In this podcast episode, the host welcomes musician Conrad Saul, who shares his journey from a music-loving childhood to navigating the music industry’s highs and lows. Conrad grew up in a family where music was central, with grandparents who were singers, and he began mimicking artists like Michael Jackson. His mother’s encouragement led him to dream big, and he developed a powerful, unique voice. After high school, he formed a duo called The Fretz with a friend, later expanding into a rock band. They faced numerous setbacks, including being ripped off for $50,000 and sleeping on couches, but Conrad’s blind faith kept him going. The band eventually signed with Universal Germany, toured with acts like Simple Plan and Avril Lavigne, and had a minor hit, but the label ran out of money. A pivotal moment came when Conrad co-wrote a song with Jamie Hartman that impressed Roc Nation, leading to a solo career opportunity. However, this meant leaving his bandmates behind—a difficult decision given their deep friendship and shared struggles. Conrad reflects on the importance of persistence, vulnerability, and learning from mistakes, emphasizing that success often requires tough choices and unwavering belief in oneself.
Ladies and gentlemen, massive guests today, episode five of the podcast, absolutely thrilled, grateful for your time. Welcome to the show, Conrad Saul. - Thanks, man. - Happy to be here. - Mate. - I'm really looking forward to digging deep, sharing your story and understanding a little bit more behind the curtain of the music industry. And also a life that has definitely, you know, had some major successes and I look forward to hearing about what got you there and the traits, the tendencies and just your outright dedication is something I admire. And not to mention, I'm a fan of your music. I think your voice is incredibly unique with a powerhouse range and I just can't wait to get into the nitty-ing-gritty and get into the mud and understand what an amazing life it's been and looking forward to it. So as you're probably already a massive fan of the podcast, I'm sure you've done the Hamish and Andy show. So you've done the warm-up now you're here for the main event. - The rabbit hole podcast. - Oh yeah, and we're matching. - We are. - It's a weird color to match as well, you know. It's like, I only have one shirt that's this color. And I chose to wear it today. And you chose to wear that, so. - I'll tell you what, I'll-- - It's a good start. We're in sync. - I knew we'd get along. I knew we'd be good friends. But what I wanted to get into was, like, as I'm sure you've already listened to all four podcasts already, you're a massive fan. But I like to start the podcast with how we got introduced to each other, how we met. And generally, why I like to do this is, I give the listeners and give the fans an understanding of how you can just naturally, authentically meet people through opportunities and through other means. Like, I understand that you've worked with Renee who was my previous guest on the podcast. And John, you share the same manager. But yeah, what brings you here today, mate? - Yeah, I mean, I haven't done many podcasts, to be honest. And I've just only recently, even watch started watching podcasts and stuff like that. And I just feel like someone said to me, I was doing something, this charity thing, and someone very politely said, "You're really good in an interview. You should do more podcasts." And I just had an even thought about it. And then, just straight away, like you said, John's who's been working with me for many years, as my tour manager, and he represents Renee, that was obviously in the show. And I've written a few songs for him, just sort of been helped guide his career a little bit, alongside John. And yeah, he obviously brought the rabbit hole up. And I said, "Yeah, I'm down to do it. I just feel like I'm at a point where I've now done enough living and have had enough experience and I can sort of share a little bit on the industry and the highs and lows and the mistakes I've made." And but also, you know, the good times as well. So, I guess I'm just here to share the story, I guess. Mate, no, we love that. And I mean, that's the whole meaning and the whole vision when I first started this show and this podcast was to be able to share people from all walks of life. Visions, rise, highs, lows, and everything in between and go, "What can we learn from this? What can we give back?" And being vulnerable is so important. But let's start off from the beginning, right? So, incredibly talented musician. And it seems like you were, you had it in the genes, right? Like you started at a pretty early age, taught me through what brought you and what linked you and inspired you to become a musician. I think, I mean, music was always in my family. My grandparents were singers. They used to like, you know, they toured with the BGs at one point and like, we're very much like in that sort of, more on local level, but like, you know, they were singers, right? So, it was already in there and then that, my mom didn't really get a voice like theirs or anything like that, but she can still hold a note, she can sing. But music was always in the house. And great music, you know. I grew up listening to a lot of Motown, a lot of, you know, a lot of Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Lauren Hill, and I, you know, I just fell in love with it. And I would start, you know, I started sort of mimicking people, I guess I'd come home, I'd be in the set, the mirror up. And I'd sing, you know, Michael Jackson, Ben in the mirror and sort of try and, you know, emulate his tone or whatever. And then, you know, I would slowly start to learn songs. And I think my mom was, I guess, really a big driving force in me taking that to, instead of just being like, okay, he loves to sing, you know, why don't you join a choir or something like that. She was like, he loves to sing. Let's look up the biggest producer in the world and email him at the age of like nine or 10. So, you know, that dream big thing was, you know, I would go to bed every night being like, praying to be the biggest star in the world one day. You know what I mean? And like, that was just, that always felt possible. And so, you know, you talk, you hear about it a lot now, like, what do you call it? Like positive affirmations and stuff like that. - Manifesting things. - I think that, I mean, I didn't know I was doing it at the time, but, you know, those prayers every night was essentially me manifesting what would later become, you know, a big part of my life. And, you know, it's, so that I really, I really, I had very supportive parents and that was, that continued all through high school. And obviously, I went through stages where, you know, I loved sport, I loved everything else. And it wasn't like, it was like music is the only thing for me, but it did become quite a lot of fun. It was the only thing for me, but it did become quite clear towards the end of high school that it was like, when I started gigging and that was when I, I feel like I really, like, cut my teeth as a performer and I started writing more music and it was just like, okay, I'm good at this. This is something that feels like I'm almost like, I always felt very confident walking into a room and grabbing a microphone that I could, didn't matter who was in the room, that I could, you know, impress them or whatever. And then that just, you know, that led to, you know, showcasing for labels and traveling the world and writing songs and eventually signing record at Deal and it just sent me on this wild ride, which was, you know, full of, you know, highs and lows and a lot of knockbacks, you know, like, you name it, you name the door, I walked into it, got slammed in my face. But at the same time, there was always something just like keeping me there. There was always something that was just like, you know, they'd say, you know, you're, you're, you're a great voice but you just like, don't have the songs yet or whatever. It was something that was always a little bit of hope and there were big people in the industry that were saying that. So I knew that I had something but I just, it wasn't quite, you know, cultivating to success yet. So, you know, I stuck in there while the rest of my friends were going to uni and, you know, or getting to trade and like stuff like that, I was, you know, broken sleeping on people's couches and definitely been like, you know, what am I doing? Like, is this, is this going to work out? But for some reason, I just had this blind faith that things would eventually work out. Like, so, you know, and that essentially did. But, you know, even then, like, now it still feels that there's this mountain in front of me that I'm trying to climb. I've still, you know, still, there's so many things that I want to achieve but that's the journey. And you know, that's sort of where I'm at. I can't wait to dig deeper into this and understand. But it sounds like from a very early age that you had planted the seed of positive manifestation and you knew that, and you had enough feedback as well from, you know, industry leaders to go, I've got something, it's just about keep growing. Keep growing away. And I mean, it goes without saying that you have such a unique, yet powerful voice. And I think there's a quote out there that says, he's got the powerhouse range, but he's got the spirit of like being out of seeing anywhere in the world. And it was like, it was a massive compliment. Like, and I was like, I couldn't agree more. Like, you've got such a powerful voice, but then also, I guess it's important that, you know, you're so down to earth and you've paid your dues, right? And I think talk to me a little bit more about that time where, you know, you hadn't had that, you know, the massive breakthrough yet. So let's talk more sort of like 2008 onwards. And go, all right, so you're grinding away, because I mean, it's almost like a, a right of passage. Like, it's very, it's very rare that a musician will, you know, release their first song and it will go, Arya number one or, you know, Windy Lerseyber Ward. So what did you learn through that period of the hard times and grinding it away? And I know you're in a band as well. Yeah. So talk to me a little bit more about how that went down. It's such a long, like, so put it this way. I graduated high school. Yeah. School is weak. I've hit up my friend Matt, his, John's brother. He was my friend actually in high school. We were in separate groups. And I was like, listen, I want to start playing shows around Brisbane. You know, I hear you're a guitarist. I'll send you some songs and learn them and then let's start playing some gigs. And he was like, yeah, I'm down. So I sent him a bunch of songs. He was like John Mayer songs, Craig David songs. Very much like, he was like, all I was listening to at the time. Anyway, it's school is weak. And I'm like, we meet up at the beach at Caval. And he's like, yeah, I learned those songs. And I'm like, well, you learn them already. I sent him to you like a day ago. Anyway, he was very keen, obviously. So we finished up that week and we got together next week and we started playing music together. And he wasn't like in my group at school. So it was weird for me. I didn't really like, not too many people knew why I did music at school. Like, to remember that I was really going to pursue it afterwards. Yep. And anyway, we really became best mates. And we started this duo called The Fretz. And we-- so I guess we sort of thought we could be like a bit of a savage garden vibe, right? Yep. [BLANK_AUDIO]
We started writing songs, started, we did a photo shoot together, and we booked our first gig, and it was like a showcase down here at West End, and all our family came, and we'd written a couple of songs, one song called Dreams, which we wrote about Mr. Button, dying on the OC. That was one of our mutual loves of our life. [laughter] First craft. But it was just like, once again, we were just like, we're going to be huge, you know what I mean? We're going to be a band, right? And eventually I actually tracked down a guy named Hayden Bell, who was Savage Gardens publisher, and worked with them in the early days, and the Veronica's, and he hit me up and was like, I hit him up and sent him some songs, he's like, listen, I don't think you have the songs, but I think you've got a very unique tone, and if we find the right songs, you know, maybe there's something there. So, I'm next thing you know, but at this point, you know, Indie Rock was really happening, and like, you know, bands like The Killers, Kings of Leon, The Coops, Arctic Monkeys, they were, that sort of came into my life, that start, start the music, and I sort of, you know, changed the way I dressed, that changed everything, like I just, I wanted to be in a band, like a rock band at that point, and we, you know, we were 18, we were drinking more than we've ever drunk, we were just reckless, like, having the time of our lives, and we just thought we were rock stars, and we were on this mission to become this massive rock band. So, pulled in at other three guys from high school, Pete Moe and Mitch, and we started traveling the world, writing songs, so we would, we paid for this demo to get made. Some guy ripped us off about 50 grand, which we got from getting credit cards and getting our parents to like, loan us money. All right. When that didn't work, I hate and said, well, if you put yourself on a plane to Sweden, I reckon I could get you about 30 songs in a month, just go into the studio every single day, every single day, write songs. So, me and Pete got, the, that point we were running out of money, so we, me and Pete went on a plane, and it was the middle of winter in Stockholm. We arrive, we know where to stay, so we stayed on this frozen river, on this boat, put our suitcases over the top of us, keep us warm. And, and the next day we, we started writing songs, we wrote a song a day for a month, and we came back with about 30 songs, and then that led us to the US, and Hayden's, there's a couple of songs I had written, and Hayden was like, I think we could probably showcase for a couple of labels, so we fight America, we're in, we're in Jimmy Ivean, we're in like, you know, the biggest A&Rs of in the world at the time, and me and Matt, me and Matt always had this chemistry, we could walk into a room with an acoustic guitar and, and impress everyone. Yep. Dynamic duo. Yeah, we're just like, there was a power with my voice in a room, but it wasn't really coming across on the, on the, see, on the music, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. And, um, yeah, I remember we were in New York, and we, there was, there's a guy named David Sonnenberg, who managed, managed the Black IPs, or managed the Black IPs at the time, and, and Lauren Hill, and like, you know, huge people, and we were in this, he's in this bigger, you know, building in New York, and we go to, go to his office, and at this point, every label in the US had sort of said no, and we walked into the room and he was on the phone, and we're like, you know, thinking we're here to showcase for him, and he's like, who, what are you doing here? We're like, Hayden sent us, and, um, and he's like, go on, go on, he gets back on the phone, and I'm like, just stop playing, I don't know, just stop playing. There were no, we've just stopped playing, and um, he's like, what you say your name was, we're like, we're the frets, and um, and he's like, come on, give me one minute, he's like, oh, and clicks up the phone, and he's like, tell everybody to come down here real quick, and he, anyway, all of a sudden about 10 people piled down into his office, and he's like, push the chairs back into the corner and, and, and do it again, and I was like, all right, just do it again, you know, thinking this is interesting. We start playing again, and he's like, you're pretty good, and I'm like, thank you, and he's like, why is it a band? And I'm like, oh, you know, it's me and him and best mates, we've got three other best mates, back in Australia, you know, we're, we're the real deal, David, like, and he's like, right, okay, he's like, well, you got to hell in my voice, and he's like, you know, maybe there's something we can do, and you know, send us on our merry way, and we left, and I got a call from Hayden, and he was like, fucking, David loves you, and he's like, he wants you to go to LA and work with this guy, Toby Gad, who had just written like, Beyonce, you know, for Beyonce, and Fergie, and all these big people, and so we were flying through to London, and we were showcasing for a bunch of UK labels, and then we had to find the money to get back to LA, which we were running out of my very quickly, and somehow we flew back, and we, my friend Vision, who's, you know, not with us, but he, he put us on his couch in for a few months, and the rest of the band flew wherever, and we had about five Aussie guys living in this man's house, and in LA, and that's when more matters happened, and we were, you know, we really tried to get signed over there, but it didn't happen, and the session with Toby didn't really go to plan, and David didn't want to take on the whole band, he said he would take me as a solo artist, but he didn't want to take the band, he didn't see it as a band. How did that make you feel? Because you there, you're there like basically your best mates, right? So how did that make you feel? Because it's like, you don't want to leave them behind, right? Yeah, it was essentially how to make a big decision to make, and Hayden was like, listen, he doesn't get it like that, and I said, well, you know, I said, at that point, we were so all in, and we'd spent, we'd all put in money, and it was our thing, and we really believed in that band, and we were best friends as well, so it wasn't like, you know, it was our life, everything. We would have full-blown fights over this, you know, over decisions that we would make as a band, like it meant everything to us. So I said, well, let's just hold out, and maybe we'll get a deal in Europe or something like that, like, you know, Todd David, thank you, but no thanks. So that was your decision moving forward, you were a lot more. Stick with the band and keep trying to make it happen, so we ended up getting a deal with Universal Germany, and we packed our bags, and five of us headed to live in Berlin for a year, where Universal Germany tried to turn five Australians into two German superstars, and we went on the road with a simple plan, and Avril Lavigne, and all these sort of punk bands, and we, I guess that was when we first, we had a song called Fire that I had written, and they believed it was a hit, and they put it out, I think when, like, top 20 or something, but it led to, like, our first touring experience, our first taste of, you know, real fans, you know, like, signing autographs after shows, and it just, it was an amazing time in our lives. I mean, we called ourselves the Kings of Oscroits, and we partied, like, absolute animals. It was just ridiculous, but we also, you know, would play shows every weekend, and it was just, like, the ultimate time that I still, like, I look back on it and just think, they have the fondest memories, so many laughs, and, um, but just ridiculousness. And essentially after that, the song didn't really work, and you could tell that the label was running out of money, and it was like, I was like, all right, well, I better go back to America and try and write us another hit, because I know that he's going to give us any money, if there's no songs. And at this point, the music industry really was driven by songs, you know, I mean, it was like, if you had a hit, it could change things, you know what I mean? Whereas now, it's like, 70,000 songs have come out a day, and it's like, it's a lot harder to get a hit these days, with the amount of music that's coming out. Just pure volume. Volume, and how much we're consuming it, do I mean? You know, we don't have the same, the radio isn't run the same. You know, there's not five songs being sent to radio. It's like, you know, you're lucky, you're very lucky, you're radio players, you're music these days, you know? So anyway, I flew back to LA, and that's when I, that came with me, the image came with me, and I wrote to start again, with Matt and collaborated with Jamie Hartman. And that song really changed things, because it was just, we went into the office with him, a guy named Jay Brown, who ran rock nation at the time, and he loved the song and wanted it for Kylie Minogue, and that just like sprang a bunch of doors open. But once again, it was a door that I felt, at that point, I knew I was the only one that was supposed to walk through that door in the sense of, this is the time for me to leave the band and go, you know, make, make it about me. Which was. Just a sliding doors moment. Yeah, which was, which was scary, because I know, I, I, I wasn't, I wasn't hiding behind the band, but it was just, I remember the first time I ever walked in and to a video shoot, and I saw my name up in lights, and even though it's something that I'd been chasing my whole life, it was like a real like, oh man, I don't know if I can do this, like, it's just, it's just gonna be about me, like, and it was, you know, because the boys, it was, it was like a family thing, you know, it was all of us, and like, even though I was the, the front man, it was like, you know, we were doing it together, and it was never, and it was a really weird thing to see my name, like, lit up in this video, on this like big budget video clip, I was like, shit, like, am I, do I want that, do I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. We'd obviously eventually like it, you know, and anyway, so start again, lead to, you know, Firestone with Cargo, and then, you know, Leo Cohen signed me to a label called 300, which is, Leo was a, you know, big mogul in the industries that had a, had a YouTube music, and Austin Rosen signed me to his management company called Electric Field, and who I'd met through my manager, Rod Carr at the time, and yeah, you know, it started to happen, you know, I was on, Leo made, made some huge moves for me, you know, from putting me on tour with Ed Sheeran to, you know, you know, you know, just throwing money at the project and just trying to convince everyone in the world that I had this voice that they all needed to hear. Absolutely, and I want to go back a little bit and backtrack because, what do you have for, yeah, go for it. What do you find was the big difference between touring with your best mates, and what sort of lessons did you learn, not just as a person,
but also as a musician along the way. Like did you find that when it was time, like you said, it was almost like a sliding doors moment for you to go, hang on, I'm ready now. And touring, I mean that story of sleeping with your suitcase on top of you in Stockholm is absolutely incredible. So I just feel like you almost had had the experience and you've got the runs on the board, so to speak, to go, yeah, I'm ready now for it to be me and me only. And take that journey as a solo artist. And how did that conversation go down? Were they happy for you? Was it tough? I'm sure it wasn't an easy conversation, but there were also your best mates. I'm sure they were really happy for you too. I mean, talk me through that. - Yeah, it wasn't like, it wasn't, I wasn't, even though I knew that that was the way it was going to happen, even the boys kind of did as well. I'm going to fly back with Matt and Mitch. And it was just like, at that point we'd been a band for so long, we tried everything, and we were no longer creating music that sounded like a band. And it sucked because after that first time when we went and we made a second album, which has never came out, and it's actually there's some great songs on it. But the dream would have been for the band to have worked out. I mean, it was never like, I would have preferred that than it just being about me. But there was a few songs, things were happening, and it was at a time where we were getting older. I was like 27 by this point, and I mean, Maui Adrama, and he'd sort of working at a restaurant again. It was like, only a few of the boys were still living wanting to do music at that point, and it was just like, okay, is this, it just kind of happened that way, and I knew that the guys would support it, and that they were going to go in, and even now, Matt still plays music, and he's in the industry still, and Mitch goes by the name of Haslet Now, doing really well all around the world. So everybody ended up doing their own things, and it worked out, and there was definitely no bad blood or anything like that. It was just like, we all kind of knew our time as a band was sort of coming to an end, and this was sort of like the next chapter of whatever music was going to be for us. So yeah, I guess to answer your question, it definitely, it wasn't like I had runs on the board, it was just the evolution of my life, and the journey that I was on. In fact, it feels like different parts of my career, 'cause the sun's a midnight stuff, and the threats felt like this amateur, amateur, but we were just so young, and just so like, like raw. Yeah, raw and just like just loving every moment of it, but like really clueless, and had no idea about the work that it probably took to get to the next level, and like, when we were in Germany, we would, you know, we would, raging alcohol, we should have been probably working a bit harder, drawing in like, but at the same time, that wasn't, we wanted to work hard, but there was like, wasn't enough happening, it wasn't like our career was just like going, and we were like, okay, ready guys, like, you know, but when it happened for me, and the second time around, it was a bit more like, I was on a plane every second day, I was doing all this stuff, and it was like a lot more pressure, a lot more money involved, bigger people involved, and it was like, success was starting to come, and it was like, okay, cool, this is, this could actually happen, and with that came its own, other challenges, drawing me, and like, I think that, at that point, I had, to be honest, I'd probably developed a bit of an addiction to alcohol, and the lifestyle and the escaping, I guess, or covering up whatever was going on inside of me that made me feel like I wasn't good enough or that I didn't deserve that, so I think there was a bit of self-sabotage going on, so I've got regrets around that, like, you know, I've had some amazing opportunities that I probably wasn't fully present for, or I could have done better, a better job at, because for some reason, I chose to have fun instead. - For sure, but that's the journey of life, right? And we learn, and that's why I said to you last time, - Other than that, under the weather, everybody, just if you notice, my voice is very croaky right now. There you go, there you go, it man sounds even better with the croaky voice. But I feel as if though, that's the journey of life, and we'll get to that album, and what it, how much it means to you, 'cause I know how much it means to you, and I guess you've got to almost live the life before you can learn the lessons from it, and I said this to a few people already, it's life's an interesting beast, where it's very hard to connect the dots moving forward, but looking back, you can, and you can look and go, well, this is what I was feeling at the time, and it leads to the decisions that we make. But I wanna get more into, so now that we've gone through and understood your, you know, sons of Midnight and touring the world, and really paying your dues, right? Whilst also enjoying that rock and roll lifestyle, and I'm sure you've got amazing memories from it, and you've probably got a bond with those guys that will last a lifetime, right? - For sure, yeah. - And even just living in Germany for a year in Berlin, would have been an amazing life experience too, just about life and lessons that you would have learned, and just different culture, right? And putting yourself out there takes a ton of courage as well, so hats off to you there. But once we got to the almost natural ending of that, and almost every party understanding that this is the way it's going, and there's nothing wrong or right about it, it's just no rhyme or reason, what, when was at that moment where you're like, okay, I am locked in, I'm not gonna probably drink as much, you did say in regards to, yeah, maybe, still enjoy the drink or take. (laughing) - But when did you realize, okay, this is an amazing opportunity, I've got people that truly believe in me, icons of the industry, when did you go, I'm gonna put my heart and soul into this, and have three points and not 12. - So to be honest, never, I always showed up when it came to singing. - Okay, I don't know, I've always put my heart and soul into it. - You can tell from the day one. - And that never changed. - No matter where the rate had 10 points or whatever, that's one thing that I, I mean maybe once or twice, I could have, you know, I think, but generally, I never disappointed in that element, it's just like you look back and you think, oh no, I wonder what would have happened if I really was, you know, just being the best I could put. - Just like dialed in. - Yeah, eight hours. But I guess, to answer your question, I mean, to be honest, in a sick way, it's like, and I think this is part of the regret or the, by the time it all started happening, because I'd been doing it for so long, and I'd had all these knockbacks and just, it felt like I'd been doing it for bloody 20 years plus, and now I'm finally, now somebody knows my name, or like now somebody's gonna give me an opportunity to get on stage in front of an arena, like there was a little bit of that, which I don't like to admit, and that sounds like ungrateful, but it was like, there was a little bit of like, I deserved it. - Yeah. - And maybe that was a bit of why I also felt like, I'll be right, I can go out and party till six in the morning, and like I'll still get up and perform in Good Morning America. Do you know what I mean? Like, because I mean, I think there was just a little bit like, yeah, it'll be right. I'm the shit I can do this, do you know what I mean? Like, there was a bit of an ego there, I think. And so, I didn't, like I said, I always showed up with, and saying my heart out, and I definitely did appreciate everything that was happening for me, and appreciate everyone that was doing, and still to this day, everyone that's ever been involved in my career, from Leaorta to Austin to Rod to hate into all these people. Like, I love all those people, and through the highs and lows of it all, they all changed my life. So, you know, I'm very grateful. But, you know, in life, sometimes when things start to happen, they happen so fast as well, that it's like, you don't even take it in. You don't, you know, you'll be in a arena in front of, you know, performing, you know, like with Ed Sheeran or some of that, and it just feels like you deserved it. Like, why wouldn't I be there? Do I mean like, it, and not to sound arrogant, but like, in a way that like, I'd been doing that since I was 15. Like, I'd been performing in front of people since I was 15. At this point, I'm 28, or something like that. Like, and it's, so, that's a long time of singing and trying to break into the industry. And so, when it finally all started to sort of come together, there was, it happened very, it happens quickly, like, you know, they say, you know, overnight success, but it takes 20 years kind of thing, right? Yeah. You were a 10-year overnight success. Yeah, exactly. So, by the time it starts to flow, it just feels like, oh, shit's working. Like, this was good. And you sort of take it in your stride, and you know, you'd be going from doing this amazing, into this amazing thing, and now you're on, I'm on stage at Coachella with Kago, and now I'm in a beef dinner, and now I'm, you know, my own song's gone number one in my country, and I'm flying home, and my friends are like, oh, no. Like, I'm all like, consign home, and like, that's party, and like, you know, you taste fame for the first time, and everyone's proud of you, but there's this, like, so there's this sense of like, oh, this is what was supposed to happen. I'm now, it's all coming to me. This is great. And I think where it should have been, where this is happening, amazing, now's the time to work. Put your head down, don't get caught up in there, in what's going on, and that's very hard, I think. And I think if you're not grounded, which I, I didn't have the best support network around me. I was living in America by myself, you know, I didn't have any family around me. I was, I was, so, you know, I would like to thank you for your time.
would be out most nights of the week, going out. I love people. I love to connect with people. I love to feel like love. And that's where I was. That was my connection. That was me going out to Bootsy Ballows or five in the morning was because I was probably lonely. For sure. So, yeah, unfortunately, yeah, I feel like, yeah, that's definitely-- I don't feel like there was a time where I put my head down and I was like, OK, now it's time to go. I think it was after that when things kind of went to shit a little bit. And I wasn't just going like this. It's sort of plateaued. I sort of had a bit of a check myself moment. And I was like, after a few things had happened, I was like, OK, maybe I need to rain an in a bit. And I did for a little bit. And things got better. But it's always been a bit of a struggle for me. I mean, like to tackle everything that was thrown out you too. And I want to deep dive into this con route as well is that when you almost had that sensation of like, I've earned this, I deserve it, and you fucking did, mate. Like, there's no ifs, buts, and maybes, right? You definitely did your time and the performances of the travel and the touring. And so when it did come time and you said, and I look forward to getting a bit more behind the curtain in regards to touring with the likes of Ed Sheeran, Coldplay, for instance, is only just recently as well. But I want to ask you, when you first got that success fame and with success and fame, obviously money comes as well. And you said something that really resonated with me just then is that you were over in LA, different country, obviously a 14-hour flight to Brisbane, your home, where I'm assuming your family are based. And to have that sort of fame, money success. And like you said, you're probably, you probably were lonely, fair enough to, right? I remember in my early Air Force days and going away from family and you're being your room. And you do ultimately feel a little bit lonely, right? So back to being in LA with some fame and success, are we talking this after the massive hit with Kaya Goat? Yeah, I mean, I had money for the first time in my life. So it's like up until that song came out really. Like I remember, I think I got $50,000 as my advance for my signing, which at the time was enough for me to get an apartment and move out of, just to get off my rods couch. Yeah. And I got this little place in Park of Braille, which is sort of like where everybody moves. When you move to LA, it's like the only place that will give you a place without like a rental history. Yeah. And I just had like one couch in it. We just skateboard in the room and like, smoking it and like just, you know, just, it was like a crackdown. But it was time and time and time. But it was fun. No, and then the royalty check started to come from, from Firestone and I started to, it just started, I know very quickly, money comes. And I didn't really have anyone to tell me that I didn't know that was going to happen. Like it was like, I remember the first time I ever got my first royalty check. I thought I was stealing from the bank. It was like, we pulled up me and Matt. This was, I thought, me and Matt was with the band, with the song that happened in Germany. And that got a bit of radio play, right? Yep. And I remember we were, we were broke. We were living on someone's couch and it was my, it was my birthday and we were at this ATM in, in Westwood, in LA. And I wanted to pull out, I wanted to see if my bank would go negative. So we could pull out like 200 bucks to go to Vegas. And anyway, pulled it out and I was like, wow, I went negative. And he goes, I pulled out 300 or something like that. And I was like, oh man, that really let me go negative today. This is crazy. And then he's like, try getting more. And I was like, darling again, get more. Like it just keeps coming. And he's like, just keep doing it, just keep doing it. And then some kind of camera's probably kept. And he keeps pulling out, might be pull out like 3 grand or something like that. And I'm like, ready for the Vegas trip. Yeah. I'm like, Vegas is going to be amazing. Anyway, we went home and I'm like, dude, we're going to get in trouble for this. We should just take it back or whatever that like. And then he's like, we're like, he was like, if you've even checked, like, like, if the money isn't your account, like why was there? And I'm like, I don't know. I was like, let's check anyway. We checked and sure enough, it was like, my first check I got from APRA, which was like, which page of your radio royalties. Yeah. And it was my money. It was the money from fire. It was like 8 grand and then I saw my that. It was like, the first check from radio. Yeah, wow. So it was great to know that we weren't stealing it anymore. But no one prepared for that. And then obviously that was a-- I was like, I can nod a hit in Germany. So when I finally started to see money from Firestone, which was like, you know, you get $100,000 checks, come through from publishing royalties. And on top of that is like, I did a song with Vee Chi for Coca-Cola and I got a bunch of big check for that. And like, so I had money for the first time to buy things and to pay for my friends. And that-- and, you know, I mean, I'm burnt so much cash, just like on stupid shit that I wish, even though I had business managers that were especially making sure I spent my money right. Investing in a couple of houses. Instead of putting up my nose. For sure. For sure. But so yeah, definitely-- yeah, you're definitely in those times. Like you said, and it's like some people are fortunate to have family around them at those moments when they start to-- when it starts to happen. Or they have great management and great teams with them that sort of say, like, hey, dude, this is going to come in the next six months. Where do you want to spend that money? Or what are you going to-- you know, you should do this. Maybe you should buy the house or whatever. And that's one thing I think I've learned. That's why I feel like I have so much to share with young people getting into this industry. Because I made a lot of mistakes from signing bad deals. Like I've said in some horrible deals, I know most people-- most artists do. It's almost like a ride of passage. You've got to sign a shit deal before you-- You've almost got to get shafted. Oh, you have to. Like the music industry is-- I mean, that's basic. The music industry is one of the worst music industries in the world for not being treated right. For sure. Like it's like, well, this guy's talented. Now we can fuck him. And every artist has been through it. So I'm not fucking saying like I'm the thing. But I do feel like I've made a lot of mistakes in those things and even like with money. So even now in this next chapter, I'm starting my own label and we've put out a lot of music through my own stuff. And I want to sign young artists and teach them how that they can own a piece of their music and not give it all away. And just not make the same mistakes as a lot of us make. Because I think when I grew up-- and when I-- like the industry was always on this pedestal to me. And like everybody that was in it seemed untouchable. And like when I'd meet a A&R or I'd meet a head of a record label, it was just like, oh, is this this little thing to them? Then like-- They were God. They were God. Yeah. And it was like, please make me famous. Do I mean? And it's like, you know, it's not-- like I can only, honestly, only say now that I don't give a fuck about those people. Because I've seen all those elements of the industry. And it's like-- and there's some good people in the industry as well. But it's just like when you're young and you want to get into this game, you sign anything because it's just like-- Oh, man. They believe in me. Like, wow. Yeah, cool. Like not even-- sometimes not even having a lawyer or someone-- even if someone wants to say, hey, man, that's a pretty shitty deal. I don't know if you should sign that. I'd probably be like, it's not that bad. You almost like taking advantage of, hey. It's 100%. 100%. I mean, it's happened, like I said. It's happened to everybody. But it doesn't make it right. And I think that artists and now obviously a lot smarter and we're a lot more aware of how much you can get taken advantage of. And how much you need them. You don't need the labels used to have so much power as well. They used to be over to-- they really used to be able to make people stars. And that's the difference. Now most of the labels don't even know what they're doing. They're signing these kids. But they don't know how to break you any more than you do. I mean, it's never been more on the artist to make it successful. And that takes a lot of work. I mean, so it's like, yeah, there's nobody now that's going to be like, all right, cool. Throw money at a project just to make it work. Gotcha. So the power dynamics change. And now, like you said, it's a lot more on the artist. And there's a lot more importance on them becoming-- investing in themselves. And there's not that big bucket of money that will be thrown at them. And just to the point where they just become-- Yes. Yeah. Essentially, it's just like-- yeah, I mean, that's the thing as well. So a lot of us don't get into it because we want to-- I don't want to be a social media person. I don't want to be-- there's so many things that you have to do now that literally are more important than making music. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? When that's the sole product. Yeah. And when marketing and social media comes into it, it's almost like the music gets lost in the-- Well, that's what it is now. So now, if you want to be one of the biggest artists in the world now, you have to, without a doubt, commit to looking incredible. So going to the gym, having you go on the day, eating in the calorie deficit, which some of us don't want to do. But I'm trying to. You could come with the Mrs. and I at 3AM. I'm trying to go to the gym, but it doesn't matter. As long as you're not-- if you're not doing everything right, if you're not being the best version of yourself, because that's what these people are doing. Like, they are-- it takes work. It's-- To be the biggest artist in the planet, it takes-- you've got to grind it out. You've got to be making all those sacrifices. And not everybody wants to sacrifice. And if you don't, then that's fine. Just go make music in your bedroom. And you don't let anybody hear it.
Or maybe you get lucky, maybe somebody does here and you have a moment and it works, but I generally believe that, and that's I think even now, like with, you know, I'm still, I struggle with that because I still wanna be the biggest artist in the world. But I know that with that takes a lot of sacrifice and sometimes that's hard. I mean, I mean, I get a family now, it's very hard for me to sometimes sacrifice that. And something inside me is still like pushing me to move in that direction and like give up some of those crutch, those things that, you know, I crutch on and really just dive into the deep end and just be like, I'm gonna go be smooth and just, you know, do everything I can to make this finally, like, globally massive. - Yep. - But I do, I definitely am now under no illusion that it's not gonna take absolutely everything that I have to make that happen. - And that's the, you said something that there was a bit of a light bulb moment just before, is that it's almost like the full package is more important than the actual vocals anymore, right? So you look at like, for instance, you've obviously got an incredible voice, right? There's no secrets, right? But do you feel as if, and this is probably just the way of the world now, it's looks so important, right? We're very judgmental of not just artists, but sports people, like you see, you see a sportsman come back from PC, from like Christmas holidays, right? And they're a little, if they're a little bit overweight, right, like that is screwed nice, especially now, if they're in RL. - Yeah, right. - But now that with musicians, it's interesting to hear that that's so important, that their physical appearance, whereas arm of the viewpoint that your voice is your voice, whether your 50 kilos overweight or you're shredded with an eight pack, that doesn't mean that your voice is any better or worse. - Yeah. - And that's kind of sad, don't you feel? - Well, I think it's a bit of both, right? So you got your Ed Sheerans and your personal owns and your people that were, your Darwin's, they first came out, that weren't stereotypically, - As these Britney Spears is, that we grew up with, and it was almost like part of the charm, and that was accepted and, you know, so you didn't have to look like, I guess, you know, there was a moment that it sort of happened, but I feel like it's also kind of coming full circle now again, where it's like, oh, now it is important again. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So I think that's just the industry. I mean, I think ultimately talent will always Trump looking good, but I think it's more about, I didn't even think it's about looks or anything like that. I think it's about just you being authentically yourself and being okay with everything. I think, like that's the main thing. I think the reason why Post is so successful and so amazing, 'cause he's authentically himself, and same with that, do you know what I mean? Like it's like they're both, they know what they do great and what, and they know how to put that into music, and people connect with it, and I think that's whether you're talking about them or you're talking about Janus Joplin or Hendrix or whoever, whoever, people from back in the day, it's the same shit. Like no one would care what Hendrix looked like. They would listen to the music and it was just like, fuck it, like it's undeniable. But I think it's just more when someone's broken and it doesn't matter how great their voices. Then that's I think, and not until you're fully like, you know, you get right within yourself. I think that's when the stars can align. - So true. I think authenticity is the number one selling point. You can tell when someone's being authentic. I think humans have a great sense of that guy's full of shit. But also that's what I think Ed and Post have done amazingly well is that they're authentically themselves. Postal smoke, 16 cigarettes on stage and not give a fuck. And there's something ironically, although it's not like healthy, and I'm not trying to advocate to smoke, but you almost respect his honesty and his authenticity and go for it. - Oh yeah, I mean, - Boat. - You know I'm gonna shit that guy and I must get a bit of smoke. I mean, when I first came out and I was smoking a thing, all the label was like, "Can't smoke on the cover, we can't smoke." Kind of picture of you smoking on the cover. It's like, "Why not?" - Yeah. - But I, so we took it off the cover. But that was sort of more in the pop, you know, like, and I think that's what I've said. That's what I respect about like guys like, because Post will be like, fuck off when smoking on the cover. Whereas I was a pussy and was like, "All right, whatever you say, label." - "Label's the God." - "Label's God here." But now, do you feel now that you're more empowered and now that you've got, I mean, Firestone is huge. - I'm still a people, please. So if I can probably, (laughs) - Firestone's huge and I wanna share this story with you and why I feel like this is full circle for me in a way is that I remember getting my driver's license, past my driver's license, and you know, once you pass in WA anyway, in Western Australia, you do a hazard perception test, and once you've passed that, you basically have got your license. You've done your driver's test, you've done six more months, and now I passed, there has a possession test, and the first song I put on, it was 2015, end of 2015, and it was Firestone, so there you go. - There we go, man, that's amazing. - Yeah, I love that story. I love that song's been, there's a part of so many people's lives, and that is such a big blessing that song, and it's so cool that it has a moment for you, man. I remember when I got my license as well, and so that first song you play in your car, when you get your license, is it, I mean, you talk about that for a while, you know what I mean? - I'll never forget it. - Well, the great trial was like, is it gonna be big pun? Is it gonna be biggie? Do I do two-pack? Like, I wanted to share that with you, 'cause that's the start of driving is such a, once you first get your license, it's the ultimate sensation of freedom, right? And I wanted to share that. If someone had told me eight years ago, or eight years after this, that you'll be having a podcast with Conrad, I would have told him that. - That's awesome, man. - Yeah, that's so cool. I love that, man. You know, that song, I mean, that song really changed my life in a sense of, and I didn't think it was, man. I remember listening to the first mix of that song in my car, and turned it off halfway through, I was like, yeah, whatever, another dance song. - You didn't think you were on tour with Winner? - No, no, really. - I didn't, that's interesting. - I didn't, that's how much it shows. I had no idea what was about to happen. Like, I was still, I was already signed, and we were more working on my own record, and like, I was so excited about what I was having with Leo and 300, and the guys that, that was just like a DJ thing that was like happening in the background. - So you thought that was almost just like, a little side hustle? - Yeah, just a side. - And I'd done a few of them, you know? - Yeah, I'd worked with a few DJs, and it was just like, yeah, these songs would come out, they wouldn't really do anything, and it was just like, it was cool to work in that world, but it wasn't my world, and I didn't really like, think it was gonna be anything that defined me, and then obviously, it wasn't until the song came out, and keep my spotify wasn't as popular as it was. - 2015, right? - Yeah, you know, not everybody was using spotify like they do now, but still, even with who was, it was still like a million streams a day or something like that, and it was like first few days, which was like a million, and then like a week, it was, and then it started to start. - Let's take it back a step. So how did you even get in contact with Kago? Was that through the label, the record label that was like, okay, Kago's doing some good stuff, let's use Conrad for vocals. Like how did that come about? - It came about through, so I was starting to go, my manager was Austin Rose and Roderick Kerr, and they Austin just sort of has his ear to the ground on a lot of whoever's hot and coming up and just would know like, - Singer on the beat. - Yeah, he just had his fingers on the personal, stuff like that. - Gotcha. - And I think Leo and Austin were trying to sign Kago, and so they flew to Norway, and I had written this song Firestone with my friend Tinas, and we had written it for, 'cause Swedish has mafia apparently wanted songs. So Leo always loved that song, and we was like, we're gonna give it to Steve Angelo, and we're gonna make it the World Cup song, and the people World Cup song, and when they were in Sweden, when they were in Norway trying to sign Kago, they realized that Kago had already signed to Sony, and they couldn't sign him, but they still met with his parents, and had a good chat and met Miles, his manager, and they played, I was signed to them, so they're like, oh, we got this kid Conrad, he's got this song Firestone, played him the demo Firestone. - So you wrote Firestone? - Yeah, wow, so you-- - We're my friend, we're the guy named Tinas, who's from Amsterdam, so we wrote that in Venice Beach. We wrote about five songs that week, and it was just part of a batch, it wasn't anything that was like, you know, just pitch 'em out to people, like whatever you know what I mean? It was like, dancing 'cause it had a Firestone title. - Yeah, of course. - And then, so yeah, the demo Firestone, I mean, I could play for you, it's like a string line. - So it pretty much sounds like this song, but without the drop. - Yeah, I'd love to hear that. - So yeah, absolutely. - I can do that after. - It's, you know, the lyrics in the melody and the chords were there. I think Kago tweaked the chords a little bit, and added the drop, which obviously brought the song to life as well. But the song was definitely written. And anyway, they called and he was like, yeah, they love it, they're gonna make it the first single. And then I was, and I sort of showed a bit more interest, 'cause I was like, well, who is this Kago guy? And like, is this Kago kid from the world? - He hadn't never put out a song, he'd only done like remixes of other people's songs, right? But the remixes that he was putting out on SoundCloud were getting like millions of streams. So like, I guess all the label was like, fuck, if he puts out a song that's his own, it's gonna work. - It's gonna blow up. - Yeah. - And then it did. And then I remember like, it came out. And then I was supposed to fly home to Australia for Christmas. And instead, they're like, this team called and like, can you get in a plane to Norway? He's playing, you know, at a arena here. Like, it's gonna be massive. And we want to like, want you to play the song. And I flew to Norway, got up, sang the song with him for the first time and, you know, the whole arena knew the song. And like, it was like, fuck, what is this thing? - I'm getting goosebumps. - Was that a pretty cool song? - Yeah, it was. - I got home to Australia for that Christmas and first thing I hear on the radio, firestone, second thing I hear, start again. Like, it was like, oh shit, it's happening. Especially here, 'cause my music was happening at the same time. - Yeah, cool. - It really felt like the stars were aligning. And it was an amazing, amazing time. And like,
It was really special and that song, like I said, it changed my life and very, very grateful. And I can look at it like that now. Even though there's highs and lows that came with that journey as well. And I mean, of course. And how you deal with fame, and we'll get to that, don't get me wrong. But I want to sort of snap in a little bit as well in regards to what sort of relationship with Kai go and to have that journey together of, you know, 'cause he was his first single, yeah. - Yeah. - So he was his first single. So he must have a bit of nostalgia. Is he pretty grateful for everything there? - I don't know. - I don't know. I don't know. I feel like-- - We'll get him on next episode now. - It's very, it was a hard time because the song, you know, once the song was successful, I think the labels both were like, okay, cool. You know, there was some pretty fucked up shit happen as well. Like, I mean, we flew to Miami to shoot the video. And we rented the house from like, "Babboys 2" and all the teams were there. And it was like gonna be this tropical video. And it was like, you know, obviously, I'm not in the video, you know? So that day, for some reason, Kaga's manager decided to shut down production on the video and, you know, him and Leo went head to head. And we left and they we packed up and they decided to go in a different direction with the video and I wasn't in it. But ultimately, you can see why they wouldn't do that because if I'm in the video, then everybody's gonna think, "I'm Kaga, aren't they?" - Yeah, of course, of course. - So there's a lot more to it. Like, would you say that, would you still, like, have a working relationship with him now? - Yeah, we're boys, I mean, - Yeah, we're boys. - I'm just saying, like, two little things like that happen. So certainly, and then I was obviously, I've supported this song for a long time. I trawled the world with Kaga, where you're on that train to make the song successful. But at some point, you have to pivot off that train and focus on your own stuff. Otherwise, you're just a guy that sings Firestone, right? - Of course, of course. - But that song became so big and my stuff was working here and the US label was trying to make it work in America for my stuff. So I got like the on the verge, I had some plane on the jingle boards, I'm on Jimmy Fallon singing my songs. - Yep. - And, you know, the goal was to like, do what Sam Smith did with disclosure and sort of like pivot off and then have my own soulful gospel album come from it. But there were so many opportunities and, you know, Kaga's manager's a smart guy at kid and like, you know, he's got a way with words and he called me and be like, "Come on man, we got this jet, we got the fucking plane mug." 'Cause I can burn his house. Whatever it is, whatever the fucking deal was this weekend. And like, you know, it's hard to say notice some of those opportunities. Most of the time, we're not even getting paid and it's like, eventually, I started to get a little bit bitter but like just like, yeah, fuck, like, why am I still doing this? And I wasn't getting paid for it and like, it got to the point where I was like, "Well, you guys are doing a really good fuck, do you know what I mean?" - Yeah. - You know, like, you're taking the piss. So, I kind of got off the train, haven't really gone back since, but, you know, I'll go on, go on, do things here and there. Like, I still, I love Kaga and we'll always be, we home, he's a, I, he's Google Man. - He's Google Man. - Yeah, he's a good, of course, a good man. - Yeah, and ultimately, he's business. And like I said, his team was protecting his brand and they were doing what was best for him at the time. And, you know, I'm not, you know, then I'm supposed to look after me and-- - Of course, of course. - But, you know, it's just, you know, I think, essentially, I just didn't want to be, it was hard. 'Cause, you know, you get on, you get on, you get on, you sing a song with a DJ and you walk off stage and everybody takes pictures of the DJ and I could be the fucking janitor, walking back to the dressing room for all day. - They know, yeah. And that's something I want to get into, actually. It's funny you bring that up because it's, you look at Firestone and how big it is and in your own right, I mean, now you've got like, you know, 4.4 million monthly, you know, subscribe, like listeners on Spotify, which is incredible, massive. But with Firestone, it was a bit of a, it was like an interesting one, right? 'Cause you're the vocals, but because, like, from a visual point of view, you're not even in the, you know, even in the music video, for instance. So, for all, you know, unless they're a true fan, they don't even know who the fuck you are. - Yeah, exactly. - Which is crazy. So that's a unique position that not a lot of artists have been in. - Yeah. - So, - Don't worry, it didn't, yeah. - Of course, a chip of my self. (laughing) - No, I think that's the same, but you know what? That's fucking my fault for not having the team to protect me and make sure that like, that's why I like, I don't really think that it's the best way to break an artist, like being on a big DJ dance song because for that reason, it's exactly. Unless you have a team around you and the other team isn't, you know, saying no. - Yeah. - Around you that's smart enough to be like, no, he's got to be in the video and it has to be him featuring so and so and it's got to be equal amounts of love and respect on that thing because it's, it's here, I mean, how the fuck can I write the song? - Like, it's your fucking song. - You wrote it and it's your vocal. So if anything, do you feel as if you almost needed a team that was stronger, willed to go, all right, look, we respect what kind of song is done with the track. That's fucking awesome. Great. - Yeah. - It's, but also Conrad Roder and Conrad, it's Conrad's vocals. So ultimately, he's gonna be in the fucking music video whether you like it or not. - That's probably what you could have done. - That's what should have fucking happened. - Yeah, yeah. - And, but, you know, Kago's manager is relentless and has, you know, pretty big reputation in the industry for being over the fuck, like for saying some fucking crazy shit and shutting down things like, like, like this kid's got balls on him and, and, you know, - You're gonna respect that almost, right? - I do, I do, you know, I mean, as much as sometimes it didn't work out for me and my favor, but he definitely, like, his is one kid that, like, I mean, this kid went up against Leo Con, he's fucking 19, and he's like, Leo's a gangster, bro, you know, and no 19 year old kid's coming up and being like, the fucking video is all over, dude. And it's like, - Fuck fair play. - He's like, I'm gonna pull out a gun, like this is insane, but, you know, - Not gonna mention you're on the scene of Bad Boys, too, to be my am. (laughing) - Exactly. - You should've showed up, gangsta. Like, we went to Joe's Crab's afterwards, 'cause I was upset. But yeah, it was, so, dude, like I said, like I look at that whole chapter in my life now as crazy, so many good times, met so many amazing people and had so many amazing experiences, and I'm grateful to Kago and his team, and to everybody that was involved into making that song a success, and especially, obviously, to the fans that took that song and made it what it is. But, you know, it's just a part of my story, and like, I'm looking forward to the next chapter, and, you know, it's like, it's just, that's just one chapter, I feel. - That's it, and that's it. It's cool that you can look at it back. - A big fucking chapter that everybody talks about. - I thought I was gonna sing it everybody's weddings, but, yeah, well, speaking about that, (laughing) the girlfriend's pretty keen for you to have, have you had the wedding anyway, so. - I can do, isn't it? - We'll dial that in, mate. We'll dial that in now, we're best mates, and we'll wear matching green suits. - Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea, actually. I might have to sell it to her, but we can do that. - Even the watch is green, so, I'm a board in. - We've all bought in today. So, moving on from Firestone, it gave you a lot of exposure, interestingly enough, probably not visually. So, like, you know, you're not on the music video. Now, I wanna talk more about your album, and your unique, not only, this is one thing I really wanna, like, hit home with the audience as well, is that, yes, you're a fucking amazing vocalist, right? No one's ever denying that, but I feel like what goes really unseen is how good of a songwriter you are. - Oh, thank you, bro. - No, thank you so much. - Seriously, I feel as if that, no one, no one, like, I mean, I'm short within the industry they do, but I feel like, you know, people like myself who love music, but I don't have their toes, or their feet dipped in, or have a look behind the curtain, so to speak. Your songwriting, some of the songs that you have written, and I mean, I'm a bit provy because I know that you've worked with Renee, who's a good friend of mine, but it's actually incredible, and it blew me away, like, so, I wanna hear your recollection of, all right, yes, I can sing. Yes, I've got an amazing voice, but where did you realize, fuck, I can write music too. - Yeah, it's interesting. Dude, to be honest, pretty early on, like, I remember writing something, me and my brother used to write songs, and we were like, seven and eight, you know what I mean? I remember writing a song for my little sister about her kindie, like, cool kindie-seed. Like, I was, I was always writing little jingles, and then when we thought we were cool, when we were nine and ten, we were, you know, wearing our sunglasses, we'd be writing songs, like, just terrible songs, but like, that sounded R&B that we thought were good, so, but it was, we liked writing songs, you know, we'd sit in our study and, you know, it was in the 90s, so you'd have MSN up, and lime wire, and we'd be writing songs together, you know what I mean? - What I'm trying to write, yeah. - And then, but it was, songwriting was a shoes thing for me, because early on, I realized that songs were gonna be the thing that got us a record deal. Songs like, when I met Hayden, it was like, very obvious that like, if we write great songs, like, it's not, it wasn't about the voice. It was about the voice, but I learned, and I got taught very early on, that you could have a fucking amazing voice, but if you ain't got a hit song, you ain't got nothing. Or if you can't write, then you're just another voice. But if you have, if you can write, you have power, because if I write a great song, you know, like a Firestone, and it's my song, I write it, I get to choose where it goes, I mean, I get to choose that my voice stays on it, I get to choose all these things, so it gives you power. I walk into a record label, I play three songs, they're both three smashes. That record label's getting the checkbook out straightaway. If I walk in and I can sing like a wreath Franklin, but I don't have any songs, it's like, oh, we've gotta find him songs, you know, they gotta do some work, then. That's why, like, songwriting was half the battle, and I realized, I knew that at 17, so like, I like that UI-dentified that early. That's pretty special that you identified that early, and you had your finger on the pulse go, songs is where the songwriting and songs itself is the currency of the music industry. - Yeah, it was, and I think Hayden taught me that as well, and it was like, like he said to me on that phone call, he said, you know, I think you've got a great unique voice, but you don't have any songs, and that was, there we go, there's one.
and just slap in the face right there. It's like, okay, cool. I knew that that was, so what you're saying is that if I get some songs, then we're good. And he's like, yeah, 'cause then you've got everything. - Exactly. - So when I went to Sweden and I started, I learned and I studied how to write like pop songs. I would say, I remember writing that month. I wrote every a song a day for a month. I remember one day we'd been in the studio for like 20 days straight, me and Pete. And I remember, I just couldn't come up with anything. And I remember coming out and I was in tears. I was like, fuck man, we're done. We're done. Like, don't mean like, yeah, if you didn't write something today. Like I was so upset that I hadn't written a song that day, which is so stupid of me. But that just shows how much pressure I was putting on myself to deliver these songs. But I think I learned, and I still, some ways are funny thing because you can doubt yourself as a songwriter as well. You can have a lot of insecurity around that. Like even today, even right now, even though I've had success with songs. I'll be in the studio. I'll go to the studio after this, and I'll write a song. And it makes sound great to-- - Everybody else in the room. - For our wedding, yeah. - Yeah, it's my-- - My girlfriend and I is wedding. - There you go. - There you go. - There you go. - But in the back of my head, I'd be like, hey, is it any good? Like, there's never-- You don't know until the world has embraced the song, whether or not it's good or not. So there's days where I'll just be like, man, I suck at songwriting. And then there's days where I'm like, pretty good sometimes. And you'll have days where you suck. And you don't come up with anything. And then you'll have days where everything is just like flowing through you like, I can water. And it's just like, I know I got the next line already. Like, you know what I mean? And that, that is when you fall in love with songwriting. And then that's when it all means way more. And that's what happened to me is that I love singing. I love performing. But when I write a great song, and I'm on in the room like that, and that magic happens. I don't know what that is. Like, God comes into the room and just dump something on you. And it just pours out of you. It's like, it's the best feeling in the world. And it's like, it makes everything feel like-- it's like we're here for a bigger reason. Like, that I'm doing this for a bigger reason. Or like, it's just like a spiritual thing. And I love the fact that you could walk into a studio and write a song and walk into your bedroom and write a song. And that can change your life. Like, what other job can you go to work in and be like, potentially by five o'clock, I could have created something that will change my life forever. And change a lot of other people's lives. And that's one of the coolest things about being a songwriter and being an artist that, you know, I often remind, trying to remind myself of that on days where the industry is kicking me down or-- You know, like the shit's getting to you. That's a pretty fucking cool job I got and did, and I'm very grateful for that. That's epic. And you can have a positive impact on those that interact with your music must be an incredibly special feeling, right? Oh, yeah. And that's what it means. Through that comes playing shows. And you have people come up to you and obviously-- Interact. --that's affected their lives. And like, this song saved my life. And this song got me through my break up or got me through my parents passing away. Or like, well, it's so many big moments. And then it's like, you know, something you created is a part of other people's lives in a positive way. And so it's just a very special thing. You can't put a check on that, can you? You can't put a pass on that. You really can't. You really can't. That must bring you so much solitude and so much gratefulness. And I mean, performing-- and I really want to get into as well-- the energy that you feel when you are performing in a stadium. I mean, I know you recently just perform with Coldplay, right? Like, these opportunities that have come your way. And I know you're so grateful now looking back. And we will get onto the album life. And I personally think from a fans' point of view and a perspective, I think that album is absolutely gangbusters. I think it's unreal. And there's a few songs in that album that I can-- can I-- that I think-- I mean, start again. I know you made it in 2015, but it's still part of the album life. Yeah. But I think changing is incredible. I think changing probably highlights your vocal range and your vocal skills, like, incredibly. I think changing-- I think changing-- I was actually listening to it on the way here. And I was like, fuck me. That does you-- it does your voice to service. Yeah, thank you. I love that song. I love performing it live. And it's definitely a crowd-favorite favorite as well. Yeah, I'm sure it is. I always believed in that song. I remember I wrote that with the same crew I wrote to start again with. Yeah. And I just remember just feeling-- some days you have some time to know. But that's the song that I did. I knew that was that. And it wasn't in become the biggest hit in the world. I don't know that. But I knew it was a good-- I knew it was a great song. It will now that we've mentioned on the Raba Holborn cast. So it's going to blow the fuck up. It will-- it will manifest it. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, no. It's definitely one of my fears. That's epic. And so back to touring, right? So you've toured with the likes of Ed Sheeran, Coldplay. Who else is? Maro V, the scripts, Underday, Jess Glyn. Yeah, did a few big US tours, a few big UK tours, and then obviously some big ones in Australia and my own stuff as well, which was great. And did all the jingle balls in America, which was amazing, because that's like a Christmas show in the US right. So-- Yeah, wow. --but it's in a rena tour around the country. And it would be like-- on the one night, it would be like Fleetwood Back the weekend. Selena Gomez, one direction. And then for some reason, I got this thing called it on the Verge artist, which is like a guaranteed radio play from Ryan Seacrest. And you get to be on all the jingle balls. So it's hilarious. I'm like, nobody knows who the fuck I am. And the bill is like the weekend. Fleetwood Back, Justin Bieber. And then it's like, come to our tour. It was when I was first like, you know, start again and firestone was having-- so Firestone was kind of becoming a hit. Yeah, of course. And so Firestone opened doors like that. It's cool to hear that Firestone gave you opportunities, which you just mentioned to be on Jingle Boys. Right. And go, yeah, wow. Now I've got this door open for me to be with the likes of-- Well, no, it didn't. Start again. My voice and start again got me a jingle thing. It was just-- it was nice that by the time I got to that the Jingle Ball, I had at least one hit to play. Someone actually-- I didn't want to get out there. Nobody knew any of the songs I was singing. But yeah, unfortunately, the song that we had taken in a radio at home, me up, was not a hit. It didn't work on US radio. So that was the song that Ryan was plugging and trying to get going. But it just didn't connect. And to put it-- to put it-- for example, like Sean Mendes was the other Verge artist. But he had stitches, of course. Camilla Covello was the other Verge artist, but she had Havana. So they were pumping. We didn't have a hit. But we had a hit, but they weren't fucking playing it. They weren't ready. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You fucking had the hit a lot. So what did you learn from, let's say, specific artists? And I know you've traveled with-- I mean, that list speaks for itself. Who would you say had the biggest impact? And what's the interaction, too, like, with Ed? Let's use Ed's here, for example. Right? You're touring with him. Is he-- are you in the same room with each other? A little bit discussing the show. I know it's separate shows, but you're discussing each other's lives. How close do you actually get to the-- let's say the main performance or the main act or the main artist so to speak. I think it's a case by case thing. Usually not very close. Yeah. But luckily for me, with Ed, I did get close to him, because I guess Leo knew his manager. And just Ed as a guy, as obviously just lovely guy. And he came in and welcomed me to the tour. And then we're hanging out. We're for beers afterwards. We're at the casino together. We just-- he embraced me while he was in this country. And it was very good to me. And so it was lovely to-- I was also having some success at the time as well. So I wasn't just this shitty little support act. So he definitely was lovely to me. And we had some great times. And he'd present to me with my Aria when I went on song of the year. And like some really cool-- we went on the same label as well, which helped-- What label was that? Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers, yeah. Thorso. So I got-- so that was great to have a relationship with him. But a lot of the times, like, yeah, you don't get too close. Unfortunately, like, I didn't-- I didn't-- my own five. I didn't really get to-- I hung with the band, but I didn't really see much about him, Levine. And a lot of the time-- especially when they're arena and stadium acts, it's like these guys have got a lot of pressure on themselves. And they're all often just like-- touring is full on, man. And as much as I'd like to think I-- and because I have had so many of these experiences where I'm the support actor, I definitely try and treat anybody who opens for me with the utmost respect and just bring them into the family and make them feel like I share my green room with them. And there's no separate room. It's all one big family. You can use my crew. You can use my gear, whatever you want. Because I remember Leo at one point-- I was with my own five, and Adam hadn't even set a load of me. And we played eight shows together on some of that. I was just like, this sucks. Around the US. This was here in Australia. And fire out. And he-- and I remember saying to Leo, Leo heard about it throughout our age. We had the same age. And he was like, man, fuck that guy. He was like, man, I remember. He was Rundee MC's tour manager. And he was like, I remember when we were on tour with Rundee MC, and we will open in for you too.
And in Bono left us a note saying, you know, with his number and abolish campaign and he's like, you remember that? Remember how this feels to be the support actor, you know, but a lot. And like, you know, so I definitely took that with me and was just like, okay, well I'm not sure I'll always look after the little man because you may see them on the way down. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, so I mean, obviously you learn a lot and like it's an amazing experience and you know, there's nothing better like Coldplay last of way. You could like playing that stadium. I fuck man, I love singing in stadium so much. It's just like, it's fucking wish I would like that. It's very hard to go from a stadium back to a little club room. There's something beautiful about playing in clubs though as well because like I can fucking see everyone. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's awesome. But the way you voice can carry in a stadium, it's just like I get, I just love it. So I hope to one day end up in a stadium where I'm just like, you know, the set up that Coldplay had last week was just insane. It's just like such a well oiled machine. Like, it's fucking like a village underneath that stage, you know what I mean? They've done it once or twice and they've been pretty successful. Yes. I just think that's an awesome thing to talk about and really highlight is that how important it is to give back, right? So you've been in both positions or and also by learning going, all right, Alan Levine probably wasn't fair to say wasn't the most welcoming or inclusive right. But then you go edge here and then go, Ed was incredible, had beers with him afterwards and he made you feel as if you're a part of, you know, you're a part of the family. It's cool that you've learned from that and gone, okay, I'm going to be like Ed. Yeah. You know, versus Adam, like, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, I don't mean to say anything. No, no, no, it's true. Yeah. Hey, that's what we're all about. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you get on the podcast. Yeah, 100% man. I mean, I think like I said, I'm like, but I. I'm sure I've been addicted to some people before that without even realizing it. I'm like, because you're just, that's what I'm saying. So like, I didn't hold a grudge about against anyone because you don't ever know what anybody's going through. You don't know how much pressure they're under. Like when I'm, when I've got a lot of pressure on me and I've been seeing it back to back shows, I didn't talk to anybody. Like I'm trying to save my voice. Of course. Am I, am I a fact head? No. Like it's just because I'm thinking about the job I've got to do, which is entertain these thousands of people that have come out to see me sing. Yeah, and pay the hardwood money. Yeah, and that means more to me than anything. And I'm a people pleaser. So it's like, the last thing I want to do is sit in a room with somebody and not answer your question or not be friendly to you. Or like make you like me. It's, that's the way I'm fucking built. Yeah. I can keep insecurities. But, so, but I tell you what, if I got to sing that night, I'm not talking to you because I'm like, my wife fucking hates it. Like, you know what it is. She'd be like, hmm, you doing the non-talking thing again? Yeah. And I'm like, yeah. But like I said, it comes from a good place, right? You want to entertain and you want to give the fans what they want. And they've, like we said, they've, they've spent their hard earned money to come see you sing and do what you do best. So I can appreciate where that's coming from. And you're right. Like maybe Adam just yet wanted to save his voice. And to that, like that's, that's to me is like the, back to what I said, I'm like, I said before about where I was at when everything started to happen and how I just expected it. Because I was like that then. Now, even if we're playing like a regional show in Australia, like in, I'm fucking nowhere. And there's 300 people in the room. I'm so grateful for that. Because I've had big things. I've lost opportunities. And I still have this fan base of these people that will come out and watch me sing and pay their hard earned money to watch me. And I have a career still. And by the grace of God. And I'm, so that taught me that. Maybe I had to go through that and have that bit of an ego death or whatever to be over to be grateful for the smallest things now. Like now it's just like, I used to think that I just deserved everything. I was just like, why, of course I'm fucking on Jimmy Fallon. Well, I wouldn't be. I mean, like, but now it's like, you know, if I get it, if I'm on a TV show, it's like, it's like, yeah, we're on a TV show today. This is awesome. I just, I think that gratitude wasn't there for some reason. And maybe it was because I was young and I wasn't, you know, I was just taking it in my stride. But it's definitely there now, which is I think is, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we kind of change what we've done in the past, but we can change what we do tomorrow. We can learn from what we've done right. And that's the key element moving forward is that you were able to identify and be self aware enough to go, hang on. I want to be present in the moment now. And whether or not it's performing in Sydney, you know, with Coldplay versus, you know, some regional town in North Queensland. Bumpfuck nowhere. Bumpfuck nowhere. You know, with 300 people, it makes no difference. And that's pretty cool. That's a great lesson moving forward. That's true, man. Yeah. That's epic. And to hear some of the stories that and their caliber of artists that you've been able to tour with is unreal. What I wanted to move on to next, Con, is what is the single most important thing to you now that you've had all this success. You've learned a lot and you've got a beautiful young family, you know, young, both under three. Yep. Three in March and Faith is one next week. Memphis and Faith, yeah. Beautiful names. You've done well. You and Jasmine? Jasmine, yes. Have done incredibly well. Very, very, very lucky man and, yeah, beautiful. The kids are just, kids change everything, man. Like, even though you don't, you can never prepare yourself for it and like, I was not ready for it. And I was still very much in my selfish artist mind. But it's so crazy how this love just, I don't know if it happens straight away. I think for men sometimes it takes a minute to really understand these are my kids. I think obviously with the woman that they carry the baby so maybe they're a bit more in touch with everything. For sure. But for me, I don't get wrong. It was love at first sight. But it was the love now, like three years in with my son and with my daughter. It's just, it's out of this world, do I mean? It's such a crazy feeling that you can not even explain. And you know, it's just so grateful that that's, that not everyone gets experienced that in life, do I mean? And like, I'm just so grateful that, you know, I got that without even, you know, chase that being on my, I wasn't like, I was just like, you know, just always wanting to, I did actually always want kids, but I just never really thought it was going to happen. Yeah, of course. Because it's just too focused on like, rear and stuff of that. The fact that now I've got that as well. And it just that really puts a lot into perspective, especially when you, when I have been chasing this dream my whole life, realizing that, you know, of course, that means a lot. My career means that like a lot to me and still does. But I could honestly say the only, they're the only things that have ever happened to me in my life that have made me realize that it's not the, you know, be on end or for sure. So it's, it's helped ground you. Yeah, it just, it just puts everything into perspective. It's just like, yes, this is my dream. And this is my nor star of what I want in my life and what I think it my purpose is or whatever. But that is what life is about, like family and, and, you know, because when you're, when you're traveling the world and you're trying to make these things happen, you know, you do put friends like your family and stuff like, you know, it's not, it wasn't always the my priority. You know, I mean, my priority was just go, go, go make it, make it, make it. Like be as successful as you can. Like, you know, that was the priority. And, and now family is the priority, you know, obviously you got to make money to provide for that family, which is why we still do it to an extent. But, uh, but yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely changed things. And that's epic. And like even just like the last week you spent down on the goal coach, it looked like an amazing time spent with family. Uh, do you find that now that you've got two beautiful kids, a lovely wife, a do you go far out? I'm able to be present and go, this is something that I'm so grateful for, but then also at the same time inspire you to become the best version of yourself moving forward. Yes. Yes. Uh, I think I am still 100% of working progress. Uh, like it, I, I still struggle with everything I struggled with 10 years ago. Unfortunately, I haven't figured it all out. I'm not at this point where I come full circle and I'm now this Zen motherfucker that just has it all, all, all sorted. I think I am closer to having it sorted because of them and because I have had the, um, fortunate to have this beautiful family that supports me and, you know, these kids that love me and it, and it definitely, everything is now mean so much more. So yeah, you do want to be the best version of yourself. I do want to sort my shit out because I want to be able to provide for my family and, and give them everything that, you know, they've, uh, they've, uh, dreamed of. So it definitely makes, it's just sort of like the, the chip stack up a bit more, you know what I mean? Um, but I think it's all part of what I'm, what I'm here to do, you know, I mean, like I think the fact that I do struggle with, with some of these things and, you know, I talk, I've talked about it in the past, you know, with addiction and, and, and just in general of not, this not feeling good enough and this people pleasing shit that, that has, that has followed me my whole life, that, um, you know, I, I think part of it is, um, I think
of what that needs to be in my music and the message, it's part of the message as well. I mean, I often now weave it with my songwriting. It's like, I only really want to write stuff now that that is related to the things that I really deeply feel and the things that bother me and the things that I don't feel comfortable with. And when I hear a lyric that's like, oh wow, that's that's that's that's that's that like, you know, whatever that may be, you know. I heard someone say like sidetracked or some of that today. It was like, it was like drinking just sidetracked you from where you're supposed to be or some of that. And like just sidetracked was like, that's a great title for a song or like, so any little like, things like that make me now inspire me to write music. Like, whereas before I used to be like, you know, like about some chick or some of that. And you know, to me that's not as it, it doesn't feel as good to write about that anymore because well, one, I mean, I've only got one chick. But like, for sure. I just want to write real deep shit that makes people feel things because when I hear that, I think it makes me think. And I think that's part of, you know, why I've maybe been through some of the shit I've been through and why I'm still trying to figure it out because I think I've got to talk about it and share my story and hopefully inspire others and help others and however I can't. - No, that's incredible. I feel like your ability to use music as almost a, almost like a poor toll to people, to feel and inspire and help them battle their addictions is a credit to yourself made. That's, I mean, there's not much more I can really say about that. It's not only a huge inspiration, but it also probably means that you're being more authentic to yourself and by you being more authentic to yourself, you're able to write these amazing songs that will help change people's lives for the better. So that's got to give you the most, that's got to give you so much. Yeah, power and it's got to make you feel so good to be able to give back, to give back. I mean, ultimately, you being your authentic self, you don't know it yet, but you're going to inspire and you're going to help people with just, which I think that's all you can do. If we can choose, it feels good to be, you know, just be yourself, I think, for sure. That's the best lesson that anybody can learn and it's not easy to do sometimes, but it's definitely where you want to be. - Absolutely, absolutely. Now mate, I wanted to ask, what's next? What's next, okay? So we spoke a little bit about how you're starting up your own record label company, right? And I know you've worked, you're already working with one of, you know, our mutual close friends who is an upcoming artist, Renee Leveer, Lefeer. And I want to ask you a bit more about that mentoring side of things. And what sort of role are you playing in? Not only, let's say Renee's life, but also what's your direction moving forward? Are you looking at getting some other young and up and coming artists? - Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think, you know, we started a record label called St. Lenin Music, named out to my great-grandfather. And it's about, yeah, I just want to, you know, obviously I'm putting my own music out through the label and I've been in the major label system my whole life. I've been signed, I'm a sign of Warner Brothers, I've been signed to Universal Music, and I've been a Sony Music. So you name it, I've seen it, how the big boys do it, and more than ever, is it so easy for you to do it yourself, and to build your own team, and to be able to make the decisions and call the shots them, and do things the way you want to do it. And with that, I, 100%, I want to sign young artists on the publishing side and on the label side, develop them, you know, help them learn how important it is to write, you know, real music with real messages and authentically be themselves, but also, you know, have smart people around them that will help them not make stupid decisions when it comes to deals and their money when they finally get some. - Yeah, for sure. - So, you know, just being a mentor to people that love music and to good people that want to change the world, essentially, and there's so much talent out there. And, you know, if I can find, if I, you know, end up being lucky enough to find a few artists that I get to be part of their careers and help, you know, mentor them and build them in the right way than that'll be amazing chapter, you know. - That's really cool that you get to give back and be able to be that mentor, so to speak, to guide them in the right direction. And you have such a great insight into the music industry, not only being, you know, a massive part of your life, but also seeing both sides of things and how things really operate in multiple different scenarios. So, your knowledge and your wisdom and your mentorship would be invaluable to any upcoming artist, so I'm excited to hear more about that journey as it transpires, absolutely. And, at the end of every podcast, mate, we always finish off with what is your favorite quote? I purposely didn't tell you this because I wanted you to tell me your absolute favorite one. - And why? Take all the time you need. You can look at your phone, you can look at your phone, you can do whatever you need, but-- - And it's my favorite quote, your favorite quote, and why? - All right, this is a funny one, but many of the boys just always say it. And it's always darkest before dawn. And maybe we just said that 'cause it was always fucking dark. It was always dark and sweetened. It was always dark and fucking valiant. And it always just seemed like, "Fuck, where are we gonna get a break?" And then we'd be like, "But, we're gonna get it." Always darkest before dawn. (laughing) It would be like, the label just dropped you. But, you know, it was darkest before dawn. I love that. So they were the words, the fighting words, that saw you through. - And I was to this day, you know? It's always darkest before dawn guys. So, have a little hope, have a little faith, and you know, you never know. And I heard this today actually this morning when I was in the gym, I was listening to something, and it was just like, we tell ourselves these stories, and we live the human brain off those stories, cycles, and then predicts the future, right? Off what we know, what our bodies know, what our mind knows, and that cycles that we've been in for 20, 30 years, whatever we've been on the Earth for. And then we predict our future based off that. But that is complete bullshit, because that is literally just our bodies and our minds, like, pretty much, you know, putting up a video of what you think you deserve, or what you think you're gonna get. And we do it all day long, same thoughts, same patterns, all over and over and over again. And it's just nonsense, because you have no idea what is coming to you if you dial in, and you be the best version of yourself, and you be a good person, and you give back, and you try and change the world. Who knows what your life could look like, do I mean? And you could end up in a place, you could end up in a different country, doing things you never even dreamed of. And I think that kind of hope and that faith is something that message and general, that something that people should live by. - Mate, I love that. That's one of the best quotes we've ever heard on the show. So thank you for sharing that with us. Mate, can't thank you enough for coming on. It's been an absolutely unbelievable discussion that we've shared. Thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing some stories that, you know, it's not always easy to talk about, but that's where the true authenticity comes into. And I know that's been a topic for the day, and it's so true. If you can be authentically yourself, then good things happen, and it's also, it's so important for two other reasons is that you're giving your all to those that love you and those that are around you, but then also it's most importantly for yourself, that you're being your true version, so that you can provide value to those that you love, you can protect care and love. And I don't believe you can actually love without being authentic to who you are. Yeah, I feel you in that brother, I feel you. Well, thanks for having me, man. It's been a good chat. Conrad, thank you for coming on. Mate, it's been an absolute pleasure and can't wait to share your story. Cheers brother. (snaps) Oh, man. It was good, man. Brother, that was unreal. Yeah, man. That was good. That was good, man. I really haven't done one other podcast, and that was better than it. So, you're a winner. (laughs) Mate, I couldn't agree more. Mate, might as well sit you on the phone and you're saying on where I'm content now I'm going to call you on the phone. Yeah, no, I'm content. We're content. We're better, we're better. Mate, what we'll do, mate. I know you've got a busy schedule. It will take a few photos and we'll. (door closes)
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The guest, Conrad Saul, was invited to the podcast after being recommended for his interview skills and feeling ready to share his industry experiences.
He grew up in a musical family, started singing by mimicking artists like Michael Jackson, and had strong parental support, including his mother’s encouragement to dream big.
After high school, he formed a duo called The Fretz with a friend, later expanding into a rock band, and they pursued international success through writing camps and showcases.
The band faced many rejections and financial struggles, including being ripped off for $50,000 and sleeping on couches, but persisted due to blind faith.
A key turning point came when they signed with Universal Germany, toured with major acts, and had a minor hit, but the label eventually ran out of money.
Conrad later wrote a song with Jamie Hartman that caught the attention of Roc Nation, leading to a solo career opportunity, which meant leaving the band behind.
Summary:
In this podcast episode, the host welcomes musician Conrad Saul, who shares his journey from a music-loving childhood to navigating the music industry’s highs and lows. Conrad grew up in a family where music was central, with grandparents who were singers, and he began mimicking artists like Michael Jackson. His mother’s encouragement led him to dream big, and he developed a powerful, unique voice.
After high school, he formed a duo called The Fretz with a friend, later expanding into a rock band. They faced numerous setbacks, including being ripped off for $50,000 and sleeping on couches, but Conrad’s blind faith kept him going. The band eventually signed with Universal Germany, toured with acts like Simple Plan and Avril Lavigne, and had a minor hit, but the label ran out of money.
A pivotal moment came when Conrad co-wrote a song with Jamie Hartman that impressed Roc Nation, leading to a solo career opportunity. However, this meant leaving his bandmates behind—a difficult decision given their deep friendship and shared struggles. Conrad reflects on the importance of persistence, vulnerability, and learning from mistakes, emphasizing that success often requires tough choices and unwavering belief in oneself.
FAQs
Music was always in his family, with his grandparents being singers. He grew up listening to Motown and artists like Stevie Wonder and Michael Jackson, and his mother encouraged him by emailing the biggest producer in the world when he was nine or ten.
They formed a duo called The Fretz, playing gigs around Brisbane and writing songs together. They believed they could be like Savage Garden and pursued music despite knockbacks.
He faced many rejections, financial struggles, and slept on couches, but had blind faith that things would work out. He traveled to Sweden to write 30 songs in a month and showcased for labels, eventually getting a deal with Universal Germany.
He and his bandmates were best friends and fully committed to the band. He decided to hold out for a European deal rather than leave them behind.
The band moved to Berlin, toured with Simple Plan and Avril Lavigne, and had a song called Fire that charted in the top 20. It was a time of partying and experiencing real fans, but the song didn’t lead to lasting success.
They wrote a song that Jay Brown loved and wanted for Kylie Minogue. This opened doors and led Conrad to leave the band and pursue a solo career.
Chat with AI
Loading...
Pro features
Go deeper with this episode
Unlock creator-grade tools that turn any transcript into show notes and subtitle files.
PodcastTranscript AI