Ep. 1 Intro to the 3 Key Skill Sets NOT taught in schools.

[Music] Marcus this week on the podcast we want to talk about a woman that you and I both admire greatly right? Absolutely she is strong she is tough she is pretty nasty when she needs to be just like Akrono Haya where she's from right she's an American girl from Akron right? Yep, tough Midwest gal. Talking about Chrissy Hine we talked about this as we got ready to do the podcast and I've really come up with the summation if you will out of all of our research and digging around not to mention learning a ton of stuff I've come up with the picture in my head that she using the US to UK connection pretty much pulled the Hendrix she pulled a Jimmy in getting from the US over to the UK got herself integrated into the London scene wrote and recorded her demos that got her signed and got her to get together one of the bands that would become members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame talking about Chrissy Hine and the pretenders and after they broke there and became the talk of the town so to speak they came home and took on America it's all about the pretenders on this episode well Marcus it's a long way from Akron to London but she made the move and I learned a lot about Chrissy Hine while doing my research here including the fact that Chrissy went to Kent State and she was there for three years going to art school that all makes sense when you think about it she was in a band there and in that band was Mark Mudder's ball from Devo you know he would go on to form his own little thing going there in Ohio and she was also caught up in the whole Kent State massacre thing which happened May 4th 1970 a boyfriend of one of her friends was among the four victims who were killed in that incident she ends up moving to London in 1973 with her art background and all that right now with her background she's able to get a job working in an architecture firm but leaves after meeting rock journalist Nick Kent who's become quite a famous person since then and got herself a job at the magazine NMA the new music express she was always rebellious and heart and she was always a political activist I can only imagine how traumatic it must have been to be part of that Kent State massacre and that horrible incident that occurred as a college student I can't even imagine what that would be like and how awful that would be to have friends you know shot down as she settles in she further integrates into the scene so to speak in London gets a job at the clothing store sex to famous underground clothing store and who's involved there Malcolm McClaren so if you the westwood they kind of got this store and she wants to stay in the worst way so much so that she kind of proposed marriage of convenience to not just one but two members of the sex pistols who were around of course Malcolm was their manager she just wanted to get a work permit be married and be able to stay in the UK because she didn't want to come home lots of reasons I guess and who were those two members of the sex pistols that she proposed to the state I guess that's really what happened right she proposed to that hey marry me so I can stay over here it was it was Johnny rotten yeah you're one of your favorite figures you're not gonna roll mine too she says that he offered to go to the registry office with her to do the unmentionable as she put it but he backed out and say go all do it you know sin but when they got there to actually do the deed the court was closed for an extended holiday and then he had his own run in with the courts it vicious did so that kind of made the whole thing mood anyway then she went to France tried to start abandon France and then ended up back in 75 famously returning home to Ohio hanging around Cleveland a lot that was about the time like pair of ubu and the dead boys were getting getting noticed and making moves and things like that the roots of them and that's yeah after a while I guess that got old and she went back to France and tried to form bands and it wasn't all working out so she's moving back into London right around as punk rock is forming up and getting ready to go right answers and add in the melody maker there are people are auditioning for a band now she didn't get the gig but let you know what you're trying out for when the band ends up being 999 legendary in London underground band right now the next thing because obviously I've got you right where I want you you're sitting here like a little slack jot on this she tried to start a group with Mick Jones of the clash no I didn't know that I gotta tell you I didn't know that and you're sitting on your head because I don't think you were fully aware of that either I know I learned that one as we were doing some research and I was like look she really worked hard to try to play with some of these castes she was right the middle of it she really was and I'm sure being an American and being a woman in a mice mostly male scene that was dominated by male youth fans even though the women were big in their role in making the punk rock movement move forward it was still very misogynistic in band ways I know but at that point at that point it was pretty much all misogynistic the thing is Chrissy Hying had the balls to walk into any room with any of those guys and hold her own and that's what I always liked about she was tough like that and she was not afraid I mean you hear songs like precious and songs like that they kind of show how nasty and tough she is I like all you crusts of street cuz yeah precious moving through the clean band he now and we'll talk about her music a little bit later but the history of the band and how it got together and while the scene was developing in London between the punk and the post punk scenes it was really really fascinating I mean now another thing that really made my head spin was when I found out because of her association with McLaren that she was kind of moved in as the guitarist in this group it was called masters of the backside or something and she was asked to leave just as they changed their name to the damn now do you know anything about that or why that happened I have no idea why that happened I'd be curious to find out why and I didn't get a chance to read her autobiography before I'm sure it goes into it there but I can I'm curious as to why she was asked to leave if it had to do with her being a female if it had to do with her being American if it had to do with her style of play who knows we'd like to know yeah Chrissy if you've gotten here if somebody from your camp could send us a note and let us know what reasons like those happen we would love to know um she was also in a band called the Moore's murders and she's making connections here you can tell that she's making connections she's trying to work with this one trying to work with that one and everything's happening around her but she's getting the idea that she wants to start her own group and sometimes that's easier thought of than done let's put it that way it's difficult to form a band because you have to find people that are the right chemistry you have to find people that have the same vision or a similar vision that you can work with as you are and you have to have playing styles so I can only imagine being a female trying to start a band in a male dominated industry at that time was even more challenging too and I'm sure that a lot of the songs that were on the demos that she was handing around had that same kind of edge that you see especially on the first couple pretenders records I don't know hey you don't get exhausted of trying to be part of an in and around and putting together so many different things and just get exhausted of the whole process and I guess that's part of the passion that drives somebody to do what they feel inside them and she had that drive and then in the spring of 78 she meets Farndon Pete Farndon and they kind of put together the pretenders from there right and they found James Honeyman Scott or Jimmy as everybody called him and Martin Chambers and I just I just found the whole the whole story about how they came together and what happens in the next few years both the amazing the modland and the sad to be one of the great rock and roll stories and it's at a time in my life when I'm a young rock and roll adult and still living the music and loving the music every day as part of you know while working in another job and raising a kid and all that and I'm listening to these guys and I'm like they just for a while there workers they could do no wrong those first two albums and EP were absolutely perfect and as a young teenager music like that really really got your blood pumped and got you excited and it was relatable music and relatable attitude she was so tough and she was so respected by the young guys that I listened to music with and the young gals that I listened to music with it you know she was kind of an inspiration to many women and one of the many reasons she's in the rock and roll hall of fame deservedly so with her band of the tenders she made a difference in that scene I think what she had was so undeniable once it came into focus she didn't always have the song that ended up on that debut album. She didn't always have the Cuban slide. [Music] Everything flowed from there, including a lot of the material, that would change the path of the pretenders through the decades. Some of it really great, some of it not so much, some of it having great commercial success and again following her own creative muses and paths that have taken her here there and everywhere as a band, including, as you mentioned, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2005. She had behind her three excellent musicians in that initial formation of the pretenders. Farnin's a great bass player and we'll talk about that when we break down some of those songs, especially on the early albums. James Honeyman's got a phenomenal guitar player. He played with a Mata Hoopal keyboardist, Verdinal and Ann Martin Chambers at the same time for a little while. That's how they all hold on. And a band called Cheeks and play with guys at the level of Mata Hoopal as a young kid. You're pretty good and you've got something. They had a really good relationship and a really good chemistry and they all played really well. Martin Chambers is a fantastic drummer. And she and Martin have carried on and off and then back on again and off again and on again a couple times through the decades. But that initial thrust that feel that they created, that change that they made and what was going on in rock and roll starts to change forever in a strange series of events because just a few days after the band dismissed Pete Farnin for his admitted heroine use, I guess things had gone beyond what you could tolerate in a band, which is probably more than is tolerated in regular non-rock and roll society. But after letting him go, James Honeyman Scott dies just a few days later in June 1982. Now I learned something about this that I didn't know before. I always thought that Jim died of heroin as well, finding it ironic that the story of Farnin the way news traveled, that the story of Farnin being fired by the band for drug use had just barely traveled out, actually hadn't gotten into the press much. And there they are also reporting that James Honeyman Scott is dead in what was later revealed was a cocaine overdose basically. Not that long after that, Pete Farnin succumbs to his heroin addiction. Months later his wife finds him in the tub. He had overdosed. And there in that short period of time, two very important parts of her life and the pretenders history were taken away from them. And I don't know how you carry on or continue after that, but somehow they managed to. And we'll be talking more about that as we go through and talk about the albums in the second half of this episode. It's all about the pretenders here on the imbalance history of rock and roll. Look as man, we just jumped right into this thing. We're all the way into it, right? I know we are and we did no messing around, but again with Chrissy, there is no messing around. Well, you know, I want to tell you early on, I got these guys immediately. And I'll be the first to tell you that Brasson pocket is not even close to being one of my favorite lists of pretenders songs. I really got into it the first time I heard mystery achievement. And then I heard the rest of that first record. And then I read this article in Rolling Stone magazine came out May 29, 1980. You want to guess who the author of this article was? It was called the pretenders ain't sobbing. Was it as a further hint? Yes, there bangs. No, as a further hint, I'll reach the subtitle. Maybe I should read it in a certain style that will help you. The other part is Chrissy Hind on her early days as a music critic being a woman on the road and almost losing her virginity to Ron Wood. Which is a great way to get people to read the rest of the article, right? Yep. I'm going to say Hunter S Thompson. Kurt Loader. Kurt Loader wrote that article. Future MTV guy. He's a good writer, man. He was a good writer. He really painted the picture of this band at this time. It was right after they had come over. They were just playing their first few gigs here in the States playing in a place called Detroit, which was I guess the theme was it was a punk rock place, even though it was in Portchester, New York. And the scene on the bus where she's just flipping down her leggings and doing everything she's got to do to get ready. And before they go into the show and all the time, but right before they go on and all that kind of stuff and he kind of follows them through. And Dave Hill, who by that point had become their manager. And he helped to put together that demo we talked about, they got them all working together and recording together and finding each other in a large part. This is right as it's all taking off. And Loader, go find it. I'll post the link on our social media, but it's a really great article. And it tells her story and it tells all about, you know, them becoming this band with this, you know, a ballsy checkup front in a world full of guys, you know, drunk on themselves in attitude. And it's really a great read. And it got me excited about the band to the next level and also made me think, Christy, hi, the older woman. She's pretty hot. You know, I'm saying at that stage in my life, I'm thinking pretty hot. Yeah, as young, I thought she was definitely sexy and she definitely had that charisma on stage. Her charisma was something special. And you saw it in the videos. I know you mentioned brass and pocket not being one of your favorite songs. I would concur with that 100%. And Chrissy Hine would concur with that. She didn't even want it on the album. But somebody with the labeler in the production process realized that that song had the potential to be a hit. And she wasn't a fan of it. Wasn't a fan of the video. She more like songs like stop your sobbing. The weight, you know, those more punch you in the mouth songs, which brings me to an issue that I've discovered that I have that I never realized before. Because sometimes we learn things not only about the music and the people involved in it, but about ourselves. I realized from just listening to all the different records over the years, over the last wow. Long time now, like 40 years, that my real issue when taking any journalistic approach to their music as a reviewer in that regard is that I compare every softer to middle song that she's not crazy about. But I compare every one of them to kid up the neck in private life. And I realized that that's patently unfair to her and to those songs, the other songs. Yeah, we were talking a little bit about this before we started recording and you figured out doing all of the research and prep for this podcast, what it was. The light was all that went on over my own head here about learning stuff. And I realized that because I found out a lot of the songs from some of the lead around them, that I wasn't 100% familiar with just by going through and listening to them a bit. So I guess now that we mentioned that we were going to take a break and grab a pint, should we take a break, grab a pint and then jump back in it. Ray and Marcus back on the imbalance history of rock and roll. This has already been a different kind of journey, man. We're discovering and learning all kinds of stuff about the pretenders and the people who have been part of that whole thing, right? Yeah. And why they're part of the rock and roll Halloween. I think we're all learning a lot about what matters to us during the pandemic, and one of the people who posted on social media was Chrissy Hight. She wanted everybody to know that she was safe at her apartment. She's got a nice place in London, you know, and she's just hanging out there like everybody else, I guess. Well, Chrissy said she learned like a lot of us talking about the pretenders. She said she learned during her lockdown experience that she doesn't, she's not the nicest person sometimes. Like she had like a like a clear moment about maybe she who she is versus who the world really think she is or what the world's it's good to people are feeling things and having the time to sort shit out. And girlfriend, if you've been sorting shit out, you can call us anytime here on the podcast. Absolutely. And we'll just sort of shit out together with everybody who needs help. Have you ever met Chrissy almost? I've met her a couple of times. I was at the Pearl Jam Record release party. I've talked to them before at Dabs, and she was there, and I was too intimidated to talk to her. I really was. And I was also, you know, wait a minute. I might be wrong. I may because the night before livy, they played at the Chestnut Cabaret, and I was there, and I think I might have met her there. there. Nice. I got to meet her twice once when she was at WMMR and once in like 2004-2005 when they did the Hall of Fame series down in Atlantic City. And she was standing next to Shirley Manson and I was with my wife and I completely froze because I was right in between her and Shirley Manson. I didn't know what to do. I was like, oh my god, these two women are so great at what they do. And also their aura is intimidating as hell. Now the reason you're here, every man, every woman is to help each other stand by each other. I like in it to what might have happened if I ever had met Janice Joblin when she was alive. It would have been the same thing. You've been like, you feel it. And then when I met her at WMMR, I made a huge faux-pithe. I was like, I'd seen you with the police and she's like, nope, we never toured with the police. And I'm like, oh, it was Iggy Pop in '87 and that was the tour that I had seen her with. And I was like, I blew it and I was like, oh shit. And it was the police and the gogos and I can't believe. Because she straight up said after that, I was like, I can't remember who you opened for and I can't remember it and I'm embarrassed. And she's like, just so you know, Martin Chambers hated sting. There was no fucking way we would have ever played with the police. She was tough and I was totally embarrassed. So that's twice that I've totally done the face plant and come up with scrapes all over my melon from right in front of her. And the first time I just froze, what do you do? Totally unrehears like all of my men. You know, she's standing on one side of you. Seriously, she's standing on one side of you and Shirley Manson standing on the other side of you. And you're just like, you're putting in the middle. You're like, I come up putting. You come up putting in, indeed. And it's funny because I had interviewed Iggy Pop to talk about that show and his relationship with Chrissy Hine. And he was really cool and I went up to him and said, hey, my name is Marcus from WMMR, thanks for the interview. And he was really nice and really cool. And where was this? At one of the hotels or casinos in Atlantic City when they did a tribute show, I think right before they got into the rock and roll hall of fame. And I went back to Ohio when my city was gone. And there was no train station. And I was no downtown. So how did this? Well, you talk about the guiding forces in the musical universe. In 2005, the pretenders are inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame right alongside Seymour Stein, the founder and president and guru of Sire Records, their label. I thought that was kind of cool that they went in together. I mean, before we sign the pretenders, you'd already established an incredible label, a roster of artists. And for them to join that was great and then to have the level of success and to go into the hall of fame together. And of course, she had a pay tribute to Jimmy and to Pete, saying, quote, "I know that the pretenders have looked like a tribute band for the last 20 years. And we're paying tribute to James Honeyman Scott and Pete Farndon without whom we wouldn't be here. And on the other hand, without us, they might have been here, but that's the way it works in rock and roll. And I thought it was a great perspective paying tribute to guys who were going for quite a long time at that point, over 20 years. And she's 100% right. Those first two albums are what catapulted them into the rock and roll hall of fame. And it's funny you mentioned precious. I was like 14 years old, 15 years old when they did a Saturday night concerts on MTV. And she did precious. And right where, and I'll never forget this because right where she said does the part off, fuck off. She hit a vocal pause and pause for an extra two seconds. MTV hit the beat. She went off, fuck off and got it on to cable TV. And she did that. And cable had no FCC rules. So it technically wasn't a violation. All the time to live the rules. That shows her attitude and her toughness and what a badass she is as a person. Well, you started to hit on it with talking about those first couple records. And I think you can take the first two records, pretenders and pretenders to the extended play with the Cuban slide and some of the stuff from the material overlap. Learning to crawl and get close and look at those albums two before and two after the loss of Jimmy and Pete. And see that that's the real core of why they were inducted all these years later. And they're still making music. And I got to tell you I spent some time in the last couple weeks. No one we were doing this episode listening to not just the hits certainly, but listening through all the albums. Getting re-acquainted with some of it. You always want to make sure you know you have a fresh view of things when you're getting ready to talk about something, especially in a podcast like this, right? Absolutely. And but listening to going back and listening to our music is a lot of fun, especially the stuff you don't hear as much. I know that we are mostly ingrained on those first three albums, mainly the first two, but those first three, first four records are the ones that many of us relate and identify with the pretenders two. But if you look at her career, it's really a solid career. She's written some really excellent songs. They're beautiful. Yeah, her attitude has changed. Her songwriting has aged with her. She stayed relatable to her fan base in so many ways. And they still bring it live, dude. I've saw her a few times in the last decade. I can't remember the last time I saw her. I have to actually look at my ticket stubs, but I've seen her a couple of times in the last decade and they're great still. All right. Instead of four, let's just go with the consensus of those first three albums and the EP. And then after get close, you have a four-year break and then a four-year break and then a five-year break. You know what I'm saying? Things, the records start to stretch out a little bit. And the material, you know, starts to stretch out a little bit too. And even not as strong as things that you know, you would say is their trademark sound. But I would say that hate for sale, which came out right in the middle of all this, is their best album, her best album, whatever you want to say in a long time. Even in my mind surpassing the alone album, which Dan Arabach produced, the Buzz, Lightning Man has got a cool reggae rock feel to it, turf account, daddy songs like that. So she's still making music that I think that speaks to her fans, even as they're aging along with her. And I like the groove. I like the vibe of it. I want to talk a little bit about the undiscussed component of those early records and get your take on it. And I'm talking about the one and only Chris Thomas. Chris is 73 born in England. He's a guy who was born and bred to this shit. His dad was a producer or an engineer at Abbey Road, so he came up around all this stuff. And Chris got to work with some of the most incredible people. The list is long. I'll give you some of the highlights if you want. After hearing some of his work, he was asked to produce the next Roxy Music album, which means he produced Love is the Drug, okay? He produced the following tracks by the Sex Pistols. And this is where he starts to play into our story. Anarchy, God say the Queen, Pretty vacant, holidays in the sun. And he produced those first two, three pretenders records. He produced Let My Love Open the Door for P Townsend on Empty Glass. Okay, we're starting to get the idea. He was instrumental in and had a lot to do with the breakout performances, songs like What You Need and Need You Tonight from Inaccess. Wow. And in that same time, period, he worked with Elton John. He was instrumental from his early days in helping the climax blues band breakout. He did engineering work on the white album that went largely uncredited, but is definitely there. He did all these amazing things. What always happens is bands try different things with different music and different approaches and different producers. But when I look at it, the stuff that Chris Thomas had his hand in is their best stuff then and in more recent years. And it's just a note, you know, all about what's going on there in Pretender's Land on the Imbalanced History of Rock and Roll. Well, let's talk about the music, Marcus, because that debut album from the Pretenders really stirred up some shit on both sides of the pond, I would say. Made a lot of noise in College Radio, that's for sure. And got them established on American Rock Radio at first. before crossing over to pop radio with Branson Pocket. - I remember seeing that video as a young kid and being hooked by them. It wasn't the first song that I saw. It was the first video that I saw there. I think "Freshness" was the first song that I had ever heard. An older brother or sister of a friend who played it for us. - You heard her talking like that in that song you went. - Yes. - The phone call. It's just more nasty than it's grindin' right now. - Mid-and-all way up. - To up the neck and tattooed love boys and one, two, three. We're off and running, Mom. - And then space invader, the weight, the kinks cover, the very last song on Side One. Stop your sobbing. ♪ Each little team that falls from your eye ♪ ♪ Mix, mix and keep on ♪ ♪ For takin' in my arms ♪ ♪ Tell you to stop for your sobbing ♪ - In the final days, there were sides one and two. Do you think that that was kind of a reach out to Ray Davies, who she always said she loved his music? Because a few years later, she and Ray would end up together and have a child and be married and divorced. - No, they were never married. They had a kid together, split up, and then she ended up with Jim Kerr right after that. And they were married for a while. - Yeah, and they had a child. - Shortly after they did, and shortly after their breakup, a bunch of us ended up with him in a restaurant in Philadelphia right after that time with around a simple mind's performance. And then the other songs on Side Two, it's not like Side Two changes into something really different. It's kid in private life and then brass in pocket and mystery achievement, but you look at that record. And then, you know, the Cuban slide was part of the side in England, right? Talk of the town, talk of the town, which they were at that point in London, by the way. - Yep. - And so they come to the States and they put that out on an EP while they're getting the next record ready to go. They're loading up for album number two, you know? - Yeah, what a doozy of an album as well. It didn't get as high a mark as their first album, but it's still a hell of a doozy of an album. - A doozy, eh? - It is a doozy. And it shows the chemistry of the band and how they grew during that short time period, but boy. - Well, look at the way they start the record. She starts out sultry and hot with the adulterous and she sells it, man. She brings that sucker home. Bad boys get spanked, which every guy I know that followed the pretenders was looking for a spanked from Miss Chrissy Hine at that point. So that sounded good. And message of love and you know, you got talk of the town on there and the rest of the record is just filled with all this good rock and energy, really good songs. Most of them written by her a little bit with Jim. And you know, you're listening and as a fan and you're going, these guys can't do anything wrong right now. They just made two amazing records. And by the way, he managed to wedge in this really hot EP. ♪ Way of being the sky ♪ ♪ Over the city ♪ ♪ Over the top of the earth ♪ ♪ Over the top of the earth ♪ I remember that video to this day and day after day is still one of my favorite, favorite pretenders songs. There's something that definitely stand out more than others. But I think it's a face thing 'cause there are periods where I like message of love so much. And then there's time periods where it's like mystery achievement, which I spiked in last weekend, that baseline from that bass group from Pete Farron and right at the beginning is just so good. And this is where the rock and roll tragedy and the fates and all that shit mixes up with what's going on with the pretenders. There's right around that time. Look at how good you're talking about. How you feel about it, about the music and everything, right? And that's how, that's in general how things are going for them. And then you get to this point and then you lose one and then a second member to different kind of drug problems. And you find yourself going forward, not knowing, I'm sure at one point what she was going to do, but her and Martin decided they had a really great band. And if they could somehow move forward that they should. They go through the whole process and they settle on Malcolm Foster on bass and Robbie McIntosh, who's got quite a story, you know, career in and of himself, right? - Yeah, he played with Paul McCartney in the wings if I'm not mistaken. - Indeed. And that was like his biggest gig and totally got in there and he's played with all kinds of people through his career. He was also the main guitarist on Daltre's under a raging moon. - Chrissy and this band was really connected with their predecessors because they took what their predecessors did and punked it out and still made it and kept it very cool and very good. And if you look at that album, also Billy Bremer, Bremer played a lead guitar and a bunch of the stuff before Robbie McIntosh joined the band. Tony Butler played bass on some of the recordings before Malcolm Foster joined the band. Paul Carrick played some piano and did some vocals. ♪ It's a fiddle-eyed ♪ - Some big names like that to play on the album and help pick up the slack while they're trying to figure out what they're doing. And it is a nice album. I liked it. - It's a really good album. - It opens with middle of the road and then you have back in the chain gang, which you were the two. - And think about the feels there, right? You have middle of the road, which is down and dirty, you know, and this is the title kind of says, you know, we're gonna learn to crawl 'cause we're going to leave the, we're crawling from the wreckage essentially. - And you come out with that drum beat from Martin, right? - Yeah, it's a bum. - Time the Avengers are great, so long as well. That song smokes, watching the clothes, a nice deep cut from the album, show me this beautiful song, Thumbelina, a little different, but still fits in with the album perfectly. And then my city was gone. Her homage to Ohio and Akron. And the lyrics in that are some of her best writing. Further down the line, a little bit as part of that whole thing. They do 2000 miles, her road to Jimmy, which has become a perennial Christmas classic on most rock stations around the world. Pretty much, I'd say. - Yeah, we spiked that one in quite a bit during the Christmas season as well and it's always wonderful to play that song. They survived the tragedy and they were able to move forward. I'm sure it was challenging, but they did it. - And she keeps going, making new music. Like I said, "Hey, for sales, got a lot of great songs on it." A lot of the works you did with Dan on "Alones Good." But along the way, you had, again, long gaps, eight years between albums. They are six years, you know, and it becomes less important. I know there's a solo album I'm not talking about somewhere in there too. "Crissey is a person, and I don't know where Martin is in the scheme of the blue marble." But you're out here and you're at that stage in your life and in a lot of people are dealing with this right now. When you're in your 60s or late 60s or 70s, or even beyond that. And that's where a lot of the rock and roll generation is, folks. - Musicians are getting older and older and it's gonna get harder for them. So we don't know if we're gonna get tours from them. - All right, well, that's gonna do it for this episode of the podcast, all about the pretenders. And you know what we didn't get into is all the different people who've been into the band through the years. I know we're into family trees, but it's a lot, man. - And I was looking at it. And how many people are on this chart of bands? 'Cause they had the current band line up there and then they have additional personnel. And there's this big chart of all these different people who played with the pretenders, either on the road or on records and when they were in there and all that kind of stuff. - I can tell you, one of the people just to give you an idea of Blair Cunningham is an American drummer who played with people like Echo and the Bunnyman. He played with haircut 100. He played with Paul McCartney a little bit, Shoday. He did a little bit of banging sticks with. So they've had some very interesting personnel jump in over the years. Bernie War L played on the close record. - Johnny Moore. - Tommy Mandel. - So yeah. - I've seen you boy, yeah, lots of people. - Yeah, so they've had some pretty incredible musicians. So it shows you the respect that Chrissy and Martin have achieved and obtained over the decades for their music, for their songwriting, for their attitude and for everything that's rock and roll. So a very impressive group of musicians that they have played with over the decades. - Well, time to take it out of fifth gear, Marcus and kind of ease off the throttle, put it in the barn and get ready for our next episode here on the podcast, so much fun. Don't forget to reach out and touch us at [email protected]. Always a good way to find us or on Facebook. Find us there or our website, which is the center of the universe for us really. It's imbalancedhistory.com. Well, it's time to go, bro, I'm Ray Cooom. - I'm Marcus and the Darkest. - Thanks to Chrissy Hiner, the pretenders, for so much to talk about on this episode of the imbalanced history. - Rock and roll.