295: Emotional Whiplash!

This week's episode is brought to you by AbbVie. Chronic migraine means 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents, on average, eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at the highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reaction like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck, and injection site pain, and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like ALS, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications like botulinum toxins, which may increase the risk of serious side effects. Make a plan and ask your doctor about Botox. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX. For beverages, baking, and cooking. If you're looking for a better way to enjoy sweetness with zero calories per serving, you really need to try Truvia Allulose Plus Stivia Sweetener and Monk Fruit Sweetener. Available online and nationwide at Kroger, Albertsons, Safeway, and your favorite local grocery retailer. We're back. Hello. Back at it again with the white vans. I just watched Angela on YouTube Jeopardy, and it made me realize that YouTube Jeopardy, they do like YouTube Jeopardy YouTube. Oh, is it like by the same company or is it? Yeah. Oh, cool. But they have all these YouTubers come on. And so it was Angela, Michelle Carre, Josh from Mythical Kitchen. Oh, wow. And it was just so good. And the answers, the trivia, I'm like, I want to now I have another goal. I want to be on. Yeah, get Morgan on YouTube Jeopardy. YouTube Jeopardy. Hey, where's the Jeopardy people? Where are you at? I would love to do that. Because I was like, oh, my God, I know. I know this. I know this. And I'm just a little buzzer. I'm like, oh, I wish I had a buzzer. Have you seen the floor? No. It came on after the Super Bowl one year and we were like, this is stupid. Let's turn this off. And then like 20 minutes later, we're still watching it. We're like, how did you not get that? That's what I felt about the wall. Oh, I didn't see the wall, but I'm sure I'd have the same experience. So good. There was two people. One was doing trivia behind the scenes and then the other one was playing like Plunko, you know, Plunko, where you like drop something at the top. And then, yeah, they were doing that with balls. And see, you would think that you see a commercial for that. You're like, I'm too good to watch Plunko. I'm too good to watch the wall. Yeah. But then you then they put it in front of your face. It's like, wait, fuck. I kind of love this. I kind of want to make it a side quest to start getting on game shows. I would love that. You know, we were briefly Matt and I were interviewed to be on Wipeout Dynamic Duos. Oh, you can't contacted us. You two would have crushed. Thank you. Would you do it now? I don't know. I've never seen Wipeout. So when we got the call about it, we were like, um, maybe. And it was like I think it was their first season back when they like came back after something. Hiatus. Doesn't like Rob Gronkowski host it or something? No, his wife does. And someone else. No, not John Travolta. John Cena. Maybe. Maybe. But I feel like I don't know if I could do it because I think you get concussed watching these people get hit by these giant like cotton ball swabs. Right. And they're like bouncing and they wear helmets. Like, I don't know how much that's really doing when you get the wind knocked out of you into another foam block. Well, and see, I don't even think I would do Jeopardy because that would kind of humiliate me in a different way. So I don't know. I don't think either is in the cards for me. I know. I feel like there are some really tough questions where I'd sit there and I'd be like, not a clue. But I feel like I'd at least get like two right. Yeah. And I'd just be fine. I would love to see. And you train a little bit as well. Yeah. Sure. If you got the call. Some back at it again. But the white vans was one of the questions. Oh, I see. I said David. And then it's Daniel. Oh, yeah. Mm hmm. But we're back at it again. We are. We are getting into some chaotic, crazy relationship stories. I feel like the bread and butter of this show, essentially. I have to say, like, you kind of soft launched a couple of the titles to me a to hear what they're about. So, guys, I think it's going to be a banger. It's going to be incredible. And we did record a patron version of this as well. Stories again. Insane. Unreal. I love it when we have an episode. And then as I'm driving away, I'm recording a voice memo to people about it. I'm like, you won't believe this. The thing that just happened in the Reddit story that Morgan read me today. That's going to be every single one of these. Yeah. So without further ado, let's dive in. Oh, my God. This episode of Two Hot Takes is presented by Marisa's. The holidays are fun, but can we talk about how many outfits we all need now? So many things we're dressing up for gift exchanges, dinner parties, family gatherings. It's a lot of outfits to figure out. Well, Marisa's makes it easy. They've got versatile styles in sizes zero to twenty four, helping you put together outfits for all your holiday plans. Plus, they offer free styling at over eight hundred stores. No appointment needed. Just go in and you're going to get help making sure you find something that looks and feels amazing. Shop online at Marisa's dot com and use code THT10 for an extra ten percent off your total purchase. OK, up first for us here coming from our friends at Am I the Asshole titled Am I the Asshole for refusing to honor my boyfriend's family's tradition? My boyfriend, Eric, twenty nine male fake name and I, twenty seven female have been dating for three years. I've been dating for three years. For context, I've met his family and they are friendly. We don't meet them very often because they live in my boyfriend's home country. I don't want to reveal country names either for privacy reasons, but my boyfriend and I are of different nationalities and we both work in my country. The conflict happened during our last visit last weekend. We've been looking up houses to move into together and engagement rings while we were having dinner. We mentioned this to his family as it's a big step in our relationship. I've been looking up houses to move into together. I've been looking up houses to move The test includes how clean they keep a home, how well they can cook, their manners, etc. Basically life skills most people learn from childhood. I found it ridiculous because one, if I'm good enough for my boyfriend, he should be the one deciding it. And two, I don't fit in their targeted category. In his mom's words, you can't be a good stay at home wife and stay at home mom if you can't be a good homemaker. And she said, I'm not a good homemaker. I'm not a good homemaker. She wants to make sure of that. To be clear, his mom and all three of his brother's wives are stay at home moms. And although I respect their choice, I'm not quitting my career and did not under any circumstances make my boyfriend think I could compromise on that. I hate house chores and I would rather buy homemaking gadgets and hire staff no matter the cost than to have to do the chores myself. I told my boyfriend's mom all of this and it caused an argument that eventually ruined dinner for me. And she said, I'm not good at this. I'm not good at this. Boyfriend doesn't care whether I'm a working wife or a stay at home wife, but he thinks I should have just done the test because, quote, it's just a test. And it's not like they would reject me if I failed it. He thinks it's a fun tradition that everyone was looking forward to and I should have gone along with it anyways. My boyfriend thinks that I'm the asshole and suggested that I make this post. If I really am the asshole, I'm sure you guys will agree with me. I'm not going to let me know I am. So am I? I don't know if it really is like a silly thing where they wouldn't care if she didn't pass because the reaction to her saying she's going to continue her career leads me to believe it is a little bit more serious. Yeah. And I feel that it's on the boyfriend to be speaking up for her and to be advocating for her. It really shouldn't be on her to like have to have the conversation with the mother-in-law about all this. It should already be that's his family and he should be saying the lifestyle that he's going for. forward with to them and not her like she doesn't know them the way that he does I'm surprised he didn't warn OP about this test even being a thing because it's like if I knew my family did this and my mom's and my aunt's and all of my brother's wives have been doing this I would tell my partner and be like hey if this ever comes up yeah just you know it's a joke right just go along with it because he's expecting her to do it so there should be a warning yeah and he's like you should have done it you're the asshole like you didn't have to take it so seriously and it's like but they do mean it seriously like let's get something straight like right between me and you we can like kiki haha about this and okay it's a joke my family's a little overbearing but your family is taking this serious right and I think that you could be like oh if it's a joke just do it but I do think that this might be the first place that she draws the line about the expectations in their marriage and if she kind of gives into this when that just isn't what it's gonna be then who's to say that it won't come up again and again and again and maybe like nipping it now is kind of the only chance to do it before they get married I guess absolutely and that's such a good point to make too because if you find that you are setting this boundary of like I don't plan on quitting you know right I'll do maternity leave and then go back to work and we'll have child care and this and that yeah if you're finding that his family has a negative reaction to this conversation and he doesn't stand by your side you definitely don't want to go any further because right you do get married you do have kids and then you go back to work and his family makes these comments on the side of like well exactly your child isn't getting as much love as they could because you're not a stay-at-home mom right how many stories and how many people do you know in your life that do things a little bit different and they're constantly criticized for it from in-laws or friends and family like even in my family like a lot of our generation my my siblings and like my cousins have talked about daycare and the older generation is like daycare oh you don't want to miss out on that time and it's like yeah we can't afford to not have one of us working like that's the reality we live in yeah and it's like to then be shamed for those choices so I guess this is a good test of that like put the foot down now and see if you have a partner that's going to stand by your side because if not is this the guy you want right it's silly and it's a lie to be like oh if you just do it now then it'll go you're not going to and this won't ever come up again and it'll be a joke and you pass and it's fine like that's just not going to happen and I just it reminds me of times in my life in relationships where I've been like oh if I just like give a little bit on this sort of unreasonable thing you know it's coming from a place that I can understand so I should just sort of mold to this thing right now and then it won't be a problem it always just gets worse when I've done that always doing that thing for them because I'm like oh well I get you know this has happened to them before so I need to give a little bit on this and then once they realize that like they can trust me or like this thing is fine then they won't have that expectation anymore it never goes that way no if you give them an inch they take a mile yeah give a mouse a cookie he's gonna want 20 more he's gonna want a chocolate mousse cake chips ahoy better watch out he's coming for you yeah so I think one of my biggest questions hearing this too is like how are they testing op yeah are they putting her in a kitchen or dropping off all the kids like what does this really look like and so we do have a comment here from op just giving additional context on the tradition right more about the history of this tradition it's one of those things that one family member does and it's passed down for generations like baking a huge cake on the anniversary of someone important in the family not everyone in that country does it but it's a family tradition I don't know if my example makes sense but this is how I understand it I'm not sure if the results mean anything I don't know if it's a family tradition I don't know if it's a family tradition all I know is that if it's a cooking test for example I'd have to cook a nice meal for the family and receive their approval based on how delicious it is and that's the thing is that under certain circumstances this could be a fun like nice night like not even not the test part though but like just like cooking for the family you know but then like with this test context and just kind of the vibe of their expectations in general you know I don't know if it's a family it's too loaded and icky feeling OP does go on to say and trust me they will be convinced I'm trying to take revenge on them if they ate my food so there's that but now that you mentioned it his mom cooks like a five-star chef and so do his sister-in-laws the two whose food I've tasted maybe they passed the test question mark I don't know I'll have to ask my boyfriend I don't know if her boyfriend's giving her honest feedback to be honest like she's like oh I'll just ask my boyfriend a little I don't even know if it's true when he says if you don't pass it they'll still accept you we we just can't he's not giving her any information until actually faced with the situation where he has to no he doesn't want her cheating he's like no insider trading you gotta pass this otherwise you ain't getting a ring right like I think he's he's kind of seemingly on board with it a little bit I know and he's kind of otherwise I think he'd be advocating for her more on the sidelines in this relationship yeah or even in that moment he easily could have been like I don't know I don't want to be on the sidelines of this relationship I don't want to be like haha mom like we'll talk about it later I haven't proposed quite yet yeah like he could have also light-heartedly shut it down or moved past all of it yeah versus letting it take away from the weekend um we've got a lot of comments on this one the top comment with 54k upvotes I don't know if I've seen that high in quite some time they quote he thinks it's a fun tradition for women marrying into the family to be judged on their skills in traditional old-fashioned gender-conforming roles fine let him take a test he can rotate the tires change the oil and maybe rework the transmission on a car install a new muffler while he's at it build a desk then he can perform a series of tests of lifting heavy objects how are his plumbing skills he's gonna need to know how to fix a leaky faucet your father and brothers and males can judge him on his manliness and decide if he's going to be able to do it or not he's going to have to figure out how to do it if he is prepared to be a proper husband he might also need to prove he makes enough money to support you for when you have to stay home and perform all those wifely duties what an obnoxious family not the asshole right pick print out those bank statements let's have my family take a look at it take turns like is that what we're doing you know I actually crazy there's like a couple on love is blind where I don't I don't know I'm kind of like half pay attention when I'm watching so don't yell at me if I'm getting this wrong guys but like the guy is kind of expecting her to do all the household chores and then she's like but but you don't even want me to quit my job and he was like right true so I'm like it's almost like there's now a new traditional home where actually we're both working the same amount but you expect the woman to do all the household it's like it's gotten even worse it's worse in some cases I've seen so many stories or tiktoks people doing that lately I just like I've seen so many tiktoks of people posting and I'm like you posted that and then all the comments are like leave us out of it if you're not going to break up right it's just like I know and then they come back in a follow-up video and defend them it's like you just had millions hundreds of thousands at the very least people be like ew yeah may this love never find me and then you come double down and defend them I know it's tough I mean it's gonna be a rare really case though I think where someone immediately is like oh yep I'm gonna dump them now like I don't know it's tough no they know in the back of their head they're posting it because they know it's not right yeah but then it takes a lot for the glasses to come off sometimes those rose-colored goggles like yeah I feel like they kind of start slipping down your nose and then you're just like kind of still peeking over them trying to look through them a little bit all of a sudden they're like fully off and then you're like oh yeah this is gross wow yeah I like the way you visualize that yeah slipping down yeah they might have started on your forehead like using your sunglasses as a hairband totally in this room I need someone to come up with a headband that feels like sunglasses huh you know what I mean have you I like half the time I'm in the middle of like my house I'm on a meeting with like my team and I'm like headband sunglasses and I'm like it looks weird like I'm inside but it's just I need the headband that is sunglasses I know it's weird but it's just I need the headband that is sunglasses I know it's weird but I see what you're saying I actually I like the way sunglasses make my hair look as well when it pushes it back a little bit yeah I actually I'm fully on board with that can someone do it can someone please come up with that where it looks like a cute headband but feels like sunglasses putting it out there take my idea it's free it's free we just want the product free girl math yeah I give you idea you said my way so we do get an update oh oh okay oh how old was this post? this post is coming from 3 26 2023 oh my god okay wow a little old and then when is the update so the update is coming two days later okay several things have happened since my post and I received a request for an update so here it is this will likely be my only update I got a lot of insight from the votes and comments in my original post and I would like to thank you all for that I showed my boyfriend the responses and judgment on the original post most of you felt I was not the asshole and like you would guess he was a upset by this judgment. He tried to make his own post, but was the asshole so badly he deleted it in less than an hour. Anyways, I talked to my family and told them about the test. Yesterday, they called us home for dinner and told him they would let me take his family's test if he would let my dad and male cousins put him through a similar test. He blew up about how ridiculous it is because it's a family tradition for his family, but for mine, it's something we came up with at random. He ended up saying it's okay if I don't do the test, but my parents and I were being childish. He also let slip mid-argument that his youngest sister-in-law didn't want to do the test either, but look at her, the perfect wife. He said a lot of things, but long story short, he is still supportive of whatever I want to do with my life after marriage, but his family will never think the same way. However, I was starting to see a pattern, so I asked to take a break. It was great while it lasted. It's not a fun or cute update, but there you go. The following sentence is strike through? Stricken? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stroke, stroke, struck, struck through, struck, struck through. Yeah. Is that what you originally said? I'm not sure. Let's ignore what I said. Time for me to binge watch heartbreaking movies with a giant tub of ice cream. Once again, thank you for the comments and judgment. Okay. Happy ending. Yeah, that's a great ending. Happy ending. On to bigger and better things. I hope she stays there. It's been two days. I hope she continues with that breakthrough. Four years old now, I mean, at this point, so we don't really have, nothing's been out there since, but maybe she's out there right now listening, and then we can get another update that's like, oh, I dumped him. Yeah. I didn't want to marry into that family, and now I met my perfect person. Yay. Yeah, I think even in that update, there were more red flags about him with just the way that he was responding to everything. Yeah. I think he was hiding his expectations a little bit and sort of just saying what she wanted to hear, like saying the sister-in-law is the perfect wife. So it's like, so what is it that you think the perfect wife is? Oh, look at that little slip up there. It was a slip up. It was a slip up, and I think too, that's kind of why I don't think he warned her or kind of stopped it in the moment, because this could be a tactic of like, oh, we'll get married, and then we'll have kids, and then she'll stay home. Like, she'll change her mind. Yeah, I can change her mind. I can change her, or there would have been guilt tripping from him, and like, oh, my family, it's just my family, you know, their expectations, but meanwhile. But I'm a modern man. Yeah, and that's maybe what he wants based on that comment. Look at my sister-in-law now. Perfect wife. Yeah, I mean, that's not me, though. I'm also sure if you're like surrounded by everyone in your family, like the women catering to you hand and foot, part of you is like, damn, that sounds nice. I'd like to keep that going. Yeah. Sick. Right. If I never had to cook again. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, and he's like, no, I'd hate that. Like, I don't want that. That sounds horrible. Ew, I love cooking. Yeah. No, I mean, some people take great pride in those things. I'm a baker. I love baking, but I don't find cooking fun. So it's like, it's just not my cup of tea. I like cooking, but it's, I mean, it's like a joint activity, or like a sometimes you, sometimes them type thing. It's like, or sometimes we order, or sometimes we go. It's just, if there's one person doing everything, that's crazy. I agree. Well, you know, not. I'm with you. You know what else is? Nuance, nuance, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But let us know. I feel like there's some stories out there. If this has been you, where like your partner was like, totally, oh yeah, do what you want. But if you experienced a switch up, let us know. Yeah. I'm like, because I feel like that is somewhat common. Absolutely. You know what's not common? This next one. At least I don't think so. Again, maybe if you've experienced this. Oh, I have a feeling I know which one you're about to, I don't know the story, but I know the title. I think I know. My 25 male girlfriend, 21 female, has a humping problem. This is what I was hoping. I can't, you, you, you soft launch this to me. I couldn't get it out of my mind. Who is this and what is she doing? I know this is so weird and like I'm complaining about a dog, but no, this is about my human girlfriend. She has a problem and it's awkward, but I'm going to try to be mature. It was hot in the beginning, but now it just bothers me a lot. She has a humping problem. She didn't do it as much in front of me before, but she's gotten comfortable, so she doesn't hold back now. Basically, she masturbates every night, which is fine. She just has a high sex drive. Nothing wrong with that, but it's awkward. Like I walk into our bedroom to go to bed and she's there on the floor, humping her pillow. In our living room, she likes to sit on the arm of the couch and hump it while she watches TV. During sex, she lets me fuck her and I finish and then she will hump my thigh. My guys know after sex, that post-nut clarity comes through and honestly, I don't want a girl humping my fucking leg. I get turned off by sex and she doesn't want to do it before I finish because she says she feels pressured to finish quickly so I can get off too. I told her that wasn't the case and I don't care about her taking a lot of time, but she doesn't want to do it until I finish. I've woken up in the morning and she's humping my face as a joke to wake me up. I don't know if it's a joke to her, honestly. It sounds like it's a joke. I think the biggest part is the sex thing. We can't have normal sex. She likes oral, but she needs it for like an hour before she can finish from it and she says grinding is quick, so she prefers it. I don't even mind. I will go down on her for hours if she wants. It's just kind of annoying. It's like sex or masturbating, there's no difference for her. She's basically doing the same thing and she's not even up for experimenting. She was humping me once, and I held her so she'd stop, and I tried to just be playful, and she got mad at me and said she lost her orgasm and that I was an asshole. I don't know. She's not even up for something different. What do I do? I really don't know what to say about this. If roles were reversed, people would be like, he is unwell and he needs help and borderline. Can you imagine your partner waking you up by humping your face? What? I don't even think it needs to even be if roles were a reverse thing. I'm sure the comments are saying that about her. No, but just imagine. I think it's like my head kind of goes there because looking at some of the comments, a lot of the comments blame him for this problem. You're not satisfying her. All along those lines, and we'll get into some of them, but I'm mind blown that people on Reddit would even go that direction. Yeah. I think it's because also it's humorous in a way. It's like, she just won't stop humping. And also like, compares it to like, I'm not talking about a dog. I'm talking about my girlfriend. So it's kind of like, like kind of funny. Yeah. Like I walk into the room and she's on the ground humping a pillow. I know. Which is technically fine. Like someone masturbating every day, I think is fine. I think he doesn't like the way she's doing it. But then when he talks about like, randomly on the couch and stuff, I'm like, is it constantly throughout? It feels like it's a constant. Yeah. I don't know. There's not like, necessarily an improper place to masturbate in your own home. As long as people aren't there and you're, you know, in a, I don't know, safe consenting environment. But I'm like, envisioning him just like trying to watch like a football game on like, Monday night or whatever. And then she just comes up and starts humping the couch. It's, it's almost like desensitizing him also just, I don't know. It feels like there's kind of a time and a place, your bedroom humping a pillow. Okay. Why did you have to put the pillow on the floor? Why couldn't you have the pillow on the bed and still hump the pillow on the bed? I don't know. I keep thinking of like someone doing the worm when I picture it. And that's, it's really fucking with me. But I'm just like, I don't know. He hasn't, did he mention in the post, like, have they talked about it? Or has he just like kind of playfully tried to get her to stop? There's no mention that he's ever really addressed it. I think. I think that this is, yeah, like a thing where there needs to be a serious conversation of like, hey, I'm not sexually into humping. If this is something you need to get off, maybe we're not meant to be. Like, I don't like the humping. Maybe find a real humper that is a humper like you. Someone else who loves humping, I guess. I think there is someone out there. I'm sure there's a guy out there who would want to hump the way she humps. I think so. I was thrown off too about him just saying like, she lets me fuck her. I was just like, that's a weird way of putting it. I think, I think that's coming from him being like, she doesn't enjoy any sex. Like, the humping is literally the only thing that gets her off. Right. Basically. So she'll like, let, let me have sex with her too. But that's not something that she's liking. Yeah. More of it's to appease me, which doesn't necessarily feel fun. And he kind of gets into that. And then it sounds like neither of them likes what the other likes. I feel like they're just really incompatible. Yeah. Like sexually. and maybe more there's a comment here if you lay on your back and she straddles you lay your dick on your belly she opens her labia and can hump your dick it's really great sensation for both of you like people are really like sex therapists being their way out of this and it's just like but is that is that the issue here no they do it's i mean i think she's got a very unique kink which we've had before and we've had the other person not be into it and i mean yeah i guess i don't know we don't really have like indication from him about like how much he wants to make this relationship work and so i think if he were like i really love her i just can't like get turned on from what turns her on then maybe the sex advice comes into play in a positive way of like this is maybe how you both could enjoy this thing and maybe that could be helpful well and i think people are really trying to understand this too people are like you know women girls will typically do what was able to help them achieve their first sex life and then they continue to replicate that because that's what they know works because it can be so hard yeah then people are like your girlfriend is a compulsive masturbator and then there's a response that's basically like completely agree i had a former partner that masturbated frequently and watched a lot of porn this ruined and ended our sex life and relationship then you have people that are recommending you know again more sex advice sex toys right all sorts of things i mean it's it's like it is hard yeah because across the board here i yeah it's all about the sex advice it's hard to get like a total feel for how he's feeling like it like because of the way in which he wrote it yeah it's more of just like my girlfriend does this thing that i don't find hot and it and so and what do i do about that you know and i'm like what do you want though like what do you want out of this post like do you want advice to make it work or do you want to know if you're an asshole for not liking it like not the asshole definitely yeah no you're not like i mean he's coming to relationship advice and i i don't think you're going to overreacting because kind of like i said like i feel like getting woken up in the morning by someone humping your face like that does feel like assault like to me i'm that feels like yeah if there's not a prior conversation about being okay with that then yes yeah i'm like that just feels kind of crazy um and again people are like maybe get her a toy and that will curb the morning face hump sessions and they go on if the post come clarity says she's gotta go then bitch gotta go she's horny my g that's it get that girl a vibrator stat i don't see the problem here honestly everyone has their kink their likes let her have hers really is it that bad come on bruh yeah i don't know i've been in relationships where the morning thing is already a pre-consented thing that we've talked about you know totally fine so that's how again i'm like i need more information from op about this seems like how uncomfortable are you because if this is like something you've told her you're uncomfortable with then this is actually really bad this is horrible and you you gotta go yeah if this is just something that you've like privately just not found hot i think that's like a different story and i don't know which story this is yeah we do have quite a bit of comments from op i'm gonna get into the one that's technically the best comment right now and it only has 969 upvotes i'll take my downvotes but what the hell if a woman posted that her boyfriend wouldn't stop humping her stuff or even humping her off all over the house people would be calling for his head people are asking what you are doing wrong and telling you to give her more get her toys address her needs all caps his needs aren't being met either at this point he doesn't feel valued during sex he feels like her sex toy so many times i've seen this posted by women and the men get crucified for their masturbation habits especially if it affects the couple's sex life they call for him to not watch porn not masturbate so his sensation comes back some people even say to leave but here it's all gravy no he already feels used he feels a disconnect because she essentially is just using him to get off not actively enjoying the actual love making she's not willing to meet his needs she's not willing to compromise she's not willing to stop doing something that makes her loved one uncomfortable what i see isn't just that she humps everything in sight what i see is her masturbation habits are ruining his sex life and his overall drive to her that's a quick slope to the end of the relationship i'd be really creeped out if i came home and kept finding my husband going to town on our shared couch or fucking pillows just wherever he wants especially if i've asked him to stop my dude have a serious serious talk about this about the intimacy about the disconnect the way you feel and what you're thinking consider how far you can really go with someone that doesn't meet your needs doesn't care to meet your needs and absolutely has no interest in trying something new together again what what is difficult about this story and maybe i missed it was like him saying he's asked her to stop let's get into some of his comments and see if there's any more clarity yeah because obviously the initial post you know someone says i never comment on these things but honestly why is no one like what the fuck about her humping things while doing normal activities like watching tv i don't just masturbate while doing the dishes this is so weird her not being even a little secretive about masturbating is also super weird and op responds okay not vigorously humping for something more like she will sit on the armchair casually and rub a little like she's trying to be discreet but come on obviously i'm noticing her grinding on the fucking couch right next to me okay i think we're we were imagining the humping a little more comically but still no but that almost makes it feel even more off and like this is kind of more of a compulsive thing yeah because it's like you're trying to be secretive but like you're masturbating while we're just trying to watch love island yeah the same op that asks the question responds back honestly this might be downvoted but my thought is that she has an addiction and it isn't going to go away if she doesn't want it to if you can't go 24 hours without an orgasm there's an issue clearly it's bleeding into her romantic life just my take op does have a comment here it's only in front of me so she's not trying to expose other people to this she's not doing it subtly at dinner or you know what have you but op does say i'm gonna talk to her about this there's another comment here does she have your consent to wake you up by humping you op responds yes this is not that kind of post lol it'd just be a bit more endearing if she didn't already hump everything lol okay i think that that helps clarify the tone a little bit more because we're kind of like teetering on the edge here of like non-consensual versus consent yeah like is this just a thing he doesn't find hot and that should have been in the post though i think so too because a lot of people are then like this is sexual abuse like some people are yeah they're taking it as he said it like i'm not liking this she's waking me up by humping my face it's like but okay you you just said you have consented and i think that that's the thing about the initial post that you get the feeling of like this is kind of light-hearted but then when you think about it when you try to fill gaps of a post sometimes you're like is this actually a little bit darker is this actually like something like a little bit scary and like not okay and so i think that you know yeah that clarification should have been kind of immediate of like yeah i'm fine with this it's just not as endearing because she humps everything and i wish she was just humping me 100 that should have been body of the post like i i think it's really hard with reddit sometimes where you only get clarification in the comments it's like no no like that is yeah that is a make or break that's why my initial response to that is like yeah in relationships that's been something we've talked about and was okay so that's why like i'd like to know whether that's something that's okay with them too because that's so hot for so many people so it's like again even in his own words here like i would kind of like it if she wasn't humping everything else yeah so yeah that really does change the context of this a little bit but again i think have a conversation maybe she thinks you find it hot last comment he responds to which is seven years ago is someone basically being like oh shit this is an old post uh-huh basically like what would she think if you masturbated around her all the time yeah and op was like she'd find it hot right like she'd be into it but that's where we leave it i think that maybe the sex advice actually is helpful then because there was some comment about like if you do it this way she'll like it and you might like it too maybe that is what they need to hear or maybe she does have a sex addiction i don't know i know a lot of people who masturbate every day to be honest yeah not that i'm like having active conversations with everybody but just you know things come up i go through phases like i go through phases especially like depending on what time of my cycle where i'm like i'm so stressed out i'm just gonna take a little me time sure and a little mid midday break and i've gone through both i sometimes you you go weeks or months and that but then yeah sometimes it's every day i don't know i don't know who knows it depends on hormones what's going on whatever's going on whatever's going on but yeah they definitely need to have a conversation step one i'm glad that op like came into this asking questions and asking for advice and like maybe there is a way they can make this work or maybe they're sexually incompatible it's kind of hard he even said like if it was reversed and i was masturbating in front of her all the time she'd like that yeah so maybe there is a way they can bring these things together step one i don't know conversation getting to the root of this seeing if she is willing to explore because she is young too she's 21 yeah i literally don't think i had like an orgasm until i was like 22 maybe she recently discovered orgasms and she's like holy shit this rocks like yeah but maybe it'll pass no that's where i'm like i literally have a friend who's now like 20 late 20s and still hasn't had an orgasm so i think it's really hard and you have to discover things and like how to make your body work and tick and so maybe if she doesn't have any toys maybe that is a good solution and that's yeah can we find other measures that make sex more enjoyable for both of us right that at the same time yeah like incorporated with each other because maybe she's embarrassed maybe she's like feeling like oh i don't want to involve a toy and like i don't want to you know make myself look less than because i can't orgasm and like honestly having someone go down on you for an hour like that isn't really a great solution maybe there needs to be more foreplay to get to that point and then you go down on her for 15 20 minutes because like i think when you're that young too having someone go down on you feels really vulnerable like you're at least for me like i was super self-conscious in that well and we kind of she kind of says that too she kind of does say i'd rather do it after because i'm self-conscious about how long it'll take if you haven't gotten off yet yeah i think there could be potential here for them to get through this humping problem would i personally like it if my partner was humping things often would i find it hot no but do i think that if it just comes down to liking the sensation of grinding that we could find a way to get past it i probably i don't even find like like him being like yeah she humps my leg during sex i don't even find that that odd no like no that's pretty that's pretty normal i would say like everyone loves a little friction now and again yeah so it's just like it's how much i think the frequency is now like you're taking the the joy out of it by you know you know when you get a little too much candy and then all of a sudden you're like i don't really want candy anymore i don't know this one has been a whirlwind of a ride whirlwind this has been a ride this could go so many different directions but that's the thing is when there's op's initial post doesn't mention we've had a conversation about this doesn't mention it makes me feel bad doesn't it's i got scared i'm like this is bad you guys this is like really bad but now we're but now he's like lol it's fine i just at least the way we're reading this at least the way we are now reading this and there's no mention now as we get here that there's anything other anything other bad stuff going on i wish this one had an update i know damn that's so interesting i i actually really like stories where it ends up being just this kind of odd random discrepancy between the two of them that's actually potentially solvable yeah god i have two stories where i could really take you on another ride this was like such a vibe this these are actually a lot of stories that are like emotional rides where you don't know how you're gonna feel by the end of it there's a title in that yeah there's a title for today's theme in that because i didn't really have one emotional roller coaster yeah literally it's it's like an emotional roller coaster or like whiplash where you're like oh this is bad and is it that bad and whiplash is a good one yeah emotional whiplash mm-hmm whoo there you go you didn't we discovered this together and i'm so curious about people's opinions on this one and like what their comments are going to be because i think because there are so many different ways you can take this story people who have different experiences are going to have different feelings about it absolutely and it is clear that the the overall vibe of the post definitely changed over time too where i think this happens a lot on reddit post goes up the initial comments are like kind of crazy and maybe not the best advice and then the more genuine take sane comments come in and so when you see the top ones it's like wait no what the hell like how are you guys all being funny about this but then op is then commenting adding more context yeah so it really this one was a ride yeah this one was an absolute ride and i think if you're gonna post on reddit just please include the context we need in the body of the post i know don't make us search the comments too i feel like my number one question in a lot of them is have they had a conversation about this yet include it that has a lot of people have had a conversation that i'm all like that all the time is left out of the initial post and it matters so much toward what kind of advice or like how i would feel about each party would be is like have you tried talking yet just comma just a little combo communicate communicate or if you haven't let us know yeah step one yeah chat this episode is brought to you by state farm you know that one friend the person you message when you need advice on your unhinged boss intense mother-in-law or just what to order for dinner well like that friend state farm is here to support you with a state farm agent you know someone is there to help protect what's important and with so many coverage options it's nice to have help finding what fits for you go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their local agents like a good neighbor state farm is there okay moving on to this next one coming from our very own to our take subreddit by the asshole for refusing my partner's ex's request for low to no physical contact at family gatherings oh my god i'm on the edge of my seat my partner 31 male and his ex 32 female have been separated for almost two years he had already filed for divorce before he and i 27 female met my partner and i have now been together for over a year there is still a painful history surrounding the end of their marriage and the beginning of our relationship which she associates with betrayal they also share children and she remains very close with his family about four months ago we started attending gatherings at his parents house where his ex is also present recently she messaged both of us saying that our pda at these gatherings makes her feel disrespected angry and emotionally dysregulated she said seeing us together reminds her of the betrayal and disrespect she experienced during the last two years she asked us to keep the family space quote neutral and cordial i was confused because i already made a conscious effort to limit physical contact with my partner around her our affection has mainly consisted of sitting beside each other casual touching hugs and on one incident of my sitting on the side of his leg we are not doing anything sexual or making out in front of everyone when i asked her to clarify she said she wanted low to no physical contact around her she said things like leg pats or back rubs were manageable but she did not want to see us sitting in each other's laps or wrapped in each other's arms i took some time to think about it and ultimately told her i couldn't agree to low or no physical contact these gatherings are uncomfortable and anxiety inducing for me i'm still becoming a part of a family environment that feels new and my partner is the person i feel safest with small amounts of physical contact with him help ground me i told her i would continue keeping our affection appropriate for a family setting and would be mindful about things like sitting in his lap or being wrapped around him for an extended period however i wasn't willing to stop normal non-stop physical contact with him i told her i would continue keeping our affection appropriate like sitting together casual touching or brief hugs she replied quote i simply asked for consideration i too am tired of being uncomfortable so others can experience ease and comfort if this continues to be an issue i will remove myself from family gatherings until i choose to be around again end quote i understand that seeing us together may still be painful for her and i at the same time they've been separated for almost two years we've been together for over a year and she chooses to attend these gatherings knowing we will be there as a couple she's not asking any other couples to limit their physical contact i already feel hyper aware of everything i do around her because i worry that something small will upset her i feel like i offered a reasonable compromise no excessive pda but i will not act disconnected from my partner simply because she is present if she isn't ready to go i will not act disconnected from my partner simply because i'm ready to see us interact normally i think stepping away from some gatherings may be healthier than expecting us to avoid normal physical contact am i the asshole for refusing her request i definitely don't think op is an asshole i do have empathy for both of them though i think this is kind of like a hard situation for both parties like i don't know kind of just saying like it's been two years as if like she should be totally fine and not still emotional i think i don't think that's necessarily true like i think two years is still pretty recent for a divorce and also it's like at the same time i get what op is saying about wanting to like be able to feel connected to her partner and like i don't think she should have to stop that either but it would be hard for the other person too i don't know i think it seems kind of crappy for both of them i know and it is really interesting because like do they have kids - I think so, yeah. - They have, yeah, they share children. - That's why. - Yeah, so they have the kids. they share she remains very close with his family and it's like that is such an ideal setting to be able to still do holidays with yeah both your parents they're like that's great for these kids and so I'm like you're coming in you've been together for a year just a year yeah you're not married why not just make it a little more easy and I think like her even saying like back rubs are okay and leg pats are fine but I'm like you did say you sat on his lap like that would that would be uncomfortable for me yeah and at the same time I feel like there's something missing here because the betrayal part that's being kind of miscommunicated what's this betrayal because if we're going off your timeline they've been separated for almost two years he had already filed for divorce before he and I met okay and now you've been together for over a year right where's the betrayal coming from was he cheating with someone else or like right where's this painful history surrounding the end of their marriage and the beginning of our relationship which she associates with betrayal well I would also there might be something else but even with what they're giving us like this isn't two years they've been divorced like it's two years since they separated and then he filed yeah and even like filing that doesn't mean that you're it takes a while even from filing I'm pretty sure right I don't know I'm watching the h3 stuff play out right now right and I feel like she posted her instagram statement and filed for divorce like a couple days later well yeah but after filing don't you have like all the proceedings and stuff before it's actually official yeah and like you're still pretty wrapped up in each other's worlds you are it's not instant you're divorced and we're going to talk about it soon on an episode coming up with Jen Hamilton but like in certain states you have to remain separated for over a year before you can even get divorced i was seeing that so she's petitioning to like have that law changed now yeah that's amazing and so there's there's rules state by state and different countries and things like that so yeah they still could have been very intertwined right living together still maybe like we don't even know yeah and they do have kids together and it's a hard situation and like i don't know for for a marriage and even some like relationships that don't make it to marriage a year of separation when you meet someone like that is going to be painful for the other person yeah i'd be crushed it's and they're young yeah 31 32 and they share kids so like the kids are what under 10 yeah like they're still really young like this is all seemingly like very fresh and a pretty quick explosive ending to their marriage i don't think op's being an asshole but i also think that like this other person is sort of just asking for a little bit of like sensitivity and kind of just like hoping to be have her feelings considered in this because it is a really hard situation and it's like she's not it didn't come across as like demanding or like insulting in the way that it was worded like her request about the intimacy it just kind of sounded straightforward and i don't know if it's a good thing or not i understand op2 being like i'm meeting all these people if i were to act kind of like strangers with my partner then i'd feel even like less involved in things and i'd feel more awkward at these spaces like i understand where both of these people are coming from and i think it's sad to hear yeah on both ends i'm very curious if she's pissing on him though i'm very very right is op being like a reliable narrator i don't think so because guess what we have we have another post from op that comes one year ago oh the post we read was just from 23 days ago oh uh-huh oh wait so people sleuthed and they found an older post yeah barbie opposite of an update uh-huh barbie privilege posted this as the top comment and it's a screenshot of op's post oh my gosh and then says op knows she was the other woman and is trying to pretend she was wasn't here i just got for sympathy i just got chills wait oh my god and then the next comment down is they filed for divorce not they are divorced that's what i was saying op was very covert with her words i exactly exactly and that's where i'm like i think i think she is like she's being like i just need comfort from my partner it's like i get that but i also think like you sitting on his lap is not comfort like if i sat on my husband's lap in front of his whole family i would actually feel embarrassed i agree and i know like that's whatever floats your boat do what do you in your relationship but like i then i was kind of like you sat on his lap like wait and that to me feels like you're marking your territory didn't she say i don't sit on his lap but i did one time sit on his leg yeah it's the same thing yeah you sat on his leg not his lap were you straddling one thigh oh what does that look like what is that and what way were you facing wait what is the screenshot of the older post so the older post is coming from a subreddit called unsent unread unheard and it's titled i want to apologize to her oh my god i've been sitting with this for a while and though it may never reach you or even be something you want to hear i needed to write it i want to apologize from one woman to another i'm sorry for the pain and hurt that may have come from my part in all of this i never set out to disrupt or insert myself into your life or marriage i got involved with someone who told me he was emotionally separated disconnected and struggling deeply in his relationship i believed what i was told and i acted from a place of trust not malice still regardless of the circumstances or intentions i know the impact of the relationship and i know the impact of the relationship may have caused pain and for that i'm truly sorry i imagine this situation has been incredibly difficult for you and as someone who's been carrying my own heartbreak i don't take yours lightly this letter is not about blame or justification it's just an acknowledgement that behind everything there's a woman who deserved honesty and respect and i'm sorry for any role i played in making that harder i've grown through this i've learned and i've hurt too but more importantly i'm sorry for any role i played in making that harder i've grown through this i've realized the importance of being accountable whether or not this ever reaches you i hope life brings you healing clarity peace and somebody who cherishes you i'm truly sorry for the hurt i have caused i'm so gagged by this story this is unbelievable i i literally i literally when you're saying that i was like separated for two years and then like using the word filed later like those are very different like those that doesn't mean that i'm not actually divorced no my jaw is just like stuck hanging open right now oh my god and so it's like okay so did she just over this time like drink the kool-aid and like more and more be like okay yeah she's the enemy like they really were separated and like got further from it or like has she had to delude herself into this because she knows she's admitted to it being a betrayal and then in this post now she's like for some reason she thinks she was betrayed it's really i'm wondering because this post is coming a year later essentially i'm wondering if now she's found out more details to be like well he filed for divorce before i ever met him right but like they're not divorced and so i'm wondering if like there's new information that kind of changes that old post but it's very clear they're not divorced it's very clear that based on that this other woman the the wife was extremely hurt in all of this and and said something's fishy something i don't know what something is fishy well the phrase like i i didn't set out to like insert myself in your marriage or whatever it was she said she said in your marriage that makes me think they weren't separated yeah and him being like we were deeply emotionally uninvested or whatever the hell he said i'm like oh my god yeah that's like the easiest thing anyone can possibly say about wanting to have an affair he told me he was emotionally separated from her and she said she was separated from him and i'm like oh my god disconnected and struggling deeply in his relationship that sounds one side that doesn't sound like there was a conversation about a separation that sounds like internally in his head he'd started separating uh-huh yeah that doesn't give oh we're going through a rough patch oh we're separated oh i'm about to be divorced oh i already filed for divorce before i met you yeah no that gives i'm unhappy and trying to have an affair emotionally separated yeah that's not physically separated yeah geographically separated that's that's nothing that's in your head did your wife even know was she feeling it damn the wife the ex-wife's like message now too it was so much more respectful than they deserved in the way she put it super cordial you know like back rubs are okay like this is okay i just would really prefer it if you didn't do this well and depending on how young the kids are yeah this could be so confusing for them and i'm like in my head now i just start going down the rabbit hole i'm like they share kids did she have baby and he was just like peace out i'm gonna get it somewhere else like how did this all go down i want her to find this i also feel like it's the other layer of it is that it's should be kind of a joint decision between the parents of when the new partners even introduced to the kids. Like within reason, obviously you can't like forever hold it off, but I think it's like, it is confusing to the kids. And it also is a hard moment for the kids because it finalizes that their parents aren't getting back together. And like, that's a tough emotional thing too. So it's like, that also needs to be a conversation between the two of them. I don't know. Absolutely. I'm unreliable narrator. Oh my God. Really? Yeah. Does OP reply to being called out? I'm not seeing any comments from OP. Me and Bailey will do a deep dive real quick. There's no comments. No. Oh, she has commented. She's commented a few times. We have a comment. She's actually commented a lot. Oh my God. Is she defensive? Yeah. And all of them are getting like hundreds of comments. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all of them are getting like hundreds of downvotes. Oh my God. Okay. Okay. We got comments. We found dirt. We found dirt. We got a mud puddle. Oh my God. So I'm like, I got to load this whole parent comment because I think this thread she's going back and forth with someone is just like tea. She's like in the weeds about it. So OP says, my other post wasn't me admitting I was an affair partner. It was me when I had no intention to be a part of it in the way I did. He didn't cheat on her with me. They were separated. And someone goes, mama, you made the whole post admitting to being the affair partner and hemming and hawing over whether to tell her or not. Just own up to it and be honest going forward. Why would you lie to your own self? That's Barbie privilege coming in. That's the one that posted the initial screenshot on the two hot takes post of her other post. Oh my God. I this is insane. OP is, is out there right now. OP girl. So OP responds. It was a post debating if I should apologize for the unintentional hurt I caused her. She knew we were seeing each other. Someone goes, that's not what you said in the comments of the other post. You indicated she didn't specifically know about you. OP responds. I think it said something along the lines of with the information that is coming about. I'm not sure she did know about me, but since that post, I'm not sure she did know about me. I'm not sure she did know about me. Lots of moving parts took place after that post. And I mean, that's fair, but at the same time, I don't know. OP goes on to say like, cause people are like, can you please elaborate on all of this? Like basically by your own admission, your partner's a liar, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the writer says they weren't together. They were having talks about possibly trying to fix their marriage, which was also communicated to me. Oh girl, that's worse. Oh my God. You just said the worst thing you could possibly say. They were in talks about fixing their marriage. You're breadcrumbing the fuck out of her. This is terrible. When this conversation came up, I bowed out of their relationship. I have had a conversation with her about my part in all of it. And she doesn't blame me or feel as though the end of their marriage is my fault because the truth is their marriage ended before I even came into the picture. Okay. But that's not what you just said. This timeline is so messy. Cause she's saying like, after they were together, they had conversations about trying to fix their marriage. And then she bowed out because of that. So clearly the relationship was not over by the time it started with you. They were talking about fixing it after you. Yeah. And people go on like a couple of questions, like in your post, you indicated he was lying to you and that's why you broke up. OP goes, the line was specifically about a divorce being filed. At that time, I couldn't find it online. I have since found it. That alone made me think all of what I was being told was a lie. How could it not? I also didn't think she knew as much about me as I thought she did. She definitely did this. I don't know. I have screenshots from their conversations about him deciding what he was going to do, work on their marriage or continue dating me. How about some time alone? How about a little bit of time alone? Oh my God. I hate this guy. I do. I'm getting the vibe that OP has convinced herself. Or like a combination of her convincing herself and him convincing her. Something has taken place in the last year. I do believe OP believes what she's saying to be true because otherwise it's like no one knows who you are. You don't have anything to prove to these people by arguing about this. It feels like they genuinely do believe what they're saying and they're not trying to lie just to get people to agree with them. But it is by their own admission, very confusing the way that they're setting up this timeline. I think, and I think that's on him. Yeah. I think there's times when like I've dated people and they've, they've told me things that like in my gut, I don't feel line up or it feels like he's lying, but like you want to believe it because you care about the person and you want to continue forward. Yeah. So I think our writer here is like really having a hard time going through that. But like even looking at this where it's like, if I saw screenshots of my now boyfriend talking with his what should I do? Should I fix our marriage or continue dating this other person? It's like, you didn't really like me either. You didn't really respect me either. Yeah. If you were also talking to your wife, wife about fixing your marriage. Yeah. This is a tough one. This is a thing where it's like, if, if OP were a real friend of mine in real life, I'd be like, what are you doing? Like you have to get out of this. He's got you mixed up. You don't know left from right anymore. Like she, and she felt so bad about this situation a year ago and like seemed to have a totally different take and like moral compass on it all. And like the longer you're in it, like it's just, I don't know, drowning her in it, in the, in the Kool-Aid. Yeah. I'm just like, this is crazy. So crazy. Apparently they are divorced now. And with all that said, it's like you wrote this whole post about how much you hurt her. And so you do have an awareness of that. You're like intimately familiar with her pain because you've been there through the entire divorce process. So ultimately when it comes back to this Reddit post and just this one request from the white, from the ex-wife, just honor that, like have a little bit of compassion. I know that you understand what she's feeling. You've like seen the pain that she's experiencing. Like, yeah, just have a little grace. Yeah. And OP says like, we don't kiss or do anything sexual. I'll give him a hug when I start to feel overwhelmed. But I feel like if you're feeling overwhelmed, maybe time and place, maybe this is too soon. And like, I do think it's interesting, like the wife going to all of the family gatherings. And then in my head, I'm like, is she literally still breastfeeding? Like, is that why she's going to the family gatherings? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't all these family gatherings because in her head, she's like, I'm not enjoying this. I'm finding this uncomfortable. I don't want to be around the two of you. It's painful. Well, and yeah, they're so young that it's like you would imagine if they have multiple kids that they would be on the younger side. Yeah. And so I'm like, she again might be going above and beyond to make sure kids have a relationship with his family and she's there facilitating this. And it's like, I don't know. But I think you're right. Maybe it's too early for you to be there. Like, I don't think after one year with a partner, you need to be at all of their holidays and all their events. Go to go see your family for a holiday. Like, you don't have to be doing all that just yet. And then you add on this awkwardness and like this layer of making someone else uncomfortable, making yourself uncomfortable. It's like, why are you pushing it so early for all of these things? So odd. Yeah. There's one comment that OP responds to. Everyone gets to be uncomfortable in this situation. Time will pass and it will all get better. And OP says, we all are and we all hope it passes. I mean, yeah, that's of course what we're going to hope for with this situation. But yeah, it does. It does sound like a little bit more convoluted than it's being advertised. Yeah. And I honestly, I hope she the wife gets a partner and I hope wife gets to bring this partner to all the family gatherings, too. I hope it does end up in a happier, better situation where she ends up, you know, finding a person that doesn't do this to her because I would be so distraught if my husband went from, oh, let's fix our marriage to, nah, just kidding. I got a girlfriend. Yeah. I mean, he's an asshole and he's an asshole for bringing OP to these events, too. Like, I don't know. It's knowing how it played out, knowing everyone's feeling, how you heard her. It's too soon. Yeah. Will it always be like this? No. But like, give it a little bit more time. And more context on kids, like kids ages never mentioned. I'm feeling like that might be a little intentional. There's another one here. Like, I know they were separated when he told me he was going to try and reconcile. We broke things off. I'm also not trying to compete with her in a popularity contest. I have no reason to, nor do I want to. They had a very codependent relationship. We have already reduced any PDA to a complete minimal. If you watched us from afar, you wouldn't even think we were a couple. And she's asked us to reduce intimacy, even further. I think people fail to ask more questions or dig into the whys of things. Not everything is black and white. No marriage and relationship is black and white. People do many things for many reasons and people make assumptions as to why without ever asking why. Okay, girl. They had filed for divorce a month before I met him. Divorces can stall and take long periods of time if both parties can't agree. It's common. Well, it sounds like they did stop agreeing on it because then they were going to try to make things work. He told me he was checked out of his marriage and ready to move on. They lived in two separate houses and were separated. He was dating other people before I met him. As the weeks passed, he started having second doubts because of the kids. He did tell me he was going to try and work on the marriage for the sake of the children. We ended things when this came up. I blocked him and went no contact with him for months and during that time their marriage came to a complete end. The ball was already moving when I met him. My apology to her was my part in the difficulty of trying to save him. I played because he developed feelings for me and she was aware. Not because I was the mistress or knowingly allowing him to cheat on her. They were not together when I was seeing him. I mean, yeah, I believe OP. Like, I understand kind of what she's trying to say with all of that additional context. Yeah. But I think, again, where it gets messy is that there was this weird overlapping time, I guess, like after you got together. So I guess like not even contesting that when they first met. He was acting as a single guy. Like, obviously, that's not OP's responsibility either to like, I don't know, like she was single. This guy has been dating, has filed for divorce, is living separately. But the emotional complications. I also would love to know the exact timeline. Like, how long ago was it that they tried? She's saying she's been with him for a year. Is that including the first part or is that like only ever since getting back together? So like, yeah. Last year that you've been together, is that when they tried to make it work again? That's a really good point. Like, this is all very fresh regardless. Yeah. I'm very, very intrigued by this one. Yeah. Couple other comments, but like not really diving further. Again, just trying to make it very clear to everyone. Like, they lived in two different houses and had been separated for over a month when I met him. But I think it's like overall coming from like the wife's perspective. Yeah, they were separated for a month before you met him, but he was already going on these dates. And then in the same breath, he's going to her, let's fix this. Let's try. And it's just like, yeah, the whiplash of it all. Yeah. And you, by all of this, probably didn't have it easy either. Like, it's messy. It's unfortunate. I think for the sake of all of you, all parties involved, especially kids who are seemingly probably young kids, I would just try to be as cordial as you can be. You can sit on his lap, make out as much as you want. At home. But like, right. You're being involved in this family. And that in itself is a gift. There's a lot of people that would be like, it's too soon. You're not coming. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. There's some people that don't meet their partner's kids for years. Yeah. Years. So absolutely. I would just try to not rock the boat and just proceed forward with as much grace as you can, because there's clearly a lot of people hurting here. I would also say his family would probably like you more and respect you more if you're not doing that in front of the ex-wife, too, because they probably feel a way about the situation. There was a comment where OP said, like, we've asked other family if we make them uncomfortable. No. But also, is anyone going to be that honest with you guys? Yeah. I would just err on the side of caution. And I'm like, if you need a hug, pull him into another room, give him a hug. Yeah. Walk back out like. Go to sticky one. It's tough. It is so tough. But OK, moving along. OP, if you're out there, we would love an update. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know that one friend, the person you message when you need advice on your unhinged boss, intense mother-in-law, or just what to order for dinner? Well, like that friend, State Farm is here to support you. With a State Farm agent, you know someone is there to help protect what's important. And with so many coverage options, it's nice to have help finding what fits for you. Go online at statefarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their agents like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. This is definitely not a hot take, but a sausage McMuffin with egg is the perfect breakfast. No notes. And somehow it just got even better. Right now, you can get a sausage McMuffin with egg plus hash browns and a small coffee for just five dollars only at McDonald's for a limited time. So the only thing left to debate is whether the hash brown gets eaten first or saved for last. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Prices may be higher for delivery. This episode is brought to you by Credit Karma. Here's a spicy one. Quote, I've been seeing someone for a while now and things are getting serious. They asked me about my credit score. I lied and said I had an 800, but I actually have no idea. Am I the asshole? Okay, don't be so hard on yourself, but you probably should check. Their Credit Karma app is the easiest, freest way to track your credit. Like you actually know what you're doing. You don't have to be so hard on yourself. With updates and simple breakdowns that explain your scores and personalized recs on how to make them better. No need to crash out over credit scores. Just try Intuit Credit Karma. Yeah, we would love it if you dumped him as well. That's true. Yeah, that's true. Trigger warning on this next one, friends. It does contain a pretty heavy conversation about a relationship with emotional abuse and it gets a little dark. So if you can't handle that today, please skip ahead. It is coming from r slash relationship advice. It's titled my boyfriend, 27 male is getting increasingly angry with me, 22 female for getting pregnant. How do I even begin to navigate this? Hope it's okay. I use a throwaway account for this. Boyfriend and I have been dealing with my unexpected pregnancy. I'm on the pill. Neither of us saw this coming. By the time we found out I was too far along for an abortion. I was increasingly sad and still, sometimes. We had some really good conversations and decided we will keep the baby. He came around to that idea a lot faster than I did. And for the past months, he and I have been trying to get each other through this and trying to get ready for the baby. He was really sweet at first, even more than he usually would be. But now he's slowly gone from annoyed to furious with me. I will never know which J I'm going to get. Sometimes there's no issue. Sometimes just looking at me. I'm not going to be the same. I'm not going to be the at me will set off a fit of anger. He'll say things like, I'm not trying hard enough to get excited. Then another day, he'll tell me that I might as well have ended his life by getting pregnant. He doesn't like how I look, I'm nearing the end of my pregnancy, and then later, he loves how I look. I feel like I'm losing my mind. If I even mention anything negative related to being pregnant, as simple as, I'm tired, he gets annoyed. I promise I'm not complaining often, rarely since this mood of his started, but I will admit I still struggle with everything that's changing in my life, and I'm dealing with a lot of anxiety. I've subtly tried to recommend therapy, I've been going even before I got pregnant, but that was not okay. I've suggested some distance, and he then accused me of wanting to leave him, and we got into another horrible fight. I'm at a loss. I just wanted to add this to make sure. I've grown a lot to love this baby, and will do anything for them. Just struggle sometimes with how much my life is changing. Damn, this one's really sad. Heartbreaking. This is just really sad, and I think it sucks that like, this is so often, not only physically, but like emotionally on the woman of like, all of the- No, this one's crazy. And for like, the resentment to be on her, it's like, your cum physically went into her, so. It takes two. Yeah. It's even the line, my boyfriend and I have been dealing with my unexpected pregnancy, and it's like, yes, you are the one that's pregnant, but like, it did take two of you. And then, I don't know why, maybe it's just me being ultra paranoid based on stories we've had in the past, but OP saying like, I'm on the pill. And I'm like, are we sure about that? Like, are we sure he didn't tamper with your birth control? Because yeah, that's- That's really hard to have happen if you're on the pill. Well, it's like, it's pretty effective. And so, in my head, I'm like, we've had stories in the past where it's like, my boyfriend admitted to me that he tampered with my birth control. And I'm just like, ugh, because he's just going through all these like, wild ranges of emotions. And I'm like, he clearly needs to get some help. I don't know if he, you know, maybe is dealing with some mental health stuff or a diagnosis, and that could explain his behavior. And he needs, you know, medication management or better coping strategy. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But he clearly needs to seek out professional help, because the way in which he's acting right now is extremely abusive. Well, and from the flip side, we've seen- I just thought about what did you say on the- On the flip hand. On the flip hand. I don't know how I got that one. On the flip hand, we've seen a lot of stories where after pregnancy is when a boyfriend can get really like, mean and like, start to show their true colors too. So you could see, you know, from another perspective, like him doing it on purpose and then now can be mean to her or something like that. Because insulting the way she looks too- What did she, she put it in a sad way. It was like, he's not happy with the way I look. I'm nearing the end of my pregnancy, parentheses. Like, basically being like, read between the lines, I'm big. I'm changing. My body's big. I'm very pregnant. Yeah. And yeah, he doesn't like the way I look. And then later, he loves how I look. And it's like, the, quite literally, the whiplash she is experiencing. And so much so that, like, she can't even vent. She can't even be negative. She can't say, I'm tired. How has she gone through this pregnancy with such an unsupportive, diabolical, heinous partner? Well, and not only did they get pregnant together, they also made the decision to keep the baby together. So every decision, it's not even like, you know, we got pregnant, but then he wanted me to get an abortion and I didn't. Like, it's not even that. It's like, they made the decision, all these decisions together. Yeah. And there's other options too, right? Like, you could put this baby up for adoption if you both are not ready to be parents. Like, yeah. There are other options you could have pursued rather than him being like, you might as well have ended my life by getting pregnant. Oh my God, that was horrible. That's crazy to say. That is so inappropriate to say. Like, what are you doing? And now she, at the end of this, she is saying like, I'm, I will do anything for my baby. I mean, she's nearing the end of it now. She's probably feeling this bond and it's like, she wants to do her best now with the situation that they're in. And on top of all of that, to be like, this is the person I'm going to do it with. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it sucks. Absolutely sucks. So, OP very, very, very quickly removed that post. Oh. Gone. Replaced all of the text with the following message. Oh. Thank you all for your concern. Boyfriend saw my post. We had a good conversation and we'll try to work everything out. I've also made many mistakes and shouldn't have painted him in such a bad light. Going to step away from this to focus on my relationship and the baby. Thanks for everything. Sorry. Oh, God. Um, my alarm bells are blasting through the roof. Yeah. And like, not only to like remove all of that, it's like, what is the discomfort with people saying this is bad? Why is it like so extreme? Yeah. A lot of times you'll see like partner saw the post. Yeah. And it's an edit. I think there's that much more gravity to this story. And the abuse that's happening in this relationship where it is gone. Like she wanted to wipe it and just replace it with this statement. Well, luckily, like the way I was able to read this is someone did get a copy of it. Yeah. PJs are comfy and posted it in the comments for people that have missed the original. I think there's something scary about wanting to hide the behavior because you have to really know something is wrong or like something has to really be wrong for it to be like we can't even talk about. Yeah. The dynamic that's happening. We can't even like have an honest conversation about it or like put it at face value. Like that's when it gets really scary. Yeah, because it would be unsafe for her. And even in her response, like she's she's placating him in a way to be like, I've also made many mistakes. I shouldn't have painted him in such a bad light. Like, is she even the one typing this? And that's where you just you really, really worry. Yeah. A lot of comments are also worried and speak to what's maybe happening here based on professional experience. There's a commenter here, Plastic Venus, that says, As a DFW counselor, I can tell you that pregnancy is at the top of the ladder for most dangerous times for women in relationships. If you have a partner showing increased anger and you're pregnant, particularly if he doesn't want that pregnancy, you need to be aware that you are potentially in a very unsafe position. Well, yeah. And it does make the comment about you might as well end my life scarier. Yeah. Because it's like if this. This baby is the reason you feel that way. I think it makes the violence toward ending their life scarier. It's just unhinged behavior. And I just I really worry for OP. I mean, this is a very recent post. I'm not sure when that edit was changed, but the original post is only 19 days old. I know, like, a lot of times people get support and stories and outreach from others that have been in the same position or similar shoes. And it does really help. So. Even if you're leaving a comment on the post from an anonymous Reddit account, then, like, it's it's the post is still up. The post hasn't been deleted. The account is still there. So I would say if you want to lend OP some support here, go leave a comment on this. Yeah, I think that that can be really helpful. I mean, we don't know how dire the situation is because seemingly before this post, you know, like there wasn't Internet. There wasn't being controlled and, you know, all of that. So it might it might still be earlier stages of a dangerous situation. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I hope we get an update on this one. I mean, the comments are just rightfully mad, mad and worried. Like a lot of comments are like, he's also responsible for this just as much as you are. Like you're on the pill, but he also could have worn protection. Yeah. Be prepared for him to leave. And then other people are like, if he leaves, that would be the best outcome. She was, by the way, the only one. She wasn't doing anything to prevent pregnancy. Like she was like taking a pill. It's only you every day doing that. It's only your body being affected. Like he wasn't doing a single thing to prevent the pregnancy. So to put the blame on her, it's like so unfair. Like I was actually trying. I was changing my hormones. And doing my part. Yeah. Every single day. Where was your. Nothing about your life was changed in order to prevent a pregnancy. Like, OK. And then to blame her. It's it's absolutely. It's heinous. So I will make sure there's resources. If you feel like alarm bells are ringing or this feels close to home for you. Yeah. I'll make sure there's resources in the comments. And again, like. Offer some support in the comments on this post, because I know. People come back and they look at it even after changing the post, even after the edits. Well, they still keep up with comments. It's not deleted. So I'd make a comment if you feel inclined to. But moving on to this next one. Coming from our slash non monogamy titled our 44 female 44 male son 20 male found out about our open relationship in the worst way possible. Five days ago, my son, 20 male, came home from college claiming his mother was cheating on me with one of his classmates. I was completely caught off guard. He said that a classmate was bragging to a mutual friend. Let's call him. Mike, my son's friend who has been to our house many times about hooking up with an older woman. Then the classmate showed Mike a picture of the woman and it was my wife. Mike didn't say anything to the classmate, but he called my son immediately. My son came home furious, convinced my wife was cheating. I stepped out under the excuse of picking up dinner, which I actually did. And I called my wife to tell her what happened. She started panicking and said she was scared to come home and face him. I told her we had to come clean and explain the truth. That night, we sat down for a family meeting. My son was already yelling, asking why we were pretending when he knew the truth. I asked him to calm down and let us talk. I told him that my wife and I opened our marriage five years ago, that we both see other people occasionally and that we still love each other and are committed to our marriage and our relationship. I told him that my wife and I opened our marriage five years ago, that we both see other people occasionally and are committed to our marriage and our relationship. So he found out from a friend who saw from someone. So it's not his friend. friend exactly no but mutuals right so someone around and it's just like it's gross also that guy obviously like showing pictures as an asshole some of his reaction i don't love too but i also can't imagine that it would be good to hear it from in the way that he did hear it no and like you race home thinking your mom's cheating like you're just your world is kind of shattered and then to be like oh well we've you know been doing this since you were 15 and it's just like the relationship that you thought your parents had in their life and your life and everything it's kind of shattered and this is something that you know might take him a lot of adjusting i find it interesting though with this one how mom and dad are both sitting you down telling you hey we've decided to open our relationship this was a mutual decision yeah and instead he just goes to his mom and is like okay lady of the night it's like right some of it felt misogynistic and that's what i was trying to figure out and i was like well i don't know what to do with it i was trying to touch on of like uh she like how many how many people have you slept with type thing yeah and it's like i also want to give a little bit of grace your dad could also be sleeping with your classmates and you just don't know yet absolutely like we haven't investigated his actions yet i want to give a little grace in the fact that it is his classmate and that might be part of the reaction totally but at the same time some of his reaction again felt like he was thinking now his mom's a whore well and i literally googled i'm like lady of the night because i i've not come across that really really no i've come across that one and it's a polite or euphemistic term for a female prostitute or sex worker and then in my head i'm like okay well he said lady of the night like at least he didn't call her a whore right like it's just a pseudonym he actually he did he did call her whore op oh my god we need to get to the comments yeah op put lady of the night to so that the post wouldn't get removed but the kid said oh so he did call her a whore call her a whore that's he called his mom but that and that's the thing is like if he's upset about it being his classmate that's valid if he's upset because in general because he's like objectifying his mother as like a whore now because she's sleeping or like that's like a different yeah oh my god okay so i'm i'm looking at the comment bailey just punched in so someone says ignoring that this is obviously made up what 20 year old uses lady of the night why is your college students especially at her son's school and that's when op shares i said lady of the night because i didn't want my post removed according to my wife his profile on the app didn't mention college my wife agrees it was a stupid mistake to make so yeah he definitely did not use okay that term and went a little um so derogatory so she's on probably one of those like field apps or something like that you know you know what i'm talking about which if anyone ever hasn't heard of that it's like a open relationship to her so she's on probably one of those like field apps or type app i think where it's like it's not tinder or hinge like it's not a more straightforward dating it is more of like a sex like more random like hookup type thing like um seeking arrangements but a little more modern yeah and not like not money exchanged oh is seeking arrangement just all money seeking arrangements is like older guys for the most part looking for a younger girl that they can pay to like that's the arrangement it's like i pay you for yeah i thought it was open for a lot of things it might be the other one that got busted for craigslist scandal ashley madison oh i didn't know about that one like their servers got hacked and people were releasing all the emails and so oh that's people were finding out their husbands were like oh god cheating okay well i think that it's still not a good age gap but if she didn't know and like it was more of just like a random profile hookup thing it's and he is of age it's like less heinous than her like meeting obviously like meeting a classmate of his on purpose at like a school function and then like going home with him or something yeah she still shouldn't be hooking up with 20 year olds no and someone else makes a comment here too to op basically saying like the both of you need to stop hooking up with 20 year olds but i tried to look at the account account has been banned i mean yeah that's why i was like there's multiple assholes in this story i was like the wife shouldn't be doing that the son sounds misogynistic in his reaction the friend was showing pictures of her like it's i thought it was weird that i don't know it's like did the wife not have a conversation with this guy at all before they hooked up being like oh like what do you do maybe not school or he's just like older woman and he's lying because he's kind of maybe not disclosing on the app so the top comment is about the one you both need to stop dating people your kids age op says you're right about the age thing my wife has decided it's not worth the trouble okay so no clarification that like we're both i don't do that and she's decided no more all right i mean that the hard thing is that's the most glaring thing in this story and it's kind of preventing me from getting in the weeds about like the rest of it because the red herring for you that's literally not op's point but i'm just like all right so we do get an update oh so update a lot has happened these past few weeks my son wanted to tell my parents about the situation i had to threaten to remove funding for his college to prevent this he went to individual therapy and we did family therapy a week ago the house has been cold and distant my son recently opened up to us four days ago he told us he feels extremely anxious going to college because he is afraid mike might have told someone else he apologized for what he called his mother he said that he isn't inherently against our open relationship but found it disturbing that we would hook up with people not only his age but people he also has mutual connections with valid he told us his mother's action can still potentially affect his social life that's true very true that is true he let out a lot of feelings he seemed to have kept to himself for a while my son said that he noticed there was a disconnect between him and us when he was around 14 years old initially he thought it was because he was becoming more independent but he feels now there was more going on he told us we were too focused on our lives outside of the family than other families my son would notice how his friends would have their parents practically beg them to hang out with them meanwhile he never felt as much as seen as compared to his friends he thinks it's because of our open relationship that we are not that close to him there actually might be something to that i'm gonna take back my son's the asshole i know well if this was his initial reaction we'd be like he like got their asses for real yeah instead of just going whore no but i'm like like he's probably like my parents didn't really want to hang out with me right because they had dates lined up usually like if you have kids in school it's like can we make time for date night with each other once a week is that something we feasibly have time for i would imagine if they both have multiple dates outside of the home like they would be busier yeah op goes on to share we asked what he wants from us going forward he said for the sake of his mental health he needs some time away from us he mentions he holds too much resentment to be around us my son isn't going to continue his college in the spring semester oh my god he's going to work full-time and apply to transfer to an out-of-state school for the next fall semester i'll be honest i don't like this idea but i told him we would talk about it later especially when it comes to funding my son replied that he isn't comfortable getting help from us for school he wants to take out loans my wife isn't taking it well i'm not taking it well either i honestly hope my son will change his mind in the future damn i feel really like i don't even know if conflicted is the word for it but i just feel like so because i i don't think it's inherently bad for like a married couple with kids to have an open relationship no but then at the same time we're like hearing from this kid that he did feel less connected with them growing up and like it's and maybe it's just the way that they went about it too like obviously there's so many different ways that you can go about the same thing in marriage and in dating but it's like this has really rocked his world and he's embarrassed to go to school he also i think maybe because of the comment about we'll stop giving you money if you go to your grandparents that now he's like now i don't want them to have anything they can use against me and like which i totally rationalize about that the minute someone then manipulates you and you're like i'm not taking anything from you ever again i don't want you to have anything to hold over me i'm feeling really bad for him i am too really really bad for him and i think it's about to get worse because well we just found another update live okay another update has has careful has appeared has sprung up in front of us so the original post is one year old now the first update came shortly after that yeah it says a year on reddit it happened a few weeks after the original post and then this update is two months old so the update comes nine months later okay oh okay she's pregnant with the classmate's child just gave birth i'm just kidding can you imagine but i do i do just want to take a like a moment where it's like Like, what he said to his mom, like, freaking out, calling her whatever derogatory term he used like sad a lot of people in the comments were like that's so disrespectful to take a whole life of you raising him and then throw it away over it's like it's also on this non-monogamy sub so they did get a lot of support and I would say like based on the comments I'm quickly scanning there wasn't a lot of empathy for him in that moment now getting all this context where he's like I felt like my parents were pulling away from me at 14 and now that you're telling me this I think it's probably in hindsight because of this I need a break and then let's take into account the you know we're going to cut off your funding and then he's like I'm a social pariah Mike is telling everyone my mom's fucking classmates I need to take a break I'm going to transfer out of state and then dad's like well we don't love that idea and you know we might not help fund that and it's like yeah I feel bad for the kid yeah and I'm so scared to get into this update because I'm looking at the title and it's not feeling great okay update we've lost our son permanently due to the situation oh my god nine months later I can finally give an update unfortunately things have gotten worse my son followed through with almost everything he said he was going to do he did not return to college for the spring semester instead he moved out got a full-time job and spent the last several months working and applying to transfer schools he was accepted to an out-of-state college and has just started his fall semester there the part I was not prepared for is that he seems happier than he has been in a very long time at first my wife and I assumed the distance would be temporary we thought that once he had time away from us he might eventually want more contact instead the opposite seems to have happened the longer he has been away from us the less he seems to want contact for the first few months he would occasionally answer our calls and messages the conversations were awkward and short but at least we had some contact over time though he started responding less and less during that time we did not hear anything directly from him we only knew that he was working and preparing to move because of the limited information that he had previously shared with us what has been the hardest is hearing about how his life has been going since he moved out he has been working saving money and making his own decisions he made friends during the months he was working and he has been working and making his own decisions he has continued individual therapy now he has moved out of state and started the fall semester at this new school we only know these things because he told us shortly before leaving my son finally contacted us shortly before leaving for school he said he wanted us to understand what he wants going forward he said that he no longer wants a close relationship he said that during the months he has been away from us he realized how much anxiety he associated with being at home and around us he said he feels like he has been away from us he can finally make decisions without worrying about how we will react he also said that he doesn't spend as much time feeling angry anymore that letting go of a close relationship with us has brought more peace than he has ever had before that was probably the hardest thing he said he told us that he wants to maintain a distant relationship with us similar to the relationship he has with some of his extended family he is willing to exchange occasional messages and speak during major holidays but he does not want to be in a relationship with us he does not want regular calls frequent visits or an emotionally close parent-child relationship he said he's done with us in a more permanent way he was very clear that he does not currently want to rebuild a close relationship with either of us my wife is taking this very badly she's been crying almost every day since he told us he wanted a distant relationship she barely eats when she's upset and has lost weight she keeps rereading his messages and scrolling through old pictures of him and his wife he's been crying almost every day since he told us he wanted a as a child several times i found her sitting on the floor in his old bedroom holding one of his sweatshirts she has also started leaving long voicemails for him even though he asked us to not call frequently she says she deletes them before sending but i have caught her recording messages late at night she has written him several letters and bought gifts for him although he has told us not to send packages without asking first she keeps checking his social media and asking mutual acquaintances whether he has mentioned her or not and she says she has not mentioned us when she sees pictures of him with his new friends she becomes visibly upset and says that he looks happier with them than he ever looked with us she has also started blaming herself then blaming me then blaming other people one day she says we should apologize and give him space the next she says that he has been manipulated by other people and that we need to make him understand how much we love him she has missed work twice because she was too upset to get out of bed she has stopped seeing some of her friends because she doesn't want to answer questions about him when relatives ask how he is doing she either starts crying or becomes angry and says that they are taking his side i have tried to convince her that repeatedly contacting him will only push him away further but she says that doing nothing feels like abandoning him i am taking it badly too although i probably don't show it as much the thing i never expected is that giving him the space he asked for does not seem to have made him regret leaving it seems to have made him happier and nine months ago if you had told me that our son would walk away from our family skip a semester of college work full-time move out of state and start a new school and somehow ended up happier than before i would not have believed you but that is where we are now he has made it clear that distance is what he wants and that he is not waiting to return to the kind of relationship we had before i honestly don't know whether his feelings will ever change but i am beginning to understand that he is not waiting to return to the kind beginning to understand that we cannot assume they will now i feel totally conflicted in a different way i'm like because on the surface it's like damn over finding out your parents had an open relationship because that's the main thing here right like they didn't name call him but at the same time we only have op's perspective of what the fallout actually looked like oh yeah of what was actually said of what their relationship has been so it's hard because i'm like i mean i don't think as we were saying like what what op and his wife did and how they handled it sounded really hard for the child but then when you hear that he's like fully removed them from his life it's like off is it like was it that bad like is it really that terrible that they had an open relationship i mean a lot of people have midlife crises and you know run around town and do all this type of stuff i don't think it's about the open relationship i think there's a lot that we aren't being told there's a lot of missing context here i think and i think you kind of get a glimpse at the crack when op makes comments like he told us that he feels less anxiety not having to gauge how we're going to react to his decisions right and you know he was still living at home in college there was the comment about we're not going to pay for your school if you tell grandma and grandpa so maybe he's living at home as another means of control so i think there's a lot going on here that maybe as a controlling parent op isn't even realizing right but as a kid he's like i'm done like this is my last straw and i started going through this at 14 when they started neglecting me and didn't want to but talk to me at dinner and they were always gone and like i didn't know what was going on that's another thing that's confusing about it is like all of these comments about them being distant from him in the past but then all these comments now about them being overbearing and too involved in his life now like that kind of is a dissonance to me of of kind of not liking both things and i guess that's possible i've gone through phases with like one of my parents where like there was still like an insane amount of control and like do this do that but also distance yeah like unavailability because they were with a partner right or we're living in a different place and it's kind of interesting because it's like at that age i felt like i didn't want to disappoint my parents and so i still kind of like had that anxiety like okay be a good kid get good grades do right but at the same time feeling very neglected and abandoned but still scared of the control or the consequences from not performing yeah no that makes a lot of sense so i'm like maybe he's just like now he's like i'm done what they did wasn't necessarily about the open relationship but about the treatment of me since they started this yeah more of a confirmation of like they they have been acting in a different way and there was a reason the time yeah like i wasn't crazy their other partners were more important than me and our family yeah that's like maybe where he's going with it because he is only 20 yeah like he's really just at this like kind of crucial stage in his life of like going from high schooler family i can't live by my life to i'm gonna spread my wings and like set some serious boundaries but i think like looking at how you proceed forward you gotta give him a space you can't keep bombarding him with voicemails you can't keep sending him shit it could feel manipulative and again like you're not respecting his boundaries so you gotta just and it's still early they're saying like there's still a chance that they can work this out as a family nine months i'm sure it feels like a lot but that's still relatively new i think for like a 20 year old going through a huge life change and like processing a lot at once about their relationship with their parents i think a lot of people go to college and go off in the first time and like leave their family environment for for the first time and see how different other people are from their from their parents and start to process those things that doesn't mean that they'll never have a relationship with their parents again but like it is a big a big step and so I mean I don't know I guess I don't know what I really want to happen because again it's all from OP's perspective and we don't know how bad the relationship was or it's just no way yeah we're whiplashing I mean we're whiplashing I just I'm like oh my god this one was just posted on like almost towards the end of September but I'm like oh my god I'm just like I'm really now what the hell yeah update we called our son on his birthday yesterday was my son's birthday we called him to wish him a happy birthday we've been respecting his boundaries and what he wants out of the relationship he actually picked up the phone my wife was on the verge of getting emotional but she restrained herself I'm a little proud of her she managed to keep her voice steady and we wished him a happy birthday we asked the generic what's up he actually told us about what he's doing for his birthday he made some friends during transfer orientation they were going to go bar hopping my son told us what classes he's taking and showed some videos of his dorm room it wasn't a long talk but it was a good one reading some of the previous comments in the previous post sort of helped me get my head out of my ass and I decided to tell my son that we were proud of him we said that we were proud of the way he had worked made difficult decisions built a life for himself and found a school and community where he felt happier we made sure he understood that we weren't saying it to pressure him or to suggest that he owed us anything we were simply proud that he had taken responsibility for his life and had had the courage to make the changes he needed we also didn't lament on anything or said we wished things were better we also told him if he ever needs anything from us in any way please don't be afraid to reach out to us he said thank you and was glad that we called after the call ended my wife started crying again but this time they were happy tears I also got very emotional too I mean and this is kind of what we were just saying in the last one is like there's still time and I think this goes to show that if they're willing to like respect his boundaries boundaries and engage engage in healthy communication like they're going to get a better response and maybe over time it's like well if my relationship with you guys can be positive then I'll have that relationship with you yeah can I ask what the comment like have the comments changed in like I was wondering what the comments on that last update were because he was like okay I got my head out of my ass because like my advice to him again was like you got to cut it out like don't bug him and like start respecting his boundaries and give him time to heal because again it doesn't seem like it's about the non-monogamy top comment it sounds like there's a lot more going on here than just the incident you previously posted about 22 is a good and normal age to move out everything that he has done sounds like a healthy way of asserting independence and starting his own adult life respectfully it sounds like maybe there was some degree of enmeshment here and this might be the pendulum swinging hard in the other direction I'm sure that it will at some point find a more normal equilibrium but I understand him wanting more space in this period okay there's an age difference but I think that person because OP doesn't include age here I wonder if they were trying to do math right they were assuming and adding because the original post was 20 yeah and in this birthday update it sounds like a 21st birthday so 21 is what I'm thinking is going to be the first birthday his age is now but 20 is also a reasonable age to yeah not live at home but yeah I left at 18 finances sometimes people live at home longer like you got to do what you got to do but I think you can be an adult still living at home and be independent and not have a controlling enmeshed relationship with your parents yeah I'm glad that the comments too are kind of like coming around to that because we talk about it all the time it is hard when OP is the narrator and we're sort of like there's something else going on here that they're not sharing with us because I mean again on the one hand I think more so when you hear someone say I can finally breathe and like I don't have anxiety anymore and all of those things it leads you to believe like the relationship has been pretty toxic but at the same time teenagers slash 20 year olds can also just feel that way about their parents yeah so you know it's giving toxic especially by the lack of respect and this person that commented on that we've ruined it forever whatever update kind of tears them apart between your inability to hear what your son is saying and your wife's inability to respect the boundaries he has clearly asked for all you are both doing right now is confirming for him that he made the right choice there is clearly clearly more to his feelings than just this one incident although do not get me wrong at all your wife banged one of his classmates a kid his own age someone young enough to be her son and that is honestly actually fucking disgusting that alone is amply sufficient reason for the kid to want some space for at least a little while I'd be freaked out too if I was in his place we have the saying don't shit where you eat but you really shouldn't have to tell people not to shit where their kid eats oh I literally oh my god I literally said that though yeah like Jesus Christ what the hell is wrong with your wife look your kid is in therapy people who are being bratty don't go to therapy that means your son thought there were problems he needed to work on and so he did and a conclusion likely reached by both himself and a mental health professional is that you and your wife are bad for his mental health and if you want there to be any chance 10 or 20 years from now that your kid might be open to deepening the relationship slightly and likely very cautiously you and your wife need to change radically and take accountability figure your bullshit out for the love of God and fuck people your own age please we maybe we need to be meaner oh my god damn they got his ass damn damn yeah shredding blue roses what popped off what a what a freaking journey I'm glad like the comments catch on to it too like they catch on to the bullshit yeah I feel like we're starting to get better about unreliable narrators and yeah maybe seeing through the cracks I know it's only taken six years well because here we are yeah happens to the best of us well you know trusting dispositions it's like you're the only person we're hearing from yeah so why are we gonna make up you know that you've done something wrong but sometimes you get a whiff you do get a whiff and I think I always try to believe the writer because a lot of times the writer's coming from a place of like oh no you've been gaslit this is obviously a little different of a situation but at the same time people are typically more biased yeah as they write these posts because it's your experience totally so I'm glad we sifted through this one and we wow I mean what was that three updates I'm glad we read this now three big updates because that's kind of like that's really all we need to get out of this at the end of it barring like the son giving us his side of the story but just hearing a short like we did have a conversation and it went well and you know things can possibly be looking up from here I think this episode is brought to you by ollie supplement girlies your routine just got a serious upgrade ollie mochi bites are officially at target they're first of the kind mochi supplements delivering the same expert benefits in soft chewy delicious bites certified vegan and gluten-free with just one gram of sugar per two bites across four formulas multivitamins sleep beauty and energy ollie you just unlocked a whole new way more fun category of wellness head to target and try new mochi bites today these statements have not been evaluated by the food and drug administration this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease pink panther is here coach and spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together and they want you to be part of it grab your friends and head to the tabby tour hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists exclusive experiences and personalized products and discover custom playlists on spotify built just for you based on who you are and how you listen live your story with coach learn more at coach.com this episode is brought to you by universal pictures fucker and law spin this thanksgiving with the fuckers the beloved meet the parents franchise returns with the twist robert de niro and ben stiller are back joined by ariana grande as the newest member of the family get ready for laughs unexpected surprises and a hilarious new chapter of the family saga fucker and law rated pg-13 only in theaters this thanksgiving get tickets now they are that's the most we need yeah yeah that's it what a journey what a journey oh okay we are wrapping up this crazy theme yeah with one from our very own to our take subreddit and it's titled would i be the asshole for invoicing my husband's great uncle for the cheesecake at our wedding. My husband, 20 male, and I, 23 female, recently got married with just under 300 people. My parents and my husband's dad and stepmom paid for the wedding. We had 300 cupcakes in four different flavors for our guests, plus a separate cheesecake specifically for my husband and me to cut. My husband doesn't like regular cake, but absolutely loves cheesecake. So a family friend who makes amazing cheesecakes specifically made one for us as a wedding gift. They only make them for special occasions, so this was especially meaningful to us, and my husband was really looking forward to having it at our wedding. For context, this family friend has also sold some of their cheesecakes for anywhere from $200 to $400, so this isn't something that would necessarily be cheap or easy to replace. The cheesecake was on its own individual table in the dessert area, separate from the cupcakes. The table had wheels, so it could be wheeled out to the dance floor for our scheduled cake cutting. Our engraved wedding utensils were sitting next to it. The venue workers were supposed to bring it out 10 to 15 minutes before we were scheduled to cut the cake. While my husband and I were finishing dinner at the head table, our wedding planner came over and told us that one of our guests had cut into our cheesecake. That guest was my husband's great-uncle. He cut himself a piece using our engraved utensils and started eating it. Then other guests started taking pieces too. Our wedding planner realized what was happening and got after the venue staff because they hadn't noticed or stopped it sooner. By the time we were actually able to do our cake cutting, only about a quarter of the cheesecake was left. My husband and I got a few bites before it was gone. When I was brought up to his great-uncle afterwards, he didn't apologize or seem particularly bothered. He basically laughed and said something along the lines of, quote, well, it was good. Die. I honestly don't understand how you see 300 cupcakes available for guests and decide to cut into the one cheesecake sitting separately on its own table, especially when the engraved wedding utensils were literally right next to it. I wouldn't say this ruined our wedding. We had an amazing wedding and obviously there are much more important things than this. But we had an amazing wedding and obviously there are much more important things than dessert. But it was our one and only wedding and this cheesecake was specifically made for us as a gift because it was my husband's favorite dessert. We also can't just go to a store and replace it. My husband thinks we should let it go. His response is basically, quote, that's just how that side of the family is. I, however, feel differently. I think people sometimes continue acting like assholes because everyone around them accepts it as a that's just how they are. So would I be the asshole if I mailed his great uncle an invoice for the cheesecake? I'm not trying to claim that he ruined our wedding or put a dollar amount on the sentimental value. I was thinking of invoicing him for what a comparable cheesecake would cost us since he essentially took most of something that was specially made for us. Would that be justified or would sending an actual invoice just make me an asshole too? Do it. Send the invoice. It's the principle. I mean, honestly, if he's not going to feel any guilt about this is the thing is like if they went to him and he was like, I'm so sorry. That was such a big that was such a big mistake. I feel like an idiot. I just didn't know. And by the way, this is their wedding cake. Like they keep just referring to it as a special cheesecake. It's your wedding, but it is your wedding. It's your wedding cake. This was you were going to do the cut the cake ceremony with it. And if you are at a wedding and there is any type of cake on a on the dessert table with the cupcakes. Granted, it looked like a wedding cake, two tier cake with a cake topper. No one touched it. I didn't even think I didn't even think I would have to worry about someone touching it. Yeah, but I did just see a video. I think I just saw this video short to older women. Oh, no. I'm curious what you saw, because I saw a video of Martin Short talking about accidentally cutting Selena Gomez's wedding. Yes, I saw that, too. And he goes, I just thought on the dessert table for everyone else. And so I'm like, well, is this an old person thing? Well, and maybe because the video I saw was also two old women coming up and taking the first slice of wedding cake. What's happening? I don't know if there used to be a tradition that has changed, but I would have imagined that cutting the wedding cake was even more of a tradition. I feel like they used to bring it out, though. Yeah, it wasn't sitting there from the start. Maybe. But I don't know. I don't blame the other guests. Who took a slice after it already been cut. I think that if you see like an already like half eaten cheesecake, you're like, oh, this is just another one of the things. Fair game. But it's an option. An untouched cake of any kind. Let's just not be the first to cut into it. No. Bamboos lane. I would definitely address it with him and ask him. I wouldn't necessarily send him an invoice. I think it's funny. Hilarious. Hilarious. Sometimes I love a little passive moment. Borderline aggressive. But I think what you should do is have your husband reach out and say, hey, you know, we really wanted the special cake cutting moment. Would you be OK buying us a new cheesecake? And if he says no or if he continues to double down on it, yeah, then screw him. Ask this family friend to make you a new cheesecake on your one year anniversary and then make it special and do a little cake cutting. Yeah. Cheesecake night on your anniversary. Yeah. OP was so reasonable about this. She's reasonable. Multiple times was like, I'm not trying to say it ruined our wedding and I'm not, you know, this this isn't the worst thing in the world. But we were excited about it. It was our wedding cake. And like, no, I would have crashed out a little. Yeah, I would. Of course. I'd be upset. I think you're very valid in your feelings and your reaction here, especially if you're met with like, oh, well, it was yummy. Like, fuck you. I don't like I wish you would have choked on it. Like what? Rub it in. Yeah. Well, I wish I would have known how yummy it was. I would have had a whole one. Yeah. Got a couple bites. So top comment on this one. It's got a big red box too. Why was it wheeled out and just left there near the rest of the desserts? This seems like really mixed messaging to me. Like this table has cupcakes on it, which people are allowed to eat and are just supposed to know that. But this table is off limits despite being in the same space. And guests are also just supposed to know that. No, I disagree. If you didn't want people to eat it, maybe don't put it out on the dessert area and leave it unattended for 15 minutes. OK, but a single cake on its own small platform versus like a full like dessert table. Yeah, I would. I would always assume like that's the wedding cake. It's on a smaller little. I think we're over thinkers, though. We're like maybe a little more. Aware. And you know what? That's fair. I've wanted to be less aware lately. I've tried. OK. And you know what? Even if we go with that, even if we're like this is an easy mistake, then if he had apologized, it'd be different. Totally. If he'd been like, I'm so sorry I made a I made a stupid mistake. But I also bet that O.P. wasn't expecting it to go down like this either. Like O.P. is like it was supposed to be on a table and then wheeled out after we had dinner, like 10 of whatever the plan was. So it feels like the staff and the wedding planner kind of took it upon themselves to arrange it this way. And they really kind of messed this up. But again, uncle's still a little Yeah. Doubling down, especially. And someone does respond. I agree. Wedding planner could have figured out a way to cover the cheesecake or put some temporary place cards that say do not touch. Seems like a failure on many fronts. Thank God I'm never getting married. Oh, geez. Someone else says like, God forbid someone eat your cheesecake. Thank God I'm not getting married. I know. All right. I don't know. Someone else said you are definitely mad at the wrong people. You could be mad at the venue for wheeling it out too early. You could be mad at your wedding planner because. They are paid a sizable fee to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen. At the minimum, she should have assured there was a note on the table saying that it was specifically for the bride and the groom. You got a free wedding from your parents. By your own admission, it was wonderful that this was the only blip. Let it go. Oh, shit. Spend $200 and get another cheesecake just for the two of you and enjoy life. This is a minor bump in the road. You know what? I mean, that's kind of fair too. I guess what's my sticking point here is just the uncle being such a dick when this happens. I wish if you would have just said, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Cool. Someone does say you would be the asshole. His great uncle saw dessert in the dessert area and ate it. Was he a little clueless? Sure. But he's not the one that failed you. The staff who had custody of the cake failed you. Invoice them. I agree with that. Wow. Maybe invoice the staff. Yeah. You know what? Maybe I'm coming around. I mean, that doesn't take away my feelings about the uncle responding badly and being an asshole about it. But ultimately, how hard is it for you to get the cake? I don't know. How hard is it to put a do not touch sign up on the wedding cake? I feel like I have seen signs too around desserts like for the bride and groom. Maybe. And by the way, if you're out there, maybe this is a lesson. Maybe this is like a little thing to jot down. Add it to your list of things that can go wrong. Let's please avoid. If we've got a cake, don't bring it out. Because a lot of people now, because their cakes are so pretty, do like to display them on the dessert table. Of course. That's literally, I didn't even. But that's the thing. It just was there. I don't I do think most—well, no, I'm not going to claim most. I think— When I picture a wedding, I do imagine the wedding cake is displayed on its own little table. And that's like a wedding cake in my mind. But double down at a sign, I guess. You gotta spell things out for people sometimes. I do think, now that I'm like thinking about this more, did the great uncle mess up? Yeah. Is this annoying? Yeah. But if you're going to invoice someone, it should be your event staff. Because that was their literal job that they got paid for. So they should reimburse you. And it should at least be a conversation because they're going to do future weddings. And I think they should know that this was a big mistake. And how hard is it to get some signs that say don't touch this? Yeah, because a lot of people are doing non-traditional desserts too for their wedding. I've seen these people do like ginormous cakes. And then they add fruit and powdered sugar. And that's like their cute little thing. So it's definitely a combo. And I know a lot of people in the comments too were like, OP didn't even pay for the cheesecake. Why should she invoice anyone? It's like, damn, they're really mad. That her parents paid for the wedding. Just calm down. But I think it's still like the principle of like this cheesecake. Yes, we didn't pay for it. We were supposed to have an entire one. And you should at least pay to replace it. Whatever our family friend Baker wants to charge, you should reimburse us so we can get another one. Yeah. And have that experience. Like even if I built the arch, if someone like took an axe to it, we'd be mad just because we didn't do the classic. Yeah. Exchanging of money. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have the same value. Whatever. Yeah. So we do have an edit. Oh, and maybe this is where we whiplash it. I don't know. Oh, God. Adding some context. Since there seems to be a few misconceptions in the comments. My husband's great uncle is in his late 50s, early 60s. And the cheesecake was kept in a refrigerator slash cooler in the back until the wedding planner and venue staff brought it out for the cake cutting. It was brought out specifically to be displayed and cut like a wedding cake. I was busy being the bride and assumed the venue staff had it handled. The cheesecake was made by an elderly family friend. And there's a very real possibility that this was the last cheesecake they will ever make. Oh, my God. So it was especially meaningful to us. They're on death's door. The invoice was also more of a joke between my husband and me. We're happily married and aren't actually expecting his uncle to pay it. His mom and stepdad even agreed we should send it and basically said that's just how he is. I think some of the reactions were just, you know, some of the reactions are based on assumptions that weren't part of the original situation. So hopefully this clears up some of the missing context. The venue slash planner probably could have handled the cheesecake situation better. And that's fair criticism. And just to be clear, I'm not the only one who thinks his behavior was inappropriate. My husband and mother-in-law both agree with me. My mother-in-law says send the invoice. It's her uncle. But my husband doesn't want to cause potential family drama. OK, yeah. And they are meaning the invoice in a more lighthearted way than other people are taking it. It's not this like angry, like, fuck you, pay for my cake. It's like more of a bit. An LOL. LOL. Like, oh, Christmas gift this year? Nah. Here's an invoice for our cheesecake. Oh, my God. Also, the cheesecake. She's like, it's an elderly man. It's the last cake he's going to make. Probably. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Last cheesecake they will ever make. Well, we just couldn't catch a break. Caught in this theme. Well, I think, you know, ultimately. You think it's going to be lighthearted and then, bam. The special cheesecake man's dying, by the way. Rug ripped out from under us. God. What the heck? Actually, you thought that the cheesecake thing was going to be silly? No, it's irreplaceable. The maker of it, the hand's dead soon. Oh, my God. I don't know. Insane. OP, I'm going to send you a message because I'll tell you what right now. I've got a listener. Luden. If you're out there, he makes the most amazing cheesecakes, like the best cheesecake I've ever had. So. Whiplash again. I know. He used to live in Chicago. And so the Chicago live show, he ended up bringing us a cheesecake to the show. And it was, again, the best cheesecake I've ever had. Oh, my God. I know. Make dreams happen, Morgan. Well, Luden just moved out here. We're kind of like neighbors now. So I've been meaning to meet up and like. Get him for the holiday party. Get the cheesecake recipe and get a cheesecake. And I need you, Luden. Come help cheesecake us. But I'll send. I don't know if I can mail a cheesecake. I guess I could put it on dry ice. So, OP, I could try to mail you one of Luden's cheesecake because it's literally the best cheesecake you will ever have. Or I'll see if he'll send you his recipe if he's willing to share because he was going to send it to me. So. But this is by far one of the best cheesecakes I've ever had in my entire life. I dreamed about it. Can we order from him? Or is this just. It's just a thing he does. It's just a hobby. He's like fully gainfully employed elsewhere. Make a bakery out of your house. I know. Make a ghost kitchen. Ghost kitchen for cheesecake. Yeah. Genuinely, it's like I can't even describe how good it is. And it's just got a little lemon, little vanilla. It's just. Well, we're back at a happy ending here with that. I know. Thank you, Morgan. I'm going to send him a message and be like, hey, I talk about you. I need cheesecake. But that's all I got. I just want to give a special shout out to our. Our girl, Martina. Martina is the one on Patreon that does all the tarot readings for us. Oh, we're due for a tarot reading very soon. But Martina just got married, as well as our other patron listener, Audrey. The two of them became such good friends from Patreon that they just attended each other's weddings. Oh, my God. And then texted me a picture. That's so sweet. I know. Martina also came to my wedding and did tarot. Oh, yeah. My wedding, too. So. Patreon is quite literally a little family, but. That's all I got for this episode. If you want more of this theme, we're over on Patreon. Full episode there. We're also on Spotify memberships now. So that episode will be found there. There's also an exclusive Spotify only episode dropping every month. And then we have YouTube memberships as well. Same content you'd get on Patreon, but on YouTube. So you can really. Make a choice. Choose what you want and how you like to. Consume. Consume your content. And it's all there. And if you want to do it on Spotify and get all four bonus episodes, you can. And then just go on Patreon and be a part of the free membership to still have the chats and more of the community vibes. Yeah. But you can really have your cake and eat it, too. You can have your cheesecake. I was going to say. And eat it, too. But, yeah. We're going to put together a carrot theme soon. I've seen your comments about the carrot. Really? Oh, my God. I need to get on the Patreon. Am I the carrot? Am I the carrot? Am I the carrot? But, okay, guys. Until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. for us here coach and spotify are teaming up to bring music and style together and they want you to be part of it grab your friends and head to the tabby tour hitting cities around the country with live performances from special artists exclusive experiences and personalized products and discover custom playlists on spotify built just for you based on who you are and how you listen live your story with coach learn more at coach.com this episode is brought to you by universal pictures fucker and law spin this thanksgiving with the fuckers the beloved meet the parents franchise returns with a twist robert de niro and ben stiller are back joined by ariana grande as the newest member of the family get ready for laughs unexpected surprises and a hilarious new chapter of the family saga fucker and law rated pg-13 only in theaters this thanksgiving get tickets now