EMERGENCY POD: NBA Announces Clippers’ Punishments After Kawhi Probe Reaction

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And, you know, you didn't even have to go through any loops to deliver. Well, we have a serious topic on the podcast, but I'll just tell you that in a fascinating thing, Jackson, McMahon ordered a dish at this restaurant. And then the waiter was like, you don't want that dish. You want this dish. And McMahon was like, okay. I think it was a strange piece. I would not have, you know, had the guts as a waiter. To tell this man his business, but he listens to the waiter like that. And he never listens to me like that. That's what I'm saying. He never met this man before. The guy had made us wait 30 minutes to order practically. And then he comes over and he's like, no, you don't want that. I don't know. He never listens. He suggested the salmon. And as you know, Wendy, that's usually where I go anyway. So, yeah. Well, speaking of waiting a long time to get the results. How about that? That was the best I could do. Smooth. To move into the news of the day, week, month, maybe even longer. Off-season? Possibly. Yeah. The NBA comes down with its ruling against the Clippers today. I'm sure you know it by now. It's crushing. It's a crushing penalty. It's as close to the SMU death penalty as you get in the NBA. I don't know if it's a death penalty. I said it's as close. Yeah. I mean, they didn't give them a post-season ban, but everything but that. So there's multiple layers here. I think I'm going to try to do it in three. Who knows if we can keep this organization. But there's the details of the report itself, which this report, for being a legal document, whoever wrote it has some writing background. I mean, it's not going to rival Wright-Thompson. It's not going to rival, you know, Ernest Hemingway. But from a legal standpoint, this is a narrative document. Easy reading. Unless you're a Clippers fan. Right. Well, if you're a Clippers fan, I don't even know how you get through it. So the details in here are pretty crushing. There's the actual fight that is now going to happen between the Clippers and NBA. As much as the Clippers can fight, I don't know if they're going to be able to. And then there's three, what's going to be in the future for the Clippers, I think. So I don't know where you want to start, McMahon, but the details are pretty savage. The initial big scoop by Pablo Torre was, hey, there's this really shady deal that's a pretty easily traceable to the Clippers thing with Kawhi getting $28 million from Aspiration and then there was like, oh, plus there was $20 million in equity, which obviously ended up being worthless. And then months later it came out, oh, by the way, there was another deal with Daktronics. So the Daktronics thing, not to cut you off, as soon as the Daktronics thing, that, I think I said it on the pod, like, that felt like a straight kickback. And, oh, by the way, the league says halfway there, there were two more. There was Boingo and what? Lockton. I think it is some insurance company. Yeah, Lockton Insurance Company, which. And those deals, they had a bunch of documentation. They had a bunch of, I mean, the president of business operations here is all over this thing. Like, she is. Well, yeah, I think if you want to say a headline on this, I hate to, here we go. $18 million in kickback deals plus the Aspiration deals. We're already meandering. But I would say the headline is Steve Ballmer was not accused of much direct wrongdoing. He was accused, or maybe even, I guess you could say convicted, basically, of lack of institutional control. They basically said, you should have known, and we think you kind of did know. They don't really accuse him. Well, the exact language of the NBA's press release is, Ballmer is suspended from all league and team activities for one year for knowingly seeking to help Mr. Leonard obtain off-court income opportunities for approving a business deal that he knew was a pre-conflict. Pre-condition for Aspiration to enter into an endorsement agreement with Mr. Leonard and for his failure to create conditions under which his organization abided by the NBA's circumvention rules. Yeah, so the third one, yeah, the third one is the all-encompassing one. Well, and, listen, the simple fact of the matter is, this ain't the first time Steve Ballmer's pulled some of this shady stuff. That did not help his case. They gave him a little slap on the wrist for the DeAndre Jordan stuff in 2015, a $250,000 fine that was, oh, whoops, we didn't know. And then, you know, there's the investigation after the Kawhi signing because, guess what, it's not like Uncle Dennis only asked the Clippers for a whole bunch of under-the-table stuff. He was asking everybody for under-the-table stuff. Oh, geez, you know, we were asked, but we didn't, you know, we didn't give him anything. And now this. So they're, in a way, they're three-time losers. That's true. Julian Zucker. They call her essentially a liar. Yeah. An obfuscator, a rule-breaker. They implicate indirectly her husband. She was suspended without pay for a year for being primarily and directly culpable for the impermissible endorsement arrangements and for providing false and misleading statements to investigators. Yeah. She, and if you read the report, they destroyed. Destroy her. Like I said, she's the star of the report. Yeah. They basically indicate that she directed it, that she basically asked for these, I mean, you know, the report basically. That she directed it and then very clumsily attempted to cover up for it in emails by acting like, oh, we're just connecting after all the connecting behind the scenes had been done and they uncovered it. So what the, the Clippers put out a statement and basically what it looks like. Like is that the Clippers are not denying that these endorsement deals happened. They're not denying that Kawhi got this money. They're not denying that these are companies. I mean, Boingo Wireless does advertise, but they don't advertise. They've never advertised with NBA endorsers that I'm aware of. There's also the little thing of typically when you sign a guy to a multimillion dollar endorsement deal, he actually endorses something. Well, that's, well, there's, there's some asterisks is in there that he did do a thing or two, but they can wiggle out of that. Like they can wiggle out of that circumstantially, but obviously if you were on a jury, you would convict. There's a preponderance of evidence. If you were on a jury, you would convict. And so, um, what the Clippers vehemently reject the NBA's findings, which are the result of a heavily biased investigation to, and honestly, they're throwing mud. Mud at each other that, that, uh, statement that the Clippers put out, even though it was written with more control, gave me flashbacks to Dan Gilbert's letter when LeBron left. Yeah. And there's that statement. There's the, the letter that the lawyer sent to, uh, the commissioner that the Clippers also put out there. We're all over the place. Just let's move backwards. Move backwards. Okay. I'm sorry. It's both of our fault. It's both. It's mostly Jackson's fault. It's your fault. This is the argument that, that is, is, is the, the basis of the disagreement. Okay. The Clippers are saying that, yeah, these companies did business with Kawhi, but we are allowed to introduce companies if the companies want to meet him or if Kawhi wants to meet him. And the NBA is saying, here's the million and six ways that you violated the rules. Exactly. So there's, there's legal. There's the legal argument. And I don't want to get into this, but I'm just going to say what it is. The legal argument is an affirmative versus responsive. But basically if Kawhi were to say to the Clippers, I would really like to meet the people from Daktronics. I think I could do great work for them, uh, uh, endorsing their product. The Clippers would say, oh, well, let's get you together for a zoom call with their president. Um, or if Daktronics said, Hey, we think that. Kawhi is a dynamic guy. We love the way he looks on our scoreboards. Can you get us in touch with him? And we can do a deal. The Clippers are saying that that's what they did, that they acted as the middleman and they operated within the rules. And the league is saying, not only did you not do that, you tried to cover it up and you flagrantly didn't do that. And they got all kinds of stuff from Clippers employees saying this stuff's got red flags all over it. They've got the order of operations in terms of this Zucker lady setting everything up and then sending emails acting like that was the introductory email. I mean, listen, the Clippers statement is basically who you're going to believe, me or your lying eyes and ears. Right. And so a big factor that was going, it's like, we've got to get a Kaminga reference. It's like the part-time podcast guest who represents Kaminga on the side. I don't want to talk about that. Let everybody else talk about that. At a certain point, when you screw up royally, you should shut up. That's the advice I would give Aaron Turner and the L.A. Clippers. All right. I would agree with that. I think the Clippers should accept this penalty. And I think they got off relatively easy. And I'll explain that in a minute. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is necessary. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. 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The Clippers have had a tool in this. And the tool was that they were building this arena. Okay. So because you're building this arena and they were doing business with a whole bunch of extra companies, extra vendors. It had all these different pathways that they could look essentially potentially for partnerships, you know. And so, you know, Daktronics, you're not buying $100 million. You're buying $100 million worth of Daktronics stuff every year. But when you're building your arena, you are. And Daktronics. And, you know, this is one thing that Pablo's, you know, I felt the most, in all honesty. And you can go back and listen to the podcast I did afterwards. I felt the most compelling thing. Pablo breaking the story was amazing. He's already won a Pulitzer and a Murrow Award. Like, he's, you know, it's gone great for him. But the Daktronics thing, to me, really was a huge thing from my perspective. Because. That was just a grade-A kickback. And so, because they were building that arena. And here's the other thing. Daktronics, very clearly, like, the investigators don't quote the people. You know, you're trusting Wachtell Lipton to a certain degree. But considering you're putting this against a man with over $100 billion, I find their credibility reasonable. I would find them reasonable. But Daktronics. Daktronics does business with virtually every NBA team. They intend to do business, I assume, with many NBA teams into the future. They were highly, highly incentivized to do two things. One, they were highly incentivized to do this deal with the Clippers. Because as Pablo did in his reporting and Hunter Brook Media, they were in partnership there. They pointed out that Daktronics had hit a rough patch and really kind of needed the deal. I mean, anybody could use a $100 million order. But in that particular point, their finances were struggling. So, they needed to do it. And it's, I mean, the details in this report make it clear that Daktronics basically opened up and said what happened. Yeah, well, which is going to be tough because I don't know if Daktronics is going to be able to put in the massive TV that Ballmer's going to need in his house next season to watch the Clippers game. I would say not. And so, and this insurance company, Lockton Insurance, I believe they, you know, did the insurance for the construction of the Clippers. They did the insurance for the construction of the building. And obviously, a lot of wireless is needed in a new building. So, that, you know. And who doesn't need some trees outside? Well, and that's another thing that's just really tough in there. So, I really kind of want to, and even in the opening paragraphs of the report, Wachtell Lipton lawyers basically say, we know that this Joe Sandberg guy who was running Aspiration and is now in a federal penitentiary, we know he's not credible. And so, we were very cautious. Yeah. And so, this report is not based on what he said, totally. But they have stuff in there from him. And, you know, there was, they basically lay out that they, that the Clippers wanted to do a carbon credit deal. By the way, this carbon credit thing, with all due respect to the environment, I'm, I want to help the environment just as the next guy. But this carbon credit thing is a scam from day one, which is a whole other topic. Clearly, the guy's sitting in the pokey right now. I mean, like. The one defense that I heard on the Clippers that made sense to me, because I'm all about what makes sense, was that this guy was running a Ponzi scheme, selling carbon, freaking carbon credits, whatever that means, and that he needed to keep Ballmer's investment going. And so, he paid off Kawhi Leonard to keep Ballmer's investment going. It was a Ponzi scheme. That was actually a defense that I could understand. I thought, I honestly thought everything that's come out of the Clippers mouth. Now, since this started, has been extremely flimsy, and it keeps getting less and less believable. Man, I got to tell you, man. I said this to you. Again, I keep referring to this, this podcast that we did after Daktronics. I had friends swear to me that this was bunk. I've talked to Clippers people, too, who lied to my face. I mean, I talked to Steve. I talked to Steve. I mean, I get. There was one moment before a Clippers game this year where. But people wouldn't come up and talk to him. Like, Steve would come out before Clippers games for years, and you could just go up and talk to him. Frankly, a lot of times I talked to him about golf. Shocker. Okay. I am stunned by that. You talking to a rich guy about golf? I can't imagine. And I was talking to him, and we were talking about the investigation, and he said, they can't prove. I knew. I didn't know. They can't prove it. Nah. Well. And, you know, he was. It gets back to lack of institutional control, and honestly, how did you not know? And by the way, all these penalties we're talking about, it's at least five first round picks. It's at least $30 million. Because one very important line here, Wachtell Lipton continues to receive information relevant to the investigation, and the league will consider further action as appropriate. So this, this might just, like, they might keep stacking stuff on, just like all the. Companies started, like, it went from one to two. Now it's four. Like, and the league's basically saying, hey, we might just be getting started here. But, look, they had to come to, they needed a conclusion for the simple fact that a massive trade was being held up. Okay. Well, let's talk about that. So the Clippers put out, the Clippers put out two statements tonight. One was a public-facing statement, and one was a letter to Adam Silver where it was illegal. You know, in a lawyerly way, it was a borderline rant. Yeah. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't exactly the Dan Gilbert thing, which was a grade-A rant. But this was a legal rant. It was, wow, wow, wow, you're not being fair. Yeah. Basically, it was like, you treated us poorly. And at one point, there was, like, something, and they were like, to what end? Question mark. Like, you know, like, they were. Yeah. Sort of yelling at him. It was totally ridiculous. But in there, in this thing, they basically. They basically say, we're going to try every legal avenue we can to fight this. They basically are like, we're going to fight. And my guess is that the fight is going to be over the words affirmative and responsive. But let me tell you something. Here's my unsolicited advice to the Clippers organization. Accept the penalty and ask for one provision, that no more penalties are levied. Yeah. I would say cut your losses would be wise. And I'm going to give you a couple of reasons why. Number one, they have not said it's impossible to still do this Kawhi trade. Kawhi put out a statement, which, by the way, Kawhi's statement, as an aside, has a. absolute, incredible line in it. I mean, I'd like to break down the Kawhi statement just as a real quick thing. Hey, I wrote a haiku that summarizes it. Well, let's go through it first, and you can save it until the end. This is Kawhi's statement. Integrity and respect for this game are fundamental to who I am. That is absolutely never going to be true again. I mean, this is an all-time great whose career has been tainted by shadiness for years now. Go on. I accept full responsibility. Okay, now the statement's improving. Wait, for what? For lapses in judgment. Okay, he's moving a little bit away. Okay, go on. I accept full responsibility for lapses in judgment by people within my inner circle. Oh. Kawhi didn't know. Where's this? We've got 18 million here. There's 28 million here. Boy, where's all this coming from? Like, the first four words are pretty good. Then the next, like, seven words. No, no, for lapses in judgment. Oh, well, judgment, okay. Lapses implies, like, only partial blame, but we're okay by people within my inner circle. And regret. The distraction, the situation has caused the fans, and my family. What about the Clippers? I'm just going to say 18. You've been an absolute disaster. By the way, what about the Raptors, who you left because you got a shady deal with the Clippers? Well, that's what he says. He says a bunch of other stuff. I don't really care about any of it. But he says, his last sentence is, as I return to Toronto, which is basically like, by the way, I'm going to Toronto, and I'm going to get paid. We're going to talk about the Kawhi part about this in a minute. As I return to Toronto, I am focused. I am focused on what? What I can control. Closing this chapter, and I'm moving forward with a clean slate. It's behind me. Don't bring it up again. Hey, 700 grand? Here you go. Shoot, that's, I mean. We'll get to that. He's still up what? Dude, let me do the math. 45.3 million. So, my haiku. Whoops. My bad, Kamish. It's all Uncle Dennis' fault. On to Toronto. My God. We had a poet and didn't know it, Jackson. Dude, I won a poetry contest. And I think it was third grade, which is also the year that I got busted lying about Jim McMahon being my uncle. But anyways, not that my integrity is not a tough approach. He is no longer band McMahon. He's the bard of the Hoop Collective. That's pretty good. The 5-7-5, boom, boom, boom. I want to glaze it onto a plate and put it behind you on your mantle there. We can put it on a plate and present it to Kawhi when he returns to the Intuit. Oh, he can put it on a plate. Put it right next to the plant. Remember the guy gave him the plant in Toronto when he won the title? All right. Here is why I think the Clippers should seriously consider dropping whatever appeal they've got, which is, you know, Steve Ballmer is worth $100 billion in angry, and you're not going to tell him what he's going to do. So, good luck. I understand they're not going to do this, but I'm going to make a case, my own case now. If they are allowed to do this trade, which I checked on this, and basically I was told they can, you know, the Raptors and Clippers, if they want, can bring the trade to the league to get it done. They basically said, go through the process. They didn't say no. Okay. Okay. Now, if I were the Raptors, I would consider trying to alter the terms of this trade because the Clippers are in a really tough position, and we're going to watch that going forward. But the Raptors are not exactly looking forward to welcoming Brandon. It's not like Brandon Ingram would come back. Yeah, no, the Raptors are in a tough spot either, or as well. And the best thing here for Kawhi, for the Raptors, and frankly, for the Clippers, is there's no suspension for Kawhi. So you don't have to, like, if it's a 20-game suspension, then you're talking about, okay, well. Trivia question, McMahon. What were the Timberwolves, what was their penalty in 2000 when the Joe Smith salary cap circumvention happened? Five first-round picks, originally. And? That's a big word. Glenn Taylor was suspended. McHale was suspended. No, no, hold on. Oh, the contract was nuked. Originally. The contract was nuked. And the contract was nuked. They no longer had the player. Right. And that would have been either, yeah, nuking their last year of the contract, even like a lengthy suspension would have been a real problem as far as his trade. That's right. So they, Kawhi is free to be, to my knowledge, and, you know, Kawhi is free to be traded. With a clean slate, he says. And they're going to get him. They're going to get two first-round picks for him. Assuming that the deal is. And by the way, the two first-round picks, those are the only two first-round picks they own that don't have swap rights attached to them now. They're unprotected picks in 29 and 31. Because as we said, they've lost picks from 29 to 33. The 29 pick that got taken away was the Indiana pick. Right. So they have, all they have left in their draft, first-round draft coffers. Now, is this year's pick, which is going to be swapped to either Denver or OKC, whichever's worse. That ain't going to be a good pick. But still, they're going to have a pick in the 2027 draft, which they can trade. I agree, it's probably not going to be a good pick. And then they've got a Philly swap in 29. That one's a top three protected, but we'll see where Philly is. I'm just saying. But then these Toronto picks are the only ones that they would have that aren't like swap rights with the team that's. Right. But you're like, you're saying, only like it's not like they're still going to, if they accept this penalty and the Kawhi trade goes through, they're still going to have four first-round picks. Yeah. They're still going to have them. Now, they can't trade them, those other picks, because you get into. Yeah, it's every other. You get into stepping rule. But it's not, it's not like they're not going to have a pick. Unless the other thing is, the other thing is, they are extremely lucky. They are extremely lucky that this investigation dragged and wasn't considered before this year's draft. And before they agreed to the Kawhi trade. Yeah. Okay, so that's two things. But imagine before this year's draft, and they would have said, hey, that fifth overall pick, you ain't getting that. Exactly. My God. So, okay. So you, again, assuming the Kawhi trade happens, and they're not going to adjust the terms, they're still going to have four first-round picks that they can make in the next five years. Now, they may not be great picks, but they're going to have them. Next seven years. Next seven years. No, picks, you're 29 and 31. Their picks are 27, 29, 31, and 33. They're going to have two in 29, my friend, because. Incorrect. They're going to have the Raptors pick in 29 and 31. And they're going to have their pick in 27 and their pick in 29. Hold on. I'm, let me double check here. I'm pretty certain you've got the Raptors stuff. What are, what are. What are they getting from the Raptors? Hold on. All right. I'm going to, while you're looking that up, I'm going to keep going. Okay. McMahon said the word originally to the, to the, to the Wolves penalty. That's right. It was originally five first-round picks, but guess what? It ended up being three because they followed the rules. They allowed themselves to, yep. The Raptors? Agree, man. Was unprotected picks in 2031 and 2033. Okay. I want to apologize to you. Now there is a 27 swap. So they would be swapping the worst of Denver and OKC for whatever Toronto's is. Okay. But I see. And then two second rounders. I see everybody saying, okay. I see everybody saying, oh my God, Kawhi cost, you know, they're, they're throwing the Paul George trade in and they're saying Kawhi cost him 10 firsts and two swaps. 10 firsts and swaps and. Hold on, my friend. By the way, Shea Gildas Alexander. Agree. Agree. Hold on. My friends, as Lee Corso would say, not so fast, sweetheart. What if they get these two firsts back and they have two other firsts that they're, that they've already swapped. So they're not trading them because it's, or they're, you know, they can't penalize these teams. I know what they could do with those. They can call Sam Presti and say, hey, well, you seen the Shea? We'll send you these picks. Yeah. Well, that's a different story. Now, here's the other thing. As I just said, the Wolves got two of those picks back. Do you know why they got the two? Those two picks back? Because they took their punishment and shut the hell up. They didn't put out statements. They didn't put out open letters. They didn't sue. At this point, the Clippers just need to try not to get this worse. Okay. And. They're not, I don't, I can't imagine them getting anything back. Right. With as damning as this is. Well, we're in a rough spot right now, but it's not too late. So Stern made them wait for a year. And in 2001. He gave them back one pick. And then 2003, he gave them back a second, not a second rounder, a second first round pick. I'll be honest with you, man. I'm wondering if this ends up with Balmer just throwing a fit and saying, the hell with it. I'm going to cash in and getting whatever would be six billion, seven billion, eight billion dollars for a team he paid to bill for. That's fascinating. I can't see him doing that, but we're out of the, we're out of the realm of normal. I mean, but this is, this is like emotional. Right. But like. Sometimes you hire an attorney to get you the best. plea bargain you can get now i have to believe i'm going to phrase that all the way to go about a plea bargain insult the uh the judge well it happens it happens i'm gonna phrase this carefully i have to believe there was discussions with the clippers and the and the nba about the what what was what amounted to a plea bargain believe before this happened I mean, the Clippers are claiming via this letter that they were completely blindsided. No, they were blindsided that the penalty was coming down. Okay. Dude. Go on. Make your point. And they may not have known everything that was in the report. I don't argue that. But if they could get an agreement, if they could plead guilty, get an agreement and say we're not going to challenge any of these penalties, and they get an agreement that there'll be no further penalties. Basically, they'll say that these five first round picks are all encompassing. They cover everything. It's a blanket agreement. And they keep their nose clean. And they do the Kawhi training. They might be able to come out of this without four broken limbs. They may be able to come out of this with less damage. Well, if they don't want to get their limbs broken, they need to stop throwing rocks at the league office. I agree, which is why I'm saying. Listen, here's a quote. Nonetheless, this is from the letter. With less than an hour's warning and no opportunity to respond, the league has issued a report and accompanying press release purporting to conclude the exact opposite of what it has said prior. Like, the league puts out a thing from this law firm detailing a long list of lies from the Clippers, and the Clippers' response is saying you're a bunch of liars. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries, merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere. Your MasterCard is accepted. Chronic migraine. 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more, can make me feel like a spectator in my own life. Botox, onabotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with. With 14 or fewer headache days a month. It's the number one prescribed branded chronic migraine preventive treatment. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. 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Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, I want to talk about some of the people who come out of this who seem like they came out of this okay. Let's start with Kawhi. Oh, yeah. He pays $700,000 restitution. And by the way, that was for, like, them paying for, like, flights and hotel rooms and, like, you know, stuff that they weren't supposed to pay for outside of his contract. Not for any of these endorsement deals. Right. Endorsement deals. He's keeping that money. Like, this report says that Kawhi was paid $21 million by Daktronics, the insurance company, and Boingo Wireless. By 2021. Then he does the deal with Aspiration. He got paid for a couple of years on that. Yeah. So he got. He's up dozens of millions of dollars. Yes. And so he pays $700,000. And here's the thing. He doesn't get suspended. Because $700,000 is like two games. Yeah. Two and a half games. Okay. Game checks. All right. Secondly. If the trade happened. Do you think the Raptors are still extending him? Of course. You're not giving up two first-round picks to not extend the guy. This dude's getting extended. Yeah. It ain't going where he wants to go. I don't know if he wants to go there, but he has to go there. He has to get out. I do think he. I mean, he directed his way to Toronto. I know. But, I mean, if he ranked his choices, I'm not sure that that's where. I don't want to get into that. What's the. Was it. This is like those movies where the guy just. Walks away unscathed and the world's burning behind him. Yeah. So, let me ask you this. When Kawhi gets announced. It's, again, assuming the trade happens. When Kawhi gets announced on opening night, are they of cheering in Toronto? Yeah. He won the banners up there, right? I mean, the banner's up there and he's back. I think they are cheering. Listen, Kawhi's arrival at least gives the Raptors reason to hope that they can be a legitimate contender. I agree. They weren't going to be without getting a guy. I like that. Listen, the Eastern Conference teams do not want this trade to happen. The Raptors improve in this trade. And maybe Kawhi's hurt all year and plays, you know, 20 games. But, like, there's at least the ceiling is significantly higher with Kawhi Leonard in a Raptors uniform. All right. Let's talk about Lawrence Frank. He got six months and not a year for, this isn't a legal term, but I'll paraphrase, singing like a canary. Right. So, in the case of Minnesota, back in the day, Kevin McHale had to go out for a year with no pay. I think they called it a leave of absence. They didn't call it suspension. But he got a year with no pay. Lawrence Frank, despite the Clippers not doing that well the last couple years, to the point where they basically started a blow-up this last season, he got a contract extension. Whew. And he thought it was hush money, but apparently not. That's what's fascinating. People, from what I understand, like, when that got announced or, like, it leaked, the league office didn't know it was happening. And they, you know, regardless of what they knew then, like, they didn't like the appearance. And this is basically right after, in this report, it says that Zucker was lying through her teeth. Right. So, Zucker gets a year. It says, by contrast, Mr. Frank openly discussed with investigators his conduct from the relevant time period, recalled details of key events, took responsibility for the actions of subordinates, and was generally consistent across his interviews. Not only that, McMahon, he gave him this, he turned over his notes. I got to tell you, I wonder what Balmer was thinking as he got to that part of this report. Well, that's a question, you know. Did the Clippers know what Lawrence Frank had said and done? I don't know. That, I, I'm reading this stuff and I'm thinking, man, it's going to be hard for L. Frank to continue to sit in that seat when he gets back six months later. Right. So, here's why. Let me read from the report. The Clippers' most senior executive, president of basketball operations, Julian Zucker, and president of basketball operations. I'm sorry, president of business ops, Zucker, president of basketball ops, Lawrence Frank, are primarily and directly culpable for this misconduct. So, they basically are saying, those are the two guilty parties. Zucker lies to, according to the investigators, covers up, whatever. She gets a year's pay, a year suspension, a year's pay. Lawrence Frank cooperates. He gets six months. Yeah. So. Six months off. Good behavior. Our man, Jackson, brands him as Fredo. You know, this isn't the first time a Lawrence Frank notes have been used. Hey, he could have been a hell of a journalist. The man takes good notes now. Do you remember this? When he was deposed as the, when the Nets did the deals where they brought in Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce, they hired Lawrence Frank to be Jason. Jason Kidd was hired as coach. Yeah. They hired his ex-coach in, uh, in New Jersey. And remember, Jay Kidd was hired as coach, like, the sweat wasn't even dry from his NBA career as a player anymore. Well, that was grade A tampering. Oh, no, it was tampering on the Bucs when they took him. Oh, Bucs. By the way, we didn't mention the tampering that they did the whole year that Kawhi was in Toronto. That's also a backdrop here. But, yeah. That's true. They put L. Frank in to be, you know, first-time head coach. You get an experienced guy as his right-hand man. And, boy, that didn't go well. Yeah, basically, Jason was done with him within weeks. And he was the highest-paid assistant coach in the league at the time. And then assigned him to do TPS reports. Yes. I don't know how many of our—Jackson, do you know what a TPS report? Do you know that reference? No. Yeah. I mean, he knew Fredo. I give him credit for knowing a Godfather reference. He doesn't know office space reference. Anyway. You've seen my dad. I have to know the Godfather. Okay, good. That's true. And I want to give you—I want to assign you bonus points for making a Godfather reference. So, the—you know, we're far afield again. But Lawrence Frank was told to basically stay home and file reports. And apparently he did. I don't think anybody— Yeah. He ever read them. But he was home filing reports. So, he was taking notes about, you know, like, this is—taking notes about Uncle Dennis making demands. Yeah. And, you know, the thing about the timeline here, just in case, you know, that got distorted. In 2019, Kawhi signs with the Clippers. The Raptors— Fresh off leading the Raptors to a championship. Right. The Raptors are crying bloody murder. They're crying foul. Saying that Uncle Dennis was asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars. By the way, the Raptors were not alone in those cries. I think some of them were coming from across town, too. That's right. And I remember stories came out and people were like, ah, they're just sour or whatever. So, the NBA is like, we better investigate this. The NBA investigates it and finds the Clippers cop to it. They go, yeah, he was asking. Oh, he was asked for all kinds of crazy stuff. Now, how is Uncle Dennis allowed to do—like, why is he not immediately— He was not immediately sanctioned by the league there. I mean, maybe he was on some level. We don't know about it. He's not—he was not an accredited agent. All right. So, they couldn't pull that. But, like, right there, you know, that's a— You banned guys from arenas. I've been banned from arenas. Yes, you have. Multiple times. I just won. I thought you were multiple times banned. I was—first time, I was only banned from the locker room. The second time was the whole arena. Okay. Good. It's a good one. Anyway, Uncle Dennis was not banned. He was, you know, still welcome. So, that's, you know, odd right there. So, that is in the, you know, that is in the summer, fall of 2019. The 2019-2020 season begins. Infamous season, because in the spring, you know, or in March, this season shuts down because of COVID. During COVID, Uncle Dennis, according to this report, calls up the Clippers and says, Y'all promised me that you would get Kawhi some money, some endorsement. You brought me some BS deals. Uh-huh. Because remember, there was, you know, the previous jersey ad, the previous jersey sponsor before Aspiration, Kawhi did have a deal. And he did, like, perform commercials for them. And it was for some pittance of money. You know, I want real bogus deals. Don't give me fake bogus deals. I want BS deals, but real money. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly right. So, that call takes place. Lawrence Frank takes notes on the call and saves them. All right. You know, he's being a very, you know, I think it's good business for a general manager to save notes. You can refer to things. I've talked to, over the years, I've talked to many agents and executives who refer back to, they're like, well, you told me two weeks ago about this. And I was like, damn, they're taking notes. They're taking notes on what I'm telling them. So, that's not unheard of in the NBA, but Lawrence Frank takes that. And then, within, while the world is shut down, you think Daktronics is selling many new scoreboards in a pandemic? Yeah. Do you think Kawhi's, like, marketability was peaking while the world and NBA is shut down? Were they going to do some great commercials with him? Were they going to, you know, no. So, during the pandemic, he gets. He gets these three deals. And not only that, according to, again, according to the report. During a six-day span in early June 2020, after old Uncle Dennis had given them a three to six-month timeline, deadline. Yeah, he said three to six months. I don't care if the world's shut down. Get Kawhi his money. As soon as the Clippers, as soon as the endorsement deals happen. The Clippers enter into consulting agreements. Yeah. With these companies. Where they give them money for consulting. Do you think Daktronics, I mean, I guess Daktronics could consult on scoreboards. You think Boingo Wireless is, I mean, I guess they could consult. They're not known for. And by the way, on the day that Zucker sends these introductory emails, Kawhi files this LLC. Must have been. Must have been. Must have been. Must have been. Must have been a great introductory meeting. I tell you what. So, like I said, if you were on a jury, like, like, if you were on a jury and you didn't care, you know, you didn't care about basketball and you heard all this, you'd be like, guilty. Like, we don't need, we don't need a long debate here. No. No. And, and the Clippers, look, they've, they've cut bait from that era. They're trading Kawhi. They've traded Paul George. Like, all the players. All the picks and stuff are out the door. Shea's winning MVPs and won a championship with the Thunder. His co-star, Jada Williams, is, was part of this deal, too, as a draft pick. The damage is done. You've just got to dig yourself out of the rubble of one of the most disastrous deals in sports history. I mean, this thing ended up being, like, it's up there with the Herschel Walker trade. Who was in the Herschel Walker trade? Well, when you start stacking up picks and stuff, guys like him. Emmitt Smith and Darren Woodson and, like, it was, like, a whole bunch of dudes. But, but, Emmitt Smith and Shea, you know, just start there. All right. And that deal was all the picks. In this deal, you gave up an MVP plus all the picks. By the way, the Clippers. To get two playoff series wins. Two. It's tough. And another team's about to extend them. By the way, the Clippers have Rui Hotchkiss. Shamura on an expiring deal. They got a team option. They got Brooke Lopez on an expiring deal. They got Max Struess on an expiring deal. Grady Dick, who they're trading for, is, you know, assuming that deal happens, is on an expiring deal. Brandon Ingram has a player option. They might be able to redo that contract, depending on how it works out with him. The Clippers are going to have cap space, McMahon. This is a devastating blow. But this is. This is not. This is not a death blow. It's not. But it's pretty devastating. It's bad. I'm telling you. It's not impossible for them to come out of it with a respectable team. Again, they also just drafted a guy fifth overall. And if Keaton Wagner ends up being a real deal player, that obviously is a big, big deal. Could they trade. Darius Garland, he's got two years and $86 million left. Could they trade Darius Garland right now for a first-round pick? I'm uncertain of that. I mean, honestly, given his injury issues, I'm very uncertain of that. I think now, next year, as an expiring contract, would he have value? Sure. But I don't know, man. A small guard who's had those kind of injury issues, I'm not sure that there's a huge market for him. All right. Well, I'm just saying, like. It's bad, but I want to be clear. I'm not saying that they're going easy on him. I'm just saying this is not hopeless. You're saying it could have been worse? Yes. And if they want to just have a knockdown and drag out, it can still get worse. What if they avoided Kawhi's contract? It can still get worse for the Clippers. Yes. The league is basically saying, hey, we think there's still some skeletons that we can uncover. And if we do, we can come back and add to this. Yeah. I mean, it's honestly, the Clippers sold their soul to Uncle Dennis and Kawhi, and they got a bunch of crap sprayed all over them in return. Yeah. Two playoff series and an embarrassing scandal. Right. For the most part, the last seven years have been a disaster. And they poured the foundation of a potential dynasty in Oklahoma City. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's the punishment, plus all these picks now out the door as well. Yeah. And look, here's the deal. Just in terms of the trade, like forget all the under-the-table stuff and all that. In terms of that trade, to get Paul George, who I'll remind people, at the time, he was coming off a season in the middle of his prime when he was third in MVP voting. Listen, I thought their team was going to be awesome. To get Kawhi, who's coming off final as MVP, and Paul George, who's a first-team All-NBA player. in his prime. every team in the league would have done now to open up a potential championship window now murphy's law or karma however you want to put it has completely blown up in their face since then and you know they're like to give up shea you know that was tough like people knew hey you know that guy's gonna be good he's second team all rookie like he's got a chance to be a player nobody thought he was going to be a perennial all-star much less a back-to-back mpp the thunder admit that no i mean the headline of the trade was all the picks um jackson wonders if it's not a good idea for the league to say they want to stop digging because why why is that jackson why are you saying that i'm more so just saying we said for the clippers it's a good idea for them to accept the punishment i was actually saying it's probably good for the league too if if you say no more punishments to come let's accept this let's sweep this under the rug so then there's not another pablo story coming out or people keep if they dig for more and they come out with more hey we can't punish them anymore we already have the max one like people it encourages people to just yeah when's the next court dates for the gambling and then yeah then the nba can focus on hey opening night we got lebron you know going to the knicks like let's get that started and talk about right well and honestly i do think adam silver in a way is a winner of this because straight up he had been soft on crime as the commissioner since ironically he booted the previous clippers owner completely different circumstances right before we right just i want to get something on the record right here just before we recorded this i taped an interview with scott van pelt and i said those exact words so i don't want you i don't want anybody to think i stole from you i said i said he had this reputation he was soft on crime i might have stolen that from you although i guess that hasn't aired yet yeah you haven't seen it unless you have my my studio room tapped then we'll have to discuss that um but yeah like adam silver the sheriff baby i you know i wasn't familiar with the game well i will say this like adam said at the at the um at his last press conference in las vegas i was there lounging on a couch if you remember oh yeah i was there lounging on a couch if you remember um kicking the feet up that he was getting or the league at least was getting regular updates on the investigation so if that was the case and they were aware of these documents that in you know and these interviews that implicated them and they still let them have the number five pick and the kawaii thing like and i guess that you know you got to do due process yeah again the more i think about this the more i think the clippers should just shut up yeah shut up because every page of this document that i read i was like whoa also just like dude nobody with any shred of common sense buys any of the bs you're trying to pump like come on dude you're busted just shut up take your punishment and and try to rebuild your team yeah um i also just don't know what pathway the clippers have to fight um they reference uh arbitration i mean bomb now which is not a thing bomber's got a obviously unlimited resources and a bunch of lawyers and he's gonna have his lawyers go on the attack clearly which is like okay dude cool again bomber is making a complete ass of himself so according to the clippers i don't have any way of proving this yet but the clippers say that they had already paid 50 million dollars for the legal fees for this and there was and that there were six law firms involved okay well my advice is don't do extraordinarily shady stuff that requires a type of investigation i'm just saying they say they paid 50 million i mean whatever i can't challenge that um that's about what kawaii got under the table the fine the fine that they were given was 30 million yeah and i believe the way they calculated that is the max fine for circumvention is 7.5 million i don't know where that oh okay so 7.5 times four right they're saying that i thought it was a million bucks per playoff game that kawaii played in clippers uniform but he actually played he actually played 35 so i knew my math was off but did he finish 35 he might have only finished about 30 yeah um yeah so all right well actually it might be a million bucks per fan who's at their season opener next year man i like going to clipper games yeah no traffic well our new studio in la is right down the street this is true we'll be we'll be in a lot of them yeah um all right well i wish i wish this closed the book but i feel like it's not gonna and what i would say going forward is that forward is watch this space for what happens with this kawaii toronto trade because um it's kind of like tony romo the other day to cross over the year where he makes his statement after he pleads no contest and he's like i look forward to coming back to cbs and cbs is like cbs did not was not on the and i look forward to being in toronto well but i'll say this in in that case the raptors look forward to having them and it's clearly in the clippers best century like could you imagine if the clippers brought kawaii back next year my god no they cannot right and so for the clippers to okay yeah that's why if i'm toronto i'm i might you might say hey a pick and and and deal with it right yeah that would be a i mean it's it'd be uncomfortable to have brandon ingram back but you know not as uncomfortable as it be for the clippers all right i'm just saying like i'm gonna watch that space because because how many times during this podcast did i reference that it's a big swing piece what and and again just in terms of the clippers being able to salvage things anytime in the near future those would be the only two picks that they have that don't have swap rights attached to them unprotected unprotected over the next seven years the only two all right thank you so much jackson and tucker and mark and the rest of our producers thank you to mcmahon for not hitting me harder last night he could he didn't order dessert and he didn't order an appetizer it's very disciplined you know he's at an advanced age he's got to watch his diet wow okay jackson cut that out i did not no no jackson it's inappropriate and i'm going to reference this the next time because what's happened um by the way there is arbitration on podcast bets and what's happened now is because of the this is brian windhurst and the hoop collective yeah so the fact that i am owed two dinners off of this podcast is your responsibility now that's i went i've discussed things yeah that's what we came to all right i uh i'm gonna go to arbitration on that for sure uh thank you to mcmahon thank you for watching and listening to who collective i hope no more emergency podcasts we'll talk to 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