Engineer's Near Death Experience REVEALED What's Coming (NDE)

And now, from beyond our dimension, this is the Jeff Mura Vodgas. Here's Jeff. My guests are Steve and Kathy Boyles. Steve had a near-death experience and Kathy, his wife, who happens to be a physician, witnessed the medical side of the story. Steve and Kathy, thanks for joining us today and welcome. Thank you for having us. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Well, Steve, let's start on the day that you had this experience and go from there. Sure. Well, it happened. I actually went into the hospital on December 9th of 2021. And I had gone in with COVID. I had been on some medicine that Kathy had given me and everybody was getting better. And I got to the point where I thought, okay, I'm done. I don't need it anymore. So I stopped. And then I had, turns out, I started going downhill after that. So I got to the point where Kathy decided that she needed to take me to the emergency room and get me see what they could do for me. So I went into the emergency room. My daughter came with me and they basically told her, you've got to leave. You can't go in. So then I was just kind of stuck there by myself and my daughter had to tell Kathy that mom we can't go in. And so I was having a hard time breathing. They finally put me, gave me some oxygen, took me up to my ICU room. And then I was there for about four or five days before they actually put me on a ventilator. I didn't have a lot to eat. In fact, the only thing I had to eat was a couple of insured drinks a couple of times a day. And that's not good food. And then they basically, through some circumstances, decided that I needed to be on a ventilator. And they said, and I actually thought I was doing okay, getting much better. But they said that the ventilator would help me recover faster and I would only be on it for like seven or eight days. And then they'd take me off of it and I could go home. And I thought, well, at that point in time, I was getting really desperate to get out of there because he likes laying in a bed in a hospital. They wouldn't let me get out of bed. So it was not a fun experience. And I thought, okay, I'll do whatever it takes to get out of here. And then that's when I ended up having my, they put me on the ventilator, knocked me out. I was in a coma and paralyzed for like, I don't know, three weeks, a little over three weeks. And that's when I had my experience. He was on the ventilator for a total of 45 days, but about three weeks at that time. He was in that medically induced coma. >> Yeah. So while in the coma, of course, you know, your spirit man never sleeps. Your body may go to sleep, but my spirit stays awake. So in the spirit realm, an angel comes to me and says, Salon Steve, my name is Marzucca. You spill that M-A-R-Z-U-K-A and I'm here to take you to heaven for a short time while your body heals. I just like, okay, that sounds like a good deal to me. I'm going to go to heaven. He said it's for a short time. So I'm going to be coming back. So I get to see, get a preview of what heaven's going to be like. So anyway, my spirit man raises up from my body. And Marzucca and I start going through the building, through the atmosphere. And then about, I don't know, it seems like you could see a lot of stuff. But I'm sure it only happened very quickly. We were almost instantly in heaven. So I got to see, so when you got to understand that your spirit, your vision in the spirit realm is much broader than your natural eyes. So when we were going through space, I saw visions and scenes of stuff you might see in a Hubble Space Telescope or James Webb Space Telescope. It was just incredible. And then I got to heaven and landed on this most amazing plush green grass that you walk on it just brings right back up. It's alive. It just doesn't, you could probably stop on it and it wouldn't hurt it. You could sleep on it and you could probably think you'd have the best night sleeper you've ever had. And we went into this building, which I always kind of describe as a welcoming center because there was a guy behind this very ornate desk kind of curved. And he said, welcome to heaven, Steve. Marzook is going to be your guide and he's going to show you the things that you need to see. And there were some scenes on the wall that I noticed about some what they were, but I didn't really make a connection with them. And it turned out that those four scenes that he showed me were places that I visited in heaven. I kind of figured that out after going in seeing a lot of the things that I saw. So anyway, one of the first places we saw, we walked out, walked a little ways and we were in this big meadow area. And the meadow was again full of this just beautiful grass and everything's nice and trimmed. You know, there's no weeds, there's no, you know, unsightly places in heaven. It's all well manicured because it just is perfect. And I saw beds of flowers that had petals with just amazing colors and they were all intertwined colors. It's not like it was a solid red or a solid green or a solid white. They had all these colors that were woven together in this world together in the leaves. And it was just incredible. Had an amazing fragrance that I remember smelling and it was just, it was beautiful. There were these huge trees that were, they were big but they weren't terribly tall but they had big trunks and they had really wide branches that, you know, strung out, you know, 30 or 40 or 50 feet. But they had, there were birds flying in and out of these. There were just, there was a whole bunch of them. I don't know, there was probably 50, 60, 70 of them. But they were all spread out. And so one of the first people that I, well, one of the first things I saw was the dogs that we used to have that we had, that had passed away. And they were all running around in a group and they came towards me and they recognized me and I saw them and they started getting closer and I thought, oh my goodness, those are our dogs. And they came right up to me. They now, they passed away. All of our dogs, we took real good care of but, you know, they get, they get things wrong with them and they, they just get old and wear out and all these dogs look beautiful. They were, they looked like, you know, they were perfect. We had one dog that was, his name was Poppy. He kind of wandered into our garage one day when it was like 110 degrees outside and he just kind of plopped down. He had one eye. He had the other one sun shot. He had, he walked with the badly up. He had a big scar across one of his front legs and, you know, he was just a sweet dog. So we just figured we just keeping because somebody obviously dumped him. And so we took care of him and did the best we could with him. We really don't ever know how old he was or exactly what kind of dog he was because he looked a lot like a great pair of knees, but he was a much smaller version. Anyway, we took care of him and so when he passed away, you know, he was really bad shape. He caught pneumonia. But when I saw him in heaven, he had a full thick coat that was just really lush and smooth and just so fluffy looking. He had both of these eyes. He ran around with the other dogs like perfect, didn't have a limp. You know, it was great. It was wonderful. And all the other dogs said it all passed away and were kind of in bad shape. They all look amazing. They look beautiful. And, you know, and then I started seeing people right after that. I got to play with the dogs for a little while and it was so much fun. It was just like, you know, just like being back at home playing with the dogs. And then one of the first people I saw was my niece. Her name was Beth and she had gotten killed in a car accident about a week before she was supposed to get married, which was a pretty sad thing. And, you know, she looked beautiful. Now, she was about, she was in her mid 20s or so when she passed away. So she looked pretty much normal like she was then. But I'll tell you one thing. Everybody else that I saw, everybody looked like they were between 25 and 30 years old. I saw my parents. They looked very young. I saw Kathy's parents. I saw a friend of mine that I used to work with. He was very young. I saw my grandmother, my mom's mom, and she was very young. You know, so, and I'm, I didn't see a mirror. So I don't really know how I looked, but I felt perfect. I felt amazing. I had, you know, I can tell you that my hair was a little longer because I could kind of feel it kind of on my neck and a little over my ears and everything. But anyway, it was just an amazing experience getting to see these people. I, one of the first guys I, one of the people I used to work with, his name was Gary. And Gary was a rather large, he was tall, but he also a bit overweight. And we had kept telling him, Gary, you need to take care of yourself. You're, you know, lose some weight or whatever, you know, in a nice way. And he never really paid much attention to it. But when I saw him, I said, "Curie, man, how do you?" And you gotta understand, I've never talked to anybody who's actually in heaven. So I'm asking him, I said, "Curie, how do you like it here?" And he goes, "Oh, I love it. It's great." He says, "I can eat whatever I want to and I don't gain any weight." And so for people who like to eat and to have a good taste for food, there's some really good food in heaven. And all of this is good and derishing. It's not gonna get you overweight. So that was pretty amazing. I saw when I was talking to my niece, Beth, I asked her what she did and she goes, "Well, she hangs out with her dad a lot." So that's my brother Ted. And Ted had passed away about six months after we got married. What she was, I grew up with him. We did a lot of things together. And it was pretty tragic when he passed away because he got killed in a car wreck and it was really sudden. And so things like that really are hard to deal with at times. But you have to kind of get through it. But I was so thrilled to see him. And I gave it, we gave each other a big hug. And I said, "Ted, I've missed you so much. You've been gone for about 30 years." And he said, "It feels like I just got here." And he had been there for at least 30 years at the time. So, and he felt like he had just got there. And I can tell you that when I was doing my walking around and going around heaven, I didn't feel like, I didn't have any concept of time. It's just that we just did things. And it's like, it was just, it was pretty amazing experience. - So his experience with amazing, in mine was amazing, but in a not so good way. So the hospital unfortunately did not allow me to see Steve for about 20 days. So, I even though as a physician, I could have gone in and seen any other patient. I couldn't see my own husband for 20 days. I think we all lived through a lot of awful things during COVID and that was one of them. And so I knew as a believer in Jesus, I knew I had to pray. And I knew that there was power in God's word because I have been studying God's word since I was a very little girl. And so I began to take scriptures and pray those scriptures. I would have Steve's nurse face time with his phone and I initially seeing him on the ventilator was very shocking. But I really had to just push through and I knew that I had to stay strong and really strong in the Lord because there wasn't a lot of hope on the medical side. He had a very slim chance of survival, especially when you've been on a ventilator for that long. That is a very long time to be on a ventilator. Most people don't survive even a week or two and he was on it for 45 days. But every single day, I would spend an hour or two on that face time just praying for Steve, speaking scriptures over him and standing in faith. I had one of my dearest friends. He was a really wonderful prayer partner with me during that time and she and her husband spent many hours praying for Steve. We had some other people who also spent a long time praying for Steve. Some of them would wake up during the night and just feel an impression to pray for him. And so we had so much going on down here in the spirit realm while he was experiencing a lot of more, you know, obviously fun things in heaven, but I didn't know that. So just want to encourage people that, you know, even though you go through a very difficult time and difficult struggles, there are things going on in the unseen realm that you don't know about. And there is a way to contact that unseen realm and it really is through the power of God and the Word of God. - So anyway, so trying to remember where to pick up from, but so when I was talking to my brother, Ted, I asked him, I said, "So what do you do when you're up here?" And he said, "Well, a bunch of things." He said, "He hangs out with Beth. They do things together." He goes to a teaching from Paul the Apostle, who does, I guess you call him teachings or, you know, the studies or whatever, but he goes to those and he said, "Well, and I go to baseball games." And I was like, "You go to baseball games?" And he goes, "Yeah, there's actually baseball games "and there's other sports here in heaven." He said, "God is likes to have fun "and he knows we are likes to have fun." So, you know, I can tell you, there's a few things about heaven that you see in a lot of pictures. There's no clouds. Okay, this is my, this is what I saw, and this is what I experienced. So this is just for me, but there's no clouds in heaven. It's perfect conditions the whole time. There's no shadows in heaven. Okay, so that may be really hard for people to understand because you look outside, you see shadows everywhere. But, you know, God is the light of heaven and God is in all places in heaven. And so God has light shining everywhere. So there's no shadows. That may be a little hard for people to wrap their head around. I know it's, when I first saw it, I realized that like just like, yeah, there's no shadows. But God is the light of heaven. And so he was telling me about this baseball game and he said, "Yeah, well, maybe we can go to one." So then I spoke to him a little bit more. And so then Marzucca, my angel, now I'll give you just a little background about Marzucca. He's about 62, well built muscular, had on a white robe with gold trim. And he had a big broad sword across his back that has some very elaborate engravings on the handle. And I had, in one of my conversations with him, I asked him, I said, "So what do you do with your sword?" And he said, "Well, it's first by fighting spiritual battles." And he said, I asked him if I could see part of it. So he took it off his back and he pulled it out of the sheath for a little bit. And these edges actually glowed. And he said, "It will cut through anything. It's very powerful." The only thing it doesn't cut through is the sheath that's on the inside of it. He said, "But it's for spiritual battles." And he told me that he had been my guardian angel since I was conceived, not just since I was born, but since I was conceived. And that he had saved my life more times than I'll ever know. And he told me that he could be as big as he needed to be to protect me. And of course, that's all very comforting to me because I can understand that, yeah, there were some times I wondered how I got out of that one. And now that I can look back at that and then realize, well, I'm sure Marzucco is there, how does he hand in there somewhere, keeping me safe? So anyway, we went a little bit further down this, and the roads in heaven are gold. They're not the kind of yellow gold or that we see here on earth, but they're pure. It's a pure gold. It's almost transparent, but it's very solid. And it's beautiful. The architecture in heaven is amazing. There's just all kind of stuff. And heaven, so the physics in heaven seem to be quite a bit different than the physics on earth. And so you can do things in heaven that you can't do on earth because that's the way God made it. You put things on earth. I think is also just kind of the way heaven should have been except it's deteriorated because of man and the things that we've done. But heaven does not deteriorate. It's pristine and it's been pristine since the day it was created. And so when I say heaven's more real than earth and I've said that a lot, that's kind of what I'm referring to. It's say heaven hasn't deteriorated. It hasn't hadn't gotten old. It still looks brand new. So if you've ever been to Disney World, you've seen them take care of everything and repainting and repairing things every night. Well, they don't have a work crew going around heaven at night time because first off, it's daytime the whole time and it doesn't wear out. So they don't need to just keep making it look nice. It's already nice. So. - Well, on earth we went through quite a bit of ups and downs. And mostly it was down. We get a little bit better. And then he would just crash in almost Bernie at kidney failure. He had three bacterial pneumonia. So on the ventilator he had withdrawal from one of the drugs when they took him off abruptly. That was called fentanyl. He went through just a lot of. What I wanted to call it was joy in heaven and hell on earth because he had the joy in heaven, but I had the hell on earth. we went through. all kinds of awful things. But when I was at one of my lowest points, I, he was having kidney failure and things were looking really awful. They couldn't even do dialysis because he had to spend 16 hours a day on his stomach in a prone position and then they'd flip him and he'd be eight hours a day on his back and so, um, on his stomach, they couldn't do dialysis. And, uh, so we were, you know, it, it looked pretty bad. So I was on the phone with my main prayer warrior, Marilyn. And, uh, at this point in time, because I couldn't go and it was that first 20 days, um, I literally was asking God to send the angels of heaven into his room every single day to protect him because, um, there is an unseen room around us. We don't see it with our natural eyes. Um, second Corinthians 418 tells us about that unseen room. And so as I sent the angels in daily to protect him and to keep, keep him safe, um, the one, that day that I'm on the phone with Marilyn, uh, we're praying and the Lord just gave her a vision of Steve and she said, "Cathy, I see Steve God showing me his room. I can see his room. I can see his bed in the machines and everything." And, uh, I hadn't told her that I was sending those angels to his room every day, but she said, "I see all these angels in his room." And at the door, there are two very large angels on either side of the door. They will not allow any evil into this room. And I just started to cry because I knew that God had answered my prayers. And, you know, we do have a God who will hear us and will answer our prayers. I just want to encourage people to not give up hope and not give up on things that you think might be impossible because God is a God of the impossible. Steve is a miracle and he's living proof of, of, of the miraculous power of God. Yeah. And just a kind of along those lines, I saw my parents and like I said, they both look young, very young. They look, they look great. And my dad passed away. He didn't have a lot of hair left, but when I saw him in heaven, he had a full head of hair. So, just encouragement for people who, who may be losing that hair on the top of their heads, in heaven, will have full heads of hair. But one of the things he told me, he said that, he said, "I'm really glad that people. " And my dad, when I first, you know, when I was growing up, he was really rough around the edges. He, you know, he never, he never went to church or anything like that. And I always kind of wondered about him. But, you know, one of the things he said, he said that, he said, "He was so glad that people continued to pray for him." He said, "Because you may not have seen anything change on the outside, but I was changing on the inside." And that really changed his heart. And, you know, God, God works from the inside out, not necessarily from the outside in. And, you know, we go by what we see a lot of times and we shouldn't judge a book by its cover or a person by their appearance or maybe even by some of their actions. But, you know, our prayers are strong, our prayers are answered. Because first off, God says, if we hear, if he hears, if we pray according to his will, and in this case, his will is he doesn't want to see anyone perish. He wants everyone to be saved. So if we pray for people, you know, God's going to answer that prayer and somehow somewhere, some way, he's going to get that message into those peoples in their heart and their spirit. And they're going to, they're going to, you know, turn around and do the right thing that they need to do to make it to heaven. So anyway, yeah, you got to, you got to accept, I'm preaching here, you got to accept Jesus as you'd learn to save your to get to heaven. So anyway, that's, I'm sticking to it. Oh, well, okay. So I've been in heaven for, I don't know how long I'd been there for doing a lot of stuff. And Marzoca said, he said, well, Steve, are you getting hungry? You've been here for a while to have eaten anything. And I said, well, I don't know. I mean, I guess now that you mentioned it, yeah, I feel like maybe I could use something. So he had this look like a big copper-colored fruit. It was a little bit bigger than an apple, but it was round and copper-colored. So he handed it to me and and I started eating it and it tasted very similar to an apple, but when I got through eating it, and then didn't have any seeds in it, it was just, I just ate the whole thing. And it was delicious. I mean, it had just amazing flavor to it. It was like the best apple flavor I've ever had. And it pretty much momented immediately from eating that, I felt energized. And like I had more energy, I could walk around a lot longer. So, so meals are, you know, I don't know that you have to eat a whole lot in heaven because I think the food is, you know, energized to give you the energy you need. And then he handed me, he kind of turned around and pulled out what I'll call like a vanilla ice cream cone. So I like vanilla. Okay, I'm picky about the vanilla I eat because some of it's good, some of it's not as good. He handed me a vanilla ice cream cone and I said, oh wow, vanilla, I love vanilla. And he goes, yeah, I know. I've been with you since you were a bit around forever with you. So I started eating this thing and it was like amazing. It tasted just incredible. And it didn't melt, you know, I didn't have to sit there and lick it real fast because it was running down the sides or anything like that. I ate the whole thing. It was in like a cone type, something that looked like a cone and it had, you know, it was delicious. So that was pretty incredible. And then gosh, what else? I'm going to kind of go to this one area that we went to. And so we were, we, I went to a lot of places and one of the places I went to were what Marzucca called the Stables of Heaven. And we were walking over down this road and we kind of went over a little ridge and down below us in this area that was lower was this huge complex that had all of these big buildings. And we started getting closer and on the side of these buildings that had pictures of horses that were like they were engraved on the side of the walls. I had, you know, baby horses next to the mother, like they were grazing and then some horses just kind of standing there and other horses were like running, you know, like action poses, that type of thing. And so we got to go inside. And inside these was like these big stalls because these horses we saw were big and they were very strong. And it's kind of a, it's like they had the strength of a Clydesdale, but the the agility and the swiftness of like a thoroughbred horse. But these horses were pure white. They had pure white hooves. The only thing that wasn't white on these is their eyes, which were a deep blue. And they were, they were beautiful. But you know, we were walking along and some of them were being brushed out, some of them were eaten, some of the food in the in the trough, and some of them were snorting and pond, like they were like ready to bust out and get ready to do something. And so so the Marzucco says he said these are the Lord's war horses and and they're preparing for battle. And so you know, we, he shows he goes into one of the stalls and starts talking to an angel who's taking care of this horse and then he comes back out. And then we go outside and when we go outside, there's this huge field. I mean, it's like 15 or 20 football fields wide and there's just thousands of horses on this field. And these horses are all doing what I'll call military maneuvers because I don't know how to describe it. And they had angels riding on them at the time. But in the front of all these horses was Jesus on a horse, just an amazing looking white horse. And he was directing them to tell in kind of emotioning them to do all these different turns and maneuvers. And they were all like ride and stop pressed in just just just exactly like they were moving as one. And got to watch those for a little bit. And it was it was pretty overwhelming because there's just first off the the number of horses was amazing. Their beauty was amazing. It was just this incredible scene. And we got to go back and we went back inside and Marzoca says, I got a treat for you. So we walked to the other end of this stable where we first came in and there were these two white horses waiting for us. I think what had happened is he had talked to the guy in the stable and he let me, he got a couple of horses out for us so we could ride them. And we got up to this horse and it was a big horse. I had a saddle on it, but you know, I'm not used to riding horses. I have many years ago, but I said, so how do I get on this thing? And he said, just think yourself onto the horse. And I did like the next thing I knew I was like sitting on top of this horse. And so then the next thing we start going out these doors and we start going down these trails. And you know, the horse and I could almost think together because I would say or I would think like speed up and it would start going faster, right? So think slow down and it would slow down. You know, if I thought let's turn to the right, it would go to the right or the left. You know, and then if I said, let's go fast, let's go fast, he would like take off and it was pretty incredible. And it was just, it was wild. I mean, I can just, you know, the incredible thing is I can shut my eyes and I can just be right there, almost right there again. And I do that frequently just because like if I'm stuck in traffic and I met a red light that seems like it's wasted, takes me a long time. I'll just kind of like think real quick about what's the fun experience in heaven to kind of think about right now. You know, so it was pretty wild. We got, I got to go to a lot of other places. And so go ahead. - Well, there's that story that we like to share that people are usually really inspired by about 19 years before Steve had his heaven experience. I had had a miscarriage and I was only about four or five weeks pregnant. So, you know, technically I didn't know whether it was a boy or a girl. I felt in my heart that it was a boy though. And so I named the boy Daniel. - And so, Marzook and I were actually heading on our way to the, I didn't know it necessarily at the time that we were heading in the direction of the baseball game. And so I was walking in this little boy, who looked like he was about five or six. Comes up to me, stops right in front of me and says he goes, "Hello, my name's Daniel. I think you're my dad." And I was like, "Whoa!" You know, I was like pretty surprised. And I hadn't really thought a whole lot about that for, you know, since that happened. And I said, "Well, you know, my wife Kathy was gonna have a little baby and we, she thought it was gonna be a boy and we were gonna name him Daniel, but he wasn't able to be born." And he said, "Well, I've been here for a really long time. I've been here since I was very little." And, you know, that like, wow, you know. And so I kind of talked to him and I said, "Well, you know, and he looked kind of a cross between Kathy and I, you know, so I could see some of my features in him. I could see some of her features in him." So it looked, you know, he looks like, he looks like that's my boy. And so I said, "Well, you know, your mom would really love to see you. She's, she's real pretty and he goes, "Yeah, I know I've seen her." And, you know, and I had a couple of people that I talked to like my mom and dad, you know, they were aware of things in honor of it. It's, I don't know how much they see or how much they're aware of. My dad told me when I was talking to him, he said, "You know, you're lucky to be married to such a good wife because she's taken really good care of you down there." And, you know, whether, you know, whether that was because she was praying for me on the spiritual side or trying to take care of me on the medical side, you know, he knew that she was taken care of me. And, you know, so anyway, I got to spend some time with my son and I always wanted a boy just because, you know, I'm a dad, you know, want to have a son, want to be able to do things with him. But I got to have that opportunity in heaven. And I know that when I go back up there, I'll still get to spend more time with him. In fact, probably eternity. So it's just, it was just a, it's an emotional experience for me because I'm going to start thinking about that and got to be careful, I'll start crying. But it was just, it was wonderful. And, you know, can't wait to, I like for it to the day sometime when we can all be together again and get to experience that. But yeah, so anyway, we got to end it up going to the baseball game. So it's me, my brother and my son, Daniel got to sit together at a game baseball in heaven's pretty wild. And I'll just hear a few things here. The dirt, see, there's, there's, people can slide on the ground and the dirt just falls off. People in the grass stains just fall off. It's just kind of weird. You know, you see people sliding in football and baseball and they got dirt and grass stains all over. Well, everything stays clean in heaven. So you don't have to, you don't need washing sheets. Poor dryers or any of that kind of stuff, I suppose. So it was pretty, pretty amazing. And one of the, this, I think, deep differences in why I say physics is different in heaven is that pictures get throw like a corkscrew type pitch where the, it kind of goes like this. And it made it really tough for the batters to even try to get close to hitting it, which was pretty wild. The bases were actually made of gold. They're not just big fluffy pillows. They're actually made of gold. Is an incredible experience. I know that's hard for people to understand, but one thing Marzucca told me he said, people need to expand their concepts of heaven. You know, because he said, you know, God has never stopped creating. And it's going to make us an eternity to see everything God creates. So that is something to be looking forward to because God has quite the imagination. Any questions? - All right. Well, how did you come back? Excuse me. How did you come back? - Well, so when I came back, okay, first off, I got to say that I, one of the last places I got to go visit was the throne room, which was a really amazing experience because it was just, you know, we can have imaginations of what we think a throne room is like for God, but God is, it's pretty incredible. We walked in, first off, there's this like huge building that housed the throne room. And on the sides of the walls of this building were scenes from God's creation. They had a lot of animals, you know, had solar systems, had just all kind of stuff that God had created. And so he, we went inside and these doors just automatically opened. And we walked in and this big archway and this kind of a long, really tall 15 or 20 foot high ceilings had gold and these enormous jewels, like jewels. So I'm saying these are like the size of footballs and grape fruits and watermelon. So I mean, they're huge. I mean, I would have loved to have been able to bring one diamond back, you know, it was like huge. You can live off that for the rest of your life as far as, you know, what it would be worth. But we walked inside and when we walked in, there was kind of a, kind of a red carpet that goes towards the, this platform and this platform had like seven steps to go up to the top of it. And on the top of it were two throes. One of them was God, the father who was just a white light. It was, it was not a figure that I could make out but it was a glowing, a glowing white light. It was a very bright, but it didn't hurt my eyes. And then on the other throne next to him was Jesus next to the father. And Jesus had on a white robe. He had on a purple sash that went across his chest. It went down to about his ankles. And I walked, we were walking in in Marzoca, the angel, knelt down about his head and pushed me forward. And so I'm kind of wondered what's going on and how far to go because I didn't really know the protocol. But I walked to about 10 to 15 steps away from these the stairs go up to the throes. And I stopped and Jesus got up and came down the steps and came right up to me. And he says, I got a couple of things, a couple of pictures I want to show you. So he showed me two pictures of myself. One of them was I'm laying on the ground. I, it's all a black and white type picture. I don't look good. I look really pale. I'm not looking healthy. I'm looking really bad. And so he said, this is you, but you're going to be just fine. And, and then he showed me another picture. And it's the same picture, same pose, except it was all in color. I had color in my face. I looked healthy, but I was still laying down in the same pose. And he said, he said, this is you that you're going to be just fine. And so I gave you a big hug and told me my lump to you. Maybe told me he loved me. And I thanked him for his sacrifice. And then he stepped back and put his hands on my shoulders. And he said, he said, you saw my war horses. And I said, yes, Lord, I did. And he said, they're preparing for battle. And I said, so when is this battle going to happen? And he just said, it's very soon. And so that was, that was pretty much my experience there. And he said, but did I got, work for you to do and I'll tell you what it is at the right time. And so I he's recently told me what that what that work is that I'm supposed to be doing. And so that's what I'm working on now. But when we were, I got up after talking to him after talking to Jesus and I was getting really and Marzyka said, I got to get you back to your body soon because Kathy's going to be waking up and you're going to be waking up and Kathy's going to be sitting there waiting for you. And I said, okay. And I said, we're so we're walking back to this welcome center where we were. Where I first went in. And I said, Marzyka, why you knelt down and push me forward. How come? Well, why didn't you walk up there with me? And he said, God is my master. I am his servant. I serve him. So I bowed out to him. He said, but you are his family. You're covered by the blood of Jesus. You are family to him. And so you get to go boldly up to him and there's no crawling or, or, you know, crawling the God. You get to go boldly right up to him. Well, in book Hebrews, it talks about how we go boldly before the throne room of God. And that made it, that made that verse seem so real and it is so real to me now. So we just have to realize that, you know, God loves us. God is the God of love. And it's the goodness of God that draws men to the repentance. And so, you know, we just need to realize how much God loves us. I think, you know, there is a dark side. It's called, he's called the devil. And you can call him what he wants. But he wants to deceive us because that's the only thing he can do for us is to see us. And if we let ourselves be deceived, I'm not realized what God has in store for us or what God wants us to have, then we'll be deceived. But anyway, so that's how I got back to my body. And the next thing I knew after, after Marzoca told me that I'm not necessarily remembering going back the same way I came, I don't remember seeing every all the outer space stuff. But I was in my body and I woke up and got these sitting there waiting for me. And that was like, you know, I kind of wondered at the time, because I didn't have an immediate remembrance of everything that happened. Because I had been on a lot of drugs. I had been in a coma for, you know, three weeks or a little more. And so I'm just trying to figure out, you know, I start trying to move things around, making sure everything's still working. One of the problems that I ended up having is when they were flipping me on my back and stomach a couple of times a day, is they had put me, they had put my arm underneath my body and I laid on it for like 16 hours, which, you know, did a lot of nerve damage to my forearm and my wrist. And so when I woke up, my right hand would just hang down. I didn't, I had very little use of it. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm right handed. I write software. This is not going to work. I don't know how this is going to work. But I ended up going to, um, hand therapist for, I don't know, 16 month, 14 or 16 months, twice a week, our session that she really got my hand working good. It's back to normal. So it's all, it's all good. So I'm still writing code and doing things. But yeah, it was quite an experience. And like when Kathy, you know, like she said, it was, um, hell on earth for her. Well, when I woke up, I got to join the hell on earth part because that's when I went through the fit, no withdrawals. And that was like one of the lowest parts for me because I thought I'm tired. All right, I could die just like that because I couldn't breathe my heart rate and blood pressure were just almost through the roof. And I'm laying there in bed. I hear a lot of commotion around in the room, but I don't really know what anybody's doing or saying because I'm just sitting there focusing on myself thinking this is, I could die. And I heard this audible voice. And I knew it was Jesus talking to me. He said, keep your eye on me. So it's by my circumstances at the time, which were pretty bad. I, I just started thinking, thinking him for everything he had given me, you know, worshiping him. And yeah, I was on a ventilator. I was still on a ventilator for these 45 days. So I could only think to myself, I couldn't talk or anything. And so in my head, I'm just worshiping him and thanking him and telling me my loving, well, I took my focus off of me and put my focus on him and my problems for me went away. Now on the physical side, outside, Kathy was telling me everybody what to do and how to fix this, what to do about that. And so it all worked out okay. But for me, I think if I had a focused on me, dying, then I would have probably died. I could have died. It would have been that simple. But the Lord told me to keep my eye on him. And I did. And so that's, that's, I think half the story or at least a big part of the story about why I'm still alive. So Kathy, once Steve started revealing to you what he saw on the other side, how did you react? Well, it was, it was quite a bit later. He was in three different hospitals. So he's in the hospital for three and a half months. He went from the ICU, finally get off the ventilator, went to an intermediate care facility, and then after that, he went to a rehab hospital. So towards the end of the time, he was in the rehab hospital. And this was, it's important to note that he was not under the influence of any drugs at this time, because he was dead, been many weeks since he had been on anything. He started getting memories. And so the first thing he shared with me was, I remember this picture of seeing my body. And so he actually, what Jesus had shown him in the throne room of his body looking pretty, pretty bad. He said, well, I remember seeing my body looking this way. And I said, well, you know, with people who've had NDE's, because I've read, I've read most books about heaven when my mom died in 2018, I'd read all the books I could find about heaven and near death experiences. And I would always say, here, this is a great book. Read this and he never wanted to. So he had nothing, no prior, anyone else's experience to base anything or think or compare anything to. But most of the time, when people have an NDE, if they're, you know, floating at the ceiling or something, they see the things in the room, they see things, you know, and hear things, whatever. And I kept saying, well, did you see the bed? Didn't you see the ventilator? Did you see the monitors? No, didn't see anything like that. Only saw my body. And I thought, wow, he must have been somewhere else. We did just get that picture. So I didn't think too much of it. But then after he came home and we were talking one day, actually, we were, I think on our way to church. And he said, I gotta tell you something. I remember something happened to me. He said, when, when they put me in that coma on the ventilator, I had this angel come to me. He said, hello, my name is Marzuka. You spell that, M-A-R-Z-U-K-A. I'm here to take you to heaven for a little while while your body heals. And I said, he spelled his name. And I just thought, that's weird. And he, so I mean, I was a little skeptical at first, but then I, you know, the more I thought about that, Steve doesn't really, he's not a great speller. I mean, he's more into the numbers and the scientific computer type stuff. So he would ask me to spell things, you know, and I thought, well, that's real interesting because he wouldn't naturally tell me how to spell something. So, I mean, I did, we just had to, I said to pray about it, and, you know, the more he shared, I was like, wow, this is things exactly what scripture says about, oh, so many of these things. Now there are things that he saw that are not in the Bible. And so, you know, they're just what the Lord allowed him to see. But I, yeah, I mean, I, I definitely believed that this is really what happened to him. And because I know that, you know, he does have an imagination, but not this much imagination. And he, you know, there's a lot more to things that he did in places he went to that we haven't shared yet, but it's a lot of stuff. And I got to, I got to say that I was, I was really hesitant about fearing it, but it was just so heavy on me because it was just so real. I mean, I mean, I mean, I, I thought, man, she's going to think I'm crazy. And, and so I, you know, I just kept it to myself for, I don't know, three or four days before I even started sharing anything with her because I thought she was, I sure wish she's going to think about this because to be honest, we have you, one of the reasons I never wanted to listen to any of the story she told or read the books or listen to the cassettes or whatever it was she wanted me to see because I was I was a little bit on the skeptical side about people's experiences and I think God has a sense of humor and I think that's one of the reasons he let me have my experience and why he let me experience as much as I did because I think he wants and I'm still probably won't read anybody else's encounter mainly because I don't want to interject their stuff into my experience because I want to try to keep mine. This is my experience. I don't want to you know borrow from somebody else's but you know I you know Heaven's real and I'm totally convinced of that because like I said I can I can reimagine myself being there again and rethinking about it. And those those I have more vivid solid memories of being in heaven than I do one of my any of my favorite vacations. I mean you know it's just it's just that's that's just that much more real to me. So anyway that's what was your reaction Kathy when he told you about Daniel? Well that's interesting you know I remembered that I'd had a miscarriage many years ago and so when he started remembering things probably about once a week I would say to him well when you were in heaven did you ever see any children? And he'd say no no didn't see any children so one thing about Steven's he's pretty you know brutally honest no didn't and I'd say okay and so one day we were sitting in the living room and he said I remember something when I was in heaven this little boy came up to me and said hi my name is Daniel I think you're my dad and I just like came up out of the chair and I just I was like oh my gosh you got to tell me this and you got to tell it to me over and over again and so there was times I wanted to say please tell me about Daniel again what did he look like you know we've written a book about our experience and I you know I I've tried to put as much detail in there because I ask a lot of questions you know when you go in the dark do you get a million questions well that's what he got from me was a million questions so there's a lot of detail in a million and one yeah he became kind of tired of the questions after a while but now I was very excited now Daniel it would have been about 19 years prior and so you know but in heaven he had grown very slowly he still looked like a you know five or six year old boy to Steve so so I think children grow very slowly and differently in heaven it might be that you know they're waiting for us to come up there and help raise them when when we get there so did you find out any more about the spiritual battle that was going to take place up there well I know that there are you know they're demons there are definitely demons now one thing I can share is and to answer your question I don't know to be honest with you I know that I know that there are angels and they do battle with demons and your definition of demons can you know I tend to think that aliens tend to be more demonic than aliens from another another place because they can they can disguise themselves as people the Bible says that Lucifer can the come across as an angel of light but there's no light in him he can fake it and deceive you but you know the battles the battles that the angels fought you know when when I think when I think demons try to interject and keep things from happening that would be beneficial to us and I think part of those spiritual battles that that they wage is answering our prayers and so they go and fight the demon that may be trying to block a blessing from the Lord and if we don't know when you better then those those blessings never come and we we wonder why why things happen the way they happen but when when we engage the angels or when we engage God to do something on our behalf because you know Jesus gave us authority you can read the Bible and find out that he he says I give you my authority go yeah anyway go ahead what we say oh as believers as believers yeah as believers we have the authority that Jesus has given to us while we're here on this earth and if we don't exercise that authority then we get pushed around and the devil can take advantage of us but if we use that authority and have those send those angels out to do something on our behalf they they will and maybe they'll it may take a little bit of time but the the angels will defeat the demons and we'll get the blessing well I think he's talking about the end time battle okay are you talking about the end time battle is that or just nothing specifically just as you mentioned a couple times there's a battle coming or happening and I was just trying to get some more information about it yeah and you know I didn't get a lot of specifics on on something like that I mean I what I know is from what I know I've read in the Bible God didn't give me any more insight other than just to say that the I do know one thing so that those horses during the end times the we are going to be writing back with Jesus because I believe that there's going to be a time where we leave early there's going to be seven years of tribulation and at the end that seven years Jesus is going to come back and have the final battle with the enemy now we're going to be writing our horses and those are going to be those those amazing white horses that I saw up in heaven and because Laos says that we're going to return with him on the white horses and so we're going now Jesus is going to do all the work because he's just going to speak and get rid of the get rid of the the bad guys but we are going to be writing back with him and he just said that you know it's going to happen very soon I don't know I I I look around and see what's going on in the world today and think you know that's very possible that it could be really soon because I just think there's a lot of a lot of stuff going on. Here's in our book I do have a lot of scriptural references to a lot of the things that he saw like with horses and with battle and the book of revelations so yeah that's just kind of a little bit more defined in the book. Is there anything that you saw while you were on the other side that would symbolize the prayers coming from this side? No I can't say I did. I do know that God hears our prayers I don't know how they're visualized in heaven I didn't see anything that would indicate that yeah these are these are streaks of light pouring up to heaven these are prayers and I didn't see anything like that. Only with your dad told you about. Yeah only what my dad told me about people praying for him but that was when people were praying for him when he was still on earth. For me taking care of you? Or yeah you know but as far as our do people see our prayers flying up into heaven I don't have anything to say yes they do but I know God hears them so he's got good ears so. Do you fear death? No not at all. I mean I what not you gotta understand when I was in a hospital I almost died about five or six times and you know and then after seeing what I saw and that experience I had it's like no you know I had thought about what death might be like before you know this is like years ago and you know I didn't really know that I felt like I was afraid to die and maybe didn't really want to but I didn't I don't think I really had any fear because I knew I believed in Christ but after having gone through what I've gone through no I don't fear death a bit because I know that there's so much more than we could ever think or imagine that God has prepared for those who love him and that's kind of what my that's my verse it's verse Corinthians 2 9 and 10 that he has prepared so much stuff for us that you know our hearts and minds can't even imagine what he's got for us and that's why I think I got to see a glimpse and that's why I think Mursouk has told me you know you got to expand your concept of heaven because there is so much more and the thing is no one ever talks about it because no one ever experiences it it's you know the the Bible can be a bit vague on some things and so I think part of my job is to you know share what I experience so to give people hope and to give people you know an opportunity to accept Christ as their Lauren Savior in Kathy teaches about faith because it took a lot of faith for her to pray for me, because she didn't know what was going on. And so that's Y'all's book is called "I've Been to Heaven." Where can people go to find out more about it? Well, there's a couple of places you can go to our website, which is steveandcathyb.com and that's Kathy with the K. And so there's information about us. There's a product page and it's basically a list of all the places where you can buy our book online. You can buy it on Amazon. It's just search "I've Been to Heaven" and you'll see it. Those are the main places to get it. It is in some bookstores. It's in Barnes & Noble. I'm not sure about books a million, but it's wherever Baker Publishing House has distributed. So it's in a lot of places. Yeah, I think it's probably in a lot more like Christian Publishing or bookstores. I know we've done some book signings at some stores in Branson, Missouri. So I know a lot of probably smaller bookstores carry it, but some of the bigger ones carry it also. Do you have a contact form on your website in case people would like to ask questions? We have a sign up sheet that we send out some newsletters. Kathy writes these newsletters and I send them out. The biggest question, the best way is you can contact me at steveandcathyb.com or Kathy at steveandcathyb.com. Those are the best ways probably. I'm busy writing it. Other people software. So I need to spend a little bit more time updating my own software. But yeah, one of these days will fix that up. I'll make it a little bit better. Maybe with the use plot to revamp my website. Before we finish up, can you all leave us with a last positive message? Yeah. You know, like I said, I might get into the preaching realm again if that's okay with you. The message, heaven is real. Heaven is better than you'll ever imagine here on earth. It's you have to you have to see it to really understand it and appreciate God's amazing ability to create. And the only way to be able to see that if you'd asked Jesus into your heart and be that he would be your Lord and Savior. That's that's it. You know, we were on a talk show one time and I somebody asked me, well, did you see people from other religions or Buddhist or, you know, just all over it? And I said no. I only people I saw were people that had accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. And because that's just the way it is. That's God's plan. And I can't change it. So I can only tell you what he says. Stephen Kathy, thank you guys for coming on and being my guest. Thank you so much for the invitation. Thank you for having us.