EP #103- You’re Not Who You Think You Are: A Conversation on Identity, Embracing Uncertainty, and Living Presently with Andrew Murnane, Co-Host of Dualistic Unity

[MUSIC] Life isn't about being happy. If we were happy all the time, it wouldn't really be the fullness of life that is able to be experienced when we let go of that desire to be experiencing anything other than where we're at. But what I will say is as you let go of the desire to be anywhere else or be feeling anything else, no matter what emotion you're currently experiencing, as you let go of that desire, which is always going to lead to some form of suffering. Those things like peace and joy and even happiness is allowed to arise more often. [MUSIC] Welcome back to another episode of Everyday Endorphins, a mental health podcast focused on the importance of finding joy and happiness in daily living. I'm your host, Stella Stafinopoulos, and this week is all about navigating the uncertainties of life, learning how to live in the present moment, and understand what your identity is and how you aren't really who you think you are. I think this is a question we often ask ourselves, especially in our 20s, but really at any point in life, who am I? And this is exactly the type of question that Andrew Mournay and I get into this week on the podcast. Andrew is the host of Dualistic Unity, which is a philosophy podcast that seeks to really uncover the meaning of life and all topics related to identity and really everything that we're talking about today. He's also a content creator. He has over a million followers on TikTok and has a pretty large following on Instagram as well. And in this episode, we talk about how Andrew developed an interest in these topics, his perspective on synchronicities, his own experience with mental health and mental health struggles, and some of the nuggets of wisdom that he's picked up in his life on how to embrace uncertainty, the reality of life, and how we need to really relinquish control to lead a healthy and happy life. I'm so excited for you guys to hear this episode, but before we get into it, reminder to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever listening platform you prefer. And if you like what you hear and make sure to follow along on Spotify, Apple, anywhere you stream your episodes, you can also check out everyday endorphins on Instagram and on TikTok to stay up to date with future episodes and podcast events. Hi, Andrew. Thank you so much for coming on to Everyday Endorphins. Hey, Stella. Thank you so much for having me. Excited to chat. I want to share the story of how our paths literally crossed because if that hadn't happened, I don't know if we'd be sitting here today, but I was walking to meet a friend like through Washington Square Park. And I actually, like while I was walking, I recognized your friend from TikTok, which is really funny, and I stopped the two of you, and I was like, "Hey, I follow you." And then he was like, "Yeah, my friends also pretty big on TikTok." And then it was really funny because my interests are in like philosophy and psychology and obviously with the show. So I was really surprised how your videos had not come up on my free-u page, like prior to that moment, but it was just so crazy and led to where we are today. Yeah, it was super fun. I think that was John Huvie, or J. Huvie. He goes by a few different things. But yeah, founder of Stan, Shadow Stan. It's a great platform for anyone. Anyone listening who's a creator and wants to monetize their stuff. But yeah, super funny that we came across each other in that way. It was interesting walking around with him because we got stopped a couple times, and he's visited New York a few times, and we'll go on walks and whatnot and just chat about content stuff. And sometimes we'll get stopped and someone will notice him and not me or me and not him. But then sometimes they'll be like, "Wait, I know you too." And it's always kind of funny when we're walking around and that happens. But yeah, great dude. And yeah, glad we were able to finally sit down and chat after it's been, I don't know, how long? Months, six months, seven months. I'm bad at email and didn't get back to you for a little while, but glad we got figured out. Well, my question to you as the philosophy expert is, do you think that things happen by chance or by coincidence or things kind of meant to happen as they do and fold? Because that was such a random, crazy moment, and then the fact that we were able to reconnect. I was thinking to myself, is that, I don't know, was that random? Or I'm very curious to hear your perspective on that. All right, we are getting into it. This is the type of stuff I love because there is no short, easy answer to this. But for my perspective, nothing is meant to be necessarily, but everything is always happening and there is no division between events and moments and people and anything in all of reality. And so when things happen, it's almost like we, if we're attentive enough to it, we can see the symbolism in it and if we're attentive enough to it, we can see maybe the reasons from our point of view that they happen. And so it's not necessarily that things happen for a reason or that things are meant to be, but things are always interconnected and we have the ability to assign meaning to them. And sort of not take advantage, but kind of take advantage of certain situations as long as we're actually attentive to them. And it's funny when people talk about like synchronicities and things like that. I see synchronicities as something that is the constant. Like everything is always synchronic and when people notice synchronicities, it's just because they're paying enough attention to things. And so as people pay more attention to where they're at and aren't so caught up in their narratives, their idea of themselves, the concern for that, they'll start noticing more and more synchronicities because that's the base of reality. As always, synchronicities, we have this perspective that synchronicities kind of pop out here and there. And for my point of view, it's more that they're always happening and it's just how attentive you are to the experience and your willingness to just be there in the experience without so much so many opinions and thoughts and judgments about the experience. I think that's a really empowering way to think about this idea of synchronicities being the baseline. Because in a way, I guess it's having this mindset that like everything in life or in your life is happening to you, like in a good way, when you're able to identify or when you're able to recognize that like things are always synchronic, then it feels like maybe that you're more empowered to kind of like make better choices or I don't know, it's hard for me to articulate, but I just thought that was really interesting and also this point around like having greater focus so that you can recognize those moments of synchronicities. I think there's a big barrier to being able to actually be attentive to those moments. And I want to get into that a little bit more later in the episode, but before we can really get in the weeds of philosophy, where did your interest develop in philosophy and also starting your own podcast? Like I'm so curious to just learn a bit more about your story and how these interests developed for you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, there's definitely still developing, still kind of unfolding. As even as we speak right now, this last week, I've had certain perspective shifts with things and it's kind of like every week thing, especially being now full time doing my podcast, having quit my job towards the end of last year. It's just like a constant unfolding and whatnot, but going back to give a little background on my story. So regarding mental health throughout high school, I definitely dealt with a good amount of social anxiety and was just always very concerned with what people thought of me, like not living for myself, but living for the opinion of others. And it wasn't that I wanted everyone to like me. It was that I didn't want anyone to dislike me. And so the way that worked out was I was very quiet. I just didn't put myself out there out of fear of risking being judged or being not liked. And over time, there was a number of sort of recognitions that I had, probably the first one being that people just aren't thinking about me nearly as much as I thought they were. I think that was super freeing in and of itself that I was constantly concerned with people's judgments. And when it hit me like, oh, maybe they're not thinking about me quite so much, that helped a lot. And then throughout high school, I think I had that recognition maybe in college at some point. Through college, things got a little bit better. And then after college started getting to, you know, spirituality, meditation, all that stuff started to be more aware of the thoughts running through my mind and the narratives I was bringing into every situation and all that concern. And as I became more aware of them, I was able to take them a little bit less seriously. And then fast forward through sort of working in New York and then COVID happened. And kind of my final barrier to fear of judgment was putting myself out there on social media. It was something that I, for whatever reason, I don't really know where it came from, but I just had this desire inside of me to do so to make videos on the internet. And I knew I wanted to do it for about a year and a half before I I finally did, which was July 2020. I kind of hit me. I thought about it every single day. It was part of my morning routine, like a machining, being old and on my deathbed, thinking about what I regretted about my life and for whatever reason it was like creating content. Was the one thing that came up. Kind of a strange thing to be the only thing, but it was literally every single day for about a year and a half that came up. And finally, I was like, all right, fuck it. I gotta do this or else I'm gonna regret it when I'm older. And then did that. And since then have kind of had some deeper recognitions regarding the reality of, or at least closer to the reality of what I am or what I'm not at least. And had my own podcast started that back about, I don't know, two years ago, stopped doing that. It started a new one. It's got named Ray called Dual Security. I've been doing that for almost a year and a half now. And yeah, there's been a lot of ups and downs since doing all the content stuff, but that's a quick little summary of my story. - Yeah, well, I mean, I have a lot of follow-up questions, but where I wanna start is, did you study anything related to philosophy in college? 'Cause my major in school was this integrative study in philosophy, neuroscience, and psychology. And I loved it. I actually ended up taking the least amount of philosophy classes 'cause they were the hardest, but actually the most rewarding. And I think that also subconsciously kind of like informed my interest in what I'm doing now. But was that something that you studied and like that being more of like a catalyst for what you decided to do post grad? Or was it more so like, did these interest develop more so from just being young and thinking that people were just like thinking about you and being really self-conscious about that and kind of working through maybe more of like those experiences you had when you were younger? - Very much the latter. I was an econ major in college. They got to take one philosophy class and hardly paid attention. Like there was almost no interest in these types of things that I talk about all the time now. Pretty much until after college. I started getting into it. And I don't know what the initial catalyst for getting into like meditation and more of those types of things was, but it was just, I don't know, as I started to think about it more, it was just kind of natural progression of things. And so yeah, it wasn't something I studied. I was very much stemming from just my own experiences. Everything I've learned, everything I talk about is through my own experiences. I think early on in my content, it was a lot of things that I had read in books and learned from books. Honestly, I don't read a ton of books very much anymore. Like the things I talk about are from conversations. I do one-on-one sort of like life coaching just 'cause I have to call it, I hate calling it that, but you kind of have to call it something. And through interacting with people and just my own experiences really what it comes down to and just constantly questioning everything my brain settles upon thinking that, oh, maybe this is the truth. It's like, no, nothing that I ever settle upon is the truth. And so that constant state of questioning has just kind of kept me on my toes and kept me learning as I go. But yeah, it's definitely not from school at all. Well, I think that's kind of better, honestly. I thought what you said earlier was also really interesting around like having this fear of like what people are thinking about you, especially at a young age. And I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with too, not even as kids, but even as adults, like constantly comparing ourselves to people and being like self-conscious that others are thinking about you or just won't like you. How do you think that shifted or like impacted, I guess your mental health, but especially to the point when you started to recognize that like, it didn't really matter how other people thought about you and also recognizing that not everyone is constantly thinking about you. I mean, I think we see this specifically with like women at the gym. I've talked to a lot of my girlfriends and they've said like, I don't really want to go to the gym or like, I don't want to be there like a busy time because I feel like everyone's going to look at me and think that I'm not doing things correctly, especially guys. Like, it's a very stressful environment for them in their perspective. And I get that, but I've also thought to myself, well, nine out of 10 times, like no one's watching you, they're there to just like look at themselves and do their own thing. So like, how did you kind of realize that like not everyone was thinking that deeply like about you and how did you use that as a way to kind of empower yourself and not feel super self conscious? Yeah. So there's a phrase, I think it's Sander, which is the recognition that everyone's life is as deep as yours is, everyone's experiences is deep and as full as your own is. And I think, and that's not exactly what I was like the initial thing I came across as word Sander and I was like, oh my god, everything changed. That's something I learned within, I don't know, even like the last few months, I was like, oh, that's an interesting word, interesting phrase. But that was the recognition that helped me a lot. When we go outside and we're so concerned walking around New York or in a gym or whatever, we think everyone's thinking about us. And I think that's called like the halo effect or the spotlight effect or something. And the reality is it's a very ego-tistical way to live. And people don't like when I say it like that because they think I'm victim-shaming or victim-blaming or whatever, but it is. When you think, when you're so concerned with whatever and thinks about you all the time, you think that everyone's thinking about you all the time. And the reality is they're not. Even if it's coming at it from an insecure, negative perspective, the reality is that they're not. Everyone has their own entire human experience, their own job, family, friends, their own insecurities, their own concern for whatever and thinks about them. And so at the end of the day, people just aren't thinking about you very much. They couldn't possibly be given what we all do throughout our days. And an example I like to give is if someone makes a to-do list for their day. If everyone in the world made it to-do list of what they wanted to get done in the day, how often would they put something that someone else is doing in their to-do list? Basically, never. Someone's not putting like Judge Johnny's Instagram picture on their to-do list. Sometimes they do it in passing if they're feeling insecure and want to try and feel better. So they feel like they can-- they need to tear people down in order to bring them to their level so they can feel a little bit better. That's why, for the most part, people judge. People who are happy and busy and living full lives aren't spending very much time judging other people. But we don't realize that. And so even if they do do it in passing or even if they do, write someone's named out on their to-do list. Like, out of the 8 billion people on Earth, it's probably not you. So I don't think enough people realize how full of an experience that everyone else is having to the point that people just don't have the time or the energy to think about you very much. And so the more deeply you can recognize that, the more free you'll be to do all the things that you want to do. And it's not to say that people don't judge. But as I said, when they do, it's stemming from insecurity. At the end of the day, they're really just judging themselves, the things that people will notice in you are the things that they're insecure about in themselves. And so their judgments really don't have to do with you at all. They have to do with themselves and their own experience. And if someone-- another-- just to throw another example out there, because there's a few coming of mine. Someone comes up to you, gives you a compliment. Someone else comes up to you and judges you. You see the person who gives you a compliment. And you don't think about yourself in that situation. You're like, oh, they must be such a happy person, what a nice person to give such a nice compliment. Then someone comes up and judges you. You're like, oh, my god. Is my shirt a weird color? Do my hands look weird? It's not like, oh, they must be in a really bad mood. They must be having a really tough day. But in both experiences, in both situations, it isn't about you. It's about them reflecting their own internal state of being upon you. And so there's just a number of things. These are all just things that I've sort of recognized or sort of learned about over the years to help with that concern of what other people think. But yeah, just to summarize, either most of the time they're not thinking about you. And if they are, if they are judging you, it has to do with them. It really doesn't have to do with you at the end of the day. I'm so happy you bring that up, because something I've been thinking a lot about recently is it's best to not take things super personally. It's a piece of advice that I've been given. And it's hard, because I feel like I'm a pretty sensitive person and I tend to take things personally. But I've given some more thought to it. And it's kind of along the lines of what you're saying. More often than not, it's not about you. The person's probably not thinking about you. It's a reflection of themselves. I've also gotten this advice a lot in terms of relationships and dating, which I think it really does pertain to that as well. But if you think more broadly, this idea of not taking things personally, what are your thoughts on that phrase or that piece of advice? Yeah, so there's a lot of potential depth to this one, because when you think about people who take things personally or when you do take things personally, which is super common to do, it's because you have this idea of yourself. And this idea of yourself, our identity, what we believe ourselves to be, which is only-- a story that exists inside of our mind isn't the reality of what we are. That idea of us that that can be judged that we think about when we're taking something personally when someone judges us and it hits home, it feels bad. It's because we're clinging to this idea of ourselves because that's sort of the illusion that all of reality is existing within is believing that they are what they think they are and the reality is that you're never what you think you are. You are what is here and now and that idea of yourself is all rooted in the past. We build this idea of ourself throughout our lives and it's really rooted in something that was never meant to be personal. Our identity is a tool that allows us to interact and communicate with the world. An example I like to give with identity and the reality of what it is is if you're standing in a group of people and you see your friend over there but no one has an identity so no one has a name and everyone just goes by you. You want to get your friend's attention and you say hey you the whole group turns around. That's not super convenient so in order to make things more convenient everyone gets a name but that thing that was only meant to be a tool a way to make communication a little bit easier same with you know streets and whatnot. It's way easier to give directions if a street has name as opposed to just being like oh I turned left on reality and then turned right on reality. It's like no it makes it easier to just use names there but we've taken it so far like out the other end that we now have this whole idea attached to that name and that's how we judge ourselves that's how we allow for others to judge us that's how we judge other people and because we think our value is derived from how people perceive that idea because we rely on it in order to feel better the flip side of that coin is the fear of judgment because we rely upon it in order to build ourselves up it can just as easily be torn down and so it's really important for people to recognize that that idea of himself is never ever the truth of what they are but in order to not fear that judgment so much they can't take compliments so seriously as well they can't keeps it's not that you shouldn't strive to do things or you know make money or do all the things you want to do absolutely nothing wrong with that but when you tie your value to all those things it's always a double-edged sword because if your value comes from all of these external things how bigger houses how bigger cars how attractive your partner is and someone judges it or they get taken away that value that you drive from it all of a sudden all goes away so it's super important for people to recognize which isn't a super common theme which is something that my whole podcast is based around is is the recognition that your value doesn't waver it doesn't go up and down and so as you let go of all those things that you think build your value up it's going to be a lot easier to let go of the things you feel like tear your value down and then win people judge you because you're not relying upon the praise to feel better it'll be a lot easier to not take that judgment so seriously and not think about what it means about you because you know that the perceptions the judgments are really stemming from their own experience and their own thoughts about themselves and the judgments and perceptions that you have about yourself or the judgments and perceptions other people have about you are never going to be the reality of what you are your value doesn't waver yeah I want to respond kind of with an anecdote because you know what I was thinking about as you were speaking was the Buddhist principle of non-attachment which I feel like we're basically talking about and we could continue to speak towards this idea of like distinguishing perhaps like identifiers versus your identity so what you were talking about earlier with a bunch of people in a room with your friend and then a bunch of other people and they're all you so maybe like what distinguishes your friend versus that group of people are certain identifiers but the identity is completely separate and the story that I want to share is like a few summers ago I went to Bali to get my teacher training to be certified to be a yoga instructor and I went like right after I graduated from college I went alone I didn't know anyone on the program one of the best experiences of my life and I remember it was such a unique feeling to go first of all to a place that I'd never been to before by myself without knowing anyone and without anyone knowing me because then I had this opportunity to like build kind of my sense of self in a completely different environment without anyone having any preconceived ideas about where I went to school or where I grew up or even my name like it was really liberating and perhaps in an environment like Bali more conducive to do that but something I'm trying to figure out is you know now being back in New York and growing up here and having my family and my home friends and my college friends and work and other people here in the city I'm trying to figure out how can I bring that same sense of like de-identifying with the things that I do believe have been the foundation to my identity how can I kind of not recreate but tap back to like who I truly am without needing to define myself as Stella the consultant the podcast hosts the yoga instructor that this the that um so for myself do you have any advice on how I can kind of access that same mindset that I had when I was in Bali and bring it back here but also more broadly um you know how can that advice translate to people looking to really come back to their like truest self without needing to attach on to these external things that we think are substantive to like who we are as people yeah oh fantastic question um yeah I get tell I love talking about identity and everything involved in it because it isn't a super common topic and a lot of the ways that the self-help industry sort of sort of spins it is oh you have a negative idea of yourself just have a more positive idea of yourself just do positivity affirmations and blah blah blah all that sort of thing and it's really important to recognize as I was talking before you know identity is always going to be a double edged sword so as you cling to anything as the truth and someone has a different opinion or someone judges that idea it's going to get torn down as much as you use it to build yourself up and so when someone feels like they've lost their identity or they don't know themselves they can't define themselves anymore it's like that's amazing that's where freedom lies in that uncertainty but because we're so as a society so afraid of that uncertainty we feel like we almost don't exist if we don't have an idea of ourself we think that's where our value is derived from we think as we don't have an idea of ourself we have to build one and that's why you always hear things like oh you got to know yourself knowing yourself is the most important thing you can ever do and the truth about knowing yourself is that it's not an idea so any idea of yourself that you cling to is not the reality of you because just talking realistically that idea is always going to be rooted in the past it's always going to be based on things that have happened in the past but you've never actually experienced that past when you experienced those things you were experiencing it right now and that's the same right now that you are right now and so when someone asks me like what do I do about coming back to this reality where people have this idea of me it's understanding that you're never going to be what you think you are you're never going to be what anyone else thinks you are and and sitting in that uncertainty is where freedom lies any certainty that we cling to is very limited and just becomes another prison so rather than being free sitting in that uncertainty people would rather build a prettier prison but prison's still going to be prison and any certainty is that we cling to about what we think we are is going to be a limiting prison understanding that you're never what you think you are and you actually don't have to have an idea of yourself you can just be reality here now and experience things no differently in a state of freedom without so much concern for what you are what you think you are what anyone else thinks you are and then the other I think helpful thing to keep in mind is that people are going to have certain reactions to you changing like if you have friends from high school you go through college you start feeling like you're a different person you start changing you start doing things differently there's going to be pushback with family and friends because eventually before people hate uncertainty people really don't like uncertainty it makes people very uncomfortable and so as you change this idea of you that they had this box they were able to put you in all of a sudden is changing and so rather than questioning their own senses of certainty their own their own things that they settle upon in order to feel more comfortable in an inherently uncertain reality they think there's something wrong with you rather than questioning themself they're like you're making things uncertain for me that's not okay I'm uncomfortable you have to go back to what you were and so there's always going to be that pushback because of that fear and concern for uncertainty So understanding that it's not going to necessarily make it super easy. It's still there's still going to be pushback, but it can help you to at least understand more clearly why they're doing it. And through that have some empathy for them. Understand that if you were just as afraid of uncertainty as they were, you would push back against you changing as well. And through that, it's not that it's going to make everything better all of a sudden, but it will at least allow for some clarity in your own experience as to why they're doing it. And then you won't feel as concerned, you won't take it as seriously because you kind of see where it's coming from. I have two follow up questions to that. The first is how do you actually lean into uncertainty and see it as something that's really freeing rather than being super anxious? Because like you mentioned, a lot of people meet uncertainty with anxiety, with pushback. And I'm one of those people. Or so within my own life. I like to know my schedule. I like to plan. I'm going to be very type A in that way. And I have experienced certain moments where things have been maybe I guess in your perspective always synchronous, but I've just had the attention set in that way. And then I see things kind of happening and unfolding easily. And it's like, oh wow, that's great. I didn't plan for this. And so I've tried to kind of reframe this idea of seeing uncertainty more as an opportunity. But how can we do that? And then secondly, like you mentioned earlier about being in the present, like from a philosophical perspective, what does it actually mean to be in the here and now in the present moment? And I don't mean like put your phone away and like don't be on social media, like sure if that will help you limit your distractions. But this concept of like really being tuned into the present moment that we are currently in and this like right now, how do you achieve that? How do you do that? So everything is always uncertain. Reality is inherently uncertain. Neither of us have any idea what's going to happen in five seconds, five minutes, five days, five years. And yet we try to avoid that fact that everything is uncertain through creating false certainties. So there's no such thing as certain. There's only falsely certain or false certainties. And so usually when people get anxious, it's because they had this feeling of certainty, they were able to create this false certainty. And then they weren't able to keep things as controlled as they would like. And so then they feel like things are starting to unravel. They're losing control. They're not as certain about things anymore, which was always the case. They were just able to create this false certainty inside of them as things start to unravel. And they feel like they don't have as much control anymore. That's when the anxiety arises. And so at first, understanding that everything is always uncertain, it is going to be a little bit uncomfortable. But as you become comfortable with that uncertainty, which is the basis of our reality is uncertainty, you become more comfortable with life. And you become more comfortable with things happening. However they happen to play out. Because if you think about life and as much as we like to cling to certainty and desire this state of certainty, life would fucking suck if everything was certain. If we knew how everything was going to go all the time, life would not be worth living. And I like to compare this to like a sporting event, whether you watch football or golf or water polo or whatever. If you knew not only how the game ended, what the score was, who won, but how every single play went before you watched it, how long would you watch that game? Probably wouldn't probably turn it off right away because you knew everything had happened because everything was certain. And so as much as we fear this uncertainty, it's the only thing that gives life its beauty, like it's the core of what gives life its beauty. If everything was certain, if our life was completely planned out, if we knew exactly where we were going to be tomorrow, next year, in 10 years, at the end of our life, how we're going to die. All that shit, like life would not be worth living. So that uncertainty as much as it seems scary is the basis of what makes life worth living. So becoming more comfortable with it is how you become more comfortable with life. And then as things start to feel like they're not so certain anymore, because you've become comfortable with it because you're existing in that state of certainty, you're not quite so afraid of it anymore. There isn't that build up of like, oh no, I'm losing control because it's like, oh yeah, there's no control because that's how it's always been and that's how it always will be. So becoming comfortable with that is super important. And then so being present, it's very important to recognize that you can't not be present. You can't not be here now. You've never been anywhere else. The present moment here now. So go, you know, this ties into identity and thoughts about ourself and all that stuff, you are the here and now. So when you are, you know, say you're caught up on your phone, scroll on TikTok for two hours. Like you've been present that entire time. You just have this idea of being present. And so we try to be present even though we always are. And so we almost confuse ourself into striving for something that makes us feel worse about where we're at right now and because we feel uncomfortable because we're trying to be somewhere that we aren't currently, we suffer. And so it's this crazy loop that we do where we create suffering for ourself despite always doing the thing that we're striving to do, which isn't somewhere we can get because we're it. We can't get there because it's where we always are. We can't avoid it. And so even going beyond that, people talk about flow state and sort of a deeper recognition we were talking about on my podcast a couple of weeks ago was the recognition that you're always in flow state. And it really comes down to our ease with life, our ability to experience life with less, less friction, less suffering is how clearly we recognize that we're always in that flow. And so we think, you know, we need to be present or we need to get into flow state. And what if you could recognize that everything was always happening perfectly? That even this thing that you were going through is going to lead to something you're going to learn something from it, you know, as much as you feel like you're in a deep dark pit right now, there's opportunities to learn. And as you let go of your resistance to being where you're at and just relax into where you are, understanding that you can't be anywhere else when you get, you know, quote unquote somewhere else, you're still here now. And so letting go of your desire to be someone somewhere else doesn't necessarily make everything better immediately, but it at least allows you some clarity through that lack of resistance, through that acceptance of where you are to see other opportunities. You no longer have this tunnel vision of like, I need to get here right now by this time at this place. It's like, okay, I'm here now and you start looking around and you're like, Oh, shit, there's a lot of opportunities here, but it's through that letting go of that resistance to where you're at that those things arise and it doesn't change things immediately, but it allows for the clarity to allow things to unravel in a different way than maybe they were going when you were so caught up resisting. Mm-hmm. Yeah, resistance is a huge thing. And it kind of reminds me also of this Buddhist principle around like the second arrow. So this idea of like self-inflicting, suffering into your life. And that's really what suffering is. Like when we think about pain versus suffering, suffering is like the self-inflicted thing. I think it ties into what you're talking about, like having this resistance to things like not happening from this idea that you have of how things are going to unravel and learning to be more accepting of the fact that things are uncertain and that's okay and that you are where you're supposed to be in that moment. And this also kind of ties into another area that I wanted to talk about more broadly being perception and how we see our own realities. So I've recently gotten down the rabbit hole of lucky girl syndrome and manifesting and all of that. And I do think that our minds are incredibly powerful, like the way in which we think about certain things and speak to ourselves the thoughts that we kind of program into our minds. I do think can influence our behaviors and then our behaviors will shape our realities. But I'm very curious to hear from your perspective. Like do we have agency and ownership over controlling? Like what our reality is. And if so, how? So yes and no. I would say my perspective on control and whatnot is that most people's idea of control is future focused. It's like controlling the outcome. Oh, if I do this, I'm going to get this. And we have this idea that getting this is what's best for me. And as long as I get this, I can feel better about myself. And so that doesn't exist. That control because it's based in the future. And we have no say over what happens in the future, what the outcome is going to be. You know, you can work as hard as you can. You can play your best game going back to sports. You can play your best, but it doesn't guarantee that you're going to win. win. So although we don't have control, we do have influence. But the only place and time that we have influence is here now. And that state in which we embody that mentality that we embody in this moment is what dictates everything moving forward. And so my perspective on a manifestation is that we are the manifestation. It's not that we are something that manifests things. It's that we're already it. We're already the achievement. We're already the trophy. We're already the gold medal. And so everything you do can be just a exhibition of that fullness and completeness that you always are. I don't know if an exhibition is right word, but I'm going with it. You know, and and so we get caught up in trying to get certain things or trying to manifest certain things into our reality. And the reality of manifesting and want and things like that is there's nothing wrong with wanting inherently. But the etymology of the word want is to lack. And so as you want things as you desire things. The mentality that you're embodying in the moment is a state of lack. And so the entire time you're trying to get to a place and you're saying, I want to get to this place, I need to get to this place. If I get to this place, I'll be whole and complete. You're telling yourself, like the mentality that you're embodying is a state of lack. Like, I want this, I want this, I want this. What you're really saying is I lack this, I lack this, I lack this. And so understanding that you are the manifestation, like you're already all the things that you want to be, it's just that you have all of these ideas, all of these perceptions of yourself that are cutting you off from that recognition. And so we try to overcome all of those limiting, limiting ideas or all the things, the negative thoughts about ourselves by just shoving more positive ideas into ourselves or getting more things. Or, you know, I don't feel whole right now, but if I get this, I'm going to feel whole. And so it's not necessarily about adding more, you know, having a positive view yourself as I was talking before regarding identity, that double edged sword, but it's about questioning all the things that you think are getting in the way or that are getting in the way of you recognizing that you're already whole. And so whenever those things arise, those thoughts, those negative perceptions of yourself, those are the thoughts that arise inside of our mind or are just our brains processing things. It's trying to cling to certain certainties. And the fascinating part and the kind of frustrating part about having a tool as powerful as our brain is that it's always trying to settle upon certainties. And so as you, you know, thoughts arise, be it a negative perception of yourself, it's going to do everything it can to confirm that fleeting thought. But as you can recognize that your mind is a machine, it's always processing things. It's always going to be thinking something. You understand that you don't have to take all those thoughts so seriously. And so people who feel like they have a noisy mind, they're always overthinking they think, oh, if I just have a, have a silent mind, if I can just silence my mind, then I'll be okay. Then I won't suffer as much. And your brains always going to be thinking something. As I said, it's that machine. It's that processor. And so it's not so much about silencing it. It's more about understanding what it is and taking it a little bit less seriously. And as you take your thoughts less seriously, you, you won't be giving them as much attention. And you won't be resisting the ones that you feel like you don't like anymore. You allow the processing to continue to happen because they're always just processing. And as we notice ones we don't like, we're like, oh, I don't like that one. I have to get rid of it. Even though it was already out the door, like halfway out the door, but as we caught it and we were like, I don't like that one. Then it like kind of came back into our attention. And then it stays there because we're resisting it. One of my favorite quotes is what you resist persists. So as you resist that mechanism of your brain, the mind processing things, it's just going to keep those thoughts around that you don't like. But as you let go of that resistance to them, understand that they don't actually mean anything about the reality of you, you let it continue to process. Yeah, I always, I love what you said. I always tell friends, maybe who are not super into the idea of meditating or feels intimidated by it that, you know, it's not about silencing your mind. You know, some people are like, well, I don't know how to meditate. And it's not about just shutting off your thoughts because we're humans and we just can't do that. So I love the way that you put it where it's about building this like distance between yourself and what's going on up here and kind of like de-identifying and not attaching to that, which is really where the power lies. And throughout everything we've spoken about this afternoon, I want to hear also your perspective on like, we're happiness comes into play with this is happiness, like a byproduct of being able to not feel so tied to this like identity that you create in your head of yourself or this just this concept of like the pursuit of happiness. Is it even something that we are meant to pursue or is it there when you recognize that life is one big synchronicity? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I don't mean to sound harsh, but fuck the pursuit of happiness. That is what keeps people from experiencing happiness because as we desire certain things, you know, we strive to be happy, we want to be happy. That's the exact thing that's keeping us from it because the more you want something to happen, the more you desire it to happen, the less likely it is to happen because you want to be somewhere that you're not and going back to suffering. It's like you're always where you're at and your idea of where you think you should be, where you want to be, what you want to be feeling, wishing that you weren't feeling this, all of those things, there's like that gap between where you are and where you want to be. If you want to be happy and you're not feel like you're not happy right now, there's a gap between those two places and there's a resistance to where you're at and a desire to be somewhere else. That gap is suffering right there. Life isn't about being happy. If we were happy all the time, it wouldn't really be the fullness of life that is able to be experienced when we let go of that desire to be experiencing anything other than where we're at, but what I will say is as you let go of the desire to be anywhere else or be feeling anything else, no matter what emotion you're currently experiencing, as you let go of that desire, which is always going to lead to some form of suffering, those things like peace, joy, and even happiness is allowed to arise more often. So happiness, peace, all of those things that we all want to be experiencing, aren't things that we can get to. They're not things that we can get to outside of here now, but as we let go of the desire to get anywhere else to get to a state of happiness, we allow them to arise within us. And so that's kind of the counterintuitive nature of all of the positive emotions that we can experience. It's not to say that you won't have fleeting experience of them, experiences of them, as you strive for them. You know, you really want a new car. You think that's what's going to make you happy. Maybe it does make you happy for a little bit. Maybe it makes you happy for a whole month. And then, you know, that feeling goes away. You start desiring something more because that's just a loop that you're existing within. But as you let go of all of those desires to be anywhere else, let go of that resistance to where you're at, you allow all those feelings to arise within us. So it is very counterintuitive. But once you understand it, it makes it a little bit easier to, I think, experience them a little bit more often and we are not experiencing them. But you're not resisting what you are experiencing. It'll allow for them to arise more often and you go through the lulls a little bit more quickly, a little bit more seamlessly with a little bit less resistance to them. And because it's that it's that resistance that kind of keeps all of those experiences lasting a little bit longer than most of us would like. Yeah, I mean, it kind of reminds me also of the distinguish, or the difference between immediate versus delayed gratification. Like, I think that's kind of what you were speaking to a little bit around. If I have this big house, then I'll be happier, like, where you'll be happy for like, I don't know, a week a month, but then it kind of starts to fade away. And something that obviously hosting a podcast that's around mental health and happiness with endorphins being in the name, I'm always very curious to hear people's perspective on happiness and like what it means to be happy and how they find their endorphins and daily living. So maybe sort of asking people like what they do to get their endorphins, I should ask them what they do to let go so that they can have their endorphins. Because it's kind of like what you're saying, like letting not having that resistance is when things naturally can kind of come into your life. But before I do ask my final question that is really central to the theme of the podcast, seeking out those joys and life, the simple, simple pleasures, I wanted to ask you about dualistic unity and your podcast. And I think it's such a clever name that you have for your show. But can you speak a little bit more to kind of the topics that you discuss generally speaking and also where the inspiration came from for dualistic unity? Yeah, absolutely. So I mean pretty much everything we've talked about today are topics that we discuss very frequently on the podcast. I think the core of of the podcast is the recognition that you're never what you think you are. And any idea of what you think you are, any belief that you have about yourself is always gonna be limiting relative to the reality of what you are being infinite potential in each and every moment. And so relaxing into that reality of uncertainty, understanding that you're never what you think you are, you can never pin down any idea of what you think you are and existing in that state allows you to exist in a state of freedom. And that is really what we circle around and just that recognition. And the constant questioning of that identity that we've gotten so used to in our society, our society kind of revolves around that illusion of identity, everyone thinking that they are, what they think they are. And there's also sorts of things that build that idea of yourself, be it nationalism or religion or whatever it may be, ever and ever and uses all of these things, or even fandom, you know what? You're a fan of a sports team. I know I've been going back to sports a little bit on this, I grew up playing a lot of sports, but you get caught up in that. It's like that's something else that defines you. And then you have this whole grand idea of yourself and none of it is the truth of what you are. And as that begins to unravel, you start to question what you think you are, you start to question the nature of our reality. There's a lot of depth there. There's a lot of depth to the recognition but the only thing you can know for sure is that you are here now. And what that means to you is going to differ depending on how willing you are to question all the things that you settle upon for that false sense of certainty, but there is a lot of depth to that recognition and the reality of what being here now actually means. And then beyond those ideas, you may recognize that you're God. And you are what is, you're just reality, wandering around the universe, experiencing itself, but never the idea of you just what's left when you understand that the idea of you is never the reality of what you are. So that's just a little bit. And then this whole episode has kind of been a good summary of a lot of the things we talk about on our podcast. And then duality, my co-host Ray came up with the name actually. But it is very telling of what the podcast is about. It's a paradox. The name inherently doesn't necessarily make sense, which a lot of people love to comment. They're like, your name doesn't make any sense. Like, yeah, that's the nature of reality. It's the experience of duality while the reality is unity. So the reality of this experience is unity. There is no actual division between you and your environment, between you and anyone else in science even proves it. We're all made out of the same molecules. It's just the conceptual ideas we have of ourselves and our environment that conceptually divide us, but they don't actually divide us. And we're experiencing through that conceptual division we're able to experience the illusion of duality, which is beautiful. It's what allows us to have this experience. We wouldn't have experience without the perception of division, but we've just taken it so far that we believe that this duality, we believe that this division is the truth. And so what we talk about is the recognition that it isn't. It's a tool like identity, like all of these names and labels, but none of them are actually the truth. And we can recognize that they're not the truth of what those things are. You inevitably experience a lot less suffering and a lot more peace and exist in much more of a state of freedom than you were when you were taking all the concepts, not least which being the concept of yourself to be the truth. Yeah, I love that. I mean, something I was even thinking about was how, kind of this paradox, even thinking about just the emotion of happiness. Like happiness, it can't really be experienced unless there's some form of sadness. And this idea that two truths can exist at once is really interesting to me. And I think going back to your earlier point around if everything was certain in life, it wouldn't be a life worth living. This concept of having this richness and fullness to life is having these broad spectrums of emotions. And something that I really do advocate on the show is like, I guess you're not really 100% behind the pursuit of happiness, but another way I guess of thinking about it is really just, you know, what can you do to just incorporate a bit more of joy into your day to day to illuminate those moments. But also recognize that your lived experience 100% of the time isn't going to always be happy. So I think that framework also kind of ties into the name dualistic unity, which I love. The final question that I wanted to ask you, Andrew is about endorphins. What is something that brings you a bit of endorphins every day? Yeah. And just to clarify, I didn't mean like shit on the pursuit of happiness at all. I know that's something you talk about. It's just, yeah, the desires for it oftentimes get in the way. But I think, you know, and the messages you convey is absolutely aligned with what I'm talking about. And I think sometimes people can just get lost in the labeling of certain things and the journey towards it. And it's really about letting go and understanding that you're already there. And maybe not immediately, but through that letting go, it is a process that can can arrive or arise within you. But for me, what gives me endorphins? I mean, just like some go-to's, like walking my dog, making a cup of coffee in the morning, working out. But I think on a, maybe a bit of a deeper answer is understanding the inevitability of experiencing that entire spectrum that you were referring to. And so as you understand that life isn't about being happy, it's experiencing the fullness of life. It's experiencing, it's about experiencing the entire spectrum of all of the emotions. When you understand the inevitability of it, there isn't resistance to one end or the other. Because as much as we resist the one end, then when we get to the other end, when we are happy, a lot of times fear arises. And we're like, oh, shit, I hope this lasts forever. I hope this doesn't start. And then we start feeling something comes up and we're a little bit less happy. We feel ourselves kind of swinging that pendulum swinging to the other side. We're like, oh, shit, no, no, I need to say there. And we like grasp for it. And that just swings us even further back to the other end of it. And so when you, on a deeper level, understand that you're going to experience the entire spectrum, there's no belief system you can cling to. There's no amount of money that you can have. There's no amount of love that you can have in your life that's going to stop you from experiencing that entire spectrum. And so how clearly you can recognize that will dictate how lightly you take the spectrum as you go. And so those dips, as you're taking it more lightly as you understand the inevitability of it, those dips don't quite dip as far because there's less weight, there's less resistance to it because you understand I'm going through a wall right now, not feeling as good. That's going to happen. That's part of life. And that allows you to kind of build momentum coming out of the wall and maybe stay a little bit higher for a little bit longer. And as you're on a peak on a high, you're not as afraid of going through the wall again because you understand the inevitable nature of that as being inherent to this reality. Beautifully said, I love that. And I think even to your earlier point around just making a cup of coffee and walking your dog, like those are answers that I hear quite often too. And I think it kind of reiterates the fact that even the more simple things in life can really bring us a sense of joy and happiness. So I loved everything that you had to share. And it was really such a pleasure having you as a guest on the podcast, Andrew, where can my listeners follow along with your content, stream dualistic unity and just stay up to date with everything that you're sharing? Yeah, for sure. This has been a blast. And another thing that gives me endorsements is having conversations like this. So I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to do so. But yeah, Instagram and TikTok is not Andrew Mrenain and dual security is available on all platforms. We have a website where you can get to all our workshops or patreon all that stuff just dual security.com. And then Twitter I gone there sometimes just Andrew underscore Mrenain. Because I think not Andrew Mrenain is too many characters or something so I haven't been able to change that. But yeah, that's that's pretty much where everyone can find me. Well, thank you so much. It was so amazing having you as a guest on the show. Thank you. Stella, appreciate you having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of Everyday Endorphins. If you liked what you heard, make sure to like, rate, and review this podcast on whichever platform you prefer. You can also follow along the Everyday Endorphins Instagram account to stay up to date with episodes, future events, and all things related to mental health, well-being, and happiness. Don't forget to keep spreading endorsements and find things in life that bring you joy every day. Until next time.