woo person in the world. But like, there's that energy transfer isn't there. And I feel like that sort of desperation comes through in a different way. And people just don't kind of bond and connect to you as easily. And then I also like you say, I think it's then really hard to make decisions in your business. Because if I say this with, you know, care and compassion, I think the curse of a lot of people when they start their businesses and teachers, I think, are quite guilty of this. And I can say this as an ex, kind of teacher too, as well, is that we hate letting go of control. Like we hate asking other people to do things for us. It's just, it's just not something we've really done before. So I think that kind of mindset, combined with that kind of scarcity mindset as well, just makes decision-making and making big changes in your business so difficult. And I, you know, so many people I've worked with, like that is the brick wall that they're up against when I meet them. And, you know, it's kind of breaking free of that, isn't it, to help you move forward? Yeah, absolutely. And I think the minute you sort of pull the plug, if you like, and take the plunge, you realize you're like, where is this being my whole life? Like, it's just like this wave of relief. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I actually thought this year, you know, about kind of getting some support in terms of like a VA or something with aspects of my business. I mean, the first kind of, I suppose, other than paying for coaches, the first hire that I did was an accountant. And I would 100% recommend, I'm recommend. That is anxiety I cannot go with. Spreadsheets are not my thing. So, yeah, I think it's identifying those aspects of, you know, your work, your day-to-day work that cause you that little bit extra stress or kind of those things that are just not your natural fear. And like you say, I think teachers were creatures of a multitude of talents and, you know, absolutely amazing at what, you know, people teachers do in the classroom day-to-day, but ultimately we spin a thousand plates. And you come out of that system and you think, well, I should still be able to spin a thousand plates, but the truth is there's no need to firstly and secondly, a different place and not necessarily plates you've spun before. So, it's really good to kind of, you know, think, well, I'm not an accountant. So perhaps someone else can help me with that. Or, you know, I really don't like, you know, this aspect of my business, whether it's, you know, post on social media or whatever. And there are people you can, you know, pay to get support. And actually, when you do that, you do open the gates to earn more money anyway. So it kind of does pay up in the end, but it's a really tricky step to take. Yeah. It's that thing isn't it of like, again, it's the mindset and it's wording, you know, it's like it's an investment not a cost. Like, I used to pull my hair out when I used to look on forums and people would be like, I'm not paying for Zoom. This is outrageous. I'd be like, this is like the plumber turning up at your house saying, oh, no, I'm not going to buy any tools. I'm going to do it with my hands, but don't worry. It'll be fine. And I think, I think that's the problem right. When you go into it, looking at it, like, these are all costs, you need to look at it and think, actually, how is that going to make me money? And look, you know, I've not got shares or affiliate links for Zoom here, but it's that whole thing. There's so many different options out there. But it's, yeah, it's that big thing of just kind of like letting, let it go a little bit and accepting that there's going to be things that you need to help you along the way. Yeah. And removing the friction, you know, with like Zoom, I know you can get free 30 minutes, for example. But if that's causing your lesson to have friction or you just can't imagine, you know, doing it without a suppose as a tutor. But yeah, there's just things, you know, like I pay for chat GPT now, I find that really helpful. And you know, there's just things as you go along. I mean, but also do always reflect on what you're paying for. What are you exactly like? I'm very guilty if I'm in subscriptions. I've got. So yeah, yeah, it is a it is a mindset thing. And I think let you go with that control, like you say, is probably that one of the trickiest steps to take, especially if you're used to, you know, like I say, spending so many plates within a classroom, for example, or a school. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's one of these things as well. Like, I don't know a single person who runs her own business who didn't go through that struggle of letting go of control. You know, we were literally talking about it, weren't we? So the time that's recording during this week, we had like an annual planning day. And yeah, someone it might even been yourself, carry on someone like really interestingly said, you know, you always sit there feeling like, oh, but I can do it really well or no one can do it like me. But that really powerful question of like, yeah, but what if someone could actually do it better than you? Like what impact would that have on your business if you could ask for help and they could do it better? I'm a scary what scary thought that someone can do better than you. I know I think that's I'm a perfectionist. I'll hold my hands up. I am a perfectionist. And I think, you know, if you are thinking about reaching out to a VA or a social media manager or a coach or something, you know, yeah, consider your systems to help you let go of the control. It can be done. It can be done. And people do it in a very nurturing, caring way. You know, just pull the rug out from under your social media and start posting. It's true. I mean, actually, me, while on the topic of marketing, let's talk marketing. Because obviously that's sort of mainly what you're doing at the moment with the Teach Marks set. So one question I wanted to ask was how did you how did you get into it? Because you've gone from sort of you said the teaching the play planner, you did a bit of stuff with like the VA world. Like what made you decide marketing was the thing you really wanted to help tutors with? I think like I said early on in, you know, during my maternity, I built this kind of quite thriving community on Instagram at the time. And I just saw the power up until that point. I was very much as many teachers are pretty much like hands off when it came social media. I was on Facebook. I had an Instagram profile and me and my wife went through IVF for a couple of years to get Alfie. So we actually did a double with some kind of like IVF profile as well that was private and kind of basically saw the power of community. And it was pretty incredible really. And I think as well, obviously technology and social media has gone through such a change in those times. I mean, it's crazy to think what it was like in 2019 compared to now, it's such a change. But I just saw the power of community, I saw the power of like outreach and just sharing your voice. I became a bit addicted to like the storytelling aspect and kind of, you know, giving people and their businesses a voice to tell their individual story, to show their personality, to kind of engage with their audience. It was just a bit addictive. And I think the more kind of admin side of things was never really my thing anyway. So when I was doing VA, I very much gravitated towards that sort of creation and communication and content creation and all of that. So it was a bit of a natural transition to kind of specialising social media. And in terms of working with education businesses, it was just, it just felt like a natural fit. You know, it felt like we were all flying the same flag. You know, we wanted quality, you know, opportunities for children outside of school when it came to tutoring and that kind of thing. So it just worked really well. So it's been in developing. It's still developing in terms of like serving my audience in the best way. And I think there's moving forward into 2025 for social media. It's going to be very much focused on video. I'd say sorry. Yeah, not on video and communities. So, you know, I can help you with that. I mean, short, short, long video, builds people with a dread. But it doesn't really, I think the days are leaving us. I hate to say this, but I really do because they are easy to make. The kind of B-roll text overlay, Instagram style is slowly leaving us for, you know, in favour of kind of face to camera or kind of talking about what you, what you kind of offer and showing your personality. And I know lots of people don't like doing that. There are ways around it. But I think it's just kind of, it's a fast-moving industry. And I think the main thing that seems to have kind of followed us year on year is that community. It's what I fell in love with to start with. That's still a thing. Which is why I really enjoy Facebook groups, actually, because that is about community, especially if you're in local groups and things. But it's a really good way to engage with potential clients and just kind of find out what people's pain points are and put your face and name out there. I'm so with you. I've always also always flown the flag of Facebook groups and things. Because personally, for the page, the individual stuff, I just don't get on with it. I don't get anything from it. Whereas the community, like you say, you always get so much more from people. But I think, you know, I don't even feel agree with me, but I definitely feel like starting a group. That's the hardest bit. I've always said to my clients, the first naught to a couple of hundred, naught to five hundred people feels like a slog, but sort of after that it gets going. So like, let's say one of the listeners came to you and they wanted your help, you know, with their Facebook groups or maybe they were starting them from scratch. Like what sort of advice, what sort of things would you help them with to get it going? In terms of creating your own Facebook group and your own community, firstly, I would say I think really carefully about that because it is a huge amount of work. And like you say, it does take, I mean, there are exceptions to this, but it does take a lot of time and a lot of energy to build that community and it can feel like crickets for a long time. But you know, if you wanted to create your own Facebook group, first and foremost, I would say consider your audience really carefully. Who do you want in there? Because it can be tempting to, you know, accept everyone and anyone into it. But it's really kind of important to keep a Facebook group true to the purpose of it. So if you're, except for example, biology, A level teacher, you want, you know, either your A level students in there or you want parents of A level students in there. You don't just want other tutors and lots of other people kind of coming in because what that will do is make engagement even harder and make it feel like even more kind of talking to yourself. And also utilize group features like you can set rear-care in post, for example, which is really helpful. You can do kind of automations in there that keeps it going even if you're kind of flagging a little bit in terms of posting content. But I do think consistency is key for everything on social media. We were just talking about this before actually, weren't we? Because I think, yeah, I was guilty as anyone of finding that hard because it is hard. It is hard showing up consistently, especially if you feel like, you know, you are talking to nobody or you're not getting the kind of engagement you once did, for example. I know we see that a lot on Instagram and the engagement rates of, you know, for everybody across the board have dropped for lots of reasons because they've just got a million features over there now and it's not as easy as it once was. So, yeah, Facebook groups keep going, be consistent with your post and use automations to help you be consistent where you can. Don't rely on automations. Our only automations make it as a community as possible. So, you know, reach out to the community. Perhaps, you know, get kind of engagement posts on a weekly kind of rolling schedule. And also utilize content you've got on other platforms in that group. You know, don't reinvent the wheel. You will have content that's gone out onto Facebook page or on Instagram page or wherever you post. Make sure it goes in the group as well. But try and keep a little bit of exclusivity in there as well. You want a reason for people to join the group. And if it's just your own normal content going into there, there's no reason for people to be in there. So, really think about why is this group here? What is it giving to people? For example, a really easy thing you could do is some like quick lives in there. Life's head minute lives. You know, for example, the A level teacher might be that you're doing a demonstration about some, a question, exam question, for example, doing a little mini series. And it's a lead magnet then. And on that note, if you are doing a Facebook group for your community, make it a lead magnet. Make sure it's in your funnel and make sure it's linked to your emails when you collect in people's email addresses wherever possible as well. Because it's, you know, it's your time and energy is going into that. It's an asset. But your email email is just a thing you own. I mean, I know you'll find the fight for this Helen. You group could get closed down at the end of the day. You don't own the group. But if you collect an email addresses as well, then that's a double whammy. So do that. 100%. I mean, I'm not going to lie to you. That was one of the main reasons why I had a group back in the day when I first started it was to collect, it was just another, you know, me all roads lead to the email email sort of marketing. And it was just one of the best ways. I've been with them while tutoring business. I think at least half my list came from a face just having a Facebook group and just asking people, do you want to sign up to a mailing list? It was amazing. It's every week. It just chipped away. It just grew by like two or three percent every week, which didn't feel like loads. But of course, you know, that compounded sort of up and up and yeah, ended up with, you know, I ended up having to cut the list because it was so high and it was about such charging me a lot more money. So I got to like be really like discerning about who was on there. What was going on? I got to be mad. Yeah. Yeah, they can work really, really well. But like I said, right at the beginning of the answer to that question, think very carefully because I mean, I've done it as well. I've started groups. I've, you know, with all the best intentions and then forgotten to pay, because it's not being on my schedule. I've not been consistent like golden word consistency. Yeah. And it just felt like, you know, a thing I had to manage that really wasn't bringing me anything. So the minute you, you know, if you've got a group right now and you think you're well, this isn't, I don't know if it's working for me or not. Think about the goal of the group, first of all, go back to why you did it. You know, was it just to kind of because she thought you had to do it? And, you know, that's okay if you thought that at the start because lots of people do groups because they think they have to do it. You don't have to do it by the way. Yeah. Instead of why, you know, why it's there and then go back to that original goal, give it, you know, another 90 days, if you've got it in you another 90 days and really track the progress of the group, you know, really look at your analytics, focus on the group and if it's still not working, cut the group, you know, if it's draining your time and energy and it's not doing anything for you, then cut the group. There was a bit of a golden age for Facebook groups at one point when they were growing really fast. I think nowadays people are part, I mean, look at your own Facebook. How many groups are you part of? I imagine it's more than 30. I mean, mine's way above that. But basically what that means is your group is not necessarily being seen by all your members or even a small percentage of the members unless it's very active. So there was a bit of a golden age. I think we have asked that golden age, but that's not to say they're not useful. If you don't want to create your own group or your own group, not working for you, then utilize other people's groups. There are so many brilliant groups, local groups that you can post, you know, in and you actually can advertise in some. Absolutely, lots of groups have specific days where you can advertise or times of the week or whatever, but also leaving breadcrumbs in there as well. I know we talk about this a lot in the tutoring community don't we? But it's answering questions, being helpful, you know, it's kind of like shiftily putting in there, what you do without sort of selling to be respectful to the group and obviously be helpful as well. You want to be helpful. So find groups where your ideal client go and, you know, what they've signed up for. You know, I would start local always. So even if you're an online tutor, still start local because ultimately people trust you if you're from their village. I was so true. I mean, you've got to start somewhere, haven't you? It's the problem with being online. It's like, how well? So the world. So where do you start? Exactly. Exactly. We do wait for the time together. Don't we? It's the ripple effect. Like start your own little ripple local and then go from there. Exactly. Like mum's in business groups, you know, they'll be at least one or two very local to you. You know, I'm in Donkastor. So we've got all the I think Donkass is the other one that's left out actually, a bit of Sheffield Lee, the other one else has got one. I think like places like that, you know, you might not be obvious, but a lot of mums in business have children that are at the age of tutoring, for example. So, and yeah, they might not allow, you know, to plus to your advertising in there, but actually that's not a great way to advertise anyway. You just kind of need to present in those groups, active, helpful, and kind of the person that's to go to. And if you are posting imagery in groups about your services, stick to the same kind of images and colours, because people skim very often when they're looking in groups, and if, you know, you're blue and yellow, or whatever colour it is that you've got, keeps coming up, you know, when their cousin says to them, "Oh, I'm looking for a tutor, blah, blah." They will say, "Oh, there's this tutor actually, in this group that I keep seeing, maybe should check them out." So it's that sort of similar breadcrum effect, like it's leaving your mark almost. But yeah, there's a lot of potential in Facebook groups, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I 100% agree with everything you just said. And I think it's very true about like the golden age of Facebook groups has kind of disappeared. Like I would say it was probably about four years ago, like they were sort of doing really well, but like I noticed this over the past few months, there's been some big names out there who have sort of publicly closed down their groups and things like that. And I think that made a lot of people feel like, "Oh, well, if they're doing it, then obviously it's not going to work for me." But I think something I really thought about and spoke to a few clients about was that ultimately, those groups had maybe thousands of people in it. And I think with Facebook groups and communities, there's a real sweet spot, isn't there? Of like having enough in people that it feels busy and engaged, and there's a lot of engagement, but also not so big that new people, you know, don't feel like they can't get involved. 'Cause I think that was sometimes the thing is people are victim of their own success. Their group got so big that it actually, it lost its, maybe it's core and a lot of people then, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm like that. If I go into a group and there's 15,000 people in there, it's pretty unlikely that I'm going to be posting. But if I join a group with a couple of hundred or a thousand people, much less bothered by it, 'cause I feel like there's a bit more going on. So yeah, I think there's, that's another thing, isn't it? Like the vanity metrics of social media, how we get so obsessed with numbers and things. But actually, we all know we'd rather have 100 super engaged members than 10,000 people who don't even see our posts anymore, 'cause the algorithm doesn't show it to them. Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's like with everything on social media, we, I always start with a question, why, why are you doing it? What's the purpose? Because if you are just doing it because you think you're sure that everyone else is, et cetera, et cetera, that's not a good enough reason. And it's the same with like the number of social media platforms you're using, for example. I know people are venturing out now to kind of tick-tock and blue sky and all these places. That's okay if you've got a really clear purpose why. I think we're entering a really interesting age in social media now where there is not one platform takes it all. It's very much each platform has its individual style and features and people tend to gravitate towards one or two, general public people. And so it's finding where your kind of people are, but also where you comfortable, like if you don't like posting short-form video, for example, maybe stay away from tick-tock. If you like, you know, you like doing spare the moment, you know, chatty, you know, blue sky kind of, you know, the ex of the new ex of the day or threads might be a good place to go. But if you, you know, searching for parents, think about where they are, like where are they going? I think this is why Facebook groups serve its tutors really well because, you know, many, many parents, when it comes to their children and finding out things for their children and about their children, they tend to go where the communities are. It's that kind of like community-raised village situation. You know, Instagram, it's hard to find information on there. Tick-tocks a bit more like a search engine, a bit more like Google. I think Facebook is where people go to try and find a service. If you were trying to find a gardener, you would go to Facebook groups, right? If you're trying to find a tutor, I would go to Facebook groups first and have a look. So yeah, it's just thinking about, thinking about it like that. It's a really interesting one, though, isn't it? Because I think it's hard for that balance, right? Because I think, you know, you and I both, we both help people with marketing and we'll probably resay to them, like, you've also got to enjoy what you're doing because again, you keep saying, like, consistency is so important. But it's interesting. I think something I'm kind of happy to share later down the line now, is that like, before I started doing any of this stuff, like back when I was just doing tutoring, I hated social media. And like, even to this day, I can't even pretend that I love it and I want to be there all the time. But what I kind of realised in the early days was like, you know, and this is kind of what I say to people now, like, okay, you don't like it. Kind of tough, you know? Like, because if that's where your audience is, you've got to kind of learn to like it. And that's how I felt about Facebook was that I didn't, I never enjoyed being on there. But I then ended up just making a whole separate account, made it into a whole business thing. And then it very much became like, this is just a part of my business. This isn't actually like my personal social media. But I think like you said, it's, you've got to enjoy it and you've got to make the content you like. But most importantly is where, where is your audience? Because if you're going onto these platforms, like, I had it personally for me, I had it with Instagram. I started Instagram account for the tutoring and just nothing came of it. Like, randomly I got an adult learner who wanted English as a foreign language. But the other thing to do was tutoring, you know? And I realized like, I'm putting hours every week and creating this content back in the day on Instagram. And it's not doing anything. But I'm over here because I feel like I like it more than Facebook. But I'm literally wasting my time. Like, I go post on a Facebook group and I get inquiry. So, yeah, I think that's the thing. Like, yes, I did say you have to enjoy it. And I believe that 100%. Like, especially if you're making content, you know, if you self it, don't forget you can outsource some of this as well. I think that's important to say. And I think there is, yes, original content does really well on some of these platforms. Yes, there's some incredible content creators out there. Amazing. Don't hold yourself up against there, because, you know, generally, like, there's, you don't have to create, you know, reinvent the wheel, create these amazing things. And we can follow trends and we can look at what's working and what gets engagement. And that's great. And it does help with audience growth. But, you know, all roads need to lead to email marketing. That, you know, I will fight like I will. Thank you. Thank you. Every client I work with, you know, I ask why and I ask where is it going? Why, you know, where is this path going? Because social media is not the start and end of your marketing. 100% no. It's a free resource we need to be utilised and you're kind of crazy not to. But at the end of the day, you know, you want to capture your audience, you want to gather people, can you see your community? And like we've just talked about Facebook groups, that's a great way to do that. But as we said there, you want that net of the email, you know, getting the email. And if it's not when they come in the group, perhaps you're sharing lead magnets in there, perhaps doing free workshops where people have to sign up in there. Because you want people on your list. And I think, you know, that's where, you know, one of the kind of non-negotiable's come in, isn't it? It's the email and it's the kind of speaking to people via email. Because that's where you make those personal connections. You go straight into someone's inbox to talk to them. So yeah, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, wherever you, you know, lay your heart, it's brilliant. But think about, you know, why am I creating this content? What is it telling my audience to do in terms of a next step? And how am I nurturing people so that they want to take that next step with me? - 100%. 100%. - Oh, we could talk about this. - Okay, but we're, we are, we are going to be towards the end of the episode now. So just on a slightly different note then. So as you mentioned at the beginning, you and I carry, we've worked together for a while now. We've done loads of stuff with your business for the, for the play planner and for the teach marketers. So just obviously, you know, you're the person to go to sort of tutors and helping like with the social media and things like that. But if someone was thinking about sort of coming and working with, you know, with me inside the accelerate program inside the community, what would you say has been the most helpful things for you so far from it all? - I mean, I think I've said this word a lot during this podcast, but I would say community is so key for me. Like, and I know for everybody in there as well, like just, I've really, I mean, I know, and this is kind of why you say up on a Monday and originally why it was called the Love Monday Club. Because it's just that touch point and a Monday morning. That's with, you know, the group program that's just so great for me. Like, it's a time in my diary that I look forward to every single week. You know, we have a real kind of, although it, there's a lot of time to kind of talk in there. I feel like the structure really helps. Like we do the goal setting at the beginning of the month. We do the know your numbers, which we all get. Oh, yes, for our numbers, oh yes, of course. - But yeah, I think it just, it helps me to kind of stay accountable to those monthly touch points. Because it can be, you know, you can get very consumed with like the stuff in your business, like whether it's delivering services, whether it's, you know, creating new training or creating a social media content. I think that kind of like overview of your business is really important to get, however you choose to do that. And the group that we're part of with you, you know, and your leadership in that group, it just helps us to kind of really stay accountable to ourselves. But also, you know, gives us a space to kind of go, "It's really hard if we don't know what we're doing." Or like things have gone really well, I'm accelerating. And, you know, that's been really good. And I really enjoy like the in-person events that we've had. I mean, I've said, I think I said earlier in the episode, you know, networking for me and like finding a community has just been game-changing for me. And I couldn't do this without that. And to be honest, I'm a bit of an introvert. I know you might not think that that I am. But I quite like being on my own. So having that kind of like community that I trust and, you know, can talk to you and get into now more and more, you know, it's really nice. And it kind of makes you feel part of something. And I think when you leave the classroom, you realise that's a missing piece. So yeah, that has been brilliant for so many reasons. And then obviously we went together and as a one-to-one as well in the accelerate probe. And that choice for me was based on the commitment to the business and kind of, you know, if I invent, I think investing is hard at first, but once you've kind of done it, you realize it is just that it's an investment and actually for me, I know there's certain aspects of my mindset, certain aspects of you know, taking action, being brave kind of and just being accountable that I needed that more one to one kind of working with you to kind of to invest that, you know, into myself, I suppose. So yeah, I know it kind of are three months kind of finished in December and I was like, please, please keep me like don't leave me because I just think it's like I've just realized the value of that. Well, yeah, it's not been a sudden realization, but I know the value of that support. So it's been brilliant and you know, you're always on the end of a WhatsApp in that program, which is amazing. So I know you have used the hours, but I'm like, if I'm having a bit of a down day, I'm like, you know, I know, I know you're laughing at me when I say my WhatsApp's because I read them back and I'm like, I've just told them my own problem and solution in that message, but sometimes it's just knowing someone's at the other side, you know, that you're paying to listen to your problems. It's essentially business therapy, isn't it? That's how I describe it to some people. I think that's basically what it is. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think it's that forward momentum. I think between the group and the one to one, for me, that's creating a forward momentum that makes me feel like I am not alone and I am taking steps towards those bigger goals for myself. Oh, well, thank you for that. That was so lovely. I really appreciate all of that. And I think, I think you've summarized it a beautiful way. I mean, as you're listening to, I'm like, I need to write this down. I don't know if I'm a graphic Alan. But you know what? I think, you know, something you touched on there and I think that, you know, this is your right. This is the kind of support that I try and provide for you guys. It's like the one to one, like it is, it's really personal. It's really, it's confidential. You know, it's a place for you to kind of come and like, you know, air all the challenges you've got and sort of talk through what we can do with it. And yeah, I mean, the community, for me, that's the part of it. I love the most as well with those Monday calls. And the fact that we do just have this weekly routine every month. You know, like we did the goal setting thing recently, didn't we for the whole year and I'll say to everyone right, we're not putting the goals on a scrap piece of paper and then totally forgetting about them. Like they are actually in the planner that we use every month. So when I ask you in six months time, what were you talking about in January, it's not like a weird distant memory of that random goal setting session that you did and they never thought about again. And yeah, the know your numbers is my absolute favorite. Like I know everyone kind of like, like the month rolls around so quickly, but it's no. Yeah, like you know it as well. Don't you from like marketing like data is just the most that you talk about. You talk about analytics in your group. Like the data is just the most important thing. And as an English teacher, I used to hate numbers. I used to English was like, maths was never my thing. But but now it's what I obsess over because it's like, if I have a quiet month and I wonder why I just have to go look at that tracker and it'll tell me straight away what I've been up to and what's what's not worked and what's worked. Yeah, and it makes you know, it makes it less personal data, doesn't it? It's not more about you. It's about what if what if or get curious about the numbers. But yeah, I think that kind of having that structure like you say in the month just really helps. Do you come back to things because you are spinning a thousand plates. There's no doubt about it. And I think like if you try to have your eyes on everything all the time. And it also helps me to block time out in my diary, you know, I look at my Google calendar and I'm like, okay, right this, oh, it's no your numbers. Oh, yeah, it's the end of the month. Maybe I should block out a little bit of time extra to do that, you know, and I sort of put an extra hour and all to kind of reflect on that a little bit more, you know, after the session or before the session might ever so yeah, it's so helpful and I think to be part of a membership like that just keeps you. Yeah, feeling less alone keeps your countable and keeps you kind of eyes on your goal because it is hard when you're on your own. Yeah, massively. And I think it's so easy to forget what your goals are like, I know that sounds really silly. Yeah, like when we were talking at the end of the year, weren't we and I was saying to everyone about the plan for the goal setting session everything. I sort of asked, you know, who here remembers what their goals were back in January like January 2024. And the thing is like, you know, it's so easy, isn't it? I mean, you know, one thing we're doing now as other communities we're actually splitting up and we're doing we're only planning six months and then we'll do another six months of planning because again, I don't know about you, but like life changes quickly things happen quickly and also I think as well. Because we all run our own businesses were all generally, I mean, everyone in the community is very creative, the very innovative, always coming up with new stuff. So it's certainly no one I've spoken to is planned to be like, I'm going to do exactly the same thing, not change the thing, you know, like keep going. And I think with that innovation and creation, then it has a knock on effect and the snowball and yeah, just things change, don't they? Absolutely. Yeah, it was really, really useful. The virtual retreat, absolutely. Really good. And the one in November that we did that was in person, but yeah, the all the all being fantastic for sure. Oh, good fabulous. All right. Well, thank you so much for that, Kerry. So just the last question then to wrap up for today is if you could go back to the very beginning of your business, what advice would you give yourself about getting started? That's tricky. I think it would be to build a network as quickly as possible. I think to start with, if when you start in find people, that would be my advice. Yeah, no, I don't want to be a master. Don't try to alone, you know, it's horrible when you wake up one day, realize no one comes to give you a pat on the back of your two. Find those people they're going to cheerly do you want from day one? No, I 100% agree with that. Amazing. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Kerry. It's been a pleasure. And what we'll do as well, Kerry will share her social media links with me and I'll put them all in the show notes. So if you're interested in chatting to Kerry, finding out more about what she does, helping tutors for social media and Facebook groups and everything else, definitely get in touch with her because she's a whiz at what she does. And yeah, all those details will be below. So thank you, Kerry. I'll see you very soon. Thank you, Helen. Thanks you. Bye. Bye. Thank you for listening to another episode of the marketing systems for success podcast. Don't forget to review and subscribe or share this episode with one of your business friends. For more information and support from today's episode, head over to the show notes where you'll find everything you need. Have a great week and I'll see you in the next episode. (upbeat music)