Ep.1 Alex Feder

[Music] There's going to be somebody who is better than you at the thing that you do. At least some capacity, right? Like, either they know more or they've accomplished more or an instrument they're faster or they can play more styles or whatever. And if you get caught up in that, it to me, it's just been a fast track to misery and wanting to give up. Episode 1. Welcome to the No Flakes Podcast. I'm Jeff Sabrew and that was Mr. Alex Federer, the current touring guitarist for Lincoln Park. I met Alex in 2017. I was actually replacing him for Enrique Glacius as the lead guitarist. And since then, we've done quite a few tours, quite a few one-offs. I've gotten to know him really well. And I hope you enjoy my conversation pop and pop with Alex Federer. So, Alex Federer, the current lead guitar player for Lincoln Park. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I like to add the caveat, the current touring lead guitar player for Lincoln Park. Lincoln Park's guitar player, Brad Delson, is still in the band, Lincoln Park. He just doesn't like touring, at least for now. Who knows what the future will bring. But for this album cycle, Brad has decided he doesn't like touring. So he's involved in all the other parts of being a band, but he hates touring. And I happened to love touring. So here I am. And then fast forward, 10 years where someone else is going to be interviewing the next Alex Federer saying, "Alex Federer, he just hates touring." And so I'm subbing for Alex Federer who is subbing for Brad. And there's going to be a long line. Soon, yeah. Soon we're going to be very many degrees removed from the actual member of the band. It's just going to be people subbing for one another. Which, to be fair, is not that different from what regular touring is like. It's just like whoever can make it shows up. Exactly. And I totally get it. And that's an amazing gig. But I want to go, I want you to take me way back. I don't even know where you're from. Are you from Connecticut or New York? You're not that far off. My mother is from Connecticut. My father is from New York. I assume you didn't know either of these things. But I grew up in Maryland outside of BC. And I lived there for the first 18 years of my life. I went to a private Jewish school with no music program to speak up. That's not true. It existed. But it basically was like a garage band where the music teacher would print out. Like from a harmony central. You remember that when it would be like, I want to play Santa Monica by ever clear. And it would just say like, I am still living with your guts. And on the top of the screen, G. And then the next word, black boots. And some gays. Yeah. G. That's how we like that's how I learned to play was just with those chord sheets and whatever. And then I went to New York University for jazz. I went for jazz because I thought I wanted to play jazz. Right. I pretty quickly learned that. I want to be in a rock band. And I thought that I liked the theory part of jazz. I liked the sort of technical know how of jazz. And I didn't want to go to school for classical. And I wanted to go to a regular college that had people who were non musicians as well. I didn't want to go to Berkeley School of Music or Music Music, Musicians Institute or one of those. But then I pretty quickly learned that if you don't listen to jazz all the time and my high school had no jazz band, I know. It wasn't in my ear. It wasn't in my fingers. And I sounded like a really terrible rock I'm faking at playing jazz. So by sophomore year, I had this teacher, Israeli dude named Morty Furber. And he was is was and is a monster guitar player. And I was like, I'm never going to be as good as Morty is on the guitar. And he's busy teaching schmucks like me. So I was like, my bright idea was I'll be in a band that ought to work out. So yes, so then I was in a rock band called the X Y Z affair. We were not successful. We had like briefly flirted with the whole like, oh my god, managers want to talk to us. Eventually the band broke up. By this point, I was 28. My ex girlfriend was from Los Angeles. I've been living in New York all this time. I was going to move to LA. I had no clue what I was going to do. And then I got a call from a friend of mine who was friends with Van Romaine drummer for Latin sensation Enrique Glacias, who you're very familiar with. I guess, yeah, for those of you who don't know Jeff and I did the Enrique tour for years together. Yeah, well, we'll get into that a little bit. Yeah. Okay. And then and then and he just said, you want audition? I auditioned and that started my touring career. So I wasn't sure what I was going to do before LA. And then all of a sudden I was playing for Enrico. Yeah. Enrico. Or Enrique is my dad says. So let's slow down a little bit because I know a little bit more about it. Now, wasn't it you did some shitty gig that led you to meeting Van? Like, didn't you tell me never in a million years call it a shitty gig? Oh, I'm sorry. I mean, that was it was something that I remember you said you were question. You're like, man, do I really want to do this? What you're referring to was this is the shitty part. This is this is ostensibly the not, like not glamorous part. I was in my band and I just wanted to do stuff on the side. And I was looking through Craig's list and there was an ad just like band looking for a guitar player. For real, I'm not just saying this because I imagine at least one of them will listen to this. It was not a shitty band. It was it was a really cool good band. I'm sorry. It was known. You said Jeff, I'll give you the email address you can apologize for. I could. No, but but yeah, no, I mean, like the shitty part is that it was like an audition through. Craigslist and then we played I don't know if you've ever played pianos in New York City. It's a bar that I sink holds 50 people like that was the kind of so it was not glamorous at all. Band was good, but it was it was it certainly wasn't big. I became really close friends with the drummer in that band. Shout out my friend star of saying I literally just talked to him on the phone last night. He is the person who he was in a band. And then called the bass player of that band as they were rehearsing and the bass player said, does anyone know someone who would be good for this and sorry, I've said try my friend Alex. So yes, it was I do like to say that it was it was from very enough, spacious circumstances that almost every single thing in my career came because I think you would think like, OK, I don't think they were even paying me it was like, you know, but we drive in two cars to get the gigs like, you know, one car ahead half the drums and the other ad, you know, the other half and the guitar and so whatever. So nothing glamorous playing for 50 people, but in the end, I'm really good friends with Sarab. I still keep in touch with the other two guys in that band as well. And I think the main thing that people don't really, I don't know if you get this. I get a lot of like my mom will say, Oh, like this woman from the synagogue her son wants to be a musician. Would you talk to him? And I think people always think of the very practical parts like what kind of lessons should I take how much should I practice? Should I have this kind of gear? What should I listen to? Should I go to music school? The real thing is just like being a dude who people want to hang out with because the point is if I had shown up that a minute, and I would have said, yeah, try this dude Alex who I was in a band with and he's a dick. Exactly. And getting your butt out there, someone lady was backstage last week when I was playing with five for fighting. And she was a friend with someone and she asked the same question. She goes, I just don't get it. Like she's like, I'm a singer and I don't understand how you go from just playing music to playing in national bands. How do you do that? And I'm like, honestly, you just have to get out there and just meet people. You just have to know it's not like you go like, I'm going to go to this audition. You know, like we all know how those goes like where it's like, I'm going to go to an audition. We're auditioning for Avril Lavigne, ladies and you know, it's like, I've never gotten an open cattle. I've done two open cattle call edition three. I've never gotten one of those for whatever it's worth. So it's just about smashing pumpkins. No. And that one I didn't even get a call back. I was like, I did you know this because I was talking to you like a lunatic about this. I was re-planning my pedal board. I did all planned out. I was like, Billy Corgan uses a big muff and the EQ of a big muff is all highs and all those. So I'm going to get very made focused over. Like that's how deep into it. I got and they didn't even call me to come do an audition at all. Like I was just in fully crazy town. But no, but you know what's funny about taking a fact to my band. I firmly did not get that. I was never like big drinking. Well, listen, you do start a lot of touring can lend itself towards alcohol consumption. But when I was younger and in a band and stuff. There's no drugs, no drinking, no partying. I had some sort of leftover resentment from when I was a teenager, when I was a teenager, there was this band, they were before the time when I was a teenager, but there was a band called Minor Threat that are a hardcore band from DC. That I thought was so cool, and their whole thing was straight edge. So no drugs, no boo, no drugs, no boo is no, I think I'll have to put my phone on, I do not disturb, so this doesn't get it. - I know, my wife did. - It's blown up. - Wait, no, Henry Rawlings, he was Black Flag, right? - Henry Rawlings was Black Flag, but straight edge too, yeah. - Ian McKay, Ian McKay, I've never known how to say it from Fugazi, his first band was called Teen Idols, and that when he was like 15, and then they did Minor Threat, they released like, I think a total of like 24 minutes of music or whatever, but it was really like a seminal work in hardcore land. And if you're sort of an angsty teenager, and for me, the party thing didn't resonate, I liked this whole, like, yeah, I don't drink, I'm part of another thing, the not drinking thing, that just felt cool to me, but the problem is that carried over to, like I took it too far. I thought that people who drank at all, even socially or smoked an occasional joint, were just losers, man. And so, I had like a lot of hangups, and when I was in my 20s and an abandoned, like I just did no socializing, you know? Like I wanted my, I was like, I don't get it. I'm working so hard, our songs are complex, and we have four part harmonies, and there were a lot of musical issues with the band anyway, and when I look back on it. But at the time I was like, why is this other band that sucks, get to open for Vampire Weekend? I called email their agent, and he didn't even respond to me. And I was like, yeah, because they're taking their friends on tour. Like the band they have opened for them, is a band they are friends with. The people who are coming on the tour, is they are a band that they wanna hang out with for a tour. Nobody cares if they're just blown away, unless you are making just sergeant peppers, like you made the best album ever or whatever. Sure, then people might wanna be friends with you just based on quality, but by and large, it's sort of like the two have to work in tandem. You have to be a good musician or be in a good band, and you have to be friends with people. And I was so bitter about why my band wasn't able to succeed, while I just absolutely adamantly refused to hang out with anybody. I was like, I'm gonna sit in my room and work on the production for this song, and then call the email five bands that I like, and then be upset when they don't reply to me. - Yeah, and they better reply to me. - Yeah, I'm working hard. I've earned it. - I've earned it. I've earned this reply. - No, so the point is like, listen man, I don't know if the band was ever any good, honestly. But even if we were objectively great, if I took the same tactic, we would have met with the same result, which is we would have gotten anywhere. And it's the same. There are a million dudes who can shred circles around me who are never gonna go on a tour because they're just sitting at home, and they're like either anti-social or asocial or difficult or can't get over themselves, or maybe just honestly, I mean, the sad part is, probably a lot of dudes who are just shy or live in the wrong city. Like if you're the best dude, and you're really well liked in Wichita, and you never get out of Wichita, then you're probably gonna stay that way. I've been like a little clinic, Alejandra. I'm just gonna call her Alejandra now. I'm gonna stop saying my girlfriend Alejandra. She's gonna come up a thousand times. Alejandra teaches at the School of Rock in Mexico City. She's a vocalist and she teaches voice lessons there. It's super cool. I like going and seeing kids playing honestly, the same shit that you and I played. It's not like, oh, they're onto some other stuff that we've never heard of. It's the same stuff. - Yeah, it's fucking seven nation army and shit. - Yeah, I mean, and before that, it's like they're playing journey and what it's great. And grunge stuff, it's awesome. And I went and taught like a little clinic or whatever for them. And I said, I was like, if you want to, if I lived in Mexico City and I wanted to be a musician for hire for a US based act, I probably need to move to Latin national Los Angeles. I can be the best guitar player, but if I'm just not in the right spot, or if I want to work for a British artist, I probably need to move to London. Like there are cities that this industry is based out of and you have to know people there. So it's like being friends with people, being in the right spot. I think and then dude, there's luck. There's just like, there is a lot of luck to it. - Totally and just grinding at it. And I mean, for me, there's a lot of imposter syndrome. I always feel because I look around and I'm like, damn dude, I'm like, I guess my superpower is, I show up on time. That's the, I'm the best at that. I'm the best at showing up on time as much as I can. Definitely not the best guitar player. - That's funny. Dude, you're a monster guitar player. I think we all suffer from imposter syndrome. Just talking about this. The other day, Lincoln Park play. Okay, actually, I want to first touch on the being on time thing. Historically, I am a three minutes late guy and I have really worked on that and I have been spot on time for every single lobby call for the last like almost two years of Lincoln Park. I have no. If there was one time that I was late, it was because, oh shoot, I just realized I forgot something and I would text and go, I forgot. It wasn't just 'cause I was screwing around and took my time and didn't get there on time. It's also funny 'cause I'm so used to for higher land where it's like, you know, buy and large people are on time. And especially like, if you're a rehearsal for an artist and there's a music director and they're like, rehearsal starts at 10. I'd show up at 9.30, like 9.45 latest. 'Cause the point is like, I intend to at least show that I could be ready if I needed to play a note, you know, play a chord at 10. - Right. - With this 'cause their band guys is just different. I show up at like 9.57. Dude, we don't get started. It's like everyone kind of shows up over the course the next half hour. We sit in chat for an hour. Then we play, it's a very funny, it's a different world. - It's different. - Band world is different and I really enjoy it. - That's so cool. - But with regards to Imposter Syndrome, what I was gonna say is we were playing last year Lincoln Park played the FIFA, UEFA, sorry UEFA, I'm not a football guy pardon me, everyone who listens, who's into football. - You were soccer for us. - Soccer for us who had to. - Yes, sorry. I guarantee you that the majority of people are gonna listen to this, they're gonna be from Brazil and Germany, so I'm gonna try and keep it in there. - Yeah, so yeah. - Let's keep it real. And we did the UEFA World Champ, God, I don't even know what it was called. It was like the Champ League. - It was the Champ League. - Yeah. - It was the pre-show thing we played right before the game. The finals, like the last one or whatever. It's the one, all I know is for me, it's the one that's not the World Cup, it's the other one. - And for any of you who think this is just me being like, I don't pay attention to European football. I watched the other day, I watched my first Super Bowl since 1992, I'm just not a sports guy. (laughing) - The last time I watched was when they were watching the redskins at the time, now they're called the commanders. They were in because they had like a superstar quarterback named Mark Ripon, and that's the last time that I watched the Super Bowl. So we were playing this, and it was like, I think the in the stadium was 60,000 people or something, and then the amount of people watching was like, tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people. And we stayed at this hotel, and the hotel had a really nice little bar, Lounge Bar, that had a little jazz trio playing. And there was a guitar player playing at this, whoever you are, a guitar player at the Rosewood Hotel in Munich. Dude, this guy was burning, he sounded so good, and I'm sitting here going, man, tomorrow I am going to be playing for like in total 100 million people. And this guy playing at the hotel bar smokes me. Like he's way better than I am. And I just like, I feel bad about myself, and it was a long conversation that I had with my guitar teacher about it. He's really good, shout out to Mark Cutpertson. I take lessons actually from a lot of different people these days, but I consider him like the executive producer of my guitar growth. Like he sort of oversees, I think, the general path of where I want to head as a player. Is that fantastic boom? I don't know his real name. That is fantastic. Oh, yeah, he's a very interesting character. Yeah. He is a character, and he's a really, to me, unique guitar player. He has the thing that I want, which is, he just plays a note, and you go, oh, well, that guy can play the guitar. Even if he doesn't play any fast stuff or any weird stuff or whatever, he plays, he just hits one note, and I don't know exactly what it is. We've talked about it, but I think he has the magic sauce. You know, so that was why I reached out to him, because I was like, I'm never going to be this sort of circles back to the imposter syndrome and that guy. I think being confident in what I want from the instrument. Yeah, I was like, the most technical guy, I can probably think of it at anything is Guthrie Gov'n, right? Gov'n, Guthrie Gov'n. He can play. any style like he can pick really fast, he can do it on a koozy guitar, he can play gypsy jazz, he can do crazy sweep picking or left hand legato stuff, he can play country stuff, he can do cool slow bendy Jeff Bex, like he can do everything completely perfectly and probably better than other people who that's their only specialty. And with all do with all do respect, I will never be that good at the guitar and I don't really care about his guitar playing. And so yeah, so I you know, I got out, I've never seen shit about go through go. Have you ever seen that meme where it's like at this dude and he's just shredding shredding shredding shredding and his daughter sitting there and then he stops and she goes, you played all the notes and everything, but I just don't care. You said that to me and it was so funny and so perfect. But you played all the notes, but like who cares? Like you care? I mean, that says a lot right there. It's a funny thing where and it's no disrespect to any player really truly in any style because like I said, I mean like it there's no world in which I would posit that I would ever be even a fraction as good as Guthrie is. But some players played something and I immediately care and other players play and I just it just doesn't interest me. I don't know why it's just a taste thing. I personally I do I really dig the Guthrie stuff. He is a little like machine like in a lot of ways. Maybe I'm bitter though because he got really mad at me when I wanted to take a selfie with him after a show one time and so that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. This is awesome. People are gonna see this by the way. I don't know if you're allowed to edit these at all. But so the thing for me was sort of what what it was tapping into was my teacher Mark was like if you took this like lobby guitar players thing to it's for this possible degree which is like he sounded very professional. Every phrase that he played sounded pro he was using enclosures and like just like smart guitar stuff. And and he was like was it that is playing like moved you or that you thought it was special or unique. I said no I don't think it was that he just sounded great really like a correct yeah. And and he was like if you took that to it's for this possible degree you get Guthrie do you want to sound like that yeah I was like not really. He was like okay great then we can dismiss that whole line of thinking that like that guy's better than me. And so therefore I'm I'm a piece of shit and I'll never be any good and I practice this hard and I'm playing for this many people but this guy's better. And what I love about working with Mark is what we're trying to hone in on. From years of songwriting I slowly developed I thought my own style whether it was any good is certainly certainly up for debate and possibly the debate is done. The debate has been settled it wasn't any good but but I never really put any time into who I am as a player because and you know this as a hired gun I want to be competent and many things so that if the next gig that comes calling is an Americana gig okay I can play slide I'm not Derek Trucks but I could do the parts that you need you know and if the gig that comes is Naram Beegai okay I'm not Sharky but like I could I could do some little things that will convince you that I'm doing the thing but I've never really focused in any way on who is Alex as a guitar player and so I've been trying to find that I've been trying to focus on sort of like what players resonate with me and what do I want to say on the instrument because I think no matter whether we're talking about guitar or really anything in life there's going to be somebody who's better than you at the thing that you do and at least some capacity right like yeah either they know more or they've accomplished more or you know on an instrument they're faster or they can play more styles or whatever and if you get caught up in that it to me it's just been a fast track to misery and wanting to give up. Totally there was a studio producer that I worked with he said the most profound thing that's so simple because I said the same thing I was like sitting in on a session I think snarky puppy was in the studio I use I was interning at fantasy studios and in the Bay Area and so we'd see a lot of artists and he he knew I played guitar and I was like man you know it's just like god there's so many good players and he's like but the thing is nobody is you every single guitar player is different they're going to play different you have to hold on to the same thing you're saying and same thing that your your teacher Mark said who also he broke my brain actually through a few messages but yeah everybody's different you kind of get I always think like you have to kind of get in where you fit in you know like too short you just have to figure out what's your thing yeah and it's important because you can't sit there and go like oh I can't play as fast as this guy and and whatever but yeah so I want to fast forward a little bit with you because you you're so you get to LA through whatever you get into Enrique's band and you're what 28 at this point exactly 28 years old yep okay which is quite young to get into a band like that that's that busy touring internationally and so how long did you do that for yeah I did it straight from 2000 uh elect January 2011 was my first gig in Puerto Rico and then I I left like I thought pretty conclusively in 2017 yeah for personal reasons yes oh yeah well oh yeah I mean not enough we hope how far you want to dig into that but I was I was ready to move on I needed a break from touring in general I took six months off from any touring at all and just kind of try to figure my life out a little bit yeah and you you were to be the the person who replaced me and we got together for for a couple of sessions and you learned the songs at rehearsal sessions you learned the songs you did a great job you lasted two gigs and then they fired you and then they brought you back and then they brought you back two years later so not to get into my you know war stories but I want to I want to touch on something real quick that I don't know if you want to share this I remember you telling me this though at kind of going back to like imposter syndrome and like playing big shows but within reek and with any pop artist and any artist you do a lot of different shows and sometimes because of logistics you have to play to tracks sometimes you're not even playing right and so you told me a story where I don't know if this is when your downfall started hop happening with playing with him where you're like maybe I want to do something else but you told me you played you guys played it wimbley and and it was your playing it wimbley this is like something you probably dream of as a kid like I'm gonna play it wimbley so you probably wouldn't even imagine whatever happened so you do it but because of whatever you had to completely use playback it's so you weren't even playing and I think you told me you're like dude I didn't play that show I mime the show and it got extremely fucked up after that's accurate I believe I got fucked up before to be fair I yeah yeah and that is and it's funny man I think people think I remember a bunch of years ago chili peppers did like a guest spot during Bruno Mars halftime show and ever and lost their minds because their instruments weren't plugged in right and I was like guys a lot of times people aren't playing when it's something that's that hectic you know the reason that the Enrique show was mime was it was a radio show so it was like we come out everyone comes out and plays three songs so the vocals are live for that and the instruments are mime and listen man like I am still an idealist I practice the guitar for I woke up in practice for two hours this morning I'm gonna get another hour or two and later like I care about improving I have taken two lessons from two different teachers this week like I listen to music I care about I I care about improving I care about my tone getting better I care about growing as a musician I like I care about I don't want to sound like cheesy pretentious guy I care about music and I really care about the thing that I do and sometimes in the performing world that's not not only is it not the top priority it might not be even on the list of priorities it might not make the top 10 and so it's hard because like yeah it's one thing if you're just like in a punk rock band you know if you're in Fugazi forever then you get to be in Fugazi forever and I don't know what their financial situation looks like but the point is the ideal remains the most important thing at some point I remember so back to this mashing pumpkin thing I thought this was funny mashing pumpkins for those of you don't know now 2023 January 2024 January 2024 yeah they posted we're looking for a new guitar player because they're touring guitarist Jeff got I can't think of this last name now that's funny um he left so they just posted an open call and I wanted to do that so badly because that was a band that I grew up with I loved that band and if I can I don't want to mess you up here but to pause because we had already done you and I what two tours within reggae and so we started these tours and we both are just we would like see and catering and go, we're not gonna say anything negative about anything this whole time, right? And so, the tour is just where you down though, and towards the end we're both pretty worn out, and you, the whole time you're like, I just want to play in a rock band, man. Like you were saying it the whole time you're like, I just want to play in a freaking rock band. So then this pumpkin thing came up, and you latched onto that shit, you're like, you know what? I'd never do this, but I'm gonna fucking do this thing. I'm gonna really do it, you know? I, I, I, for whatever it's worth less anybody misunderstand what we're saying. It's just the pop tour thing. It's not like neither was we like talking any shit for real, because I mean, I've gotten not only time of experience, but a ton of joy, and the cool thing that I love about tour, I love getting on stage. I love playing with people who I like being around, you know? And like, I love the guys in that band, and it has brought me a lot of joy, but there comes a certain time. And I think it's because of my own internal stuff, like, yeah, I, I used to like sit and listen like nine inch nails before we'd go on stage, or like my sugar before we'd go on stage, because I was just like, I don't know, it was, it was something that I felt passionate about. And I just felt at a certain point, like I wanted to be playing something that I felt like I was putting a little bit more into. And when the pumpkin thing came along in my head, it was like a sign, you know, I, I had been talking to you. I've been talking to Evan, I know I've been talking to my therapist, like I want to play rock music. Like I grew up, the reason that I took up the guitar is to play rock music. It's not to smile and have girls think I'm cute on stage at a pop show where they can't really hear me playing. You know, that was like, I, I, again, I don't want to talk shit, but it was a bummer. And by the way, I listened to and have for decades listened to a ton of pop music. So this isn't even a snobbery about it has to be this kind of music or it has to be weird punk rock or it has to be whatever. By any stretch, for me, it's just that like rock music is guitar based you and I play guitar. So like if you are playing on music that is not guitar based, the guitar might add a supplemental thing, but you're not really that important a part of the show is just. In terms of the musical contribution, I mean, to be fair, you listen to the song escape. I don't think there's guitar on that song. There's not it's all synthesizers. It's and same with same with I like it, same with all the way. That's why my favorite ones to the center actually like the more Latin ones that have the nylon string stuff. And I took flamenco lessons for that tour, so that I was using my hand right hand forward and like, whatever I do, whether it's the thing that I grew up with, which was grunge or not, which has been everything that I've done professionally, just not grunge. I want to try and feel good about it, you know, so like so when the pumpkin thing came along, I filmed an audition. I felt really good about it in my head. I was very delusional about my chances of getting it and I, as you know, and as I said, I was planning the gear for it, et cetera. I have a friend, one of my close friends, Luis Munoz was my tech when I was playing for a singer named LP. And he also tech for the pumpkins. And when I posted my little audition video on my Instagram, Luis reposted it and said, congratulations, @stillagratenight, which is my Instagram handle. Congratulations, @stillagratenight on you know, you knew, you knew, you knew, you had with the pumpkins. And there was a Reddit forum for the pumpkins that found it and was basically just hit talking me because they were like, this guy is a soulless, higher gun, hill play, any mute because because rockets are so obvious. Oh, dude, I was, I was, I was really heartbroken about it. But their, their main thesis was because for the last handful of years, I've toured playing pop music that I'm a sell out with no integrity. And therefore I should never be in a band like this, mashing pumpkins. I did not know this. And we just, I'll quickly, we brushed over a large section of your career where you played with LP and you did some stuff with Miley and you did some stuff with Natasha Betty. We don't have to get it briefly. We'll briefly sum it up in 2017 when I left Enrique. I want to try other stuff and I started playing with a singer called LP, who was much smaller, but it was really, it was a gig that I loved and the gig actually grew quite a bit while I was on it. So I did that for five years steadily mixed in there. I filled in for my friend Max with Miley Cyrus a couple of times after five years with LP. It was the same. I think I just kind of get burned out after a while. And so I want to try something else. I filled in for my friend Rob Castro. He's the guitarist for Natasha Bettingfield. So I did Natasha Bettingfield. I did one acoustic promo show with Ellie Golding filling in for Rod. And then Enrique came knocking in 2023 for that tour with Ricky and Pitbull. And I was like, like I said, there's a lot that I love about that gig and that job and that tour. So even if I've done years and I was like ready to move on to something else for any number of personal reasons. I was like, yeah, like I want to I want to go on tour with the old gang. And this is going to be fun. And that was what brought us to that tour. And then, but you know, I think I one lesson that I learned for myself is if I am not going to feel invested in something, if somebody's going to call a rehearsal that I don't feel I need and I'm going to be busy about it. That's a sign that it's not a gig I should be on the rehearsal is like this is our job. If they call us for a soundtrack. It is our job to be there. And if I'm going to be cranky about it, then that means it's an environment that I shouldn't be in. Not that it's the wrong environment that it's like I should know myself and go, this isn't where I should be. That was unfortunately true for me and I look back and I feel sort of like a little bummed. I just feel like I was a really negative version of myself on that tour. It's not how I want to be on tour. Like if I'm going to be on a tour, I want to be like, you know, a guy who ever is happy to be around and is array of sunshine. And I just got real negative on that tour. And so I think when the pumpkins thing came along, I was like, oh my God, this is the thing that's going to save me. And then when that post happened, that was always my fear was I was like, I'm never going to get I'm never going to get like a cool gig because everyone's going to this guy will play anybody who will pay, you know, pay the check for him or whatever. And I thought I was an interesting concept. I was like, if I had when let's say an arcade come calling and I was like, that's pop music. I'm not going to play that screw you. I'm going to continue playing in a bar once a week for like $75 to play from 10 p.m. to 1 p.m. which is in New York gig that I had for a long time. And I'm going to continue playing my own band making no money and my friends ban making no money because I just know that one day smashing pumpkins are going to come calling and see my value. Yeah. When they come calling, I'm going to have no large touring experience. I will never have been on a stage for more than 250 people. I will have never used in your monitors. I will have never used digital modellers. Like all of the things that prepare you for a professional touring environment. There are general thesis was you shouldn't like it's all about integrity. And if you, by the way, it's not like I was playing for like the Chevron National touring band where there were like moral scruples about taking it. I was just playing music that they don't think is cool like they don't respect it. And so therefore they're like this guy who's a qualified professional touring musician with decades of experience shouldn't get the gig. It should be the guy who's been fighting it out in the bars like just like keeping you as integrity all the time. And this sort of speaks to the issue with musicians and music as an industry and the way people perceive music. In an ideal world, we would all exclusively play in our own bands making the music that we care the most about and everything we do would be only because it came 100% from the heart. But you know what I'm 43 years old. I like I would like to be able to pay my rent. I'd like to be able to save touring is brutal on the body. I don't want to be doing it when I'm 70 years old. Like I need to be able to save. I need to be able to retire one day. I need to be able to pay my rent and support my family and do all of these things. And so like I think I've gotten pretty good at finding really beautiful parts whether it was ever music that I listened to grow and up or not. Like I love the stuff that I am playing on stage and I find the thing that I like and it turns into this thing where I go I can't even tell whether this record is good or any more because like I know that I'm applying my sort of almost like positivity bias like I'm going like yeah this is awesome. I love every one of these songs whatever and and people need to accept that there is a professional side of the music industry and you're not just lucky to play the guitar. And so therefore we're going to pay you nothing. There's like a whole thing going on where I talked about this when I did an interview on Anderton's TV last year where the general feeling is like you and I now have decades of professional experience on big stages in different countries different stages different what have different artists. Flying around being jet lag still getting on stage still putting on a show still smiling still acting like you know we're exhausted whatever like that is touring I'm not trying to make it sound like it's some sort of nightmare I love it is why choose to do it but it is not the easiest of jobs and just because it is very glam. and there are some really awesome parts to it. You get to do things that look really cool to the kids you want to high school with. You know what I mean? Like they think you're the coolest guy you know. And that's awesome, but it is a job. And it's a job that I take very seriously and that I put a lot of work and a lot of passion into. I knew that today I have like, we're taking our dog to the vet. And then I have like, I have disappointed in that appointment, blah, blah, blah. I knew I wasn't gonna get to practice so I woke up early so I could get two hours in the morning. Like, it is a job. - Yeah, I take it seriously. I'm not on tour right now. I'm between tours. I don't need to do that, but I do it because it is a job that I'm dedicated to and I take seriously. And I think there comes this thing where people like the, if money is a consideration for you whatsoever at any point, then that means you have no soul and you're a sell out. And pardon me, but go fuck yourself. Like this is what I do as a profession. You never tell a lawyer like, yeah man, like it's all about that. Or the example I always give, the friend gave me was, if somebody came to your house, you needed your house to be re-roofed. You need a new roof on your house. And they quoted you, okay, cool. Like it's gonna cost $5,000. And they're like, our budget's a little stretch right now. We can do it for 800 and we're not gonna pay you on this day and this day and whatever. It would be a no. But what are you talking about? I'm offering the professional service and that's what it costs. But with music, it's this constant. The new one that I will go, I will die on this hill so hard. The new thing that management will do, this is a message to all you hire musicians, as they will say, we're gonna pay you half on days that you're not playing a show. Because we're not playing a show. So we're not making any money that is, so we're gonna pay you half. This embedded in this arrangement is some sort of implication that I'm being paid based on the show income. Yeah. But for those of you who don't know, in other countries, I know the way it works is you actually get paid a gig rate. Like, so you're like, I'm playing this show. It's on Saturday, I'm getting paid. Let's say I'm getting paid, I'll say a thousand dollars. And that's the whole weekend. Like, you're gonna have to travel whatever, but the rate is that's the whole weekend. The way US hire musicians get paid is a day rate, by and large. So it's just like, I get paid the same. If I play Wendley Stadium, I get paid the same as the next day when it's a day off. And the thing is, if you just look at the Wendley Stadium day, that's very poultry. Like, the amount that I would get paid for that day is nothing, but the point is you spread it out over the year and then you're making a salary, like that then you're making a decent living. Yeah. I am not getting a percentage of tickets. Exactly. So if the next day is a day off, it's irrelevant to me. It's a day that I'm away from home. I'm away from my family. I'm away from my dog and my girlfriend. I'm away from my bed. And it's a day that I cannot be doing other work. So it's irrelevant to me. I will play seven days a week. I'll play twice a day, seven days a week. If that's how you want to play in your tour, I'll be there and I'll do it. I am ready and available for all of the days that I'm on tour. If anybody approaches you and says, half rate on days off, tell them to go fuck themselves, tell them no. I will die on this hill. This may mean that I'm not going to get work in the future and I don't care. It's not right. I work hard on my days off when I'm home that I don't have to. And so for me, that's what I put in and the payoff is when I'm on tour, I'm getting paid. Man, this took a real, we kind of cornered. That's all we got ladies and gentlemen out. No, no, no. That's two musicians who will never get hired again. Aim into that and feeling that so much. So I know you got a wrap pretty soon. So let's, I just want to get into one more thing until you got the Lincoln Park because we were talking back and forth through the whole summer before you got into the Lincoln Park gig, the smashing pumpkins thing kind of came and went. I guess I didn't know about the Reddit thing. You obviously that happened. You were bummed. I could tell you were getting a little bit depressed through the summer just through our text because the one thing, the one thing that really set it off, you were like, this Alex Federer has always been the one that I think you've always said that you're like, dude, my favorite guitarist is Neil Young. Like I'm not into jazz. I like we would play, I've always been kind of a fusion and we'd play like fusion and you're just like, I just am not feeling that. I don't get it, which is very on the other side of most musicians these days. Everyone's like, oh my god, the whole, you know, like the fusion thing and you'd never gave a shit. So in the summer though, you send me a text, you're like, man, I'm really getting into jazz lately. And I'm like, oh, I'm like something's wrong. I was like, Alex is actually depressed. I was like, I was like, I'm concerned. And so like I could just tell you you're kind of going through it and like I think even, mission, you're like, man, I might even just like go back to school or something 'cause I knew you didn't want to do pop anymore. And you're like, I might just, I don't know what I'm gonna do, you know, like just nothing's coming that I like. Then in Rika had a gig and you were always kind of on the burner for those and we had some private in wherever the fuck to buy or something and you're like, I can't do it. And I was like, oh, what's going on? You're like, I can't tell you. I signed the NDA. And so the whole time I'm thinking, well, yeah dude, he's, he got another amazing pop gig. And I was like, dude, I know it's in sync. I know it's in sync. Oh yeah, I'm probably in sync. And so the whole time I'm like, it's gotta be in sync. I know it's in sync because I was like, they're gonna do it to her. I knew the sound guy for that. And I was like, are they gonna do it? He's like, maybe in the time worked out. So I was convinced it was in sync. Then my sound guy friend was like, no, they're not gonna do it. And I was like, oh shit, it's not in sync. Who could it be? I went to bed one night and I saw on like some publication, Lincoln Park's getting back together. And I was like, wow, that's really cool. And they got a new singer and she's a female. That's awesome. I went to sleep. And the next morning, I got a text from you of a video of Lincoln Park playing. And I kind of watched it and I was like, yeah dude, I saw they're getting back together. That's so cool. And I was like, wait a minute. And you were in the video, dude. And I was just like, I don't think I've not, I don't think. I know I've never been more excited for a friend of mine to get a gig like that. I was just like, wow, he went to the next level. He got out of the pop world. It was amazing. I got so many nice texts and calls and messages from friends yours included that that, I don't know man, it felt really good. And it does sort of speak to the point is like for me, it is a dream. But there's a lot to cover in there. The first is I listen to, I don't know what happened to me. I listened to like almost exclusively like Fusion and Yiddish folk songs these days. I'm in like the weirdest, weirdest place. It's like just Alan holds worth records and Yiddish folk songs. Like I can in any way defend my music taste at all. And I sit and practice. There's one holds worth lick from, I think it's from his live Tokyo album. No, no, no, it's this one lick and I transcribed it and I am determined. I sit and practice it. I'm determined. I'm going to play it at the end of my fance solo in front of like 70,000 people. Exactly. And that will be the most people that anyone has ever played a holds worth lick for, including Alan holds worth. Yeah. This is amazing because I feel like like five years ago, could you even give a shit about Alan holds worth like five years? I thought it was cool, but I. No, it wasn't where I was at. I think the thing that resonates with me now is he just feels like a very sort of thing we're talking about. There are guys who can play faster as faster faster. I mean, he has plenty of technical facility, but to me, he's just as figured out such a unique voice that you hear it or you hear anyone who sounds like it, you go, well, that's Alan holds worth. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so unique. And that is what I think started speaking to me about it. To be fair, it's the same thing that I love about Neil Young. Like when Neil Young plays, you're like, that's Neil Young. It does not anyone else. That is Neil Young. And if someone does the Neil Young thing, it sounds like Neil Young. Holds worth is the same. There's another guitarist who I've been listening to obsessively. I think I've shared a step of these names, Tim Miller, also a fusion guy in the vein of the holds or a thing. But it's the same. I'm like, he just figured out a new voice on the instrument. And I think that is why it speaks to me at the moment. And so I don't know when I rounded that corner, but I listened to a lot of jazz. I took a lesson last night from an amazing jazz player named Adam Levy. And we're working on the exercise he gave me. A sort of hoots. So such a good guitar player and the opposite of Holdsworth. Like not chopsy at all, like all feel. But saying, he plays a note, you look both like I can play the guitar. It's really crazy. He played on the big Nora Jones record. Yeah, yeah, right. And dude, that's amazing guitar parts. That is amazing. Amazing. And not a lot of notes, not a lot of notes. He sounds amazing. He also plays the lead lines on Gimme One Reason by Tracy Chapman. Yeah, yeah. If you go back to that, it's just like you go, you're like, whoa, this is amazing guitar playing. Who is it? Is this dude I'm glad? He's the sweetest guy. So the point is my interest in different styles of playing remains now weird and eclectic. And I've I have rounded the corner. So now I've joined in the fusion jam stirring sound checks. You know what? I don't want to go to far on what I'm listening to. But it's just because I still I play in my 80s tribute band. And this week we're doing a Michael Bolton. I don't want to live with that. What is it? And it's my plan. How am I supposed to get Michael and I does the solo in that. So it's just to touch on a genius guitar player that plays over pop. We're all on my gut. That's how I do it. And you go, that's how I do it. I want to play the chords because they're an EA play in bar chords. I'll tell you that much. Dude, he's so good. And I remember the first time I even was ever even aware of Michael Landau was a few years ago. I saw an interview with Joey Landriff, who's an amazing guitar player of Canada. And he was saying his favorite guitarist is Michael Landau. And I was like, you mean the guy who plays all the pop shit? Like what do you, I thought he was joking. And then I went and checked it out. And for a guy, I don't know who is listening to this or who be interested in this. But charisma, he had a band with Vinnie Caliuda. And like he's just like, he just sounds like fusion Hendrix. He's an amazing guitar player. And when he needs to play pop music, he is like just right in the middle. He can do it perfectly. But when he wants to play weird fusion shit, he can do a perfectly man. I mean, what a monster guitar player also. But you and I have shared back and forth some stuff in the last couple of years. If it's where I'm just like, man, this guy is something else. He's something else. But so I play lots of different things now. It's funny that you took that as a sign of depression. You're probably not wrong. I was at the time. I'm just kidding. I know it. I know it jazzed. If I go down a deep jazz hole, I don't know. That sounds dirty, but I generally means I'm actually like depressed. If I'm like listening to like Charlie Parker for too long, it's like, oh boy, where you going? I don't know what this says about holds for me because I'm like, oh, I'm just listening to music based not even on like Western tone. Yeah, it's like Messy Ends mode. It's like, it's sort of objectively ugly music. And I'm going like, yes, all I want to hear is just the ugliest music I've ever heard. I was at a point where I was going, I think the idealistic part of me was more powerful than maybe the practical part, which is to say that I was like, what would come next that would actually make me happy? I never dreamed that it would be like a Lincoln Parker or a rock gig. And I was going, I love listening to pop music. I no longer love touring playing pop music as my full time job. What could even come along that would make me happy, that would financially sustain me, that would make me feel like this makes any sense? Like I've ticked all the boxes. I played a big, you know, like stadiums and arenas and I've been to a million countries. I was like, maybe I just did the thing and it's time for me to just figure out the next thing in my life. I could prove anything to anyone, maybe just like if it's not going to be something that brings me real creative joy or just like, what's the point? And then hilarious lay him out. Maybe just be a lawyer or something. I mean, but the point is like, I didn't know what it was because I've never done anything else. I've never thought about anything else, but I just thought, maybe this is the time, you know, maybe I should just sort of like listen to what's going on internally and pay attention to the signs externally and just go, this is the time. And then Lincoln Park came along and I love, dude, I love the gig. I mean, they are such nice people. I love playing that show. I still get to when we start somewhere I belong and the first, like we hit that first downbeat really hard and my coach comes out, go, let's go. I like to still get chills every time the show starts. When we have like, there's a bunch of songs we swap in and out and I love it. Like every time like, awesome, this set list that has this alternating song and this song, I like new songs. I like old songs. I just really enjoy it. And so it was cool for me to do something that was a different, I've really enjoyed every single tour I've done for real or I wouldn't have stuck with it. I mean, for years and years with Henry, for years and years with LP, I loved it a lot, but I just was ready for something else and then something else came along and Brad came calling and I was like, there it is. Let me give it a shot. And I, dude, I was very concerned that it was going to be, I wiped my social media. I wiped my social media except that makes sense. You told me and I was like, wow, he's really paranoid about this, but I didn't know that. >> Yeah, too. But I was like, what's going to happen? Their fans are going to go, this guy's a loser. He's played music that I don't care about and whatever. And the fine thing is it couldn't be further from the truth. Like their fans have been super, which I think speaks to the culture they've cultivated as a band. They're really nice guys and their fans are really nice. I've never gotten anything but love. I've never gotten any like screw this guy. Like he should be whatever they should have gotten, you know, in there or someone to beat like I've never got the no one has ever said anything like this is complimentary about my playing, complimentary about what I've contributed. And I try and just do me on stage, man, like I've always grinned like an idiot when I play. And like I'm grinning like an idiot, playing a metal now. And work in a hard and yes, same, same like I, you know, I took those flamenco lessons to try and get decent of the Enrique thing. I immediately launched into lessons with Mark to try and get the big picture of what I wanted. There's this guy called pernilson who's just like epic shredder from Sweden. I took some lessons from him. Oh, Christian Mendoza, who was another guitar player on the Enrique gig, amazing technical facility. He's been super, super helpful for me. Like just, yeah, amazing player, amazing technique and I'm very knowledgeable. He sends me all this fusion stuff he's listening to. He sent me how his right hand works. I am on a quest to just be as good as I can be because I've been the now afforded the opportunity to play music that I dig with people who treat me well and are kind to me. And yeah, like I don't know what else there is to say about it. It felt good that when I got those texts from people that I was like, I've tried. There have been people on tour that I have gotten along with. That's unavoidable. But I have tried by and large to be nice to people that I've worked with. And I think I've formed a lot of friendships and relationships. And I felt like people felt really happy for me to see me doing something that they knew I would dig. And that meant a lot to me. You know, like I worked hard on playing guitar and worked hard on building and sustaining friendships and relationships. And it was really cool seeing people's response to me doing this gig. Yeah, it was epic, man. I mean, I think there's one thing I've always appreciated about you. You're always real, like whether it rubs people the right way or the wrong way. You'll say what's on your mind. And I'm the same way too. And I always, I see a lot of people that just kind of hide and they just go along with it. And you know, you'd always speak your mind. And that's why I think we always got along because I'm like, I can connect with him. Like he's a real person, you know. And so certainly said it was like you were like a bench for a insanity for me that I was like, I got just there. We're going to be able to talk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, dude, I mean, everyone's so proud of you for the gig that you got. And I mean, you truly manifested it. So it was amazing. And one thing that I have to point out that looks, besides obviously the gig is amazing, the clothes you guys get to wear look so comfortable. They look super baggy. And it just looks, you don't get that much in the pop world. You know, I'm wearing jeans and you got all these things and it's so you get to go out like and you're just rocking and in comfy clothes. Like it just looks comfy and it's good because I'm getting older. So like when I did that on Rikator, I was pretty shredded. I'm not that shredded right now. I think I weigh like a good 20 pounds more and it's not muscle up. And I did. I'm like you and I vote for touring. I plan our fashion. It is like I'm all my bodies all messed up. So like, you know, I get to wear sneakers on stage. Like I'm not, I'm not complaining. It's epic, dude. So, okay, let's get you out of here. Couple just quick fire off questions. This one's for the guitar nerd in you, which is all of us, you know, the best and most of me. Yeah. Bridge or neck pickup. Oh, man, that's really hard. I have always been a neck pickup guy. Always when I'm lead tone, like always neck pickup. And then lately, I don't know why, but my new thing is bridge pickup tone rolled down, like halfway with like some body music. Yeah. Or even like I've been using, I do, like now I just got this two rock amp, which sounds amazing. And I've been playing a Les Paul with P90s, which I was, I've always been a fender guy. I've never been Les Paul guy, but like I plug that Les Paul bridge pickup tone rolled down to like five volume rolled down just like one notch off just to take some of the bite off. Yeah. And I love that sound. So, you know, catch me again in a year and I might have a different answer right now. Right now, I'm like real bridge pickup with the tone rolled down. I was always, I liked the sort of fatter sound of a neck pickup and lately I've switched. Epic, favorite after show food. I'm really lucky these days, like I just get a protein shake and some overnight oats. Yeah. And that's really nice because like a fast way to get real fat on tour is pizza. That's always what I want to eat. And it's usually what's provided on tour. And so now I am, I'm a protein shake, maybe a banana after a show and that seems to do the trick. You've always been very responsible with that. Try to. So last one, what's your perfect day off? My perfect day off at home or on tour? Yeah. No, just at home. Like what's your ideal day when you're not? And it is, the fine thing is it is every day. And that is I wake up with Alejandra. We walk our dog who's elderly now. She's almost 15. So I, you know, I'm enjoying every moment with her. Some days we'll go like to a workout class together, Pilates or some days I'll just go to the gym. We have a long breakfast together. We watch love is blind or something stupid on TV. I'm glad you mentioned it. I mean, this is a great thing. Yeah. I love love love breakfast. So we have a multi-course breakfast. So like the first part will be the savory part. which will be some, I mean, dude, in Mexico, there's such great breakfast options. So sometimes it's chile keel. It's sometimes it's, he said he has with a neck on it, whatever Alejandra makes really cool food and, uh, so we'll do the savory part and then we'll come always yogurt with fruit and granola and honey and then a cup of coffee. So that is the first part of my day. Then I basically sit and play the guitar for a lot of hours. Alejandra goes and teaches and then she comes home and we just chill out at night. And I've been trying this year to read 10 pages of a book in the morning and 10 pages of a book at night. And dude, that's all I ever want to do. Like my perfect day honest to God is the day that I lead, which is like, you know, it's that walk in the dog, hang with my girlfriend playing guitar, doing some sort of exercise, getting outside, reading a book and that's it. I don't care about doing a lot of stuff. That's all I want to do. That's awesome, dude. And you're still into the cologne's and perfumes. I am into the cologne's and perfumes. I had to back off on my passion for them a little bit because there are a couple of co-workers. I have there a little bit sensitive to fragrances. And so I try and be respectful of other people's preferences. And I don't want to like, you know, have all my perfume stuff all open their business. But Jeff knows, I mean, like my other passion for a long time when COVID hit. And I was like, aren't we ever going to tour again? Was I started learning about perfumes? And man, I love them. I sell a huge perfume cabinet. But dude, I think last year and this is a slow year for me, I think I bought two bottles of perfume the whole year. There was a while where I was buying like one a month. Like it was so, yeah, yeah. So before we go, I have to share this. I don't care. Alex, I never talked about the cologne thing. I sent Alex a text and I said, dude, I need a new cologne. Like you got a cable in the hip-hop. [LAUGHTER] And so basically my wife read his response and-- [LAUGHTER] And made fun of Jeff for it. That's what she meant. That's all we got to say. Dude, thank you so much for joining me. And hey, oh, I didn't even record. No, just kidding. I did record. Yeah, man. Thank you, Alex, for spending a little bit of your day with me on my new podcast. It's new for me now. This is episode one. And for those of you that don't know, I have another podcast called The Green Room with Jeff Sabru and Bre Garnari. And that is a really fun one. Me and Bre talk about what it's like being a musician and the ins and outs around the show. A lot of comedy, a lot of laughs. It's very loose. Also, if you're enjoying this podcast, it's going to be released every Tuesday weekly. And you can find me at No Flakes Podcasts on Instagram. No Flakes Podcasts on YouTube. You can also hit me up directly, Jeff Sabru, on Instagram. And yeah, this is new for me. I've got quite a few in the can. I hope you all enjoyed. And I will talk to you all very, very soon.