9: Energy accounting: Finding balance for neurodivergent lives with Sandhya Menon

Welcome to Noradavurjan Pulse, where we explore the often misunderstood world of Noradavurjans, with experts, parents, teachers and therapists. Grounded in lived experience, each fight-sized episode gives you something practical to try. I am your host, LeTisha Andrak, AI expert, Noradavurjan-moment founder of Understanding Zoe. This podcast is recorded on Darrell Country. I acknowledge that Sorrenti was never seated. It always lives and always will be Aboriginal land. Hello, Sarajja. Thank you so much for being on the Noradavurjan Pulse podcast. Hello, LeTisha. Thanks for having me. We are going to talk today about energy accounting, and it's a concept that you're really leading the way with PowerPap, which is your latest book. But before we start, and we talk a bit more about this, I would love for you to share a bit more about you, with our listener, and how you came up with this idea of energy accounting. Sure. So, hi, I'm Sandhya. I am an Audi HD psychologist. I started my journey through writing books. So, my first book was The Brain Forest, and I suppose it was that start that led me to burnout, you know, being undiagnosed or to stick. I didn't realise the impact of perception on my nervous system, and then I got into burnout. And I was surprised by how surprising burnout was for me. I'd heard it as a concept, but experiencing just how much burnout can take away from you, gave me a new lens. So, I started to look at, you know, how can we help? How do we support this nervous system that is honestly kind of hanging by a thread? But, yeah, what does that look like? And we didn't have ideas. We didn't have answers. So, in the chronic illness community, there is spoon theory from Christine, Mr. Andino. Now, I didn't invent energy accounting. It was a concept that I saw around in the autistic community already, as just kind of the next step up from that. So, important to say that I didn't, like, you know, I didn't invent the concept. Yes. Yes. Yeah, so, I'm more. And when you show it more than, I love the origin story of how you came across writing and focusing on energy accounting. Can you explain a bit more for our listeners what this concept mean and how you've used it to recover from your burnout? You may know that I had a big burnout 11 years ago, and now I know it was a autistic burnout, even though at the time, I didn't know. I just thought my body was telling me. So, yeah, really interesting to learn a bit more about this concept and idea of energy accounting. Yeah. So, energy accounting, I think, is best understood first through the lens of accounting. But what is your money in? What is your money out? What is your profit lost statement? Ideally, you want to stay in like the black, I think, is what it's called in accounting. And then we take that concept and apply it to energy. Spit more fluffy, but we start to think about what are the things that we do that help our nervous system kind of feel good and recharge and where does energy flow out? Where things that we spend more energy on? And I guess, where burnout happens is when you're in the red with that, when your energy is flowing out way more than you're putting in. And if we apply a neurodivergent lens, often we don't know what those needs are. So, energy is just kind of flowing out of our nervous system and we don't even realize it, like going to a shopping mall, we think that's normal, but it's the lights, it's the sounds, it's the noise that's having this impact on our nervous system and we're not cognitively aware of it. So, energy accounting starts to bring an awareness to where that energy is kind of draining. Yes, and I love the analogy to a quiz accounting itself, and being in the black, rather than the red. And of course, in a business lens, you understand the coming in or in a family-wise sense, you understand where the money is coming in. And you see where the money is going out, whereas in our own self, I find like, it took me a long time to really understand what was giving me energy and what was taking energy. And there are so many things that we do from a place of bone response and people pleasing, which is my tendency from my response. And it's really kind of, okay, I'm going to please everyone and those are the neuronormative expectation of society. So, I should be doing all of this. So, how is that looking like in a day to day life? We have lots of parents listening to this podcast, we have therapy as well, and teachers, so how can we, for oneself or as a family, look at this in and out in the day today? Yeah, so I think with neuronormative expectations, for example, we're actually starting to question, is what's supposed to be a charger, like socializing, for example, actually a drain of for us? Yeah, so one thing that surprised me, so I started this journey in 2023 doing bio-tracking for myself. And I was surprised because I was doing things that I thought was charging me, like sitting on the grass in the sun, watching my children play, that sounds like a charger, but my watch was telling me, you've got a high stress rate, take a moment to breathe. And then it went, wow, you know, it's just this hyper-empathy of like, you know, when my children are having a little disagreement over there, that's impacting my nervous system. It's a little bit too hot, a little bit too cold, and I'm not regulating, that's impacting my nervous system. So, that's something that we're starting to do, is to accurately classify and start to question, are my regulators regulators? And what are some of the things I can start to notice a little bit more about how my body responds? So, tuning into that body response. It is so important what you just said, because there are so many things where I thought he would charge me using your analogy of the charger, and actually he was charging the battery, being like, it's actually costing me way more energy, and socializing is a big one, like in social setting and going for those catch up with friends, which is supposed to feel like what your cut were actually exchanging a meme on social media or sending a WhatsApp message, which is just a few words, he's actually charging me more than hanging out with friends. So, yeah, if you're a friend and you want to hang out, then I'm not very available, and I just want a meme instead, that's what's charging me, beautiful example. And what are, you know, you just mentioned one around socialize and you know, sitting in the grass and so on. What are other misconceptions that you came across when you're sharing with other people about finding what's charging them? What are those expectations that they've taken on from society? And then what is this cover about their needs, their own neurodivergence, and their walks work through their own internalized abolition, potentially all the neuron, what are the new things that they discover that are actually charging them, just to give some inspiration by listeners, because there are so many things that we don't think about that can be charger or discharging our batteries. Yeah, I think one of the stories that we grow up with is that school is easy, because everybody does school, but you go to school and you're supposed to have enough energy for after-school activities. And you know, sometimes we kind of push through when our child needs rest. We've still got this like, well, school shouldn't have been that much of a drain on your nervous system. You should have more energy to do things, and we struggle with giving them rest. That is a big one. That is such a good one, because I know that, you know, on a family and from our own new experience place, we are days where school is not even an option, because it's taking so much energy out that a day of school or multiple day of school are needed on top of the time after school. So yeah, it's a beautiful example, beautiful, beautiful example. I just love the practicality that you always bring in everything you do, so yeah, it's just an excellent joy. Thank you. Yeah, so I think like growing up, growing up, growing through my parenting journey with energy accounting, you know, we started prepped with school count, which is fun. But something that we've put in along the way is you always can just call for a day off. Because now I've readjusted my understanding, you know, my understanding of what school actually is on your nervous system. To go, okay, well, if you feel like you're getting a little bit too drained, if you feel like you're heading towards the bed, tell me, right, ideally a couple of days in advance, I need a day off. Also of our little foam agency days off, absolutely. But we try to start planning this, so we're staying in that black, right, we don't get to the red and then go, oh no, we should have done this earlier. I make it, I try really hard to keep our nervous systems in that black. I love that. And so for a parent or a teacher or a therapist or anyone who is surrounding an erudabirdian child or yourself identifying as an erudabirdian, how would you, what tool or what approach would you give them to exactly brings that sense of awareness around, okay, my battery is starting to reduce. And I am in this, I need something, I need a recommendation, I need a day off, I need something because we know unfortunately that's very often in the erudabirdian space, brown out is ignored and we're going to burn out straight away. So how can we, can we do that, like how do you do it with your own company, how do you do it with yourself, or do you have any approach or tools that could help us, because I know I am one of those with pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing until I end up, under my weight is not able to use any words for a few days and having to communicate in all the ways, which is always a bit distressing for everyone with use to hearing me speak and I have those moments where a few days when like, no speaking for a few days, so you have to read what I have to say or my meme or my movement and so how can we prevent that? Yeah, so I guess, you know, we've had an example where you go through a big drain and then you're under the blanket for a few days. I start to, I guess, question, do I know this, do I know that this is going to happen? And, you know, from past experience, now I do, I have the benefit of, you know, longitudinal data. Where I start to say, you know what, I actually can't fly back the day of, like you've spoken or even really the day after is a bit tricky. I need a few days, so I start to plan, so I'm not relying on last minute contingencies. If I need to go under weighted blanket and not speak for a while, ideally I would have prepared my family. So we're not, you know, those things are still happening, but while I've had the language, I could prepare them for this is what I need, mum need some quiet while, while my own body is recharging. So those are the kinds of things that I would do, identify those big drains, but you know, it might be something that's meaningful to you, like I know you speak at conferences too, and that's meaningful to spread your awareness, and it's just to go, you know, I understand this. But on something concrete that people can do, is start to notice when we're running low. So notice when we're charged up and happy, so you know, when they come back really tight, just go up, looks like a power pack has run low, here's a snack. Right, do you want some quiet or read a book together, offering these really simple kind of recharging options that stop pushing them to tell you how they're feeling and why they're feeling that way. Their power packs too low to do that. We have to recharge and bring them up to a more cognitive state first before they can use any language to go through that. I love that. I really love the simplicity of it, yet the power of it, and how many times do we just push through rather than posing like, okay, how is my power pack? And it's just this regular check in right? Yeah, that's it, is building that into the every day. So if you can, you know, best of all, indicate your child, I'm like, you know, what are power packs, for example, and then start to model it. Right, to go my power packs a bit low. But also, my power packs really high. Let's do an activity together. So we're not just modeling that like low slumpy period. It's, you know, what's the middle ground? I'm like, I'm not quite sure. Can we just go for like one hour rather than two hours of flip out? For example, you know, like I don't think I can take two hours because I'm in this like orange zone, but I get we can do one hour, but that'll be enough. And then when I'm really high, going like, yeah, let's, let's go for a hike, you know, and so it's talking about your power pack at all the different levels. I love this. And I love that you mentioned flip out. I know it because my brain wants to mention it. We went to flip out in the last full holiday. Ten minutes in, you broke one of her tooth. So I was like, oh my god, oh my god, but it's it's it's lovely how they can, you know, get their energy and it's always beautiful trumple in. And when you go, when there is no one around, it's okay for my power pack, but when crowd with kids and parents and noise, like for sure, I need a full battery to go there. So if we go and look at a classroom context, for instance, I really understand how as a family, we can start choosing the power pack and start bringing awareness around energy at content. How have you seen, because I know you're you're helping a lot of school and teachers and community around applying those concepts. How if any teacher is listening to his book as a quick start applying energy or content in a classroom? Yeah. So in in the book, my body is power pack. There is a lovely image that I really recommend you look at. And it is children lining up outside of a classroom and they all have different power packs. And that's the thing that I want teachers to know is that not everyone is going to start the day on 100%. Some of them will start at 50. Some of them start at 20. We all have different starting points. And if we know, if first of all, if we know that, we can normalize that to go, it's okay to take a little bit slower. I'm here for what you need. It's okay to check in with me. If you're having a hard day, you know, I can support you. I'm someone who you can come to. And if you're a teacher getting to know your own students, I guess, ways of expressing that. There will be some students who you can observe that very easily. You know, they're very expressive with their bodies. I either come in slum to like throwing the bag on the floor type thing or coming really grumpy. But then there are some kids who you can't tell on their face. It is actually a micro expression that we're looking for rather than a smile. It's a straight line, for example, rather than being ready to contribute and sitting out. They're just a bit more quiet. And that's that student's individual signs. And we've got to look out for that too. Yes. Yes. Totally. And I love that in the fact that every of your book and if anyone has enjoyed the brain for us, the power park, really kind of getting it. And also your first one, can you remind me, was it a rainbow brain? So the brain for us was the first one. And then it was the rainbow brain. I think to you first, we're the brain for us. And then I read the rainbow brain. I didn't know the -- oh, okay. And it's in that order. Okay, great. So yeah, any of your book, where I love it, there is exercises and really good thing. And I know the brain for us to share it with. So it's class for them to do the exercise of the brain that you recommend in the book. So always thinking about getting those books to really help and then apply those examples. Is there anything that you'd like to share with our listeners about energy or content before I go through what is charging you? Oh, good question. I think what one of the things that I think about as a parent is to look at energy accounting in terms of a system's approach. So if you're working one-on-one with a child or an adult, even, getting to know their own nervous systems, but the next step is really learning about how nervous systems interact. Right. Because so for example, you know, as a parent, I go, okay, well, we've gone to a birthday party. My power pack is true. Low. I have child one whose power pack is low. But then I've got child two. Her birthday party was so energising that they've still got a high power pack and they're going to need more stimulating activities. Right. So it's about how can we plan for a little system whether it's a family or a classroom for people to have different needs? Yes. And how can we do that then? It's happened so many times, you know, in our family dynamic, but I also witness it in other contexts how sometimes you have one person who is fully charged and then another one who is really, really on in the red and one which is in between and another one like, you know, we all have, as you've said, beautifully different needs and different energy level. What can we do in those contexts to act in the language and accommodate for everyone's needs? Yeah. So, you know, in my household we have a little jar of like little like energising activities. So you can pick from that and I've learned how we can engage. So for example, if I've got a low power pack, I'm going to sit out on the deck and I'm just going to rest. My other child with a low power pack, he's going to read. My other child will be outside on the trampoline. So we can all kind of share space because these things are predictable. I know that that's what she's going to need because, you know, that's what they like. So I think part of, I guess, part of making space for this is being able to plan and predict so that you can kind of have these activities going, I already know what's going to happen. Right? It's not a surprise that people have different nervous systems. Definitely. Yet, you know, we're like, it's not a surprise yet. Most of our society is built for everyone to be, you know, on the same level for everything. It's, it's insane. The more I dive deeper into this work for myself and for my family and, you know, for understanding so even more, I discover how there are so many expectations that is just, oh, we all eat, we all, we're all the same. We're all equal. And I like it. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, for example, in the classroom, if we were to plan for that, we'd go, okay, well, you know, those who want to work quietly, you know, grab your headphones and sit on this table. Those who want group discussions, you're on the other end. So we can start planning for that. And that's really the push that we're moving to it. It's not, we're all doing the same. We're all learning. That's the same thing. But we're all learning in a way that works for us. Yeah. So good. And we've, we've stumbled across Montessori. And I'm not promoting Montessori whatsoever. But it's been a beautiful experience for us. And I know every Montessori school is different. But for us, it's been a beautiful experience because there is actually this led by the child and their own needs. So if one child wants to actually work under the table with their head firm in kind of a more dark place and read the can. And if they want to do math lying down on the floor, they can. And if they want, and that's, I wish this would be possible in other schools because this is something that we struggled with. And now our own family is the expectation of sitting on a table and on a chair and just doing the same work as all the people, which sometimes can be difficult for some of our kiddos, which then create some school cant situation and so on. So I wish that more people will listen to this and try to start bringing within their school environment or their home environment to different corners that we all need and those different spaces. Yeah. That's it. Plan for diversity is the message that we're going for. Actually, you're never so designed. I love it. So why didn't before I did you go something something. What is the one small ritual? That is really challenging you whatever happened. It's like it's your go to just to inspire us. Yep. So I always start the morning with a cup of freshly brewed coffee and I put it in my special whale cap so I don't use any other cap so I connect with the whales and then I just sit outside and listen to the birds. And you know that's the five minutes that I have to just go you know that's my time. That is my grounding connecting to my body. I don't have to do anything aside from drink this cup. So yeah, that's a little thing that I do that's sacred. I love it. Like the importance of sacred ritual is really something that help us and this ritual as you said are predictable and they're always the same and there is an intention behind it. I love that and I love your love for whales. It's just such a beautiful artistic joy and it's been with us. You know, like I love the river and it is the amazing river. Yeah, that's it. So it's like being able to connect you don't want more away from the ocean. It's in a coffee. It's just delightful. Now I made my own Thai syrup so it's like a dirty time. It's just so. Oh, thanks for having. That's so special. So special. So for anyone with listening to this and that I'm okay, is this time or is not enough for me to dive deep enough in all those topics or any of you with listening to this and you want to go for a deep dive, where can they connect with your work, where can they get your books, how can they learn more from you. I know you have fantastic courses which are the beauty of I mean, not in many of those and I highly recommend them. Cool. Yeah, so I'm probably most active on Instagram @onwardsandupwardspsych or on Facebook on an upsite. You can buy my body's power pack really all over the world wherever you get your books. But if you'd like the card deck that's available on my website. So onwardsandupwardspsychology.com.au I am going to be speaking more about energy accounting at the Neuronetra conference in Adelaide. So that's coming up in February. But aside from that toll, I really respond to workshops that the community wants. So if that's something that people are interested in, feel free to connect with me on social media, say I've been looking for this and then we can work, work something out. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today. It was really special to spend some time telling you on the Neuronetra event and post and as always you have perlote with them that she's spread around and highly recommend for anyone listening to this to check your work and thank you again for being such an amazing support to myself and my family and everyone that is around us in the community. Thank you. Thank you. That's right. I love how they connect. Quick Pulse Check about energy accounting. So so how do you know when your energy tank is low? I get angry sometimes I have a headache and I would steam a lot. Okay. Thank you. And so how do you refill your tank of energy back up? By being underneath my weighted blanket and sometimes having sensory toys, fidgeting and again steaming. Thank you for joining us for this quick Pulse Check Zoe. That's a wrap for Neuronetra version Pulse. If this helped, follow the show and leave us a quick review on your favorite platform. You can even share this episode with someone we need it. You can learn more about our platform at understandingtheway.com. Thanks for listening.