Emma Vigeland talks Abdul El-Sayed, the midterms and the Democratic Party

I'm so excited to have in the studio with me in Los Angeles. I'm a big land from the majority report You know where you love her. Good to see you. You might love me. You might not and that's okay too good to see you as well The clicks are clicks. Yeah, exactly right. We are What is it like a month until the midterms a little more? What's a vibe check? How you feeling? I mean what are you what are you watching for? I think that What six months ago we were talking about The best case scenario being Alaska's in play Texas is in play. Ohio is in play and now we're talking about Kansas We're talking about Iowa. We're talking about Florida. I'm certainly talking about Florida Angie Nixon I couldn't be more enthusiastic about her candidacy. She has like a message discipline that rivals Zorons and I I know that of course Florida has 1.5 million more Registered Republicans than they do Democrats, but independence are the largest growing constituency in this country and I think her message has Potency so we'll see if you can drive turn out, but she's not a funny Good it like yes. What was her thing? She's like do you still want to defund the police? She goes no I want to lock up my corrupt opponent Actually moving why would I want to deep on the police when I want you in prison for stealing ten million dollars from Floridians Which she continues to repeat talk about message discipline She never takes her foot off the gas like Abdul-Assa. Yeah, that that quote really got me I was like all right. I love that. Oh, yeah, like the bull case on Florida is we're seeing a huge shift in Latino voters The bear case is 10 gigantic media markets cost a ton of money has been sliding away from us the registration Advantage that you talked about but hey in a year where like things break our way for once It would definitely be in play. Yeah, and I I I'm glad you brought up the Latino voter piece because that is why it's so frustrating to read an article Like I did the other day about how Chuck Schumer is saying to donors that they should be Focusing on the Mississippi Senate race and putting money there where What Trump won Mississippi by 23 points and Florida was more like 12 or 13 and the demographics are better for Democrats with that Latino shift I I do think that there is a real aversion to both of the candidacies of Abdul-Assa Ed and Angie Nixon from the establishment of the Democratic Party That is frustrating to watch but I think it's in part because they understand that there are more candidates like this the Chuck Schumer's of the world their relevance goes away I yeah, I think um Chups Chucks relevance is waning if not gone already, but I do want to talk about a duel in a second, but let's start with Ken packed in The Senate candidate in Texas probably the worst person in the state that they could have fielded to run the cycle At the New York Times got to hold us some secret audio. We love secret audio from a fundraiser in DC I think it was about a lobbyist where he talked shit about Trump's midterm convention Somebody said to Paxon about Trump. Do you feel like he's a little bit of a drag? Paxon responded so to be honest with you the numbers when we did that convention It dropped our numbers everybody's numbers dropped right now. Yeah, not good. That's Bullish. I'm sure that'll go over walled the White House. Then there is this clip of Paxon defending himself for offering a child rapist a plea deal Where that person Adam Hoffman could walk away after serving just one day in jail. Let's watch that and yet the the criticism has been that I let a child Predator up having one day. Well, guess what? They served 60 days. It wasn't what we wanted but we did not control that situation. We did our best I've eaten that party of Epstein rap are we? No, and I do think that that is potent too because when you're associating abuse with Epstein and abuse of power people now intrinsically understand like the repatiusness of Epstein and that billionaire class is also Wasn't just the girls that they were abusing right like they they are also elites that people see as abusing The American people or our system the government and so you can translate that and tie This deference to elite petophiles to Ken Paxon. He is as you say Arguably the worst candidate that they could have fielded. I mean, I can literally but he's he's like Donald Trump But without the charisma as Trump will readily tell you and with a lot I mean Trump is sloppy in a weird way Paxon is sloppy in like a I don't know get get your crap together kind of way Trump's just like a clown, but If Paxon is saying that in a state like Texas man, I mean Trump This is the hostage situation that they deserve. I saw that you know He's kind of insisting that he's gonna be going to Iowa and Everybody no one wants him there, but they've made a deal with the devil so like Yeah, actually it's in the Senate candidate and I was at the Oval Office and Trump's like I'll be going to Iowa I'm very popular. She's like we love your agenda there sir like what you've been saying you yeah Paxon looks like he's been on like a seven-day bender. Yeah, and doing things beyond just drinking for just what looks No, Adam Hoffman was an attorney in Waco, Texas. He was arrested in 2022 after being accused of repeatedly sexually abusing a young boy A grand jury indicted him on continuous sexual abuse of a young child which is a first degree felony that can land you in jail for 25 years to life Long story short Paxon offered a plea deal Down to two misdemeanors that originally proposed giving Hoffman just one day in jail the judge lengthened the sentence to get to that 60-day period that he's bragging about there, but it's not a job well done, sir No, certainly not and it's just one of the many problems Kent Paxing was caught on camera stealing in a thousand dollar pen That's one of my favorite videos. I mean his his his corruption and his crookedness is comical and it it's just a very bad look for Republicans one they Had to get tied up in the runoff and so they had to expend their resources there Which they're very bitter about Kornin says he's not going to fundraise for Paxon given his character and of course the establishment Republicans wanted Kornin to pull through because he had that fundraising apparatus already in place now Elon Musk is quietly spending a lot on Paxon behalf And I wish that the Democrats would highlight that because as we saw in that Wisconsin Judicial race like early on it was the earliest rebuke of Trump and Musk himself When he was central Democrats like really really we're galvanized against him So I wish that they would highlight a little bit more how much behind the scene support Elon Musk is giving to this fellow criminal Everyone Elon was on the stage in Wisconsin with like the packers cheesehead thing on yeah, I do I do I do also Jordan left sucks So we want to talk about quarterbacks at suck. We can do a whole list. We could do we could do that I mean, I do think that Matt LaFlaur doesn't have a ton Drake May does suck and I'm so done with the These paths fans getting in my mentions and saying that he doesn't but anyway. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry. My heart. All right Tough off season for you guys. We'll talk football at the end. Yeah, all the listeners are like Another race we're watching closely is the Ohio Center race former Senator Sherry Brown is running strong against John Husted or who stood? I never remember. Yeah, um, this new ad from Sherry's campaign caught my attention. Let's watch Listen to this shit people every impoverty. You're just not very they're not very experienced navigating the real world right that I remember talking to one young lady who Said well, I don't really know how money works at a grocery store because she grew up and has lived all of her adult life Using snap cards to buy groceries and so you literally have to teach people how to budget Fuck that. I'm sure Brown and I approve this message Now that's an ad that is an ad and I love that pointing to the condescension of guys like Husted Which also JD Vance is super emblematic of which you know obviously applicable to the Ohio race there Using kind of tropes about poor people that the Republican party had previously basically reserved for black people And applying them also to poor white people in Appalachia. That's what the whole like implication of that book that everyone was falling about from JD Vance was and I couldn't stand it at the time And now we're seeing yeah, it's like this rugged individualism and blaming of the conditions of poverty on the people there And people are sick of that they understand that we're being robbed blind and so no one wants to hear Blame for their own condition when we all know why we're in this situation right now with untold levels of income and wealth inequality That surpassed the gilded age at this point. Yeah, they all think Atlas shrugged was nonfiction and look they're just great men Who had success because they have these great intellects and they're all funding people like JD Vance. JD Vance is entirely a Creature of Peter Teals imagination who's like invented this senator who is now a vice-president But yeah, I love that just going after Not just the bad policies but the condescension to talk that way about working people in this economy in this country When your dumb ass president is the reason gas prices are through the roof. It's just that that that's devastating Yeah, it is and I like that that's what they're leaning into and just a tiding with Talleriko You know Talleriko is running a campaign that I would say he is moderating But he's not caving on any of the core issues that are strengths for Democrats this cycle which Include what what was in that shared brown ad which are is the economy really and the billionaire class and targeting them He's continuously Talleriko made that at the forefront of his campaign and hasn't moderated in the ways that you know Sometimes I was fearful that he would on that very issue. That's a strength for Democrats And they shouldn't be afraid of running against the oligarchy because that's where the national movies right now agreed to lean in. Let's talk about Michigan. Abdul-Assad is battling to defeat the former czar of the deep state, Mike Rogers. I saw Abdul-Assad try a couple weeks ago. I saw him in LA on Monday. I don't know if he's gonna win, but the guy is like, he is one of the best speakers we have in the party period. His stump speech is so good. It's funny. It's lighty talks about his bio. He talks about the issues and the stakes, but like, it's just really hopeful and optimistic and like it was great to watch. He seems to have thoroughly won over one TV host in a way that is surprising. Let's watch this clip. - Now, Abdul has a legitimate reason to be targeting these Maha voters. He's actually a doctor. - Yeah, he's an MD. He's not a proctocene physician, but yeah. - Oh, there's a doctorate in St. Louis. - Bobby Kennedy is a nothing. So, he's confirmed us that, but I'm saying like on the scale of going to medical school and getting through that, he's a zero. - Yeah, but he's even in better shape than Abdul. - And he wears jeans to work out like all real men. - I bet he could put up more weight than Abdul. - You like this talk. (laughing) - Does Jesse Waters want to fuck Abdul? What is happening to the 10 times he's done this? - I genuinely think that there are a bunch of conservatives who have not dealt with an aggressive style, progressive leftist that is not gonna back down and is not gonna cave on the issues. And when you rhetorically punch someone in the face who is on the right, that is when they start to respect you. And I think we're seeing that was Or on Mamdani and the way that Trump is responding to him too. - Speaking of love affairs. - Exactly. And I think that like when you're a fascist or you're a far right individual or you're a right wing or what have you, the only thing that they respect is strength. And so, this is no longer the squishy neo liberals that are gonna cower and cave on all the framing. You know, he's gonna fight back and that like that is what I think Waters is attracted to there for lack of a better description. - He likes those buys, he likes the tries, shoulders, the traps. The Trump Mamdani thing is so funny because I was talking to a journalist who's like a close Trump watcher who's like, mark my words, Trump is a type, he's gonna like Zoron 'cause he's good looking and he's got Riz. And I'm sure enough, they come out of that meeting the first one at the White House and we all were like kind of blown away like what just happened there. And then I talked to people who've been in the room with them since and I think Trump like leads with how good looking are you comment like every time. - Yeah, well, I mean, we now know that he is a closeted and chaotic evil bisexual. We're learning all about this and the more that his dementia sets in, the more that he is fixated on men's looks. I mean, did you see that lie that he said about how these strong firefighters carried him out on 9/11, that's a new one? - Yeah. - Bro, that was like something you watched on the internet and dreamed about or something. That's not. - I think she's Amy Klobuchar with a Minnesota state fair getting out of this. - I mean, truly, beefy men. - The Trump administration really is like a box of chocolates you never know which hypodermic needle you're going to bite into. - Step on. - Yeah, also, yes you waters. Okay, RFK Junior is not in better shape than a duel. I'm like the amount of peptides and injections and all of this stuff that these guys are taking. Right, I don't know enough about it but this can't be healthy. It's completely unsupervised and this man is in his 70s. There's no reason he should look that way and be that shade. - And yeah, he looks like a football used in a playoff game in the 1980s. He's like a weird, very tan, very wild leather. - Catchers, yes. - Catchers, a really old catcher. - Ty Cobbs, Glove from the South of Maple Lagam. But you know, I don't know what they're taking. I assume it's TRT, it's testosterone replacement. I get made fun of my friend for saying this. I really don't know what a peptide is. Like I live in LA, people talk about peptides all around me. I genuinely don't know what they are. I think they get shipped over for China and you just inject them into yourself. But like why? - I don't either. I mean, there is, it really is incredible as there's this war on gender-affirming care for trans kids that you have this entire class of Republican man that feels that they are not sufficiently masculine and not producing their own tea. And you have guys like Max Miller who is taking testosterone in his 30s. And when you start to take it, that means you have to continuously be hooked on it because it doesn't naturally get replaced anymore. And so-- - We know what happens then. - Exactly right, we do. And they don't want to know what happens then. But then why start taking it now? That's my question. But you know, all of the Maha health stuff is about giving people this false sense of agency over their health via supplements or extra medicinal treatments and things like that without actually addressing the root causes of why people feel alienated from their health care, which is cost. - Totally, it's cost. And also I have a friend who tracks a lot of the Maha influencers or sort of health influencers that got pulled into Maha and they are so disillusioned because they really thought Trump was going to ban certain pesticides and chemicals and whatever else. And he is just completely abandon them and let them down and walked away from the real things in that agenda because of course he does corporate bidding. - Right, I had a really interesting conversation with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez about that and she is specifically targeting that cohort as well. I asked her what she thinks are the biggest kind of pressure points or ways to fracture the Trump coalition and that was one of the answers that she gave because she says they view their fight as largely non-political. They just want their food to be healthy. And so like that is a way to actually, you can address that anxiety in a way that meets the moment with facts, but you can't be merely mouthed about it. It has to be on the basis of universal healthcare and addressing it in that way because snake oil salesman will come in and charlatans and fill that void and they are disillusioned as you say. So there's an opportunity there and Democrats have a strength on the issue of healthcare. They just have to unite around a message. - A message in a policy that actually delivers for people, I know. I mean, you've been talking about Medicare for all for a very long time. Did you talk to AOC when she was doing the series of Instagram videos around freezing her eggs? Was that when that- - It was before, it was beforehand. It was probably a month before that. - It's really just interesting that she decided to do that. I mean, it's like my family's been through that process. I've seen it up close. That it was cool that she was willing to kind of let us be a part of it because it's painful and it sucks. - Yeah. - Knowing about that is fun. - Right. I mean, I'm perhaps my wasp sensibilities. Like I couldn't put myself out there like that. - It's not a million years. - I'm too repressed, but I'm impressed that she did it. And I will say that I went to like a wedding with a bunch of people who are not political at all. And they just like moms and women in their 30s and 40s came up to me and were like, I love that she's doing that. It's so cool. So there's a real audience for it that she's tapped into. My algorithm's just like politics and sports, but she knows what she's doing. - She knows what she's doing. - 90s rap. - Yeah. - Yeah, there's sometimes every once in a while my new England sensibilities will let me talk about a sliver of my personal life. And you'll be spread. If you're vulnerable, how often people will be like, oh, it's nice to hear about that process. - Right. - You feel less alone. - Right. Vulnerability. (laughing) Gross. - Wasps. 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Four out of five employers who post on Zip Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/cricut. That's ziprecruiter.com/cricut. Zip Recruiter, meet your match on Zip Recruiter. - All right. Let's end by talking about the pitch battle between the majority report and the bulwark. Your co-host Sam Cedar did a, had a comment the other day where he suggested that Sarah Longwell over the bulwark actually wanted a duel else I had. It's created this back and forth that is all over my Twitter algorithm. I've tapped in a little bit, put not read all of it. So I just wanna get your sense of where Sam's coming from. You don't have to speak for him obviously. - Sure. - I know you guys have been talking about this in sort of, it feels like the 2016 primary will never leave us. And maybe this is like a legacy of that. But I don't know, what do you think? - Well, I mean, in 2016, Sarah Longwell was a Republican, a log cabin Republican. And so it was-- - It should anti-Trump, right? - Yeah. - I mean, but I think that, you know, Sam's been in the progressive left-wing media space for decades at this point and has been principled in what he stands for. You know, I've only been in this industry for around, I guess, 10 years at this point. I would say similarly. - The last 10 years has been a lifetime. - It's been that it hasn't. - Don't only that. - Yeah, well, I came right out of college into this so I know nothing else actually. - Yeah, same. - Yeah, it's a, we're freaks like that. But, you know, I think they are doing a lot of good work. I think Tim Miller even challenged Sarah Longwell a little bit in the conversation that we were referencing about Hassan Piker, which is like, why are we continuing to fixate on this? Why are we continuing to talk about this? Because in the primary, there were moderate to centrist Democrats that were more than happy to demonize Hassan as a proxy to go after Abdul Al-Sahed. But now that we're in the general election, my question is, why continue? the focus on Hassan Piker voters don't seem to care and there's this this weirdness about like you know she will say we shouldn't be centering Hassan Piker when no one was until these centris and republicans started to and so I think like when a lot of your commentary is focused on saying Hassan is anti woman Hassan is pro Hamas or whatever she said or even saying something like she would prefer Ted Cruz to Zoraan Mamdani I think that it's natural to question if this former republican is more partial to a republican in that senate race than the democrat so I hear some of that like I can't speak for Sarah I mean I know like I talked to her enough to know that she really really wants democrats to win I think she's running campaign ads for a duel in Michigan and her organization they have like republican voters against Trump has been running at this whole cycle yeah so like I I don't I don't think it's fair to say she doesn't want to do the way I'm positive she does I think she wanted someone else in the primary she was honest about that and then has has come around since well I don't care about the the frankly I don't care about her intentions that much I care what the output is and I think that the continuous focus on Hassan has been it in it they're creating it as an issue for Abdullah Sayed and it's manifesting in that way and I think that it's fair to have a critique of that which similar did in that debate and now he's saying that we're being unfair about that we were just kind of aligned with his own criticisms in their conversation so look at the the Hassan discourses went on forever we have defended Hassan on the show we've had him on our shows he is a right to his own opinion I do it's also think like Hassan is also perpetuated the conversation about Hassan by doing a million interviews right so he's been forced to because no one seems forced to do anything like he he's been defined he's been attacked by Republicans and picked up in demagogue in a way that I think is unfair to him that is fundamentally dishonest and that is unbelievably frustrating for him personally but also like then you do a long interview with Axios of course they're going to ask ridiculous click baby questions or like pull shit out of context and get clipped right and it's going to be frustrating and it's going to create another round of conversation about Hassan and Abdul that is like unhelpful to Abdul so I think like political pundits are going to have a conversation about kind of what's in the news and they're going to have opinions on it one way or the other and like I get the I get the feeling of frustration and unfairness about the like stupidity of the focus on what's Hassan said versus like the Iran war for example but like we're you and I are doing it right now we're talking about it right yeah well I mean I think like the the there I think Hassan was forced into a response this has been a very pretty like unprecedented focus on a private citizen who's a streamer in California because the the money the establishment wanted to make Zoran Mamdani the boogie man but it turns out that your president's in love with him the president's in love with him and that's undercutting the republicans ability to demonize him and so they are looking for another frankly Muslim person this is like rank Islamophobia that the republicans are running on to define additionally dsa is an existential threat to those same people that are going after Hassan so dsa is fairly you know democratized there isn't one particular figurehead that they feel they can define and the ones that are are dsa members like a oc and Zoran Mamdani are very popular with the base so they've tried to make Hassan in my view consciously into a boogie man based on a lot of like racist attacks and so I think it's incumbent on anybody that wants to get democrats elected not to feed into that narrative and you know the what does that means that mean you have to defend everything Hassan says because I defended Hassan I defended the democrats should go on a show I think he hates women maybe not like I don't know everything Sarah has said I'm just saying like there's also policy areas where I think Hassan is wrong or he said things that I profoundly disagree with like the like the idea of the Middle East would be safer if Iran had a nuclear weapon I just think that's profoundly wrong and I would agree with him on that just because it would disincentivize Israel from expanding and attacking Iran if Iran got a nuke the Saudis get a nuke the Emirati's a get a nuke I'm 14 nuclearization so like that's why I just think that that logic is wrong so I'm just think like what I'm getting at is we're all like your friends with Hassan I'm friends with Hassan I don't want to see him attacked unfairly by republicans or democrats I get the frustration around the whole conversation but also when centrist shit lives say things that are dumb and annoying like we'll make fun of them you wouldn't say I'm going to make fun of them right so it's like there's not like reciprocity on this ceasefire that I see out there well I I think in my view the if we want to go back to 2016 who are the true people that want to get democrats elected I know that you do even when we have disagreements like I what I love about our conversations is that we both want republicans to lose more than anything and I think in 2016 a lot of Bernie supporters were unfairly tagged as wanting Trump to win and it gave centrist an argument something to offer the base when they weren't really offering as much politically or policy wise to say were the ones that wanted to feed Trump were the ones that can defeat Trump and once I think the voter base started to see that perhaps leftists are a little bit more committed committed to defeating Donald Trump than some of these centrist who like what was the reaction ones are on mom Donnie one that that race Jill Brand went out and said this incredibly racist thing about him never apology I mean she apologized never endorsed him if I'm remembering Schumer didn't endorse him until after and Jeffries had to be a drag kicking in and screaming and then Sarah Longwell said that she'd prefer Ted Cruz she was kids or on mom Donnie she kind of kidding I I mean but she's come around and I hear you look doesn't even identify as a democrat so it's fair to say like if you're fixating and he on Republican talking points and parroting them and saying them over and over again like would would you prefer for the Republican to win in this instance I I don't think that's an unfair question I think it's total like look it I think all of us are a lot of our opinions they can like people dislike people in the primary it's like once there's a candidate we all got to get on board you know and I you and I both been on the winning side and losing side of these conversations I'm in this case in Michigan both of us backed up dual in the primary and our pumps and frankly it makes me even more nervous about the election right because you want to be right right we're deeply invested and we care profoundly I think that Sarah and Tim and all those guys like they set up the bulwark and a bunch of other organizations because they they want to defeat Trump and Trump is them they've spent tens of millions of dollars in service of that I don't doubt their sincerity there I think everyone when you're a candidate if a dual were to lose would there be a bunch of people saying we told you so absolutely in the same way that you know when Hillary Clinton lost in 2016 there are a bunch of people on the left saying I told you so about Bernie and they had a point I mean well I also but there's a structural thing that I is not also being talked enough about which is that there's a consultant class of Democrat that's it's essentially threatened I think by campaigns like I do also I didn't imagine Nixon and like long well has done consulting like I mean you don't get these big commissions on big media buys whether it's digital or TV if you're a door knocking focus people powered campaign in the same way and that is the underlying impetus in a lot of some of these like criticisms I'm not going to say them but but you know I watch CNN and I see like a so-called Democrat criticizing these campaigns and they're they're a pundit and you look it up and it's like oh they're a consultant they're going after these left wing campaigns and they don't like them because this is not the kind of campaign that would enrich them and it would make them less relevant within the party and so I wish there was a little bit more transparency about people's financial investments in certain kinds of campaigning and I just that those kinds of campaigns have also been ineffective that's part of the the frustration here is that there's an over representation of the disillusioned republican in the democratic party media ecosystem that is not really translating to the every to every day life it's not representative of the electorate and so I think that there can be a it's a well-funded operation in many ways to maintain a certain center of gravity within the democratic party that is I think counterproductive if we're trying to win and that's that's my feeling about it but I'm happy to have like an ideological debate about it and and again this was more about Longwell and then also near a tanden near a tanden well kind of got thrown into this and she's relentless so I've been talking here in like a long time I'm not going to speak for against her I do sometimes that there are people who are Democrats or democratic activists who literally seem to wake up and do nothing but tweet about us on all day every day and it like it's like I feel like you'd be happier if you just didn't do that but then whether their actions say that that to me demonstrates that she would prefer to use republican attacks against the Democrat then uplift the Democrat I can't speak for her I find it to be a crazy way of the time it's just my take on it I will say on the Schumer piece it's like I've been very hard on Schumer in this conversation on the show generally his leadership style his recruitment I feel like they really stepped in it in Michigan because Haley Stevens was just not like the candidate for the moment and the duel was great and they spent so much against the duel and then lost I think Maine was a bit of a wash in the end we were obviously like more excited about Platner and that turned out to be a huge vetting failure and the pro-sumer people had a point. If you look at North Carolina, I think Schumer deserves credit for getting Roy Cooper in there. If you look at Ohio, Sherry Brown, obviously, he's a great candidate. So there's been some wins and losses. I feel like I personally probably don't give Schumer like the flowers he deserves for some of that recruiting, in part because I was so pissed about Michigan. - Yeah, I mean, rising tide and for all of the issues in Platner, as soon as that credible accusation came out, I mean, he's got to drop out. But the infrastructure still remains. And that in Maine, in a way that it wouldn't have, Janet Mills, come on, I don't-- - She didn't even seem to want to write. - Right, exactly. And so there's still that volunteer base that is working on behalf of Trojax, and that I think is encouraging. But, yeah, no, it's like, my viewpoint here is that the party's a big tent shore, and if you want to help get Democrats elected, I'm on board. If you're as enthusiastic about Angie Nixon, then I'll stay at this, I am, I'm on board. But to tie Schumer to this, the never Trump Republican and gearing the party towards suburban Republicans who are disaffected has like really materially damaged our democracy. The Democrats have narrowed their coalition and did so under Schumer's leadership since 2016 in such a way that we lost some of those low propensity voters that went to Trump in 2024 that we didn't see coming. And my contention, as you know, has always been that a focus on economic populism and taxing billionaires and no new wars, as Abdul says, and re-focusing on your community and putting those resources there, that that is a message that can win people over. And I am wary of the overrepresentation of like the more conservative never Trump Republicans that still seemingly, one, I think they're strategies in effective and two, there still is not much of a reckoning about like, why did you become a Democrat? What were you okay with about the Republican party prior to that? Was it all the tax cuts for the rich? Was it the Iraq war that you were in favor of? Was it, or was Trump so rude? Like, I mean, being a log cabin Republican, that you have to be a dot in the world Republican and then just turning around and lecturing the democratic base about who's electable to me is a little bit rich. I think, you know, everyone gets to decide what they want to believe in, you know, whatever. Like, I'll fight with you, but ultimately, I think people can just choose their political affiliations. I think the legislative agenda you laid out, I believe in wholeheartedly is the right path for Democrats. I do think we as Democrats need to just more publicly account for the fact that we were way wrong on immigration. The country absolutely disagreed with our views. They believe that Joe Biden let the border get crazy and out of control. And that drove a shitload of voters to Republicans. And that's just an example of where like, just pure economic populism isn't going to solve it. And we're seeing similar stuff in like Germany, by the way. We're like, the far right and the far left are doing well, in part because of this demagoguing of immigration. So there's just other elements that are just not like quite as clear cut as the kind of 2016 burning on a popular agenda that I'm like behind. You know, I get what you're saying. And it's not as simple as like, you know, just what I would advocate for, which is actually having a message on immigration and not pivoting to the right. Like what would have been more impactful for Kamala Harris, for example, would have been to stake out a message that actually addressed immigration and wasn't just like, I prosecute transnational criminal organizations and I will be just as hawkish. When, if that is your issue, you're already going to go for the real thing. Or just be like, Joe sucked on this, you want to fix it. Well, she could have, she should have distanced herself from that. Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of things that went poorly, but the campaign, her campaign was at, when she was polling best, was prior to the convention before she did the moderating thing that a lot of these more like centrist Republican light types advocated for. The campaigning with Liz Cheney happened after that. And that's when she started falling apart in the polls. I feel like the Liz Cheney piece is the most overanalyzed thick. Like I don't, I think Liz Cheney's politics and policies and votes are terrible, but I think the idea of like, doing like one or two events with her or seeing if you can pull back some moderate Republicans, like there's nothing wrong with that. I actually really, I do disagree, because I think it's under-disgust how the name Cheney associated Kamala Harris with a really, really already existing weakness that was not picked up on by the political class, which is the Wormongering. Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney. I mean, and people just go, oh, Cheney. Oh, and this is the administration that is helping commit genocide in Gaza right now. And Trump is saying no new wars. I mean, he lied, he campaigned on no new wars, and I'm going to fix the economy. And he started the worst war and destroyed the economy. And that is an immense vulnerability, but he lied. And because they knew that there was an appetite for a different perspective on that. And she kind of refused to do that and compounded an already existing weakness for her, which was the lack of daylight with Biden on foreign policy and made it seem like, oh, this is just a part of the very establishment that got us into the last war that we hated. That's fair, that's fair. Did we solve it? No, I don't think so. But it's interesting. It's fun to like, I love debate and discourse and all that kind of stuff. So I hope no one takes it super personally. Don't clip this. Hassan, don't clip this, you know what I mean? You know I like you. We text like, I think you're great. We just disagree on some shit. Sam, don't fucking yell at me. Come on, let's talk. He absolutely won't yell at you. But he is also like me a sicko and this kind of thing. And I think, and we've talked about this before, running away from tough conversations on the left. Like the right is at each other's throats constantly and it hasn't hurt them at all, electorally. People are our star for honest discussion and an actual hashing out of how we're going to represent them. And so I'm happy to have that. Look at a dualist campaign. Exactly. A dualist leaning into every tough conversation. He will have the hard conversation with you about Gaza. He'll go on raging moderates with Tarlov and Proph G and just have a 45 minute disagreement about whether there's a genocide in Gaza. And like good for him, have that conversation. Yeah, I really couldn't agree more. Go on fight with Jesse Waters. Can we try to bang after him? Well, I mean, he might slash your tires first to make sure that he can't leave. People should look up how he met his recent wife. It's a weird story. It is not charming. A Fox News employee who he let the tires air out of her tires if she would have to go home with him. And he tells us that if this is charming. Yeah. As a woman that sends a chill down my spine. My wife would be like, I hate you. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a close to Ryan Grimm. People can also look that if they want. They threw down my buddy. Emma, great to see you. This was very fun. Let's do this again soon. Absolutely. Next time in New York. Yes. Absolutely. [BLANK_AUDIO]