Ep 005 - Matthew Nixon II

Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to the Summer Quarter Podcast Episode 5. I'm your host Josh Thurius and in today's episode you get to listen in on a conversation between myself and Matthew Nixon, the second a former para and current coach in the Bellingham School district. This conversation is a very real and authentic conversation about our experience working as paras. We philosophize about ways in which we think that the school district can be improved and share a little bit about what it's like to be a father of a child in the school district. There's a whole lot that we take on in this episode, and at the end of the day, this is a conversation between two dudes with big hearts. Without further ado, let's jump into the conversation between myself and Matthew Nixon, The 2nd Nixon. Welcome to the. Speaker 2 Podcast. I appreciate you having me. Speaker 1 Yeah. This podcast is primarily for my students, but it's really open for everybody. A lot of the students there, they're, they're in Bellingham for the first time. In fact, I think I've only had three out of 300 students who went to a Bellingham school. They're all coming in from different cities, different states. Speaker 2 Yeah, wow, that sounds impressive. Speaker 1 It's cool that it's like the class is almost an intro to Bellingham, right? In a lot of ways. So, but yeah, if you don't mind just introducing yourself and and maybe just talking a little bit about where where you started and then how you got to Bellingham. Speaker 2 OK, all right, so names Matthew Nixon, so named after my dad. One of six kids, six of my dad's children. So my mom only has the three. So either way you slice it down the middle child and my mom's only boy so raised up. Both parents are military so traveling around a lot but always call Ohio home because that's where all my family is now so and it's where they always were. We always went back to Ohio so might be stationed here. Then you go back to Ohio and then you. Next thing you know, you moved. Parents didn't tell you you were moving back then. You were just there, you know. So you're in Panama all this day and then you go to back to Ohio, and then next thing you know, you're in Texas and then you're in. Yeah. So finished high school just outside of Fort Knox, KY. Went straight to the military, went Navy, didn't want to do Army, traveled around a little bit stationed in Iceland for two years. That was a cool experience there. Then I got stationed in Oak Harbor. Met my wife, thought I was going to get out the Navy and go back to the East Coast. Next thing you know, I'm in Bellingham. We moved up here with 2007 and a couple of kids later and it's been a good life. Speaker 1 What was the pool to Bellingham? Speaker 2 So, man, you know, when I got off the Navy, I knew I wanted to go to school. Didn't really know what I wanted to study or where I wanted to study. But Tennessee? Has like non, what do you call it when you live in a residency? So they have no residency law so there's no out of state tuition. So I was like perfect. And Tennessee is nice. I'm kind of familiar with the South Midwest area. So say yeah, Tennessee, Nashville. Well then I kind of dealt with the thing like my wife's whole family is out here. So I didn't want to be that guy who takes the girl and, you know, isolates her and, you know, things like that, so. Stayed out here, started school at Skadget and then they do an upside down degree. So I did. So I did all my human service work at Skadget and then I transferred to Western to do all my general studies. So yeah, so I basically already had my major done. So transferred up here 2006, yeah, 2006. And then halfway through 2007, I got tired of. Catching buses and commuting and stuff, you know, broke family, we're broke. Like man, this is this is tough. So we moved up to Bellingham. So that's how I got up here. Speaker 1 When you moved to Bellingham? Yeah. When did you get connected with the school district? Speaker 2 Oh, that's a that's an interesting story there. So when I finished at Western in 2008. I started the my first job out of college. So first of all it took a while to find a job. I drove my wife crazy. I was like, I mean bro, if it's 24 hours in a day, I was using about 18 and 19 of them just looking for jobs. I was just not working, was just foreign to me. So drove my wife crazy because I was like obsessed. So I got a job at Northwest Youth Services. So I started to kind of meet. Teenagers and learn more about the schools and the the vibes of each school. But I didn't directly get into the school district until I actually was cutting hair full time. Football season was coming up. We needed age verification for one of our boys, so I had to go to the district office to get a verification just to show he's the the age and grade that he says he's in. So as I'm walking in, this Big Brother walks out. I'm looking up and and I'm like, I've seen this brother before, you know, And he looked at me like, oh, hey. And so we we hit it off and we're talking, we're chopping it up. Turns out he's the vice principal at the high school at Squalicom. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 And I'm like, yeah, so his kids and my kids went to the same elementary school. So I'm like, that's where I've seen you. So we got the talking and, you know, talked about, like some of my frustration, because one of the things that I struggle with is patience. So, you know, anytime you start a business, you got to have patience, right? So I'm like, I'm trying to start this business cutting hair. And I'm like, man, this is too slow. And it's like, you know, my friend Renard, he's in there, He's cutting 20 heads a day. Everybody knows him. You know, they won't even look at me. They're like, I don't know if he's good, you know? So, you know, I'm like, but I have an education. And he asked me about my education. I told him, You know my degrees in Human Services and. Yeah. So he's like, hey, I think I might have a job for you. I said, oh, he was like, yeah, he was like, go here, apply here and and then we'll reach out to you. So I did it, and I just did it. I did it. And literally, that was August. Speaker 1 Maybe the school year just started and by September 11th I was in the school it. Speaker 2 Was just like it just happened that quick. At Squalicum High School. Speaker 1 OK. Yeah. Speaker 2 Became the job coach that year? Speaker 1 Yes, yes. What year was that? 2. 1015 2015. Speaker 2 Yes, that's when we first met. Speaker 1 That's right, man. Any everything pre COVID is all blurred. Speaker 2 We got, we got to change this no longer AD and BC is like it's like PC. PC1 and PC-2 is like pre COVID and post COVID. Like, like that's like the day before. Speaker 1 COVID seemed so long ago, like we have to shut out Q. Speaker 2 That's my guy. Speaker 1 Yeah. If you are listening, yeah, we spent a lot of years. I spent a lot of years with Q. Also, so many stories. Speaker 2 So many stories. He's a good dude and we're birthday buddies, so happy birthdays are only. I want to say he's the 5th and I'm the 9th. Something like we're really close. He might be the 7th or something like that, but like our birthdays are really close. Speaker 1 Yeah man, it seems to me like there is a lot of potential for human service made graduates to work with in the schools. It's surprising to me that it's not. There's it's surprising to me that there's not like a, you know, maybe an elevated version of a para where it's like okay, you have your degree and and you can provide a whole lot of support that is missing. So. So can you talk to me, Talk to me about what was, what that was like working in the schools for the first time? What are some of the things that caught you off guard? What are some of the things where you're like, oh, one of those old moments, you know, they're talking about aha moments, but there's also old moments. Speaker 2 You know what? That's that's good. It's interesting because I'm so part of my practicum. I was working in the middle school, so I was down at Le Venture and Mount Baker Middle Schools in in Mount Vernon. And so I kind of already been broken into like this teenage world younger, you know, middle school is. Is different. Like you can't put middle school in the same category as high school. It's just it's it's different. They hit different, different points of progression in developing and maturing. But I I think the thing that hit me the most in high school wasn't about the kids at all. It was about the adults working in the building. And what you can see right away is the the adults who don't have. The people skills to work in the school environment. So they got the academics down, right? They they got the subjects down. They they did their four to six years and their certificates and learned how to teach the subject matter. But it's like there's a part missing that's the human element and and that's what blew me away. It's just like, how can you not know and understand how to talk to other people? And how can you not remember being a high school student? Because that's what it seems like. It seems like they don't remember being a, you know, a 15/16/17 year old young adult. And so that that blew me away. And there's a feeling I think people looked at me like I was. Doing the miracle work or something like that. You know what I mean? Like I was like, and I'm like, I'm just being, I'm just being a human being. I'm just being. I'm just being here and I'm just being authentic to myself. And The thing is, I think adults, teenagers are a lot more honest I think, than than we give them credit for. And they vibe and they they understand authenticity and I think they they seek it out in adults. But if you're not, I think they seek, they understand that as well and they react to it. And they might react to it in a way that you and I as adults, you know, have learned how to journey through the world and deal with all sorts of people. But as a teenager you don't have that experience yet. So you might be like F this guy, you know, like and it might come out that way and and not a nice way, right? Or you know, they keep you at an arm's distance. They can. You know, they'll work with you, but they won't let you in. You know you won't get in in their life. And so I think just being authentic and consistent, you just start to break down walls. So for me, it just the it's scary. Speaker 1 OK, I'll tell you a quick story, right. Yeah, I'm here. Speaker 2 For you here for it. So scariest, scariest thing that ever happened to me in school. It's not a fight. Speaker 1 It's not like hearing a rumor that somebody brought a weapon to school was sitting in the teacher's lounge, right? You OK? You talk about it? Yeah. Speaker 2 And then so hearing, you know, you know, teachers will remain nameless and all this stuff. But this was also the moment that I knew I would never be a teacher. I listen and they're talking about kids by name and the adjectives that they use to describe these kids. And I'm just like, you're a teacher. Like he's like, you know what I mean? Like you're ruining my, you know? Teachers are put up on a pedestal and so it's it's like, wow, not only are are you letting me down, like what does that say about the attitude that you're carrying into the classroom with these kids, right. Because you don't just that's not something you can just hide and just and play it off like it's all good when you're in the classroom. You're letting that stuff trickle out and and those kids feel that they receive that right. The the energy that you give out. If it stinks it, people are going to smell it. You know what I'm saying? Right. And so that was like, it just blew my mind. Like, I. So at that point, like, I knew I wasn't going to be a teacher. I never go to functions. God Lord, if anybody's watching this right now, well, you know or or maybe it's better that you do hear this right? Because it's not personal. Because I love the teachers that I work with. I love them to death. I think, I think so greatly of them. But I'll never go to that teacher's function just because I can't put myself in an environment where. And I don't think it's prevalent so much at squalicum, let's say, or you know, the call it directly, but just that dark cloud and negativity in the way you actually view some of the kids that you're kind of like, you know, you're not sworn in. But I mean this is like. What you have been called to do that stuck with me. Speaker 1 Yeah. It seems. I feel all of that man. Because. And it seems like folks don't recognize that they are contributing to a culture, you know, and so and in every single classroom there's a culture and those students who don't want to participate in that culture are going to disengage, you know, and you were talking about authenticity earlier, right? What are we doing to the students when the culture is one that the students don't feel like they want to contribute to? If if they're forced into that, that is a loss of their own authenticity. Yeah, therefore there then. Oh yeah, A couple episodes back, Tony, coach, Tony was talking about he was running into a lot of drones. He said he called them drones. Yeah, Where it's like just copy and paste and you couldn't really be real. You couldn't be honest. And for those, for him, he would just he he just wouldn't. It was like water oil and water like mix. I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not going to jump into that. You know, I remember there was one time I was working in a class and a student came in and I shared the story in, in class. Every quarter student came in and drew a picture on, you know how anytime there's a white boy, they're going to draw, right? So. Speaker 2 It's got to be done. Speaker 1 The student drew this picture of this person's person's head and the and the top of the of the, like, right where the hairline was. It was like flipped open like a toilet seat, you know, Like it was like the top of the, you know, the top of the head was just like opened up and and then it was just filled with stuff like it like it was a garbage can. Like it was like a overflowing garbage can. Yeah. And in my mind, I was like, oh, that kid needs a break. You know, it's like this kid has so much information being stuffed into their skull that they are just expressing, right? And then next thing teacher walks in, grabs the eraser, erases the thing and they're like, how are y'all doing? And then no response. You know, I'm just like, hold on, they just told you, right. You know. But it's picking up on, it's picking up on a whole another level of communication, I think. And I told my serious I have never been through the the Western teaching program. I have never. I don't know. I don't know what happens, you know. But it seems to me like there's a lot of emphasis on training the brain and so much so that people might be losing track on that heart stuff, the feels. You know and one of the classes we talk about, what's the difference between I understand you and I feel you. It's like there's there's different like it's like logically I can understand the thinking yeah. But feel is empathy. You know, I, I, I just been in your shoes. So I know and that's going to, that's going to dictate the interaction, right. And I think as soon as they're starved for it, especially from the from the staff level. Speaker 2 Definitely from the staff level, understanding is intellect. It takes a intellect to understand something. But when I'm feeling something and then you understand what I'm feeling like what that does absolutely nothing for me, right? Because I feel like, I mean, I'm emotional. I want you to, emotionally. Connect with me right here. So so feeling. Like feeling, man. I feel you. I feel where you're coming from. I've I've been there, you know. And then and then showing me like you're not just giving me word service like you actually are there. And you can empathize with my situation. Like man who we act like kids don't need that, right. I want that right now. I want. I want that right now. So, so why? Why wouldn't when when you're a kid and you have so little things in your control? And you experience the world as it is everybody. I mean, you got drinking parents and druggie parents. And, you know, Once Upon a time, that's what I realized to myself was because I felt burned out. You know, you feel burned out sometimes. This may be this child's only positive interaction with an adult today, like this one. And I might only see them in passing in the hallway. This is the one shot I might have. I got to take the shot. I got to take the shot, right? And man, like, I can get emotional just thinking about that. Like just thinking. Because I've seen him. I've seen him repeatedly, hundreds of them. Yeah. As a young man, I was just just thinking of just now. Like I remember at the middle school he was at, he was in middle school at the time. And he was just like like bro, when he came to school this like, I mean, he might be. You might not see him for a week or two. He might be here two days a week. You might, you know, you might have a good week and show three days. But I remember every time you get on campus, my radio start blowing up, blah, blah, Blah's here. You know, they're dropping his initials on the walkietalkie and you know, the kids start picking up on them. They know who's here and all that stuff. And man, I was happy when he was there, right? Because we could go, we could talk and. Yeah, he might blow up at a teacher because they're not feeling what he, you know, what he's going through. I mean, what he's going through is single mom, older brother, brothers and some gang activities. There's a lot of things going on around them, A lot of violence, a lot of confrontation, you know what I mean? A lot of things. And you throw that in front of a 14 year old boy. How do you process this? So Fast forward. I'm coming out of Rite Aid. I got to run into him and I seen on Facebook that he had a baby girl. He has his baby girl with him in a car seat. And he said and we should sit there and we talk in the parking lot for 30 minutes. He always, he always tells me he loves me and it's like, man, that's cool. But I was like because we were always glad to see each other, you know what I mean? Like, I have any preconceived notions or or anything. You know, I just seen a kid, you know, getting kicked out of class or something like that or something else. You know what's going on. This teacher. This is not it. And and they said this and I and I tried to do this and they, you know, and you know you got kids talking. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 Oh, 100%, yeah. I feel you like I understand the frustration. You know you're trying to do the right thing, and you're not being acknowledged for doing the right thing, but then you throw the pin down out of frustration. Oh, you threw a pen. You know, they're all over them. Speaker 1 They're going to put that on skyward. Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Think time. We're going to do some think time right now, right? Yeah. And it's like, I feel that. I feel you like that's that's a ridiculous reaction. So I don't know, we're we're missing something. We're we're missing something. But I think the thing we're missing is huge. It's not a little thing. Speaker 1 Thinking about the role the schools play. And I mean, we're both dads, right? And thinking about the amount of time our kids are away from us and who's around them, not only from the student perspective but from the teacher perspective. And yeah, we talked about this in class. Oh yeah, there's a beautiful quote. WEB Dubois says students learn more from who you are than what you teach, right? And so the students are marinating, marinating in the culture of your classroom. You better bring the best of you into that classroom every day. Now I get it. It's a hard that's a hard job. You know and and. And so maybe the perspective is less so on picking out the teachers, but thinking about the system as a whole, thinking holistically, like my my dream would be every in every classroom there's a para that is just heart centered, You know, just feeling there's a Doctor Gabor Mattei, I don't know, maybe Doctor Daniel Siegel, they talk about emotional atmosphere. Yeah. What is the emotional atmosphere of the room? And that takes people, that can feel people to be like, Oh yeah, you know what, teacher? Like your energy right now is shutting off half this class. You know, I'm going to be really honest with that, you know, And and just like the kids are going through things, the teachers going through things like, do you? You know what? There's so many. There have been so many times where when I was student success coordinator, I could only work. It was very difficult to pull students out of class. You don't want to pull students out of class. They're trying to learn. And so I would have this excel sheet of all of the the teachers prep periods. I know I can just go in. Hey, can I talk to you about the student? 75% of the time I walk in. And then I'll just get fire hosed with the students, with the teachers frustrations and this and that and and all and all the pressure that's on them. And so, yeah, recognizing OK, that job is that's difficult. So then how can we step outside of this individualized way of working? And like, how can we work collectively? And it seems like Paris, yeah, we talked about this before Paris are very. Undervalued. Speaker 2 Yes. Speaker 1 And what they do and what they bring into the space needs to be. I don't even know what the word is. Overvalued. More valued. Speaker 2 Way more valued. Yeah, it it needs to be seen and it needs to be expressed by the, by the districts. You know, all the stuff that comes. It comes from up top. Right now it trickles down. I mean it's a schoolhouse is a is a machine. The teachers are like cogs, right? But the the paras are the oil, right. If you don't have those that oil piercing and keeping those cogs running smooth, it's all going to fall apart. So it needs to be acknowledged through pay, through it through acknowledgment and and benefits while your parents, the first one to go, you know, I can't help but think about all the overturn going on in the school district like right now already. And this isn't to bash the the district because I do believe they try to do well. But when I go into a school and now you're telling me the librarian who's been there in the last six years is out to bounce around another librarian who's been at a different school for, say, 12 years. So now you're creating a whole nother problem for two people. And it's like there's got to be another answer. It's got to be another way the the teachers are held to such a standard that they can't be people. They can't be teachers. When you teach something, like teaching and learning is not a recurgitation of facts or numbers or something. When I when I'm when I'm taught something, I remember it forever. Like you can't unlearn, right? You can. You can learn new, you can learn new information, but you can't. Like I was I was taught that 2 + 2 is 2. I've done the math. I've done the the the work million times, right? It's it's in here, right? So now I can learn a new way to to do it but I can't unlearn that. Well, these teachers are stuck in this box and then it's creating boxes for their classrooms and creating boxes for each individual student and if you start to flow outside of that box, well now you're you're the problem. And so the the the question is how do we get out of boxes? That's that's a very good question. You know what I mean? Well, when you get, when you get that new box of Lucky Charms and and it's go time, you rip that box open, then you got the plastic underneath and sometimes you got it, you can pull it, but sometimes you might have to go get the scissors. But we don't want to do that to the school system for whatever reason as a country. We just, we refuse to open the box and let the lucky charge flow into the bowl. Like instead we just, I don't know, you want to shake it here like it's like a a rattle like you just shake it. I don't like, I don't know what what our goal is in the education system. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Can we think outside the box? Let's say, can we just run this experiment? We have a school district or we have a We have an elementary school. OK, here's the game We might be we might solve the world's problems right now. Speaker 2 We're capable. We're capable. Speaker 1 We got an elementary school, we got a junior high, and we got high school. Okay. Let's take for example, your kids went to Northern Heights. Speaker 2 Let's say it's Northern Heights Chucks and Squalico Okay. Speaker 1 We are seeing a need for. Social, emotional support. These kids were, these kids were, they were working remote for two years or however long it was coming back. From what I'm hearing, there's there's a lot of attitude. There's the levels of disrespect coming from the students are heightened. There needs to be more support for that sort of things. How? How? We got teachers in K In the elementary school we got one teacher per 25 to 32 in element. In junior high the the students have about five teachers. Speaker 2 At high school they've got about eight teachers right eight period day or 8 periods in A 8 periods for a day. Speaker 1 For a day, there needs to be more support for the students. Money's not an issue. That's always the issue. That's what? That's where it is. That's where it that's where the sticking point is. But what what shift, what? How would you add to that schooling pipeline to provide the support for the students that you work? Working mostly with. Speaker 2 That's a great question. So I look around the world right as a documentary I watched that left an impact on me. It was it's the guy, I think his name is Michael Moore. I want to say Michael Moore. He made a documentary called Where the US Should Invade Next. So the title, like, got me like invade. Like, what do you mean invade? You know what we're doing? Invading. And essentially all he did was goes to all these other countries and take things that they do culturally through economics, the work, right. So he went to, I want to say, was Germany and he went to a crown factory of all places, right. So this is factory work. And in Germany was focused on how even the most I guess you call an important job isn't. You know I don't disrespect anybody making crowns or any type of factory work but this isn't looked at like a doctor or you know the jobs that are higher held to a higher escalon of person, right. They reflect on you like you're higher than thou, right. These are people working in a factory and it talked about how they made a livable wage, how they got vacation and how much time they actually spent working to to make that living. Whereas I think the United States is one of the only countries in the world that are out of the, what do they call it, first world countries that focus on the 40 hour work week. They went to Spain and focused on things like vacation and maternal and paternal leave. Things like this, like people take a year and a half, two years off when they have a child as a family. Versus 3 months, six months, if you get 3 months, if you as a mom, I think you get 3 months as a dad, you might get 2 weeks, 3 weeks, something like that. It's something, it's something crazy and that speaks to our country, what we value already, right? Work is more important than the family. So I think when you look at the root of everything in our country, it shows because it's coming from the top down, right. So it's it's more important to work, you know, entrepreneurialism, capitalism, all these things supersede you, Solomon, that like at your family like it supersedes that because you got to go out and be productive. So that's that's the most important thing in the world. But then you have other countries, first world countries, you know, these aren't like, oh, living in a dirt for like a better words. But so in Spain and they're talking about benefits, vacation, self-care. And that's a focus in Spain, right. So you got people on the beach and he's interviewing people, haven't been working two months, still have their job, and on any extended leave or anything like that. This is they're expected to take vacation. They're told to take vacation. Like they won't let you come back to work. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 Then they go to was it, it's one of the Dutch countries, I want to say Holland or somewhere like that. So standardized testing, it's a little different there, but they are blowing America away. Like when they're high school age students blowing America away. So he's going, he's like what are they doing here? Like why? Why are the kids so you know, quote UN quote smart and they're going, they have like 2-3 hour school days. Like they get, you know, if they want to take a nap, they take a nap. It's no such thing as homework. It's like, well, it's baffling, right? Because it doesn't look productive. Speaker 1 Yeah, right, right, right. Speaker 2 So how can you do less and yet achieve more? But that's the culture that they're building there. So these kids are doing way more with less time. But we somehow in America figured that stuff in these kids in these buildings with no air conditioning, no air flow, terrible food. Hey, chef, I'm sorry to tell you the food is terrible. Needs improvement and I know kids that will skip a meal the whole day. They get offer one meal, you know, other than you know about a little thing of cereal and milk or a cereal bar and yogurt. It will skip food all day because it's bad. And you go in their cafeterias over overseas and they got like gourmet meals being made like real food, like like real real food, like a school garden. And they go, you get food out the garden and you cook it in the school. And it's like this actually looks cheaper and more sustainable and it's better for the kids. So why? What is it about America that we feel like we have to lessen the the quality of everything? We got to water everything down to mass produce it, to make it productive, all the while killing our own people. Yeah, it's just a weird concept. So if you see it, it's where should America invade next? Okay, this man. It's powerful documentary. I got so pissed. I didn't watch that. Like it was like at least two or three more countries. I was like, I'm done. I'm done. Speaker 1 Right. So, but So what I'm hearing from based on what you said. If we were to take those lessons from from those different countries and implemented it into this pipeline of schooling K through 12, what I'm hearing is maybe just pump the brakes on like the the frequency frequency or like the the tempo of the school of of schooling and schooling and work one of the things. One of the things that I talk about in class is why is learning slow inferior rest? Why is slow bad, right When I know I love a good slow jam. I love food that's slow cooked. You know why can't slow? Why can't learning at a slower tempo be okay? And can we accommodate for that? Because there's some, there's a lot of students who need a slower tempo. You know, and the and the parallel that I draw is in in class is talking about how in music you can go halftime and it's okay, you know, right. And that still works, you know and so can we. Is there a way okay going back to this culture in this classroom? How can teachers provide tempos for the students that match their ability to learn that? It seems like that's something that needs to be considered. Is thinking about the pace and how much is compressed, How much information is compressed into that time that is allotted and. What might that look like if we slowed it down a little bit? Speaker 2 That's a great question. But I think it it starts with we're not educating people, right? We say we're we're say we're educating, but we're not educating because you have a different upbringing than I do. Different areas grew up in things that are common where you are and not common where I'm from, things that are coming where I'm from or not. You might look at it and say, well, what kind of plan is that? What kind of bug is that? This is in the United States. I'm not talking about another country. Right, right. Just in the US if you go down to Texas right now and you spend a little time in San Antonio, you're gonna find 100 different bucks species that you don't see up here. And everything in Texas is bigger. It is true. It is true. Everything is bigger in Texas. And I mean the plants will eat you, right? So how can you take Little Willy in Texas who's growing up on a 14 acre sand farm? Because it's dry. Bring them to a place like Seattle. Put them in the classroom with a bunch of people who have grown up around high rises and rain. You know where the water is clear. They can drink the water out the tap. Put them in the classroom and say we're going to teach you at the same pace, about the same things. You know, Willie might not know that Pythagorean theorem because it wasn't important on the farm in Texas. Right. So we're just taking education and we're like creating a formula for it and then packaging it up, mass producing it and just put it on a conveyor belt. So who are we teaching? We're not educating anybody. These kids graduate high school with a diploma, but can't function in the world. So are they educated because they can regurgitate the amendments of the Constitution or something? You know that I remember that was an assignment that kids had to sit there and memorize the the amendments in the preamble of the Constitutional. And that's done a lot of great for us, hasn't it? Right. That's done great things. Yeah, they took that preamble and just did some amazing things in the world, but they don't know how to apply for a job. Speaker 1 Yeah, right, right, right. And I hate all of these people. You know what I mean? Just thinking about those two different perspectives that you had just mentioned, putting them in a class, and now you're gonna try to teach them this. What space in the class do they have to be able to learn from each other, right? Like how much interconnecting? Or community building is happening when you have people from very diverse background and none of them oh, I sat in this class, we were sitting in these pods of four people and I turned to the student next to me. I said this is well into second semester. I said, what's that? What's that student's name in the pod? Like straight across. I don't know what. I started. I like, I disrupted the class. I was like, how you don't know. You don't know the name, you know. There's so much emphasis on teaching this content, making the standard, pushing them forward. And it's like we're totally missing each other. And that goes back to the importance of making those connections, empathetic connections with the, with the students where it's like, I know, I know, I know what you're going through right now. Like I feel you, I know. And I will be able to support, you know, but the lack of that in in schools might be the stoppage might be. Yeah. A a very, a larger detriment to success than people are willing to realize. Speaker 2 Right. Eventually. Right. I have the saying, I'm a philosopher. You know that I'm a philosopher. So systems are made for machines, right? So the car you drive around, it's a system. It's a machine based on a lot of systems that work together to let the car roll up and down the street. Systems are not great for human beings because we don't, we don't fit into systems, we don't fit into boxes. We don't fit into round pegs, square pegs, Octagon pegs. Like we don't, we don't work like that, you know? And I know teachers are kind of town, take a couple of lumps from some of the things I've said. But I understand like, I'm not against teachers because teachers are people too. One of my one of my favorite things to do when I was still at squadcom full time was just standing at the door and greet every teacher when they come in. Because it's also might be the last positive interaction they have with a person for the rest of the day. And just to be there with a smile on my face. Hey, good morning. How you doing? Call them my name, smile high fives all around. You know, it might be the only interaction they have. Good the rest of the day. Life at home is crap. The car is, you know, spitting out Gray smoke. They get here. They're not violent with the kids. The kids aren't vibing with them like. And we're here till 3:30 and we're here till 3. 30 and the lunch sucks. Right, right. So at what point are we going to like, strip the titles, like strip teacher, strip student, strip school? When are we going to be human, teach each other, learn and care about each other? Because that's all this is. It's all it's just about caring about, you know, I'm learning just as much in the course of a school day as any student in the building. I learn, I learn tons from the students, rather something as simple as a word and how they get embarrassed when I say it, even though they say it all right. Or whether it's a concept. A concept I learned was like gender neutrality. It's like okay, no boy, no okay. You're a girl. But the concept of a boy want to be a girl, OK. The concept of a girl want to be a boy, OK. The concept of not being any gender whatsoever, that's new to me. Like, whoa, OK well, I can, you know, I got some learning to do. So teach me. And some and some teenagers are some of the most, like, graceful teachers there are. You know, they tell you exactly where they are, what they feel about it and why they chose to go that way. A lot of those can't do that. So I mean, I feel like you give people an opportunity to be a teacher. You can learn so much, and I learn much in teaching as I do in learning. So it's just a lot of missed opportunity in these buildings right now. Speaker 1 Yeah, man, yeah. What you just said just made me think of it. I know one, they're a teacher in my life. And they said. I don't know what these kids are talking about. You know, I don't know. It's a it's a lingo whatever it is, like they don't, they don't get it, you know. And just what you just said what would it look like if the teacher was a student? You know, we get locked into these roles. I think that this is part of goes back to that being a clone or a drone. It's like okay, this is I'm a teacher, you know. So I will operate as a teacher and I will teach, you know. But if you view yourself as a collection, yeah, multifaceted individual. Speaker 2 I love that word collection. Speaker 1 Right. Then you can be like, OK, all right, y'all teach me something you know and I will model for you. Just going back to the kids, learn more from who you are than what you teach. I will model for you a good student. I'll be a student. Tell me more about that. What do you what? What do you mean? Like in my day? Nope, that's not what it was. You know, Can you? The question is, can you enter into their day? Speaker 2 Wow. Speaker 1 Can you? Yeah. And can you? Can you model your own perspective expanding? That's the question. Because otherwise then you're drowning. Speaker 2 You are just drowning doing your role, you know that's. Speaker 1 Right. And my guess is there's part of you that's pissed off because there's a whole other side if, oh man, there was. There was the summer of 2016 was the summer where I felt like my creative side was like, do or die, man. Like you need to express this creative stuff or it's going to be gone, you know, That whole like use it or lose it, you know? And that summer was actually. Really creative summer. I would there's I started singing again. I started playing music again. I started dancing again. There was evenings where I would be dancing out. The kids would, you know, you remember the days where the kids were all out in bed. And then it was just like, oh, I could do my thing and I put on my headphones. I would Just Dance in the living room. I start sweating there's and I hadn't done that in so many years. In 2016, summer 2016, that was like, OK, let's I need to use this part of me. And I did that summer, I went back to my office in the fall, that coming fall, and I sat down in my cubicle and I almost audibly heard my creative side say, OK, see you later. Like, this is, this is not going to work for us. Yeah. Just like you cannot bring this part of you into the space. So what are we going to do? That's it. And it dawned on me how much only a part of me could be brought into the schools, you know? And so in that way, I was droning, or yeah, I was droning. I was just doing my role. And and I've hung on to that. I said in whatever space, I'm going to try to be as whole as I can. I'm going to bring my creativity. And if it gets if it's weird, then so be it because this. This place needs some weirdness. Speaker 2 It does. It does. And And when are people gonna stop thinking that being peculiar is a bad thing? Yes. I don't wanna be like good questions. I don't wanna be like everybody else. Speaker 1 No, because if you keep on being like everybody else then you will never know who you are, right? Cuz you're all you just fit in the box. Oh my goodness. Speaker 2 I'm telling you, fill free the cereal, bro. Speaker 1 We Speaker 1 don't Speaker 1 need Speaker 1 more Speaker 1 box. Speaker 2 Let the let the cereal out the box, bro. That's all I'm saying. Let the cereal out the box, man. I don't know, Maybe. Maybe you're the Apple Jacks. I don't know. You know what I mean? I like, I like Lucky Charms. You feel me? But let it out the box, bro. It's it tastes great. Speaker 1 Because. Yes. And it needs. And if we can do it as adults, then the kids have somebody that's modeling for them. You know, I think about the schooling and at the end of the day, in my perspective is elders passing on wisdom and knowledge to the young ones. That's what it is. Imagine if the teachers view themselves as an elder. Speaker 2 You know, like that changes things, right? Speaker 1 It's like you're not a teacher, like you are a teacher, but. Or. Or cancer. Or assistant principal. All of it. Like, yes, you are that, but in the grand scheme of things, you are also an elder in this child's life and you are going to do damage or not. Speaker 2 I feel you right now. I feel you. I feel what you're saying. And that's part of the reason I left the school district. And that's something I don't talk to a lot of people about, see, because I I did. So when I left the school district, I went into real estate, right as you know. And I love real estate too. That's just another passion, one of the sides of me, right? But one thing about me in the schoolhouse, I could never not be me, right? I always have to be me and me is if you need a hug, I'm going to give you a hug, right? If you need to be told, pull your head out of your behind, I'm going to tell you, pull your head out of your behind. If I see a young man being a knucklehead and he needs to be tossed up in the air and put in the headlock, I'm going to toss them in the air. I'm going to put them in the headlock, right. I'm going to tell young men they're handsome. I'm going to tell them they can do good things. They're they're powerful. I'm going to tell young ladies they're pretty. They got, you know, they're brilliant. They can do whatever they want with their life. But the same thing that the school district will tell me I'm great for, they will also not like me for and like you said, like that human service to school connection and a different pay grade. They can't pay me for what I do. They can't. There's no job description for it because I'm everybody's crazy uncle, everybody's elder, right? And that's how I look at the kids. I don't look at them like these are just random kids thrown into the a building for, you know, commercial purposes, you know, because that's what it what it's about. It's about how many people can we put in this building to make money. I'm not about that, right. So I see young people. I've lived, I'm 42 this year. I've, I've lived, you know, 42 years of of life. Roller coaster. I can pass that on, right? I can. You can. You can learn from me and I can learn from you. That's the mentality that I go in with. So how can I help these young people? What can I, what can I give? What would I have gave to have somebody do the same thing for me in high school? Rough me up when I was doing stupid stuff? You know what I'm saying? And I'll mean rough. I'm not giving anybody's kids. Black guys don't get the wrong idea, right? I'm giving. I'm giving Nookies on the head or you know, something like that. But, you know, or just give me a hug, lift me up. 10th grade was one of the hardest years of my life. I thought my mom was dying. I was like, practically, like, depressed. I mean, like, I was just out there, you know, any given moment I might snap, I might cuss, teacher out. And I never made a habit cussing out adults. But that year was just that year, like, it was rough. Nobody, nobody. I mean, what's going on with this guy? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's usually a jovial, hyper, yes, but like, angry, No, it's not. What's going on with this guy? Nobody's looking. Nobody's checking, Nobody's asking. Like the signs were there. Nobody's there. Nobody's doing that. So who? Who's doing that in these schools? The Paris, right. And then I guess you can look at me because I'm all over the building. You call me like super para, so I'm super para. You know, I'm out here and like, hey, I'll, I'll jump on your bus from the time you get off the bus to the time you get back on the bus, like, I'm here and like, you can't, you're not going to be able to ignore me. You know, You can be annoyed with me. I don't care. And you can let me know that I'm annoying you right now. That's cool, right? But I'm going to make you feel something and we're going to share that. And that was always my goal. I never wanted any kid in that school to walk by me and feel like I didn't see them. So even the kid who might be an all Black and look like they want anything but for me to talk to him in that moment, I would speak to him in that moment anyway. I'll get out of my get out of my own comfort zone. And there's a kid. I probably shouldn't say this because it could be like identified to this kid, but I won't say anything. I won't even talk about how he dressed or anything. But I would always see them like, especially like during lunch, just out on the fields when everybody's out running around and acting crazy and stuff. Just be there. Not sitting with anybody, not, you know, talking, not interacting anything, just eat, watch. And I'll hear kids talk about them. They say things like, oh, he's, he's a lurker or a creeper. You know, you know, whatever words these kids be using these days, right? Basically they're describing the kid who doesn't talk to people and just who looks at people. Yeah. So one day I'm just like, there is a level of, I wanna say intimidation, but there is a level of discomfort that sometimes you gotta fight through, right? But if I'm a talk to talk, I'm gonna walk the walk. And I just sat down next to this kid, I started talking, man. It's one of the coolest kids, man. One of the coolest kids I met at the school, man. Like, I've been waiting for someone, you know what I'm saying? And we just started talking, man, he's just chilling. Like, man, I'm just chilling just sitting here enjoying the sun. He's like, I'm not actually, you know, watching people. I'm actually looking at cuz you know Squalicom has one of the most beautiful like lines of vision like from that lower lot. And I come in like if you sit in the right spot you can see the mountains to the water, everything. And he's just posted up just just taking it in every day. And I said probably I'll feel you, you know what I'm saying? Like this it's beautiful and and we got to a talking you know basis like every every day we pass each other we we spoke. It's like it's it's not hard, it's uncomfortable at times, but it's it's beautiful, man. To to to grow a relationship, you know, I don't know, man. I don't even know where I'm going with that. But it's just like, I feel it's like and I just want to push it out there to people like, man, get to know these kids and stop put them in boxes. Speaker 1 Man, I think about what you just said. There's a thing that I felt like I picked up when I was. Younger, working with kids, I realized, you know, everybody, generally people have their favorites, right? They got their favorites and then they would treat them a certain way, you know? And I started asking myself, I was like, what would it look like if I just treated every kid like that? You know, like every kid, I'm going to connect with them in the way that I would connect with. The student I would quote, UN quote, call my favorite, you know, and I was a game changer because all of a sudden the way I viewed the student was different, You know, it wasn't. And I think about, I think about people working in the schools who label put that label on the kids in in psychology is called the the fundamental attribution error where you like you were just judging the person's character or it's like that person's. Messed up. And then you don't even think about the context of, like, really, we could all be in those person's shoes if we went through the same things. And it's just not a person's messed up, you know? And so think about these elders in the schools who have flattened that student into that bad kid. Who are the same kids that we could come along with and be like, this kids is the funniest kid and could it be And my Yeah, the thing that I'm trying to get at is what would it, what would it take for the teachers to recognize that there's a whole another side to that student that other people can see but you can't see from your vantage vantage point? You know, what would it take for you to challenge your own? Misconception. And I wouldn't even call it a misconception. Maybe that kid is a knucklehead in class, you know? And so. But what would it look like to step away from this judgment of, oh, that kid doesn't care or that kid is bad and try to find a different angle. It goes back for me, that collection of that collection within every single individual. Okay. Yeah, you see the one? You see the side of them that is disengaged, that doesn't want to learn and do all that. There's more, period. There's more. So let's find ways to see the other angles. For me, that was get them in the gym. I would see them at the gym. I shoot around with them. Then it was different. You know, they're active. They're not just constrained. And then we get and then, yeah, you know, kids will just. Talk about whatever you're shooting around getting them in a different space, you know? Speaker 2 Who wants to sit down? Who right now, today, like there's things I'm not interested in. I don't sign up to go sit for an hour and 55 minutes and be lectured about it. Speaker 1 Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 But I'm 15 years old. I'm 16 years old. I'm full of this new testosterone is like going all throughout my body. And now you're telling me I have to sit in this classroom for an hour or 30 minutes to listen to you talk about dissecting a frog, which I've never touched a frog a day in my life. And I'm just supposed to get through this, right? Right. But you don't know me, Right. You don't know me and you don't know like. I was traumatized by being chased by somebody with a frog. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't know that, though, but you don't take the time to learn why I don't want to dissect this frog and why I'm not interested in this lecture you're given for an hour and a half while I have all this energy in me that feels like electricity. And I'm just rumbling in your desk right now, just ready to run and tag, touch walls and go outside and throw a football and kick a. A rubber ball as far as I can. You know, like I want to play. Speaker 1 I want to play and this this kid could actually do things physically that that teacher couldn't even dream of doing it. Speaker 2 Can't dream of it, right? But maybe Once Upon a time they did. But they you lose. Do you lose touch with that when you're when you become a an adult? I'm still a kid right now. I got physically matured, you know, I got some certain grades going now. But mentally, I'm like the the same kid I was, that certain desires and the and the playfulness and all that stuff that's I'm still that person. Like that hasn't gone anywhere. I've learned some things and I've learned how to, you know, conduct myself as an adult male in America. Speaker 1 Yeah, but you better have that outlet though. Speaker 2 I got to have that outlet, right? So. So what are the things I do? I play pickup basketball. With a bunch of other dudes. And I don't play with the the, you know, I'm, I'm the better basketball player guys. I hang out with the guys that you know are like we're going to play hard and we're going to have fun and we're going to you know tell each other good shot, you know. And then we're going to talk for an hour after we get done playing. Like we probably spend more time talking than we do playing because that's where we're at. And so I didn't, I didn't lose myself. I didn't become a different person. I'm the same person. I just you know. I've learned how to operate in the world, which is not something you learn in school by the way, right? You learn. You learn that by being out in the world. So will our kids be better off if school will say 3 hours versus 6 1/2 where the things they learned were actually relevant to what they actually got to go out and figure out once they leave the schoolhouse because? Get home. You're a turnkey kid. There's nobody there to make you a meal, right? There's nobody there to clean up after you. So why isn't Homec in the schools anymore? Or is it bad to call it Homec anymore now? So now you can't call it Homec? Like, like, what are we doing? Do we know what we're doing? Because I I challenge it. I challenge it. I just like. I tell us the thing about elementary and middle school kids getting home before high school kids like I don't. I still don't think that's a good idea. Speaker 1 But somebody, somewhere did some study like, can we talk to the community, you know? Speaker 2 What I mean? You know what I mean. Or how about this? Do we really need to cut? 200 positions in the school district right now. Is there no alternatives? Is there no How about this Purple Fridays? Or is it purple Thursdays? Speaker 1 Fridays. Speaker 2 Fridays, where do they come from? Why do we start adopting them? Why do they become a thing? They call them. They used to call them teacher work days. Why? Why is a teacher working in the building if there's no students in the building, Right? Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 So you send the kids home, you send the teachers to work cuz it's a work day, you pay them for it, but now you can't afford to pay them. So so like. How about this? How about we keep purple Fridays? How about we send the teachers home and this will be a day that they don't get paid cuz they don't work. Speaker 1 Relax. Speaker 2 Relax. You got a four day week now. How much does that hurt the teacher's pocket? I don't think they fill that in a month, one day missing one day of work. But you're telling me about doing it though. We got to cut like 100 positions. We got to move librarians from this school to that school and and these person you don't have as many years in, so you're gone and here. Oh, you just got here. But now you're going to teach half day here and then you're going to go there the other half day. What are we doing? It doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Speaker 1 One of the things that you were talking about still being a kid, it makes me wonder, I had this thought, you know, how students going through the schools, they know it's like authenticity meter. You know, it's like, Oh yeah, but OK, this one, oh, yeah. I can joke around with this one, or I can connect with this, this adult, this one. And so actually what happens there in that moment, in my perspective, defenses go up and now they're in a defensive state. They don't want to be. And then that teacher sees the, the sees the shield, Maybe somebody might call it a mask, sees the mask, and it's I wonder, I feel like it needs to be like psychological study or whatever. Or not, whatever. If the student, if the kid is trying, trying to see if there's a kid still in that adult, if they can still access that kid because that kid, yeah, they're still young. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 They're not conditioned to be this drone. It's. Drone It's like, are you a kid? Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 And some people are not. Wow, their their role. Speaker 2 Or can you get beyond your own ego? You went to school for six years, You got your masters, maybe you got your doctorate. You know, maybe you're at the top of the teacher pay scale. So can you get out of this box that you put yourself in and realize you're no different from the student you're teaching and they're checking. They're checking you. They're testing you. Wow, That's. I mean that concept. Speaker 1 I would want to do professional development, and it's like, OK, let's. OK, where's your kid? Tell me about your kid. I don't want to know about your accolades. I don't know what I want to know about what degrees you have. I want to know what you did in your free time when you were growing up. You know, I want to know if you drew, if you danced, if you sang, if you played sports. And then we're going to do that. Speaker 2 And let's do that. And I It should be like a daily thing. Speaker 1 Oh my goodness. Yes, yes, it. Speaker 2 Should be daily. Speaker 1 So all we need to do is cut those hours. Yeah, shorter school days. Let's payroll. Right. And then a little bit more to relax in the in the class I talked, there's this. There's this psychologist from Stanford. His name's Serene Palais. He wrote a book called Tinker Double Doodle Try, and it's basically that power of unfocused. So he's saying, he's saying if you work your job nine to five, eight to five in a focused state, that's recipe for burnout period, that it's going to happen, he said. What you need to do is have unfocused time built into your day so that you can alleviate some of that stress. And so the unfocused time means like napping, daydreaming, like literally, just like looking outside, tinkering. So like those fidgets, my guitars are my fidget. That's what it is. Speaker 2 Artistic fidget? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And trying. So trying something new, you were going to be bad at something and you were going to put in those reps to develop your, your abilities. And he's saying unfocused time can help make the focus time more focused. Yeah. And so when I'm when I'm talking to the students about supporting student success, I told him about the power of unfocused. I said, if you're sitting next to the student and they, they Daydream, try to avoid the feeling of like, oh, get back to work. Yeah. Because there was, there was specifically one time I was sitting next to the student and they were writing and then they just looked out the window and all of me want to be like, hey, you're supposed to complete this, like, let's get back to work. But I stopped that. I said, OK, just let him be. And what did the student do? He looked out. He's like, oh, you know, and so is that, that was that power of focus built in and what how is that, how is that represented in the school, in the, in the work, in, in education? I don't. I would argue that it's not. Speaker 2 Oh, Oh yeah, yeah, What it is. So you get an IEP. Because now, because now you are a DHD, you know, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You know, I I have a thing. I actually resonate with that a ton because my superpower is daydreaming. Like, bro, I can Daydream like like you wouldn't believe sometimes like I catch myself daydreaming while I'm driving. I'm like a little better focused like, right. But I mean, I used to do paper, so when I was at fair haven at Western. You know there's they're known for the papers you end up writing. So I mean there's some 20 + 30 plus page papers I've written over the years and I remember I'd be up in the room doing one of my papers or something. I have the TV on to be like the NBA playoffs or something, something great. My wife like you're not working. What are you doing? You're not working. You know, like I need this. Like I I need to like I distract myself from this stressful paper for about 10-15 minutes. Pers. And then like I knock out two pages and I take a mental break and then I knock out two or three pages. Like it's just it was just like a a cycle. And I didn't think about it. I never like put it into words or whatever, but that's kind of like what I was doing. I was like, I need to get that stress of the event, you know, off me and and give myself space and grace to still be human because the stuff sitting down and writing a 30 page paper is not. It's not human. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Writing is like, comes later in our, like, ancestral history. This is not original. Speaker 2 This is not original. Speaker 1 This is a new thing. Speaker 2 Like reflective and expressive, Reflective and expressive writing, right? Speaker 1 Yeah, right. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 People have been writing poems for centuries, thousands of years, right and or drawn? Poetic hieroglyphs Whatever. Research papers What nobody doing No 30 page research paper back. Speaker 1 I have to write about other people's thinking. Speaker 2 Other people thinking what? I'm not even researching, but we're calling it right. Boy, wow. You know, so are we serious? So what it what did I? I don't know. I couldn't tell you one page, one paper I wrote, but I wrote like hundreds and hundreds of pages in college and I couldn't tell you any except for one, because we took a class on. Like it was three classes rolled into one. So it was about environment. It was about the way we eat. And the third one, I can't remember, I think it was just like art, something like that. But it was 3. Instructors 3 classes but all one class and I learned about the food bill which like a lot of people still don't talk about. I learned about and we watched a movie or read a book. Omnivores dilemma. I think it was a book and then we watched the documentary. I learned a lot about government and all these like. Connections and how all this stuff and these people on this group end up here. And then it's like the president, vice president and the secretary of this and all that and it's like, wow, man, these are all the same fraternity, same, this same that. It's like this is wow. And then I wrote a paper on like a not natural, but like the pre diaspora diet and how it progressed as it came across the Atlantic. And like, so I remember that paper because it meant something to me, you know, So that was research I was actually doing. And I was learning as I was digging and reading and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, it meant something to me. I took it with me. And don't forget it. Speaker 1 Yeah, I bet you think about it every day, right? Yeah, other research papers, right? Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm just going to, you know. Regurgitate somebody else's thought. Put it into my own words. I'm going to cite it. MLS, Chicago. Like, whatever. Speaker 1 I remember when I was writing those papers, I'd be like, what does this researcher know about me? Speaker 2 Really. Speaker 1 Really. I'm studying him so much. What do you know about me? And it goes back to that conversation. Am I represented in this research? Are they are they even studying my people? No. Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Straight up. Right. We actually, just does me having a doctor's degree make me more credible to tell you about you right. Right. Right. Speaker 1 Than you are right. Right. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 So I have a huge problem with that. Speaker 1 We've got that's and that's happening, that is happening. Students are rejecting it. Speaker 2 They are, yeah. And that's never happened before. Not to the extent this generation isn't. Yeah, OK. Speaker 1 They're like, yeah, no, you trying to tell me about my experience, right? Yeah, yeah. I had a, oh, I had a moment, I was talking to a trustee of the college and this was first Gen. first Gen. event. So this this trustee was came up talking to us. He's like he said he was starting to explain how difficult it is for first Gen. students to go through the school system and and and and be the first of their family to to to to go through it. I looked at him. I said. Do you understand that that idea of a person that you were talking about walked out of your idea and into my body, and it's talking to you right now? Like, I know. Like, don't spend your time telling me about my experience. That's the same thing, you know? And then? But he was. He was he was a doctor. Speaker 2 And there you go. Speaker 1 That's craziness. Out of all the things that we discussed, is there anything either you want to circle back to something that that hit for you or is there anything, something, even something new that you might want to just leave the podcast with? Speaker 2 That's that's a great question. I like, I love that opportunity to wrap it up that way. I'll say this, We can talk education, We can talk books, we can talk life and experience. And if we're going to talk about life and experience, I hope we do it through a lens of love, right? Because at the end of the day, that's that's what should be pushing us towards greatness, right? If I love you and you love me, and you want better for me as I want better for you, how can we go wrong, right? How can we go wrong? Speaker 1 That's what I will leave with. Yeah, your time. Thank you for listening to episode five of the summer quarter podcast. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at the summer quarter dot podcast. If you want to hear more from Matthew Nixon the second, you can check out his podcast The Joint Account on Spotify. Until next time, peace.