Emma Grede on Owning Your Ambition

You know, I love talking to people who change the game. Not just for themselves, but for everybody. And my guest today is doing exactly that. She's the genius co-founder behind Good American and Skims, the first black woman investor on Shark Tank, and one of America's richest self-made women according to Forbes. But she's also a mom of four, a champion for female founders, and someone who tells it like it is. Y'all, I'm ready to hear her drop some gyms. So let's get into it, baby. This is Kiki Palmer. No matter what we do in the car, just chilling. Couple Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life loves sex, science hovers it all. Especially the back of money, y'all, we should fall. No matter what it is, we can make it make sense. There's nothing else to do but kick it with the homies it can. So grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy. You get into the vibe that only goes with it. You know it's your business. This is Kiki. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer, yeah. Please welcome Emma Greed. Oh, look at you. No, look at you. I love these colors. It's so seven years. You look so gorgeous. Oh my gosh, thank you. I'm going to, I don't know if it's that kind of shock. I'm just going to read, adjust myself. Nobody needs that much of it. I love that the hair looks fabulous. Thank you, honey, thank you. How are you feeling today? I'm feeling glorious. You know, I'm feeling great. And you live in LA. I live here. OK, cool, yeah. Best place in the world to live. Sometimes I love me. Sometimes I want to be East Coast now. Now, today, you want to be East Coast. Today, it's probably cold. It's all get out. It's cold. It's sunny here. It's gorgeous. You can't beat the weather. You really can't. No, you can't know. OK, so let's get into this pressure. I'll pull up questions because I'm not going to get into your mind. So your zodiac sign is a Libra. Yes. Do you know your big three? I don't. I think I'm like, I'm Libra Libra and something. But I don't know. Libra Libra and East Coast. I'm a very Libra Libra. Are you close to the Virgo Cusp? Like are you September? I'm right on the Cusp, I'm September 23rd, so I'm the change over day. There's a lot of Virgo in this girl over here. OK, so you do feel some of the Virgo vibes. I feel a bit of Virgo vibes. OK, what are you most grateful for today, everything? Honestly, that's the most simple answer. But I am naturally, default, happy person. I'm like an eight. I wake up happy. I wake up very grateful. And I live in such a way right now that it's easy to be grateful. What's everything to you? You know, when I think about everything from, like, I have four kids, right? So it's like the last of the morning. I woke up this morning. Like, my little twins are potty trained, but my kid had wet herself. And she was like, Mom, I'm just so disappointed. And I was like, that's OK. Like, look, it's all right, and you strip the sheets. And even now, I'm just so aware that that age is so fleeting, and it's so precious that I don't even want that to go away. Do you know what I mean? It's like I have a 12 and a 9 and 2, 4-year-olds, and I'm fine for the bed being wet. I'm grateful for that. So when I say everything, I mean, every little thing. But I think that's part of my personality. I'm really someone who stops to smell the roses. I'm very aware at the level of privilege that is a part of my life today, because it wasn't always there. Oh my gosh. I love what you say with that, because I do think as somebody that's always working and being ambitious, that's something that I've really had to lean more into than I'm learning to lean more into, especially in my 30s, is the smelling the roses. Because it really is gratitude for oneself in a way that is so deeply required, but we can forget. You know, it's what's driving us, but then we forget it. But you're right, and also, I think when you are successful, what's interesting is you almost start to expect success. So when it comes, you're already over it, because you're onto the next thing. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's no way to live. I'm very much a liver to day person. We're not promised tomorrow. Yesterday's gone. It's like, what can you be like so in the moment and so grateful for today? So today, I'm like, I'm with Kiki. I'm with this. OK. Come on. And does your hand hurt? No, it's a rock. It's happy girl. OK, it almost blinded me with that hair moment around. I said, OK, miss girl. Well, I have to tell you, this is my third ring. You know, not the third husband, but the third ring. And we just, you know, we did up great. In the sounding bay. It is a good one, right? It's just them, just cool. Yeah, you know, OK, a relationship or friendship non-negotiable for you. I mean, truth, honesty. That's all I need. I feel like we don't sit on it enough. Like what it really means to be truthful and honest. Like, you are so, and that's the point, right? Even when it hurts. Because the thing is, when you have real friendships, like it will hurt sometimes, you need those people around you. And I actually, you know, I always joke that I don't make new friends. You know, it's like I've had the same friends, my whole life, but I rely on those people as almost like measures of where I am in my life. It's so crazy, because it's almost like they're an archive. Yes, yes. Like, I have conversations with my friends now where I'm like, did you just remind of me who I was? Like, in this one moment, I forgot I loved that. I forgot I used to say that, oh my gosh. Like, so it's really amazing when you do have those friendships over those course of those years because they remind you of sometimes, you know, the things that you forgot you said to yourself. It's so true. And I have three sisters. I'm the eldest of four girls. Oh. Those girls will remind you every time. And you're the oldest. Wow, yeah. I'm the middle, the middle. OK, what's the question you wish you were asked more in interviews, reality about the work? I relate deeply to this. And I feel like sometimes it's not as interesting as people want it to be, or it's not as cute. It's not as cute, you know? It's not as cute. And I don't think people realize how much time I spend in disappointment or in just like sadness, you know? It's like I am somebody that works incredibly hard and a lot of stuff doesn't work out. But that's just not the stuff you post. That's not the stuff most people see. And so I feel like the reality and what I've tried to do in this book start with yourself is really talk about the mistakes and the things that don't work and what happens when that stuff happens. I think it's really important to also say that when you are a person that's as successful as yourself because people have to understand that these aren't the things that can stop you. You actually have to know that that's a part of the process. That's a part of trial and error. That's like you have to learn these things. And so when people don't hear it, I think they assume sometimes that it's just been an easy ride or even if they don't tell themselves it's been an easy ride, they just assume that everything was consistent or linear. A hundred percent. No, and you're so right. And actually I take that one step further to say that the things that don't work out are so necessary because what they do is they inform your next move. And I think it's so unfortunate that for women, we take our mistakes like so to heart. Because for most guys, they're like, and they move on to the next thing. And for a woman, it's like, oh my God, I did this terrible thing. It's like, no, you didn't. A terrible thing happened. Now you move it to the side and you keep going. It's not you. It's just the thing. My friend said one of her mentors one time told her, don't tell me about what you succeeded at. Tell me about what you failed at. And I thought it was so interesting because it's a way to explore like how you move forward, how what you do. Like if you're going to want somebody on your team, you are going to want to know how they're going to deal when things go left. Not just when they go right. So I love that. Who was someone you've met that made you feel a starstruck? I mean Oprah. Only when did you guys meet? Like what happened? OK, so I have been in love with Oprah since a child, right? I used to like make the lunches for my little sisters, take them to school. I'd be so exhausted that I come back home. Really, I need to watch Oprah. So I put it on the tape. And I feel like I learned so much from Oprah. So I'm waiting to meet her forever and ever and ever. And we know a lot of people. So I'm at the Diane Rumpfustenberg Oscar luncheon, right? And everyone's there. And I see Gail. I know Gail a little bit. And I'm like, Gail, I don't even say hello. I'm like, Gail, you're going to introduce me to Oprah. And then she does. And you know, she does like a Gail call down the lawn. She's like, oh, bra. So then she's like, walking towards me. It's so dramatic. This is how I remember it. She's like, walking towards me. And I have nothing to say. Nothing. I leave my sunglasses on. I get really overcome. I sweat through my dress. And I just like, you know, do this. And you know, she's used to that. That she's used to people. And she's like, and she's so sweet. And she's holding my hand. And she's like, oh, you know, I'm not going to feel her like. And nothing to say. That was me with a Barack Obama. And then President Barack Obama, President Barack Obama, I don't know what even we're to say even now. We call him President Barack Obama. You know, President Barack Obama, period. We love him. And when I met him, girl, I literally was like, I understand that. I understand that. I understand that. Well, I'm on the board of the Obama Foundation. So I have to have my words about it. Oh, did you have to play right now? No, I can't. I just, you know, partial drop in. So I have to have my words together when, you know. She said, I got my wits about me with my colleague. No. [LAUGHTER] Yo, what? I'm Ali. I'm still like that. So what's a mantra you live by and why? You said, make a decision and move on. Yeah. It's really decisive. Which is not actually very liberating. Right. No, and I feel like I've had to train myself to do that. And I feel like so much of the work I do is constantly being in training for the type of person that you want to be. I don't want to be indecisive. And I want to waste time. And so it's like, I do things. I'm decisive. I lead from my gut most of the time. But I also make a lot of mistakes. But I don't let them stifle me. You know, it's like the mistake happens. I'm moving on. Yeah, that's so important to me with life. Sometimes we hold on to so much shame. We just say, you know, we can't even move forward today. Let it go. Let it go. Let's talk about you growing up, because you just mentioned it a little briefly, but you kind of grew up raising your three sisters. I know your mom was a single mom working at Morgan Stanley. So she was busy trying to make sure she brings that bread. And you were there to support your sisters. Tell me. Take me back to those early days. You know, it's so funny when you say it like that, because we have an interest in family dynamic. It's like, my mom's the dad. I'm the mom. kids together, and I always laugh at that because we have a very interesting dynamic between me and my mum and then between me and the sisters, but you know what, it's like when you're little, you don't know any better. And for me, there was no question that am I going to help my mum. My mum was like, "Whoever the stairs, make the dinner and get your kids, like your kids, get your sisters to school." And so I did what my mum told me to do. There wasn't like, "I never felt sorry for myself. I never felt disadvantaged." It was like, "This is what you need to do to get through the day." And I think what it gave me is this tremendous sense of, "A, I can do stuff. You know, I could make a roast dinner for seven people by the time I was 12 years old. You know, I was accomplished. I could do stuff." But also, I am, I knew the value of everything. I didn't take anything for granted. So if you gave me five pounds, you know, five dollars, I knew that that was worth something. And so there was no like, you know, flitting around. I was like, "Okay, now what do I do with this?" Because that for me was changing my circumstance. And I would buy magazines, fashion magazines, and I would dream a little bit. But everything was worth something. You know, there was nothing kind of given to me. And so even today, like everything I have, I attribute value to it. And I actually think that makes me very good at my job. I mean, you've had a job since you were 12 years old. Something newspapers working in delis. What are some of the skills from those early days that you find yourself still leaning on as a CEO? I mean, the money I'm hearing you talk a lot about economics. Like, you know, that's incredible. I mean, I really love it. And I feel like as women, we need to talk a lot more about money. But to answer your question, I think there's a couple. The first one is like this idea of the power of the mornings. When you have a paper out, you get up at like 4.30 AM. And you see all of these people, these early morning workers. And I was just not accustomed to that. You know, we're a late night family. We're not an early family. And so to me, I was like, what are they all doing? What are those jobs? What are the things that they are like up so early for? And it was almost like, I didn't know it then, but it was almost like a meditation. You know, you'd be so quiet. You'd have your little coffee and I'd go and deliver my papers. And it taught me that there's like this sort of magical time that now as a mum of four, I'm like, that five to six AM. I'm like, that's me. It's fabulous. The best. The best. And every woman and every person should kind of like understand like how you set up your day. And I feel like the morning is the time that I say, here's what's important. These are the things that need to get done. And then the other thing that having all of these little jobs taught me was like, how being excellent at something can make such a difference. So when you work in a deli, you've got to learn to slice that ham, like real thin, the palm of ham, and you've got to learn to make an amazing sandwich. And people would notice that. They'd wait for me. You know, they'd be like, I want to hurt to make my sandwich. Okay. Right. And so, but for me, I was just like, oh, but it taught me like the one percent rule that if you just make like a pair of jeans, one percent better in the waistband, one percent better in the stretchability, one percent better in the hardware, one percent better in the wash, you have an incredible product. So I think that that's testament to the way that I do business. I try to make every little thing better. And by the time you've done 10 things better, you're better than everyone else. Oh my gosh. I love that. And that's like, I feel like I'm very much always going the extra mile. And a lot of times I used to feel like guilty about that. Like am I, should I be doing less? But as the years have gone with my career, I've realized that that one percent, as you so put it, it really does make a difference. What time do you get up in the morning now? Would you kind of say maybe like 5 a.m. But what time do you go to bed? Okay. So I'll get up at 5. I'm like in the bed at 10 15. I've never been a good sleeper. So I'm like probably not asleep until like 11, maybe 11 30. But I don't need much. I need the rest. Like to me, it's like that time of like no one speaking to me. Yeah. Like that's the part. You have a particular wind down routine that you do or anything that helps you get in the mood. I've been really into this is simple, right? So I've been into just the, I'm ask. Oh my gosh. That helps me so much for some reason. Like I really do feel like I'm really aged. You know what I'm doing all this stuff in the movies. Like I'm up now. I'm early bird catches the worm. I'm like in the bed by night. I'm really aged. Girl, I'm really, you don't want to see me. I do hold the mask. I got the infrared mask. I got the head mask or the eye mask. I do all the things. But you know, it's like I like all that stuff. But you know, I like more than anything. I like my husband next to me. I like a sleepy T. And I want to chat. You know, like I, that's what I like. Like I want to like that. I just like, I think it's so cool because I know your husband. He's also incredibly, you know, in business. Yes. Yes. I mean, it's very okay. She's like, look at the ring. I wasn't always like that. But this is rare. I don't want to say this is rare, right? But I think sometimes we don't often see the business woman that has it all together, have her stuff going on. And then also a partner. How did you guys meet? Like how did this love happen? And were you both always very that, you know, that ambitious? Yeah. I mean, I think it's fair to say that we were both very ambitious. My husband was my first investor. So let's do that part first. So I had a company and we worked together. And when I decided to go out on my own, I went to him and he's business partner for investment. And that was the first time I'd ever raise money. And I had to go to a few other places as well. I went to some clients and I did a little friend and family round. But I have been in business with my husband for longer than he's been my husband. And so we had that work piece figured out, like two ambitious people with a similar idea of life doing something that we really believed in. And then I married him. And I think that, you know, he's the type of person that has a lot of respect for my ambition. He's the type of person that, you know, he's Swedish. And in Sweden, they have a very matriarchal kind of society. Yeah, I mean, it's like, that's how it is. I mean, you might do. I mean, because what you find is like all of these men that look after their kids in the same way, you know, like we see like a lot of women after they've had babies and they're, you know, looking after their kids and they take some time off of work, we're in Sweden as a society that is not default the mum. Sometimes it's the dad and the dad will take nine months off of work. Okay. And this society is obviously set up for them to be able to do that. So that's a different thing. Yeah. Having said that, it is never like, okay, the mother, it's her responsibility to do all these things with the kids. Yes, not gender. It's not rules based solely off of gender. Quite the opposite. And so I think that having that type of husband has really helped. And he's ambitious too. He has a whole life and a whole career and we support each other. I love that and I'm so happy for you. So blessing. So after initially enrolling in London, College of Fashion, you left before graduation to pursue your career. How did you know that was the right decision for you, especially in a society? I mean, I'm sure it's the same in London, definitely in America. School is very much pushed as the only gateway to success. The thoughts are different now, but especially back then. I couldn't afford it. It just came down to the fact that I was in school. I'd left home for many, many different reasons, but I wasn't getting on with my mom and she was other than you can get out. And I couldn't afford to go to school every day. I had to work. And in my mind, I had such a dream of working in fashion that I wasn't really willing to sacrifice my dream, but I couldn't have both. And so it was just one of those things where I had to go, well, what do you do? Right? At the moment, I can see there's a job here that's kind of in fashion that pays me or this school. And so I had to go where the money was and it wasn't an easy decision, but when I look back on it, I really said to myself, okay, I'm going to split this idea of work and learning. And so I did like a year and a half of internship. So I kind of, you know, if you got seven days, I would do three that I worked for free and be paid for the other four. So in my mind, I was like, I'm still learning, I'm keeping my foot in, I'm working towards what I wanted to do. But it was probably the hardest 18 months of my life because I had no money, you know, like my wage just about paid for my train ticket. And it was tough. It was a very difficult time. I was living in a high rise in East London. I kept my milk on the balcony because I didn't have a fridge. I didn't have a star. Well, it's keeping it cold. In England, it's cold. And you know, the milk got a little funny, but I'll be like, I don't matter. It's okay to see, you know, like you just do what you have to do. You know, it's like that is true. What would you say to young people that are wrestling with that conversation with themselves, whether they should go to school, if they should actually just get out there and get some real life experience? Do you hear that? Baby, a warm getaway must be calling my name because spring has officially sprung. We're saying bye bye to endless winter layers and hello to sunny beach season. I finally have a little time off coming up. And with my crazy schedule, that's rare. So I'm thinking of a long weekend escape with my family. The question is coastal Santa Barbara vibes or desert stay in Palm Springs. All I know is that when I'm planning a trip, booking to stay on Airbnb just makes everything easier. I just love having a whole house to ourselves. We can each have our own space, no cramped hotel rooms to worry about and come together for fun movie marathons or epic game nights in the living room. Everyone can be as loud as they want because things can get competitive y'all. And let's face it, a meal is better shared around a table than a bed, especially when it's my dad's cooking. But here's the real magic. We get to play locals, wandering through neighborhood parks and popping into all the best family owned under the radar restaurants on the recommendations of our lovely super host. You already know I love a good food tour moment. So if you're planning spring or summer getaways with your favorite people, find a stay on Airbnb. Trust me, that home away from home feeling can't be dubbed. So look, I think that the ideal thing, and as a mother of four, I want all of my kids to make the most of their education. But I am highly dyslexic and I didn't find out until I was in my mid-20s. So learning for me. it was hard. It didn't come easy. I struggled. I was a bad student, ideas didn't land properly, like homework was hard for me, and everything just felt clunky. And so I think that what you have to do is really know yourself. Like it's not like I'd said, okay, let me just go and do nothing. I was like, okay, how am I going to supplement my learning? And one of the things that I really believe about myself is I'm always in learning mode. Kiki, wherever I am, I'm going to be learning. And so it's like if the traditional education system isn't for you, then you've got to figure out what is for you. You can't just go and like throw it to the wind and expect something to happen. You've got an engineer situation that is going to give you what you're losing over here. So I'm like, then engineer that situation. But don't wait for anyone else. And that's what start with yourself is about. I'm not ever looking for somebody to come and hand me something. I'm going to craft a situation for myself regardless of what's happening. So you've got to do that. How do people find this in themselves? What are the things or the practices that have been a part of your life that have allowed you to actually know your voice? Because this is like someone knowing their voice. And I find this very difficult when I'm talking to people that are trying to build a brand or just trying to engineer their life. They don't even know how to get to the truth of what they're asking for. They're still stuck at money, fame, and not having to worry about like it's the surface stuff, not what really drives them. How do we get there? So I think there's a couple of pieces of this. The first one is and you know this, as you get older, your job becomes like how you get closer to yourself. And what I mean by that is to understand like, who am I? And what makes me happy? What are the things that I uniquely do well? And I think because I grew up like really fast, right? Because I was a parent by the time I was 12. I learned that a little bit quicker. And so you can't be trying to please other people. You know, I always talk about this idea of you can't be a people pleaser and a leader. So when you're trying to lead yourself, it has to be similar. It's got to come from the things that are true for you. And that idea of always chasing what feels glossy, what feels like, you know, interesting is not always the truth of what you really want. So the first thing that you've got to do is get down to like, what is it that I really want? And then a healthy dose of realism because it takes a long time. And what I talk about and the reason I said that question of like the reality of the work, I want to show like how long it takes because I've had a job since I was 12 years old. I'm 43 now. And everyone's like, oh, look at her. But it's like, yeah, do you know what, do you know what I did? Like, let me take you through the journey. And also I think just knowing that it is a journey. Life has chapters. And so you might just be in a chapter where, you know, the chapters actually about like this kind of hard landing where things don't work out for you. And then you're moving to another chapter where actually the groundwork that you laid here does something over here. But I don't know anyone who's an overnight success. And if they are, they're gone tomorrow. So it's better to do the slow and steady. It is. And what you're saying is so true because the truth piece, which you were saying, I'm big on truth too, because not just in this more ethical way, but as being accurate, the more truthful I am, the more accurate the outcome is. And the other reality is everything will have its time. I think sometimes a lot of times we put this pressure on ourselves that it has to happen by this or we compare ourselves to somebody else and that. But the truth is everybody has their time and alignment comes for all of us in different phases of our life. I think you are 100% right about that. And one of the things that I did very early was kind of get a hold of my emotions. And I think often times we can be very led by our emotions, especially as women. I had a severe anger problem that I had to really get in check. Yeah, it's true. It's like really bad. You were like 19, you did it. Yeah, like I feel like I had it and still have it. And it's one of those things that you manage, right? Like you don't just get rid of it. It's like it's there. You just got it. How did it show up for you? Was it just internal? Was it your balance on you? No, no. I feel like it was one of those things that I hadn't been taught. And I love this. You know, I've kids now and they go to very progressive school and they meditate and they know how to breathe. No, whatever, tell me that. I just felt the way to deal with any problem was to lash out and to be the angriest one there and to be the biggest than the hardest one there. And where I came from, that was the default. That was what you were trying to do to aim for. And so I had to really learn the hard way. I had to learn that that wasn't something that was going to help me get to where I wanted to be. But equally, neither is guilt, right? Neither is, you know, some of the other things that we kind of go through our lives with. Like if you're a people, please, that is not going to help you be successful. So I think you're learning to deal with your emotions. And when I wrote this book, I almost wrote it backwards. I wrote about building a business and a brand. And what it means to create like the career of your dreams. And then I was like, how did I deal that? Oh, yeah, I got ahead of my emotions. So then I wrote all about emotions. And then, you know, I wrote about vision indexing. And it's so interesting because I kind of went backwards, you know, but I really wanted this to be a blueprint for successful women. I want people to understand what it really takes. Trying to distill your process, especially as a survivor, because I'm hearing a lot of that in your story, you know, you're not thinking about all the things, you're not indexing yourself while you're doing it, you're following your instincts. So I imagine this was probably, I mean, you tell me how difficult, but also how interesting it was to observe yourself in this way while trying to distill these, you know, this blueprint for other women to follow. It's very, very hard, but by the same token, I think there's so much out there, you know, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur now. Everybody wants to be a founder. And I think there's a lot in our culture that really, really tells women the opposite of what is true. We have been socially conditioned to enact behaviors that actually keep you away from wealth, that keep you away from visibility and opportunity. And so what I'm trying to say is that there's all these rules that are out there that actually don't apply. They're not for you. They're ingrained in the culture, but you've got to be able to move away from them. And so as I was going through this, I was like, what have I actually done? That's been meaningful. Like don't think about actually starting the brand. It's like, what is the behavior that's brought me there? And so I think that when you can start to get your head around those behaviors and really understand the stuff that's ingrained in the culture and why it's not so, that's what becomes really helpful. I'm really excited to read this book, really, really. As the daughter of a white English mother and a black Jamaican, Trinidadian father. Can I just, can I just say something there? So everybody always gets really confused here. My father is Trinidadian, but I was raised by a Jamaican stepdad. So when they ride it online, they go, "Jamaican Trinidadian, did I do that?" I'm like, no, I just. Exactly. We've got all the things going on. So I have an English mum. I have a Trinidadian real dad, but raised by the stepfather who was Jamaican. So the bottom line is, I know I have to cook jerk chicken, that's it. That's all that's basically what I'm talking about. Now we had jerk chicken baby. I'm a good cook. I'll tell you, I am a good cook. Yes, and Trinidadian flavor. How has that multicultural background impacted the way you think about beauty, belonging, and obviously what's become your brand? Actually, I think in an enormous way, because where I grew up, the idea of beauty was much broader than what was in the kind of fashion community, right? So if you think about the time when I was born, it was like the moment of like Brit pop and Brit art and Kate Moss and heroin chic, it was like thin, but that was never the beauty ideals that were in my family. It was like the curvy, the better, the more gleaming skin is, you know, like it was just not that. And so with my family, I really learned to have an appreciation for the female form. And so when I started Good American, that was at the forefront of my mind. It was like, how can you bring that beauty front and center and having worked in the fashion business for 15 years prior? I was very aware that anything that was done around size and race was very performative. It was about putting somebody in a campaign while nobody at the company looked like that. It was about creating this idea that, you know, we've got all of these sizes, when the reality was that the sample was cut in the back and, you know, you couldn't go round and look at the model from the other side. So I was like, I'm going to create a brand that's in my beauty ideal that really thinks about all women and thinks about what people want because it was my understanding that just because of the size of your butt, it didn't mean that you wanted something different, right? And the fashion industry is very, very largely run by white men. And so my idea of what I could do there was like based on this, you know, understanding of what is beautiful and what is going to make sense for most customers. And so I came at it from a very, very different place. I mean, and the demand has been clearly there since day one. I mean, when you talk about good American, it did one million dollars in sales the first day, scams generated two million in minutes. And I mean, both of them are three billion for a good American and scams, five billion. Well, you know, it's a lot of numbers. What I like is, you know, cash money. Like, I think the big way people always get like, they're like, you know, oh my goodness, numbers, it's crazy. Take us to Shark Tank. Well, that's what matters, right? It's like, look, I think that when, especially the time that we're in now, people are bombarded by this idea that if it's not a unicorn, it's not worth it. Like, I have a friend and I love her. She's called Renata Quaglia and she is Brazilian and she's beautiful and she makes these heavenly necklaces and she sells them to the best stores in the world. And that's her business. That pays her. She employs like four or five, like single mums in upstate New York and they crochet these beautiful things. That's also a business. So I want to kind of get out of this idea that everything has to be a trillion dollars to be worth it because the idea of business is much less about the cash that you generate and much more about like, what is my life? What is the freedom that that affords you? What does this allow me to do? So it's like, yeah, it's - Great, I've done some things that have been very successful. I also had a ton of businesses that didn't do (beep) - Yeah. - Right, so it's like, and somewhere in between that, it's like, yeah, I learned, and some things got good, but you can't engineer those things. - But I love this idea around visibility, because I speak a lot about this too, too, when I'm talking and people are asking me about business, like everybody doesn't have to love what you do for it to be successful, and success is defined by you. Are you making what your destination point was this year or that year? - 100%. I want to dive into the celebrity of it all, and why that was something that you want to lean into, and if you saw a lot of power in that, because some people could say, that's the whole power, but I don't imagine that to be true. So what are the pluses of working with people that have a name and a platform, and what are the things that are difficult about that, that you still have to do that nobody knows you're doing behind the scenes? - Totally. I mean, I'd spent, so, 15 years before I started Good American, I had built a group of agencies, and that was the first company that I ever sold. So my business was working on behalf of brands, and putting them together with celebrities. So there's no one who's done more celebrity deals than me. I put Natalie Portman into, you know, do your campaign or Gwyneth Pouchrow into Hugo Boss, like you know how this stuff works, right? So I really understood how when talent comes into a brand, the acceleration can go like this, but at the end of the day, it's all down to product. And so I have a very good appreciation and understanding for how that kind of initial power that comes with that partnership really propels something, and no one comes back twice to buy a bad product, they don't. So it's like the business, the brand, the logistics, everything has to speak for itself. And what I do is build companies. And so I really think about the two things as being like beautiful and symbiotic, but you can't have one without the other, and the two things need to like fit together. And when you have great partnerships, it's amazing, you know, it's like I've had good partnerships, I've had bad partnerships, I've been in lots and lots of different businesses that have done different kind of levels of greatness, or have just kind of fallen down. And I can honestly say that there isn't one component where you could say, ah, it was like that thing. It's always like the combination of so many different things. And I always say, you know, like a lot of people say, oh, you know, she's like the self made this and the self made that. Like do you know how many people I work with every day? Do you know how many people? There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people at my office. And every one of them matters. And so I think when you start at the bottom, you have a massive appreciation for what everybody does along the way. And there's no one piece that is more important than the other. Well, I think that's so true in my mind whenever I look at somebody that has a great business, as they also are smart enough to have a great team. When you look at the people that have allowed your business to be successful to help you to develop your business acumen, what is the star front team? What are you going to start on your business? Like I got to have the blah, blah, blah. I got to have the data like, who, what is the line? Yeah, let me tell you, because the first of all, they're still with me, which makes me so happy, all in different companies and different things. But I went out to dinner maybe three weeks ago with the four original people that started Good American. One of them has his own amazing market in agency. He doesn't work for me anymore, but he does still take pictures of me, because he's a really good photographer. One of them works in one of my businesses called Offseason. The other one works at Elder Satesman and the other one works at Skims. And so it's really interesting when you look at what happens to people for me, first of all, it's always going to be about the product, what you are making. Like forget about marketing. People get obsessed with marketing, obsessed with social. Whatever you do in the beginning has to be about the thing that you are going to sell, whether that's a digital product, a physical product, make that the best thing that it can be, because when somebody gets that, the market is figured out for itself. They're going to tell their friend, they're going to tell their mom, who's going to tell somebody else, and this flywheel starts to happen. But that never happens unless you have something great in the beginning. So I like to focus the first people that come into the business as being those product people. Then you've got to be reflective. You've got to say, what am I not? What am I uniquely good at? And what are my weak spots? And you hire for those weak spots. And so when I think about that original group of people, they were a American. They had an amazing understanding of the American market as it pertained to Denim. They were people that had excellent relationships that I didn't have with retailers and buyers and vendors. And so that's how I crafted the team. I was like, I know what I'm good at. But these are the places that I'm missing. And you fill in for those places. That's incredible advice. What lets you know that a product is good? Because you also are a matchmaking, whether it's with the celebrity or with the team. And you're deciding, you're seeing the value in something. That's like somebody that's taste. I mean, how do you know? How did you build your taste? How did you know that this is going to work? It's the hardest thing. Yeah. This is where it comes in handy being from where I'm from. Because I don't lie to myself. Because when I was a kid, there was no time for that. But it trains you to not be full of it. Because some people can speak themselves into anything. I can't. It's like, I know when something's good. And I'm willing to take the feedback and I'm willing to hear the hard stuff. So what you do when you've got a product, you intrinsically think it's good. But you've got to throw it out there. You've got to get as many people to try it, to buy it, to give you feedback. And then you've got to take the feedback. Because that's what people don't like. So you use your gut instinct. Mix with other people's feedback and you constantly iterate and perfect. And one of the things I think people get wrong about businesses is they think that the first thing is the thing. No, your business, your purpose, your what it is that you set out to do, should never change. Everything else needs to change. The staff changes, the product evolves, the business changes shape. The initial reason for being should stay the same and everything else transitions on the way up. And people get so stuck to their ideas that they don't move quickly enough. What I have done is constant iteration. You make everything better all the time. How do you know you're doing that without taking the integrity away from the core thing? Because I'd imagine that's the question that people ask themselves, especially as more people become part of something. That is a great question. That's where having a purpose comes from. So if you boil it down, when we started Good American, we were like, we're going to make clothes for all people. The best fitting jeans that every size of butt. That was it. 00 for 24. That meant that when Netaportay came to me and said, Emma, we want to buy your jeans sizes zero through 10. That was a million dollars. A million dollars in the beginning of business is a lot of money. Yes it is. But it went against our principles. So we had to say no. So it's like, you've got to be willing to take that purpose. That thing that you've said in the beginning are your principles and make your decisions based off of those things. Because otherwise you get into this slippery slope of a constant winding back of what you said you stood for. So it's like, you can't just write the principles down and go, okay, here's our principles. You go take those principles and you go to use them to make decisions. And that helps you what you say yes to and what you say no to. There's that truthful thing again. There you go. Being real, keeping it real. You're often the strategic force behind globally recognized personalities. But as a founder, that isn't always the face. Which I think this is changing much with you. We're seeing you more. We're hearing from you more, which is very important. But how do you negotiate power in partnerships and knowing even at the point that you're in now that you want to be seen and you want people to know that you're behind all this? Yeah. Well, I think that there's two parts of this, right? If you have great partners, you don't do the same thing. Like different people have different strengths. So I think that's the first thing like really understanding your strengths and that's part of being good at what you do, like knowing what you bring to the table and knowing what you don't. And I think what happened to me, Kiki, is that I kind of went around and I was doing what I do and people started asking me questions and what I realized is it's not small at the top. It's miniscule. And so if you're a girl like me that has very little education and very little access in the beginning and you start to see that over and over again, it becomes your responsibility to be the change, to be the shift. And oftentimes people were asking me questions that I had answers for. I was like, oh yeah, I know where you can do that. I understand that. I know what you should pay for. You should probably speak to my lawyers. You need IP protection so I could help you. Okay. So I was like, oh, I'm going to do it, right? So it's like, do you feel this responsibility? Because you're like, I know that. That's what's stopping you. So to me, it became this sort of mixture of, I can do it and I have the access. I have done it and I can be really honest about the mistakes I've made. And also what I really want isn't more companies and you know, more like things to put trillions of dollars behind. What I want is for there to be like a million limits, a million girls who you wouldn't on paper think could do it and yet they can because they've been given the opportunity and the information and the access. And so that's how I think about my work now. I'm like, this stuff is not about who can. It's about who gets to. Yes. So I'm just going to make sure that a bunch of people get to. Yes. I mean, how has this, as your businesses have grown, how does that impact or even grow your relationships with people like Kim and Chloe that you've done good American and skims with? How does it grow in my business? How does it change and impact your relationship with your other team members? Do you know what? It's really interesting because I think as long as everybody is doing what you set out to do, nothing really changes. You know, it's like, I think that we've always been in this situation where everybody does like a bunch of things. I have had lots of different businesses and lots of different opportunities. And they've had different businesses and different opportunities. And, you know, I think the truth is, Kiki, like success sorts everything out. Yes, wow. When you're doing well, everybody's happy. Yeah, period. Period. So we have to talk about the diary of a CEO, work-life, ballet conversation. Do we? Because. Do we? I mean, what we're about? Baby, this is Kiki Paula, yeah. What were you thinking when you got to see that? Were you gay? No. No. No. No. No. By the book. Let me tell you one of the key reasons that I wrote this book was because I wanted people to understand some of the comments that I've made because I am very honest and I am very true for and I do say what is my truth. The important thing to know here is that you know I'm not an expert on a podcast telling you what, one, two, three things I can do. I am showing you the way it has worked for me and I am honest about those things and what I think is that work from home culture is a career killer for women and let me explain to you why. Remembering that I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of women that work for me. Now what is happening is that we talk about all of this sort of upside of Zoom culture but none of the rigidity of it and no one will really tell you that careers require proximity and visibility. You want to pay rise, you want the next promotion, you want the big corner office, guess what? You need to be there. You might not want to hear it because it might be comfortable in your living room but the facts are the facts and I'm not here to sugarco information or to load women up with toxic positivity. I don't want to say push us out but it's almost slowly a way to be like you're not needed or you don't really, it's not a there's no urgency because you're away. It's eroding the potential for women to be successful. Interesting. Period and off. Your boss won't tell you that because they're not allowed to tell you the way we have built human resource culture in this country and the rest of the Western world is that no one can have that conversation with you. But the truth is the truth, it just is. If you're not there, if you're not in the room, there is going to be somebody else that is and guess what, like they will get that opportunity over you. This is not about like whether or not these things are true or properly understood or whether they're right quite frankly because I know that for some people they're like, but wait a minute, I need this flexibility. The way that we all come into work now is that and I listen, I run organisations that are very flexible, nobody misses things that they need to do a dentist appointment appointment with their kids because they have to be in work from this hour to this hour. There's a level of flexibility that's assumed in the workplace right now, but I think it's a little bit like this idea that we've built for ourselves that you're like, you can listen your way to success. I just stack all these podcasts, like I'm going to get really successful. No, ambition has to find you working and work is just work. I think about this a lot when I think about words like responsibility and accountability and I do feel like sometimes in what work culture, we can find ourselves giving all of that power to our employers because we don't know how to exercise, no, we don't know how when it's our point and our turn to extend a boundary or to walk away if we need to and so I think about those things when we talk about these comments or just employee in work culture and I'm curious, even if it's just us looking at our own selves, what's your relationship to responsibility and accountability when it comes to work life balance? It's yours. It's yours and it's very, very important that you take it seriously and that you match it with what it is that you're trying to achieve. So it is not for everybody that you want to give more, extend the boundaries, work extra. That's for those ambitious little monsters that want a lot of success and not everybody needs to be like that. Having said that, if you are those people, realize that you will need to go the extra mile. You did not wake up one day, Kiki, and like fall into your latest movie. You auditioned, you worked, you practiced, you took good jobs, not so good jobs. You changed agent, you move over here, you adapt the team, you learn, you go to classes, you have to do all of this stuff and that's the truth of it. And I do know that this is a fine line but I find it so interesting and I'm not comparing your comments to his but when we do hear men like even we think about President Obama saying there is no work-life balance. He said the exact same thing. Him and Mark Cuban. I think it's very interesting because yeah, I agree with you. Your expectation of me is that if I don't say something warm and cuddly and empathetic and put it in a way that is digestible for women because women might not be able to hear it in the same way, that somehow I'm wrong but the truth is women can take it. We can take the information and then we can make the decision. And again, it's about you get to make that decision. You don't have to do that. But it's like at least have the information. Don't be sitting there thinking oh my goodness, I wonder why all of this great stuff isn't happening for me when I am logging into that zoom all the time. It's like well. And I think both things can be true in meaning. There is hyperfunctioning, there is overdoing it but there are also seasons of I gotta go for it. And then you check yourself. Like I've had to do that with myself. I've been running for so many years, working, working, working. I don't regret any of it. I have been putting it out on the line. I've been acting like I won't get fed tomorrow. That's how much I've been going for it. But then there's also a season where you say okay, what we did now, let me have gratitude for what all those years did for me. Let me sit back and now let me choose. Now I can say, because of the work I put in and what I decided to do for these first 20 years of my career, then now as we get into 2021, 22, 23, 24 to 25, I can start to rearrange. I think that's also something that I want people to understand is like there is this reality that you can't get around this hard work. This extreme hard work, if that's what you want. And that's what comes back to. And it comes back to, listen, extraordinary careers come with extraordinary effort. And again, it's only about right sizing your ambition to the amount of work that you're willing to put in. And I do think it's about seasons, you know, I look at my kind of late teens and throughout my 20s as this time where I didn't have any big responsibilities and I write about this a lot, because it's like there is a moment in your life where that is the time, like that's the time you put the pedal to the metal and you go for it. But you need to remember that life is long and then it comes in chapters and there will be times where you don't have to play that game anymore, that you don't have to do that. But it's like you really need to think about like what is it that I want, like am I looking for this big career? Am I looking for a family because I also think what's happened is that, you know, women have been taught right now so that they should delay, like families and having children. And you know, I was really lucky. I had two kids in my early 30s and when I went and wanted to have more kids, the option was no longer mine. And I thought in my head, I was like, but wait a minute, I thought it would be fine to have a kid my late 30s, early 40s. Now listen, Kiki, I am not advocating for teen pregnancy. I'm just saying that waiting until your 38 probably isn't a good idea either, right? It's like careers have timelines, your fertility doesn't, like it's just that simple. Like your fertility comes in a specific moment and you have to work within that window. Yeah. And off. And then it gets difficult because not everybody believes in serocacy or not everybody believes in IVF. Right. And not everybody believes in IVF, by the way, I will say for the record, I have done both of those things. I had my twins by Sarah, I had multiple rounds of failed IVF. In fact, they worked, but I lost babies, but that's a different conversation. How do you do that? No, it's very sad. I think, listen, there's a lot of optionality if you have the means, not everybody has that. And so if you're working with nature and you're working with a regular budget and a regular salary, you will need to think about whether or not you want to have children and that has a timeline on it. And it's not for everyone. I think you bring up a lot of interesting things that are important that whether people agree or not, it's these are the conversations that we should be having. All of us are trying so hard to just get it right. We want to work, the economy is crazy, we're trying to figure out entrepreneurship because we don't want to work for the man or whatever. You know what I mean? So, we have to tab the conversation, so I'm really excited for people to hear what you have to say on these things because yeah, let's get into the V-back of it all. How do you think privilege impacts conversations about ambition, especially women in business? Oh, it has a huge impact, right, because I think at the end of the day, when you start, when everybody's like, you know, bootstrap it, like bootstrap with what, what am I bootstraping with, I'm just about to get through the day, I just, you know, it's like I remember like those early days when people would say bootstrap, I was like, we thought, what, did you know they learnt that? Right, my friends and family ran off, like my friends and family got, hey, we ain't got the bootstrap. We ain't got the bootstrap. The bootstrap. We got the bootstrap. It's like, to me, those concepts were so foreign and so this is where it really helps when you've got a very clear understanding of like what it needs and what it takes and what the optionality is because there are a myriad of different ways to start businesses and that's why I like to look at everything not as a billion dollar unicorn because you have to be honest about what do I have, the resources and the ability to create. And if you're trying to create a, you know, a business that is very capital intensive and requires something crazy, perhaps that isn't for you at this particular stage and you'll have to start somewhere else. So it's like, you have to match those things up, but I think that in the culture, we listen to so much, we hear so much, we think that everybody needs to raise a lot of money and honestly, that isn't the reality of how I see a lot of businesses. No, not at that chat. No, you know, I think that's the thing is I hate that about the comparison culture that we live in because it's stealing our process, we think we're comparing everything to everyone else. To everyone else. And then we feel like something is, it even feels more crushing of us feeling like we're being stolen, something's being stolen from us or we're being robbed for something because we feel like we supposed to be on that timeline. And it's like, I mean, there's, I think, you know, it's difficult, but there is some amount of faith that has to be in there when you're even in this kind of career, like because nothing is promised. I've always felt like I was free falling in my career as entertainer. I got a job until I don't have a job. And so, you know, I think there's a mindset that has to be, like, if you want this job, this industry, if you want to be an entrepreneur, if you want to go through this thing, then you're also going to have to have faith and it can't be contingent upon what you've seen somebody else do. And 100% or an unrealistic timeline, because my huge part of this is how long it actually takes. You know, there's an amazing quote out there that says, you know, people, people don't want to spend three years of their life creating a business, but, you know, they'll spend 40 years working for somebody else, like it takes years, like it takes years and years. And I had a lot of things that I tried that really didn't work. I really didn't leave me in an ideal place. But again, it's like you really have to have those moments to get to the successful place. And so I just, I think it's important for people to know that it just isn't what you think it is. You've done a lot of great work with 15% play, you know, pushing the initiative for real tellers to reserve 15% of their shelf space for black owned businesses. Is that the way that you feel, because obviously you can't, you know, you can't make everybody an entrepreneur, you can't, you know, we can only do so much, but for you, is that your way of being able to kind of create this cyclical kind of thing when it comes to black creators and people that are owning businesses and supporting them? Like, is this your way? I think it's one of the ways, you know, I invest in a lot of female founders, specifically black female founders. And so I think the way to do it is to put your money where your mouth is, because you can be driving around in really nice cars and have four houses and do all of this stuff. But if you can't talk about supporting founders without putting your money into founders, but the 15% pledge is another way that actually when we talk about like grassroots level, like shifting the conditions for black founders, right? So when you talk about, you can might start something and you might be able to fund it, but then you need to put it somewhere. What this platform does is create that space and make that exist. We're talking about a $14 billion pipeline of opportunity for black owned businesses. And so that is something that I am so, so proud of, but it really is interesting to me when I look at like how the landscape shifted, right? When you used to go into Sephora, you know, maybe there were like two, three brands that were, you know, black owned. Now it's like, it's totally different. And that is because the pledge created those conditions, it's because consumers said one second, we actually want more choice, like we want brands from different founders, but also on trappiners started to understand like there's more places for us to play. And I talk about this all the time, like black owned businesses aren't just for black people. So we need to make sure that they're given the platform so that they can really stand out and sit next to like other brands that are super well funded and have the same type of shell space and therefore the same type of opportunity. So for me, it's always, always about the founder because I've, I just, just on a call actually, with, I call him the spice boys, these, these intrappiners that I have from England, intrappiners, intrappiners, intrappiners lost my word there, these intrappiners that I have from England. You know, I looked at their business and I was like, this is cute, I actually believe in them more than I believe in this specific idea that they have, but I know that they're going to be successful at something. I'm very found a focused, I'm somebody that like believes in people and how much ambition and how they uniquely look at an idea. I'm obviously a product person, like if I see a big white space, I'm like, that's something that I would use, but I'm much, much more about, I would say, having a founder who I'm like, that is a person that I believe in, I believe that they have what it takes. And it's very, very rarely about just like the singularity of the idea and how they're thinking about distribution, it's much broader than that, like what is their way of thinking? How do they think about bringing something to market? What's the level of their ambition? And I'm also very good at spotting things that I wouldn't give time of day to, you know. So I try to give a lot of honest feedback because I get so many people that come to me and say, hey, I've got this thing. And so I'm ruthlessly honest because I don't think that women get enough of the real type of feedback that's needed and you can waste time on an idea. And I don't think that's helpful either. So I try to just be very, very truthful about what's missing, what they could do. I try to connect people to other people that could maybe help progress something and that's how I try to be useful. What are your thoughts on AI? Are you into AI products? Do you feel like that's a good access point for technology? I mean, I personally think that everything can be just as bad as it can be good. So there's always that. But I'm curious how you think it's changing our industry? I think that we don't have a choice right now. I think that the train has left the station. And I think what concerns me most, I remember what was it like 20 years ago when we were trying to get women into coding because there were so few women in e-com and digital space. And now I feel like the same thing is happening in AI, right? It's like if you go to one of the big platforms and you say, hey, I'm Kiki and I'm thinking about getting on this opportunity and how much should I be paid for it? So you've something very different than it tells John. And that is because of the lack of female intuition, investment, capacity for being involved in the highest places in AI. So that's the thing that I find really troubling at the moment. But we don't have a choice. If your business is not really taking the idea of how AI can support it, really seriously, you will be left behind. So I think about it with two hats, right? I've got my business hat on over here where I'm like, we have to fully envelop it in the company. And then I have my sort of like mom and society hat on over here where I'm like, it's the end of the end. Right. No, yeah. I think that's, yeah. Everybody feels like that. It's like, what the hell do we do? We feel that way about everything today. Well, I think the thing is we do what we should always do, right? Which is like, don't be passengers. Don't be passive. You have to be in it and understand it to be able to change it. So I'm really one of these people that never sits there and goes like, oh, what is happening to me? I'm like, what can I do about something? How can I take charge? And I think making sure that more women are at the driving seat of some of these things is going to be very helpful. I love that. I've been talking a lot about the tone shift in terms of like things are going to be happening. But my tone about it, I can control that. I can control how I approach it. I can control if it's a horror or if we're going to drama or if maybe it's a little bit of a comedy. I have to figure out how to make the tone one that is durable, that I can endure. This is your first book. Start with yourself. I mean, what made you say, yeah, I'm going to write a book. I think it was other people, the need and the thirst for knowledge. There's a lot of business books out there, but not a lot that are written by somebody like me with my background, with four kids. And I really thought that I wanted to write a book that is about like self-leadership, right? Like, there's so much out there to your point that you can't control, right? There is the media and the culture and where we're all at in society at large. And yet, I don't think that that should stop you. And I wanted to write a book that would be for very ambitious women who want an incredible career and they want to make a lot of money and they want a family. And I wanted to create something for them that they could take away and understand that there are all of these rules that are written and why they're just not so. And what I want every woman to take away when they read this book is that, you know, if you want money, it will work higher audacity. If you want like a big, big career, then you are going to need, like, and I say this, but it's like, and it is exciting, but it's like, you know, it's like, if you want a big career, you're going to have to realize that, like, that takes, it takes some give-ins. And if you want a family, then it's going to require some timing. And it isn't perhaps what you've been told. And if you want power, Kiki, power, like, nobody's coming to give it to you. You have to take it and make no mistake, my dear. We are desperate for more women in positions of power right now. And so the book is really about all of those things. And yes, there's, like, I've tried to write all of the things that I know about how you build a brand and how you can create a career of your dreams. But I really took it very, very seriously, like, where we are in time right now and taking some of the stuff that we're constantly told and telling you why it's just not so. I find you deeply motivating and very courageous, especially when we're coming out of a time and culture and society where the consumerism is based on giving you a fantasy. It's based on lies. And so to come out and say, "Hey, I do want you to win. And I'm doing my best to tell you the truth about how I've won and take it or leave it." I really love that. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that. It's a little hard, medicine. You might throw the book once or twice. I do think that you'll go back to the corner of your room and you'll pick it up and you'll be like, but that was you, Spark. - Did you bring me one? - Yeah, of course I did. - Yes, girl, 'cause I don't have the book. - What are we doing? - You've got to have the book, you've got to have the book. - Okay, we're gonna end this with a game because I love playing a game. You've hired a ton of people and let's be honest. You probably fired a few 'cause that's what happens sometimes. - What am I to? - I'm gonna read you a series of employee profiles and you tell me, are they hired or are they fired? - Are you ready? - Yeah, I'm ready, baby. - It's actually won't be very hard for me. Let's go. (laughs) - Okay, a jeansie self-describe perfectionist who tripled checks everything, but moves slowly. - I had a fire. - Fire. (laughs) And it's just 'cause they can't move slow, right? - You can't move slow. - They gotta be decisive. You said that actually. - I will tell you, when I first came to LA, I watched this lady move across when she took something off the printer and she walked across the office and I was sitting there with my assistant and I was like, what is that lady doing? And he was like, she's just nosy and across the office. And in London, you walked like that. Like you walked, walked, walked, walked, walked. So the death to the print, and I couldn't understand the speed. You know, so to me, slow is never good. I'm like, go, go, go, go, go. It's time to move. - Go, sorry. - And Ivy Lee MBA with multiple typos on their resume. - No, not even coming in the door, babe. You gotta have attention to detail. You know, did you, like, you know Melody Hobson came on my-- - Yes. - First of all. - First of all. Melody came on my podcast Aspire with Emma Greed. She was so amazing. And she spoke about how she has people, like, proofread her emails because it's, and here's the thing. Her point is that if you are that sloppy in that type of interaction, like, how are you behaving in something that's more important? Like, the details matter, those small things matter. - That's the one percent. - It's about texture. - Okay, a hungry, recent grad with endless ideas, but zero real work experience. - Oh, I'm taking them. - Yes! - I'm taking them. - I'm taking them. - If you're hungry, it's like, that's it. That's all I need. - A junior and level employee who is always reinventing, but never meeting deadlines. - That's just a conversation. - Period. - Yeah. - We give them a chance. - You need to let them know. - A senior executive who is endlessly indecisive. - No, indecision is not one of my things, and flexibility is a must for me. So I need people to be, like, make decisions and move on. - High performer who's clearly burned out the refuses help. - I'm just getting them the help. - That's fabulous. - Well, that's what we do. You know, when you have great people, that's a game changer for any business, and everybody goes through ups and downs, right? So it's like, if you have somebody who's like, lashing out at their team, but they're excellent. It's like, you get them the training that they need, because they're clearly going through something. So you've got to meet people sometimes where they're at, and you help them. - I love that. Someone who takes credit when things go right and is silent when they don't. - Out the door. It's a really important trait, not just to own out to things, but to learn from your mistakes. So if you're not owning them, you ain't learning. I can take any amount of mistakes. You can make a mistake every single day. If you come to me and you say, "I did this, "here's what I got from it, "and here's what I'm doing differently next time." That's fine. - Someone who ignores their job description and takes on any task, big or small. - I mean, that's my kind of person. I'm not gonna lie. (laughing) - I love on your monitor. - I love those people. Listen, again, you don't want to be picking up everything, but doing that little extra, do I look at those people that are right on the edge, like they do their stuff, and they do a little bit over here, and they understand a little bit more about the rest of the organization. You know, management speak. They call those people t-shaped leaders. They do their job really well, and they know enough about all of the other verticals in the business. You mean something? - I love this relationship there. We're getting this and stuff. - Her management school. (laughing) - I love the language. Okay, this is the last one. - Okay. - Someone with an incredible resume who struggles to take feedback. - It's training again. I'm working with you. - I love the training there with you. - I'm working with you. I'm listening. - I'm just a institution. - I think that there's so much. Like, I am a very open person, and when I see that on the other side of me, openness, willingness, like an ability to learn, I can work with anything. It's when you're closed. - Yeah. - You know, when you're wrong and strong. Hang on, I've time for that. - Well, I'm so excited about this book. I cannot wait to get into a start with yourself. Congratulations, and thanks for coming to the podcast. - Thank you, my darling. - What a joy. - Okay, that combo gave me life. - Success isn't about waiting for permission or for someone to save you. It's about taking control of your dreams and chasing your goals unapologetically. Emma embodies that. She's not afraid to say she wants to win, to make money and to build a legacy, but not only for a family, but for all the black women and entrepreneurs coming up behind her. Hope you guys enjoyed this one as much as I did. See you next time, 'cause baby, this is Kiki Pom. ♪ Baby, this is Kiki ♪ ♪ Baby, this is Kiki Pom, yeah ♪