Emma McDonald: How I Smashed Aviation’s Boys Club

We're taking it up to also speeds of 350 kilometers an hour, so we're taking speed, high G. Pretty much kind of tearing the sky apart if you want to put it that way. I felt like I was sitting in my higher self that I didn't know I could experience in the midst of pure chaos. And he comes straight through the front of the engine or the aeroplane. And that's where the training comes in. I can't flinch. I've got to fight all the human reflexes to flinch away from this bird. I'm Slebomasticala. After over 25 years of broadcasting, the world of action sports I have seen an over abundance of wrist-taking. But wrist has many faces. Doesn't just live on the mountain or in the half pipe. It keeps the million over the sky. Land. The sea. And a thousand places in between. Embracing wrist is like signing a contract with yourself. You have to put a piece of view off to the side and lay it all on the line in order to do what you love. And in this season, I'll be traveling the world to meet some of the most exceptional people on earth who have signed that very contract. People who have built a personal relationship with wrist, and body, and performance at the highest level. Welcome to the Team Ignition Show. Welcome friends and neighbors around the world to another episode of the Team Ignition Show. My name is Slebomasticala. And on today's show, we have a very special guest. If you find yourself in the country of Australia, and you just randomly look up in the sky, and you see a plane performing feats of absolute magnificence, flipping, and falling backwards, and doing all sorts of things that make you go, "Oh my God!" There was a very strong chance that the person who was piloting that aircraft is the woman to my left. And if all those incredible feats that she performs in the sky were not enough, here's an interesting fact. Ten percent of total pilots on this earth are women. Across the globe. And literally, the only woman who flies in the air race X is this woman. Emma McDonald. Thanks, Suleva. Good to be here. Was that a strong enough intro for you? It was very strong, thank you. I love a person to know is modest, but also is like, "Yeah, that's pretty much me." Watching you fly, getting to fly with you, for those who are listening, and have not seen the show, we got to spend an incredible time together out in Ragland, Queensland, where you took me up in the sky and pushed me to my limits to the point where I almost had to vomit into a bag. But you didn't. No, but I was knocking on the door. You're knocking on the door. For sure. You held on to it, though. For any of you who missed that, you can see it on our YouTube. On the team ignition YouTube, it is worth it. Trust me. But what you do with an airplane is really mind-blowing. So for the audience, maybe to set a little bit of context as an aerobatic racing pilot, one of a very small crew on the planet, what is taking place in the sky? What's happening to the plane and to your body when hundreds of thousands of people at a their show are looking up and being like, "Oh my gosh!" What's happening? There's a whole lot of things that are happening at that point. Let's start with the plane. The plane. So the plane, it's fully unlimited and aerobatic aeroplane. So it's capable of pretty much anything you can create in the sky. It's capable of doing that. And we're taking it to its absolute limits. It's capable of 10 G's, which is 10 times your body weight. So we're taking it up to also speeds of 350 kilometers an hour. So we're taking speed, high G. Pretty much tearing the sky apart if you want to put it that way. Taring the sky apart, but the most important part being that the plane will not terrify. No, it doesn't terrify. What is it about this plane that allows it to perform that way? Just the inner design. So it's got a symmetrical wing. So it allows it to fly upside down just as well as it does upright. It's like really strong made of carbon fiber. Crème Oli piping inside. We've got three-and-a-horse power up the front. Let's go. Yeah. Now you're speaking my language. Pretty cool. And 700 kilos. So the powder weight ratio is significant. So it allows us to do amazing maneuvers with this machine. So basically an F1 car with wings in the sky. Pretty much. Yeah. It's where the two-seat version. Okay. This is what we kind of refer to it as the truck, compared to the race plane that we fly. It's a lot more maneuverable, a lot faster, a lot lighter. But this one's still very capable of doing some amazing things. So that's the plane in pretty much indestructible in the sky. What's happening to your body while it's experiencing all those things, especially when you talk about the Gs? I can tell you what was happening to my body when you took me through to six and eight Gs. It felt like my body was being reformed into like new shapes that it didn't know. I know that when I see the video, my face is going to look horrible. It's going to give you a view into the future. What's going to be like when you're older? Basically, 90-year-old me wasn't in your plane yesterday. But what's happening to your body that you're fighting against to do the things that you're doing, to tell the plane what to do? Yeah. So when it's pulling G, I'm pulling G2. So I'm weighing 10 times my body weight. So being a 60 kilos, where it's 600 kilos at that point. So my body and my skeleton is feeling all of those forces. So I'm having to fight against that G force to stop myself from passing out. That's a lot of training involved to stop and get current with G. So there's a lot of workup involved to go behind the scenes to be able to handle that G. Same with the fitness as well. We've got to be quite fit to do it. But not to aerobically fit. Like I was explaining to you, you can't be too fit or I'll end up reducing your G tolerance. And then you're fighting even harder against the G. So you've got to find that happy medium with your fitness to make sure you're not too fit. But yeah, so we're dealing with that. We're also quite hot in the cockpit. That canopy that's there. It's like a magnifying glass. So adding summertime Australia under that canopy is super hot out there. So we're fighting the heat, the G force. Then you got the speed. We're traveling with the aircraft. So we're not feeling the speed so much. But when we got the positive G being really heavy with the 10 Gs, we're then also fighting the negative Gs. We pulled up out of the seats and then we got blood rushing up into our head. So we've got to learn to relax through those moments. So there's a lot of moments there where I'm actually quite relaxed going through manoeuvres because you have to be. There should be a split screen between what you were experiencing and what I was experiencing. Like side by side. I guess, smile and you're going to smile. Yes, because people will be like, they're not in there. There's no way that they're in the same place or experiencing the same thing. Because I'm especially when you get into the negative G. You're like, "Am I about to exit the plane and leave into another universe?" What it felt like in my body. And so when you say that you've got to do like a bunch of training, obviously the way training. But how do you train for the Gs? Is it just flight? Flight, yeah. It's the biggest thing. Obviously having a fit body helps and being strong and that's out of things. But to actually train for the G, you just got to get yourself exposed to it. And you just got to build your way into the G. So you're starting at 4G, working to 5 to 6 to 7 to 8. And then 12, which we do in the racetrack. 12. 12. So here I am thinking that I was tough because you took me into the 8G club. Which literally I did feel like I was knocking on the door passing out. I'm like, "I'm not passed out, but this is definitely what the pre-pass out feels like." But at least that's the first time you're going up and experiencing 8G. Right. So if you work towards that, like, your body can't handle it. It's just like any training for any exercise. You're just going to build the tolerance for it. That's awesome. And you've never passed out or been passed out? Never passed out, no. Ever. No. No. If I've passed out, it's not a good day. So we want to see all the colors. Oh, we want to see all the colors. All the colors. Just like in the world. We want to see all the colors. We'll do a G-warm. So we will get a bit of gray in the G-warm. That'll help us avoid that in the actual display itself or in the race. So we'll go out and actually intentionally get some gray. Go knock on the door. Go knock on the door without straining. So we'll go up into a hole at height. And we pull into a 4G turn without any strain at all. And then continue the pull through until you get some form of gray without any strain. And once you start getting a slight tinge of gray, then squeeze out of it. Then you squeeze in the gray away to your back to normal. And that's the G-warm that you've now, you're now ready to handle the high G. It's a workout. It's a workout, yeah. How does someone like yourself end up deciding, you know what? I want to flip airplanes in the sky and go as fast as possible. That's my calling. Yeah, I think it's always been there for me. So everything I had done being all my careers, my sporting careers as well as a G-warm. gymnasts, pole fitness, and then flying, and flying with my dad. There's always been an element of acrobatics or aerobatics involved in my life. So, I've always sort of had that within me, but it wasn't until we went to this air show at Old Station where we are here. That's when I decided I really wanted to follow that creep-off. So young ammo was a gymnast. She was flipping around. Oh, it was flipping around. Hanging out of trees, getting swung around close lines with my dad at like 18 months old. Had it even started walking yet. He told me a story. Your dad's been with us. He's been epic this week. Just seeing his pride of you at all times from afar, you just find yourself getting choked up because he just loves you beyond comprehension. But he told me a story about how he would be walking with you and having you on his shoulders. And then all of a sudden, you'd be gone because you were hanging from a tree. That was just within reach. And he turned around and be like, "Oh, there she is again." Yep. [laughter] Yeah. Did you ever have dreams of flying when you're a kid? I still have, I still have dreams. You still have dreams? Yeah, flying dreams, but you can sort of just fly. So I had this fascination with getting my feet off a grant anyway, I could. And I thought it'd be a great idea. I've seen parachuting. I can make a parachute. So I grabbed the sheet. Bed sheet. Bed sheet. My bed. And just started jumping off the back of the Miranda trying to make a parachute. [laughter] How'd that work? How'd that go? I never break a brain. [laughter] But in your mind's eye as a kid, you're probably like, "I think I got some float." Oh, I got float. Yeah, you could feel some form of float. And as a kid, you know, you don't weigh all that much, but you'd still get, yeah, it's slow. You're full a little bit. The addiction begins. And it's so up again. Your dad was an Isab Pilot, anyone else in your family? Whole family. So I got a Nana and Granddad started the trend. And then my dad was the first one of the kids of his brothers and sisters to get their license. And then all my uncles got their license, followed through with my two brothers, myself and all my cousins as well. What style of flying do they do? So majority of the marine agricultural aviation. So they're spraying crops and spreading. And my dad's been to all kinds of different careers. So flying air shows, aerobatics, corporate jets, airlines, and has his own ag company as well. And every career path you can think of in aviation, he's pretty well followed it. But you kind of started late as far as making your choice to be a pilot, like professionally. Yeah, I was actually a very late Blue World 26 when I got my license. So I started off as a diesel mechanic to start with. Diesel mechanic. Yeah. How do we go from a gymnast? And then I think you said pole fitness. Pole fitness. Let's talk about that. Error, what was the pole fitness era? So the pole fitness was sort of slightly before becoming a diesel fitter. So because everyone goes from gymnast to pole fitness to diesel mechanic, that's just a natural art. Yeah, it's a normal transition, like I said. Emma is very much outside the box. Now I can see the gymnastics fitting in nicely with the pole fitness. Yeah. And that's what drew me to pole fitness, as I've seen so much gymnastic maneuvers in the pole dancing. So I really wanted to be able to explore that, especially with the Lyra and Silks as well, which is another apparatus that was right alongside pole fitness. So they were all the same. I was just a burning man for the first time. I got to see a whole lot of silk work. Yeah, cool. So there's, yeah, world championships for pole fitness and Australian championships. And you were champion? Yeah, we did, I can't remember all the titles now, but we did quite a number of Miss pole dance Australia. We did Australian national championships. National championships. That was second in that one. And then we ended up on Australia's Got Talent as well as the pure pole angels. There was three of us out performing on stage. And that's what pole fitness on the map. Wow. Yeah. So you set off a movement, naturally. We set off a movement, yeah. It's incredible. And now who you are setting up another movement? Another movement, exactly. For women in the sky. That's amazing. Okay, so I'm trying to keep track here because your origin story is incredible. There's someone right now who's listening being like, okay, I think I need the rights of this film. How do you go from then? Australia's Got Talent, pole fitness, launching a revolution for women feeling empowered, pole fitness to like, I'm actually going to go and be a diesel mechanic now. Well, I always like to know how things worked. And I, you probably get in the vibe. I was a little misindependent a little bit. And I liked to be able to solve the problems myself. So if I broke down on the side of the road, my mentality was I wanted to be able to get myself going and not rely on my dad or the boyfriend to save me. Unlike me who has something in America we call the triple A card. It's a triple A card, yeah. When things go bad, I get on the phone. Hello, I'm alone on the side of the road. Can you help me? Please, send help. Yeah, no, I want to be a diesel. Yeah, I want to be a diesel. I can change, I can change a tire. Yeah, you can, okay. I can, yeah, good. And it sort of come from when I left school, I was very focused on flying. So that's all I wanted to do was to fly. I actually wanted to be a flying vet. I was a vet nurse while I was just left school, but I wanted to be a flying vet. I wanted to be able to travel out to the app back of Australia and rescue animals in need and fly to them from those locations. That's why I wanted to try and put that all together. But when I left school, I kind of took a different direction and got distracted by a boy at the time. Damn, boys. On behalf of all of the boys, I apologized that you were taking off course. I was taking off course a little bit. That was my decision, that's you. And I don't regret it. No, because it led me down a path where I was able to experience so many different types of jobs, careers. So I was a racehorse trainer, a vet nurse, stable hand, biohairs, babies that I did, I installed air cons for a little while as well. Like there's a lot of different things that I did to explore to find out what I wanted to do because I was sort of kind of lost my way with, you know, distracted and not, you know, fell off the bandwagon of flying and then sort of found this passion of wanting to know how things worked. I loved engines and that sort of just started and an apprenticeship at Hastings during came up and that's where I decided I might give this a go because I'll be able to learn all about different machinery. So that's when I become a decent mechanic. Hastings? Hastings, yeah. They're caterpillar dealer. Okay. So at Hastings at this apprenticeship, I'm imagining there's like, a hundred other women who are just as eager right by your side that are doing this apprenticeship. No, it was the only one in the first one. Only one. Only one. And the first one. Yeah. But when I turned up on my very first day, all our apprentices were lined up in front of all the supervisors and that's when we got to meet everybody and I had one in particular appointed at me and he said, you, you don't belong here. Right off the back. Right off the back. Yeah. You don't belong on the floor. You'll never be good enough. Day one. Day one. You're not supposed to be here and you'll never be good enough to join this royal order of men. Yeah. Straight up. And I was like, whoa, I like to start with. I thought I was already in trouble. I'm like, I haven't even started working yet. I'm sorry. I've already in trouble. Yeah. You know what? You were born. That was your penance. That was my penance. But. How did you respond to that internally and outwardly? Yeah. For that point in time, that was a very pivotal point where I could have had one or two reactions. One, I could have got really upset and angry how dare he say those sorts of things. Or I could accept that, you know, I am the first female coming into a workshop. I am the first female apprentice that they've had. I'm coming into the boys yard, you know, and I'm going to show them what I'm made of. And that's exactly what I did. I stood there and I smiled and I'm like, that's okay. I got this. And yeah, went out onto the floor and worked really, really hard to the point where I ended up becoming a apprentice of the year. Then went on to running up for the Asia Pacific. I'm proud of the year as well. They actually have competitions for the best of diesel fitters out there. So that's what I did. I worked just really hard. And the same supervisor who pointed me out is actually a really good friend of mine now. And actually I apologise and said, I had you all wrong. And I hope that there's more females like you that come into the workplace and is now actually a great advocate. Look at you, just out here smashing the patriarchy. One like normal choice for you at a time. But you ended up helping to sort of expand the perception of what's possible. What's possible? And then since then we had so many other women join the workforce. At this time where you are on paper, you peaked, you know, put your feet up, continue to be a legend in these two spaces you've created. You are end up at an air show with your father here. Here, yeah. And it's just after I got my private licence. So when I decided I wanted to go flying and follow that as a new career, I remember standing out the front of the hangar in Rockhampton. I was talking to my dad and Howard who was a good friend of my dad who was a flight instructor. He used to be an navigator in the Air Force. And we were standing out the front of the hangar and we were looking out at King Air. [BLANK_AUDIO] for the Royal Flying Doctors out the front of the hangar. And I was talking to dad going, I really want to fly. I want to change careers and follow a career path. I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but I want to fly. That's all I'm going to do. - Not casual fly. - Not casual fly. - I want to fly fly. - I want to fly fly. And I just, I want to do it for a job, I just don't know what it looks like yet. And Howard, who was there, he's like, "Well, I've just started working at the Eric club, "come down and we'll get you signed up and get you started." And obviously dad telling me, it's expensive. Have you got enough finance behind you to do this? Like, you know what it costs. - I like dad being like, "I love you, but not that much." (laughing) - Well, he's got to push you to do it. If you don't do it yourself, you're not going to respect what you get. Like if you get a given to you, it doesn't mean as much. And that's where my dad's really good at that, is he pushes you to do it yourself. - And also testing to see how much do you actually really want this, or is this my daughter who I'm love, who I love being bored yet again with her amazing life. - Yeah. - And just wanting a new challenge. - It's just for fun. - Just for fun. - Just for fun. So he's kind of just a real guy. Do you really want to do this? Yeah, like, and with standing in front of that king, the king was my favorite aeroplane at the time. And I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I want to fly one of those aeroplanes one day. And yeah, worked it all out, sort of spoke to them, how do we sort of map this out to get my license? And then just start executing the private license and got away all the way through to receiving that license. And I think it was a week later, the old station airshow was on. So as I was, why don't you get a group of friends together and hire a plane and go down to the old station and go camp out over the weekend? I got a plane full of people and we flew down here just after I got my license. And we camped underneath the wing of the aeroplane the whole weekend. It is an amazing experience coming out to the old station airshow. But it was that weekend, that's when I decided, I know where I want to take my flying. - When you go back, 'cause within that airshow, there's all different types of flying and planes that are on display. What was it about the aerobatic performance that made you have this, I sound like, sounds like probably almost a spiritual experience of calling to be like, no, there it is finally. - Yeah, and it's exactly how you just explained it. Because my dad was doing a demo in the show, he was demoing the crop dusting and the fire bombing. And we also did an engine run in the meague as well. So he brought the meague out and that's what he used to do the demos in. And I loved the meague, loved it. But when I was watching Matt Hall at the time, I was standing with my dad and he was doing this aerobatic routine, which was high energy and it had air-aic simulation in it as well. And I just was fixated on how he was flying the aeroplane at the speeds he was demonstrating air racing in a competitive world. And then also how he was dancing in the sky. And I was just like, that is amazing. I wanna do that. If I could get hold of an aeroplane like that, the creative mind had already started at that point. I wanna be able to create something new, do something creative with the aeroplane and turn it into a dance. - I wanna take what I was doing in gymnastics and on the pole and just throw it to the sky. - And throw it to the sky, yeah. - Wild. - I remember the point when I was standing there with dad and I looked at him and it was like a match just lit off in my belly. And I reckon dad would probably be able to remember the look on my face and I was just like, - Here we go again. - Yeah, he's like, at least it's not Ag. (laughs) So really. - Why would he say at least it's not Ag? - I guess he worries about it because it's a high risk career doing Ag. It's very high risk in getting the thing. - You think that he's in fatalities. - Fatalities, yeah. And accidents and that sort of thing. If flying closer to ground all day every day, dealing with power lines, trees, weather, birds, there's a lot involved with Ag. And unfortunately you do it long enough. There are things that can happen and have happened. - Do you know anyone? - A number of people. Marco Joe, passed away from an accident on take off what we suspect to be a partial engine failure with full chemical load and didn't make it over the trees and unfortunately hit the trees and spun in, which ended his life. But it was something that our family obviously rocked our family quite a lot. Touched a lot of people and really I think humbled everyone that little bit more and really cemented into us that it can happen to anybody. No matter how experienced you are, unfortunately sometimes there's just things that you can't get away from or you make a mistake that you don't intend. No matter how experienced you are, it doesn't make you any more immune to an accident than anybody else. Doing what we do, it's really real. It's there, the danger is there, the risk is there and we need a respecter even more than I already did. - How do you honor him now as you've chosen to continue to move forward? You easily could have walked away. - Yeah, we could have, and I think many of us in the family, that would have gone through our mind of is it worth doing what we do? Is it worth it? The ripple effects of an incident like that and how it affects people in different ways, to see that throughout the family is that's heartbreaking and we take that risk, continue to take that risk every day doing what we do and to make sure take a step back going, is it really worth the risk to put my family through that if I end up doing the same thing? But it is, I think, and I won't speak on behalf of the rest of my family, but I could probably say that if they stopped flying, my uncle Joe would probably come over and smack him over the back of the head, go, "What do you think you're doing?" That was my accident, that was me that do what lights that fire in your belly and my uncle Joe was also another advocate for what I did and he was a massive supporter of mine. So whenever I go out there, emotions are always outside the cockpit, but he's always sitting on my shoulder. He's always there. He's with you. Yeah, and so Steph, my cousin as well. So, and my uncle John, about many who fly with me and they're in the sky and that's sort of my way of dedicating to them. That's powerful. It makes me think and you tell me if it's too invasive of a question, but how do you care for yourself mentally from a self-care standpoint in order to show up and do what you do? Life is life-ing on all of us in a very difficult world. I have days when I show up and I don't even know where I'm at, but I can fake it. You're not in a profession where you can fake it. So, how do you make sure that you're sharp enough to be in that cockpit? There's certainly an element of compartmentalization, so you're going to be able to compartmentalize even for the small stuff. But you've also got to be able to take the time to check yourself and have that time away from doing this sort of stuff to work through whatever it is you need to work through. I will not get in the cockpit if my head's not right. What is it, I think, that people wonder that pushes you beyond the clear and present danger to be able to see the opportunity to perform at a high level and do so with joy without fear being clear and present during that space? I think there's a lot to do with the passion and the love for what they do. Obviously, we know the risks that are involved in doing what we do every day, but it's how you're managing those risks. That's important. My family are bred in aviation, so it's in their blood. If we took that away from them, like I don't know who we'd be if we didn't do that. And every day, my dad, my uncles, my brothers and cousins who are working every day, they're putting the food on the table for everyone, or they're out there protecting everyone from fires that are coming through. They're working because they care about other people, and that's why they do what they do. In my mind, their hero is, yeah. - Well, I see you as a hero. out skydancing. - Yeah, I think skydancing is-- - I'm putting food on the table, but-- - You're putting food on the table. You are putting food on the table. You might be skydancing as you call it, but you are putting food on your table. And once again, without intention, you are in a space where you are one of the soul women doing the thing in what has traditionally been a boys club. And yet again, giving a whole world of women the belief and possibility seeing themselves in you to like, oh, that's a thing I can do. - Definitely, that's why I do what I do. I hope to inspire anyone, just one person in the crowd to be able to go, I have a dream, I wanna go chase that dream if she did it, I can do it. And there's the same with Paul. I taught so many women who thought negative of themselves and gave them their own self-confidence to go out there and be confident in their own skin and their own body. And actually achieved some pretty amazing things that they never thought they could do. So if I can do the same thing while flying and demonstrating the limits that you can take yourself, that's pretty much why I do it. I'm a happy girl if I've been able to do that. - Standing in the entirety of your power to an intern giving permission to others to stand in the entirety of their whole power. That's not light work. - That's all about getting the experiences, the hardest thing getting into the air shows. So being able to prove that you are good enough for you, you do have enough experience behind you to go into the air shows. It's very hard. The air shows want you to get experience, but how do you get the experience without doing the air shows? So it's really hard to get into that. That's where you've got to have mentors and over in America. Sean Tucker has been an amazing, amazing mentor of mine and given me that opportunity and that hope. You can't do that all on your own. You need people like Sean, like Kevin Elliott, who gave me the opportunity to go to the Pacific air show. He gave me my first major air show. Ron Creed, who let me perform here for the first time as well. It was a full circle moment especially here at the old station. If I hadn't been given that opportunity, I find it very hard to get into it. - How do you begin to make a name for yourself when people start buzzing, being like, have you heard about this, the Seven McDonald's out at the rock, she can get loose in a plane? - Yeah, it is really hard. There's never, you can make, I guess you could do edits and stuff like that. But my sort of way I did that, I had to get a first job flying was my first thing. So once I got my license, I had to then get my commercial license to be able to get paid to fly was the first step. And I guess this all comes down to when I was standing here with my dad going, that's what I want to do. I had to work out from that point, how am I gonna get to the air show? And there's no pathway to do it. So I had to sort of map that out. And that's when I went and had the opportunity to talk to Matt and that was because my dad lined that up for me to go, "Hey, you wanna know how to do it?" I'd go talk to him and find out how. So I went and talked to him and he gave me a list as long as my arm of different things. I got to go check off that I sort of had an idea of what I knew I needed to do, but to hear it from him, from the horse's mouth, I was like, "Okay, if he's been able to do it, then I should be able to do it." So that's where I started ticking it all off. And I got my first job flying an ag cat down in the travel possals down in Victoria. But to do that, I had to sell my studios. I had to equip my job as a diesel feeder, pack up the back of my e-u and travel down to this job. - So you sold the business? - Sold the business. - Yeah. - Basically, cashed in all your chips and invested 100% in this thing that didn't exist. - Yeah. - Super normal. - Super normal. - That is an incredible amount of self belief, like an audacious amount of self belief, especially after you've, you've, you've not just done these two other things, but you've crushed them at the highest level. Most people would be like, "Cash out, you're good." And you're like, "No, actually, I'm gonna let it all ride." - Yeah. - I literally like put all of those chips on this one thing and spin the wheel. - Yeah. There's literally what I did. - Why do you, where does that belief come from? 'Cause it's obviously something that you've had consistently. - Yeah, it's an internal belief that it's a challenge as well. I think that's what really drives me is that challenge. But I know my, what I'm capable of, I don't know how to do it, but no, I'll find a way to do it. And yeah, this is that internal belief that, that's really what I wanna do. I'll have that much passion inside there that that's it. That just keeps light in the fire. And every time you have a setback or you come up against a really hard challenge, that's what keeps driving you forward and that's what kept me going into it. Like leaving home, leaving all my friends, the long-term partner that I had that also didn't believe in what I was doing either. And sell up everything and live out of the back of your youth for six months and go to a new job that you don't even know how you're gonna do it. And it was actually some of the best flying I've done down there on my own. Around the 12th of possible, taking people flying and showing them the most amazing coastline down there. And the AgCAT is just an amazing airplane. It's a really big biplane with a radial engine on it. And it's got no canopy over the top. So you open cockpit. - What? - Yeah, open coffee. So you got the wind in your hair. - Convertible. - Yeah. It's like four bigles. - Wow. - Yeah, so we'd have all the leather helmets and everything with that. And you just fly around the 12th of apostles showcasing what it's all about doing. - And you just spread and joy. - Just spread and joy. So I picked that job because it was a stepping stone into aerobatics into joy flights. So we weren't doing aerobatic maneuvers, but it was an aircraft that not many people get the opportunity to fly. It was very unique. And that obviously was right along where I like to be. It's being unique. - And the transition to aerobatics went from joy spreading to now self-contained joy festival. - So as soon as I got the job down there, my first thing that I did was get an aerobatic rating. - Also was duality. - Duality. - Doing this to do this 'cause you had the long list. - Yeah, I had the long list. So I'm ticking things off all the way through. So I got that first job flying. So I ticked that list. I ticked that item off the list. Get the first job. Then it was, okay, we need aerobatic ratings. So I went, while I was still doing that job, went and got my aerobatic rating to get that sorted out. Got my IFR rating as well. They're all different. - What's IFR? - IFR is instrument flight rules. - Okay. - So it's a different rules of flying. So we fly under the VFR, which is visual flight rules. And IFR is a whole nother set of flight rules, we fly through cloud and weather and that sort of stuff. We can't do that in this airplane. But there's so many different things that I had to do. I had to get a turbine rating. I had to get all kinds of different things. Pressurization, everything to be able to be ready for the opportunity when it came my way. So that was investing in myself. I was putting so much financing to everything that I had. It was going into getting as many endorsements as I could so that when any opportunity arose for me to take that next step, I could do it because I had the experience there to do it. So that's why I was building on that. And that's when I had the opportunity came my way of working at Madhall Racing. - That was the breakthrough. - That was a breakthrough. Yeah, that was, I knew the next biggest step. Into getting into aerobatic experiences, to air shows and the ultimate racing. If I could get there. - Are there many people who do both race and perform at the level that you do in aerobatics? - Yeah, all the Red Bull Air Race pilots. There's not many of them though. There's, although there was had 14 race scenes at the end. But there's been many throughout history. - But presently you are one of the best in the world. - Carly won a bite at the air race. (laughs) - That's so cool. And what's the sort of difference, I know that they overlap, but I guess it's a different experience going to perform in these races than it is demoing aerobatics. - Very different. Yeah, they're completely two different disciplines. - They're both planes is what they have in common. - Yeah, planes is the thing that everybody-- - To give a little glimpse into both worlds. - Definitely, yeah. We're operating at different limits of the aeroplane. We've got race aircraft, so they're a lot faster than the aerobatic aeroplanes that we're flying. They're a lot more aggressive. They're a lot more maneuverable. Obviously we got 12G aircraft, 12N14. There's two different types of aeroplanes that fly. There's 14 for the MXS, which is just, and it's not. - Human. (laughs) - I've never had an antelope. - 14, I'm passing out. For sure. For sure. 12, I'm passing out for sure. For 14, there's no question. Just like he's done. - It hurts. That's why I'm so short. (laughs) (upbeat music) - How you doing, Richard? - How are you? - I'm really, really good. - What plan is this? - It's a big 15. - Korean. - Korean vintage, this one? - This is a triner, it's a two-seater. - I was wondering, I mean, obviously your family is a flight family, I see all of the helicopters and the planes, but what was it like when Emma came to you and said, "I don't only do I want to be in the family "way of flying, but I would like to take planes "and throw them around the sky." - Well, Emma's, she grew up with the Iving Island. She was a baby, you know, she grew up with it, so I wasn't surprised, you know, when she actually wanted to, said she wanted to do it. - What's it like for you? I watch you when she's flying. And I can feel your beaming from the inside, like every time is almost like the first time. - Well, yeah, I'm more worried, I guess. That she's gonna be okay, you know? Make sure she pulls out when she's supposed to and that's some stuff, but when she's finished, then I'm just delighted. She's just doing what she loves doing and not too many people get to do what she's doing. - Yeah. - So almost in a way, you perhaps possess more present awareness of the danger that she does. - Yeah, yeah. - She explained it like she can't really sit in any of the danger awareness when she's flying. - Yeah, that's right. You know, she's gone and done everything she can to mitigate all those dangers. And, you know, but it's still a machine. Still breaks, you know, this thing's gonna go wrong. - Yeah, she talked about that gravity and the ground or the two concerts. - Yeah, they say the runway behind you and the sky above you is the most useless thing in aviation. (laughs) - But if you had a choice as a parent, to have her do anything else, ah, I did it. (laughs) You know, I can't take that away from her, but she loves it, you know. Well, would you, you know, I wanted to enjoy life, you know, and she does. Very proud of her. That's awesome. - The stakes are so high. They have been accidents. You know, people in your own family that have had these accidents. I guess explain how you're able to sort of overcome the thing that everyone else is thinking about that you're like, I just wanna go and fly. - Your turn on game face, will pilot Emma turns on. That routine will start from the moment I wake up. And if it's an air show, the real solid routine that turns on is about 50 minutes before we get everyone. And that's going through visual observation. - Five zero. - Five zero. A quarantine time of getting yourself calm, getting your head in the zone, 'cause if you're especially at an air show, you might be out doing autographs, seeing the fans. - Come on, come on. - Come on, come on. You know, I love you. I'm gonna be you. - Checking out all the kids. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta talk to the kids 'cause they wanna know, you know, how did you do it? So it's really important that I have that time beforehand to calm down, to get your head in the game and start executing that plan and get yourself by step through each point that you're looking for on time. And then you don't have the stress of going, I'm late and that's what you're worrying about then you miss something, you might not distract yourself in properly or you leave something on the airplane that you haven't seen or you don't wanna be going into an air show or a race with that feeling. I wanna be calm, know that I've got everything done and we're on time. - Yeah, so what people are asking of you is can never be more important than what you need to ask of yourself in that moment to be able to put on the show. - Yeah. - What is the closest call that you've ever had in performance where that present had to show up for you? - We were practicing for an air show in America, getting ready for the Pacific air show and we were out there getting my low level waiver done to fly low level over in America and I was over there with Matt Hall we're performing together as a formation that's where we fly two airplanes together and we do aerobatics altogether. - So that requires? - Flying side. - Yeah. - Extreme awareness as to where each other is at all times. - Yeah, you're well together as one airplane and my job is as lead so I'm in the lead aircraft and then Matt was out of my wing and he sits about two meters off my wing tip and we do maneuvers through the sky whether that be inverted or tumbling around and doing different things. Now we were out there doing our training for the show so we just got the sack card and Sean had actually signed me off for that and we'd gone back out to the area to start training and halfway through the routine we do a inverted pass and that's where we both go inverted together and we're flying beside us, beside each other and we're about upside down. - Upside down. - Upside down at about a hundred feet off the ground and as we rolled inverted and we're flying along I seen an eagle that was sitting up in the middle of the box sitting above us and I can't do anything long as lead I can't do any flinching or moving around 'cause if I do that I can hit Matt or I can flinch him into the ground and that's what stuff. So I've got to maintain an stable platform for him. - You can't dodge. - I can't dodge the bird. - Because of Matt. - And because we're so low. So I can't do any evasive maneuver here and with that bird I seen it sitting above us and I'm like if he stays where he is, you're cool. - You're cool, but he's territorial and he tucks his wings in like Eagles do it and he dove straight down at us and I'm like we're gonna have an impact and I'll watch him come straight down. I'm like hopefully he hits the belly of the airplane is what it looked like for me. Betty didn't, he come straight through the front of the engine of the airplane and it was just a massive explosion of feathers and Matt on my wingtip he's not looking straight ahead either. He's looking straight at me. So he's got his eyes welded on me and I just turned into this like feather bomb of feathers. And at that point that's where I have to maintain that absolute focus and that's where the training comes in. I can't flinch. I've got to just go, no, we've got to take the bird and then solve the problem after that. - So there's no panic. - There's no panic. You can't panic in this situation. You've got to override that and just-- - You got to, like the anti-oh shit button. They all ship out and make that decision that this is what's got to happen. This is safer to do this than it is to try and flinch away from this bird. And so we take on the bird and that's where I've got to pop the nose to roll us upright, to signal to Matt. We're going to pop upright and that's when we call in a bot. So I can get Matt away from me and I can then now focus on my aeroplane because the next 30 seconds are crucial whether I'm about to have an engine fire because where this bird's gone, I don't know. I've smelt it straight away so I know it's in the engine. - Where you can smell like-- - You can smell burning bird. If you're hungry for KFC, that was-- (laughing) - We can laugh about it because you're clearly lived. But in the moment, you're smelling cooked bird. - Cook bird, I'm like, I know straight away. It's in the engine. - It's in the engine and that's then my mechanical brain coming in. I know where the oil cooler is in this aeroplane. It's on one side of the engine, not the other. And I don't know which side this bird's gone in. So has he taken out the oil cooler? Has he taken out a fuel line? So I'm about to run out of fuel and snuff out. Or is it about to carry out a fire? Look at how I can smell it. - So in your brain, you're going through all these different possibilities of variations of how much flight time you may or may not have left. - Yeah, so it is crucial. Get as high as you can, get Matt away to a safe space and get yourself as high as you can and monitor what's happening and be ready looking for a place to land. - And then what? And then so, but 30 seconds checking everything, everything stabilized and everything was good. So we were like, okay, I think we're going to be right to make ourselves head back for base. So I then called Matt back into the formation and at that point I got him to have a look around the aeroplane to make sure the bird hadn't taken out any other items of the aircraft that I need for land. - In the sky. - In the sky. 'Cause he's in formation, you can fly. - Yeah, so you can do a little. - Star Wars style. - Star Wars style. - Star Wars style. - So as he was having a look, I felt this bump out of the aeroplane and what was left of the bird had left the aeroplane while he's having a look. So we nearly had a two for one bird strike with him. - No, wait, 'cause then that bird could have hit him. - 'Cause the could hit him, yeah. So I mean, you know, you wouldn't really think of, but yeah, the aeroplane from where he was flying, it seemed okay, so okay, we'll head back and get the aeroplane on the ground before we have any other issues. So head straight back and we landed and texted over to the wash beta, get out and have a look. And as soon as I got out and had a look, the front of the aeroplane had just been completely smashed in. Yeah, so it was very lucky. It was about this far away from going through the canopy. So it could have come through the canopy. And if it had done that, there would have been in my face. and we could have had a very different result from that. That's crazy. Your team is called Beyond Gravity, which literally is like, I didn't understand it before, but now, on the back end of this conversation, it all makes complete sense. The power of that title relative to your existence. What do you envision Beyond Gravity being? It obviously has a powerful message, but what do you want to do with this? It's very, very clear by everything that you've done in your life, that everything you do goes beyond the moment. You realize the effect that you're able to have on people. So where do you take Beyond Gravity in the bigger picture? We've got obviously the racing. If I can compete and get as good as I can possibly be in the racing, then I've done my part of being Beyond Gravity. When it comes to the rest of the world, Beyond Gravity is showing people what is your gravity in life, identify what your gravity is, and release it and go beyond. And if I can help people with demonstrating through air shows, through racing, or even on podcasts, if there's something that you want to do and I can help you with it in that space, by telling my story, then that's what Beyond Gravity is all about. And having those supportive people around you is, that's how you do it. I can't do this on my own. I've got an amazing team around me who will help me get here today, and without them, it doesn't work altogether. You need a team effort to get to this point. Yeah, that opportunity aspect is so key. With an action sports, I've watched in skateboarding, in snowboarding, in women's big wave surfing. For years and years, as women felt like they had the skill set to go out and push themselves into the danger zone, a lot of times men thought that they were doing a good thing and being like, "We don't want you to get hurt." You can't play at this elevation. And the girls were like, "Well, how do we know?" And now, in all of those spaces and places, because a handful of men were like, "Here, let me help mentor. Let me hold the door open for you. Let me get you some experience." Now they're all performing at the highest level in these spaces. And that's simply coming down to opportunity. You come from this family going all the way back to your grandparents. This is culture of your family. What do you impact you want to have on that family legacy when it's all said and done? Just taking the aviation to another level. They've all done it to their own level and their own right. And they're all very, very skilled pilots in their own right. And they've got their own character, their own personality in the way they fly. Anyfuckin' ad, that little bit of flair on my side as well. It's just part of the legacy. If we're flying and we're airborne, the McDonald's are happy. I think that's what we call a mic drop right there. If we're flying, we're airborne. The McDonald's are happy. I'm a McDonald. It has been a real treat to spend the last few days with you here. And this conversation just further compacts that you are. You are indeed a one-of-one. Thank you very much. It has been a pleasure to take you flying and to show you what it's all about. Yeah, I'm literally never going to forget what it felt like to be inverted. Watching the sunset, waitless. There were moments of supreme peace, like sitting up above myself in the midst of that chaos, where I was like, this is about as alive as I can feel. You explain it perfectly. That's everything that I experienced up there. And to be able to share that with you and share that passion was really special. Thank you very much for watching. We've done our jobs. Now I'm asking you to do yours. Like, comment, or subscribe. Plus for bonus content you can go to teamignition.net. Yeah. Next time on the team ignition show. There's always going to be risk involved and way pushing the physical limits. Despite the danger, it's a triumph in my ability that I know that I'm capable of these things. Look at the gap. It's insane.