Emmy Predictions, Netflix Is Adapting ‘Lonesome Dove,’ and ‘The Paper’ Season 2

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We discuss, and maybe a little bit of watch after dark. I think a lot of watch after dark. It might be a lopsided show today. So now, great to see you, man, TheWatchItSpotify.com, if you want to reach out. The WatchPod underscore, if you want to watch us in short form video, the video you of the entire show can be found on YouTube at TheRinger-TV channel, as well as on Spotify, where you can listen to us, as well as other podcasts. Where can people find the metadata, and like, the, that's the live feed? Is that our raccoals.net? Or is there a difference? I've actually got, when I said that, I've been talking about my affection for a, I believe, long-lost, a legal streaming piracy platform called a raccoals.net. It's my, one of my favorite bits. And it's where real ones used to watch, like, LaLiga games, real, illegal ones. Yeah. Now it is the subject of land as season four. Joe is going to redact me and take me to Gimmo for watching Valencia versus there is a knock list for people who illegally streamed El Classico in 2003. And Kyle is just going to kick my door down and be like, you have no rights. And I don't. You know, I have to pay for what I did. I agree. I agree. But it's awesome to see you. And if there's a lightness to the air, it's just because we got good news this week. You know, like, it's, there's not a lot of good news. Yeah, what's the, the good news is that Lonesome Dub is going to be made into a mini series by the Netflix corporation by Zoe Kazan and her writing partner and producing partner Jeb Stewart. Um, and I'm so excited to talk to you about this. I don't know. I don't even know. Like, well, I didn't know you were going to frame this as good news. I'm not saying it's bad news. I don't think it's bad news to have a cool new Lonesome Dub mini series. I think it, yes, I think I don't want to start with the, the Zag. Yeah. Let's start off with it. Because minute ago, you're like, what are you doing? Why are you on your computer? You spell tiptoe. Is that with a hyphen and then it, sometimes I'm getting a vibe that you have become what I was during COVID when we would record on zoom and like, you'd talk for five minutes on her up to then I would read Twitter. And that's okay. That's definitely for me to only happen during COVID. That has never happened since we rejoined the studio and Blue Sky where you are just getting them. No, I just couldn't tell what you were doing with your computer. Here's the thing that some people don't know. Let's pull back the curtain briefly. I know you want to. You work really hard for this podcast and everyone in this room who also worked really hard appreciate it. You have a rundown. You have a run of play. Yeah. You plan. And part of the fun, fun, I think, is that I'm not often shared into that. I'm not read into that. Now, do I complain about it? No. No, I get the impression that you're like, thanks for doing this. I thank you. But you wouldn't look at it any earlier than you would when you arrived at the studio. And when we sat down and everybody took their places and the cameras turned on, I just sort of briefly peruse Hollywood reporter and deadline, just to see if I missed anything and to slightly prepare for what you're going to hit me with. So I thought maybe I want to start with Lonesome Dove 2, which was on deadline a day or two ago. Well, this has been a strange week, right? Like there was a story on a, on a site called not boring.co that talked about everyone is reading Lonesome Dove, which I feel like has been a pretty consistent trend for the last couple of years, but yes, especially recently, the person who wrote the, the piece was nice enough to give us some credit for like starting a wave. I love it. Geo Tolentino wrote like a long piece about it in New Yorker. I mean, I think Lonesome Dove has been. There's a new addition with an introduction by, I believe, Kyle from Lyonus. I'm sorry, his alter ego, Taylor Sheridan, and you open it up. He's like, if you're reading this book, you have no rights. I'm like, no, I just lost my rights. So it's been in the, it's been in the, the ether. I think we had talked about the beating war that had been happening where I think the Murtree, Larry Murtree, the author of Lonesome Dove, obviously one of our favorite writers and a celebrated screenwriter and novelist over the last few decades to pass away a few years ago. 2021. I remember utilizing him on COVID, well, you scrolled Twitter. Yeah. I was like, God damn, these are some great takes from Ezra Klein. I've just kind of released this platform. And we talked about the big sale that happened for the rights to, for the Lonesome Dove series. It's the tetrology of four novels. And a man named Thomas Tol, who used to be a legendary executive, legendary pictures executive, won the rights from Jameson Murtree. Larry Son. Larry Son. And he runs a company called Teton Ridge. And it's, you know, kind of went silent after that for a while. Well, it went silent outside the Hollywood bubble. There were, there was clamoring for it. Like he basically, it went on the market to, to attach creatives and also to find a streaming hall. Which I did not know. I, I don't think I knew that it was like in the process of finding creatives. And I didn't know that they were as far along as they were because shortly after this, this blog post went up to kind of saying like, people are still reading Lonesome Dove, the summer of Dove never ended. Zoe Kazan, Jeb Stewart, are announced as the co-writers and co-showrunners of the series. And Netflix will be the, the streamer for it, will be the home for it. And not only that, but they have, they've bought into streets of Laredo, Camacho Moon, Deadman Walk, Deadman's Walk and Lonesome Dove. So it is the entire call and McCray epic, epic, which is really exciting. It is really exciting. I think one of the other, so let's, let's start from, let's do two things. One, reading Lonesome Dove is one of the most pleasurable experiences of my adult life. It is one of the greatest American novels of all time. It is, to read it is to not just lose yourself into, it's an incredibly engaging adventure, narrative, and a vision of America that is timeless and alluring and horrifying equal measure. But it also reads you into the Hat Creed cattle club of society, of people who are also like, welcome brother, or welcome sister, like it is, it is a wonderfully, like communal experience. And I remember when we were reading it together during COVID and even before we started podcasting about it, we were talking about it. And we would get messages from people we know, or barely know, or like, or admire, like Elwood Read the Showrunner was like, you have inspired me to read it for a fifth time. Like, I can't wait to saddle up again. So the, the sort of, the slow march of this book back into the public consciousness on this level is awesome. And when we did part about it, we also talked about the fact that Lonesome Dove is iconic in two mediums. The mini series on CBS from the 80s with, with DuVal and Tommy Lee Jones is widely considered to be one of if not the best mini series of all time, and we covered that as well. And we were really, I think, struck by how incredibly also timeless some of it was and also how 80s TV some of it was. And what to circle all the way around, it's very exciting to think of a project that will be translating Lonesome Dove in totality, meaning that Street to Laredo, which we'll talk about more in a second, which is really an intense corrective, not just to some of the absences in Lonesome Dove, like Native life, internal lives of women, trains, the existence of trains, which he admits he forgot about when he wrote Lonesome Dove, but also to the myth making of the fandom of Lonesome Dove, which he wrote as a tragedy, but was hailed as like a return. It's kind of like a born in the USA situation where everyone was like, man, what a great song about being born in the USA. Yeah, and it's like, it's about Vietnam and debt, you know? Yeah. So the idea that they could begin the story knowing the scope of it and maybe honoring our friend Larry's fuller intentions for the project is it's thrilling. I don't really remember the mini series, what it leaves out that I was like, oh my God, I mean, like the mini series does a very nice job of hitting a lot of the highlight moments. There's very little Po Campo. That's right. One of my favorite of the chefs, the cooks of the two cooks, the company them top two. He's definitely a great Bill List, top two Lonesome Dove chefs go also chefs doing a lot of work there. Yeah. I agree with you about the book. I was talking with Tyler Parker and the or a rare colleague and wait a second co-host last about this and we really have your Nobody doesn't love this book who read it, you know, like, does anybody read this book and say, nah, not for me. I don't think so. I think it kind of is. I know this sounds weird, but like, is this what Huckleberry Finn is supposed to be? Is this book like the Great American novel, the Great American Journey, the Great American, like, you know, shared experience of a dream of a place that doesn't quite crumb true? I think it's like, it's kind of emerging as that. Maybe not in universities and maybe not in literary supplements, but, you know, as my guy Taylor tells me, you can't trust everything you learn at a good school. That's right. The communist infiltration of the schools have not managed to ex out this book yet. And speaking of Taylor, you know, you had mentioned him in passing because he did write a forward for or an introduction for the most recent edition of Lonesome Dove. And he talks about the immense impact it had on his life, very sincerely. In Kim Masters is right up. So the journalist Kim Masters is a really, really well-sourced journalist out here in Hollywood. And she wrote a piece within the structure of Matt Belenese, when I'm hearing newsletter for Puck. And she talked about the bidding war that just happened. So Zoe Kazan, Jeb Stewart, they have East of Eden coming in October on Netflix, evidently Netflix is very satisfied with what they did and how they did it. And had a good experience working with that. They announced that they had, they were ready to take meetings about who was going to do this. I believe they have some, some pages, you know, like they have, they have started this process in earnest. You're saying there's a script? Yeah. And they took meetings like a week ago, and it was expected that there was going to be a lot of competition for it. What most people would expect, just given the subject matter and the fact that the original Lonesome Dove mini-series aired on CBS in the first place, was that Paramount was going to be involved. And they were not. And Kim's piece, I think I would say delights in poking fun at the fact that Ellison, David Ellison missed out on this, found out that no one bid on Lonesome Dove and tried to come in with like a late, a late-inning offer. Yeah. But Netflix had already sewn up the deal. I do wonder whether or not like Taylor Sheridan is leaving that. I thought you were going to say I do wonder if the Justice Department can break up this deal. No. Rob Bonta, do your duty. If Mike Pence has the courage, this will, this won't happen. This will be Kevin Backston's big Hail Mary. It was like, waiting to bring, I don't even know the fuck that guy. Not make a foot of his eye, but I am happy that I think it took. Yeah. I think Ken Paxton makes fun of a lot of things I believe in. So I think it's a lot of things that you believe. Yeah. I think I think some stuff that I think don't get aggregate. It sounded like you were saying he makes fun of the things I want to make fun of. No, no, no, no. You were not saying that. He was not saying that. No, I was saying I bet if Ken Paxton watched his pot, he'd be like, look at this fucking guy in the organ hat. You know, so I'm just, you think he would go after you first, which camera's on? You might be lucky to catch a straight. You know what? See our never misses. I'm just saying if there are only two options, yeah, you think he's gonna go for Ken Paxton? Ken Paxton would, he would much rather run against me. Okay. I don't blame him. I would not do well running for statewide office in Texas. Yeah. Okay. Okay. From Beto to Beta. I mean, can you just see the headlines? Yeah. Come on. Um, where was I? I was cooking up a imaginary conspiracy theory that this, the one of the reasons why this wouldn't be a paramount was because Taylor but no longer be at Paramount soon because he's taking his television wears to universal. This, I cannot imagine he had no interest in making this. And I wonder whether it was like, well, we can't bring Lonesome Doug in and not have him do it. Right. You know what I mean? Like it was, it just seemed to me. I wonder if there's a Taylor Sheridan element of Paramount not making it a bit in earnest for this. There's the case for Paramount to make it for legacy reasons and because so much of what we see do think and feel are based on the whims of billionaires. Right. So if David Ellsson really loves it, that's good. If David Ellsson really dislikes other things, that could be bad. Like, um, freedom of speech, whatever. Who knows? Cut that for the ad. You guys could cut a incredible attack at, I mean, just from the first 10 minutes of this but it's okay. I don't need your endorsement. Let me turn around the water bottle I brought from, I borrowed from my daughters today, which is an REI outdoorsman water bottle. So let's just really lean into the problems here. There's the case to be made of why they should have had it, but there is also an aggressive case why it makes sense for Netflix because in this new like they have kind of a prestige division era where they want to grab a piece of the marketplace that they either had never had or kind of let had seeded a little bit to Apple and HBO exactly. This is the best of all worlds because it is not just high-minded, prestigious, literary, cinematic because they're banking on with with Zoe Kazan did with East of Eden, but also pretty red meat, like pretty right down the middle, incredibly popular entertainment. So it is kind of a no-brainer to me that they would, in a level playing field that bit everyone else for it. I have one one plea. Yeah, I got a couple. Please shoot this in Texas. Yes. Yes. Oh, oh, no. Yeah. Are you thinking like New Zealanders? Well, New Zealand is the setting for East of Eden. Now, East of Eden, I believe, I mean, they could have been shooting this for quite some time. I think East of Eden started shooting. It may have been a COVID era like this is a good place to shoot if like we're coming out and we still have I feel like East of Eden's been shot for a while. I don't think we have the right read on. I think it has been, but we don't have the right read on the timeline because I think it was announced a long time ago. Yes. And I think it was originally for a different streaming service when I was announced. I think it was Apple and Netflix picked it up. Okay. So I think we may be dating it to our knowledge of the project, but that's probably how they were shooting. Anyway, I understand why people shoot things in other countries and the tax breaks they get and the labor costs that they have. It is what it is. I hate it, but this is an authentically Texan and Western story. Yeah. Texan Montana story. If we can't get behind this, like, what are we doing? You know, I agree. That being said, I just said on the previous podcast we did, I believe when we were talking about maybe when the East of Eden trailer came out, so it was a couple podcasts ago. I said, you know, based on the trailer, it seems like Zoe Kazan has like reconfigured the East of Eden story a bit to be a little bit more about the Kathy character, which is not really what you would get from it if you were reading the back of the book, say, you know, that is not what usually people lead with as what's East of Eden about. Yes. If I, and I said, I really support that. I think it's like cool to see people who find different angles with their adaptations. And I don't think that everything needs to be a page for page recreation. So I have to then also stand on business and say, yes, Zoe Kazan, do do your thing with learn some stuff. Now, I think that she is probably coming at this with like an incredible amount of reverence as is Jeb Stewart. Jeb Stewart for people who don't know is a legendary screenwriter and producer who worked on the fugitive and die hard and has bones has like old structural bones in the genre of filmmaking world. And honestly, I feel like being named Jeb and doing Lonesome Devil opens some doors for some locations in Texas. I don't mean to get back since it's going to be like, you mean Jeb Stewart, the Confederate General? The first thing on Google, just tell him to only Google once, he'll be thrilled. So I guess I just was going to say is just like, I'm prepared to, I mean, I have no idea how they're going to approach this, but I wouldn't, I think it's important to be like supportive of like you do not have to shoot it exactly as it happens. No, I appreciate you're being honest here holding yourself to account. Intellectually, I agree with you. Emotionally. Emotionally, I'm in a bit of, I'm in some tumult. Yeah. The feeling that I feel this is, this is maybe, this is definitely an inexact comparison, but it reminds me of two years ago, like when the Eagles, I don't know if you remember they went to the Super Bowl, but like when a team that you spend all of your life obsessing over and consuming and like breaking down suddenly is in the public sphere and there are no other teams left and everybody's doing it. There's a very intense feeling for me of like, it makes me more anxious. You're trying to gatekeep the Eagles. I was trying to gatekeep the NFC champion Philadelphia Eagles. No, but like, I'm very emotionally involved in the narratives as they mean what they mean to me and I've suddenly everyone's looking. Yeah. And Lonesome Dove does not belong to us, but I do feel so intimately connected to it that the thought of it being dissected again, put back together, examined, re-contextualized, shaken up, makes me nervous. It doesn't mean I don't trust these people to do it. I think there's a lot of opportunity to not just to obviously go deeper than the miniseries, which you know, cast a white actor, Frederick Forest, as Blue Duck. I think there's some moments there that a lot of people would like to take back. We'd like to go to review and see if VAR. The flag was up. What's the racism flag was up? Sorry. So and the fact that we were alluding to the larger four book series give some nuance to characters like Blue Duck and the native people in general in, you know, in terms of the timeline of what was going on for them while Gus and, well, Gus and Carl were coming up themselves. And it also gives context to other characters like P.I. who is a sort of comic relief character in not just in Lonesome Dove, but particularly in the miniseries. I believe is then in the miniseries of Streets of Laredo is played by Sam Shepherd, which is a legendary glow up. Now you could see the fact that maybe he's a little bit handsome in addition to being dippy, you know, in the first one. So you can build with that larger sense of, the larger sense of scale. But I do think the one thing that is going to be interesting for them to translate is that this book is, this book is for everyone. And we have talked about we have written and other people have written that Larry McMurtry, especially for writers of his era, was one of the very best male writers of female characters and just had such a deep in life and on the page curiosity in his female characters and invested them with so much more than many of his contemporaries and peers. But this story, this book is so incredibly insightful about aging male friendship. In a way, it is, you know, the father of our style. No, but, but sincerely, like about emotion or lack of emotion and connection and purpose and sort of a quixotic purpose, like it is a deeply, those characters are deeply male-coded in a way that I think also is worth exploring on the screen. I think I got Ken Paxson's vote. I think male friendship is worth a look, you know, we haven't really gotten a lot of examples. Okay, but I'm trying to make the case that it's particularly nuanced in this book. And it is one of the ways that McMurtry was cutting against the expectation of two pals go on an adventure. Yeah, absolutely. So I did a little bit of back of the envelope casting what ifs. Did you see this is what you do when I'm doing other stuff? I just want to bounce some ideas off. Okay. This is a really difficult thing to cast not be just because Robert Uval and Tommy Lee Jones own these parts. But we've got a bit of of an emergency in American acting. You know, there was actually like recently a bit of like there was like a story about it was just basically one of those like here's a chart and you're like, oh, okay, that seems good or bad. But like it was basically about the the increase in British actors in American films and television and the decrease in American actors. And the pipeline is a little dry. Like not only in terms of performers in the age brackets that we're looking at for these characters, but also performers who don't look like they were on the Mickey Mouse Club 10 years ago. Yes. And so we got to talk this out to me or actors who haven't continued to address their lack of Mickey Mouse features with some external work. Makeup is a powerful thing. Now it's also worth noting that we're talking about Lonesome Dove. Then Streets of Laredo is the sequel. So that would be a very aged character in that yes, book. We won't want to spoil anything for anyone. And then Deadman's Walk, Comanche Moon, Prequels. Yes. And I would imagine we're going to get two sets of call in McCray. I don't think we're going to have one person play all these different parts because we're we've got like early 20s to late 60s. I believe for 70s. And I we have no reason to think that they are doing anything other than tracking the not just the recommended reading order, but the publication order. Meaning Lonesome Dove chronologically is third. Yes. But it was the first publish. Yes. And it's the most popular and it's where you should start. Lonesome Dove will be the third. They're going to make Lonesome Dove. Yes. And if it works, they will make more Lonesome Dove. But they are making Lonesome Dove. But they will take in the other books. But yes. The preferred reading order is in chronological terms is 3, 4, 1, 2. So the hardest thing for me to do was to unwind my initial thought about Gus and Woodrow. You okay. And it's McConaughey and Harrison. Wow. I know it comes with a lot of baggage. They're about to do their second TV show together, brothers on Apple. Yeah. Is it about male friendship? It is actually. And I'll watch it. And I think people would bring some true detective baggage to it. Is it smart? Their Texans. Yeah. They're the right age. They actually are. I think you can age them up or down a bit if you needed to as evidence and true detective, where they they they span decade. I mean, they're both comfortably. I believe older than Tommy Lee Jones was when he aged up to play call in 1989. Yes. Obviously, Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duval had a more weathered look than I think Woody Harrelson and we were in a different place with peptides then. Yes. Here's a couple of concern trolls about this idea. Okay. Number one, A is like are people going to be able to get over like that's Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey? I think they would. Number two. And by the way, you're saying McConaughey as call and Woody as Gus. I think that's the obvious one. I think you could invert it if you wanted to be like, do you guys want to try something different? I think McConaughey could play both parts, but I don't know about Woody. I think Woody in true detective showed that there is some woodrow in him. Some woodrow in Woody. Yeah. I think that there is like he would have that capacity. And I think Matthew McConaughey could certainly play a rascal. But when I close my eyes, I can see Woody Harrelson making biscuits. Yes. Beautifully said. So let's start there. Okay. Great. Do you have any other suggestions off the top of your head of an actor, say age 40 to 60 who could embody either of those two parts diabolical? Well, you know why it's diabolical? I was not prepped for this because there really aren't any. And also, you very quickly need to then start thinking about Australian and English actors. Yeah. Yeah. The drop off from McConaughey and Harrelson to A. Hemsworth is quite steep or even a guy pierce or even a I mean Ethan Hawke, I think could could potentially look okay on a horse. Yeah. But yeah. Let's go to Jake Spoon. Okay. Jake Spoon, we've talked about this many times, but one of the interesting things about the original mini series that I'm sure they will correct is that there is such a there's a very bright line between the movie actors that did this and the TV actors at the time. Well, thankfully there is no line anymore. There is no line anymore. And that's not necessarily a dig against Robert Eurick. Robert Eurick or Ricky Schroeder, but they had there's a differing level of charisma on screen in that mini series. How about Tom Pell-Free or Ebb and Moss Backrack? I think it's great. You've got to have somebody who's so full of the shifting. Incredibly charismatic and incredibly self-sabotaging and has a lot of demons, but is also like able to be a true snake charmer. Are you going to say Bernthal is blue duck? Look me in the eye and say it's not on your list. It's not on my list. I haven't gone that deep down the casting line. I have a couple others that I'll throw out there. For dish, I did break my America first edit and I do have Leo Woodall as dish. That's cool. And for nude, it's really hard because I think even though nude's supposed to be like 17, I have Jacob Loughland. Okay. Laman Jacob Loughland. Yeah, he's good, but he's a little older. He's older than nude, like demonstrably. I don't know if you aged nude up. I don't know like what you want to do with that. You have a deets? I don't. McEath Stanfield? I think it's pretty good, man. I think I- This is exciting. Yeah. They should hire us. I'll just say it. They should bring us on. Male friendship consultants. Deets is in his 40s? I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, you can do what you want with it. I mean, Danny Glover played him famously in the miniseries and was incredible. Yeah, I think that's exciting. Do we have a Paul Dano spot? Yes. July Johnson? That's a great call. That's going to be a fun one to cast because it really is going to reflect like how people see this character and his arc is a little more heroic seeming. But it depends how you see the character. It's Chris Cooper in the miniseries, play the part, young Chris Cooper. By the way, another potential Jake Spoon would be Anthony Star, not American. That's pretty good, though. But then we start getting the Aussies in here, you know? It's exciting. I mean, it would be- it would be really meaningful, I think, to us for this to be done right and also to be done expansively. And by that, I mean, expansively. Yeah. Correctly. And, you know, for the, you know, not for the long haul meaning they're going to like squeeze 10 seasons out of this, but that they will really tell a full story. I would imagine it's a season per per book. I don't think they're going to do Lonesome Dove over the course of multiple seasons, do you? I think my- my- my- my dressing green mold? Yeah, my guess is that Lonesome Dove is the name of the series that they are going to make. And in success, it will be longer and include other chapters. so to speak. But I also wonder if there's like, this is the other reason why it would have been interesting. I mean, I don't want Taylor to do this show, but he's the way that he franchises himself. Like there are so many stories here. And certainly like Comanche Moon, which is the weakest of the series, just is kind of like this wild tumble of like stories back over 40 years. And in it, you get more context on the characters that we've come to know and love, but also brand new characters that he was just throwing out there. There's a the union general who has his eyelids cut off. Yeah. And then we're sunglasses. But there's also real historical figures like Charles Goodnight, who is a real rancher who was very, very prominent in the West. And one of the incredible things about the book is when they just cross paths with him. Yeah. And he's incredibly odd. But McMurtry did his research and created an indelible character out of a historical figure. And so if you expanded it and expanded the B-story and C-story and then maybe had a companion series, you could do a lot here. I like your casting. Thank you. Welcome. I think McConaughey and Harrelson. But do you think like you're just you're 100% right, though, that the list like the Netflix has lists that maybe even reach out to people. And do you think the list is even 50% American? I don't know. I really don't know. I mean, I don't know whether or not audience is carrying more, you know, if it's like I said, if it's if they made Gus and Woodrow Russell pro and Guy Pierce would people be like, I'm furious about this. You can't you can't cast two Australian guys. No. I mean, Australians, Australians are the Texans of England. So I think that would be different. Okay, we'd see our inbox. I don't think you can pin us down. Just think you know which way we'd vote in Texas. But other than that, other than that, you don't know. We're scrambling up the perceptions of the parties. I wanted to talk to you a little bit. We obviously will continue to moderate in this situation. Was there any other like headline news that you wanted to just guess? It's like 1230 now. We've been doing this. Is there any other headline news? I don't know. You spoke to me with a computer. So I closed everything down. I didn't see anything. So there's that. How about that? You didn't want to talk about the Y5O movie. Did you? No, but sometimes you surprise me. Sometimes you say stuff that I didn't know about. Well, by that same token of me saying, like Zoe Kazan's allowed to do whatever she wants with Lonesome Dove. Right. I suppose and the fact that Lonesome Dove is being made at all. Is it really would it be cherished to be like who needs Y5O? I think Lonesome Dove probably has a bigger footprint in American culture than Y5O. Well, Y5O is also done but has it ever been it has it been a movie? I guess not. Yeah, there you go. There's more to explore on the big screen. Also, now it's Sean and Amanda's problem. Enjoy. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plum, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. Do you want to talk about the Emmys? Tell me tell me where what you're thinking. Because I know you've really spent the last few days pouring over the creative arts and many results. No, but I did read a little bit about them to get a sense. I mean, you were very right that the widow's bay train has left the station. Yeah. And there is no break man. You know, like it's it's just true Denzel and Chris Piner, the only two people who could stop widow's bay at this point. A little unstoppable joke for people. I got it. Thank you. I want to go through the five or six major categories here. Yep. And say what will win and what should win? Okay. I'm calling up the norms. So when we start with comedy series, okay. Avid Elementary, the bear, hacks, Margot's got money troubles. Nobody wants this. Only murders in the building. Shrinking widow's bay. Okay. I think this is a should win will win. But like the same answer. I think it's what is bad. Yeah. Widow's Bay is going to win. This is this is a book it put it in stone. I think it's pretty thrilling. I think it's deserving. I think it is a rare case where it's I think, you know, at our midseason check in, it was maybe both of our number one shows are certainly in the top two or three. It's one of the most exciting shows of the year. And happy to report to all the comedy police out there that I think it's the funniest of all of these nominees. So I personally thought the bear was funnier, but that's okay. Because you like Ken Paxson, you laugh at trauma. Ken Paxson, like, car me again. I can't believe it. This guy doesn't handle pressure well. Making it sound reasonable. Because I just don't even know how he talks. I've never been like time to watch some packs in tape. I would check in with you. Because sometimes you're like, if I just kept sending you back. No, because sometimes you're like, you know, honestly, it's incredible to be child-free. Like, we watch these movies. We go for long walks. I get to have these drinks in my wife, you know, and then, but then there's the beside of it where you're like, just crushing. Yeah. I'm like, you were, it's going on the insurance industry. I'm worried about that. I do. Got to hand it. Trump ethers this guy every time he introduces him. He's like, this guy looks like absolute shit. I hate this guy. He's like a dirt bag. Please vote for him for your next, your next senator. Yeah. Okay. So widow's bay, woodwind, shall win, should win in for comedy for drama. The diplomat, the gilded age, a knight of the seven kingdoms, paradise the pit, pluribus, slow horses, your friends and neighbors. What do you think should win? It's a tough one. Because as has been the case for the last few years, I think that this category is really an assortment of gentlemen's bees and bee pluses, other than honestly your friends and neighbors. And paradise is, you know, maybe it's sort of the meme with the three dragon heads, and it's the crazy one. Yeah. But I respect it for that. And interestingly, like, Shilin Woodley won an Emmy for her performance on paradise of the season. I would say there are three, and I, full disclosure, I have not watched the diplomat season two or the gilded age seasons any. But I think that there are three stronger candidates here that I could get behind. I think you can make the case for knight of the seven kingdoms because it was so deeply surprising and just so absolutely wonderfully made. A rare example of a show, especially a first season of a show, just hitting its target and communicating it right from jump. I would make a case for pleuribus because it was unlike anything else and engaging in ways that felt unfamiliar since the last time Vince Gilligan was on our TV screens with Better Call Saul. And then the third one that deserves it is the one that's going to win, which is the pit. Yep. I think that the pit will win, and I think that pleuribus should win. I have a tendency, I think, to get tired of monarchies or dynasties rather in awards. The Emmys are particularly vulnerable to having a seven year run of a show, you know, or a five year run of a show winning every year, kind of no matter what. It's no knock against the pit's excellent second season. I just think that pleuribus is the kind of show that I think should be celebrated. And I think actually did some interesting things with TV that I hadn't seen before. I love that show and I think it should be celebrated in that regard. But I understand that the pit is going to win. I think someone has to come and take the pit's crown. And I think it's going to take a really big show to do that. It is. I think it would either take a show that can succeed on the pit's terms, which is making everyone love TV again in a very familiar and old-fashioned way and hitting its release dates and being an ever-present part of our lives, which is incredibly hard to do. Or it's going to have to snatch it from the other side of the aisle and be a no doubter prestige drama firing on all cylinders of which we don't have that many anymore. And by that I mean, you know, in the in the mold of a madman or a soprano, is there a better call Saul or maybe in season two in success, pleuribus? In anthology. Yeah. Which has become kind of the forgotten category, I think, because whether it's because if you make a good limited series or anthology series, it tends to then become a continuing drama. We have all her fault, the beast and me, beef, DTF St. Louis, and love story, John F. Kennedy and Carolyn Besett. And by the way, did we set? I imagine you said a moment ago when I was desperately trying to find a list of the nominees that the words are Monday night. Yes, because they're ducking. They're ducking. They're ducking NFL. Yeah, they're ducking Raj shameful. Yeah. Okay. So I feel like this is a category where I've sampled most of them, although I did not, I did not get on that plane for love story. Did you? I think I would probably say that beef should win. I watched a couple of episodes of love story and was not a fan. I watched a couple of episodes of all her fault. It was not my jam. I liked beast and me. I liked beef. I respect DTF St. Louis, but it wasn't really my favorite. I think DTF St. Louis is going to win. Yes. And I am happy for that because I think Steve Conradge keep making shows. And I want him to have like the award kind of backing. It's an incredible story. I mean, I think beef is one of my top three shows of the year. I think beef should win. I think it was. Yeah. Can I tell you something? Yeah. You're starting to have too many shows to be in your top three. No, I've got three. Furious beef. And what does that? Yeah. Damn dog. Locked in. I'm not making up, but you know, because sometimes you can be like, this is definitely top two. That's what I do with music. That's what I would be like just to get in this attention economy. I would try to, you know, grab you and say like, this is definitely the single greatest song of the decade. Sure. Sure. That worked for me for a few years. It did. I mean, it works for everybody, you know, for a little while it works for Drake May. It's careful. Yeah. I think TTF St. I think that's something that we also the creative arts. I mean, kind of showed that there was a tremendous amount of momentum for that show. I think that's a credit to the show, which did connect with people. I think it's a credit to HBO's incredibly impressive marketing and awards team in terms of getting, pushing a narrative, making it, I mean, the show got good rating. So I'm not saying it was an uphill climb, but they are very good at doing this when they have something to work with. But separate apart from the fact that I didn't enjoy watching the series, I think it's a great story because Steve Conrad is someone who has made a beloved shows that were criminally or under scene. Yeah. And was had the reputation of someone. Yeah. And then perpetual grace. LTV. And then he made the puppet show also. Ultra City Smith's good for you. Thanks. It's an incredible thing. Then when you get like no disrespect to our friends at Amazon Prime Video 10 years ago, but like you get the call of the majors and you just start throwing gas. Yep. And if you're given the right opportunity and the right marketing and the right casting and the right push, you can connect. I think that's a nice story. It's, it's R&M, R&M signing with Warner's, you know what I mean, putting out green. I will. So yeah, DTF should win or will win and I think, I think you should win, but I don't feel incredibly strong way about this one. Actor in a comedy. Yaya Abdul-Mateen, the second for Wonderman, Steve Carell, for Rooster, Matthew Reese for Widow's Bay, Jason Seagull for shrinking, Martin Short for only murders in the building. I'm going to pair this with something else, which is actor in an anthology limited or. I was hoping you'd bring this one up. Riz Ahmed and Bait, Jason Baitman in Black Rabbit, Charlie Hunim and Monster, the Edgene story, Oscar Isaac and beef, Matthew Reese in the Beast in me. Now, I just got done reading a wonderful back and forth between Katie Rich and Chris Rosen in the anchor, going over the creative arts Emmys, talking about the momentum, making some predictions for the Emmys. So this was something that I had not really even deeply contemplated until yesterday. It's Matthew Reese going to win both these awards. I think there's a real chance. Did you watch Bait the Riz Ahmed show a little bit? Yes, he's great. He's always good. I feel bad that I did not watch that. I think that this is a category where there is a chance that someone like Charlie Hunim could win for, I mean, award shows whether they are Oscars or the Emmys, love it when actors play real life people, whether they are popular musicians or monstrous serial killers. There's a path there, I think for him. I don't, I think Jason Baitman might win for a DTF, so I don't think he'll win here. Or was he not nominated for DTF? I guess would it be in this category or did David Harbor beat him? He was only nominated for for for for for for the Black Rabbits. So are people going to check the box if they like DTF? I don't know. The more I look at it, the more it seems like the resmentum might be unstoppable, especially because Chris and Katie did point out that they could be more different. anthology limited as a strange historically strange award that sometimes goes against the green. But I think that things are lining up for it to be like this dude is the most delightful and best actor on television. Let's give him two awards to the extent that there is a group thing like that. So I think he will win and should win for widow's bay. I really liked Jason Baitman in Black Rabbit. Yeah. I thought it was some of his best work. It was also like off beat for him. It was some of his best hair. For sure. Top three Jason Baitman hair. Top two. Well, it would be this. Yeah. The cotton and dodgeball. Great call. Great call. And the Hogan family. Yeah. When it was pure. Yeah. That original that original cut. So are we saying Matt Reese would should win would look I don't want to say anything against him. I think one of the things that's been really fun just as a fan of him for years since the Americans and as someone both of us who have been in the room with him when he's come on the podcast. Genuinely one of the most delightful people we've ever hung out with. Can I give you a bunch of money? And his reputation deserved in the industry has been like this is guys the real deal. He can do comedy. He can do drama. He can do anything. But I never got the sense that he was recognized like by the general public as the superstar that he is. And that I think widow's bay despite being limited by the viewers on Apple has changed the narrative about that. And I think people will vote for him just to get him on stage again. He's navigating modern television better than any actor I can think of. It's a good prompt. I know that's not even like a give me somebody who does it better. I just mean like the choices he's making the variety of roles he gets to play. Yeah. And the way he can like move from sort of prestige but pulpy crime show to a quirky comic horror to, you know, like it is needed to lead in presumed innocence season two also. I think you might be right. Or are you joking? I'm not joking. Yeah. Our guy mastered his own schedule. I will say that actress in a comedy, Quinta Brunson for Abbott, Iowa to Barry for the bear, L fanning for Margot's got money troubles, Lisa Kudrow for the comeback, Jean Smart for Hacks. This one feels the Jean, this is where Hacks is going to get its awards. I think so. Award. The only other one that I would I could see happening is L fanning because clearly clearly Emmy voters like Margot's got money troubles. And I think she's great in it. Yeah. I don't think you can, I don't think you could bet against the person who has wanted every year that she's been nominated. I have an outside, I don't think this is going to happen, but I have an outside IO bet to you. If I was going to, if we were betting this, is this what Bill and Sal were talking about when they said teasers are back? Is that what this means? Because I didn't know. I thought she was fantastic. And so funny, hilarious, right? You laughed. You laughed. She's worried about her dead actor. I think she's awesome, but I think the combination will win. Who should win? L fanning. Well, I would say, look, the IO argument is a good one to make because over the course of the series, she has shown an incredibly broad skill set. I mean, it is weird to say like that was a comic performance. No, exactly, but it is a award worthy performance over five seasons, but I think the general turn, not just in my opinion of the last season, but I think the awards voting membership turn. And by the way, this is, this would be for the fourth season. So all this can happen again next year. So you're not going to be getting, the bear is going to be nominated again next year, most likely in some of these categories, if not all of them. And so if there's any legacy last time up bounce, it would come next year. Okay. Quinta has won this award, right? I believe she did in between the gene smarts. Or I just remember her winning for the show. She won outstanding lead actress in a comedy in 2022. Let me decide. You know, okay. All right. This is one of your voters decide. Actor in a drama, Sterling K Brown paradise, Gary Oldman and Slow Horses, Mark Ruffalo and Task, Rufus Sol and the diplomat know Wiley in the pit. No, Wiley's going to win this. Yep. You want to have a Wiley Ruffalo conversation. You want to have a Wiley Sterling Brown conversation. This is such an interesting category because the five actors nominated are all doing five distinct things. Yeah. I don't think there's very little overlap in terms of what they're being asked. Dr. Robbie certainly farts less than Jackson Lamb. That is true. Well, we don't know that because let's do it. You could do an investigation because I can't imagine you're going into the pit like nostrils open. Do you know what I mean? There's probably a lot of sense in that. That's what I'm saying in a lot of people to blame it on. Yeah. You can really spread the blame around in there. Like Gary Oldman's performance on Slow Horses is iconic, incredible, consistent, certainly worthy of celebration, but he because he does the same exact thing every year for potentially 10 straight years, I don't know when voters would be motivated to reward him for it up against flash year new things every fall. I don't watch the diplomat. I like Rufus Suel, but I don't think he's considered to be a main threat in this category. Sterling Brown is giving a very old school TV star. He's got a run. He's got a shoot. He's got to emote. He's got to carry a baby across jack from lost at the same time that's good the two jacks um oh the two jakes with the jack while he's going to win i think ruffalo should blame yeah i do too although the interesting thing here is while he is giving a you know an incredibly charismatic measured performance across what has already been 30 hours of television which is incomprehensible in competition with shows that guard are like six episodes every two years um the other difference is just like a marathon versus a sprinter because when ruffalo gave this incredibly searing brilliant performance that he gives in task which i agree with you he should win for he left it all in the field because i know there have been discussions about making a second season but that was not assured so the plot line he was given was a full arc still mad about task not being nominated for drama it's crazy it's crazy but but in a way but in a weird way his performance should be measured against um a mini series category because that's kind of the the the the intensity beginning middle and end that he gave uh actress and a drama uh-huh carry cune for the gilded age chase infinity for the testaments carry rustle for the diplomat race seahorn for pleuribus zendaya for euphoria that's a cool category i think zendaya should win i think carry rustle will win interesting i think zendaya is definitely deserving of winning for her performance being the fucking the pace car for a truly insane season of television serving this is like the pace car driving in front of like an massive car accident no you know she she is delivering like solid remarkable charismatic performance like a like an elite luxury vehicle and then behind her is the fury road menezeria she's and godry had fun with the top down yes and behind her is furious genuine yeah um i think that first of all i love an narrative i think carry rustle who is an incredible actress and still i think underrated winning while her husband wins one if not two words is incredibly sweet they're a lovely couple in real life and on screen and they deserve success happiness and recognition but i think racy horn should win um i think i think she's owed because i don't even think she was nominated for better call saw she not i think she was maybe nominated for the final season which was celebrated at the time but that even that was overdue the the show does not work without her it's written for her yeah um what she did over the course of one season is maybe fading slightly in our memory because it was was a brief period of time is only a couple weeks basically in the end of the year yeah um but it was astonishingly good um let's do actress anthology limited or movie to end this up uh claridane's in the beast of me uh sally field in remarkably bright creatures what do you think about remarkably bright creatures i don't understand what distinguishes this from any other Netflix movie so the idea that this is made for television in some way but was on netflix i don't understand so then like why isn't matt damon and rip the rip of eligible for best actor you know what i mean is he not it's a great question i mean he wasn't nominated but i guess i had this honestly this whole debate hadn't occurred to me until i saw sally field being nominated for for remarkably bright creatures she has that effect on people uh carry Mulligan for beef sarah pigeon for love story sarah snook for all her fault i don't have a ton of feeling about this one i suppose this makes it a poor last category for us to do i think sarah pigeon's gonna win i do too i have feelings about this and award shows love to anoint a star and she was the talking point coming out of that series which did gangbusters ratings i guess i would say carry mulligan that the two performances that i like the most here are carry mulligan and claridance and uh i think carry mulligan had a little bit more scope to it i didn't watch all her fault i can't imagine sarah snook being anything less than excellent i watched two or three episodes of that and then my wife informed me of what happened at the end yeah just between us was it in fact all of it it's okay nobody's listening it always is you know always is yeah uh i love carry mulligan's performance in beef and i would love to see her win i would say like for the beast in me which i did not finish i claridance was was doing it but that was not my favorite claridance performance so i really like this claridance performance because she has a normal job rich writer for the new york her super normal job do you want to talk about the second season of the paper i do i do i really do uh so this came out on i this is one of those weird like it's on mbc once a week but i believe the entire season is on peacock today right yeah dropping today oh no yet last night so it's out i uh had high hopes for this because i think that this is a classic sitcom situation where i think they might need a season to figure out some of the kinks and then they get to the second season they're like we know who who can do what on this show and we know where we want to take it and obviously it's something mbc believes in to the extent that it came back for a second season you know um i how do i say this take your time i don't know whether or not how much i want to like it is impacting how much i like it if that makes sense because of the expectations you carry into it or the fact that you want to show them this is a show that like i routinely like usually like to have one of these in rotations you know i am not i like having super store on in the background i don't mind you know like i like ending my night if if it's been a stressful day with a nice like modern family how i met your mother adults you know kind of in a new port light and a new port lights call it a Tuesday uh i think i i but i'm watching this show with like way more like is this working is this not working rather than just letting it happen and letting it be successful on its own terms i watch the first two episodes of this season as you instructed me the second episode definitely gave me like a lot more like okay like this this show can go a lot of different places and i think the characters are interesting and the jokes are getting more knowing of like what different performers can do what what did you you think of the the the episodes that you've seen from this new season i'm aligned with you in that i liked the first season fine and was also more than willing to give it a chance to find its footing i think one of the real challenges of this type of show and by this type of show we mean a hopefully long running ensemble comedy is that the choices you make at the beginning in terms of casting and where you place the characters on the game board and then let them go where you begin them is not often where you want them to end up and so there's just growing pains and we love and celebrate parks and rec and then you go back and you realize that Adam Scott and Roblo didn't join until like leave the third season so it takes these things these things take time and it's important to try to give some grace if the if the general vibes are promising and the season season one was promising enough to overcome i think a lot of the skepticism of where this many years later we're doing a direct spinoff of one of the most successful broadcasts comedies of all times i have i watched the first one and i thought of the season and i was like okay i like there's some funny things bubbling up here the idea that someone in the company has died that no one knows who actually was a black ops's meth cook from the bogna group yeah it's pretty rich comedic terrain it's it's a huge storyline on why not cross over the second episode was the one where at least for the first half of it i was like okay i see they're starting to cook now they're starting to understand certain pairings work better with each other writing towards those pairings writing understanding the characters and the performers that they're writing to and then the show did something that possibly cost me my fandom and what i mean is it tried to like there's a history a recent history of sitcoms overcoming what we perceive of because we know too much about tv shows as problems by steering right into them sure the example i would give is will they or won't they couples let's just have them do it and then move on you know not stretch it out over season after season after season like ala salmon dianne you're talking about Daniel Radcliffe and Megan the stallion and and Roger dinkettens right i wish we were talking more about that that is my favorite comedy of the year bar none one of the top three shows easily of 2026 no hesitation in saying um peacock division so this show you know for example with with net and merit ran right at that yeah the where it trips up i think it's the second episode really runs at the documentary conceit in a way that i found totally exhausting and vibe killing so to make clear what i mean the idea of the single cam documentary setup like modern family did that the office the original office did it the american office famously did it parks did it parks did it and never once said a documentary crew is following us we just i understand the visual language Christopher guest movies did that as well and they're doing straight to camera interview they do straight to straight to straight to camera but yes but they don't say it's a documentary crew the office announced the conceit and then pretty much ignored it until they ran out of story and then they tried to make a cameraman an emotional poochie in the gym and camera relationship when they completely ran out of other stuff to do and i was very angry about that in my grandland days and i remain remain quite angry about that. I feel like great day. and the people making the show are like, we need to deal with that elephant in the room early because otherwise, what are we doing? And so they hinted at some things in the first season, like Oscar being like, I'm not doing this again, I won't sign the release. How are they getting the private moment to the romantic moments? In the second episode of the season, Ned and Mayor, who are trying to keep their burgeoning relationship secret, go on a weekend outing and they're trying to keep what's going on secret from the office and there's some hijinks 'cause then they get a work call on the Zoom. - They're trying to be a weekend, and we can marry. - Yeah, fine, a great set up, comedy, tension, all that. But the camera conceit requires the show to devote real airtime and also writers' real estate to a camera crew jumping in a follow car and then hiring a delivery robot to spy on them while they are having sex in a hotel room. - The juice is not worth the squeeze. We know how to watch television shows at this point and the amount of effort being put into the conceit of it being a documentary that we don't care about is totally off-putting and silly to me and breaks up the momentum that the show is starting to form. Are you with me on this? I mean, I was militant design. - I'm very curious to know. So Michael Coleman also works on the show and he's, Greg Daniels is-- - He co-created with Greg Daniels. - And I think it's still involved. I mean, my point is that Michael Coleman comes from Nathan for you. - Yes. - Has a background in Nathan for you and a background in Conan. But like, I wonder whether there is a slight kind of societal commentary going on here. The first episode also features a lot of security camera footage. - Yes. - You would wonder if you were like actually assembling a documentary about a paper company. Like why do you need to have like all this syruptitious footage of people having personal meltdowns or personal romantic interludes. And I wonder whether it's supposed to be like a commentary on our surveillance thing, but be like a degree of which it's like messing with the conceit of like, we just take it face value that these characters are being observed. - But yeah, I appreciate the point of view. And I think that made for some exciting conversation when Greg Daniels was looking for a collaborator to create the show. But at a certain point, you've got to make a comedy that works on its own merits. And I also feel, I don't mean, I'm not concern trolling. I like the show. I want it to succeed. But there's some things here that are slightly concerning. And one is that like the lesson from the office that Greg Daniels was celebrated for and should be celebrated for was that how to take it from the very spiky, very brief British show, which I think had what eight episodes total or something like that, including the Christmas specials. I'm sure that number is slightly off, but it was low. - It was very funny, but also had like a real layer of melancholy to it. And I think in the office US, it was more just like, your work family can be your real family. - Yes, and it was like we feel in this country, like spend more time at work, why not? But also that Michael Scott was ultimately lovable and decent despite being foolish. That was the tweak that worked. The other brilliant conceit was, even though there were only four or five cast members listed in the opening credits famously in the office, they cast every background character with people they liked, people they fell in love with in the casting process, people they saw hope for, writers for the show, like Mindy Kaling. And the ensemble developed naturally from what they were seeing on the screen. And you can tell that they tried to run that back. There's nothing wrong with that. But what you end up with with the paper on the poster for season two, there are 11 people. That is a very, very big ensemble, even before you get to the other characters who aren't, even on a like Alan Havie, the old comedian, who's on Mad Men who plays the boss, or Nancy Lennahan, who's great on Widow's Bay, it's a really, really, really big ensemble. Yeah. And some of them are working. I'm just, you know what, I can't stop smiling. 'Cause I'm imagining an undecided voter in Texas. Thinking about what show to vote for. Cracking a USA day and there's a full page ad for the paper season two is like, that's simply too many people on the poster. I think it is too many people on the poster. I'd tell Rekord, I think common sense Americans can agree on that. I'm not trying to tell you who can be on your sports teams. I'm just saying it's too many people in a broadcast sitcom poster. It's an abundance mentality that frankly, we can't afford. That she's cake factory menu. Yeah. It's building an arch when people are struggling. Sure. Now I'm appealing to the purple voter. But what I mean is, like Alex Edelman, a very funny accomplished comedian and writer who writes for the show is on screen as a character who's so far because of the lack of screen time. His personality is kind of confused baby. There's room for that character to grow, but he's not popping yet. Yes, characters, but it's not that he's not popping. It's the problem. It's that others are like Eric Rahill as Travis is hilarious. And the rhythm is fantastic. And the show has never made me laugh harder than in the second episode when someone makes a stray comment and it just pans to him and he just sings the stained song. But they just said more of that, please. If I could film that on my phone, like that was great stuff. I also think that like Chelsea Fry is fantastic as mayor. So they're working pieces here. But then over on Mars, you've got Sabrina and Pachatory as Marelda, who they like, who is an incredibly odd and unique comic energy and who does not fit on this show. And they have not figured out how to account for that energy yet other than recently they're pairing it with Tim Key who's a brilliant British comedian, who they also hired. So I just get the sense that they walked into the store with a very big budget, but everything and everyone they liked and now they're having to figure it out in real time. And it is not a bad problem to have, but it is yet to translate into the results. - Not unlike adults. I don't think 10 episodes is enough per season. And I think that this is a genre and a style of television making that needs 10 hours, not 10 episodes. Like I think it needs like a longer runway to like work stuff out per season. I understand that there are economic headwinds that, and also perhaps like audience trends that make that impossible. But I'm gonna continue watch just because I really, - We like shows like that. - I think that's why I'm more in passion about it because I think they have every chance to succeed now. Good, but because like you said, the run times or the season orders are shorter, every episode feels more important than maybe it ought to. And the, so the criticism is increased. I think there's just some, my worry is that there's just some like original sins that you can't solve. And one of them is that Donald Gleason's character as the star doesn't work, doesn't fully make sense. And the first season, he's sort of, they're trying to find that sweet spot between like they did with Leslie Nope, where it's like in the first episode everyone hates him 'cause he's annoying and extreme. And then they're like, but they also secretly love him 'cause he works harder than everyone else. - Sure. - But also he's kind of a snakey weirdo and they can't decide where to land on that. And so then the axis spins towards your beloved as Marelda. And I'm just trying to tar you with like a foreign brush for the voters. - Why couldn't Diane Lane have gotten that part? - Well, I don't know if I want to make Ken Paxton like a big character on this show. I'm just gonna say that. - Do you think that you're gonna get a call later today and Bill's gonna be like, we need Paxton unrewatchable? (laughing) And he'll be like, hopefully Bill Paxton because that is probably a better lane for you. And he's gonna be like, no, would the movie be improved with Senate candidate Ken Paxton? - I also don't think that my Ken Paxton is translating the pure audio. - Oh, do you think because people, so are you encouraging people to fire up the YouTube here to see the face that goes with it? - Maybe. - Maybe. - But I also don't want to offend anyone if they're like, you know, like- - Your body changes when you do it. It's pretty impressive. I do think everyone should watch. Something, I don't know- - Sasha Baron go in. - I just didn't have it in the part. - Can we get the after dark lights? - Oh yeah, yeah, we gotta do this before we get out of here. I must spend all my remaining gasoline on the paper. I'm full. - I know, this is the number one topic on Andy's mind. I know that this has been covered on some of our NFL podcasts, specifically Fantasy. - Yeah. - But as a global, the citizen of the world and a global traveler. - Thank you. Thank you. - I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the two wolves of the NFL, Shawn McVeigh and Kyle McChannahan, who had two separate approaches to trans-Pacific travel. The San Francisco 49ers and the Los Angeles Rams, I believe, played today in Australia. - They do. - Although I suppose it is tomorrow in Australia. - It's 10 a.m. tomorrow in Australia. The San Francisco 49ers chose to fly a week early and attempt to acclimate to Australia time. - Yes, it was. - Los Angeles Rams. - I believe they booked their flight on Oceanic flight 815. L.A. to Sydney. - So we have Miles Garrett in seat eight. Aaron Donald in seat 18. - The MVP's in the front of the tailies. - Yeah. I've been fascinated by the story. - Wait, so say what they did. - And the Rams chose to basically go in and out. They're like, we're flying in. - Yesterday. - Playing a football game and then flying out. - Yes. - The idea being, the Rams will never acclimate and when they get back to California like the jet lag situation. Now, there are no two men that I trust more deeply with the wonders and the mysteries of the human body than Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan. - Certainly Kyle Shanahan has proven himself to be the hypocrites of our time. - Yes. - You know, just a, just like a born healer. - He has definitely convinced the world that it is not his insane training methods, but in fact, an electrical substation that makes all of his players' muscles explode in their own bodies. - Yes. - Yes. I think that this is the only story I care about to test this with us, A, B, A, B with us. Yes, I would give you first pick. Would you rather have a week to get ready or in and out, basically spending 50 hours on a flight within 72? What are you asking? What do you think? When ever I had to be at work in London on Monday, I would be like, can I leave on the Wednesday before? I would, sincerely though, I would leave on Friday. See, but I would do that for fun. I don't know. What do you think? Do you think that there is any truth to the idea if you just fly through it? Right. Jet lag never happens. Sure. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like a wonderful. Because I don't think that's true. No, I don't think it's true. I think it's happened to us up there. Yes. And I know that I read something about like the Airbus that the Rams were taking. Yes. And it's all life, flat compartments. And there's something specifically about it where they're like, it's going to be very quiet on the flight. Yes, but do you know why else it's going to be quiet? They book, they rent it or they procure these like luxury, double-decker, all life, flat to increase the comfort. And also, I would imagine to help players sleep during normal night hours. They also booked these planes that have no Wi-Fi. Now, for you and I, we've got our 600 page books. We have our thoughts. That's fine. But I think young men generally like to-- You don't think Tyson's and wants to rod dodge. All the way to Australia. I do not think it is good for their circadian rhythms or their life rhythms to be disconnected from the lifeblood of their young selves. So I worry about that too. The follow-up question. I could talk about this for an hour. I think this is so interesting. Like what entertainment was preloaded onto the flight? I think those guys would all be encouraged to get things under their iPads. And I think that it will be a contingent of people who are like, let's play some games of chance to pass the time. But do you think that who's the guy that we met, Kobe Turner? Is that the guy's name? Remember when we did mean his podcast and we were there with-- Yeah, he was also-- Yeah, the LA Rams. What if he forgot his iPad? What if he was focused on body health and he didn't download anything? He gets on the plane. And the only thing on the screen is like Irma Vep on the HBO, like all nine episodes. I'm not saying you would like it. Flying this plane. Yeah. I did book the entertainment system. Yeah. I think it is so-- And these are younger men. They're more, you know, they're more resilience than we are. And they are obviously devoted to the science of themselves and probably know what they need in a way that I'm still hoping to achieve before its curtains. But in no world does it make sense to me to just say, OK, OK, man, jet lag does not exist. We are playing on the other side of the fucking planet in 10 in the morning, two days from now, but it'll be your tomorrow. That is so disrespectful and crazy. And very on-brand, I think, with McVeigh's just like reality working identity as a head coach. Sure. It's wild to me because we have-- this is not meant as a brag, this is meant just like we have done the transit that we've done. That flight is 14 hours, I think. To Australia. Yeah. Isn't it like 18? 14 to 18. I don't know. It depends how fast Sean McVeigh's driving the plane because you know he is. The flight that we that we have done and that I was doing regularly for the last two years is 11 hours. And I have never felt more like the ooze from Ghostbusters 2 than that subsequent 24 hour period. I see. I think I fixed it. I still do that. You always do. You're at foils, you're having a plane. No, I have the 10 p.m. flight, gets in at 4 p.m. the next day. It's already dark. I go dark to dark. I just straight bane it. Like I'm straight bored in the darkness. And then I hold out on alcohol for like 10 minutes. 4 hours. Sure. And then as soon as it hits your lips, I know they say don't drink. No, I really fixes you for about 80 minutes. I still maintain that in 24, I would have been fine. It was just that I got 800 text messages about Trump winning again because I flew on election night. Yes. And I woke up at three in the morning and was like, fuck. Yeah. What does this mean for get back to this means for my calcium futures? Luckily, I was waiting for you with my cheery disposition. Yes. We then recorded the possibly worst episode of the watch ever the next day. It's fair. But otherwise I've not had a bad jet lag trip in a while. The jet lag thing for me isn't what I'm trying to what I'm trying to articulate is that I figured it out. Like I know what to do the night before. I know which flight to take. I can sleep on the plane. I get there. I have my routine. I even know what I like to do the next day. And I sleep that night. Like when you get there and you basically just have to make it to bedtime, it is okay. It's just that the next day I wake up thinking I'm fine, thinking I could go four quarters, you know, a professional football, at least my version of it, which is taking a bus to a flower market in Hackney. But inevitably that good will and good intention hits a brick wall at like 10 a.m. or even 11 or 12 when I perhaps invited you guys to join me for lunch. And then the food in front of us begins to move of its own accord. And the thought of ever ingesting anything again seems like absolute poison. So I feel like what you wanted to do is talk more about your personal experience and not I love to talk about my staffer. And by the way, note, Rochelle Cantine does a lovely Sunday lunch. And I apologize for what my behavior there last time. What I'm trying to say is you cannot mind game your way past physical circadian reality. And they're going to be super fucked up. I'd also be scared if I was the Niners. Yeah. Because everything I'm seeing from them is it's way nicer here. Like Christian McAfry is like I've never tasted coffee before like this. And what if those guys are like, I don't want to leave? Well, I mean, you really run that risk with the 49ers. Yeah. It is basically a furlough. Eight of them are going to blow out their killies anyway. So they're just going to be like, I guess we live in the Melbourne now. We're just going to rehab here. So we're a day ahead. Yeah. Of the American healthcare system. I find this so interesting. And I guess I guess we'll see what happens on the field. We shall. That'll be a big topic for us on Tuesday when we're back. So I think the plan is at least now we'll be back on Tuesday morning. Because we wanted to have the atmosphere to talk about and we'll also have lanterns. I hope everyone has a great weekend. In Los Angeles, please stay cool. It's been very unpleasant. It's awful. And next to Chi Chi and Sarah, we'll be back on Tuesday. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Maybe it's Mavily.