Emma Neville’s Journey to Strength and Community

Welcome to the Owning Your Menopause podcast. With me, Kate Roham, menopause fitness coach, author of the best-selling book Owning Your Menopause, Vita Karma Stronger in 30 Days and founder of the Owning Your Menopause app. Navigating this live stage can seem daunting and almost impossible for many women, but I want to help you reframe how you see this chapter. In each episode, my guests will share one thing you might be able to implement so you can start thriving through menopause and beyond. This podcast will help you see that you aren't alone and there is always hope and support. Welcome to today's episode of Owning Your Menopause. I'm really excited to be talking to today's guest who is a complete trailblazer in the world of menopause. She is someone who is transforming the conversation from silence and stigma into power and possibility and is a passionate advocate for women in midlife, known for honest storytelling, empowering content and a strong community she's built around her shared experience. Through her platform, she has become a trusted voice offering support, inspiration and a reminder that we're not meant to go through this chapter alone. Whether she's speaking about her own personal journey or lifting others up, she's here to remind us that menopause can be a time of reconnection, strength and growth. I am so excited to be welcoming Emma Neville to the podcast today. I'm excited and a little bit nervous, but yeah. Don't be nervous. I think it's funny, isn't it, because we or you, I've seen you talk, I've seen you festivals and clips at festivals and I know that confidence for so many women navigating midlife is something that takes a huge hit and actually, you know, speaking from my own experience, I'm still terrified when I go and do talks or when I sit on panels, but I think it's very much something that we do to help others see that it's okay to have lost that confidence. It's okay to be nervous. You can still go out there and tell your story. Yeah, definitely. I always say go back to my wife and my wife is kind of like if a pregnant woman in that day and somebody goes and says, you know, I've gone home and I've spoken to my husband about how I feel or being to see my boss. I'm going to go and see the doctor and think, right, my nerves and everything has been all worth it. Yeah, definitely true that and you know, I do identify with that. You do lose your confidence within this time. Parts of me, I do remember, you know, I didn't know parts of me through this early stages of it and that some days you think, well, I ever get that back. But yeah, I do see it now as a growth and I kind of call it my wise woman years where I feel like I know myself better than any time and stage of my life. And that really excites me actually and you know, it's time that it is an awakening really, you know, it can bring us purpose, belonging and our authority back and I feel that that's what stage I'm at now with this really and that's why I'm here to advocate for the younger woman having an early menopause being diagnosed with POI. It was so important that I told my story because it is a midlife phase. Yes, but it can happen at many different ages as we're, you know, hearing. Yeah, I think that's a great place to start and I love that wise woman years. Thanks for sharing that. I might steal it. Could you give us your, I guess, you know, if listeners don't know what was your story coming into menopause and so that we can get Emma's backstory? Yeah, so when I started, when I was training to become a counsellor, he was doing my studies. I had a huge portfolio to get through and a hundred client hours to do, to pass and it was in classroom and then COVID came along and I was part of this journey. So for me, it was learning all different new platforms, you know, Google teams, meets all these things. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm such an in the room person. I am a real visual learner. So for me, I was thinking, I'm not going to get through this at all. Why I say that is because my brain fog, which I didn't, it was 12 at the time. I just felt really foggy and my memory was really lapsing and I was thinking how am I ever going to get to the end of this study? How will I get there? I don't know. And I just had to shrink down my kind of day into having 20 minutes per person thinking right, come away from it and go back to it. Now thanks to this story with the brain fog, this was my most severe symptom really for me. That period had stopped, but I've not yet acknowledged that. They'd been coming up to like that 12th period with the odd just spotting, that was all that was really there. But I just put that down to again, stress and just, you know, hearing people say, oh, you can, you know, make your periods delayed and things like that. So the signs were kind of all there, but I just wasn't. I think this new phase of life, I've been in education for three years. It was kind of a new platform to me. And then lockdown came with that, you know, for me, I didn't enjoy it at all. My school was great, but, you know, just all those sort of things that I did into a day, you know, your husband, I didn't want all those other things in use during just like wow. And then this, this fog and just trying to get through. So it was, yeah, basically to the story goes that I just thought, I don't feel right. I was experiencing quite a lot of low mood dips that they would start, okay, and I just dip off within an hour or two. And I think nothing's really happened like what's changed. So I went to see my doctor and I got a great relationship with my doctor and we ran some blood tests and they came to normal, which are now looking, no, looking into blood. Bloods can go, I could go today at 12 and I could go tomorrow at 12 and they can come back. So I've spread it different readings. So I just thought, I've had nothing to do with the bloody normal. This isn't normal. What are you feeling like? So I leaned into mental care. And again, long story short, I was having some, I was waiting for some gynae issues. So I decided I was going to go through like a Willman check, kind of go down and check things out. And I'd, you know, there was changes going in, as I say, but I just thought, I need to know that it made this clear. So I went down and I kind of had been advised about this, let's have a look at your ovaries, let's check things. The hystereopscopy, and that was kind of the day when everything changed. I just remember the sonographer kind of person, you know, doing it, just saying, you know, there's no eggs in your ovaries. And I just thought, gosh, what do you mean by that? And then this later, the diagnosis came from the gynecologist of the POI, but within that space. And then that day, I just thought, what does that mean for me now? Like, I'm coming up to, you know, a flotty like, so my body clock's slowing down, you know, Mother Nature's taking it's, it's on and I feel very blessed and very grateful. I've got two healthy gorgeous teenagers, but you know, there is that still little element of you where you think, well, no longer, you know, Mother Nature do its job. So it fell in a way, there was a lot of acceptance to be taken on from that a lot of emotional well-being, my symptoms, you know, I just felt like very, very emotional and very emotional person anyway, but that was just off the scale at the start. And I just really thought, gosh, you know, I need to understand what this means. I was going to say, yeah, what did you know, I suppose, at that moment, when had you had perimenopause, menopause even been on your radar? No, so kind of was in that perimenopausal phase from, I do believe now looking 38, because I remember enjoying 37 and I remember a few changes from 38 onwards. And obviously for me with the POI comes 40, so it's like one in 140 will get this diagnosis. I just thought I need to know, like menopause, I had friends who were at this phase of life, but they were at the, you know, the average 50 plus age of this happening. And I thought, well, I've got two girls, like I need to use imperative that I find out for them for their journeys. And I just thought, as a woman, why do I not know why, why am I talking about menopause, you know? So it was something that was not really on my radar. Again, spoke with my mum. We speak five to six times a day, sometimes, I'll be on and I'll be on a call, but we'd never had this discussion. And I just thought, I've never been here. So it was really interesting and I went to the gynae and he obviously explained to me what the best, you know, process was for me now to navigate this. And he just was like, you know, you're so low, I'll never forget the figure of 39. He just, he's like, haunts me that figure. And I actually thought some days I was practicing, but I didn't know how some days I was functioning really. But he just said, you know, we need to get you on HRT. This can be now for the next, you know, we didn't really discuss a lot, probably for the next 10 years of my life till I reach that 51 UK average, I will be on this. And for me personally, I'm not so, I hear it's for everybody, but it's been a lifeline for me. And within three months, I remember going to six weeks and thinking, and then definitely that three month period of starting the process, I just felt like Pats and me were coming back. And yeah, it was, it was, yeah, it was quite crazy to think that I'd looked at this prescription that was there. And again, for somebody who touched wood, you know, has had to clean bill of blood, they've never been on any meds. It was like a prescription that I had to pick up and get. And there was a lot of acceptance for me as well for me. Thanks for sharing that. Do you know what? I feel you gave me goosebumps because I think it is that just the sort of grief that you talk about. I think this is the conversation that is so important, because I think so many women, if they are having menopause at the right time as it were, it's not medical, it's not surgical, it's not POI, it's not premature, forget that for some women, there can be a grief attached to it because it is in essence kind of this like what's next. And I guess, and if you don't mind talking about it, I guess what I would love to ask is when you came back from that appointment and you spoke to Gary, you spoke to your girls, I'm assuming, I don't know what age they were, what was that conversation like? Because I remember getting diagnosed with menopause, and actually I was only 42. And I remember thinking, my husband's just going to think I'm washed up. Like I think there's that element of kind of because there were no images of strong women like there are now. It felt really scary kind of going, I'm in perimenopause and thinking that it's game over. What was your, yeah, what was your sort of situation? We'd gone skiing and that's when the guy and he ran me back with the, because I remember him saying, when you speak, when he said, the words were you seriously menopausal? And then he goes, and I thought, what do you mean? Like, and I remember thinking, I'm always skiing and what if I fall now? And like I have a really bad accident. I think one man I had gone kind of, and I came off that call, you know, completely remember saying, and I don't really like using this word because it's not nice, but I remember saying to Gary, see, I'm not a psycho. I remember saying that because I just felt like it was, yeah, it's quite like, it takes me back to that moment. But it was just like, I'm not, I've not gone crazy, not this envisaging all this and feeling all these things. It is, it's real life happening to me. So it was a real moment of turning point of, gosh, I need to understand me more now. I need to prioritize my health, my well-being. And yeah, I needed to look in. And as I say, I kind of feel my body was giving me all the symptoms. But I just feel there was so much analogy to my age, I wasn't ready. Yeah. Do you know that, that, that hit, I felt that with you because I, I've sort of packed my bags, you know, there were times because I think we've probably gone through this at similar stages because mine was a COVID's peri-menopause too. And like you said, all the meals you're cooking and, you know, everything everyone does just sort of really intensely annoys you and it's chaotic and it's crazy yet you feel so alone. And I think that was one of my scariest things. And one of the things I really hate women talking about and we're going to come on to talking about what you've obviously gone on and done. But when you talk about loneliness and that kind of isolation that you feel, people always assume that isolation and loneliness is something that happens when you're on your own. I actually think that isolation and loneliness is harder when you're surrounded by people because you begin to think, why do I feel so unhappy when I've got all these people that I love and love me around me and you don't know why you're feeling that. Like it's the weirdest thing to kind of comprehend. You know, there were so many different layers. I was, my senses were so highted and I just felt like you say, yeah, like, you know, I'm a being a nice person and I know I'm a nice, really kind, loving person. But there was days where you just thought, you know, I'd start the day, okay, in the morning, I'd get up and then it'd be that, you know, we've got to get in school time. I've got anything ready and I'd be a voice, and I'd be screaming, we need to leave the house and then I'd get in the car and I'd drug the girls and I'd think, I've just ruined their day, I've ruined their morning and I'd cry and I'd sit in the car and I'd think, that's awful, you awful woman. You've just ruined their day. And I could wait to go back and move up because I just felt that complete guilt. Yeah, it's there. Yeah. Oh Emma, do you know what? I want to hug you like we're so far away. I, I, I'm feeling every, every ounce of that. Like it's, it's, it's horrible. And actually I'm going to come on because I want to know, you know, what was that turning point that made you realise you needed something to change? And like, how did you go about that? Because you've talked about obviously seeing your GP as well and HRT and I also want to come on to lifestyle changes, but, which you talk about too. But, but let's talk about what was Emma's moment where she was like, right, you know what, I've, I've gone through this. This shouldn't happen. I've, I'm going to use my voice, talk me through what you've created because it is incredible. It was really kind of, I think, speaking with friends who I remember like they get in my HRT and I'd sat with it for a good eight weeks thinking, oh, I'm not sure about this. It was just the word menopause. I was, you know, so unaware. So I started researching and I think there's some great platforms, as we know, and I started looking up doctors on Instagram and things. I've followed a few of those and bought some books. And then I decided that I just thought, oh, I've become a little bit menopause mad and everything I seem to speak about. So I did a talk with about 25 friends when I actually asked my, at the time, my supervisor for counselling to come along. You just stand there inside and just cause she'd, she'd been on the journey. She was on the patches and things you've got. I was saying, and I was like, will you just sit with me while I just try and just, it's just a conversation. I had to do that conversation. Well, friends were just coming up saying, why have you not told us any of this? Like, cause I am a real private person. When they were like, we didn't know you were so bad. And I was like, well, you know, kind of just got on with things as such. And I didn't want to bring anyone down and everything. And then I thought, gosh, that's been huge. And then they were saying, like a few of them. I'm going to, that's resonating. I'm going to go speak to my doctor. And then I just thought, right, I'm going to look into this. And I just literally did fall across a coaching certificate online. I dealt Johnson and I thought, that sounds interesting. And I have a bit of safety in numbers personally, when I do courses, again, this fear of judgement. So I remember asking how many were on it. And she said 14 max. And I thought, you could do that. And again, it was online. We're still in COVID. She's in Scotland anyway. And I enrolled and registered and I just think that was one of the best things where I felt I'd met the tribe, I'd felt so hard and validated in that group. And we'd have a lesson that would drop every week from the endocrine system. We just don't nutrition as yourself. You know, it's a massive topic and we're no experts in that. But just things that we should be eating and helpful things and stuff like that. And it was kind of like, wow. And it felt like I was probably one of the younger ones on there. But I fell or danced them like, oh, I didn't even know I'm on stage because you get this prescription. We didn't know there was like different brands of crutches. And some are saying, oh, the Everolds were giving me ruches. And I'm saying, that's me. And I was thinking, oh, so this one I can choose. And I got a little bit excited. And I was thinking, really, to tell you about this in this arena. And I just, yeah, it was just one of the best things. And it was three months. And, you know, it was quite intense. And I just thought, well, the body is incredible. I didn't remember a skill that is like talking about indigo-assisted science and things. But I was like, my body is powerful. This is amazing. What it does when just learning that, you know, these children cells are all over our body. And I thought, gosh, I need to support this. This is, yeah, this is huge. Yeah. And do you know what? I think I think that you've kind of hit the nail on the head with that for women navigating this life stage is understanding actually what's happening to our bodies, because I think that there can be this life stage. So many, we blame ourselves for so much. You know, we think, like you said, with your situation, you think that it's you. And until you actually understand that this is a normal transition and these hormonal shifts and these physiological changes that are happening are out of your control. But you can do something about them, obviously, if you take hold. But like you say, it's getting access to that information. So that's obviously what's led you further, you know, having to do the coaching. I did the coaching. And then I thought, OK, and then I heard it was like menopause away and as they was coming up and I thought, I'm going to, I'm going to go. I'm like, you know, I started to think about things. And I thought, well, I knew my name already and kind of thought this is me. And I don't know, it's been this a lot, but I love my name ever. And me is backwards. So I knew I was going to do something to have my name in it. And then it just felt so relevant that actually, this is me now. This is who I am. And as I say, from being so private, I press go on the 18th of October last year. And I tried showing me what I've done because I just thought it wasn't even a month me. I wasn't bothered if I got two followers. There was nothing about numbers for me. I'm not that person. It was just the overwhelm of people sharing. And as a counsellor as well, I felt and I still do. And I feel so answerable to these women who are sharing their lives with me, which is such a beautiful place in a way to, you know, own that and to think. And I just feel so proud of the community that I've created there. That, you know, when you see some of the six to eight lines explaining their journey, and you think, wow, and I respond to every one of those comments, it is just me doing it. And I think I feel like if I've had a point and I'm not, I'm like, oh, I must go on now and I flat time slot to do that. And I think it's because it's within me. And I am a little bit of a rescuer at heart. I do know that through my counselling journey, but, you know, I'm quite proud of it really in a way. And yeah, I just think it was I became that 40 plus woman who might be at this phase and just thought, you know, the amount of time that people said to me too young. And I just wanted to get them and say, please listen to me. I'm not too young. Yeah. What are you talking about? I think that, you know, I think that is amazing. And I think it's great that you've used, you know, you're using your voice and you're doing that. How would a husband approach a wife if he had picked up on something? You know, because I can imagine if it was sort of my husband, I'd ever come up and go, maybe a prime menopausal. I'd probably give him a bit of a, you know, right hook. So that's sort of the one case scenario. And I both we could talk about that in both ways. And then also in the workplace again. And I think it's always funny because whenever I've been asked this question, it's all about how do you approach your line manager if you're having symptoms? But actually reversing that, how does a line manager perhaps approach an employee? Like you're saying, if we can educate more within the workplace, it's a really delicate conversation to have. What would what would your advice be? You know, in the whole life, I think it is just having a little bit of a language around saying, you know, I don't understand it, but I'm here for you. You know, is it anything I can do to help or do you want me to just go away and leave? You know, just having those normalised conversations and you being real and saying, you know, as that day is going on, I know if you wake up in shitty mood where you just don't want to be on top. No, just owning it and saying, you know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to be the best thing today, but what I'm giving is my best. And that's all I can give. And sometimes it's just letting them people know around you that, you know, that is you today and that could change tomorrow and hopefully it will. But it's not always the way and, you know, I think it is just learning together just to trying to to become that it's it's a team, you know, it's a teamwork, it's support. And I always think if it was if you've got children, if it was your child's problem, you'd be like all over it and you'd be both there. Like, we need to look at this and we need to find out. So why shouldn't we come together on on this phase as well? And within the workplace, I think it is again, I have this conundrum of clause, which I like to say, and it's prepared by yourselves with your colleagues and ask them if there's, you know, have these open conversations, non-judgmental, you know, what's going on for you? How can I help and ask the questions that A is the ask is, you know, as say, making them feel empowered within that space and that workplace and come together as a collaborative and the you is understand. Try your best to understand. So for yourself as a boss, try and do some research, join some forums. There's so many businesses doing online things, you know, or, you know, having a look into into it yourselves. And S is support. You've got to show support person, even though you might not even understand yourself, but I've got that appointment together and literally saying that you're going to work on this, we're not going to leave it another month. Let's, you know, book a date in the diary to see how you're feeling in, you know, bi-monthly or however way your work is. Try to understand it the best way that you can and the E is evaluate. So evaluate it and, like you say, don't leave it for them to think, oh, I've got to chase up and I'm going to feel inadequate because I'm having another really bad month, a date in that diary together. And so we're going to have this follow up and, you know, I am leaning into it. And it's just really normal, really, just to have that kind of framework to say, right, this is how we're going to structure. You're really important to me because, you know, wanting to send women to leave in work and that is just horrendous. It's like, and a fair of kind of this judgment of like, you know, you know, you're capable and have been able for saying you've worked in your workplace 20 years, you know, you can do that job like the back of your hand. But then when your hormones are, you know, having these rollercoaster rides, it's like, I don't feel like I can do this anymore. But then that fear of somebody younger than you coming along, who he feels better in that comparison, you like, and you can understand why they're leaving because they just don't feel heard. They don't feel heard properly within themselves. They don't know parts of them and they're not feeling supported and heard within the space. So it really is a collaboration of coming together if you can. I really like that. I think that's amazing advice. And I think for anyone listening, you know, really take that on board. And I guess kind of surmising what you said is to not be afraid to ask for help. And to, you know, again, menopause is a natural, a natural transition that's going to happen to everybody. So to not to not worry. And I think that kind of brings me on to sort of, I guess, in a sort of full circle. And as I always do, I like going on lots of different places. But that sort of fear of asking for help, I think also translates to that home environment where, again, as midlife women, we often hit this transitional stage and we are without doubt at the bottom of the pile. And the reason I sort of that looped into that asking for help is because, you know, when you have got your partner and we are angry at maybe, you know, having to, I don't know, empty another dishwasher again and put on another load of washing and then do the washing. And then I think, you know, we're both mums here, the emotional baggage that we have, the children. And I'm not saying that my husband isn't supportive. And I know that yours is very supportive too. But we, as parents, we do cater for everybody else's needs. And I think that so many women don't realize that they've hit this life stage because they've been so busy caring for everybody else and putting their needs last and not asking for help. That's where menopause hits, hits really hard. And I think as much as I have these conversations and, you know, we want to try and change the narrative, it's very difficult to when you have always been that the homemaker and the caregiver. And as you've said, the person that always wants to heal and make everything OK. It's very hard to pull yourself up and put yourself somewhere on that list of to-dos. I completely agree there. And I think we are that sandwich generation. I love that phrase because we really are that big point of, you know, the problem most people come to thought is, you know, at the peak of their careers. And, you know, they're at that stage of like they thrive in and everything. And then this transition is happening to you. So it's about that education piece about informing yourself and, you know, don't let it hit like I did without any unawares of it. You know, there's so many things we can try and do to prep in that time. And, you know, there's loads of tests and things that can be done now. And I know, again, it's right and it's I don't feel, you know, it's down private hands for it. But there are things that we can kind of try and look at to, you know, navigate this a little bit better within our systems. But I think for me, it was kind of like coming up to that, you know, fortitude where I did believe I would be thriving. And I do believe now, but it's like that processing of it. It's hard because it it takes it's time on your text on your energy, you know, emotional, physical levels. But instead of compared myself and done some research and, you know, read a few more books or listen to some of what cancer we do now. There's so much that's actually overwhelming that we can do. It's it's really good to get yourself now. So I say to any 30 year old, I know you might not think it's now, but please just try and do a little bit. You know, do you understand your cycles? Do you understand, you know, what is going on with your body? Are you tracking things? You know, and just any changes are changed. And I used to think, you know, I probably have some really silly questions over time, but no question is silly. And you run short and, you know, we've got really limited time within this. You know, always seek medical advice, but we've got such limited time within the appointment time that sometimes it's not long enough. And we, you know, we're hearing people having to go back and back. But we all sort of need to take responsibility of ourselves and our bodies. And I think there's many that I've met who just don't even know when the last period was. And I'm like, what maybe because I was so regular and that's why I was aware. But it's just it's something that we need to know. I graduated, you're right. But all the young girls, they track, they have these apps and they're tracking their periods, aren't they? And I kind of think there's that stage, obviously, you want to have a baby. So you're like, come on, let's go now's the right time, you know, when it's all, you know, and then we've sort of feel we've got, we've had our babies. And then that's it, right? We don't then track. And I think that that is the thing is that if we, like you say, have more conversations around menopause and keep women tracking, there's going to be less, you know, they're going to understand they're going to have a pattern. Just kind of on that, did you make any different lifestyle? What were your lifestyle changes that you might have made when you did realize? Because obviously, you know, I don't stop banging on about lifting weights and eating protein. And, you know, for most women, perhaps giving up alcohol or, you know, cutting bag. Because that's that advice we're not given. Like, and I feel that that's where we really need to drive this this message. And obviously, I actually have osteopenia in both my hips. So therefore, weightlifting is non-negotiable. And obviously, the research behind HRT in terms of bone health, I will continue with my HRT, but I'm not going to rely on that solely as my, you know, my need. What lifestyle changes have you made? So I think, like you say, you do. I did have to take a step back and look for me. I was a quick hit girl, sweat it out, you know, and locked down. I think I was over exercising. So just trying to get through the day. I was doing three classes a day. And that's when I think sometimes got stronger than I think. I don't know. I was doing it basically. But looking down at my skin and thinking, is that my leg as much as your skin? I mean, it's again, everything's going a bit right here. So I've had to change my regime. But I think it is that we need to, you know, move my lifestyle and, you know, exercise and diet, you know, there's so many different things, you know, social connections, connecting with people. We've lost that so much community. Are we going out and having conversations with people? We're all just texting and emailing and going via. But I'm such a pick up the phone. If I'm in the car and like, I ring you, I want to speak to you. I want to hear your voice. I don't know if it was attainable and we're all busy, but I get to check. Yeah, exercise was one. So now it's my reforma pilates. I absolutely adore it. It's my happy place. I call it. I'd like to get more younger in. But I think for me, it's my pilates. I absolutely love that. So it was slowing down that kind of crazy, even though the cardiovascular is so important when he was doing more walking. For that kind of kind of like, you know, just felt like, you know, putting some hills in there every now and then and just building my strength of that with that. And like you say, lifting weights, it's a love that we're in a strong word. Strong is like brilliant now. It's like, yes. And I think that's what it was. So sometimes I suppose it's lifting that bit heavy away, but not doing as many reps, but just challenging yourself to lift a little bit heavier. And I definitely can see a difference. I feel like my body shapes change. I've never felt as strong as I do as now, which is like kind of a different transition. And it's an acceptance piece. But I'm like, but I'm doing this for my 80 year old self that hopefully he's got over here then. But, you know, what about these, you know, really bad fractures and falls? You know, I've looked into my mum's had a few lately. And I think I wonder if my mum was given HST. Would hers be different? It does make you think and you start thinking things through differently. So I think for that generation, it's get strong now. The 30 plus, like you say, get get yourselves lifting. Then those bands and just standing and just, you know, doing so many reps a day. This like you can doesn't have to be within the gym environment. Does it as you show with everything you do? Yeah, it could just be at home with a couple of few bits and we can make it happen. And then for me, again, it was. I think it was taking some breaks out of the day when I was feeling this overload and not feeling guilty about that and just thinking you can't be in screening anymore. I'm going to go and make myself a herbal tea or a cup of tea or something. And just, you know, just having five minutes to yourself. I'd love to get my meditation in. And I yeah, I'm not going to say that I do that. But I would love to try and, you know, I've got a couple of apps and leaning every now and then. But I think they say even just I find with the polarity of my birth works. I'm really concentrating on that. So both work has been really key into the training for me. And that's to feel like I can breathe. And so I've like learned new techniques through that, which has made me feel stronger within this, you know, within this space. And if you can, I'm setting a nighttime routine. But again, it's not nearly as possible. You know, my girls are out training night at night, quite a few weeks. Next week, sorry. And I'm not always coming in and I'm still like by and alert. So if you can set the environment and just find out like a candle, make it dark, have your magnesium bath if you can. You know, magnesium has been my non-negotiable magnesium glycinate yet. Literally, you know, before bed, that is something that I've done. And it's really not going to sleep. Yeah. I love that. And I think, you know, they are such top tips. And I think it is that thing where it, you know, you've given five or six little nuggets, but it seems so overwhelming. And I think that's one of the things that I hear. I know you will a lot from women, but you know, do this, do that. It becomes very overwhelming. I loved what you said, and I'm going to sort of pick up on that, which was your body shape has changed, but you're stronger than you are. And I think that that is the kind of the key is that self-acceptance at this stage. My body shape has completely changed, but I am the strongest mentally and physically than I've ever been. I think the problem we have is the noise on social media. And I think we can be too quick. And I'm totally guilty of it, of comparing ourselves and kind of thinking, well, hang on a minute, we're all going through that. And then she looks like that and she's doing that and taking that and doing this. And it's getting that evidence based information that is correct, that is right. And social media is a very confusing place. And as I say, very overwhelming, I think, especially for women of our age, navigated menables, because we're, you know, obviously it comes up on our fees, but feel very targeted with certain ways. Obviously, you've created an amazing community where they can get the correct evidence based support. You know, like you've said, you're not in it for any gain for yourself. It is about supporting and helping those women. So I guess to women that are feeling that and they might feel overwhelmed by all the changes you've made, you didn't make them overnight. You made them slowly and you're proofing that, putting that these things work. Yes, I have two years on now and, you know, in this big change of, you know, back in 2020, but it's been a lot when I look back at what it was. But again, I've had to accept this is, you know, my new change and I'd be able to play with it. And yeah, you do look back and I think we all do. That phase, you look back at 30 and think, oh, gosh. And that's why I always say, you know, 30 is so moving. Like, yeah, do it, do everything, shake yourself strong when eating. But I think the society is that these girls, you know, they don't want to go out drinking, you know, they're going home and getting ready to go to the gym the next day or something. They're doing challenges. It's brilliant and it really makes me happy. Again, for me, alcohol was a big thing. I'm not a big drinker anyway, but red wine was my only go to. But this demeaning that I could smell it and it feels like two sips. So like red wine had to go. So it's looking at all the little elements that build up to this big change. But I did, I kind of do feel like you say there was a lot to take in because I was like, oh, gosh, I've always felt lucky that I've been, you know, quite a slight person. And I can still get into clothes, but it has to sound. But it's sometimes I'm like, well, no, this is why I'm doing this now. I want to feel strong for our future. And it's showing the girls that that, you know, exercise is really important. And they they are doing that ball all the time and fit. But it's just, I think it's as well challenging. You're selling to different things. And, you know, I'm doing a 10K in a few weeks. I haven't done them for two years, but I'm not probably going to do much training. But I'll get through it my own way. And I feel like I've achieved that just for me again. But it's it's changing everything, isn't it? And maybe taking up new hobbies for yourself. But prioritising you, it's so important, you know, looking into what this phase can be. It really can be the time to, you know, thrive for yourself. Put yourself first. We're always doing everything for everybody else. And just, you know, if you want to do that dance class, I'll take up a new hobby. Do it. Don't hold back. Yeah, there's nobody just pretend nobody's in the room with you, you know, is giving it that kind of acknowledgement that we shouldn't be silent. So we really do need to be heard. But I do think for ourselves, it's everybody's journey is so different. That's what's fascinating about it. It's the understanding of your own body and you and how your body works to get to know you. I love it. I love it. I could sit here and I could talk to you all day. I hate, you know, looking forward to meeting in real life. We might just end up talking all day. What would be? I'm going to ask one final question and then I would love you to tell people where they can find you if they don't already follow you. What would be? And I think, you know, you've made it made it very clear, which I love. But what would be the piece of information that you would give to any body? You know, I guess it's your younger self. Like, what would be the piece of advice that you would give? We really say, ridicule yourself and get awareness around everything about you and your body. It's fascinating, isn't it? And I say, the body gives us a sign that we're hungry, we feed it. So it's all happening and it's all going on. So really engage with yourself and I wish I had, but I left it never too late is it, but I wish I'd got more in not alone is really important. There's so many people that want to be there for you, listen to you and also be there for yourself. It's the most the most important, you know, leaning to yourself and be kind to yourself. I love the quote, this too shall pass. And I feel that's where I'm at now. And I'm not sat here saying, you know, everything's I say, I'm tweaking my journey. I like to use that. And with my most specialists, we say the recipe is right at the minute and all the ingredients are right. So let's stick with what we're doing. But that doesn't mean in five months time, something like that. And now I'm going to dip off. So it's kind of being really aware and being, you know, OK, with that where you're at, really, and yeah, educate. Education is key, you know, research things. Don't just take someone's opinion. Like you say, this overwhelm is so much information. It's brilliant, but it's not right for everybody. So always go and speak to your GP. And if you go to that point and you feel like, you know, you've not been heard, wants to see somebody else. I'm asking, there are my most specialists within your surgery. A bit of a postcode lottery, but there's so many great nurses who are. Training this as well. You know, excuse me, the chronologist there. Don't be afraid to ask those questions to get you supported. It really upsets me to people having to go down the private health care route. And unfortunately, you know, that's where a lot of people are going. That is sad. And I just thought that that change will will happen. But yeah, it's again, get to know you really get really engaged with yourself. And and yeah, just be be grateful for our bodies. They're bloody amazing. I know I love that. And isn't it just so funny how and I think that so many women of our demographic who are kind of going to menopause at the moment will will say that. It just takes it takes a long time to understand how amazing our bodies are. Yeah, we've done, you know, for those that have had children, we have gone through childbirth and we still don't appreciate how amazing our bodies are. And we have to head into our forties and, you know, I'm 50 next year to really go. Do you know what? This is amazing. This is a great this is a great time of life. But, you know, I'm a thank you to what you're doing. You know, the conversations you're having are amazing. The community that you have created is is brilliant. Where can people find you if they don't already follow you to get your help? Thank you. So it's lovely level. This is me on Instagram. I'm new to LinkedIn. I'm finding my feet around it. It's a bit more grown up and functional. And I'm like, can you navigate there? I'm on there and also I'm not on Facebook platform, but those are the two platforms that I like to use. And yeah, and hopefully, you know, I'm going to be doing some. Well, I'm going to do another. This is me part of this year's hopefully I'll meet someone with a lovely community. It was one of the best days of my life this year, just people connecting. That was my biggest takeaway from it. People were making friends and I was like, oh, wow, this is huge. You know, people coming along to go out the comfort zone, but they'd left with a friend who they could chat to. And I was like, we really have got to find community. And like you say, even there's so many platforms where you can join onto these groups and just, you know, look in your local area, go into your doctors and see if there's anything happening. Ask the questions, but really don't feel alone. It can be a really, really lonely time, but we're all in this together. And as women, I think for me, there's nothing better than women supporting women. That just fills my cup all day long. Oh, and that's that. I love it. Thank you so, so much for your time and I can't wait to meet you in real life. Definitely. I look forward to having a real cup of tea. You can learn more about owning your menopause by going to the website, owningyourmenopause.com or following Kate on Instagram at KateRH underscore fitness. Don't forget to use OYM podcast 50, which will get you a whopping 50% off your first three months of the owning your menopause app for all new subscribers. If you have enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. 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