Embiid’s Return, Houston’s Weird Weekend, Joker’s Swoon, and a Knicks Gut Check With Zach Lowe

somewhere out there is a chevy truck and the person who drives it well that's a chevy person you probably know one your buddy your sister ones who always show up they're the first to rise the last to leave they always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too chevrolet together let's drive visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup so bill simmons podcast we're live on netflix zach low is here uh zach low's podcast is coming tuesdays and thursdays i have a new rewatchables coming tomorrow we are doing uh ghostbusters a really famous gigantic movie uh don't forget about legata our new uh scripted narrative series as well from the ringer um we're coming the lakers rockets game isn't even over yet zach low the rockets laid one on the uh depleted lakers today and i'm going to start here no nba team has ever come back from 3-0 it's true it's true and even you're right that the game is still going on i don't even think the 2026 rockets can blow this one i think we're safe i think we're safe going live right now a 25 point lead with three minutes left i don't think any catastrophe can befall them at this point but you remember the last time a team got close to coming back from a 3-0 deficit you probably remember it very very well and it didn't happen it almost happened yeah it almost happened then jason sprained his ankle and then that was it i went to game seven and tatum sprained his ankle right in front of us oh that's the meme that's sad bill that's that game i think that was sad bill oh what a yeah that was the that started sad bill um all right the kevin millar theory don't let us get one don't let us get two from the 2004 lcs yankees so the rockets they've gotten one now they're coming la i think it's they spread it out so i think it's a wednesday night game so i assume we'll have reeves next wednesday two wednesdays from now no this wednesday three day i assume we'll have reeves no luca i've heard luca is not even that are not even close yet um did you do rockets show you anything in this game today that made you think a they're starting to incorporate strategy into the series uh and and and maybe some things that might work against an old weird lakers team because i felt like they had a couple things going tonight i mean thing number one was they actually made luke canard play defense and didn't let him just hang out i i know it took four games uh unbelievable they didn't let him hang out off the ball all the time i meant thompson attacked him and they just like he was on tar east and our east even just blew by him at one point just gave tar east in the ball jabari smith hunted him in a switch and this is going to be a lot of fun this has kind of been fun without kd it's been fun to watch guys like jabari smith junior get to do a little bit more and really stretch their wings um and that that was one and just they're they have this kind of defensive gear in them when they have their best defenders on the floor they can get a lot of steals even reed shepherd who's getting hunted i mean lebron is just being so mean to reed shepherd just constantly but he had a couple steals today they picked lebron they had a couple they picked them at half court a couple times they can create a lot of turnovers lakers had 20 something turnovers the last time i checked and yeah i think it's going to be a lot of fun i think it's going to be a lot of fun i think it's going to be a lot of fun yeah so that strategically that would be the main one i noticed those two things i also noticed they were a little more physical and relentless with lebron trying to put some miles on him reed shepherd came into the game wasn't wasn't going well well but he he stayed with it which i because i felt i really felt like his there was a fork in the road moment potentially for him where it's like wow could this series be so damaging that it might actually be hard for him to recover but i thought he gained momentum as this game went along and then you know last but not least the leadership of kevin durant on the bench would you care to elaborate on that well you know he wasn't there for game three because he was getting round the clock treatment on his uh sprained ankle and uh and couldn't come out because it's 20 24 i don't know they were talking about he was running on a treadmill underwater i i'll believe any sort of treatment story but uh i don't know why we we still don't have an answer why he wasn't out there for game three there was some weird stuff about how he was actually they did the walk into the arena before game three that was on social i think for the rockets and for the nba and then that clip was taken down the next day just a lot of weirdness okay i didn't i was not aware okay there was some uh some people saying the teammates saying well we had we don't know what's going on with him and then apparently it's all fine now and and it was always fine and we weren't supposed to doubt it at all that he didn't sit on the bench i mean it struck me as odd that he wasn't out there on the bench that's that normally an injured player is is there of that status um it did strike me as odd and uh yeah i mean that's a good word i still don't know when this injury happened um like when did it happen but i will say this like for all the weirdness you want to ascribe to kevin durant and there's been quite a lot the one constant of this guy's career is he's a gamer he plays he loves to play he played a ton of games this year he played in the final minutes he played a second in minutes he played in the finals against the raptors when maybe he shouldn't have and it cost him a year of his career like i like the guy plays and so i don't i don't know when this injury happened and maybe like to your point if they're actually going to make a run at this and we're like a long way given how bad they looked in the first three games they're going to need kevin durant they can't win three more games without kevin durant it was weird you and i know a lot of nba people and it was hard to get a straight answer for what happened on friday night and we still don't totally know it was it was a little strange yeah i expect i expected him it was funny i was watching a game and only sometime in the second or third quarter did it did it like jog in my brain like oh it's weird that i haven't seen any shots of the bench like normally that's a thing that just happens when a star player is out they just cut to them what are they wearing what's their reaction fred van vliet is all over the television and and and you know just but they won tonight and they're still winning they are still ahead bill they have not collides down to 19 with a minute and 14 seconds left oh well on fandle right now and this might change the lakers are minus 8 50 to win the series safe safe bet again no one's ever done it seems seems fair um a couple houston things oh so the lakers today that after three they're down 25 points and they were 2 for 13 from three game three they're 12 for 29 from three in game three they're also down by six points with 30 seconds left and somehow forced overtime which was like one of the only times in the history of the nba that's happened do you think this series should be two two or do you think three one is the right score for the series i think i think three one is is pretty representative um the first two games i mean they were close they were close ish but the lakers felt like the more prepared and the better team the whole time and by the way considering that yeah durant has missed what three of the four games luca and reeds have missed all of them and yeah it just this feels like a correct score of the series to me and i realized like katie's was three fred van vliet's out for the season steven adams like the rockets are missing lots of guys it's totally fair but i just expected better in those in those first two games and one durant played you know who they're also missing io de sunmo yeah well and i went on uh i did a google because i had a vague memory of of the rockets kicking the tires with him and went down a tower east and rabbit hole do you remember this uh no inform me joe callie reported on it who i think he covers them for the sun times the bulls yeah he's a bulls guy bulls bulls reporter yeah rockets would refuse to discuss tower eason for io now i was gonna be a ufa at the end of the year and tari since an rfa at the end of the year so i could i could see like you could make the case he had more value it's just an interesting what if because i would say io even before what we've seen in this series was probably more what rockets needed than tari eason who's been really up and down and has been uh incredibly erratic as a shooter and is a little redundant with some of the other guys they have interesting trade i'm i mean or non-trade i mean i don't know that that's true but it would not surprise me at all if that were true that the rockets shut down that talk because they do value their own guys very highly they value two-way guys very highly i mean i was a two-way guy but tari has obviously much more size the restricted versus the unrestricted thing i also just wonder if you know the rockets once the injuries started to mount up and the teams above them look so good just kind of were like it's it's gonna be I mean, Rafael Stone said something like this and has since walked it back. But just like the idea that this is not the year for us to make like big, splashy, not that that's a big, splashy move, but we're not rocking the boat because it's just, it's not going to happen for us this year. I understand that logic. But then at the same time, you're giving Duran a two-year extension for $90 million when he's going to be 38 next year. That would be the, that'd be the counter. Well, I mean, that's, it's been the, it's been the weird dissonance of their team. Like it was why I never got the, oh, it's a, this, the phrase blessing in disguise was thrown around much too cavalierly when Fred Van Vliet got hurt. Like, oh, we'll learn about Reed Shepard and Amon Thompson and what they can do. I'm like, that's awesome. You're trying to win the championship this year. That's why you get Kevin Durant who has next year and then a player option in 27, 28. If they lose, if they lose this series in five games, let's just say game five goes badly and they lose. Is he on the Rockets next year? I had it in my notes. You know, I would leave. No, I'm just going to come out and say, I would say I would leave. No. So I was a hard no. Cause I think whatever happened Friday, we, we won't fully find out until as Brian Curtis calls it the, uh, now they tell us story that happens after the year. That's probably going to happen with the Red Sox tomorrow. Um, cause the Red Sox who have a robot GM, who's put together a terrible roster and has made bad trades, uh, decided it was everybody else's fault. And they fired. Alex Cora, who won the 2018 title with us and five of his coaches. Hey, at least you didn't get swept in a double header by the Colorado Rockies by a combined score of six to one today. Why am I complaining about my baseball team to you? But, um, it's been, it's been a great season. I'm having a lot. So, so I'm fried. So I was in the mindset of obviously Katie's out now. This is, there's too much smoke here. I don't trust this. Plus the, whatever happened. We'll start weekend with the burner. It seems like he'll be moving on, which by the way, it would be the fourth time he'd be moving on when you count 2019 warriors, not, not the happiest, uh, last season there. Nets can't say that was a good ship. Lollipop, uh, sons can't say that was a good ship. Lollipop reference. I've heard it quite a long time. Thank you. Um, and now this one, the problem is where does it go? If you, if I always say this exercise, when I have friends in my life, we're like, well, they obviously have traded them. I'm like, all right, go on spot track, go on, uh, whatever that fan trade site is and try to find me the team. Be like, Oh, maybe he'll go home to Washington. Okay. For who they have two giant contracts and a bunch of small ones. Who are the, who are they getting? Like, just go through all the rosters. And I did find a team, Zach. I, uh, first of all, I feel bad for your friends. If you're just lecturing them about trade machine. I think you're just trying to have fun and you're like, do you know, get on spot track. You know what the second apron is like, okay, I was just, I don't know. I was just trying to have a little fun. Uh, can I take, can I say two T the names of two teams and I'll bet one of them is your team. Okay. Go heat. Nick's now had neither. He can't, he can't go to the next. I'm going to veto that. Okay. Well, no, I just, I just think that's a bad idea for everybody involved. Well, here's all I'm saying. Is this, this is this playoffs already has been a great reminder that the post-season stress tests, your roster, like no other environment, like nothing compared to the regular season. If you have a weakness, if you have any chemistry issues, if you have anything, it's naked in the playoffs, they expose you naked. And that's, what's happening to the nuggets in a lot of ways right now, which we talk about later. So like whatever happens in the playoffs to a bunch of these teams, there's going to be realizations that they learn and moves that they. Make because of how the playoffs exposes them a little bit. So those, that's the only thing I'll say about that's fair. I liked the Miami idea. As you know, I am all in on LeBron going to golden state next year. Okay. Ooh, can I, can I have Kevin Durant and clay Thompson join him? Let's go full expendables, Kevin Durant and clay Thompson, the golden state Butler's expiring to Houston. We'll throw. Quint Capella and whatever else makes the small salaries, make it work to Dallas. Maybe they get a second round pick. Maybe Houston gets something and we end up with, she gets something. Yeah. Something, you still don't get something they'll get a future pick or swap, whatever. And golden state ends up with LeBron Curry, Durant clay Thompson, Draymond green and Al Horford. Let's fucking go. The expendables are here. You USA dream team, 2024, run it back. Even I would be rooting for this team. Who's that? First of all, every game they play, every game they play sellout. Couldn't be harder to get tickets. Half the fans rooting for the warriors, wherever we go. Steve Kerr comes back now, two more years for him and we're off. We're ready to go. Is we, we already had the warriors tried to trade for Kevin Durant a couple of seasons last season and him being like, nah, that was two teams ago. Now, now he's, now he's ready to reconsider. He should have gone. Maybe. Look, maybe his mistake was he shouldn't have done it for entertainment purposes. It sounds great. Um, I, I like that. Like when B and the thunder just demand, everyone's coming together. All the old guys got like, we, we just, we can't beat them apart. We don't like these young guys. They're not ready. Blah, blah, blah. Let's let's all come together. Kevin Durant. He's been unhappy in a lot of places, you know, where he was never unhappy defending our country with his American stars with LeBron James and Steph Curry. He fit right in. And he's like, I don't want to play with these guys. I don't want to play with these guys. But you go to the Warriors where everybody says that he was carried by those guys. And he was fucking awesome those three years. I mean, in the playoffs, 48 games, including the year he got hurt, 30 a game and 48 playoff games, 37 and 5. He was the best guy on those teams. And those teams had Steph Curry. I mean, I don't think you need to even do this. No, I actually feel like I need to do it. Because I think people are forgetting now how good he was on the Warriors. He won finals MVP both years. This is why I want to bring this up. In the first one where he makes the dagger from the left wing over LeBron, there was a whole conversation of like, has he taken the best player in the world belt from LeBron? And that was like a whole thing that happened. And I think he was taking it in 2019 when he got hurt. And then in 21 with the foot on the line against Milwaukee, what he did that series was great. The problem is this decade, swept by Boston in 22, lost. Lost to Denver in six and 23, lost the last two, swept in 24, didn't make the playoffs last year, almost swept this year, but they won tonight. And, you know, that's, that's put a little bit of a black cloud over everything. It's a really tough career. I think at all the careers, like in the top 30, the toughest ones to really evaluate are him and Wilt. Wilt, you can go all over the place with it. You could, you could make a real case. He was one of the five best guys ever. And you can use all these stats. And all these things that he did. And then Durant is going to, what is he going to be second in points by the time he retires all these playoff games, all these minutes, the fact that he's going to play for 20 years, finals, MVP twice, all these really strong cases for him. And yet it really only peaked when he was on this unbelievable Warriors team. So I see both sides of the argument. I do not think he has helped his cause the last couple of years. I will say that. Uh, and also pretty underrated or depending on how you consume the NBA properly. Rated, like very good defender for most of his career as well. Like just, just, just like a pretty, like made in a lab all around superstar player could play with anybody. He could play with any kind of other co-star, just like nothing, nothing bad to say about, about his game at all. Maybe this summer we should just do like an hour and a half KD pod. Sure. We might have to just completely deep dive it. Cause I think there's really not been a career like this. Um, okay. Celtics Sixers. Yeah. Celtics were unbelievable when Kate, when Peyton Pritchard scores 28 plus points, the last two years, they're 15 and a, it felt like he had 65 points tonight at one point. I was just like, is he just made 12 baskets in a row? Is this ever going to stop? It was Kobe's 81 point game, but he only had 32 points. Uh, they're 24 and one Rooney scores, 25 plus points. That's not where I'm going to start. We finished, we taped a big chunk of this pod before, uh, right before the Celtics Sixers game. Cause there was a window. We want to get. So we can get it up faster. Um, we came out of the room and the game had started and I saw Embiid on the court and, uh, and as a Celtic fan, I was like, oh my God, this is great. I was excited that he was playing. Wow. Um, no reflection on Embiid as a player. I just think to introduce him into the series halfway through when he hasn't played, when he's rusty combined with how good I thought the Sixers played on Friday night. And I really thought they found something with. The smaller lineups and the defensive identity they had. I thought the Celtics like really pulled it out of their ass in that game. They had to make a couple of huge shots. Philly easily could have won it. Thought Maxie was really comfortable attacking them. And, uh, and you could just feel it today. I, I thought Embiid by no fault of his own, um, completely discombobulated them. And I, he was minus 25 and it felt that way. Yeah, I, I honestly, I'm, I'm surprised he came back. I did. I just didn't. I mean, it's, it's appendicitis or whatever. It is. It's a, it's a big deal. And he came back pretty, pretty early from it. Uh, I thought he looked pretty good. All things considered, like, like, you know, earlier this season, he would, he wasn't dunking at all and he had an explosive dunk. He had a couple of explosive defensive rotations. All of his pet shots seem to just roll around and go out or rattle in and out. Like you just so close, but not going in and yeah, you're right that they had, you know, I thought it's funny. I watched, um, game three and then I checked the box score the next morning. Maxie was 12 for 31. I think. And it did not, it, it felt much more efficient than that to me, cuz I just felt like the Celtics toggled between a bunch of different pick and roll coverages over the courses of game two and three. And he figured out a way to kind of solve all of them and in different ways, getting to the rim, pulling up for three passing. And it, it felt like an even better game than 12 for 31 to me. And that because that game three felt scary for Boston, it felt very winnable for Philly and, and Pritchard made a huge three Tata made a top three. Like it was. It was a tough, tough game. This was never a tough game. And when the Celtics make threes like this, they're very hard to beat. Yeah. The problem, and this is almost like a basketball IQ test, cuz yeah, he had point, he had points, he had good stats, but defensively, he really hurts them against Boston. Cuz it's just, you can always pull him into screens and stuff and get threes that you want. He does the offensive rebounding, I think is a problem when he's out there. And, uh, I just. Think they seem way slower and more kind of lumbering versus the team Friday night. I thought the Celtics were really lucky to win Friday night. And if Embiid didn't play today, I, I, I genuinely felt like the Celtics might lose tonight unless they had like a Pritchard game or something like that. The thing is Pritchard hadn't done that yet. And he's usually good for that once or twice a series, but, um, I dunno, I just thought, I thought it screwed them up a little bit like Uber. I don't think made a field goal. Um, I thought Maxie, it took him, it felt like it took him an hour. Just to be like, Hey, is it okay if I can run some of the offense too? And they were just constantly trying to work him in. I also thought Bona, I, I thought the Bona drumming combo was, was fairly effective. And I thought Paul George has been really good for him all series. I, I think he's gone toe to toe with Brown and Tatum in a lot of ways. And if there's a bright spot for the Sixers in this series, it's that I think they've resuscitated him as like, I don't think he's untradeable. I mean, he had a huge second half, uh, of game three and tonight, um, he was, you know, 16 points on six to 13, but made all his threes. He had a couple of takes against Jalen Brown. Like he had an ISO against Jalen Brown where he kind of bullied him and shoved it toward the basket later. It was like, Ooh, he's been settling for tough fadeaways a lot. And the Celtics will live with that. Even if it's over Derek white or like on a switch against Peyton Pritchard, they're fine with that. They're not going to double him. But that one was like, Whoa, that's, that looks like Paul George right there. Can I like, here's the, I thought his defense was good too, for, for the most part, especially in the first half, I think he's been resuscitated as it's not inconceivable that you could get rid of him though. That's a great feeling, right? When you're six years, like he's playing well, now we can trade him. This is like, we can't even enjoy him playing. Well, it's already, we're just like, Oh, he's playing well. Great. Call somebody. That's, that's kind of how you have to think though, when you have him in a bead, right? A hundred million dollars. A hundred and $10 million of guys that you don't know how reliable they're going to be. So would you have sat and bead? Would you have just said, you know what, what you're just out for the series? I wouldn't have played him tonight. I would have waited for him for game five. And I wanted to, I would have, I personally would have waited for a game four because I would have been really, really encouraged by how my team looked in game three, especially cause like edge comb his threes now. And the three losses he's over 16 from three, right? He couldn't hit a three on Friday and they were still in that game. Um, I don't know. I just, I thought going smaller against the Celtics was really working in their favor because the Celtics were in this, it played Vooch like 30 plus minutes in game three. A lot of, I didn't, I didn't really love 15 minutes of Vooch, much less 30 in that game. And I, I thought over and over again, they were using and abusing him in the screens and getting threes over him and just figure out ways to take advantage of him being out there. He's just too slow. Coming out on the screens. Um, but with the beat out there, all of a sudden now the Celtics could just play all their centers, get a lot of, you know, they've 18,000, those three guys, even when Garza was out there, it's like Garza is going to shoot over and beat every time he gets it, which I think he did once. Yeah, I know they're not going to say a B don't play, but I, I, I wonder if he gave Nick nurse true serum. Would he have been happy with it? So like your, your game plan would have been, let's wait until our backs are against the wall. If we lose and it's three, one, then all bets are off wild. Card, bring them out, but let's give this current team tonight to try to even up this series after there before I get, I get that. I just think the, the, the, uh, the mileage on the maxi do everything offense is, is just going to expire against a really good team and they just need another, another layer of offense. But integrating that other layer was, was a little, you know, slipshod for parts, a little like little wonky for parts of today. So in the Friday game, the Celtics were 44% shooting and 43% from three. It's pretty good. Um, today they made 24 threes, 45%. Um, and I actually thought, I thought they got great shots the entire game. It was actually one of those games. They scored one 28. They easily could add one 50. Like they missed a bunch of free throws in the first half. half. Um, the Jays were terrible in the first half. And then And the third quarter just became the Jays. And I thought really complimented each other well. And then, you know, Pritchard, who's in the running for weirdest career of the decade, where he plays four solid years, where I don't even think he averaged eight points a game, maybe like eight and a half. He wanted to be traded, remember? Yeah. And I got to say, a lot of the Celtic fans were like, this guy's good. When this guy plays, he's going to be good if he can ever get a chance. He just, he's always buried behind guards. Last year, sixth man of the year. This year, averaging 17 a game. And it's just perfect for the team they have because they do so much of this one-on-one attacks, one-on-one attack stuff. And he's really great at it. He's really like, you saw the whole tricks and everything today, plus Reggie Miller's there. They're going to have to redo his contract this summer, I think. And I think, I actually think they're allowed to extend it, but he's, I think, one of the best contracts in the league, if not the best. Seven million a year, right? He is, it looks like according to Spotrack or Spotrack or whoever you say it, he is extension eligible this summer. Yeah, he's got two more guaranteed years after this. It's 7.7 and 8.3. I'd have to look back and re-familiarize myself with how much they're allowed to add on the extension with the percentages. It's probably one of those ones where it's like, it might not even be worth it for him to do it. Austin Reeves style, better off like to wait. But I also think he wants to stay in Boston. They're going to have an interesting offseason no matter what happens. They've got money to spend. You know, they have trade exceptions. He's just a really good player. Like, I remember I picked him as six-man of the year last year. There was like a Malik Beasley, Peyton Pritchard kind of debate. And I was just like, he's just a better basketball player than Malik Beasley. He defends, he passes, he's tough, he's physical. He can score in different kinds. Offensive rebounding, he'll sneak in and he'll be like, wow, Peyton Pritchard has four offensive rebounds today. And I sadly took Beasley. I think I was trying too hard not to be a homer and swung too far the other way with Beasley. So the other thing, I don't want to talk about Tatum every podcast, even though I secretly do. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, you do. He's just, I just can't believe how good he looks on some of these drives. First of all, he played 42 minutes on Friday, which is nuts. If you had told me two months ago, hey, in game three, Jason Tatum will play 42 minutes in a regular, playoff game. Like, well, that sounds insane. We're going to do that. Definitely did it. He was explosive. His three point looks great now. Like he's got a nice snap on it. And it's interesting. He's getting better. Jalen seems like he's having a harder time getting to his spots than he's had all season. And I don't know if it's because Philly has him scouted really well, but this is a guy who was scoring on, like pretty easily on people like Lou Dort. During the season in this Philly series, it's just a lot of like, it feels like he's like a battering ram trying to just like get to his spots and bang into people and swing his arms. Like he got, I think he had two offensive fouls today, but it just either they're scouting him greater. He's starting to wear down. But I, that was, that worried me a little bit. I'm, I'm not worried. Um, I'm just, I mean, it's, they're clearly a better basketball team with the two of them. It's going to go up and down a little bit of a, who scores the most points, who has the ball, the most, all that kind of stuff. Uh, there's been games like where Jalen, I thought, uh, I can't remember which game it was, but there was one game where they started hunting. They're hunting maxi all the time, but they down the stretch, they made it clear, like Jalen, you're going to be the guy to hunt maxi cause you're just having a better night. Um, I, I'm not, I'm not worried about it, but I mean, the stats that jumps out today is the 11 assists that Tatum had. I thought his playmaking was awesome. And they're just making Boston's offense is both beautiful and simple. At the same time. And sometimes within the same session, they're just, those guys just get the matchup, they draw help and they're just making the bait, the simple reads and Tatum was just spraying it out and, you know, just really, I mean, again, 11 dimes. That's a lot. Dream situation is they clinch game five, Tuesday, Nick's Atlanta goes seven and they just get to put their feet up and relax and do the whole thing. I, I really wish Baylor Shireman would play a little bit more. It'd be my one question. I think he's been lights out when he's coming into these games and really additive and I wish he would get more minutes, quick mailbag stuff before we take a break. Um, Adam writes in the, I assume move 43 point game feels eerily similar to Jalen Brunson's coming out party post Luke injury in the 2022 Utah series. Um, are there some parallels for, is he starting to bump his free agent salary up? He isn't. It's like an unrestricted free agent this year. No Minnesota can go over whatever to try to get him. But could you see a Jalen Brunson, Nick, somebody going big on him and giving him like 110 million for four years or something? I could, I mean, it, the, I'm not sure any of the cap room teams fit, but that doesn't necessarily prevent things like that from happening. I mean, I, I could, because that's, we're in a world where that's not like max money. It's not, it's not, it's, it's a lot, but he's probably worth like 20 plus. I mean, that, that's probably his value for sure. I think it for sure is value is above that. The Brunson thing is like, well, he like, could he be the number one option on an elite NBA offense? I'm not, I'm not sure I'm ready to go there because Brunson has the kind of physicality, um, but he's a really good player. I was really good. It's again, like we talk about it later, but just, I don't know what the bulls were like. What's the rush? Like we have, we did. Let's dive into that. We have a good player. We don't want them. Okay. I was thinking the markets between 20 and 25, but then you put the free agent craziness tax on it. And maybe it does get to like 110 for four years. Maybe somebody is like, this is Derek white. This is like 2020s version of Derek white and kill Alexander Walker. One of these guys that like, let's, let's invest in this dude. And we think he could be the third best guy on a really good team. And by the way, if they thought that I can't really disagree. I think he could be the lead guard on a really good team. The lead guard. Yeah. Like the best guard you have, not necessarily your number one score, not your number one playmaker, but like you need a real apex playmaker. Then, uh, yeah, but I think he could be your best two way guard on a good team. That's that. I don't disagree. He's really good. Uh, Rob from Philly wants to know if the Ewing theory committee was dispatched to Atlanta. I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question to figure out whether Trey young and the Hawks, the eligibility of that, uh, we did send some people down to Atlanta and they rejected Trey's application. They decided he was not good enough. Oh, yeah, it's a, it's a rare situation cause four years ago you might've said so, but, uh, nobody was like, wow, what are the Hawks going to do now without Trey young and that's like, it was, it was too predictable. Can I, can I just like the Ewing theory? I just, it's, it's, I'm a little angry lately about it because it's now so pervasive that when Francisco Lindor, my daughter's favorite player got hurt earlier this week, I got multiple texts from people cause he's been struggling this season is the Ewing theory is the Ewing theory in play for Francisco Lindor. No, screw you people. Don't bombard me with that kind of stuff. Well, Dave, do you want it? Did you win a world series with Francisco Lindor? Then he's eligible. We did not. Yeah. There you go. Um, somebody named Duran once had a long Durant email that ends with the question is Kevin Durant, the Michael Jordan of good stats, bad team guys. This is my point of bringing up the Durant stuff earlier. Like I'm telling you, people are losing their mind with this Durant thing. These are the emails I'm getting. I mean, yeah, I'm the, the answer is no. No, um, most of his teams have been not bad. There's been out of bad teams. It's the Sonics Kyle wants to know, Kyle wants to know, is CJ just Dame with worse PR or is Dame CJ with better PR? They're both excellent basketball players. Damian Lillard's had a better career. Uh, is his PR good? I don't know. This is PR very good. I mean, this thing is cool. The, the, the watch thing is cool. He's made a bunch of big shots. Um, CJ is awesome. If CJ can beat the Knicks, these two. The next three and, and parade into the next round and try to go toe to toe with the Celtics. It's not a closed discussion. I just can't. I mean, you have to sit back for a second. I mean, he is like murdering the Knicks in crunch time. It's like, like he's Michael Jordan. It's like every play CJ and get out of the way. And you have to sit back and remember, like he was on the wizards for like most of the season. He was just over in Washington. Yeah. Doing stuff. And now. He's like the biggest clutch force in the playoffs so far. It's almost like a actor that was on a, I don't know, one of those fire shows on NBC, New York fire. Is that a show? Probably Chicago fire. Chicago fires. Definitely. He's like a famous movie actor, but now it's like, ah, he's the number three guy in Chicago fire. This is too bad. Now, all of a sudden he's in, you know, a Christopher Nolan movie. And I'm like, oh, this is wow. CJ he's back. Last question. Yeah. You and Zach, this is from Ryan from Milwaukee. You and Zach both gush over Jokic all season long. While he might be one of the best offensive players of all time, he's a cone on defense, forgets how to shoot threes in the playoffs, and he only has one ring. Give me Duncan over him, and it's not close. Did any of us put him above Tim Duncan? I mean, you and I are like president of the Tim Duncan is top. That's another one that as the years pass, people are starting to forget about Tim Duncan too. There was this great clip. He turned 50, by the way. Happy birthday, Tim Duncan. That's great. And there's this Twitter account called NBA History, and they ran this clip of Duncan and LeBron congratulating Duncan after the 07 finals. LeBron's like a baby. He's like 22. And he's like, hey, great series. And Duncan says to him, yo, I love what a good teammate you are. Keep it up. Keep doing what you're doing. He doesn't praise him about how well he's playing. He specifically praises him on being a teammate and his connection with everybody. And to me, that's Tim Duncan in a nutshell. And that's why I always ride for the guy. It wasn't about the stats. He could have averaged 25 and 12 if he wanted to. He was very happy 20 and 10 and being an awesome teammate. Like he sounds like a mentally healthy youth sports parent, basically. I'm so proud of you. Here's this little mini trophy. All right. So we think Celtics 1 and 5? Yeah. What about Lakers? I'm going to give the Rockets another game. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. It gets a little frisky and Lakers win in six. Okay. I not only agree. I actually, I think it's six or seven. I thought LeBron looked a little gamey. You forget he's, I don't know if you know this, but he's 41 years old. You are, I mean. He looked a little gamey tonight. We do have to have every, and he deserves it. He deserves it. Absolutely deserves it. But we do. It's like. I think it's in the Broadcast Partners contract that there needs to be a two-minute soliloquy about LeBron's fitness and how much attention he pays to his body every game. It's just like, it doesn't matter if you do it every game. It's just, all right, it's the eight-minute mark of the second quarter. Grant, Grant Hill, the floor is yours. I want people to start doing that about me. It's like, Bill Simmons, 25 years now, columns and podcasts. You know, he walks every day, saunas, eats really healthy. Like, this guy, it's amazing how he takes care of himself. Tell people out there to do that for me. Okay. I'll give it a shot. So, you're more depressed about the Mets than I'm depressed about the Red Sox, it sounds like. It's a devastating turn of events. Fantasy had, like, multiple tweets today. He's, he's. Like, he turns into the Unabomber every once in a while. And there's these long missives about the Mets. He's having a rough, I mean, it's been, it's a disaster. It's an absolute, like, this has, the Mets. The Mets have been, have, like, the Vince Coleman firework season, the Bobby Bonilla contract. There's, like, a lot of just embarrassing Mets stuff. This has the potential to just be, they have, they, I think I saw a stat, they've scored two or fewer runs in half their games this season. They have the highest payroll in Major League Baseball. Baseball's different than basketball, because in basketball, if you spend money on guys, it usually works out. Yeah. It's like. It's like, oh, we've signed Giannis. He's 32. This is probably going to work out. In baseball, you sign somebody, and their career is over, like, the next day. And you're like, we still owe you $280 million. By the way. You can't hit anymore? Longest, longest into any podcast we've ever done before Giannis was mentioned, and mentioned as a baseball-related aside, no less. Yeah, true. Giannis. A lot of time to talk about him this summer. All right. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about an incredible. Spurs comeback. What's going on with the Nuggets, the Knicks game four, all the other basketball storylines is next. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA postseason is here, and FanDuel knows the only thing better than watching your favorite team win is winning along with them. FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, and plays during their playoff run. Build the same game parlay or try live betting and jump in after tip-off. Don't forget, with FanDuel, you get paid instantly when you win. Download the. FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21-plus select states are 18-plus D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE, or call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. Whether it's the 19th inning, the 12th quarter, or the fifth and a half shift, overtime, not going anywhere. Which is why Duluth builds hard-working gear for folks who work. They're butts off. Their surefire arsenal of work shirts are built for function and comfort, giving a big foam middle finger to all that is futile. And the new no-quit utility shirt is equipped with cooling and wicking tech, oh boy, to keep you comfortable, all while being tough enough to take down your most daunting tasks. When it's marathon work session versus you, give no quits. Shop at a Duluth store near you or at DuluthTrading.com. All right, we just hopped in a time machine and went backwards to 6 o'clock Eastern time to talk about the other six games in round one. Coming off Spurs-Blazers, a terrifying San Antonio Spurs performance, Zach Lowe. This is the one that you're watching the second half, and if you're every other playoff team, the hairs on your arms are going up. Yeah, as we're recording this, the Blazers have 32 points in the second half of an NBA basketball game, which by Cavs-Raptors standards earlier in the day is actually not so bad. Lavish. But an absolutely terrifying Wemby defensive performance in the second half. And then you throw in, like, oh, De'Aaron Fox. Hey, I remember that guy, all-star De'Aaron Fox, just making step-back threes over everybody. Spurs are figuring out counters to all the weird defensive schemes the Blazers are using. But Wemby was just everywhere. And the Blazers, look, like, the Blazers are not a good offensive team. They're not a good shooting team. They're a horrendous turnover team. So, like, it's not as if they did this to. the, you know, number one or two offense of the NBA. But it was legitimately, like, oh, my God. They're on the road. That counts for something. Yeah. Also, game three, when Scoot. I was really having a moment on Friday night with Scoot taking it to Dylan Harper. And then we learned a valuable lesson. You don't talk shit to Dylan Harper. And then he put in a facsimile 2000 game four finals Kobe kind of arrival performance. He's a 10 out of 10 on that scale. Dylan Harper was like a seven. But it was like, hey, here's what the future is going to look like when I'm putting this all together. And I look like this all the time. So that was game three. That was scary. No Wemby in that game. Game four, Wemby and the Spurs just. The only other team that can do this is OKC, right? That could do a 60 to 30 second half of a playoff game on the road. And they've been. Yeah, I mean, Oklahoma City has a gear of frenzy that almost nobody can reach. The Spurs, it just looks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's different because they don't quite have the perimeter frenzy and all the crazy wing. They've got some great defensive wings and guards, but they have the one guy in the middle who is just everywhere and impacting every play and in four places at once. And you just see everybody looking around like, where am I? So I can't shoot this. I got to shoot. It's crazy. So this is a sweep if he doesn't get hurt in game two, I think. I mean, they were winning when he got hurt. But yeah, they were winning in the first half. Right. They didn't win. So, yeah, I think, I mean, I picked Spurs in five. I gave the Blazers a game one way or another. They're a tenacious defensive team that can cause some problems. But yeah, this feels like, it feels like we're heading toward an appropriate Spurs in five. I think this, that series was a win for the Blazers. They, you know, we know what the limitations are, but when you think about, um, it was a good Drew Holiday series, like a kind of validating a pretty weird trade, at least for the short term. They wanted to bring in a veteran guy. Then he was okay. I think this is, I wouldn't say the greatest matchup for him. Um, and you know, they're. Feisty. There's some pieces here and I can't wait until they have a coach that makes $425,000 next year. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens when Gabe Kaplan is the head coach of the, of the trailblazers. Uh, yeah, the Fox thing, the big things for the weekend, other than when we coming back and looking healthy was Harper and game three. And then Fox kind of reminding people like, yeah, this is in here. I've been, I've been scaling it back. Just being just kind of here to help out, facilitate, get some shots out. But. Uh, for the most part, that's, that's lurking in there somewhere. We'll see if it lurks in an okay. C series. Can we talk about Dylan Harper really fast for game three? Cause we haven't done a, neither of us have done a podcast since then. I would love to. That was a, uh, I texted some people I know at the Spurs after that game. I said, that was, that was a real effing play of playoff win game three. That was like a big boy playoff win without Wemby. It was, uh, an awesome game to scoot going at him. And then Harper basically from that moment on, just taking. His soul out of his body, still a win for the series for scoop, but Harper was so good. And you could just see all the pieces where, where we're going to go. And I'm not, I'm not really positive where we're going to go with him because when he hits the three pointer, he basically has every single offensive weapon you, you need. He can, he can do stutter, step, get in the lane, Brunson style. He can just get to the rim. He can play with somebody on his body. He can step back and hit threes. And then he can also kick back out to people with really like precise. Nice passes already. Like, he's a really, really, really advanced, advanced, advanced guard. One of the best, I think, rookie guards that we've seen come into the league that I can remember the last 10, 15 years, right? Who else jumps to mind? Like, who at 19 and 20 where you could really see, like, some special shit? Not very many people. And yeah, special. Like, that was a game without Wemby that they needed other people to step up. And he and Castle were both unbelievable. Yeah, first of all, it helps to move up in the lottery three years in a row. Second of all, it's been one of the pleasures of this series. Like, the Blazers have a lot of kind of power perimeter players, including one of the all-time great, like, power hybrid point guards in Drew Holiday. And it's been so fun to watch Castle and Harper be like, oh, we're just kind of babies in this league compared to you. But we're going to, we have that too. We're going to take it right at you over and over again. It's been so fun. Yeah. And Castle, who was the unsung hero on game three at 33. But Harper was just such a dramatic. Second half entrance by Harper to that game that it kind of overshadowed everything else. But Castle has been great. Pretty omnipresent. Even that play that led to the double technical with Denny started because Denny was really physical with him dribbling up the ball. And Castle finally got tired of it. Took him to the basket. Did the whole thing. Blazers home game. No t-shirts. They were shooting used t-shirts during timeouts into the stands. I don't know if you knew about that. They'd gone to some Goodwill, grabbed some stuff. But he wore. Armpit stains. Like, what are we talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Just, you know, not, not holes in them or anything, but definitely had been worn. I'd still think win for the Blazers. They've rekindled some trade value for some guys. And I'm interested to see what they do this summer. Okay. Cavs Raptors. Yeah. That also happened today. It did. This was an homage to what, what year? 2006, 2005, 2003. Yeah. I mean, I looked at the score multiple times in the second quarter and had to remind myself that it was the second quarter. So you pick, pick a year from a long, long time ago in an NBA far, far away. Oh, four Raptors shoot 32% and win. They had 21 offensive rebounds and they had 36 free throw attempts. And it seemed like they blew the game. And then the, the Cavs had a very strange stretch. They're up five. They give up two free throws. They missed five straight shots in the last two minutes. And all of a sudden the Raptors are winning and all of a sudden the game's over. And it was a, it was kind of your worst fears for a Mitchell Harden game, right? I mean, I don't even want to put the blame on Mitchell Harden. Nobody covered themselves in glory in this game, but Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to combine for 11 points on five of 16 shooting when you're being guarded, at least at the start of the game by a combination of RJ Barrett, who they've cross-matched onto a big guy and Yaka Purtle, who can kind of sometimes stay on the floor at a couple of nice takes in this game. Like I understand that the Raptors, they bring in Murray Boyles off the bench. And when he's the only quote unquote, big man on the floor with Scotty Barnes, they're very switchable. They're very hard to play against, but like, that's not the entire game. Yeah. And remember that the third quarter started and they very Cleveland very clearly came out. I was like, Hey, Evan face up against Yaka Purtle. If he's guarding you and score some baskets and he got two. And I was like, all right, great. Then they switched to matchup. They put a Purtle onto, or they put Purtle onto, I don't know. They switched to match up one way or another. They, they put Purtle somewhere else and they put RJ Barrett on mobile. I think. Yeah. And then we just never heard from either of those guys. Again, Jared Allen had a great defensive game, had some blocks, had some rip protection, but like we can clown Mitchell and Harden for shooting 12 of 38 combined, but the big guys deserve a little, a little bit of criticism to Mitchell six for 24 Kobe. Omash Harden had six turnovers in the first half. And I tweeted this. I was so disappointed. Barkley didn't make a joke about the. Cavs being in Toronto all weekend, Friday night, Saturday night, and then playing a 1:00 PM game. And Harden just looked like he had woken up a half hour before I had the same question marks next to Mobley. He, he had eight points, nine rebounds and three assists. Um, and you just forget he's out there for stretches. I'm starting to wonder if this is just who he is. We kept like factoring in this bump in the ceiling for him and all the potential of what he could be. And. Oh, wait, maybe he's really a, a five. Maybe he shouldn't play next to Allen. Well, what happens if he starts making threes? That's going to change him. Well, we don't see from him is the guys get out of my ways. I'm just going to wreak havoc here for an hour, right? We need this game. We're up to one. Nobody can get anything going. Just I'm kicking it in a fifth gear and I'm going to destroy everybody for about a half hour here. And he just doesn't do it ever. And this is the game you win. If you're a serious NBA contender. On the road, tough game, tough atmosphere, tough, but like limited Toronto team, not a, not a great team. You win this game and go up three, one and set yourself up for the four, one win, which should be, which, which, you know, I picked cabs in seven, but like it was sitting there for them. Toronto did not come out like a blaze of glory. And this is a game you win. And yeah, I mean, to your point, Cleveland, all of a sudden, like they'll go, they'll put Allen and Mobley together at the start of each, each half. And then we'll never see them play together again. And we didn't see Mobley for like most of the time. The fourth quarter, Jared Allen was playing so well. And I think they're caught in this existential dilemma of like, all right, well, do we want to play them together more? Well, that means we have to increase their minutes. We don't love the spacing. It's getting a little funky. I've been Mobley's three kind of disappears for a week at a time. Then, okay. If we want to go small, who do we play when we're small? Do we want to play more guards? Do we want to play more of our forwards like Tyson and Struess and Wade, all of whom were okay today. And then Sam Merrill, who had been a zero for the entire series came in and damn near swung the entire game at the entire series for Cleveland with his gravity. And he actually held up. Okay. Defensively even against Ingram, but it's like they all of a sudden feel like they're torn between identities in some ways. And, um, it's not, this should, I mean, like credit the Raptors, their defense was sensational. Murray Boyles is one of these stories of the last month and a half of the NBA season and the playoffs so far, and they made it really hard on the cabs and the cabs did not have a lot of answers. Yeah. Murray Boyles gets, uh, three stars for his game today. And the fact that they can play small with him, um, with a rookie and be okay, but it may like even big picture, let's say the cabs get through this series and they play Boston down the road. Boston's just going to go small with better players than Toronto has, you know, cause I think this is a blueprint now. Um, the, the, you mentioned that they were split between two teams. Basically, I would almost say they're split between two teams, but then they're also split between two teams. I think they're split between a second version of those two teams where the Mitchell and Harden stuff at the end of games, where it just feels like they're both 30 feet from the basket, looking at each other. And then one of them has the ball and the other one just kind of stands there and watches. It's, it's a little weird. There's some Mitchell stuff I want to get into in a second, but, um, I just, they leave me cold that I, I don't think their defense is good enough either. And in this, you know, the Raptors shoot 32% today. but what the shots that we're getting at the end of games, basically they're playing shed out there as a fifth guy. So it's Scotty Barnes just trying to beat people off the dribble. He's doing these spin things, then trying to kick out. They didn't really have anybody who could create a good shot. I didn't feel like, and they still won. I didn't like any of the shots Toronto got. I mean, their best offense for a good portion of the fourth quarter was Scotty Barnes just bring the ball up as fast as you can and see what happens. And what happened was like people kind of got out of his way sometimes or they got in his way and he went through them. I thought he was awesome. I think Toronto's defense is just taking away so much of the paint and leaving Mitchell and Harden to be like, all right, we're just going to kind of run, pick and roll out here with our guards to see if we can get RJ Barrett switched onto us and then see what happens. And then we'll hoist a step back three because the paint is like a no fly zone. But, you know, we're recording this before six or Celtic. So we'll see what happens in that game. But depending on how that game goes, like that was kind of an underwhelming game three win on the road for the Celtics. I guess no playoff went on the road against a guy like Maxie who's busting every scheme you throw at him is like ho-hum. But the East is like Detroit's down 2-1, you know, Cleveland 2-2. Boston is where they are. The Knicks are 2-2. Like, is Orlando going to win the East? Like what's happening in the East? I know. It is like unprepared for anything moment. So Darko said this about Scotty after the game. I expect more from Scotty. The way he's playing. He's 60% of a player that he's going to be in two to three years. Scotty is going to be one of the best players in the league, and he's already one of the best players in the league. So he saved it at the end. But I don't think he's one of the best players in the league. I think he's a really interesting player. And you could see today, like the last piece that's for him to become like the number one guy on an awesome team that has a chance to win the title. I think he's going to have to have the ball. And like, what is his, what's his finishing move? Going to be? And he might not have one. He might just be almost like what Igbo Dalla was. And some other guys we've seen, like guys who are way better at being your second best guy, your third best guy for them. He has to be the best guy, but I don't, I don't, I don't see it offensively. I don't know how he jumps up. What's in there in your opinion for him. I think it's the bully ball and the playmaking and look, we can, we can debate. Like what's the bet. One of the best players in the league. Like I had him, I had him third team, all NBA, and then bumped him off when Luca and Kate. I did as well. So that puts you somewhere around the 20th best place in the NBA, something like that. And it has been interesting in this series to see how willing the Cavs are. You know, they'll start with Mobley on him and then they'll go with Tyson or Struess or Wade or whatever. And I keep waiting for him to just dominate those matchups. And the Raptors spacing makes it hard for anybody to do that. And he has stretches where he does, but I keep waiting for the moment where he's going to force Cleveland to put their centers or whatever, the only Mobley or Allen on him and put those other guys somewhere else. And that hasn't really happened yet. And it's just because of the jump shot, right? I mean, we all know they're going to try to go under every screen, force them to shoot jumpers. But I mean, I'm not going to sit here. Dude played 42 minutes, had 23, 9, and 6. I'm all right. And four stocks, I'm good with that. And here's the other thing I would say. They play really fucking hard and they're really competitive. And I like that. I like them a little more than maybe I did a week ago. I still can't imagine. Like they would win a round or even two rounds. I still think Cleveland should win this series. But if I'm Cleveland, if I'm a coach on the team or I own the team or I'm in the front office, I'm a little nervous now that we're playing this team that exposes a lot of warts that we have, right? Oh, you're going small. Well, here's Mobley to punish that. Well, Mobley's not doing that. Oh, you're super competitive and going after every 50-50 ball and pounding us. Like we're going to fight back with our version of that. Well, maybe we don't have that. And they haven't, the Raptors haven't even had the game yet where they just got lucky and hit a bunch of threes, you know? So if I don't know, I don't know if the Raptors have that game. But every team has that game once in a playoff series. There's always a game where somebody goes like 14 for 35 or something. Could you go be a Walter hit one? Just a shot of some kind. We might even see Grady Dick at some point. But yeah, if I'm the, if I'm on the Cavs side, I'm a little nervous because I have some fears. There's some, you know, guys on my team that have wilted in big situations. We don't have to name them. No, really? Yeah. We have some really bad playoff losses in our recent pass. I got to do some Googling. I would just start to get, I would be getting a tiny bit nervous here. Can we do the Donovan Mitchell playoff history really fast? I love the Donovan Mitchell playoff history. Go ahead. Lost to Houston round two as a rookie, then lost to them round one the second year. Blew a 3-1 lead to 2020 Denver in the bubble. Beat a really young Memphis team, then lost to the Clippers in 21-6 after Kawhi left the famous Terrence Mann game. Just an inexplicable loss. One of the most inexplicable losses of the decade. Lost to Dallas in 6-22. No Luka the first, I think, three games. That was Brunson's arrival. And they just kind of cratered as it went along. And it became clear somebody was going to get traded. Turned out both guys got traded. Mitchell goes to the Cavs. They lose to the Knicks in five. The next year, they beat Orlando in seven in a series that it seemed like they were going to blow. And then they showed up for game seven. Got smoked by Boston in five. The next year, last year, swept Miami. And then lost to Indian five in a game where they had more excuses than games won after the series ended. Will Mobley miss the game? Garland was hurt. And Indiana just took their lunch in that series. In that series, just to add on to it, remember DeAndre Hunter? I think he got hurt. I think he gave one of that series on a Mather and chased down block. And they were like, I'd be like, they were mad about that. He didn't get called for a flagrant. I think if I remember correctly, or they wanted to assist. I can't remember what exactly what it was. And then they're like, oh man, what a big loss for DeAndre Hunter. I'm like, really? Because it seems like you guys can't wait to get rid of DeAndre Hunter. Now that he's hurt, it's like the biggest loss in the history of playoff basketball. I didn't like the way they handled adversity in that Indiana series when it hit them. Well, if they lose this series, every guy in the team, the coach, everybody is, I think, on the table. I'm prepared for every single outcome. Right? Is there one keeper that you would say, wow, they won't trade him? I'm prepared for anything. I would say Mitchell, but Mitchell has a little agency in that whole discussion as well with just the one guaranteed year left on his deal. I'm not going there yet. They should win the series. They should be. But credit Toronto, man. I thought this would be a tough series for Cleveland and it's going to be a tough series for Cleveland. This is officially a who are who are the tough guys on our team. Let's go. Like who wants this? Who's ready to bang bodies? Who's ready to? I think Struce. I liked how he's been playing. I think Jared Allen has it in him. We'll see with Mobley. Harden, you never know. Mitchell, we've seen it and he's his playoff. What is he? 28 a game for his career in the playoffs. That's what I was going to say when you went through the team results. I mean, there's been he's got a couple of dud playoff. Series individually. There's also been some series, particularly with Cleveland, where it's been like Donovan Mitchell. It is any. Is anyone else coming with me? Am I just going to have to do this all by myself, including that Orlando one? They got it out in seven. Like he's his postseason individual play is pretty unimpeachable. Like everyone's going to have a dud now and then even the very greatest players in the world like you're just having now. But it's it's been pretty by and large. Very good. Yeah. The only thing you could ding them is the well, the results, but also 31% from three of the last five postseasons and a lot of a lot of stuff like today where he just couldn't ever really get it going. And I thought what the kind of team the Raptors have is actually like the kind of team you would want to throw at the Cavs. And I think the Celtics have a version out to just long wings to put on those guys and really bother them. And and the ability to play small or big, depending on what you do. Well, we'll see. I already think this series is a win for the Raptors. Just even you know, I had Cavs in six. I bet the Cavs win game five. My prediction would still be that the Cavs would go and win in Toronto, but it's I just didn't like how the Cavs look today. Can I can I say a couple other things about this game? Yeah. How about Scotty Barnes just going to the foul line and knocking them all down late in the game and eight second violation gets thrown in there? Like if we're going to just going to have a complete offensive disappearance, we'll throw an eight second violation. I'm not sure I've ever seen that exact kind of eight second violation. Where Jamal shed seemed to know that it was coming and is like, what if I just jump in front of this guy right now and jumped in front of Donovan Mitchell and sure enough, eight second violation. That's not the first time Mitchell's had one of those either. Okay. I'm going to save. I'll save the nuggets. Want to do some magic magic pistons? Sure. Let's go. This is I've said this. I got notes. I got notes on every series ready to go. I've said this to you before. This is. A great one seed case for my two to three idea. Yet again, Detroit just on the ropes really after being awesome all season Orlando couldn't have been more disappointing this season and then end of the season in like a borderline disgraceful way. And now they're in the driver's seat at two one. But the number one thing I wrote down and I bolded it. I felt this way after game one. I felt this way halfway through game two and then the Pistons played one awesome quarter in game two. Other than that, these teams look dead even to me and even the net ratings are one of five and one of four offense defense for Orlando and the opposite for Detroit. All their stats are near the same. It just feels like if they play 20 games, I feel like 18 of them are going to be close. And I honestly don't know who's going to win the series. I would not bet on it. I would not make a prediction for it. I do not know what's going to happen. I think it's also a reminder that. Sometimes the conventional wisdom about the playoffs being different than the regular season is actually spot on. It turns out everything that we were worried about about the Pistons and Detroit fans yelled and screamed about how they had 60 wins and all this. It turns out your lack of shooting is a problem. It turns out the lack of secondary creation around Kate is a problem. And it turns out that Jalen Duren is just getting flat outplayed by Wendell Carter Jr. And it looks just frazzled on both ends of the floor, which is fine. He's 22 or 23, whatever he is. It's not fine. It's not fine. I voted for him second team all NBA. I shouldn't have this many voter regrets already. And I have like five. Well, OK, fine is I guess fine. By fine, I would mean it's not entirely shocking to me that the playoffs have proven much harder for him than the regular season. But like, but it's worrisome that Orlando has pretty easily figured out how to nullify him in this series. Yeah, his face up game just isn't working. I mean, Wendell Carter hit him with the with the shade like this guy, this guy. I couldn't believe that the whole thing went through. And as he carries himself, like he's the biggest, baddest guy in the bar. And Wendell Carter's like, let's go outside and fight right now. I'm right here. Wendell Carter's been a big winner, I think, of the playoffs so far. The the inevitable Stu Goga conflagration already happened. And it was interesting to see J.B. Bickerstaff kind of get fed up with both Stu's antics. And he yanked during during early in either the third or I think the third quarter of that game after a couple of defensive mistakes and just like sat him for a long time like there. They took that game obviously seriously. And Orlando took it from him and Paolo and Franz made a couple dagger threes. You don't expect those guys to dagger threes. That was kind of fun. Did not expect that. Well, the trade deadline, which we were concerned that they didn't do anything major. It feels like it's continuing to haunt them. Kobe White, Dasunmu, who, oh my God. I mean, out of all the teams that could have trumped Minnesota's measly offer of four second round picks and our bus lottery pick for Dasunmu. I'm pretty sure Detroit could have topped that one in about five seconds. Right. It, maybe four seconds, three seconds. Like, um, Jenkins crashed back to earth. Yeah. That's another one. He played seven minutes, uh, in game Thompson, his stats are okay. But especially in the last six minutes of these games. And I would say the same for his brother. He's on the court dribbling around and it almost seems like he doesn't know where the basket is. He'll be just going this way and the baskets over here or backwards and just has once no part of shooting ever. And Cade's been awesome. I mean, if you said before the series, Cade's going to have a 31, five and eight through, through, uh, three games, you'd, you would think, Oh, Detroit, then Detroit, are they going for a sweep? What's going to happen? They just don't, they don't have any other crunch time offense. It's every fear we had about the Pistons all regular season when we were doing the yeah, buts. And look, let's just be clear. Like the magic are good. This is a tough matchup for Detroit. It's not, it's not like they're, I don't think they're like, hooking or this is a sort of like condemnation of their entire team construction. They're a young team with some obvious offensive warts playing a team that probably had a higher over under number than they did before the season. And so like, it's not entirely shocking that this has proven a tough series for them. Everything you said about a star Thompson is true. And they just, you know, I thought Orlando, uh, Detroit went at Duncan Robinson, uh, with a little bit more precision and intent, uh, in that game. And they need Duncan Robinson's offense on the floor to sort of loosen everything up. They just need Duran to play better. Like Duran being a 10.5 rebound, like, okay. Defensive player is there. They're going to lose this round. If that's, if that is what he ends up averaging. Yeah. You need the wildcard guy too. You know, like for the Lakers and we're taping this before game four, but canard has been something of a wildcard guy for them, right? You need that. Oh, I did like IO last night. Wow. 27 in the second half. We weren't expecting that. I don't know who Detroit's wow. We weren't expecting that guy is it's probably Duncan Robinson, but, um, they just never got the heat checking thing. I mean, it's a really interesting point you made about regular season versus playoffs because it's funny. You have in the East Orlando, a team that we were all disgusted by multiple points this year and really frustrated by. And then you have Minnesota who was the classic kept roping us in then making us feel stupid. And they'd be like, I'm out of Minnesota. Then they'd look awesome again. They'd rope you back in. And we just did the zigzag. For six months. And then if you just watch them in the playoffs, you would think was Jada McDaniels, the runner up to Wemby for defensive player of the year, or was it go bear where the, did those guys finish two and three? Um, and you see their bench and you just see the, the, the physicality and the intensity that they have. And I promise you, they did not look like that very often during the season, but they do now. They absolutely do. And, uh, I don't know if you want to talk about that series now, but let's, let's go to a break. Well, do a break. We'll come back and, uh, it's going to be a hard one for us. Nuggets Timberwolves going great. We'll talk about that next. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think, you know, a browser, but Gemini and Chrome that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online. Make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you propel with Gatorade electrolytes. I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox autobotulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. 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All right, Zach, game four, Nuggets Wolves, which gave us a terrible, deep Vincenzo Achilles injury that I didn't even see because I was watching the other game within a minute of the start. A really scary ant injury that seemed like it was the ACL because he was holding the side of his knee. Turns out hyperextension, but he's out for the round. Io is 43 in the game and 27 in the second half. And if you only watch this game, you would think he was one of the best 10 players in the league. We had a near brawl involving Jokic. Very entertaining. Involving the Joker, which is always all bets are off. And Julius Randle came in with a little like Stephen Jackson and the Artest melee kind of energy. I thought he was really going to escalate it. Huge fight in the stance. Lots of video from that. I didn't see that. There was a fight in the stance between Nuggets fans and Timberwolves fans. Big fight in the stance. You can go look that up. Wow. What a rivalry. It's even spilling into fandom. That's great. Maybe not great. I don't know if I didn't see the fight. Who knew that was a rivalry? Were there children involved? I hope not. I hope everyone's okay. Hopefully everyone's all right. We had ABC breaking into the game and forcing us to move to ESPN because they had to do an update about the White House dinner, the shooting there. And then after the game, someone stole Joker's underwear and he was really mad about it. Probably more mad than the loss. I don't know where you want to start, but this was probably the drunkest game of the year, replacing whatever the previous drunkest game of the year was. I want to start with the injuries to Minnesota because they're up 3-1 in this series. And if even just Ant were healthy, they would probably win the series, even though they only have the one home game left and be a dangerous team in the next round. And now Ant availability is in question for an unknown period of time. And DiVincenzo, the dude is just a winner and a gamer, played every game. He wins everywhere he goes. He's just such an awesome role player. And he's done so well there. That's a heartbreaker. And you knew it right away. You feared it right away. He knew it right away, it seemed like, when he was on the floor. So I want to start there because as appealing as it is to start with, is Jokic having the worst playoff series of his career? Is Denver, is their window already closed or closing right now for this core? What does that mean for the offseason? Those are the big questions. I might have to open a Michelob Ultra for this. I'm getting upset. I want to sit with the- I'm going to sit with the Timberwolves injuries for just a second because DiVincenzo is just classic central casting, beloved glue guy role player. And Ant is Ant, one of the faces of the league, one of the most explosive players in the league, a guy who plays both ends of the floor and has risen up in the playoffs every year that he's been there. And this team has a legit awesome top seven. They're starting five plus Io and Nas Reed. And then you go down below that and it's Bones has been playing well and whatever. But I'm just going to sit with the Timberwolves injuries for just a second. I'm getting upset. I'm going to sit with the Timberwolves injuries for just a second. And if they're harmed going into the second round, assuming they win this series, which I don't think is a done deal, by the way, that just, it just sucks. And all these injuries sucks. And when Castle went out in that game earlier today with the hand injury, I'm like, I'm just don't want to, I can't watch this anymore. Yeah. And DiVincenzo is out next year. The timing of these, when you, when you get March, April, May range, you're also out for the next season. I would assume unless he's on some crazy Tatum timeline that would put them back. Yeah. And I guess, I don't know, he would have to get lucky. I know he flew to New York today and got the surgery, but the thing with him, other than your top seven point, he would swing two halves the series just by getting hot. It felt like, and I thought he was a great wild card. Like, oh my God, Dante's heating up. He's not afraid of this moment. And so somebody is going to have to fill that spot. Yeah. I should have clarified by top seven. I'm including DiVincenzo and now he's gone. And so we're going to see more Mike Conley. I was very happy by the way, that Mike Conley, through this all had a moment, had a moment in a big, big game. And, and Shannon got in. I think they're going to need, they're just going to need other guys to just fill time. Now the ant thing was the least surprising injury of the first round because he did not, except for Aaron Gordon, because it did not look healthy. You could tell something was wrong with his knee and he was also playing a hundred percent, not favoring it at all. And then afterwards kind of be like, ow, that still hurts. And, um, it was just scary. It was scary to watch play by play. Cause he was clearly not healthy, but playing like he was healthy. Well, and, but that's the crazy thing about these two wins from Minnesota is ant was in foul trouble and, and not great in game three. Ant was doing like pretty much nothing. Like he wasn't even that involved in the offense before he got hurt in game four and they still win both games. And I'm glad you brought up Aaron Gordon because you know, he deserves credit for trying to gut out that game, but it, he just was scary. It was, he was just jogging lightly. On his feet. And he summoned a couple of big jumps for a rebound and for a challenge at the rim. And both times I would. I was like, oh, no, is this like it was not. And without him and Watson, they're just too small. They're too small for the Timberwolves. They don't have enough force. They don't have enough oomph. And like, that's not an excuse. It just is. It is what it is. And now there's just injuries scattered across the series. And one of these teams is going to win four games and go on to the next round and face the Spurs, by the way, then be a show of themselves. But by the way, I mean, you go back to that Spurs Nuggets regular season finale, like the Nuggets shouldn't even be playing the Timberwolves. Like both of those teams had it lined up for them. And they I don't I don't know what happened. I mean, it's not like the Nuggets played all their best. David Roddy and all those guys happen. They just start. They just play their worst guys played really well for about a half an hour. That's when you start being like, hey, David Roddy, if you ever wanted to take 12 left handed threes and a half, like have have at it. Go watch some Mark Madsen film at halftime from game eight. Like you got to lose that game. And the Spurs should have been like, well, we'll help. I talked about that a couple of pods ago. That not only swung this series, but it swung that Lakers Rockets whole situation in a crazy way where the Lakers just would have gotten, I think, dusted by somebody. And instead, we have this next chapter in LeBron's legacy. And Marcus Smart's rejuvenated. Luke Kennard is back. The Rockets are a complete mess. Darren Gordon thing. Regardless, he looks like he's done and it completely changes whatever the ceiling was for Denver. I thought they're going to make the finals. I don't think they're going to make the finals with how he looks. But there's some some other stuff, though. There's a lot. There is a lot to unpack. Well, the IO thing. How long were we on the trade deadline pod? We did talking about how fucking stupid that trade was and trying to get. We weren't the only ones. I'm not. I'm not claiming the territory by ourselves. Joining us were probably everybody else who has a podcast and watches basketball. Everyone who watched the Chicago Bulls fairly regularly to regularly. This guy was a good basketball player and he was on a cheap contract. And these guys should be the hardest people to trade for. And they got him for four second rounders. And it was just immediately clear. He was the perfect guy to add for them. And I don't know where a bunch of teams were with this. I don't understand how you get this guy for four second runners. With that said. The stuff he's doing offensively. I did not know. I did not know he had this. Like he was unstoppable. Unstoppable. Denver was like gearing their defense. To try to stop him and couldn't stop him. I did not know he could do this. I mean, if I don't know when the first time stamp is of me saying the Timberwolves should trade for IO to sumo do. But it's like in the fall. It was that obvious. And I and I do feel like imagine being a Bulls fan where almost everything that happens in the NBA playoffs ends up being a joke at your expense. Like, oh, this guy was just on the Bulls. Like you had him on your team. You don't have a lot going for you. You had him. And you're like, yeah, you know what? We're going to have to pay him. It's like Minnesota just gets him. And yeah, I mean, he's he's just a very good player and he fits them well. And he shot 45% on threes this year. But I did not. I mean, it was the IO show from from start to second half. Also, another guy. And this is a recurring theme in all these series. Like just an incredibly competitive guy who really seems to respect and treasure being on the big stage. You know, like you've seen a bunch of these guys talk about this. Barnes is another one. Like, I've really I've really grown to admire Barnes. Barnes is like, I'll fucking die to win this series. I'll do anything it takes. I'm so happy to be here in the playoffs. And I was another one. I think I was this guy who probably watched the playoffs in April, May and June every year. I was like, fuck, I really want to be in the playoffs. I'm on the Bulls. Why am I on the Bulls? They're my hometown team. I know. But so anyway, I'm happy for him. And he really fits in with the kind of mentality and energy of this team. And Jada McDaniel. You know, he's a great guy. He's a great guy. I watched something on the social media today of all the people he's like kind of battled with and gone at. He has no respect for anybody like this would have been the guy who went at Kobe and Jordan if he was, you know, in those eras. He'd have been like, fuck these guys. I'm not afraid of these guys. And this is the best he's ever played. So to to do all this when you have a compromised aunt who then goes out of the game in game four and still feel like they're probably going to beat Denver is pretty crazy. Just a total gutsy performance by the Wolves. Gobert has been sensational the entire series. Sensational. There are a few other things that need to be remarked on in this game. That Gobert took a three. Well, OK, I was going to go. We need to deep dive the end of the game. But at some point. But Gobert takes that three. I mean, they're all they're up 13 with six minutes left. That is such an insulting shot. That's like a shot you you would take if you're up 30. Yeah. Two and a half minutes left. They're up. That's like a. That's a very like winnable game for Denver in most circumstances. And Gobert taking that there was like 17 on the shot clock. He took it. That was so disrespectful. And I mean this in a good in a good and fun way. That was just like we have you. We know we have you. I'm just going to give myself a 15 percent chance to have the target center just combust. If I make this shot, that was so disrespectful. I loved it. You know, it wasn't even a heat check three. It was like a somebody driving home and they just. Decided to drive the car with their feet on the steering wheel and stick their head through the sunroof. It was one of those moves. It's like, watch this, guys. Like, that's how confident he was. They were winning the game. It was like a scene to put it in your language. It was like a seven way parlay. It was like Adam Sandler in uncut gems betting on like KG winning the jump ball and five five other things happening at once. And he was like, fuck it. I'm doing it. We're only up 13. Yeah. If they lost. Imagine if they lost. We would look back at that and be like, why did you what happened? You know what? The funniest thing about that shot was I thought it was going in. It looked good. It had this kind of energy for the Timberwolves where it's like, ah, that's probably fucking going in the way this is going from Minnesota. But yeah, that the what McDaniels has done in this series and now how many miles he's put on Murray combined with what Gobert has done to Joker. You know, I was on a lot of texts today. I have a lot of people in my life. They know who they are, who get really mad when I compare Joker to Bird of Magic and that I voted for him for MVP and all that. So there's a lot of people I heard from today. I don't have to name them. And you want to do this now? Or did you have more from this game? No, let's do it now. You're you feel it. I feel like you're on the therapist couch and you're ready to go. So let's go. It's four games in the series. I'm not ready to say that this is one of the big disasters of all time. I will say if they get knocked out of this series and he's looked the way he's looked, it does feel like the best player alive. The door is going to open and somebody's going to be able to walk into that room now and be declared the new person. I mean, I have voted. I voted. I didn't vote, but I didn't have a vote. I had Shea MVP and Shea's been number one in Ringer 100 the last two or three times. Isn't that already happened? Deep in the recesses of recesses of your soul. You thought Joker was the best player in the league. No, I mean, like Shea took the belt. I think this season after the injury, the injury is like a line of demarcation. The injury on December 30th when Jokic got hurt. He has not been the same guy since. And I think Shea has been the best player since then. Period. No, no caveats. No. Like, well, if I had to win a game, blah, blah, blah. I think he's just been the best guy. By the way, we're probably not going to talk about it because it's a boring series. What he did to Phoenix in game three yesterday was like, how did my notes 15, 15 for 18 was like shit talking. He was straight up majestic and like they couldn't do anything with him. And defensively, he's a game changing. He makes some game changing plays here and there. It just, but okay. I'm sorry. I interrupted the Jokic, uh, uh, cope. Well, this is a six year run. Six started in 20. They come back and they beat Utah, right? They come back from in the bubble. That was kind of the arrival playoffs. So seven years, really six, they lose two because of the Murray injury. He wins three MVP. They win one title that's going to start to, oh, they won one title, but look who they played and people are going to do that. Um, he's 31 years old. I wouldn't say he's going to have a LeBron type of physical arc of staying in shape until his late thirties and, and being incredible. God only knows what he's going to look like at age 35, 36. The bigger thing for me is the team around him. I really worry like this is like really it for him as a game. He's a contender. If they can't get out of the first round this year, Gordon's year 13 next year. God only knows what he's going to be like physically, whatever we saw from cam Johnson this year, uh, can't say I was impressed. I went from thinking that was a steal of a trade to wondering like, would Michael Porter jr have actually maybe helped them in this series? People. I said it from John. I know you did. I know people disrespected Michael Porter jr. The analysis of that trade. And then, uh, and then Tim Hardaway, like the biggest. Part of this game, Denver was like, felt like they were going to come back multiple times in that fourth quarter. Hardaway's in the corner, takes a three. It hits the side of the backboard. Like, I think it would have cut the game to like four or six next play cam Johnson or that the next time they have a cam Johnson's wide open on the side. Same thing. Missed a three. Like Murray was the only guy that hit a three in the second half of the ministry. He had to, everybody else is over 11. So the supporting cast has been bad. Here's what I don't understand Zach for the season. They were first. An MB in a offense, one 21.3 for by possessions, a hundred possessions. Their offense is one Oh 5.2. three in the playoffs. They're last in three-point shooting in the playoffs. They're 16th, shooting 28.5. They're 40% field goal, 15th. They're not really turning the ball over. They're second best in turnovers, and they're first to get in the line. They're 33 free throw attempts a game. And the offense just looks awful. There was one stat I saw on Reddit. Denver on open shots is 8 for 36 in the playoffs, and on wide open shots, they're 20 for 57. I don't understand what happened to their offense, and I can't think it's just Gordon. And I can't think Gobert and McDaniels, as good as they've been, are this good. Like, they've completely shut down an offense that was humming the entire season. I don't really get it. Well, I mean, a lot of the open shots are Christian Brown and Spencer Jones and Jokic threes, which they're giving them. Which don't go in anymore for some reason. And Aaron Gordon on one leg jump shots. So they're open, but they're like not, it's not like Steph Curry's out there shooting catch and shoot threes. I'm glad you brought this up, though, because when the Nuggets fail, everybody wants to clown on Jokic's defense, which is hit or miss, obviously. Their defense has actually been fine in this series for the most part. They're losing because they have absolutely no answers for Minnesota's defense. And it's shocking to see Denver out of answers, because they were the number one offense in the NBA this season. There were nights where it looked so easy for them. And the Wolves have just taken them completely out of their game. And they've taken the Jokic, Gobert, with a great team of defenders around him, has taken Jokic totally out of his rhythm, totally out of his usual game. And the way I was looking at the tracking data over the weekend, this is before game four, because I was curious, having watched game three, his post-ups are down. Like, he just doesn't want to post up against Gobert. Like, every minute that he's out there with Nas Reid or Julius Randall on him, they should be going to him in the post. And yet they weren't. In the third quarter, Gobert was out of the game for a while, and I kept waiting. For Jokic to take over. And he was just getting the ball 30 feet from the hoop, and they were running split cuts and all this stuff that looks nice. But it's like, dude, you have Julius Randall and Nas Reid on you. You should be like, this is your time. And then he's also not rolling to the rim nearly as often. And I don't know if it's. I don't know what it is, but I think he knows that they're trying to take that away, and he's just not doing it. And when he's not doing it, he's not compromising their defense at all. And I don't know if there was one play in game three that's he finally rolled hard to the rim. And he got the ball in the spot where we've seen him make a floater 5,000 times. And he went up for it. And Gobert was in the neighborhood rotating around. And in midair, Jokic dumped it down to Christian Brown, who was kind of like right under the rim, but couldn't go up because Gobert was there. And the possession died out after that. And that play and combined with him, if you look at the tracking data, him rolling to the rim a lot, or rolling into the paint, rolling at all. Like, he's just popping and staying put. Doing that less often has me wondering, like, they're just in his head. Gobert is in his head. He's out of rhythm. He's not playing the way he usually does. And all those pet paint shots are gone. Vaporized. And the Timberwolves have completely taken him out of his game. I agree with everything you just said and I would add this. And this goes to the taking him out of his game. They figured out a way to speed him up to just like, almost like a podcast where Jokic is like, I like when, I like when my podcasts are at 1-2. I'm a 1.2 guy. That's what I am. I like to play at that speed. And the Timberwolves have sped him up to 1-5. And where I've really noticed it is on defensive rebounds when he's like trying to he had a couple of the crazy turnovers that he hasn't had since like the 2010s in the second half of that game where it's like he's afraid McDaniels is going to come from behind or Io or somebody and they're going to swipe the ball from him. So he's getting these balls and he's like, like a bad-ass hell going up the thing or trying to do these quick passes and he's not, he doesn't have that same calm pace that he always had. Like they've, they've just discombobulated him. And the thing I was telling to the people that were making fun of me today in my life, like people have had bad series, right? And every single great player we've ever had has had a lousy series. Yeah. Tragic Johnson. Kobe had the 0-4 against the Pistons was a classic. Bird had a couple stinkers, like the 88 Pistons series is bad. Every Jordan against Orlando in 95, everybody has them. I'm just surprised it happened right now for Jokic with what we had seen this year. Cause I really felt like he in a lot of ways, I, you know, I know he got injured. He came back. We were worried about him, but I really felt like he had his mojo back. And, uh, I thought this team knew what it was. Now you look at him, it's like Valanchunas doesn't play anymore. They don't really have a backup point guard. Um, it's just a bad matchup for them. And sometimes that happens in basketball. So they're favored on Fandle for game five. They're favored by 10 and a half in game five. Oh, with the injuries. Sure. Yeah. I think that's still too. I think the way they're playing, I thought it would be like minus six. I mean, I don't know what's going to happen with Aaron Gordon. Just eye test. Like, and the fact that he didn't come back in the game in the second half after he went out, like I would just plan on him. I'm mentally planning on him not playing. Uh, and that, that seems like too many points, but you brought up a very important point though. Whereas as much as you want to make this about Jokic and that's, he deserves all the criticism. Like Gobert has eaten his lunch and taken him out of the game. Jokic and Murray scored 54 points in game four. The rest of the team scored 32. I'm sorry, 42. Um, and Cam Johnson has been nothing. Christian Brown has been nothing. That's two of your starters giving you, giving you zero Watson's obviously not playing. And I think there's a real discussion to be had. I don't know if now is the time to do it because we haven't got to the end of the game, which I found delightful. Are you doing this? No, there's just a real discussion to be had about Oklahoma and San Antonio are who they are. And did Denver just flat out miss its chance at a second ring? Is the window closed for them? Because Murray and Jokic are getting older. Gordon, it just, I think you just have to assume that he's just not going to be healthy for six straight weeks in the playoffs ever again. I mean, the evidence suggests that they're and the rest of their team is just not performing up to the level it needs to perform. And it just you do like things happen fast in the NBA. You mentioned 21 Murray hurt 22 Murray hurt 23. They win the title 24. They'll always regret blowing that lead in game seven at home against Minnesota, because I think that had been favorites over Dallas in the next round and favorites over Boston in the finals perhaps over that, you know, that would have been a good match obviously. That would have been the Boston probably would have been favorite, but that was the most important thing. That was the most important thing. And, you know, I think that was the most important thing that we could have done. I think that was the most important thing that we could have done. I think that was the most important that was a very clear, like we're choosing you over Peyton Watson, or if we have to choose one and whatever variables line up, we're choosing you. And Peyton Watson flat out outplayed him when he was healthy this year. And now he becomes a free agent and they are already like apron troubled. And I don't know what they're going to do. This really makes me sad. I do respect, like if Yoko is just going to go down my favorite non-Seltic to watch other than maybe Curry, if he's going to go down this way, I want it to go down this way, like Terminator two style with the falling into the pit, putting his hand up down three, one, just like one last 37, 15 and 17 and just doing everything. Murray is playing well in this series. I think they just, I just need, unfortunately against Minnesota, you're going to need more than that. Wow. So you're already, you've already poured dirt on. No, no, no, no, no. Listen, it's the best guy in the league. No, it's fine. I said that they could still win the series. No, you're an SGA now. You're an SGA guy. Oh, will you stop? You love foul baiting. You're a foul baiter now. Okay. All right. No, that's who you are. It's fine. Look, if I could bait fouls, I would bait fouls. I can't though. I'm also, I'm just at flat. I'm just an injury risk at this point for any, any running sporting event. I'm going to get you an okay. Okay. Okay. FC hat. Is that a thing? No, I'm trying to make the thing. No. Okay. See, they're clearly it's Shay's time now. And if they went back to back, I think whoever emerges from that, okay. See San Antonio series will be the best part in the league. That's who we will feel has the belt. And that's just how it's going to go. Can we do three minutes on the end of the game? Yeah. McDaniels, Jokic. Yeah. First of all, I hope nobody gets suspended. I hate when this stuff happens, when they do the film about, did someone leave the bench? As you pointed out over text, I think the players thought the game had ended. I thought the game had ended. Everyone thought the game had ended, but there's one person that's not getting any credit here that I would like to give a little credit to. Mike Conley threw that pass ahead to Jaden McDaniels when he absolutely did not have to, he could have just dribbled out the clock or dribbled up to half court. And I think Mike Conley has a little bit of shit disturber in him. It was like, let's see what happens if I throw this pass up to Jaden McDaniels. And you could see Jokic watching. Like as soon as that pass went, Jokic turned his back to the hoop that he was shooting at and just watched Jaden McDaniels. It was like waiting. You're going to do it, motherfucker. You're actually going to do it. And then he did it. But I want to give Mike Conley a lot of credit for starting the whole thing. Maybe inadvertently, maybe slightly vertently. I don't know, but that's a great pass by Mike Conley. He had another assist in an illustrious career. It's a great Mike Conley comeback. Point guard Mike Conley. Joker running at you, full speed, angry. It's not what I want to see. He's first team all NBA with, I'm trying to think other ones, Isaiah Stewart. Isaiah Stewart is in a league of his own. Jalen Duren. It's probably the top three. Two of them are on Detroit. I did enjoy McDaniels. McDaniels when he was asked about it was like, I didn't know what was happening. I just know someone big as hell was coming at me. I'm like, yep, that's, that's right. McDaniels, his energy has, I think, really spoken for this Timberwolves team. Who's clearly knew they were playing with Edwards, not at a hundred percent. And they're still carrying themselves. The other take I just want to have on this, if you will allow me. Yeah. Is Denver Nuggets, Nicole Jokic, David Adelman, all of you. Stop whining. The guy scored a layup against you in garbage time. You're that upset about it? Like, how about just don't go to garbage time? How about try to play better during the run of the game? The unwritten rules. Like, it's not like he did a windmill dunk 360. Just put the ball in the hoop. I think it was that it was him of all the people that did it. Well, then just take the L because the guy talked shit about your entire roster, backed it up and made a layup in garbage time. Then you like get all mad about it. It's come on. The game's going on. He made a layup. Big deal. He doesn't get to see scores. He's not like a, you know, he wants an extra. Two points. You'll be surprised to know. I completely agree. And I thought Adam and seemed like a loser in the press conference. And by the way, him talking about wondering where, when the, when the, all the nuggets fans, everybody who watches this team is like, where the, where's the fight? Why are you guys rolling over like this? What are we watching? Where, where is like the pride that we've watched last six years? And Adam is like, what do you mean? I thought we were competitive. I had it in my notes in the game in the last, like from like, minute four to minute two of the fourth quarter. The like, not, not the very end, but they're a little stretch there before the very end. They seem to start playing harder than they had played. Particularly on offense. Like they started executing with a lot more zip and a lot more force. And to the point that I put it in my notes, it's like, where it's too late. It's too late now. Well, do you think Adam is coaching this team next year? If they get bounced in five or six? Cause I do not. Who the hell knows with these coaching changes? I mean, Tiago splitter can't get a job. These guys are all getting, who the hell knows what these coaching decisions anymore. Billy Donovan's like, Hey guys, do you have a top six or seven player in the league? Cause I would love to have that opportunity to coach somebody really good. You know who did it right? Monty Williams took all the money, got fired and was like, you know what I'm going to do? Just nothing. How about I just coach high school, coach my sons. You can keep paying me eight figures a year for as many years as the contract goes on. That's what Billy, that Billy Donovan. I don't know. I mean, I think. I don't think, I don't think people are knocking on Monty's door. There's been a couple of people that have just like, will Adrian Griffin ever coach again? There's a couple of these guys that just come and go and we'll never see them again. I guess. That was a bad ending. Adrian Griffin. Anyway, that's nuggets. Wolves. I think there's my only thing to add from your last, from that brawl was, uh, I just really want to encourage people to go back and look at Randall going to another level. I don't, I actually really thought he was going to take a swing at somebody and get, uh, ejected. So we'll see if they have suspensions. I watched it again today. Um, many times he seemed under control, under control to me and just incredibly strong. My takeaway from that was Julius Randall is just so fucking strong that if he gets into these scrums, the whole scrum is moving in whatever Julius Randall, whatever direction he's pushing, that's where it's going. You think, you know, a browser, but Gemini and Chrome that's new, it can help you with practically anything. On the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Makes sense. There's no place like Chrome check responses, set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels? You propel with Gatorade electrolytes. All right. Nick talks really quickly. It was absolute panic time after game three for the Knicks fans. I know, you know, a lot of them. I know a lot of them too. I was just shocked by, um, the angst Nick's come out. Guess what? When the Knicks have the lead for most of the game, pretty fun ride. They took the lead early, kept their up by 10, 11, 12, 15, eight. 12. Uh, and never gave it up that only things that I noticed other than that they weren't playing from behind was they won more 50, 50 balls. They played through towns a little bit more. It was, you know, it wasn't like he took 40 shots and they gave us a whiff of Alvarado. Yep. But the big, the big thing was that Atlanta just sucked. I thought they were just awful. Um, it was a Butterfingers game. I watched with, uh, your old Grant land teammate, Rembrandt Brown. Oh, poor Rem. Every time he's come over, uh, I think he's come over for an Atlanta loss regardless of the sport. And we were just saying is this is a Butterfingers game. Every 50, 50, you could just tell they're going to lose it. Guys in traffic. They're just going to lose it. Rebounds bouncing off hands, going to the Knicks. And they just really sucked. Um, 10 for 41 from three for Atlanta. And I thought the Knicks were leaving Daniels and Jalen Johnson and a Congo. Basically, if you want to shoot that, you're open for, for a reason. Good luck. Well, they should, I mean, that should be, you know, the Hawks want to get into the paint and knife around in there and get to the rim and they should go under on screens when they can for all those guys. And it's on the Hawks to make it hard through disguise and creativity and all that for them to do that. But I think the next two wins in this series have been two of their very best defensive games of the whole season. And towns has been pretty sound defensively throughout the whole series and including in those two games. And I understand the angst if you're a Knicks fan, because this is just on paper, they should be up three one. This should just be a run of the mill favorite over underdog has a chance to close it out in five first round series. And in the middle of their two pretty emphatic wins are two one point losses, both of which they could have, should have had multiple chances to win and didn't partly thanks to CJ McCollum being unbelievable, partly thanks to some puzzling coaching decisions, partly thanks to the Hawks being good. But this doesn't feel like it should be three one Knicks and just we're barely thinking about the series because it goes the way. These series tend to go. And now can I say two and a half to one and a half? That's fine. They better win the game five because you think it was angsty going into game game four. If they're down three to go on to Atlanta, look out. Bench karma was great for the series. Atlanta is 32% from three. Daniels is, I'm sorry, Jalen Johnson's 28%. Daniels is 14%. Kaminga is 18%. Kaminga, I want to single out for being singularly horrific in game four. That was just really just. It was like throwing a grenade on the court. He just couldn't have been worse. We've also seen the flip side of that when he comes in and he's awesome. That's just who he is. He's trick or treat. It was a trick in that game. But I just wrote down in bold. I do think the Hawks blew their window for this series. I think they could have, if they had come out and thrown a couple punches and made some threes and gotten in the crowd into it and gotten the Knicks a little nervous, I would have been really interested to see what happened in the second half. But they did not do any of that. And here's the only, I mean, the Knicks are an endlessly fascinating puzzle to me. They look great for one game, great for two games, crappy for one game. You never know what is going to happen with them. The one thing I would say about the Hawks and their chances is I still didn't love the way the Knicks half-court offense looked in that game, despite the fact that the same simple play of Jalen Brunson setting a back screen for OG and Anobi in the corner worked like 17 times as if the Hawks were just like, I guess we just can't adjust to this. We're just going to let OG. We dunk eight more times. And I looked up the numbers because it seemed to me like the Knicks were just, just every transition chance they had to your point about 50, 50 balls. And if you go to cleaning the glass, their half-court points for possession in that game was like average-ish and transition. It like breaks my laptop when I bring up their transition points for possession. That's like, that's, that's the Josh Hart stuff, right? I mean, that's the stuff that he brings. And I mean, I mean, the other thing is it's not like the McKill Bridges question was really answered. He made 19 minutes in that game, even though Mike Brown started him. And didn't you think it was weird when Mike Brown was like, I'm not going to tell you who's starting, but whatever decision is made is my decision. I'm like, did anyone think like, did anyone think it was not going to be your decision? Like what question are you answering right now? Rick Brunson was in play. Maybe that was a speaking to Rick. Um, Bridges has reached the, it's a bonus if he does anything in these games, part of his contribution. He's going to have to go back to the season, it feels like, but the flip side is OG has been so good and so awesome that the seesaw, the OG Bridges seesaw is now like this, but OG has been so good. They're almost okay with it because they're getting the, what they're getting from heart. I was, I never understood why they gave up on Alvarado. I know that he wasn't, um, hitting threes for weeks on end and had become unplayable, but I just think in a playoff series, he's annoying. And he's the kind of guy who can come in in the second quarter and somebody like CJ McCollum, who's going to be the guy who's going to be the guy who's going to be the guy who's going to be the guy who's going to be the guy who's going to be the guy who's like, God damn it. I hate going against this guy. This is not going to be a fun five minutes. And I think I really value those guys in a series. Well, first of all, he had a, uh, just an all time great grand theft Alvarado in the game. Second of all, um, you just have to add them to your list of when you act, when you go through it, guards, the Houston rockets could have, and didn't trade for, uh, that might have helped right now list. I mean, that's, that list is a hundred deep. It's pretty deep. It's pretty deep. Colin Sexton is like, I mean, watching these games, like, I mean, I couldn't really Colin Sexton is like, I was right here. Like I won't, I won't throw the ball away if we're up by six. Well, I think what's funny and maybe not funny about the rockets is keeping Van Vliet because he was so important as a locker room guy and he wanted to be there and you don't want to put them in a trade and which I get that's, that's great. But who has a worse locker room and chemistry than the rockets? Maybe they could have afforded to trade Van Vliet for somebody who could dribble the ball and protect a six point lead with 30 seconds left bridges for the series is 7.3 points a game. OG is averaging a 21 and nine and he's shooting 52% from three and feels like he's hit nine huge threes with the shot clock expiring and the Knicks have having nothing going on. Just, just bailing them out. So we talked before game four and you were talking about, we were talking about emergency pods, all kinds of stuff. If the Knicks were down three, one and a game five, you, it was conceivable that the Knicks were going to be down three, one heading into a game five to the, to our earlier points. Yeah, it was in the air. You could feel it. I think game five is going to be an awesome game. If we're talking about what's going to be the most compelling game fives and we're taping this before these last two games that happened today, but these are game, these are game fours. So, right. Um, Minnesota, Minnesota, Denver game. Five is obviously a must watch with a lot of like big picture, Yoko's legacy stuff at sake. And I think Nick's Hawks would be the other kind of must watch for me or Orlando Detroit. They don't even have a, we have a game four coming up because that series has been a little staggered, but Nick's Hawks, like, I still feel like the Hawks could just shoot better and hang around with them and then just try to get it to the last three minutes. And I felt the same way with you about the next half court offense. I mean, it's going to be a fascinating game. I'm hoping to be there and, um, you got to go to that one. I would, I would demand you go. My credential application has been filed. Um, and we'll see, uh, these games get crowded and all that. But, uh, do you want me to talk to Bobby Bacala and who are the other Sopranos that go? I don't know about the other Sopranos, but I, I mean, the Knicks have more celebrity fans than the Lakers somehow. Now I'm going to call Modine, see if there's extra tickets. He hasn't been there. I haven't seen him there in a while when we give her, yeah, get some tickets. Get Susie on the, on the horn. Um, you got to go to that one. Uh, but no, I mean like the East is again, who, who wants this conference? Other than, well, I mean, we're taping this before Boston Philly. If Boston blows the crap out of Philly, we'll do that in the first segment. Cause Boston will give us right now. It's 11 to 10. So we got to go pretty soon. I got to do a really quick parent corner with you before we go shoot. So Amazon prime, they do the thing where if it's like three devices are using it, they shut one down or four, I forget what the number is. So my, my daughter's using my Amazon prime, which is fine. Cause she's my daughter. I'm sure yours will be in college someday using your Amazon or one of your other streamers. And I was using two different ones because there's two games going on and it logged me out of one of the things. And it was because my dad was logged into my Amazon. So to call my dad, my dad's like, well, I can't get Amazon unless I'm on your Amazon. And I'm like, but dad, you, you have Amazon prime. I do. Yeah. You guys have Amazon prime. That's when you get packages or you send stuff like you pay for Amazon prime. I'm positive. And he's like, but that, so my Amazon prime would get me the games. I'm like, yeah, you have Amazon prime, which would allow you to use Amazon prime to then watch the game on your Amazon prime. So we walked through this at my mom. My wife and I were on speaker, just like ridiculing him. Oh, that's not nice. No, we love to make fun of my dad, but I realized they should be doing PSAs. I really think they should. Amazon prime should have a whole ad campaign. Like the game is on Amazon prime. And guess what? You have it. You actually paid for it. The more, you know, you already have Amazon prime, go to it, hear the button. Then look, the game is going to be on there. You don't have to steal it from your. Kids. So I just, the streamers things, it's been really Rocky this first year, not knowing what games are on. I did. I went to three before I landed on ESPN for the first game today. Um, it's like a little game show. Uh, my 83 year old father has figured it out. He could, they, they come over for big, they call it for dinner every once, at least once a week. And they were, I think they came Thursday and he was like, Hey, are the, are all the games on prime tonight? And I was like, yeah, it's like, you know what? I'm good. I'm good. Let me give it a try. See, see, see how, see how, how it goes. I'm like, okay, you don't, you don't have to call my, my younger sister is the one who usually does the gets old dicey. No, she does the tech aid to the parents. Um, like I can't get on the zoom kind of stuff. Uh, but he figured it out and was watching the games. I think it's been a real problem in bars because I mentioned this on a podcast about bars and hotels recently and got a few emails from people who were talking about being at a crowded bar with people. And I was like, I'm not going to be at a bar with people. I'm going to be at a bar with people. 327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana call 877-770-7867. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. Before this, there's this. 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