Emily Crawford - Abilene City Manager

Emily, welcome to the show. Well, thank you. So happy to be here. We're going to jump right in, as we always do, into the rapid fire questions, 20 questions, 1, 2, 3 word answers. This is not a time for policy or explanation. It's a time for rapid answers. So we'll jump right in. Number 1, what is the most used app on your phone? Texting. What did you want to be when you were 10? A Mary Lou written. I would like to have been an Olympic gymnast. What's a habit you need to break? Picking on my fingernails when I'm nervous. Last thing that made you genuinely laugh out loud. Wow, not really. I try to laugh out loud every day. Every time you see my face really, I know. Well, see, now you've got me doing it. What keeps you up at night? What keeps me up at night would be the big hairy problems that I don't have easy answers to. If you weren't a city manager, what would you be doing now? I think I would have been an orthodontist. Okay. Favorite part of the job and worst part of the job. Favorite part is the teamwork of the people. Worst is the red tape. What is your coffee drink of choice? Generally a regular coffee. Regular just black with sugar and cream. Cream little sugar. How would you describe abbling roads? I would describe some of them as great and some as needing work. What is one city, state or national policy that you personally disagree with, but you enforce anyway or would like to change? Ooh, yeah, that's not a three word answer. I would say some of the hurdles that we have to go through for code enforcement, because that affects neighborhoods. And sometimes the city's hands are very tied on how rapidly we can respond to those. There's a story behind this one, but what's the longest running unresolved issue in abbling to your knowledge? Where what comes to mind? Anything? I would say our long term street maintenance would be one. And I would say additional water sources being the other. However, I would say they're both actively being worked on. What is the dumbest complaint that you've ever seen cross your desk here or in Bromwood? The, see, I know the answer easily. The dumbest complaint I ever received was that a person was blowing all of their leaves into the street and then calling the street sweeper to come pick them up. And when I let them know that that was above and beyond the services that we provided, he said, well, those aren't my leaves. They belong to the trees. That's kind of brilliant. Okay. Okay. That's a good one. What is the most common complaint that you hear or common issue that you hear over and over again? Yes, over and over. Of course, we have the street requests. But I also think that a common complaint I get is going to be alley maintenance, tall grass and weeds. So for me, I think it's its code enforcement or those types of concerns about private property. Red tape and money, no issue. What's a project you'd personally like to see done in Abeling? I would love to see the Abeling Convention Center have a refreshed functionality and ambiance to equal the double tree hotel next door to help build that convention center district. What is the most expensive mistake this city has made in your opinion over the last 20 years? Obviously, you've only been here for one year. That's going to be a tough one for me to answer. That we're still paying the price for or that you wish we would have taken a different direction over the last 20 years. I don't know that it would be a mistake, but it is clearly a city planning design, which does not have much underground stormwater drains. And so utilizing primarily our streets is our stormwater passages. It is something that was probably decided way more than 20 years ago, but it's one of those that we're kind of stuck with now. What's one thing residents constantly misunderstand about your job as city manager? I think that they think that I am the one who makes all the decisions. How do you relax and de-stress on a personal level? I have a pretty strict routine with my sleeping habits and I like to take walks in New yoga. And I always spend at least 30 minutes in the morning in silence and prayer. So I try to keep that in line. It keeps me sane. Biggest difference between being city manager of Abeling versus Brownwood. Size. Okay. One thing Brownwood does better and one thing Abeling does better. Ouch. I think that the city of Brownwood granted smaller community. I think they are more advanced in their downtown development. And some of that is just because of the simply the size that they're able to attack faster. As far as Abeling, I think Abeling has much more public art and live entertainment and various other types of those quality of life amenities and functions than what we experienced when we were in Brownwood. And you've been the city manager for one year now. Who was the most difficult councilman, but also the best? Well, of course the answer is only Mr. Councilman Blazeragan. And Brian William, the note that Brian Yates retired from city council today as well. So we came in at the same time. His race, his seat went to a runoff. And so he lasted, I think, about a month longer than I did. And you'll be happy to know that he did receive an eight cent check for his additional service. Well, I know he was crying about it. So he makes sense, I guess the squeaky wheel. All right, that concludes the rapid fire questions. You did well. Good job. I passed. So now we can get into the in-depth segment. Some of the issues facing Abeling and kind of your role within it. But before we get into the data centers, the water discussing what you do, you know, with additional tax revenue. I want to ask a question about you. So you worked for the chamber in Brownwood. Then you became city manager of Brownwood. Then you were hired as city manager for Abeling. Which was the bigger leap for you becoming the city manager of Brownwood for the first time? You know, becoming the city manager of a city Abeling that's ten times bigger. Just, you know, the show behind the podcast here is American Audacity. And so I kind of wanted to tap into what makes people audacious enough to believe that they can do something before they do it. Maybe they don't know all the elements that they're going to need to learn or if they can do it. But they still, they take the leap and they do it. And they believe in the audacity of doing something. What was so first, what was a bigger leap for you becoming the city manager of Brownwood or becoming a city manager of a city ten times bigger? I think that's a great question. I would say that the bigger leap was becoming the city manager of Abeling because when I was in Brownwood, I was already working for the city. I was the director of economic development. And I had the opportunity to already be a part of the city system. My office was right next to the city manager's office. And so I was able to learn and understand municipal government from a broad scale as economic development director there. So when I became city manager, I already knew all the department heads. I already knew all the council. There was a level of familiarity and comfort, although it was a brand new job. And so after being city manager for ten years in Brownwood is when I transitioned here to Abeling. So it wasn't a new job per se in a career change, but definitely a new city. So I did not have the context in Abeling that I did in Brownwood of familiarity with the people, the council, the community who used to be married to whom and who, which family has deep root. So all of the context, the relational context and the historical context I did not have in Abeling. And I didn't realize it until after I was here. I took that for granted in Brownwood already having a lot of those relationships established. Just from starting in a new city with an entire new council and entire new staff. Not only do you learn the city and the policies, but you have to learn each person individually enough to build that working relationship. So was there a moment before? So if the Abeling city manager position was kind of the bigger leap, it sounds like with the Brownwood, it was kind of step by step by step. and it was more gradual and then you were there for 10 years as the city manager. Here this was kind of jumping from one pond to a larger pond or a small lake, let's say. Did you have moments of wait, is this the right decision? Is this too big of a leap? Do I know what I'm doing? Or you were just excited and then it didn't hit until after you got the job. Oh, this is a big jump. Where did it hit you before or after or never? No, I think it probably hit me more along the lines of about four months into the job here. Part of that is because there was still a lot of transition within the city. Mindy Patterson, the deputy city manager was retiring. Here I am, brand new city manager, having to pick a new deputy when I barely knew where the file cabinet was. There was kind of this constant ramp up of needing to tackle new things. We were also looking at the expansion phase two of the data centers. Coming to Abelene, I feel like I came at a bit of a crest of a massive wave of this, whatever this new season is in transformation for Abelene. And so I was coming in at a point where I wasn't only just learning the landscape of what's existing, but all of this new that was compounding, you know, the Bass Pro. We were doing the negotiation for the Bass Pro deal and those kinds of things. And so, gosh, I have gotten myself off topic here. I apologize. I was going down a rabbit hole. So I think that looking up and going, I'm trying to work a Bass Pro deal and work with a major data center and on and on all these things. What am I doing here? But that's where I constantly have to remember. I am not the only one. That's why I have a council. That's why we have the staff. And what an incredible council and staff to immediately embrace me, come alongside me. And this is a team sport. And so it was just one of those things. My husband is a minister and in fact, his message last week was God doesn't call us to do things that we can do on our own. Otherwise, there's no need for God. And so that is a humbling moment when you realize I need God's strength and wisdom. And also those that he has placed around me to carry this out. Do you ever feel whether it's four months in or even now of like, oh, this was a big step and you've got to not recenter yourself, but go, okay, how do I keep my head above water? Where do you turn? Oh, not that I bid off more than I can chew, but this is such an audacious step. Now you're probably good. Now you're you're a year in and your head's above water and you're probably out of the water now. But I'm focusing in on that step of people kind of making the leap and going, I'm going to start a new business where I'm going to do this venture. And I don't know how, I don't know if I'll, you know, don't know all the steps. Where, where did you turn to on a practical level? Was it was that 30 minutes every day that you took in the mornings to center yourself? Or was it your husband talking with your husband on a daily to keep yourself from being overwhelmed? Was it an inner dialogue? Was it where did you kind of turn to go? No, no, no, I'm up for this. It's all of those things. It's also my relationships with other city managers across the state that I knew took leaps from smaller communities to larger communities or had just changed cities recently. And saying, okay, how long did it take you to feel like you you had a a grass bell in the city? How long did it take you to establish relationships with the council? And that just that sense of dialoguing with others who have walked this path before. And that was encouraging for me. And the other thing was just knowing that it was a season. Yeah. And and that this was a learning curve. And this was new. And everything, you know, there's a season for everything. And I was just in a growth mode of learning, absorbing, tackling, executing. And that it would, eb, and become that season would end and come into something else. And just knowing I've just got to keep going until the next gear kicks in and I'm in a different season. I'm only familiar obviously with Abelene, Sarvelle, you know, Abelene City Council, but I can't imagine another city going through as much as we did through one very tight period. And then having a new city manager, I mean, from obviously everyone knows the largest data center in the nation, you know, was up and running or starting up at that time. We'd just gone through a cyber attack. We were doing all these other projects from AYSA to the two rec centers, you know, millions and millions of dollars. Yes. The Bass Pro Shop. All these massive physical projects, including the data center, including the cyber attack. And to be brought in and going, all right, here you are day one, you're right in the middle of it. It wasn't just a crest of like great things happening and just continue on. It's no, you got to figure out everything as you go and don't drown. Good luck. That's intense. You know that pretty much explains it. Yeah. That's well done. Well done. All right. So let's get into some of the issues. So first off, what, you know, speaking of the data center and all these big kind of projects, great legs, cheese, the the Dias Air Force Base, what is the expected growth for abling over the next 10 years, do you think? So the DCOA is actually done a study on this and they have it released in their annual report for 2026. And the estimates that they are looking at by their relationships and knowledge of the the business and industry community is between about a nine and 18 percent increase in population for the abling MSA. And so of course that is Taylor Jones and Callahan counties. So that's not just specifically the city limits of abling. So that looks like about a 17,000 to 37,000 population increase in in the next 10 years, which sounds like a lot when you say 37,000 people. But again, remember that's going to be a high end of that of that projection and it is over a three county area, most of which we should expect to be more close to or in the city limits of abling. However, when you look at a 10 year span and you say even if it's on the low end of the 9 percent growth estimate, that's roughly 1 percent a year. Now what we may see is a ramp up of a, you know, 3 or 4 percent a year and then to level out. But as a whole, abling has not grown more than about 1.5 percent a year over its past, you know, 10 years. So even at a 3.5 percent growth rate, which is about what we're at now, it feels crazy. But that's because our trajectory has typically been so incremental that we haven't really noticed it. So right now we're going at, you know, if we're looking at a typically a 1 to 1.5 percent increase and now we're at a, what do you just say, 3.5? So almost three times the normal rate within a year, it sounds like it's a bit front loaded that curve. And so we're going through a year or two or three of front loading the high growth and then it'll level off at least that's the projection. So roughly anywhere between what does that work out to be 1,700 and 1,300 people a year additional to abling? Yes, that would be that the annual increase. That's a lot of housing that's needed. A lot of that growth has come from data centers from outside the city. So outside city control. And this is something that I've tried to kind of maybe not push back but educate in that back when Lansium, the data center here in in town was just starting their product 22, 2023. There were no data centers in West Texas. This was all, you know, brand new. There was none of this old data centers popping up. This was really the first one in all of West Texas. And it was between do they build outside city limits or inside city limits. And if they build inside city limits, then we get additional tax revenue and some control. They build outside the city city limits literally just a few hundred yards across the street. They would be outside the city control and city jurisdiction and tax no tax revenue. And so that's why we wanted them in the city limits. And we see the consequences of those that are outside the city limits in the one in Shacklford just across the county line. And then the ones up in Haskell that we're still seeing the effects of it. But we really don't have any control. We don't even know when they're coming in because we're not in those those discussions. So how do you as a city manager deal with those waves of people coming in the temporary workers, you know, each one's looking at around what five to 7,000 workers depending on the size five to 7,000 temporary workers for each data center. So if you've got two, you know, the Lansium and the Shacklford one, there's 14,000,000 workers just from those two data centers. That's a massive influx of people for a population of 130,000. How do you use a city manager try to cope with that and plan for that. And is it is it in the the discussions with do you kind of force yourself into those discussions with the other data centers. or you just kind of go, "Hey, we'll see what plays out in the public information space," and hopefully we adapt. So we have been as proactive as we can be, and in fact, have been able to build some good relationships with Vantage, which is the developer of the Data Center in Shackleford County. And the mayor and I tour their site, probably about a month ago, and housing, of course, is one of our bigger conversations. And so they have been open to discussing housing with the city. They understand the impact that it also has on them. You know, if they don't have a workforce in a place for them to live, then that slows down their construction. So clearly, we've had great and frequent communication with Lansing, Minkersow, and Oracle, OpenAI, regarding the Stargate campus. And in fact, we are meeting about quarterly with all of those entities, with the Chamber of the DCOA, the mayor and I. So that is something that we started a few months ago to really try to have these community conversations with everyone around the table. And so, yes, we are talking housing. And because of those conversations that we're able to have directly with the, specifically, the Stargate and the Vantage Data Centers, they are coming up with more housing solutions on their own. They are bringing in housing developers and investors to also try to source and create new inventory. They are not looking to us as to the sole solution of all their problems. They understand they have brought the workforce and they have been working with us. Now, the challenge about housing is unless you're doing something that is RVs or these modular homes. And even that is taking time when you put in the utility and the infrastructure. So the timing, we have a lot in the pipeline of new residential development, whether that's multi-family, single-family. But as you know it, we can't just throw those up in three months. And so what we're having is this constraint of influx, of workforce, shortage of housing. And we are truly at kind of this critical point. And I would definitely say that this is critical mass. But we do have inventory in the pipeline. In fact, just in one in the May City Council approvals for zoning, we had over a thousand units through the zoning process, and 800 of those were multi-family units. So they're coming. It just is that we don't have that supply on the ground yet. So I think we can understand the historic of what is now a Starkate, was just only two buildings. It wasn't intended to be this hyperscale project, nor was there going to be one a stone throw away. I understand that this concerns and the comments of why wasn't the city more prepared? Why didn't we work on this sooner? And so it is, it changed and happened so quickly that we were not able to do that. But one of the things that has helped is having these numbers of the workforce that we have, having these projections of population with the housing survey that was done by the Chamber of Commerce, on the housing demand. We've been showing those to the real estate community, to the banking community, to the building community, and they are responding. And they are ready to help, and they're ready to see, abiling, continue to provide the housing that we need, not just for temporary, really for our long-term residents. Where there's demand, typically the private sector will eventually supply. It's so true. And to walk up to a builder and say, "Hey, will you put 500 houses on the ground?" We think we can fill them in two years. That's not a good business proposition. Yeah. Well, I think the city has taken some steps. We implemented really before this growth was known, to incentivize builders to build in the interior part of Ablaine, and kind of renovate it. But it has been a nice benefit now that the housing needs have skyrocketed. And I think also, I don't want to miss a tribute. I think it was Matthew Dinn in the water department in the strategic meeting suggested the map of all the properties in Ablaine, and which ones were ready to be developed, utility connections, ready to go, and which you could still buy, but they would take more time and money to get ready. And so this was a step by the city to go, "Let's make it a little easier and do what we can to help the developers out there bring more housing supply online." What do you tell people, especially renters, where they're doubling or tripling in some cases, what's your kind of timeline on renters tight, renters increasing now? How long do you think that will be until the supply side comes up and matches demand, and then rental prices go down? What's kind of just your personal, what you tell people out there? My perception is about 18 months. And I know that sounds like a long time, and you are right. I am well aware of rental prices, and my son has some, young adult friends that are renting an apartment, and it's really wild, what they are having to spend. But I think the key is what you said is supply and demand, and the other thing that I think that is important for residents to understand is that the city has no authority to regulate private rental market, nor hotels, which is a whole 'nother' subject. But I do think within about 18 months, we will have some of these multi-family projects up and going, some more single family homes that will be available, which are going to be more along the lines of an entry level workforce affordable housing. The other thing is that within 18 months, the Stargate project will be almost complete in its construction. Phase two, which is buildings 9 and 10, are expected to be finished by the end of 2027. So it's a combination, it's a combination of more inventory, but it's also a combination of seeing some of this temporary workforce decreasing. Now I'm all for this growth, obviously there's growing pains. I campaigned almost four years ago on bringing better jobs and growth here. So I'm a fan of all of this, as long as we manage the challenges as we go through. The other kind of footfall, as far as the housing issues is, the diacere force-based expanding, can you give people a sense of that, you know, as Stargate, Lancme, Wines Down, or finishes up and those temporary workers shift out, the diacere force construction is increasing. So is it going to really stay about the same, or are we expecting another big jump in housing demand? When that ramps up? So the numbers that I'm receiving is that the diacere workforce, as far as a construction, is around 35 to 5,000. And so, but what we're seeing with, say, the Stargate is around 9,000. Now, and then we have Vantage, which, again, those numbers are daily changing. But I do expect that once we see the Stargate project complete, Vantage project will still be going, but they don't have the same temporary workforce numbers, as the Stargate project does currently. Plus, they also have several of their own housing solutions through RV parks and things like that. So I do believe what we're going to see is we're still in this peak of temporary workforce, and then it's going to subside some, but then, you know, like you said, we'll pick back up, but we're still not slated to be at a peak demand of temporary workforce or temporary housing once we reach past 2028. Well, and something, you know, it's not a, I wouldn't say, a third or a fourth foot falling, but it's also contributing is the Haskell data centers going up about 40 minutes north of Abelene. They're building two, I don't remember the size, but a lot of those workers, project managers, electricians, and financial guys I've met, and they're all living in rentals in Abelene and then commuting up every day. And so that's another, you know, it's basically a third and a fourth data center that are contributing to us as well. Exactly. And I love what you brought up at the beginning of the conversation, which was, we didn't know that was going to be, we didn't know we were going to be the hot bit. Yeah. And that the city of Abelene was going to be supporting three or four data center construction projects all overlapping. Yeah. So on power, power is really a state issue. We don't, we don't really have control over it. We do have some control. And this is what I always tell people is I like that. Lansing, I'm Stargate is in city limits because we had the agreement with them and we were able to control some of the things, you know, sound, air quality stuff like that. Now some of that's regulated by the, by the still the state of Texas, but sound, what's the, what's the maximum that they can do sound wise out there? So they must comply with the city's sound ordinance, which is at the property line. It's 70 decibels, which 70 decibels is about the same volume as standing next to a washing machine while it's running or riding in a car on a highway. So it's that home that you may not want to sleep next to. But again, that's the property line. So at the problem, property line, it cannot be more than 70 decibels. They have done their sound studies and they are installing acoustic walls that will go around, say the gas turbines to help accommodate for that. And it is part of our agreement with them that they must be in compliance with the sound ordinance or they will have to put in additional measures in order to become in compliance. Out of the top of your head, if you can think of a lot of the complaints that I hear are people that are not informed saying, "Oh, well, the data centers, wherever they are, they just come in and steamroll and they don't abide by the laws and they do what they want." That's not the case. I can only speak for ablings deal, but that was an agreement that we negotiated for a very long time, phase one and phase two. Are there any other points that you like to point out that are in the agreement that actually do protect abling residents who say, "No, we do have control on these points here." Certainly. So, of course, water is something that people are still asking about. And in our site infrastructure agreement, we articulate the volumes of water. Now we're not capping them. I want to be sure we didn't say we would cap the water, but we did say that they were still subject to our drought contingency plan. That is something I think is very important for people to know is that when and if we get into those seasons of drought where the residents and the businesses are all having to reduce their volumes of water, the data center has to as well. So, we're not giving them a pass. They aren't going to be getting exempted from this. So, I think that's an important piece that we ensured to articulate in our agreement. We also articulated in the agreement, like you said, about the air quality standards being in compliance with federal and state regulation. We also required that they would repay Sandy and Spinks roads that are now inside the city limits. Those were county roads, but when we annexed. So, those portions that are now city, they are going to have to repay them and bring up to standard as far as passable roads. So, that's something that they will be doing granted. They're not going to do that until they're done with the project. We don't want them to. Once the project is complete, they will be required to rebuild those roads. But potentially for those out there in that area to give them a timeline. Potentially, maybe beginning of 2028, if they're supposed to finish in 27, maybe 28. Okay. Very good. These one of the agreement was negotiated before, I believe you were a city manager. And then you were involved with phase two expansion agreement once you were on. What's the biggest clause that you're glad is in there now that we're in the space that we're in now? I think it is the sound requirements. And there's multiple. I mean, everything in there, I think is beneficial to the residents to know that we are watching. We are going to be ensuring that local ordinances and state regulations are followed. Things like they must allow our emergency services to come out for training. So that that ensures that if there is a fire or an incident that our personnel know how to access the campus and know where to go. Not just for their property, but really for our people safety and understanding of how to maneuver around the campus and those hazards that they may need to be aware of. So I think that's an important piece too that the average person may not think about. Yeah. Well, and again, just to reiterate going into my next question, just to lay the land. Again, when we're negotiating this 22 and 23, there are no data centers out here. We don't know what it's going to bring if it's going to be a boom, a bust, a nothing. It's all going to be a, you know, I think initially there were going to be a Bitcoin mining facility. And then they transitioned and it was kind of like a very aferial, very like, okay, maybe this will pan out. Maybe it won't. Maybe we'll get tax revenue. Maybe we won't. And as we're going through this, we're really the the guinea pig in a lot of ways, especially on this scale, nationally, even what we can require of the data center, what we want as far as tax abatements and revenue and all the requirements. And it's been kind of cool to see. I don't know if they're still doing it, but for a while, other cities were meeting with our staff and going, hey, how did you guys do that? Because we want to kind of follow your guidelines or what you guys did in your agreement so that we protect our own residents and other cities. And so that was kind of cool to see. One, it's scary to be the guinea pig. And I tell my clients, don't ever be the guinea pig, but I was really proud of staff, both phase one and phase two of being the guinea pig, but doing it so well, coming out with an agreement that both, you know, was good for industry, but also protected Abel and I think was a nice, was a nice mix. What do you, so now in 2026, what is, if you were city manager three years ago, when this was just starting and knowing what you know now, what would you have advised or been a big point to city council then? What would you have either worn them about or kind of given them a heads up on, hey, we need either include this in the agreement or you need to prepare for this, this and this. What would you have told council three years ago? With the understanding that I have now. Yes. Yes. I think one is, you know, Virginia has been, is more advanced in their data centers than Texas. And we are really learning a lot from those facilities and those communities and counties. So I think that would be one thing is, hey, let's all load up and go look at one of these and a larger facility and learn from their county and their cities and their industry partners. Something else I would say clearly is, you know, the housing component. We did not, that was not part of our economic development incentive that they produce or provide a certain amount of temporary housing. I think that that would have been very important. And to help continue to protect the inventory in our city. For our existing residents, students, those looking to come work in other locations, I think it might be impossible to ask them to provide 100%. But I think if there was a certain volume that would be have been required, I think that that is certainly a point that I believe that we could have required. Another point I think is in regards to the types of training and job availability that they would provide now, I think this is a great, this is not a shortcoming because it's happening. But again, in part of these economic development agreements, ensuring that they are going to bring the training opportunities to your local community for them to work in the data centers, which is happening. Again, I want to brag on Oracle and Crusoe and OpenAI. They're already launching all of these kinds of academies and they want to hire local. So that's, again, I'm very proud of that. That provides the opportunity that we want. But if again, if you're wanting to make sure that you've got that good partnership, I would put it in agreement in advance. I think I saw in the news a couple of days ago that was at Google was committing several thousand dollars towards several million dollars towards TSTC towards that type of training. Yes, yes, I think so. You're right. There's so many stories that they can kind of all. Yeah. You know, inner inner inner mix in my in my brain. So that that's an important part. So yes, and the other is related, which is a significant investment in the community. I know that is something actually that other cities are starting to put in their economic development agreements as a way to make sure that those partners are showing the respect and the honor of the local community that they're coming into. I also can say that that is starting to happen here in Abelign as well. And some of those conversations are still behind closed doors. But to have that local investment, I think, is very important. They are going to generate a significant amount of tax dollars. And that's that's something we can talk about here in a few minutes. But beyond that, it's important that that the community feels like that they are also, if they don't work there, but that they're also receiving a benefit that this massive project has come to their backyard. Yeah. Well, and I think the the pendulum has swung a little bit again for that context. We were the first we wanted them to come for the for the revenue and for the jobs that it brought. Now, three years later, you have so many data centers popping up and you see the discussions of moratoriums or you see very aggressive cities going, all right, you can come here, but you're not getting a tax abatement at all or it's going to be a you know, a 50/50 or you're going to be able to as a city council push for you're going to have to do this certain amount of investment in the city like you were saying or this amount of investment into training. And so that's been an interesting shift to to see over the last three years of as communities go, do we want this or not? And if we do, if we allow you to come, you're going to have to do XYZ and so the bargaining power. is definitely, I think, shifted a little bit now. Ultimately, you see some of these counties try to do moratoriums and then they get hit with a hundred billion dollar lawsuit and you can't do that. But it has been interesting to see that shift in that. So water, this is obviously, I think, maybe after housing or maybe right up there with housing, the water question. So to put it in perspective, how much water does the data center use and you can break it down on a daily basis, annual basis, but in a context that like, whenever they start to talk an acre feet, they lose me 100% and I go, I don't understand any of that. So breaking it down and kind of easily understood terms. How much is this using in context of like, does it break into the top 20 top five users in the city? So we, I did request for some updated numbers because I knew we were going to get to have this conversation. And so the total number of gallons used in 2025 for the data center, the target data center is about a million gallons a month. So that is in comparison, some of our larger, one of our larger industrial water users is about nine million gallons a month. So just looking at total for industrial use, one million gallons a month versus nine million gallons a month. That was 2025. 2026 they have increased of course because they've got more buildings under construction and they're starting to fill more of their cooling systems. So at this point, 2026 they're averaging about three million gallons a month and a major industrial user over this same time period is it about 10 million. So you can see it's between nine and 10 million gallons a month for a major industrial user and the campus is one and three. So what we are waiting to see is the stabilized post construction numbers. So remember, these are when they're filling their cooling systems, sometimes they flush them a time or two. But once that the campus is completed as far as its construction is concerned, their per building volume of water will be about 100,000 gallons a year, which is about the same as an average household use. It's pretty impressive. So you've got 10 buildings equal to the average household use of about 10 single family homes. And then every now and then they'll need to recharge. Probably what they're saying is three to five years is when they may need to do the recharge. It's a million gallons for the cooling system for one building. And so the likelihood that they are going to fill all 10 at the same time would be at the most 10 million gallons and the total daily water use in Abelene is about 25 million. So even if they flushed all of their cooling systems at the same time and refilled them all at the same time, which they won't because that would shut down their operations, they would be using half of the water use for one day. So the nine million, I think you said three million per month and then a regular industrial user was around nine, 10 million per month. A regular industrial user would be like the hospital university, a soda distributor, those out there, those are using nine to 10 million gallons of water a month and the data centers only going to be using three million gallons a month. That's what they're using now. And again, that's because they're in the construction phase. So once they're out of the construction phase, it's 100,000 gallons a year. So that's like less than 10,000 gallons a month. So even worst case scenario, which is kind of what we're in right now. They're using three million. And then once they're completed, it drops down to 100,000 gallons a month. Is the projection a year a year a year? So that's mainly due to the closed loop system, which I think people have heard about. But that makes the difference between the really, I think most of them in West Texas are doing this, but certainly this one, which was in our discussions whenever they were coming forward. But you see in the news, oh, in Louisiana or Georgia, these data centers that are sucking in 20, 40 million gallons of water, you know, and it's causing massive problems. We're not having those issues because one, we had them on a closed loop system. It's more expensive for them to do. We don't, I don't care for that, but I'm glad that they, you know, that we, that we have them on a closed loop system. And so people talk about, oh, the water issues, you know, in some of these other states. But for us, at least as far as the Lansium one, the one that we had control over, they're closed loop system and they're going to be 100,000 gallons a year, which is what you say, 10, 10 houses a year. Correct. Yeah. So that's, that's pretty impressive. And I think I think we had these in-depth discussions on council over, over the three years of negotiation. And I think that was something that was obviously very important to council. And so I think that alleviated really a lot of our concerns as far as this project. I think where, and I will take part to blame for this is, is I think where we could have done a better job is to hit over and over again. How good of a system this will be and how this is not a concern water wise moving forward. And I think that I think, hopefully, you know, through the, through podcasts like this. And just over time, hopefully people will, it'll seep in the knowledge out there slowly of, hey, this is a different system than whatever they're working with in Georgia or Louisiana. These are the actual numbers you can feed into the fear or you can look at the actual numbers ago. Yeah, it's going to be 10 residential houses per year. Great. I mean, that's, that's amazing. So that, that I think is where you didn't have the, any kind of panic on the council side. But I think the flip side of that was we didn't feel the need, the drive, the like, oh, we've got to get out there ahead of this and explain it, which I think I could have done a better job. I think council as a whole could have done a better job because that, that is our job as council members to get out there and address the concern. So I would encourage any current city council members listening to this is to, you know, use your platforms to get the word out about how good, an effective water system that we have with this data center. So what are your thoughts then segueing to Cedar Ridge reservoir? Obviously that, you know, we have the one data center in city limits. So as we've been talking, we've got three, four of the data center, sweet water, you know, has approved one recently and that's about 40 minutes away as well. So we're looking at five data centers of varying sizes all within about 40 minutes of amyling. We can't control the other data centers. What? Close loop system they're on or how much water they use, etc. Those are left up to the county commissioners and the state of Texas. So we still have to address our water issues. So where does that leave abbling when it comes to long term water growth, planning and Cedar Ridge reservoir in particular? So the city council, as you know, has been looking at alternative water sources for decades, 25 years. And there are two different pathways that we are working on concurrently, which is the Cedar Ridge reservoir, which there has not been a reservoir permitted in the state of Texas in a long time. I don't have 40 years. I was going to say it's decades. I don't have that exact number, so I'm not going to say it. And it takes probably about 20 years to get through that process. However, we are in that process. In fact, we do have an executive session discussion with the council regarding some of our legal conversations about that this week. That is a monumental project. It would provide another alternative water source. And it wouldn't be just for the city of abbling because clearly a project of that magnitude we would have to have multiple partners. Number one to be able to afford it and to be able to share those resources. The other avenue is groundwater in the Fort Stockton area that the city of abbling is partnered with the city of San Angelo and Midland. It's called the West Texas Water Partnership. And we are looking at some groundwater resources that we could bring this way and co-op that as well. So those are two different avenues that have been in the works for many, many years. Of course, anytime you're talking about groundwater, there's litigation. So there's current litigation, no surprise, in that particular resource. So where we, when you ask about the urgency, I would say that the urgency isn't necessarily in the demand from the data centers because of knowing how much water they will actually use post-construction. It's more the general growth. And when you look at even another industrial water user, what if we get another food manufacturer or another major employer that requires significant water use? Hotels. When you think about, there's a lot of other business and commercial activity that requires significant water. beyond a data center. And then you have our general population growth as well. We want our universities to continue to be full and grow. And so all of these resources come into play. So the answer yes is we can never stop looking for water resources. I think what we will be learning in the next probably five to 10 years is the true cost of those additional water resources. Because no matter what angle we look at, we're talking about tens of millions of dollars. I'm sorry, hundreds of millions of dollars. I think the last I heard was 400 million on the Cedar Ridge Reservoir. Yes. Okay, this was two years ago. Yeah. And so those are definitely legacy generational decisions. And we have to have to remember we've got to continue to pursue them. But let's not panic. We still have the possum kingdom as a backup. And we're not even using that 16 million gallons a day that we've not even begin to bring into our water system. And how many do how many gallons a day do we use about 25 so it almost doubles. Not yes, yes. Yes. So from kind of this panic perspective, remember we've got another source that like you say you could bring in almost double of what we're currently normally using. And the concerns always about surface water is evaporation and rain. So even if we go build another reservoir, we are always still going to be subject to drought conditions. Yeah. So that's the other, I think consideration that we're having to weigh if we're even allowed to build it, which of course, we'll have to go through the permitting process with the state of Texas. And everyone downstream of us is going to protest. I think there was some hope a year and a half, two years ago when the Trump administration came back after Biden and they were, oh, maybe they'll be able to streamline the reservoir process and move this forward. And I don't know if that's changed anything at all. But one last question on this. So obviously we've got the one in city, the data center in city that we can control. And like we talked about its closed loop system, but there's four or five other data centers just within 40 minutes and then we have all of West Texas data centers. One, to your knowledge or most of those, if not all, closed loop system, or you don't know? To my knowledge, they are specifically the Shacklford, which is, which is the antige. They are, they are absolutely closed loop. Now to also clarify, they're the only ones that are using abelene source water. And I say that by sourced being they are actually a customer of hamburger. And hamburger is a customer of abelene. So, so of those data centers, the Shacklford County and the Stargate are the ones that are sourced by our abelene water resources. The state of Texas, as you know, is getting more and more aggressive about water resources and statewide water planning. That may actually become something that comes into play that is beneficial to abelene and our West Texas partners as well. If we're going to go out and spend, you use the number, $400 million, is that something then that our region partners with the estate, a statewide initiative so that we're actually maybe getting more for our money than what otherwise we could do for ourselves? So, I do think we're going to start seeing some of those more regional collective partnerships and hopefully some state money to help us with that. Well, and I've talked to our state senator Charles Perry about being on the show and he's up for it. It's going to be one of the things we talk about is the water but also his plan to pipe a lot of water to West Texas. So we'll look into the financials and the physical aspects of it as well. But it's definitely something that with the data centers but also just the growth in West Texas, whether it's Lubbock, Abelene, San Angelo, it's something that we have to always factor in. I would say people said water was king before and now it's kind of the God Emperor of everything. So, once this data center here in town finishes, which I think you said was end of 2027 projected. Yes, or early 28, yes. What is the projected long-term employment of how many they will employ here in city? So we hear the big numbers of 05, 7,000 temporary workers to build it. That's increasing our sales tax revenue, all that kind of good stuff. But once that's all finished, like all there's going to be 10 people out there and that's that and it will just be this hooking giant empty that doesn't provide any jobs. Realistically, there's the agreement of minimum amount of employees. But then realistically, that's just the minimum. What are they projected to employ? The numbers we have heard most recently is about 1,400 full-time employees. And so that's a significant employer for us. And many of those jobs are going to be highly skilled jobs as far as electricians and in your technical type positions. Think about the amount of computer equipment and cabling. That's going to be some highly technical jobs. However, like I mentioned before, we know that they're already doing some training and doing job fairs in our community to equip our residents. In fact, one of the meetings that we had with our partners, status and our partners, we were asking about credentials. And they were saying we can take a high school graduate and we can put them through our academy and they can be eligible to come work for us. So yes, there will be some highly specific, probably more academic requirements for some of the positions. But a lot of the positions can be available to our own community, which therefore drives our economic engine and provides opportunities, which is what we want for our residents. Speaking of the sales tax revenue, so those numbers have been really good. What is that number, how much additional sales tax has the city brought in this year? By the end of fiscal year 26, which is going to be September of this year, we anticipate about 21 million of surplus, we're calling it surplus sales tax because, as you recall, we did not budget for the total volume of sales tax we would be receiving because we knew we couldn't count on it for the coming years. So we are looking at about 21 million. And sometimes people get lost in all the tax nuances, let's say, but it's important to keep in mind that there's two potential revenue streams and they'll fluctuate to varying degrees, but you have the property tax, which is the real estate out there. That was the abatement. And then the sales tax, which is a separate revenue stream, comes in and obviously that's going to fluctuate depending on construction to much larger degree, I would assume. So on the property taxes first, that revenue stream, what is that projected to bring in for the city of Abeling on an annual basis once it's finished? Do we have a number of ballpark? We're working on that. So part of that is because it isn't completely built out. And so at this point, we're all, that they're basically just guesses and projections. However, what we do have is we have their taxable valuation as of January 1 of 2026, which will be used for the tax values for next fiscal year. That value is significant. It was about a 30% increase to our total tax rolls. I want to just keep reminding you though and others that that again, we're considering one time because back to this complicated property tax situation, new values are not part of the 3.5% tax cap of new revenue. So we're able to see those total new values come into our tax revenues for this coming fiscal year. After that, they will be subject to the 3.5% tax cap. And that is also when we expect our abatements to begin and go into effect. So the council's also asked us to look at the property tax revenues from the data center in a bifurcated way, like the sales tax, which is what is going to be considered non-reoccurring versus reoccurring. At this point, the non-reoccurring we expect to be about 20, 25 million. And so we are going to be identifying those as non-reoccurring funds. I know that we talk about it and the council is one time. Yeah. It could be a two time. It could get another good year. Yeah. It's all dependent on there are so many variables. This calculation has been a challenge. It's a big puzzle because the other part about the valuations is a significant, the most valuable part of the real of the advalorem taxes is the value of the personal equipment. So the PPE, no, that's personal protective equipment. Sorry. Wrong. Business personal property. Yes, the BPP. Sorry, I have my acronyms wrong. The BPP. That is significant because of all the new equipment in inventory. That has a very quick depreciation life. And so after three years or so, it will be replaced. It's not it is not accounted for at full value when you replace equipment like you would have additional value if you added say an expansion or another building. So BPP is going to be a big part of this equation that until we see those cycles of replacement or not sure how much to count on. So I know you asked for a short answer but I did not give that to you. I think what we're looking at is probably about 50 million five over five over four combining sales tax and property tax that we are saying it's going to be basically the the ship that came in that the proverbial ship that came in but it is not here to stay. And so at that point we do expect about a four million annual increase to what we will be receiving through property taxes after this construction period is over once everything is built out once there's no more construction sales tax we're estimating about four million a year to the city from the property taxes. So it's a big bump at the beginning sales tax and new value property tax coming in in the first year or two let's say you're saying will be around 50 million over the next two years. Over the next two years right and then after that annually the city will be getting about four million for the next eight eight nine years until the abatement's end and then it's and then what happens at the end of ten years total abatements. After that we do have a second ten year abatement but the only values that would be abated is new value so if they have expanded the campus even even further added other buildings abatements are only applicable to new value. So that abatement would be much at this time I would expect it to be much less impactful unless they go in and build a lot of other new structures. Well I think that helps people one visualize it okay of the next two years sales tax property tax will get maybe 50 million and then it levels off at four million it illustrates also two things one data centers aren't getting a free ride we're getting massive amount of economic activity but also revenue that we can plug back into the city for whatever needs we have but also two that long term over the next eight ten years there's there's steady growth but also it highlights the challenge that that you guys on city staff have to plan of how do you go from you know no revenue to oh it's being constructed 50 million and then not use that not count on that for the next ten twenty years you get a nice boom and then you're back down to four million which is still a nice bump but it's nowhere near the four the 50 million and so financially planning your five ten year plan over that is is difficult but you also have the additional economic activity people are being employed you know they'll still be I would say a bump in in sales tax and one people and one thing that people forget and this was before you you got here twenty early twenty twenty four our sales tax were cratering we had to do a hiring freeze we had that's why we combined the the construction of both wreck centers to save a million dollars we were in dire straits and it wasn't just us it was across the state but our economy our sales tax was was drastically going down and with this data center coming in online construction wise later that year twenty twenty five that has been a huge shot in the arm and so people forget and they may not have been aware of it but our economy locally and statewide was was dipping hard and we were having to do some real tough decisions and so for for us to be in a position now I just remind people I would much prefer to have these pains and challenges than where we were two years ago when our economy was was dropping and people were you know we were doing hiring freeze and it was it was looking grim and so it I'd much prefer to have these these problems now with the additional revenue so let's say what was it twenty one million from sales tax this year kind of that one time one time bum maybe you'll maybe you'll get another bump next year but you're counting on just one what are you recommending to counsel that they spend it on and you guys just had a budget just budget discussion few weeks back what's kind of the thinking of how to spend that so we're looking at those what we're calling one time revenues through the lens of the council's priorities which you were able to be a part of that the five priorities are infrastructure sustainable growth community engagement housing and operational excellence and so there's a lot of capital when we look at that just infrastructure that the sustainable growth priority was in regards to continuing to expand and create our our park spaces our community facilities to be updated and can be able to grow with our community so if in case their listeners don't really identify what sustainable growth is it's our ability to continue to maintain what we have and increase that so those are what we're considering buckets if you will of a priorities for the council which reflect the priorities of our citizens and by buckets you mean you have a certain number of buckets that you can so throw only a certain amount of money and precisely and and some of those buckets need more filling than others and that's kind of the imagery that that that we brought to the council in our budget workshop so we already are creating we have a list that we're adding to probably daily it's up to about two hundred and forty five million dollars so we will not have any shortage of opportunities or so 50 million sounds like a lot of money but we're really wanting to focus on and based on again council's direction about deferred maintenance and infrastructure we want to make sure that we're using this opportunity to look at what needs restoration for example so many of our park spaces our restrooms our concession stands our ball field fencing forty fifty years old yeah things that of that nature they they need repair they need full-sale replacement those are hard to do in a normal budget cycle and so having these funds that to look at what are in our existing assets in our inventory that our community uses on a regular basis that just is worn out walking trail at rose I know that you rose park you've heard about that from the council chambers when you start adding up some of these things you know that's a one point five million dollar walking trail so that is a way that we can we're taking inventory of our existing assets buildings roofs H-backs those are not near as exciting I realized to the public but we want to make sure that the public sees the impact roads we could spend every penny on roads and that would be incredible we also want to make sure though that we are diversifying this investment in ways because it is an opportunity it's an opportunity for us to be able to make these investments in the community in a way that there is not having to be a bond past yeah yeah I think it's you know you could look at a boil we throw it into something and it sustains us or you throw it into things that elevate us to a different level in whatever area and that brings in new growth or new revenue that we're able to continue to kind of grow overall one thing I think it came out a few days ago and it was a bad headline I forget who it was one of the local ones about city reduces the street budget yes it was a completely erroneous headline yeah what one how frustrated do you get with let's say clickbait headlines and then two what would you say to that of people are going oh I hear city has got a lot of good new revenue oh they're reducing the city street budget what where's the disconnect what would you say to that I would say yes that is exceptionally frustrating we are constantly looking for ways to communicate more clearly and we do have some great ideas I think we're going to start doing sessions like this produced by the city where we can have our our street department come in and talk about our roads and how we determine quality and and replacement schedules and because there is that desire for the public to understand when there's a headline like that and we there was another headline last week as well that said that our our water rates were going to go at five to 44% and that that also was a confusion between nice being on this side that city council they're the worst so so I think because what we do is complex and someone who may not live it every day I can see where it can be easily confused so so what I would say to that as far as the street maintenance and the budget no we we did not cut we did not reduce what happens what happened this particular year is we have the Maple Street project which has been going on for for two years or three years already and and the inflation of that project and the amount of time that it's taking is going to be more than what we had the bond funds to pay for it. So we made a commitment to the residents and the citizens to do maple that entire stretch and it's costing almost double than what we anticipated. And so we've got to finish funding that and so that's why we're using the street maintenance dollars. - So it's not that the budget is being reduced is that more of that same budget is going towards one project more than it was initially projected. - Yes, it's that, it's if it's Griffith Road which was part of the city's commitment to the Bass Probe development is that we would expand and rebuild that Griffith Road stretch. So the city has made commitments about some road work and we are including those streets in that budget and so what that has done is in essence then reduce the amount that would be spent on neighborhood streets. So we're going to talk about that with the council and see do we necessarily have to spend it that way or do we use some of these one time funds to do Griffith Road or some of these others so that we're still making progress in our neighborhoods the way we want to. - We've had a lot of big, we'll call them, sexy projects over the last three, four years kind of come to fruition, oh, kind of at the same time between AYSA, a lot of these are public private partnerships where the private sector donates 10 million and the city throws in money as well and it makes this massive beautiful project. So we've got AYSA, the two rec centers, we have the Cypress Plaza. I know I'm forgetting one or two, oh the Cedar Creek Waterway, all these kind of things, they're visual, they're tangible, they're beneficial, people can go off, theirs abling getting better. - Yes. - With this influx of, let's say 21 million, it seems like the thinking now is shifting more to, all right, we've got enough of the big tangible, I don't say flashy projects, but the headline, producing ones, now let's use it towards the unsexy ones, behind the scenes ones, it's the sewer lines, it's the water lines, it's the whatever that we'll never see until unless they break. Is that kind of the thinking? And if so, what is one project you would tell residents out there, hey, you're not gonna see this, it's not gonna be the AYSA building, saying we're a new animal shelter, but this is a must have that we've got to address, it's gonna soak up millions, but we've got to do it. Because these are general fund dollars, which you know are sales tax and property tax, I think we need to spend them towards those departments that are in the general fund, which is gonna be for infrastructure, gonna be primarily, that's gonna be our streets. But I think what people don't realize is in addition to roadways, we have culverts, we have bridges, we have street signs, we do have some underground storm drains, those are the things that we don't really recognize that is part of all the traffic division. We also have needs for traffic synchronization, so that replacing our traffic systems, our signaling systems, so that we can have more flow of traffic more seamlessly so that they're synchronized. That is visible, but it's probably something people don't really notice, hey, if we had a greater investment in our traffic systems, we could get through town even faster, and you know that the synchronization piece of being able to flow people through, which growing cities, i.e. Abilene don't really know that they need these things until they start to grow. And then suddenly you're like, how, why am I stopped at three lights on my way to work? - Yeah, I would say that's probably the most, other than housing, et cetera, in the water concerns. I would say most people complain about now for the last year or so, the traffic takes me six minutes to get home when it took me four minutes, three years ago, or now I have to wait in line at my favorite restaurant. - Yes. - That's a good problem to have for that restaurant on or anyway, but I understand, so that's good that is the subtle behind the scenes decisions that hey, maybe this will alleviate traffic on your route home. Seeing the tangible benefits is one thing. So shifting gears a little bit, two or three more questions. On the, I've addressed this issue on the news and I know the council has as well many times, but I didn't wanna let you go without addressing it. So there's an ongoing meet and confer, unionization dispute between the city and the fire department. Now this is kind of all pending, so you are somewhat limited in what you can say, so I just wanna let the listeners know that some things can't be said, but what would you like the listeners out there that are hearing this, seeing this in the news? What's kind of your word to them on? This is where we are, this is where we're headed. What do you say about that? - I think I would not use the word dispute really. I think what happened was a threshold that the council and the city were willing to offer in new pay raises over the next term of a contract versus what was desired by the association. And both basically had their line. And so because of that, we were not able to come to agreement. We, as you know, the Firefighters Association is putting together a petition and we'll be bringing that before the council soon for them to go to the voters for collective bargaining, which is chapter 174. It's a different form of negotiating than meet and confer. The more that I have studied and learned about this, I do believe that if the voters pass it, we can work with it because it still requires the city and the Fire Association to come together and have dialogue about paying benefits. The primary difference is that if we don't reach resolution, like what happened in 2026, that there is further steps to require us to meet resolution. So it's not just left at a stalemate, if you will. So I do think that with more time and discussions, we can come to agreement. That is my hope. - So council and on the fire, I was on city council at that time, so I'm very aware of that process. And I think my hope is that it gets resolved well. But it does illustrate that council, and any council can get caught up in very reactive decisions, very, if really every government is reacting to peer pressure, or problem rises to a certain level, and then government has to react, whether it's federal, state, or city. It's a, by nature, it's a very reactive. It's very rare for a government to be proactive and generally they get it wrong when they are proactive or we don't want it. So you're constantly just reacting to problems and solving them. Where do you see, so it's kind of, I think I use the analogy in my going away speech of city council was, it's kind of like walking through a forest, and it's not just losing track of the forest, it's getting hit in the face with a branch at every step, and you still need to one see the problem, the trees, but you also need to see the bigger picture of the forest, and then the goal of wherever you're trying to get to, whether it's part of the forest, or further past the forest, whatever that, that imaginary goal is, and it's hard because you're getting hit in the face with a branch every second. So where do you see abbling headed? Basically in 10 years, once we get through all the rent prices, increases, and the traffic briefly got up, or we see these challenges of the next two, three years, and we're seeing an increase in revenue, the good and the bad, we're navigating it all, we want to get through this all, it's all for the good to get to, and it's not at end goal, but it's the next waypoint in 10 years. What do you see abbling? What are we shooting for to get through these challenges? Why not stay the same? Why not stay how we were four years ago before all the data centers, and before all this came here, what are we now shooting to be in 10 years? In your mind, a city manager of abbling. - I can see it being incredible, because what I am seeing and experiencing is people know abbling, they've heard of abbling, they don't quite know what to attach it to, because we are a little more remote, we are not in the hub of any other metro areas. So I go, "Oh yeah, yeah, abbling." And tell me again about abbling. And I don't mean this region, the greater United States and beyond. What abbling now has is household name recognition. - It's true, yeah. - And when the data center is complete, and when we have 1,400 or however many high tech jobs, and we have this ancillary ripple effect of professionals wear housing. There's gonna be a multiple type of infrastructure of workforce support for this industry. We will be able to see Abeling continue to mature into a city that has a great diversity of workforce options that has a renewed and refreshed housing inventory that has updated parks and public facilities. And all of a sudden, people are gonna say, what is going on in Abeling? I hear they've got great universities there. We've got a little bit of land, you can see the stars. And what we will see is people who enjoy our culture and our heritage of West Texas, our community mindedness, our love for each other as neighbors and friends. People are hungry to live in a city that cares for each other. And that's Abeling. So if they can come and move their families here and have a great educational experience for them and meaningful work in a community that's beautiful and has a great calf downtown festival and a library and name all these things, we're gonna grow because people are gonna love Abeling. - Yeah, I agree. I think I've been in his episode, he talked about living in San Diego with his family and they moved back to Abeling to raise a family. And so many of my friends have done the same. They move back or they're okay, we wanna raise our family in a good city. And it's nice that we have the amenities but we also are just two hours away from Fort Worth. If you wanna go to a bigger city, you can jump over there real fast. So on a personal note for you, getting into government is basically you just wanting to solve problems, put out fires, right? It's not a glamorous job. It's not a, most of the time I would say it's probably a thankless job from the general public anyway. But it's putting out fires over and over again. It's not for residents out there. If they have a problem, they go and they may take them one meeting, it may take them three months, it may take them a year to get whatever that problem is fixed but eventually hopefully it's fixed. And then they're done, right? They're gone, local governments out of sight, out of mind, they move on with their lives. Whereas for you and staff and counsel as well, but for you, it's fixed that problem. There's 18 other problems today that I'm working on. I've fixed one of those. Now I have 17 but three more added on. So there's never a point where in government at any level where you go, all the problems are solved. And I am good to go for the next year. We solved all the bad problems. Now it's only good. Now it's only fun. It's just problem after problem after problem. It's people coming to you with complaints. It's kind of like working in the airline lost luggage department. I would say you're never dealing with people on a good day. They're always coming to you with complaints. How do you, first, how do you deal with that? And then two, how do you stay motivated to keep doing that over and over again? And three, how do you just not come to dread talking to people because you know 90% of the time it's going to be a complaint. How do you deal with it? So that's a very complex question. I'll start at the micro level. I like to remind myself that I'm having interactions with people, not transactions. You transact objects. You interact with people. And so whoever I'm interacting with, this is a unique experience for them. It's a personal, they are personally affected in some form or fashion. It's important to them. And so it is my responsibility to show that person the value and respect that this is a problem to them. And they're coming to us for help. So that's a reframing of my mind and perspective. And I literally have to tell myself sometimes when I read the email or someone's on hold, I'm like, this is an interaction. There's a human on the other side of this that I have the opportunity to help. The other is I like to also substitute the word puzzle for problem because puzzles can be challenging and hard, but they also have solutions. And that's, like you said, that's pretty much all we do is we put puzzles together. And sometimes we have to take a little bit of time to find all the missing pieces and fit them together. But that also helps me not dread. Because I like-- I'm the one at Christmas. So he wants to pull out the puzzle and sit at the card table and no one else wants to do puzzles with me. So that helps as well. Because then your attitude and your energy is just zapped before you even begin. So that's also another little reframing thing that I do in my head. The bigger picture, kind of the elevated piece of this, is I have to know that this is a calling that I have, and that it is worth my investment. And so I do see it as a calling. It's-- city management is one of the most ancient professions when you really think about it. There have been city leaders, community leaders, since the time that people began to assemble. I am part of this legacy of leadership who gets to enhance people's lives and help them be safe and sound. And that is the elevated perspective that I have to remind myself because it's not always fun. But when we look back and we see what we've been able to do in these big, fun legacy projects, like you've mentioned. But we provide clean water for people to drink every day. We take away refuse and trash. And when you think about even these basic daily services, we are helping people live quality, healthy lives. And that is something we cannot forget. Because the work of the city and the work of the public servant is an instant incredible ministry. People are able to not have to worry about so many things and they can focus on loving their kids and being healthy and getting an education because they don't have to worry about what are they going to do with their trash and how are they going to get water and somebody going to get sick because we don't have sanitary sewer. Those are super basic things that most people probably don't think about every day. But that is part of my why. I get to be a part of every single residence life every day. And that's an honor. That was a great answer. That is a great answer. And I'm not even going to have a follow up question because I think that's a great place to end on a very uplifting and powerful calling. I had never looked at city managers as harkening back to ancient Greece or Roman times, but you're right. I mean, they have navigated and steered civilization for thousands of years, taking care of all the problems behind the scenes. So that was a great visual. Thank you for that. We'll end on that now. Emily, thank you for being on. I enjoyed it. Thank you.