End of an Era

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After nearly a quarter century under the gold dome, one of the most powerful women in Georgia politics is retiring. Speaker Pro Tem Jan Jones announced she would not seek reelection. She was first elected a public office in 2002. And a speaker pro Tem in 2010. She's the longest serving speaker pro Tem in the US, Patricia. That means that she is either a power player or a glutton for punishment or about. Yeah, she has. She's a very, very important member down here at the state capital. She also is one of the few who really does not seek press coverage for that. In fact, it's very difficult to get an interview with the speaker pro Tem. She is typically on the house floor head down, reading a document or walking around among the Republican caucus, sharing a document, talking to people, probably twisting a few arms. I mean, she's a real power center. Wherever Jan Jones is, you know where the action is. So I was really pleased that she sat down with us to talk about kind of her life, her legacy. She does not like the word legacy. A lot of people don't like that word. But I think our conversation with her really gave a lot of great insight into what she's been doing on these years when she has not been talking about press. And we hear that conversation in a minute, but you also got the chance to sit down with her a couple of years ago. And you wrote a really profound column about her experience, how she rose through the ranks, her decisions to run for not just, of course, for elected office, but run in a brutal. You know, the politics within these caucuses can be really brutal. So it was no easy decision for her to decide to run for elected office within the caucus to be in a leadership position. That's right. And also for these leadership roles, I mean, in her pro-tem race, which is the job that she has now, she ran against seven other Republicans. And those can be real dogfights. And so anybody who comes out on top of a seven-man battle, six-men, one woman, it reminds me of a line from Speaker Nancy Pelosi that nobody gives you power. You have to take it. And so that is a great insight into what kind of political, acumen, power source, powers of persuasion, and then just sheer grit it takes to win a race like that. This was no like, this was not the Dupy saying, oh, we should have a woman in leadership. No, Jan Jones put herself in leadership. Yeah, she had a fight for it. It also reminds us of how much change we're going to see next year under the gold dome. Because a lot of folks are either moving up, they're trying to run for higher office, or they're moving out, they're retiring. And she's far from the only big name. State Representative Lynn Smith announced she also plans to step down from her seat and not seek another term. 30 years or so of elected office experience. So we're going to lose a lot of institutional knowledge under the gold dome. Yeah, also the district that Jan Jones represents has changed enormously since she has represented. She's up there in North Fulton. She was instrumental in creating the city of Milton. And that whole area has changed from sort of an exorb with significant rural areas to kind of a epicenter of like suburban politics in that northern arc. She's been here for a ton of change, not just at the capital, but in her district. And then I would say kind of Republican politics writ large. And the direction that things are going, I think it does make many members have been here for some time, thinking maybe now is the time for me to step aside. Yeah, what's important to remember too is when you're a member of the General Assembly, you've got your constituents. But when you're in leadership booths, you have a different sort of constituents. And that's the members of your caucus and the members of the House. So Jan Jones's name might not be a household one for many of people following Georgia politics. But she's a statewide figure in her own right going around the state, talking about issues, developing proposals, and of course trying to work to elect other members of the Republican caucus. Yeah. And even though the legislature is in session just three months a year, if you're in the leadership for either of the parties, that is a 12 month job right there. And so when I talked to her, right after she became the first female speaker of the House, that happened after David Ralston passed away somewhat unexpectedly in office. She automatically became the speaker because she was speaker pro-tum. She really was indicating me, this is a full-time job. It's something that occupies 12 months a year. You have your caucus asking for your time. They need help with something. They want help with legislation. They want a special favor. They want you to come to a fundraiser. This is just constant, constant, constant. And even in those years, she had said that her family was starting to grow. She's starting to have grandchildren. And she felt like her family needed more of her not less. And that played a pretty big part in her deciding not to seek the speaker ship position at that time. When she had been sort of automatically made speaker, she decided to step back and not run against John Burns for that spot. We're not going to take you to our conversation with speaker pro-tum Jan Jones in her office. Speaker pro-tum Jan Jones. Thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me. Of course. Well, we always watch you carefully on the floor because you typically have your head down, your mid, your kind of the mover and shaker on the floor. We know that the action is happening wherever Ms. Jen's is. But we want to talk to you today because you've announced that you are retiring at the end of the year after more than 20 years on the legislature. That's right. Tell us about your decision. You know, I've thought about it for a while. And I finally came to the conclusion that if I waited, you know, assuming the voters supported this, if I waited until I was no longer interested in the issues and changing things to make it better, that I would not leave walking. I would leave feet first. And so I decided to put that aside and just think about what do I want the next few years to look like. And it didn't include going to meetings all the time and spending three months here. If that was all I was making my decision on was, you know, how was I going to spend my time? And so that along with my family who have been very supportive and patient, I could tell that they were ready for me to have more unstructured time, more uncommitted time. And so between the two, that's how I made my decision. Because you have four adult children and you've just told us four and a half grandchildren. That's right. That's right. And they're all little and someone's always sick and someone's always. And so we, you know, that'll be a greater part of my life after I leave. It won't be the only part, but it'll be more available, which is important. So is there a personal legacy that you hope Georgians remember that you hope you remembered for as you take your next step? I'm not one of these people who really thinks about like what are people going to remember me for? What am I going to remember me for? It kind of what matters to me. Because I think of myself as more of a behind the scenes kind of person. And I I think that's a good way to be. Don't worry about who gets credit. Just worry about did it happen? And so for me, I What did I want to do? I didn't know this when I came in. I didn't know anything when I came in. Truly clueless. But what has mattered the most to me is making a difference for children and young people to have more opportunities to live the life that would be best for them. And so that, the way that ended up, it is best to be in the legislature. You want to be a generalist and a specialist. If you're only a generalist, I find you get very little done. If you're only a specialist, you don't have the broader perspective. And so what I kind of fell into specializing in, and maybe that was because it was just my interest, is pre-K, K through 12, and higher ed. And so I look at what I'm working on this year, which will be my last legislative year. I'm strengthening the-- I have a build-- strengthen the opportunities for kids at risk of dropping out. And I've been working on that for about five years so that we have-- my goal is that every child in Georgia, for whom a traditional setting doesn't work, or hasn't worked for them, that they have what we now call completion school. They can attend to finally get their degree. And it doesn't matter to me if they graduate on time. That's for superintendents to worry about. What matters to me is do they cross the line. So I've got that. I am trying one last time to bolster our pre-K. We've had declining enrollment for 10 years, despite a growing state. And so in looking at what are some of the structural or funding problems that are contributing to that, I work to get money in the big budget so that pre-K teachers for the first time will have five personal days of leave. We do not fund that now. And I'm also expanding a program for children who've had no exposure to any kind of formal learning or that I call it the pre-pre-K program. It's an intensive summer program, the summer before pre-K. And then I'm in a whole lot of other things. But those are the kinds of things I'm working on. And so if there's anything I want to remember me for, I'll know what I did. And I do believe it'll make a difference for kids. So one thing you'll certainly be remembered for is the history that you made. You were the first female speaker of the House in Georgia history. That happened when Speaker of the House David Rolston passed away very unexpectedly. And I think left people all in the capital across state Georgia in a complete state of shock. And you automatically became the speaker because of the way that Georgia Constitution is written. And it really fell upon you to sort of guide the caucus forward and guide the House forward in his-- and look kind of awake at his death. Look, what was that time like for you? And how do you look back on those days? It was-- it did kind of jolt the caucus in the House. What, you know, within about 24, 48 hours, what I came to the conclusion with a couple other sort of senior members, including the speaker today, John Burns, is that I wanted to continue in the role I was in and have constancy there. And I like the role that I have more flexibility to work on issues and to support members without having to do all the things that the speaker has to do. And I supported John Burns to be the speaker. But it-- while he prepared to become what was, you know, the most likely result on the first day of session, I could just run the office and make a few appointments that needed to be made, try to wrap up loose ends because the speaker had been sick for a while, although we were still all shocked when he sadly passed away. But I do want to mention that what I think of myself being known for more is being the first female speaker pro-tim because I did run in a field of seven. It's a very powerful pest in us. And 16 years ago. And at a time where, you know, we just had never had a female majority leader, pro-tim, speaker, and I-- in fact, in the 20-- this will now be 24 years I had been here. I had never seen a female hold the gavle. Much less stand up there and preside. And so for me personally, I found when I talked to members, or I talked to women, or young girls, students, I talk about that path to rise to elected office, which was an elected position among the caucus in the House, it was a harder path and a one I frankly take more personal pride in. And you're the longest serving House speaker pro-tim in the nation? That's right. That's right, which tells you how long people want to do this. That's not too long. But that is right. What's the hardest lesson you learned during that campaign, that internal campaign for that post? Because as Patricia mentioned, it's very powerful. It's not necessarily seeing the papers, as front and center as a speaker, but it's immensely important position. I learned that people respect hard work, not who takes the most credit for it, but who actually does the work. And I felt that I was always a very hard worker from the time I came in. And I saw a lack of informing the caucus on issues. And so I took it upon myself to be the purveyor of information on education, higher education, for a few years. And then when I ran for whip-- and I was the whip for a year-- and it would-- I took it very seriously, read every bill, personally wrote every report to the caucus. And if you work hard and you do a reasonably good job, people notice it. That really-- I'm probably not the first person you think you have to go have a beer with. I don't think I'm the last person that you think to go have a beer with. I'm probably not the first person you think to go have a beer with. And so people respect hard work. Senator John Albers, who was one of your colleagues in the Fulton delegation, also told me that you are considered by most people as the mother of Milton, meaning you played a huge role in creating the city of Milton and setting the example of other cities, new cities around the state, especially the metro area, to have more self-governance for themselves as well. And he felt like that'll be one of the biggest pieces that you be pined. That was one of the harder things I did. And it was convincing people who knew me here didn't know me in the community that the question always would come up about, well, do we need more government? And I had to develop a way of explaining that more government doesn't mean more government that what people are looking for out of their government is one that's answerable to them, that they have some elected influence. And it's hard to have that when you're in a county of a million people. And so that was what I was selling, was how to have more elected influence and not feel like it just meant more government intruding in your life. And it's so interesting now looking back because it was quite partisan at the time, the vote on the floor and the whole debate on it. In retrospect now, almost 20 years later, it's not partisan at all. In fact, the vote in Cobb County, there were four cityhood efforts at once. And the only one that passed was Democrat and Georgia City. And so it's not about that. It's just people, within reason obviously, they want to feel that their community matters, they have a sense of community, and that there are people. people that they can call on whether they get their way or not that will at least listen to them. - Speaker, I want to go back to something you said earlier. When you said, when you were first elected, you didn't see women in leadership positions, let alone holding a gavel. How do you think the landscape has changed in the last couple of decades? And what else do you think needs to happen under the gold dome to keep changing that landscape? - Why do you think it has changed? - Just in what people expect. The same with running for office. 20, 30 years ago, I can remember people saying, well, I don't think people are ready for a female represented or whatever. And so I actually did a little analysis on it because I had been called by a, I don't remember the publication. And they wanted to know why there weren't, for example, more women, Republicans, elected office. And so I looked at over about a decade of when women ran for office, whether it's a Republican or Democrat. How often were they the ones in the primary to prevail? And it was more often and not, it was the female that prevailed. So it isn't that people don't want to elect a female. Just fewer females at least in my party tend to run. Some of that is geography. They tend to Republicans in Georgia, remembering, they only look at your state. That's not true in other states. In our state, they tend to live further away from the capital. And so sometimes women will wait until their kids are a little older, frankly older than mine, where mine were really quite young. It was hard to do. And, but I don't think people think as much now male, female, it's just who's the right person. You know, your gender isn't impediment, and it isn't the first thing people necessarily notice. What they want to know is, do you work hard, do you reflect, are you open-minded, and do you generally reflect their perspective? - Yeah, and in January, politics has changed towards when and generally, but here at the state capital, I, you're the only woman I see with a gable in her hand on the House or the Senate. And it still feels very, very, male-dominated, almost a voice club walking around and seeing who's here. There are more women, but even more so than the US capital, it feels to me, it does. It still feels like it's a higher hill for women than for men in leadership. Do you feel that? - I don't feel like it's a higher hill. I really don't. I do believe in the majority party today, there are fewer women running for office, and but that is changing. We now have out of seven leadership, elected leadership positions in the Georgia House, three are women. And with the election of Suhong, most recently. And if you look at the chairman, I actually looked at the numbers, but I would expect, I would predict if you would analyze it, they're overrepresented relative to the number that are in off in the majority party. And so one thing I will be working just as one of many things, but kind of on the side, when I leave office, we'll be encouraging other women, conservative women to run for office. And how to, you'll be a resource to them as to how do you fit this into your life? And how do you make it work? - So with your retirement, what advice do you have for young people, but particularly women, who are looking at career and politics? - Well, I guess as I meet, have met and will meet with women. I like to get to know what's their motivation. And you wanna dig deep, or you're looking to be something or do something. And now if you're looking to do something, there are many ways to do something outside of elected office, but if that appeals to someone, then they need to get their life in order. To, that's their logistical, just as in your life and your life, their logistical ramifications. And is their family gonna be supportive? If they have children, is there a husband supportive? You know, I couldn't have done it. If I didn't have a husband that was willing to, you know, do the soccer run when I couldn't. And I would encourage them to not just listen to the loud few voices, but try to train themselves to hear the silent majority. Because the silent majority will never come down to the Capitol. They'll never write you or text you or rarely. But they, that's who you represent. - Well, that sounds like advice for everybody. Well, isn't Speaker, Pro Tem, Jan Jens, congratulations on your decision. - Thank you. - And thanks for your time today. - Thank you very much. I appreciate it. - That was our conversation with Speaker Pro Tem, Jan Jones. And when you come back, our takeaways from that conversation. This is politically Georgia from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. (upbeat music) - This is its UAPO. - Whatever you means to you, we are talking to that specific community. - You're unscripted on apologetic weekly dose of black culture, straight from the heart of Atlanta. Our show is hosted by reporters from UATL, an AJC publication that is dedicated to amplifying black culture. In every week, we're diving into anything that touches black life. - That's right, child. - That's right. That's right. - You try and succeed. - Welcome to its UATL. - Tune in every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. - Middle Georgia State University is helping to make Georgia the best place to do business by strengthening our workforce with every nurse, aviator, educator, computer scientist, entrepreneur, and creative that we graduate. Discover your future today, online at MGA.edu, and start building tomorrow now. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to Politically Georgia. I'm Greg Bluistin, here with Patricia Murphy, reminder, if you have a question, you'd like to ask us here in Politically Georgia, you can call the Politically Georgia call and hotline anytime, day or night. Leave a question, and we'll play it back an answer your question right here on the show during our Monday mail-back segment. The number 770-810-5297, that 770-810-5297. Patricia, we just came back from our discussion with House Speaker, Pro Tim Jen Jones, who talked a little bit about our legacy, but you can see her personality shining through in terms of she's not someone who wants the spotlight, who wants the limelight of being talked about in shows like this, all over the news, all over the headlines. She's very much behind the scenes, lawmaker. - Yeah, really known as a workhorse, not a showhorse, like very nitty gritty into the details of legislation and issues, especially education issues. So when she talked about what she was going to remember about her own tenure, the bills that she's been able to pass, the policy that she's been able to move on education in particular, was not at all surprised to her say that that's what she was going to remember. I do think what jumped out to me two things. Number one was that she said she'd never seen a woman hold a gala. That was wild, and that sort of tells you the environment that she came into as a new female member in the Republican caucus and then eventually seeking leadership. It was you have to do something that's never been done before and that makes it just inherently harder than just doing the thing itself. So that jumped out. I mean, and she, and it has changed a lot. And I think I said, well, it hasn't changed that much. I don't see many other women. There are not other women with the gala, by the way. House or Senate side, but it has changed in her time, partially because of her time, honestly. The second thing that she said was that it meant more to her to be the first female pro-tem, than it did to be the first speaker, because as we mentioned earlier, becoming the first female pro-tem, that took a lot of work, a lot of grit, a lot of learning about the real deal of politics down here at the state capital, which isn't always pretty. And then she still came out the winner and so you could tell the pride she had taken in that achievement. Yeah, a lot of internal and external and political, traveling around the state, doing things that will never be something that we talk about her right about. Like, going to fundraisers in Heyhaira, you name it. Like, doing all those things, that matters. That matters to the members of her caucus. And of course, the policies that she pushes or the policies she decides not to push, right? That's just as telling a big part of her job. And any other leader in either of those chambers job is also to play defense, right? To be a safety valve against policies and proposals that might be more important. harmful than good. I can now that you mention that, I can think of multiple bills down here at the state capital that did not go anywhere and the reason was because behind the scenes, Jan Jones didn't want it to go anywhere. So she certainly had her heavy, strong influence, not just on what happens, but on what doesn't happen. So my question for you Greg, is that concern or you might start? What kind of vacuum does this create? Who do you see wanting to step into that leadership role? Is there this new generation of young Republicans looking to grab that? Or are there veterans who have been like, you know what, I've been on the flatlines too long? Yeah, there are some veterans who have been sort of, quote unquote, waiting their turns. There's also plenty of lawmakers who are just fine being committee chairs, right? In a sense, holding not as much power, but their own sort of powers without having to worry about internal caucus politics after the session ends in April, right? We can continue being XYZ chair of judiciary appropriations, ways of means you name it. But there are also a group of up and coming House lawmakers, one I'm watching really closely, I think everyone is, is Sioux Halling, who already has a leadership post and could continue to rise. And of course, we also talk about Chuck of Strachan, a House majority leader who could be talked about as the next speaker when John Burns decides to hang up his gavel. So there are younger groups of lawmakers who are looking to make a bigger mark as well. So I'm completely agree with you. Sioux Halling is somebody who has been on sort of like Republican leaders radar since the moment she ran for her guinette seat. And she was one of the governor's floor leaders as a freshman and say that really tells you the amount of trust that they had in Sioux Halling early on. And then also the level to which they wanted to put her forward as a leader, somebody who's in one of those northern arc suburban seats for Republicans. Really, that is the power center for probably is they cannot lose control of those northern arc seats. So they're going to be in a whole world of trouble and maybe lose control of the House in the process. So she's somebody who for sure, in Chuck's frustration, of course, I think he's sort of, people see him as sort of a, not a speaker in waiting because that kind of is just like waiting for John Burns to get somewhere. But he certainly is dethrusted right hand of the speaker and with somebody who has put himself word for leadership and he's been very successful so far. So I think both of them for sure have legs. One thing that was interesting too from our conversation with Jan Jones is she's not going to kind of write off into the sunset. No. She still wants to be very involved, but particularly with recruiting young conservative women to run for office. So I think we're going to hear a lot more from her on that front. Yeah, she also said, I said, mentally, I said, well, your family is going to say, yeah, but I'm not saying I'm going to be doing, you know, I'm going to be doing other things. And when we were off Mike, I don't think this is anything that's a secret. She told us one of the best trips she ever took was somewhat recently. She climbed Mount Kilimanjaro with her husband, her son and her son's wife. So that sort of gives you an idea of what Republicans have had down there and their sort of leadership toolbox is a grandma hiking Mount Kilimanjaro. And that is who Jan Jones is was and will continue to be. Do you think your kids would ever invite you to hike Mount Kilimanjaro with them when you're older and they're older? I mean, I just want them to invite me to dinner. I'm okay with that too. But I would say yes to Kilimanjaro. I would say yes in a heartbeat. Let's just see if they ask me. I'm waiting for that ask Nicole. I don't know. You've got that TikTok account, Greg. That's deeply embarrassing to hear children. I'm not sure. You're going to have to, you might have to moderate TikTok before you get invited to Kilimanjaro. Our listeners, it's Yoachoo Boy Blue and I cannot post anything without them first approving it, but they still hate it. And let me answer the one question I always get about it. Is this thing real? Yes, it is. Unfortunately, it's very real. 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For your future today, online at MGA.edu and start building tomorrow now.