Entry #125: Maril Davis

[MUSIC] >> I'm Sarah. >> And I'm Jessica. And welcome to Dr. Outlander Diaries. >> The podcast for Outlander fans. >> Diary entry number 125. >> Our interview with Merrill Davis. >> Welcome back, Sassanax. You heard that right. Merrill Davis was our guest this week. We are still pinching ourselves. We are so excited. We hope everybody had a great week. Sarah, let them know it's to expect on today's episode. In today's episode, you'll hear our recaps from the week and hear what Jess and I have been up to. You'll hear the latest in fandom news. And then we are super excited to bring a interview with Merrill Davis, the executive producer of Outlander and Blood of My Blood. Jess, what have you been up to this week? >> Well, nothing too exciting. Just lots of random yearly doctor's appointments. And then just summer stuff. Like the girls have summer dance classes. We've been doing a lot of swimming, sleepovers with friends. Just kind of soaking up summer and those kind of fun activities. My son turns 11 tomorrow. And then my oldest turns 16 and half a week. >> No. >> Just having a driving. >> How am I, I just remember people being like, how am I old enough to have a, and like here I am, how am I old enough to have a child that's driving, it's so crazy. So some party prep and stuff like that going on. And then yeah, just working behind the scenes over here to get us some exciting guests on the podcast and research and coming up with questions and all the things. So just keeping busy. What have you been up to? >> Well, we have talked about how hair appointments are a highlight of a week. And I got to have one on Thursday night. So that was pretty fun. My hairdresser is also a really good friend of mine. So it's always fun to like catch up with her and yeah, and have a little therapy session. And then something that I don't usually do on a weekend is go to a rodeo, which was what I did on Saturday evening. That was a lot of fun. There's a new arena in like our area. And it was well attended on Saturday night. I think there was over 6,000 people, 5 to 6,000 people was the number that I heard. So it was really hot. And there was a chance of rain. So we kind of played touch and go with the weather a little bit, but super fun. And a lot of my friends were there. Peyton was not feeling good Saturday night. So she ended up staying home with Josh. But yeah, I went and there's fireworks afterwards. Just all the fun things. And then Sunday, my niece had a birthday party, but we stayed home from that because my toddler was sick. So yeah, I did take her to urgent care, just to rule out strap. And then I stayed home with her yesterday. But we're just waiting that out. My biggest fear is this like parasite that I've been hearing about everywhere. Right? I don't know if you have. And you know, it's in Ohio right now, right? I don't know, but I'm freaking out because I thought that I, you know, I was chuckling at a couple of reels of people saying they want to like jumpstart their weight loss with a parasite. I was like, "Oh, and then my friend Ariel sent me a post on Instagram." And it was like, "What to do when you get this parasite?" And I was like, "Wait, this is a real thing." Yeah, our friend, Hannah lives in Ohio and she was like, "I think it's in our area now." Great. Yeah, great. I don't like that because I could have it right now, but I don't know for two weeks. It's 2, and TBD. Just the things like getting my hair done, going to a rodeo, possibly having a parasite, but it's a normal week here in Ohio. That's about it. All right, it's time for fandom news. Jamie Roy and Harriet Slater attended the Goodwood Festival of Speed as guests of Cartier this past week in West Sussex, England. Joey Phillips has been posting the most stunning photos from his holiday to Norway. It looks like paradise there. Lauren Lyle and Caitlin O'Reyan, who share a birthday, both celebrated this past week, a love scene that so many of the cast still stay close as spotted Izzy and John both in town with the birthday girls. This coming weekend is Highlanders 9 in Birmingham, England and dates for next year's final Highlanders event were announced and I believe it's happening in March. So that's it this week in fandom news. Today on the podcast, we have the absolute privilege of chatting with Merrill Davis. Whenever we think of the heart of Outlander, Merrill is honestly one of the very first people who comes to mind. She's been with the series since the very beginning as executive producer of Outlander and Now Blood of My Blood, helping bring Diana Gowaldon's incredible world to live for more than a decade and we can't wait to hear about it. Welcome to the podcast, Merrill. Oh, thank you. I'm so glad to be here. We're so glad to be here. Yeah. Dream guest for sure. Dream guest. All right. Well, we always love to start at the beginning. So before television, before Outlander, what was young, Merrill, like, Jess has a note that at one point you thought professional soccer might be in your future before finding your way into television. So can you take us through that journey of the starting point to becoming the executive producer of Outlander? I mean, when I was a kid, I think I love television and probably more than movies, although I love movies too. I think I wanted to work in TV in some way, but it was a time when you just didn't weren't aware of what was out there. I think now it's like, it's so easy to access what careers might be. So I was a theater major, which I doesn't really necessarily translate, because I don't think I was even aware there were film schools or if there were, I was aware. I think I thought that was more for directing. And I was not that was not a path I was looking at. So I actually out of college was looking for a job and a friend of mine from college had worked with someone who'd worked on Star Trek. And I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. And I applied for a PA position. And they called and said, actually, we're going to offer it to somebody else. But then 30 minutes later, they called back and said, that person passed. Would you still be interested? And I was like, of course. So I actually started my career at Star Trek. And that's actually how I met Ron. We I was a PA for a little under a year. And then they had this rule at Star Trek that you could not be a PA longer than a year. So once I was getting close to that year mark, I started to stress out about what I was going to do next. And actually Ron had an assistant position open. So I went to work for him. I worked for him for three months. And then subsequently worked for other people at Star Trek. Very Howard and amazing producer and Rick Berman, who was the show runner. And I stayed there for four years, I think, maybe more. And it was amazing. Star Trek was such an amazing place to learn everything. We used to ride bikes around a lot. It was really fabulous. But there wasn't a lot of potential for moving up in the company because it had such job logging Jevety there. No one left because every show went for seven years. It wasn't even a question. It just next gen went for seven years deep space, Voyager, at least. And I wasn't sure what I was going to do. And I had played soccer all my life. And I thought, oh, I'm going to do something crazy and try out for a professional soccer team. I got an invitation to try out for the Boston team. And I ended up moving to Portland where my parents were and training. And I got invited to try out for the Boston team. And after the training and two days before I was supposed to leave for that, for that try out, I blew up my knee. So that kind of ended any career. But I had left Star Trek and I just, you know, I ended up running into Ron and a party later, a couple years later and started working with him again on Carnival. That's kind of where it set back me back on the path with Ron. But I don't know. I've just always been attracted to TV. I've just always loved it as a medium. And, you know, I love to read. I love watching TV who doesn't. That's kind of how my past started. It's kind of unusual, but I feel like everyone's past are kind of unusual in that way. Yeah, that's incredible. So a lot of it was like learning on the job then, like so it wasn't like. Yeah, 100%. I mean, I'm training, I guess. And I picked up a lot at Star Trek, actually. I think my background feels like it started in production and it's been based in the writers rooms. I've always been connected to the writers rooms. First of all, through Ron, although at Star Trek, I wasn't, I didn't get to sit in on the room or anything like that. But since then, I've just always, and part of it is just as a producing partner with Ron, I'm obviously connected to the writers room for every show he does. But I just, that's just kind of where I'm comfortable, but I did come up through production. So I kind of learned as I went. You know, I've often thought it would have been interesting to come up through an agency, like, you know, one of the talent agencies, just because I think you get a lot of connections there. But I've, yeah, kind of learned more hands-on and just kind of had to figure out what my position entails. Yeah, I feel like that's the best kind of training though, you know? Okay, so we've heard that Matt was the one that introduced you to the books. So how did it go from you getting to see him? series from Matt to it becoming the television phenomenon that it is today. Well, Matt did introduce me to the books. I met Matt when he was working on Law and Order and we had Ron and I were working on Battlestar Galactica at the time and our offices were right across the hall from Matt and I was looking for things to develop and he said, "Oh, I think you'd really like these books." And I did and I mean, I loved them and I kind of read them all very quickly. And I was at a dinner with Ron and his wife, Terry, and we were talking just generally about business. And then I just brought up that there were these books that I really wanted to do and I thought it would be great for us. And I mentioned Outlander and Terry had heard of them obviously because she'd read them and she loved them. And so we started talking and chattering about it. And then I was able to get a meeting for me and Ron to go meet with the person who had the rights of the time and gentlemen named Jim Colbert. We went in, we had a great meeting, but he really wanted to do Outlander as a film or several films. And when we walked out of the meeting, I said, "Darron, these can't be films. They have to be TV show." This has to be a TV show. I just, you can't possibly get all of the, you know, those books into like two movies. I mean, it just didn't seem that satisfying. So we kind of reluctantly walked away from the project. But I kept checking back in just because I was like, I didn't totally want to let it go. So I'd check in with Jim every once in a while to be like, "What's happening? Are you guys thinking any chance you'd be interested in doing TV?" And one of the times I checked in, he was and then kind of we went from there and then we pitched it all over town. We would walk in and we'd have like the stack of books, you know, we put the stack of books down on the table, which at that time I think there were only six books out. But it still was like a pretty impressive stack. And I will tell you what a lot of places had interest, but stars was the only place when we would went in. Not only had several execs read the books or read at least one of the books, but there was only place that kind of encouraged us to stay with the books, as opposed to some places where like, well, surely you're going to make changes and make it different. Like from the outset, which I think was a bit of a turn off for us because surely you have to make changes in any book to screen adaptation. But I felt like stars was the only one that was just really into it and understood this concept and really wanted to embrace it and was it already encouraging us to do something different from the start. And we've just had such a wonderful time there. I mean, Karen Bailey, who's one of our execs, who I've worked with since day one has been such a champion. Same at Sony, you know, Chris Parnell, originally, who champion this for us. And then John Westfall, who's been my kind of counterpart to Karen Bailey has been, it's been a really lovely team. Wow. That's great. That's amazing. I love that there are support to, you know, stick to the stick to what you already knew was good. That's really cool. We know executive producer can mean different things depending on the show. So what would you say your role has actually looked like on Outlander over these last 11 plus years? I kind of do a lot of different things. I mean, I think that's one of the things I love about my job. I usually oversee casting. You know, less so as years went on, but I'm usually like a liaison between the writer's office and the studio network. I interact with costumes, you know, art department, certainly in the beginning. Help out in terms of hiring all the department heads. And then we go, it's kind of morphs. I mean, every day is something different, you know, certainly interacting with actors, interacting with the writer's room. In the beginning, certainly the first few seasons I sat in on the writer's room. As the seasons went on, it became kind of harder to do that because we were also in Scotland, quite a bit. And then I want to set it's just kind of keeping an eye on a lot of different things. I mean, thankfully we hire a lot of amazing people who, you know, do a great job. So for me, it's, I'm kind of involved in a lot of different departments and a lot of different things and and touching base with the studio network constantly watching cuts, reading scripts, giving notes, waiting. So it can look a lot of different ways. I know there's a lot of producers on the show. Most of them are writers. There aren't as many I think in industry non writing. EPs, but I think more and more that's starting to happen. So had you been to Scotland before all of this began or are you in love with Scotland. Now the way we are. I had never been to Scotland and actually I was kind of thrilled that we shot it. It was so unusual because when I came up in the business, it was so typical to have like Vancouver, um, standing in for Scotland or Vancouver standing in for Boston or so many other places standing in for other places that I never worked on a show. I don't think that actually filmed in the place. It actually was taking place in. And I remember we went on a scout to Scotland and I just thought how magical this place was. Although it's funny when we first got there. We landed in Glasgow and it was not at all what I imagine like we were in the city first before we went out to look at the castles and everything else and I was like, this doesn't look like what I imagined Scotland was. And then when we went to Edinburgh, I was like, oh, this is there's a castle in the middle of the city. This is what it looks like. But I have to tell you I've really grown to I fell in love with Glasgow. I just that's kind of where I was based and I just love the people. I mean, I love Edinburgh. I love all of Scotland, but I think Glasgow kind of has my heart in terms of the cities there. But I love Scotland. It's been such a wonderful amazing journey to be there to meet everyone there to I mean, I love that country. I was rooting for them in the World Cup. I mean, I just I it does have my heart and I think it's such a special place. Yeah, for sure. I think I need to give Glasgow a second chance because I went to Edinburgh first and then to Glasgow and I mean, like going from there to it's like, yeah, long, long. Well, that's true. I think it's just like lived in Glasgow. I never lived in Edinburgh. So I think there's just something about when you live in a city, you just know it better. But Edinburgh definitely is more of what you imagine at all Scotland must look like. Yeah, like a definitely. Well said. Okay, so I know you said you're not like, you're not the writer for it, but like going into each new season, were you prepping, were you like reading the books and like flagging storylines that you're like, these definitely need to be under the fans are going to riot or, you know, were you involved in that way. I always reread the book, the current whatever book that season is going to cover I always reread it for the season. I mean, I'm sure the writers feel like I'm kind of a pain in the ass because I am always I think the writers do too, but I think when you don't when you're not necessarily when you're sitting in the room every day and you're discussing how things connect. You're in it and you kind of understand the decisions that go into making the decision to leave something out or including something or how it all goes together. It's the easiest job in the world is coming in after the fact and poking holes at what the writers have done. Because you're not necessarily sitting there all day every day. I mean, I was more in the beginning doing that, but I always have thoughts and feelings about it and you know, I think in the beginning. I, you know, Ron and I to butt heads a little bit because I think early days, I just went in with such a fan girl perspective about what I wanted to see from the books and, you know, maybe wasn't looking at the whole thing in terms of how a story had to lay out and, and, you know, the character stuff and everything else. And over the years, I think I've had to really try to put both a producer add on and a fan hat on and try to, you know, make sure those two fit together. But I think we all bring to it our own kind of loves from the book and things maybe we don't love as much, you know, everyone who is in that room has read the book and we all have the parts that are our favorites and parts maybe we don't love as much. I think it makes an interesting blend of people, but I always like to weigh in and, you know, and bring my point of view and, and, you know, I have such a love for the books and, you know, I just am deeply connected to it in a way that we've hard for me to be totally hands off. But once again, I think they've done such a great job putting things together. It's not always easy. I know, you know, some seasons are more beloved than others. And I get that, but I think sometimes when you're in it, it's a different perspective than when you're outside, you know, looking in and trying to figure out what you would do. For sure. Wow. And then I'm sure there's also like those story lines that's like, I would really love to put that in, but like, how could we do that? Like it, you know, just like limitations or whatever. So speaking of some of those story lines, are there any that you wish you would have had a little more time to wrap up or expand upon just little or. I think it's so hard. I think there's so many over the years that we all have wanted to maybe expand on include. But it's hard when you only have a limited number of episodes. I just, the first thing that comes to mind just from the most recent season is, you know, I love the Jenny storyline and, you know, and where Claire and Jenny like kidnap howl. And I mean, there was that whole thing that we didn't include. Was it the most important storyline? No. You know, the reasons we didn't include it. And it's once again, it's not integral to the story necessarily. But, you know, there's so many things like that that start to drop out just because you don't have time. You can't include it. There might be actor availability. So I think it's an impossible question because yes, I would have liked to include all the books and all the things. You know, the only thing from the last book I would say I didn't love and I'm happy to throw this out is the John Cinnamon story. I didn't, it wasn't my favorite thing. I didn't think it, I don't know if something's going to happen in book 10 that will circle back and close that out. But that wasn't one that I was really attached to. Yeah. I've got to ask and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. Obviously, there was controversy over the adding in the faith storyline or whatever. I personally didn't have, Sarah and I didn't really have a huge problem with it. I thought it was fine. But what we didn't get closure on is just like why Master Raymond took faith and never returned her. Do you feel like you wish you could have like maybe wrapped that up a little bit more? I think we purposely did it. You thought you'd want to wrap it up. Well, I'll tell you why and I'm glad you asked about the faith storyline because everyone's like up in arms about, I can't believe you had this faith, not possible. She's dead. It's not possible that this happened. But I'm like, did I read a different book than everybody? Did I have a book? Is that right? I clearly read in a Diana book that Fanny had a locket that said faith on it and had pictures in there and we don't know it is. And I can't say too much also because I obviously don't have spoken to Diana about certain things. But it's so obvious to me that faith didn't die. I don't know how Diana is going to wrap it up, but it is obvious to me that Fanny is their grandchild that faith didn't die. I don't think faith is currently alive in the current story. I think she did die somewhere a long way. And Diana, I think, has said as much somewhere. I'd have to look back. So I think people thinking that this is a crazy storyline have not read the books carefully. Because I'm like, that's clearly where Diana is going. Now granted, I don't know why Diana is going to, how she's going to wrap it up. But I think we did the best version of trying to wrap that up for us and not wanting to step on where Diana is going. We did the version that we were like, this is how we would have imagined it might have happened that faith was alive, that faith didn't die. I think Diana is going there. I'm not going to say for certain that I know that she has not told me. But I think in book 10, she is going to, we're going to see how that happened. Now if she changes her mind because she's seen the reaction, and she feels like, oh, something, I mean, that's a funny thing though. It's like, yes, there were people who didn't like it. But I also have a lot of people who were like, I love the faith storyline. So I think that's the problem. You have so many people online that are summer loud, summer not loud. But I think, I have just in many people who said to me, I love the faith storyline as I have people who are like, I didn't like the faith storyline, not possible at all. I do think we will see in whenever book 10 comes out that she is going to reveal that faith is alive. And once again, if she decides to change that because, you know, which I doubt she would, because I feel like Diana doesn't normally change things based on any sort of reaction. Right. And she said that before. Yeah. So you heard it here first, folks. I mean, I think that's what we're going. I feel like it was so obvious when Fanny had the faith lock it on that, I mean, what is the quint, what kind of a quince sense that Fanny's mom was named Faith and that she had this story. I just, I feel like it's crazy that we're not going to see that. I actually told, I actually told Jess, and maybe this is speaking a little out of turn. I don't, I don't even know. But we didn't, it didn't make sense to me until the very last five minutes of the finale. I was like, oh, the faith storyline and her like being brought back like that was significant because it happened, you know, depending on how you interpret the finale. But I mean, it had something to do with it. We just didn't know it until the last episode. So that was my interpretation of it all. But yeah, do you mean because like, it was shown that Jamie died a whole day, night, whatever past. And it's like, because people were saying, well, how could she be come back after she was, we watched her for the whole day, you know, right? It's more than one instance. Yeah, it's more than one instance. Yeah, sorry, what you saying? Well, Jamie, in the book, Jamie's dead for like five days is something crazy. It's something insanely crazy like four days. And I think that's the other thing about Outlander. There is magic in these books. There is kind of stretching corduility, but in a way that works. And, you know, I think when Matt says that he doesn't want to explain the finale to people, and I'm more than happy to tell people what I think. But when he says he doesn't want to explain the finale, I get that because he wants that magic to exist. He wants people to have something to talk about to imagine what they think happened. And I mean, personally, I thought it was a really beautiful ending. And it was also a way to end it where we didn't want to end it with them sitting on the porch, you know, it just felt like we want that magic of what happened. Where are they? What are they doing? Could this continue? I don't know. And the blue light, and however Diane is going to explain it in her books, we don't know how it totally works, but we also don't know how to try and travel to totally. Exactly. We're trying to apply logic to things that we can't explain. So totally get it. Can I ask one question about the blue light while we have you? So why was it so small? Why did the choice not make the whole screen blue? It was a search for it. It was funny because I actually thought it was so obvious in a way that I don't know, blue light is tough because you don't want to. And we certainly applied it to earlier scenes like with the twins being born. I think sometimes blue light can look a little not cheesy, but I think you also don't want it to be woo, woo, time travel. I think the thing that's worked about Outlander that we all love is it's very grounded. Yes, it's a show about time travel, but you wanted to feel believable. And we're always looking ways to apply the themes of the book and what's happening in a way that's believable and grounded and that you're not pulled out by it. And I don't think we wanted it to be like in your face. We write it dot-o. Settle. Things you need to go back and look for it. So. Yeah. So cool. Sarah's convinced they could never go back to the bridge to live a normal life because everyone saw Jamie. I don't know. I don't know. I think they haven't. Yeah. Yeah. So after the finale episode, we got that beautiful post credit scene in the recreated Poisoned Pin bookstore with you and so many other familiar faces. How did that idea come about and what did filming that moment kind of mean to you personally? That was a matte idea. I think he wanted some way to figure out how to bring it all back to Diana and pay tribute to her in some way and to thank her for this book and for giving us a series. And so we had this idea of, you know, what if this was all from the imagination of Diana that she obviously was, but that she pulled inspiration from Claire's diary that she had put down and written their story. And kind of that fun connection and he pitched it to Diana and was like, would you be up for being in it and she was thrilled and excited about it. And it was just, it was not only that, but I think also he was looking for a way to pay tribute to our crew. Everyone in that scene. We couldn't include everyone because it just would have been too massive, but everyone in that scene came from my department. And I think this one or two people came from a department that represented people who had been on the show since the beginning and had not left it all that had been there kind of all the way through. And so it was both a tribute to that, a tribute to Diana and just also for our crew is so amazing. And I think it was kind of a thank you and a love letter to them and a fun thing. And you know, we asked Katrina to direct it, which also seemed like a full circle moment. So I think for us, it was just a whole host of Easter eggs and thank you's and tributes. The people we love and respect and kind of a fun moment that we all can have. It was fun to dig for the Easter eggs like the book. titles and all the differences on those so fun. And I think the art department did such a great job and had so much fun like figuring out titles for people on so it was fun. Yeah. That's really how cool. You guys are so good at that, the Easter eggs. And we talked about that a little bit with you on the carpet for the blood of my blood premiere. And you were like, you know, it's not in your face, but if you're watching for it, you'll see. And that's a special skill that you all have there. So cool. All right. Well, we are going to ask you a set of rapid fire questions. These-- You don't have to be rapid. No one ever is. It's a joke. We call them rapid, but no one ever is rapid about it. So take your time. But yeah, no right answers. Just say what comes to mind. The first one is, what is your favorite comfort TV show? Oh. Probably-- I mean, friends are the West Wing, honestly. I've seen them all a million times. So I'd say one of those two shows. Friends is a popular answer for that. Yes. I do. I reference that show a lot. All right. If you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be? I mean, I eat this every day, but it's probably peanut butters-- peanut butter with bananas on toast. So I eat that every single day. Wow. Nice. What kind of toast? Couldn't be anything. It could be a bagel toast, sourdough, some kind of a little wheat. A tucking. I love-- All of it. Oh, yeah. It's great. Who are your top three favorite musical artists? Oh god. This is a tough one because I have the cheesiest taste in music. I mean, I'm a well-known fan of those. So I don't know if I have top three. I mean, right now, I'm really into Taylor Swift with my kids. So Taylor Swift right now, I love Chris Cornell, which is kind of a random one, but I love the sound of his voice. I love-- God, it's third. There's so many. I'm going to throw Barbara Streisand in there. I mean, she has the most magnificent voice. So yeah, there you go. Love it. I'd range. OK. If you could travel anywhere in the world, where would you go? I'd love to go to-- I mean, now that I've been to Scotland, I'd love to go to Japan. Oh, fun. Awesome. All right, what song gets you out on the dance floor? Oh god. I'm bad at thinking of song titles, but you know what? I'm so partial. Anything looks like disco, 80s, 70s. Anything with a good beat. I mean, I don't-- what gets me on the dance floor more is probably a now-callag-bib, but I'm not the first one on the dance floor. Let's get to it. It just gets you the courage. Which, speaking of your drink order, that's our next question. What do you-- what's your preferred drink in-- we're talking coffee, alcohol, or both. What's your own? I prefer non-alcohol beverage, is on Arnold Palmer. That's my absolute all-time favorite drink. If I'm going to drink alcohol, probably gin tonic. Nice. With Hendrix, which is Scotland-based. Julie. OK. Do you have a go-to coffee order? Do you like to try this one? I like that. Well, my go-to coffee order is something that tastes closest to coffee ice cream. But that's how I like-- like people who drink coffee black just don't understand how that's possible. I don't-- I do love a chai tea, so I will do like a chai tea with a shot of espresso, which is quite nice. Oh, nice. I believe so. Do you collect anything? No, I'm not a collector. I wish I did. I feel like I wish I had a hobby or a collection. I don't. No, not a collector. All right. If you could have dinner with any famous person, living or dead, who would it be? Oh, that kind of goes right there to the music one. That's so hard. God, who would I want to meet? I don't know. I mean, I don't know why I'm throwing this out of the top, but I'd love to meet Obama, especially where we are right now. I just-- I don't know how I'd love to sit down with him. He seems so interesting, and I just love the way he talks. He's such a great orator. Yeah, I'm going to go Obama. He seems chill, too. Oh, my God. I seem so fun, too. Yeah, he really does. All right. If you had to give a five-minute TED talk on any subject, what would it be about? I don't know if I'm-- I don't know if I'm expressing it around with these questions. No, no. I don't know if I'm proficient enough in any subject to give a TED talk. God, maybe I'd talk about-- I don't know, parenting, by stage in life. Maybe I'd talk about parenting. And actually, that's what I give a TED talk about, about trying to balance parenthood and work life. The parent works-- life balance. I would be tuning into that one. I'm a little expert. I just-- Yeah. We've talked a bit about that on the podcast, especially with Maria DeWelkin and she was talking about that balance and stuff. So it's really interesting. OK. Last rapid fire. If you would get a TED 2 that symbolized your time of working on Outlander, what would it be of? A, I would never get a TED 2. I would know this for a fact. I'm never getting a TED 2, I don't think. But, well, if I was going to get one thing, that is a good question, because there are so many cool symbols. But-- And I don't like the fissile to me that's just too-- I think they call it shortbread tin in Scotland when it seems slightly cheesy, although no offense to anyone who has a fissile. Yeah. Working that off my list. Merrill judges the fissile tattoo. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm no, I'm going to get a hate mail about this. You will not. No, no, no. It's very broad. It's very broad. Yes. I don't know. I mean, did you just we pray one? But that's very-- just Jamie focused. That is a good question. I have to think about that. I don't know, actually. Yeah, I want to find something lovely. I mean, we have all the things we have on our-- the front of our scripts, but it's like a clock, and it's got a sword through it. Yeah, I don't think about that. I don't know. I don't have an answer. Was-- can you tell us a bit about that, like the clock with the sword through it? Is that just something? Is that-- It's just about time travel and Scotland. And I don't know if you guys have seen that on our-- that's kind of like our official, what we have on our scripts and stuff. It's a combination, I think, my gun put it together, or maybe it was Gary Steele. I don't remember which overlapping production-- excuse me, production designer. But it just is meshing the two ideas of time travel in Scotland, so Claire and Jamie. Cool. I love that. A really cool one. That would be-- Yeah. That's pretty special. I think I've seen it on like jackets, sir. Yeah, we have it on jackets and all the swag that we give is like rep season gifts. Nice. Thanks for expanding on that a little bit. That's really cool. So we get asked all the time whether we'll continue the podcast now that Outlander has inded, but honestly, it never really fills over. We have obviously blood and my blood season two to look forward to, maybe more seasons of that, maybe additional spinoffs, delusional hopes and dreams of a movie after Voxan has been released. Does it fill that way for you, too, that it'll never truly be over? And what does it mean to be part of a story that fans simply refuse to let in? I do feel like it will never be over. And I think in some ways, it's really nice. I think when season eight ended, I was kind of emotionally exhausted. And actually when Katrina Sam Mattin, I did the final run up of press for the finale. I just felt myself kind of compartmentalizing the Outlander of it all in a box and putting it to the side. I think because I was so emotionally exhausted after season eight, filming ended. But I never really dealt with the ending. And I never put out a final post. I don't think on Instagram. And even as we wrapped, I was very emotional again, but I just feel like I haven't really put it to rest because I do think it's never going to end. I do think it's always there. And I don't think I've processed the end yet because it has been such a big part of our lives for so long. And in so many ways, I don't want it to end. I want it to continue. And there are things we're talking about and certainly blood of my blood is an active thing right now that we're talking about. So in that way, it also expands. But I think even just the mothership, the original, I think that does feel like it's still going. It's just like there's still putting out content about it and we're still talking about it. And I love that. So I mean, in some ways, I haven't dealt with the end yet. And I think part of me is part of that is because it hasn't ended. And it's never going to end. And I know I kind of love that. I just think, hopefully we will do something in the future, but I also love that it's still a thing we all want to talk about. Yeah. Even you bringing up friends earlier, it's like how long ago has that-- Yeah, that end and people are still watching it. People are still going to fan conventions and all the things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hopefully we continue. So speaking of blood and my blood, where did that idea first begin? And at what point did you realize that there were more stories from that universe that you wanted to tell? Well, I think we've talked for a while about, okay, what's the next? You know, we've tried to do Lord John. It has not gotten yet. And I have high hopes. Hope springs eternal to our Bob phrase for Lord John as well. But we've always, the prequel seem like an easy one to do. It's kind of an obvious one and so fun to tie in like what happened to, you know, at first obviously we were just thinking about Jamie's parents. And it felt kind of straightforward. But it was missing that kind of special sauce that I think is outlander. And that was working on the idea. And he came to me at one point and said, I have an idea, what if we, what if Claire's parents never died? Like what if they said they'd done a cart crash, but actually they time traveled. And I was like, oh my God, that's a so obvious. But like, of course they didn't die in a cart crash. Like you never hear about them again. And I was like, oh, that's brilliant because it's a spin on it. I don't think you don't want to recreate Jamie Claire. Like Jamie Claire special they're in their own way. But it's fun to have two couples this time, two couples that are unique, but different than Jamie and Claire, but also have their kind of own special relationship magic. And it just kind of opened things up suddenly. And it just went from, oh, interesting idea. Let's do a prequel about Jamie's parents to, oh my God, this is, okay, it opens it up. It opens up the stories we can tell because I think with Jamie's parents, we know the whole story. Like we know exactly what happens to Jamie and Jamie's parents. And, but adding in Claire's parents, like anything can happen. We can do anything. Like we can take them anywhere. We know obviously we can't have them necessarily meet Claire, but it just opened up a world of possibilities. So, was that scary stepping into a new territory like that knowing, I mean, Diana didn't write obviously Claire's parents and people are, some people, some book readers have problems with that. Yeah. Yeah, did that feel, did that feel scary or do you just like, I mean, I love having the books to go off of. But I do find sometimes it doesn't let you adapt it in a different way. Like I love Outlander. I would have loved to have done all the books, all the stories and keep going. But it's also exciting to have a new chapter where we, we're not constrained by the books necessarily. And constrained sounds negative. I loved having the books as kind of a North Star. And I know the writers did too and there was so much amazing stuff that Diana put in. But this gives the writers a little more freedom to be like, what if we did this and went down a different path and explore different options? Also, you know, Diana was very excited and very encouraging of this when Matt pitched her the story. For exact words were when we talked about Claire's parents were, she said, that's brilliant. She goes, I love it. She goes, I didn't want to do it, but I love it. She has no interest in Claire's parents, like no interest. They won't speak to her. She's, she doesn't, to her they're dead. And I love that and I respect that. But I love that she was very open though to saying that's a brilliant idea. Go with it. It's not like I want to do, but you know, have fun. So, um, to me, I just think it's exciting because for the first time, I don't know what's going to happen. Whereas in Outlander, I knew what was going to happen. And it was just like, okay, how are we going to tell it? How are we going to keep it fresh? How are we going to do it in a way that's, you know, still exciting for everybody? And I look forward to those 10 pull moments and we knew what you're going to do. But this is like a new challenge. It's like, you don't have anything really. You have some breadcrumbs that Diana left in the books, but now we can do anything. So it's also very exciting. Well, I think it's, it's the same with Outlander, like you guys have said, like, yes, we have the story, but also this is an interpretation. We might not always follow what she says. So it's the same thing. Just people need to remember that both are adaptations and yeah, we've heard so many funny stories from the actors over the years. Is there one behind the scenes story that still makes you laugh every time you think about it? I think for a second because I've told like our whiskey taste in story, I think. Oh, I love that whiskey tasting story from season, that's like season one. Yes, season one. But I love that story. Most people have probably heard it. So maybe that's what I mean. If you want to retell it, you can't. I think that's the funny one of my favorite stories ever. So I've heard it from different perspectives. Yeah, anything else. Well, I can tell that because I haven't thought I should have come prepared with a story. So you're fine. I mean, I don't know if I'm proud of this story because I don't think it shows me in the best producer light. But I was also this was season one, Merrill producer versus season eight, Merrill producer. So I learned a lot along the way. But you know, in season one, we all decide to have a whiskey tasting at Graham, McTavish's house. And I think for some reason, Matt and I were the only producers there. I think I was there and Matt was covering a block. So I don't think any other producers were there at the time. And so we all went out to dinner a lot of the cast. Matt myself went to dinner in Edinburgh. And then afterwards went to a whiskey tasting at Graham, McTavish's house. And the next day we had a read through and a read through for anyone who knows this when we all come together and the actors sit and they read two scripts. And the writers and producers gives them a chance to hear how the words sound. And sometimes you make adjustments from lines that don't work. So normally you want to come to that like fresh faced well, having slept well. And we ended up staying way too late at Graham, McTavish's house. Way too much whiskey was consumed. And at the end of the night, I found myself in a taxi with Tobias Menzies and Katrina Ball. And Tobias and I actually ended up putting Katrina to bed. And at the time, I was still very new in Scotland. Maybe I was not as prepared with the military time. But they do their versus just our more A and P.M. So I potentially set Katrina's alarm clock. And potentially. [LAUGHTER] I'm glad you're pleased. I might have set the wrong time for her wake up cold the next morning. So needless to say, she did not wake up on time the next morning. Pretty much had to be dragged out of her house. There were a lot of people sadly who showed up at the read through. Maybe still drunk. Maybe not totally prepared. It might not have been one of my most shiny moments in the future. Once again, as someone who should have been watching out for the cast, as opposed to-- You were off the clock. Intributing. But really, it does. We have some great pictures from that night, like of a four-and-after picture, which I think is really fun. So it was a really fun memory that always makes me sound. That's awesome. I love that. A little bit of a bonding moment. Team bonding. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Which also happened, by the way, when we went to Taylor Swift, which was another high point. I feel like I'm pro-tailor-swift on this podcast. So I actually-- I wore my torture poets necklace. I don't know if you can see it, Maryl. But I was like, I'm going to wear that because we're in a ring, Maryl today. So talk about Taylor all you want. It was so fun. I actually end up taking the cast to this concert. And I really, really wanted to go. And Sophie, who is also a huge Taylor Swift fan, and I said to Sophie, how are we going to get tickets to Taylor Swift? And actually, all huge props go out to Louisa Ragcliffe, who is our amazing publicist. I reached out to her and I said, I want to take the cast to Taylor Swift. How can we make this happen? And she used her magic and was able to find tickets for us. And we went. And it was such a magical night because not everyone in the cast was a Taylor Swift fan. Not everyone was a Swiftie. But everyone really got into it. And it was so emotional, too, like all too well, which is one of my favorite songs of hers. But we all sang it together. And it just took on huge meaning. And not in this song necessarily spoke to our journey on the show, but something about the song and singing along. Like, I started to cry. Several people started to cry. It was a really, really lovely bonding experience and kind of a nice ending to from where we started. And it was really, really fun. I mean, that's a historical tour, even, just to have attended and then sharing it with people that you've gotten to know and work with for so long. I'm sure that that was special. I was actually at that concert. I wasn't at the one that you were at. My friend had gotten tickets, but I was put on the wait list. And then that morning, I should have checked my email sooner. I was actually off the wait list. And I would have been able to get tickets for the same night that you were there if I would have looked at my email sooner. And like, the concert had started. And I just opened my phone and I was like, why didn't I check my phone earlier? The cast. of Outlander is at the concert and we stayed like across from the we could have walked there. Yeah. I was like, I can't believe this, but anyways, it's okay. It wasn't meant to be, but we we thought that was cool that we got to go to. She did go Friday and Sunday night. I did. So I, you know, I know. And Belle was there. I think John Bell went two nights in a row. Like he went with us and then he went the the next night. Yeah. I mean, it's just cool. I loved I love watching. And everyone that we've interviewed on the podcast that went they bring that up and they talk about that being such a fun memory. Like Joey and Charles. Yeah. So very cool. Yeah. Our favorite was Charles singing. Like the video clip they got posted. He's singing like love story at the top of the top. Oh, it's so funny. It's great. Okay. So just to kind of like bring or wrap this up a little bit. One of our favorite things to watch was the footage of everyone's last day on set. And they started putting out those clips. And it was always you and you're always crying. And as the flowers for them. And I just, I think I was sobbing watching all of those together as well. Like so special. And just shows how much you guys meant to each other. And like can you just talk a little bit about like what those final days were like? I know you said a little bit like I mean, obviously they were emotional, but like I would just love to hear a little bit about how it was to say goodbye at the end. Yeah. It was so emotional. But like I said, it was emotional kind of all the way through like, you know, I've said this before too. I our first read through back. We did in the Great Hall. And we because we put the Great Hall back up for Bob. And we decided I would be fun to do a last outlander one in here. I had to wear it all started. And we got all piped in. We had a paper. And I've said this before, but I was seeing next to Sam, which is very unusual. Because normally we have the actors on one side and we sit on the other sides so we can see them. But this time we kind of mixed everyone up. And I was sitting across from Sam and Katrina and Matt. And I was like, oh I'm fine. And then we went down it as soon as it got to Lauren Lyle. And she just started going through all of Marcy's names and said it so proudly that I started to cry. And then Sam started to kind of sniff a little bit inside me. And that started my journey of crying, like my season eight crying journey. I cried so often. And when we said goodbye to everyone, and I usually got to like hand them flowers. And I'm not not emotional. And obviously since becoming a mom, I've become more emotional. But it's not like I cry all the time at the drop of a hat. But I just was so emotional. And I think it's been such a meaningful, wonderful life changing journey this show. Not just career-wise. And career-wise it's certainly so many people I meet are like, I love Outlander. And I love the show. People you just wouldn't expect. It's like you're a dental hygienist or my mom's friend or whoever it might be. It's touched a lot of people. So that's in turn very touching for me. But it's just also just so many things in my life. It was such a growth period as a producer. I became a mom. I just there were so many things that happened. And it was just so emotional. Say goodbye that period in my life. And saying goodbye to each character I think was me saying goodbye to that moment in the show. And yeah, and I've loved the crew. I mean, it's just it really is a family. And we've been through so much together. I mean, I know we talk about the weather a lot. I know people are tired of that. But when you're out in the rain together or you're doing something hard or slogging through the mud, it does bond you. And you know, we've also been lucky enough to do this long enough that we've had that special time to be together for 12 years or whatever it might be. So yeah, it was really, really emotional. And I'm so thankful. I got to be the one to hand people flowers. But I was kind of surprised at every time I teared up every time. I kept thinking, okay, on this one, you know, I've cried it out. I'm not going to cry on this one at every single time. I just water works. So I'll take that prize happily as the person who shed the most tears for sure. It's just because it meant so much to you. So I don't blame you. Watching Katrina take off her wig for the last time we had video. You know, did me in. I was horrible. Yeah. I was thinking of something earlier that I wanted to say if real quick. So because you went to bat for this story and made it into a television series, Sarah and I's lives are completely changed. Like our paths are different because of you. You know what I mean? Like, do you ever think about like the impact? Like, I just wanted to say I just a deep grateful thank you. I wouldn't know her. We wouldn't have this podcast. We wouldn't have gotten the opportunities traveled hosted. I went back to college because I saw Claire go back to college as a mom. I have a different career path because of Claire. Like, and I probably wouldn't have discovered the books without the show because I'm not much of a reader. Like, that's just, and I'm sure you hear stories like that all the time. But yeah, we have friends. We have a community because of it and it really has changed lives. Well, thank you. That's very, I mean, it's so meaningful. And like I said, that to me is more special than, you know, other things about the show. Do I mean, I think that's one of the most special things about this show that it has changed people's lives in some way. And I'm only a small piece of that. Like, do you know what I mean? So many other people have made this show happen and come true and and done amazing work. But I think that that part of it, what you said, that it's changed people's lives or given them passion about something or encourage them to go back to school. I think that's that's the most special thing I think for us. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, we want to be mindful of your time, Merrill. So we just have probably one more question for you. We like to ask every guest if they have a favorite character in episode and why. And then that should be our our last question we can let you go. That's so hard because like asking if you have a favorite child. I know. I was thinking this is hard not to say Jamie and Claire. I don't think I could say one over the other. You know, I just think they're so special. And I think Katrina and Sam were so special and the way they played them. You know, I always say that the characters are like a time share. Like we all own a part of that time share. Like, you know, obviously characters in actors inhabit these characters. But as a producer, I feel like I also contribute to this character in some way, whether that's like a thought I have about the character or maybe a note I give the writers write the words for this character. We're all invested in that character in some way. And Sam Katrina certainly for Jamie and Claire, they're acting it. So they are in the most forward part of that character and they're living it. But it's like we're all invested in it in some way. So it was a long-winded way. I don't know how long was getting back to that. But I think since they are I always talk about Jamie and Claire as they're the center they're the center cog of our wheel. Like everything spokes off of Jamie and Claire. So I would have to say Jamie and Claire, I can't pick just one. And it's hard not to make the wedding episode because not because of the intimacy involved. And you know, I know a lot of people like the wedding episode because you know, it's it's a very elaborate and you know, it's the first time Jamie and Claire intimate and there's something very special about that. But I just think the way Sam and Katrina work together also, there's such an amazing chemistry between them and such a respect between them. And I think that just shows there. And I think that episode is so magic because of that. I obviously love Faith was an amazing episode. I really also love the finale of a series finale. I cried every time I think seeing Claire sob over Jamie's body at the top of that hill. That was rough. That ripped me apart. It is so heart-wrenching and the way the menals, you know, Roger and Youngie and everyone like kneels down. I think Sam is so amazing when he says forgive me. And the way he looks at Claire, there's and the fact that we get to go back and see their life, which also makes me cry. I don't know. There's something about that. It's so sad to be the end, but I just think there's something so special about that too. Yeah, but it's hard. I mean, but Jamie and Claire, I can't pick one. I mean, I think you kind of have to pick both. They come as a unit. So hard separate package deal. For sure. Cool. All right. I got a little lost. I got a lost in my time share analogy, but I think I was just trying to be like, who do we invest in the most? So yeah, love it. Well, so if our listeners would like to follow you on social media to keep up with your projects, where is the best place for them to find you? Instagram because I know longer and really active on Twitter since the Twitter has kind of gone off the rails. So on Twitter, I'm like, what is my can handle? I think I'm still tallship productions and then I'll also have a nightmarrow account. Awesome. Marrow, thank you so much for taking time to talk to us today and let us get to know you a little bit better. We look forward to hearing more from you and seeing what else comes from, you know, blood and my blood in the Outlander universe. And thanks again for everything that you've done to bring this show to life. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. We're so grateful. Thank you. If you haven't already, make sure to give us a follow on Instagram and Facebook @Drawtlanderdirees podcast and on TikTok @Drawtlanderdireespod. And if you're loving the podcast, we always appreciate your ratings and reviews on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Thanks for listening. Slonja, Sassanax out. [Music]