185: Embergard Tier List Part 2

[Music] Hello and welcome back to Path to Glory, the Warhammer Underworld's podcast that focuses on competitive gaming, player development and community growth. I'm your host George, also known as Kyros, joined once again as usual by Mark, also known as Baconborn. How you doing today Mark? Yeah, I'm doing pretty well, glad we're able to keep struggling with the cheer list. And at least for now as a recording, we've not yet been interrupted by any form of our FAQ update. So we'll see if we can keep that train going until the end here. Yeah, we might regret that. I think a lot of us probably have our fingers crossed for something to drop tomorrow. No, a special reason it should come tomorrow, but just speaking for myself, I was hopeful something would come this week before several qualifier events. This is coming holiday weekend for us in the States. But if that does happen, it'll just make editing this episode feel that much sillier. And if nothing happens, it'll be valid that much longer. So yes, we're continuing our tier list episode series moving into the beat here up from the seat here that you may have listened to a couple episodes ago. This time, I'm going to do things the right way and start at the bottom of the list, not the top, although with my usual caveat that I find it difficult to rank things too strictly within a tier. And while we are presenting them in an order that is roughly how we perceive their power. I think there's quite a bit of wiggle room situationally within any two warbends you take a look at that said before we get started. Of course, I would like to thank our patrons. Path to glory is supported by its patrons and they support us at patreon.com/path to glory. A very special thank you to our producers at the assassin tier, Sam'ski, John O'Charge and Padre. Thank you guys so much for your support. It means a lot. It helps us do this for you. And of course, last but certainly not least, a very special thank you to our executive producer at the wizard tier, Val. Really keeping the light on for us. Thank you so much. Of course, if you are unable to or don't want to support us monetarily, that's okay. We appreciate your likes, your listens and your engagement with us. Jump in our discord. Let us know if there's anything you want to hear that you're not hearing. Let us know what you do like hearing. And throw up some of those five star ratings if you haven't already. As always, thank you. But now we're going to get into the episode. So to start it off, let's just go with our definition of what we consider a B tier war band. Mark, do you want to hit that for me? So as we mentioned on the first episode, everything in the B tier is kind of what we consider to be solid. So things that have competitive viability and they're not going to put you out of big disadvantage if you want to bring them to a tournament. So they'll have like an appropriate ceiling appropriately high ceiling, but they do tend to have a little bit lower of floor them when we're talking about the A and S tier war bands. We're certain matchups can hold them back or they have some exploitable weaknesses that other war bands and higher tiers do not have. But otherwise, as long as you have kind of the reps in with them and you're skilled enough working with these war bands, they can pilot you to victory at an event. So that's kind of our general definition of the B tier here. And as you might imagine for the second edition, the B tier is going to be relatively wide at this point. Yes, in this case, B, among other things, stands for big as in it is the biggest tier on our list, which is in general a good sign of relatively healthy balance for the game that a majority of war bands do fall into this gray area where the single biggest difference maker will tend to be the pilot starting with the bottom of the B tier. I'm going to keep the iteration rolling with black powders, buccaneers, they have suffered ever since their first release. And while they've got quite a lot of good stuff going for them and can do some very nasty things. They're just not quite there. Right, Mark? Yeah, I think black powder himself now feels appropriately spooky in this edition, eight health being the most in the game at the moment. And then of course, taxing some pretty good attack actions, especially when inspired going to three hammers three damage on his range one. And then four swords very respectable at range three and he can just keep blasting regardless of whether or not he has swag now, which is very nice. I just think cagey and pegs once again are letting the war band down pretty considerably. They really don't do a whole lot. They're very fragile that don't even inspired a two dodge anymore. Shrieking manger relatively respectable, but think you're just a little too reliant on black powder doing everything for you. So you do have positional tools in the game right now. There's a lot of teleports. If you do like a blazing pillage pairing, which is very legitimate with him. I just think the rest of the supporting cast isn't really doing anything anymore, especially without any of the movement economy that we used to see where you could activate one model and then push another that's no longer available to the war band. Yeah, in many ways, the war band is just the big man himself and he's as you said, quite a big man, but he will suffer because he can't be into places at once. He is still killable, although it's a tall order and you're going to have to start working on that fairly early if you want to take him down. Just the worst call doesn't really do a whole lot to let you play differently. It gives you swag that you spend on these abilities, but that's it. And those abilities only do something when your leader is shooting. So even more than previously, I think you're kind of sitting there looking him like, well, this guy has to do the heavy lifting, but he can only charge once in a round. And well, you do get those nice games off where he gets to counter charge or just push around with commanding stride, candy sapper and just murder stuff. White is consistent is stuff at the higher end, but still you can make him work. You can put the reps in. I want to emphasize again that the relative placement within the tier is firstly a inexact science. And secondly, I would not be surprised for the bottom of a beat here to have a war band showing up with a pilot bringing them and winning with them any more than I would at the top wraps up our first entry in the beat here. We have a little bit here. We have the metrics profiteers. So kind of an old favorite of mine just from an aesthetic perspective. It was kind of the thing that got me into warhammer under worlds in the first place. And I think there's some aspects of them which you can look at. And so these these make a lot of sensing the context of what they did in the first edition and what they do now. Shooting is obviously still a pretty big focus for the war band things like one going to four hammers on range for on his on his attack is pretty insane. But they do I think generally find themselves in this arena because they do struggle for consistent damage output, especially if Kazgan goes down early enough. You don't have any source of three damage and neatly in the war band after that. And even the ones who can do two damage are not particularly accurate at just two hammers. So I think with how key bounty centric the game has become they do find themselves lagging behind a little bit. But the no push when not adjacent thing when they're on a treasure token is really nice. It can actually I think surprise some people when you come across them on the table, especially if you're not familiar with how they play. Yeah, that's an excellent shout on the damage issue. I think that they have a phenomenal tool on their war scroll in the form of their kind of reusable main ability. And of course the explosive inspiration can be very potent thing, but they are hurting for stats a little bit. They're hurting for wounds a little bit while I think every dwarf player ever is fairly happy that the two wound guys got bumped to start at three. It's a bit rough that some of the dudes that inspired to for no longer do and of course no one hurts more on that than Kazgan himself now deprived of his precious last name. And even thunder himself has dropped a wound on his inspired side. So they do find themselves vulnerable to just getting blasted early. And as always can just really suffer if the leader gets taken off the table before they get rolling with their inspiration. So you have to be very careful against things like Emberwatch, which is of course difficult. And last but not least, I think they are just hurting for the right sort of deck pairing right now. I think that you look at their war school ability and you say, okay, well, these guys want to play Emberstone, but the surges in Emberstone are not what Dundrick wants to be doing. And while people have tried with limited success combining Emberstone and Pillage for him, I don't think he's the right war band for that pairing. And yeah, just in the environment we're in, you kind of want a little more damage or a little more survivability to really get that glory and snag these tokens. Also sadly, Realmstone Raiders isn't going to move the needle for him very much because you can't raid on range attacks more than once per game from a inconsistent ploy. If you could, I think he'd immediately be very spooky given as we mentioned that very high accuracy high range on fighters like Lund and Ironhale. Anyway, moving in to the next one up the tier, an old favorite of mine now. We've got Spite Claw Swarm, one of the download war bands after a decent renewal in first edition. They're here. I don't want to say with the vengeance, but they're at least better than they were for a long time in terms of being usable with interesting albeit kind of clunky and hard to use War Scroll, but they did retain that ever important and very interesting raised mechanic. Yeah, I think I was maybe a little too harsh when I first saw the new version of Spite Claw in the second edition looking at the War Scroll and their fighter stats. Overall, I think they landed in a decently solid place. It does still hurt. I think that they don't have that range to to damage at least to put out with Scrich and kind of surf around the board like he used to do. having the backup promotion to leader for Kirk is really nice so you're able to consistently access your swarmability even if spike clogged its nuke early in the game and things like the justified paranoia in particular I was really harsh to but the ability to just kind of like move guard is really good in the moment especially if you're playing something like pillage where you need to be standing on a token just delving it over and over again two dodging cover on guard whether or not you're staggered it usually pretty difficult to crack early in the game when people don't have their accuracy down yet so I think there's definitely some things going for them I just feel like there's not again maybe quite the right deck out there for them because they can't leverage their positional tech like moving and going on guard with two dodges really good but when there's not a whole lot of hold objective game plan at the moment that can reward you if you're worth zero bounty I think they just are looking for a deck more in that vein at the moment yeah they definitely don't have the easiest time playing for supremacy given that it doesn't play nice with raise and they do hurt from not having any base three damage anywhere and while they do have that quote unquote free crit grievous on the war scroll which can come in handy early frequently it's fairly superfluous late because you have great strength you have glory seeker and similar cards and not deck building with those in just seems like making a mistake to me so on the whole they're definitely better than I gave them credit for when I first saw the worst role I've been pleasantly surprised by some games with blazing village and similar with them but it is something that other war bands also do really well so hard to give them a ton of credit although they're still fun we'll be on up got another rivals of the mirrored city hack right stuck next to them with the burden of the Briar queen another kind of favorite of myself in the first edition of course and I played a little bit of them in the second edition as well think they came out to a pretty lukewarm reception in the second edition a lot of people kind of poop who them and probably never even pick them up in the first place I have played a good bit of games with them I do think they have juice blazing pillage in particular is where I think they generally land in the best spot because you get more access to grievous again pillage currently being the only one with glory seeker in it making it a little bit more essential in pairings we don't have access innately to grievous on your fighter cards or worst girl I think it's really important for them where they tend to fall down for me is actually on their fighter cards and not in the fact like they all start on to dodge which is fantastic but none of them have more than three health so it's very conceivable that because of our clav in the Briar queen have to be doing so much work they just get blacked early in the game I've had a lot of instances of the Briar queen comes up to make that attack and get inspired in the first round and then maybe it's an odds on maybe it's not a nod on but she just gets knocked off the table and it feels really bad for the rest of the game so again another war been that I think it's suffering from lack of two damage it ranged to like with the Briar queen being able to serve around in particular but stare of death is just absolute cash money this whole word and ability is very functional now in terms of you're not really gonna need to use it once per round more than once per round anyway just securing the positioning of wherever you want on two tokens early in the game is really all you need from it and wave of tears still plenty good even though no longer works in defense so overall a lot of things they can do well just I think outpaced a little bit by some of the other words in the meta with lack of the ability to resurrect and the lack of stunning damage output that you might see from something like Zarbag's kids yeah I'm not also at I think that while they do benefit from having that to dodge across the board this does kind of make their survivability a bit higher variance than a lot of other warbans so you look at like Spulco guard they're gonna die they're gonna come back that's the point you assume you get hit and you don't really care about getting hit per say similarly forgets you have nine bodies and then later you will be to dodge also as well as having substantially better attack actions even then the inspired side of your chain recipe and then where you're really suffering is your two proper hitters or two and a half proper hitters the queen the ever hanged and varclave they don't have great accuracy to start in particularly the ever hanged has continually kind of had his stats his starting stats chip down so now he's two swords he's not for move but varclave and the queen being only three wounds does just hurt a lot in terms of how quickly they can come off the board at times like I said that two dodges is high variance in that you tend to be completely fine until you're completely dead and you'd really almost rather be one dodge but have one war wound so we're alternating here with favorites and stuff we've played but we're finally moving into stuff that neither of us I think has spent a lot of time on with iron souls condemners kind of an interesting warband another one of the downloads who had a very very slight revamp at the end of version one with that starter set box just in Barnes and Noble and stuff coming into V2 they are pretty tanky and interesting warband I would put them at similar to morgok but with a little bit less interactive agency they do nonetheless still have those commanding impressive spooky stats that you expect from stormcast they are the only stormcast that start with grievous on one of their fighter cards they do have very impressive starting accuracy across the board even the less accurate one that does get the grievous for his first charge in round one you can have three hammers if you like every time it only goes up from there inspiration remains a little bit wonky yeah I mean those games where you let your opponent go first they roll up the attack iron soul or whatever you roll a crit and defense it's gonna feel great but then there's some games for that crits just too elusive and you're not able to get into those juicy inspired stats especially the two shields in the case of iron soul and Tavion so early enough that I think it's gonna be very again high variance in the outcomes that you can expect to see with the warband but like George mentioned perfectly solid starting stats great starting accuracy across the board again factory and brought this brought us access to punishing blow and the no dry back only kind of further supports that right if your opponent's go first and they charge into you odds are they giving up support on a clap back attack so I could definitely see them doing some stuff like realm stone raiders for example I think that was kind of the kind the type of deck they'd want to see a little bit more access to their power deck early in the game on good starting accuracy off their melee weapons that they're just not quite the mix of like movement that they need with that I feel like because you do kind of need things like wings of war great speed et cetera to bump out and you do have a little bit of that in realm stone raiders but I think it's just not quite yet at the right mix and even once you get to the right mix there's going to be three fighter elite aggro warbands that do it better in the higher tiers either higher in B tier or up in A tier yeah I think they're also hurting just from kind of the stat squish we've had with damage characteristics while doing two on three hammers is really nice having two with grievous on three hammers is really nice like many of these more elite warbands they're hurting to not have a base three damage they're hurting from the inability to stack multiple sources of plus damage because they really being mostly range one even with their ones per game plus one range they need to hit shit good the first time they charge and it can be very challenging if you whiff even one attack here or there and then just the math is there that you can no longer kill an enemy and while we've seen this at previous matters of the game when people were stacking plus two wound upgrades or similar this will be all the time especially when you face down other semi elite warbands and every single fighter you look at is gonna require two successful attacks it can just quickly get out of hand where you can't get the glory you need because you're gonna charge and then not be able to charge out fast enough to keep swinging so that's the reason for their place in the B tier or at least part of it moving on up another warband I was maybe a little bit too harsh to an initial release in the dread page and so warband that had I think a lot of cool identity in the first addition in terms of how they were sharing damage and things like that I think still actually retains a good bit of juice compared to what I had initially assumed they were going to have the worst gruel abilities at first glance strike you as kind of middleing to bad especially speed of slanesh I think was the main thing that I took issue with being there their whole thing is just the plus one move on a charge when they're already quite fast and then had not having the access anymore to things like the self paying self heel that they used to do or something like shared pain is their kind of characteristic iconic thing but everything else is just solid cruel pangs as a finisher or even just to get an inspiration going is fantastic being able to push multiple fighters in a power step being able to give multiple fighters guard tokens full rerolls on an attack they're all just like generically useful effects they don't I don't think have much flavor honestly at this point but in terms of the raw power output of what they're doing are good abilities things you would take poise to do so from that perspective I think they work out pretty well the only one who I think is kind of dragging the war band down for the most part in this edition is glissette I think she lost a lot of what you would have wanted her for in this war band which is that kind of dangle yeah you can try and come hit her piece like you had in the first edition but now starting the game on one dodge no always on guard little bit tough to overcome in some cases and she can just get blapt and she didn't really get a commenser increase in her offensive stats to compensate for the decrease in her defensive capability so I would have liked to see a little bit more open to her maybe starting the game on two dodge or something like that but once you get inspired you got some real spooky fighters especially vasalac inspired to range three hammers for essentially three damage because you've got grievous really good I just think is a little bit lacking when you start looking at if we're playing like a four fighter control or elite hold type of war band there's options that are better in the higher tiers yeah they definitely are a little bit all over the place with the stats and while I agree I undervar their worst girl kind of significantly on first glance and I've played with them since and been able to make them sing a little bit I still have issues with, you know, glissette like you said, but also, slikeslash just feels kind of alright. Vassalac being three bounty still hurts quite a lot given that he doesn't get any defense increase anywhere. I would have liked to see him maybe go to two shields to justify that three bounty that's locked up on him in only four health or just make him five wounds also. You know, I don't know any little thing or put some healing on the worst scroll like they used to have for successful attacks but they work. I think that they can do quite a lot. They just kind of don't have an edge at least a significant enough edge in terms of consistency compared to even other things that are higher up from them in the B tier. Like if we're gonna get there, we'll talk about Kogra who do a lot of the same I want to hold stuff but much better. And maybe Patience Neesha is to be more aggressive but they don't have the starting stats to support that. And I think they are also like a lot of what Ben's we're gonna talk about today. Herding for just that quite right deck that wants to hold stuff which was a persistent theme of our C tier discussion as well. I do think that a little bit more hold objective centric stuff, hold treasure stuff that isn't quite working the way Emberstone works would give them more of the juice they need. But we'll keep moving along to another sort of for fighter war band sort of not. Mollog's mob an old favorite or anti favorite of many many people. I'm sure there's a lot of traumatized Mollog opponents out there. He's got a solid war scroll with part of why I'm gonna insist on him being beat here is that there is a rule that there's a lot of controversy around and I'm just gonna assert it here. I think you don't have a real leg to stand on and you're kind of arguing in very bad faith. If you look at that rule and read it and say, yeah, this leg's quick and charged, yeah, the leg's quick and get pushed. But putting that aside, I think very strong, even with the most restrictive version of that rule and just has some clear cut weaknesses that can be exploited. But in the right hands at the right time, very, very spooky stuff. Yeah, you mentioned the war scroll. Nasty critters as basically just your default. I do this every round is quite incredible being surrounded both defensively and offensively. Makes for pretty accurate attacks coming out of things like Bat's Quig, especially once inspired. Basically rolling three hammers with support every time you attack, it's pretty nice for two damage. And then it does make up a little bit for the fact that they don't actually any of them go to two defense dice. Defensively, they have three health now and they get the extra surrounded in defense when people are adjacent. So it offsets a little bit there. I do lament that there are some guys out there that are sitting on two health that are certainly bigger than these squigs. But overall, I think stat wise, you can invest too much more in the second edition for them. It's access to four damage, which is of course really important for him and he's gonna be doing most of the heavy lifting and can still do two or three damage if you stack on grievous at range two, which is quite respectable. So I think they've retained a lot of the Maulog Bonk don't come in here identity. But still again, when you're looking at the efficiency of some of these four fighter war bands compared to Maulog needs to carry the load on on his own more or less, I think that's where they start fall down compared to our higher tier war bands. But we are still in the B tier and they're still perfectly competitive if you want to choose them as your tournament pick. - Yeah, he definitely has an interesting play style and able to push the minions around, get those surrounded supports is not to be scoffed at, although it's a little bit more restrictive than you might think you have to be next to the enemy for the squig to go adjacent to the enemy or they have to just go next to you. But in many ways, what we're gonna see in the B tier, the biggest difference between the higher end and the bottom end will just be that there's a slightly more efficient version of this. So talking about Black Powder and Maulog in particular, you have one big dude and a bunch of small dudes that don't do a lot. And while these are very big dudes at seven and eight health respectively, you can go and spoiler not gonna be discussed further in the episode today and look at Headsman who have one big dude with a few less wounds but substantially better move, better defense and actually does inspire to better damage at that range one. So kind of the difference maker there. Still not to be underestimated, but as I said, given that the eggs are all in one very big basket, you can play to either absolutely murder that basket or just run away from it and kind of give him that way. - All right, well, moving into our first true new season war band here with Zikits Tunnelpack, Smack Dev in the middle of B tier pretty much. There's two main things that are letting them down. As you might have remembered from our review content, the war scroll is just not very good overall. Kaboom is fine, it's good ability. Everything else is situational to a deadly trap, particularly things like warp charged and more and more power. I think can really get you in trouble when you try to use them. It's so attractive because that's the thing they do. It's on the war scroll, you've met the condition to use it and you wanna try it out. Oftentimes you just better off not having done so. And I think that's the main thing that's holding them back, but outside of that they're suffering from what a lot of five fighter war bands are suffering from in bounty distribution. You've got five bounty tied up in your leader plus Ritak and just not really commensurate bulk to compensate for that. Ritak starts the game at just one dodge. Of course he is going to be a high priority inspiration to get to two dodge, but still only four health and then similarly for Zikits, he's on four health. Those go to two shields inspired. So a little bit better off than Vassalack as a three bounty fighter in terms of bulk. But overall just the fact that they need to do so much of the heavy lifting for the war band offensively means that they're going to be at risk over the course of the game and it's very easy to just drop five bounty and almost automatically lose the kill bounty game for that match. So I think there's plenty of to like there. They've got good stats. They've got five move, three damage on a stick with Ritak once he's inspired. Zikit himself is also quite respectable, three hammered two damage. Again, a situation where you'd love to have seen him get to two damage on his range, two profile inspired. But still just that little bit outclassed by those things that are a little bit higher than them in the tier list. Yeah, they've got a few clear cut weaknesses, especially in that outside of their two main guys, the damage output is fairly lackluster. And that again, no two damage at range two. The second dodge for half the war band doesn't come online until you've been taking some hits, which while it's nice that it's guaranteed can be a bit painful. And I'm gonna say this again, I think they don't have quite the right deck for what they wanna do right now. They've got some good options. They do blazing pillage well. They do blazing cato well. Strong arguments for, you know, bled your cato with something else. I could see realm stone raiders to an extent. Although the accuracy really is there for them that I think they wanna lean into that super hard. But they just kind of feel like they need blazing to make Ritak actually hit. And then once you're stuck on blazing, you don't have that many options for how you're gonna play in terms of any kind of flex glory plan. And you do really expose a lot of bounty to try to get work done. So continuing on, another five fighter war band with a kind of flex punchy plan with most of the stats concentrated in two fighters. Is there a theme here? We've got the Conan crew who I'm gonna emphasize. My vehement hatred for them at the start of second addition is not to do with the raw power of the worst scroll or the fighters. It's strictly to with the fact that GW took my baby outside behind the shed, shot it in the face, shot it again, and then buried it, and handed me a new thing and said here, there's new puppy. This is your baby. Like no, my baby can move all the time and react and always has supports. And inspires just for making supported attacks and doesn't lose the game because someone has a one glory upgrade that's in every blazing deck more or less that says you don't get to inspire on this fighter anymore. But I digress. What do they have going for them? They have one worst goal ability that depending on the cards in your hand can basically say once per game, no, you don't hit me or yes, I hit you, which is fairly strong depending on your ability to get enough cards into your hand at the same time and have that line up with what's going on in the game. But typically I find it fairly good, fairly consistent. I just love losing those round one roll off so I'm coming into round one with six cards going, I dare you to charge at me and whiff so I can inspire. But on top of that, they've got the ability to kind of no sell one other attack per game by giving singles and doubles on defense during an attack roll, which wanna emphasize, if you do this with a fighter that's on guard, you can't roll less successes than the number of dice you're rolling if they don't have cleave or brutal or whatever. But that's fairly strong because for all attacks where your dice equal their attack dice, you just say you fail. So for a lot of the two even three dice hitters out there given that pillage exists, you have twice a game, now you don't hit and that's enough to do some work. They've got some nice inspired stats, but where they're gonna struggle is accessing the first ability on their worst crawl and actually getting to inspire now that they have to hit those attacks that they're ranged to attacks are only one damage that they don't have as many good ways to move their fighters to get those supports. And of course, that they don't get those double supports amongst the minions. It's only while attacking with the two bigger guys. So I think that they have some kind of clear cut weaknesses in particular a kind of glaring weakness to half of the meta right now in my opinion, which is blazing, having brawler. - Yeah, and again, I think a little bit suffering from men not getting that second damage on his range to to give you that extra two. HECK's threat. Torco's inspired stats are absolutely fantastic. I think he's clearly the winner of the glow up here in second edition if you want to call it that, but Manok I think could definitely have used that second damage on his range too. And it's funny you mentioned a kind of plan, the first ability on the worst growl being difficult to use. It's the main decider of why the next war band in the line is the spot higher than them is just to the access to the movement economy of the war band such as it is is so much harder for Manok to pull off than it is for our next war band. So of course, a great segue. I swear we did not plan this transition or the back and forth of where we're landing on our favorites, but next up we have Canaan, of course, a favorite of mine since they came out. And in the second edition, initially to a lot of lukewarm reception as there's of course now the famous tier list where they were literally at the bottom. So I'm glad to say that they are not the worst war band in the game. I think they're perfectly serviceable as evidenced by some of my recent results. But I think there are still some things that are holding them back from that A tier. And it's not even just what the meta looks like at the moment. I think they actually have a lot of play into a lot of different styles of game. Gardeners can be particularly difficult for them because you can't necessarily get that big damage hit off with Canaan all the time, but they can do okay and pillage catatip of stuff. They can do okay into aggro. Now that the barf has been nerfed and drum has been nerfed. The kind of main weaknesses to the war band are everybody's too health that's not Canaan. So very easy to take off the table, especially before they inspire. And then Karu and Senhan no longer go into two damage when inspired. Means there's not too much of a backup plan anymore. Kentah is definitely the big loser out of the transition to the second edition. Only accesses two damage on range two when inspired, lost to health, can't do underving synchrony stuff anymore. So unless you play very carefully with Canaan, generally you can lose the game quite early if he goes down. But that plan A is still quite strong. We have a lot of repositional tech for him in the game right now, Commanding Stried, multiple teleports with things like blazing pillage and good accuracy output from again blazing assault. I think it's basically a must take for them. So very legitimate war band and the movement tech off more tech advance while I was initially skeptical is arguably better than it was before being able to do it repeatedly. Being able to shuffle positioning of guys on the board. Oh, you're on that token. I actually want to swap you to put the southern guy on the token because he's not staggered or even just say, okay, I'm denying your stay close. I'm denying your loan in the dark. Really good tools at your disposal if you've got the reps in with the war band. But again, not quite at the level of some of the hordes that are a little bit higher on the list than them. Yeah, excellent points. I mean, you've shown the world that Canaan can absolutely slap and are making that statement that he's beat here because you can do the reps and have a lot of skill ceiling with him. But like you said, a very, very squishy bunch of more techs that can just get obliterated quite quickly and hand out five bounty. No, four bounty. Excuse me. And can it himself while he's tanky lost that second block dice while inspired, which really, I think doesn't make a ton of sense given how much harder it is to inspire him now. And that if you inspire him, you're actively choosing not to inspire three other fighters, which given that some of them go to two block dice, you hardly ever see inspired Canaan. But some of the same issues we've talked about already, they kind of, they're slow. They run on supports. They have only one fighter that has to do most of the damage work. So your opponent can kill that fighter or avoid that fighter or neutralize them in some other way. And although, yeah, they slap with blazing pillage. I don't know if maybe that's like the perfect deck for them. I think they'd love something that gave them just a little bit more positional scoring or at least gave them the type of, I just scored by moving around in my territory without staggering myself, kind of scoring. But I'm not the master of the bone money you are. So I'll call it there and just head into the next war band who ironically enough have in my opinion a pretty good match up into Canaan in one case of stuff right next to other stuff on this tier list. We've got Eiffelom's Pandemonium who well, yes, you'd have to say they took a hit in the transition to second edition. I think it's not as big as a lot of people have perceived. Obviously they went from having one of the most commanding faction decks and a huge run of competitive dominance. They've still got some very nasty stuff on their war scroll. They did keep some of their strongest power cards as war scroll mechanics. Indeed, one of their most important power cards is now a war scroll mechanic you can use once every round as long as Eiffelom's around, which is quite good and important. And while the fighter stats are a little wonky, they've got strong range three access and they've got probably the ping-e-est war scroll that you really do feel like you're playing a wizard in a video game that can just drop massive AoE damage and in happy magical Christmas land could delete five more techs at once. Yeah, and that translates to things like Gits as well. If you're going in, you're getting all these ping-finishers off your war scroll. So pairing it with something like Pillage Cata, for example, yourself, get a lot of ping-out on your end and just delete fighters in the power step, which is fantastic in this addition of the game given that things like siding no longer exist, be able to affect other multiple treasure tokens at the same time or just remove multiple pieces from the board at the same time, super valuable. And I think Appetrax in particular got a pretty nice glove in this addition, getting extra health and getting a kind of a nice flat two hammers to damage cleave inspired is quite solid and a lot of matchups. Spawn Mons still often, I think, going to be your first inspiration, especially against things like Gits because he doesn't aspire to get it in snare, but just the ability to bring everybody back once around or bring somebody back once around as opposed to just once a game and you always have it when you need it, which is the big thing about some of the abomination in the first addition was did I draw in round one to ensure I can bring my inspired changer back. Now, of course, they don't come back inspired because they've been slain and raised and that's how the racial works, but having that access to I know I need to use this and I have access to it is fantastic and I think the war band really isn't struggling to do too much right now. Avro can be a little bit problematic because Eiffelom can just die against opposing aggro, so that's why they're not quite in a tier, but definitely a lot more juice than think people have given them credit for. I'm surprised we haven't seen a little bit more of them, especially with the preponderance of pillage cat a horde that we've been seeing. Next, we have another of the newer emerald war bands in Borgets beast grab a so this is a war band that I was very excited for when they came out in terms of their mechanical game plan. I think there's a lot on the war scroll to like. There's definitely a lot of work that needs to go into unlocking it. I don't know that we've quite gotten to the point where anybody's really figured it out yet, but there are also some things that are holding the back again keeping them in this tier. So starting with the positives, of course, very easy access to inspiration via Delve, Uglog stats inspired fantastic. Borgets offensively and even defensively pretty solid. The main thing I think holding them back stats wise is the three health on Borgets once again having a person who's so accessible to a two hammer two damage twist the knife your dead kind of thing or just the relatively often enough two damage plus grievous hits that war bands have on tap at the start of the game makes them a little bit vulnerable because once he goes down not only do lose access to a good bit of your war scroll and debate, which is a pretty significant function of what you're doing, but you also lose offensive presence pretty quickly once he goes down if it's all on Uglog, which it essentially is once Borgets goes down. You're in a bit of a pickle and I think I have had the games playing this war band where two dodge does not feel like two dodge two shields does not feel like two shields and they just get wiped off the board. I've had instances where I've lost three fighters in the first round or just look at the board state and go. I'm not sure there's a whole lot I can do to come back from this and I'm not sure that's necessarily going to change if they get more decks out. Obviously, pillage is exactly what you'd want to do with that inspired condition, blazing or something like that or racking ruin, cataclysm are all reasonable pairings to go with it. I think there's still always going to be solid, but I don't know that I'm ever going to see them in that A tier conversation. Yeah, I'm not sure what it would take to really move them all the way up to A, although I do think they're there very solid and have a high amount of skill expression. Personally, I'm very excited to experiment more with realmstone Raiders for them. I think that's exactly the kind of niche they want to sit in that it gives them a lot of token and pillage synergies in the form of roused violence and hoarders' huddle and that the raid mechanic itself kind of plays very well into well while we are hurting for damage a bit. If hitting attacks is enough, we can do that even if we don't necessarily get those kills and score a bunch of glory just for hitting attacks with my one bounty for swords because you're the trophy rigs and sham or something. But walking that fine line where Borgat serves around doing work and doesn't just get blapped for being three health is hard. It is again the same situation of balancing toughness only with defense dice. I think you're going to find that when you live in the well, I can die to one hit very easily, two defense dice kind of. It feels like it doesn't matter because when you get hit, you're just hit usually. And so all the time you didn't get hit, don't ever feel safe. And then the one time you do it, like, yep, it's over. I have three health and someone had twisted knife. Yeah, if he's still inspired to two shields, I would absolutely pay the cost and take one shield uninspired for an extra health to be for health on Borgat for sure, especially with how easy it is to get inspired on demand. But one other thing that I should note just before we move on to the next war band is that we are factoring into this current version of the terrorists. Of course, we don't have official FAQ on it. on this, we are factoring in trophy hunters as an all game ability, not just the first round. So obviously they take another little bit of a dip if that's only for the first round, but our hope is at least based on the wording that it will last the entire game. Yeah, that's a good shout out and definitely, definitely I think they suffer a lot more if it doesn't last all game, but I really strongly feel that it should and probably was intended to. In any case, we'll move on to another one of these new warbans, you know, consistently hitting that beat here so far. The knives of the Cron only recently fully spoiled, officially out on Saturday, but we've, you know, been able to take a look at them and theory craft and play some games. I think that they're solid. I think that their core issue that will keep them out of the A tier is strictly consistency. I think much like we've been talking about with two Dodge warbans on the thorns and even Borgat with two shields and at low health is that that variance of the games where you don't get hit all versus the games where you could hit and just die. I think that the knives will have games where they hit their first couple of attacks and just it all snowballs from there and they'll have games where maybe you you with your first two, three attacks in round one and then kind of don't get inspired and go into round two with worse attacks and it just goes bad and you'll have that early divergence point. Yeah, it's funny that they landed so almost identically to first edition grizzles, air and I in terms of just like the dice are going to determine the outcome of your tournament. If you have those really good early games where you say, okay, hit my first attack. I got four told wisdom and four told protection. You're live in large because you're up to two Dodge. You're inspired. You've got the reroll online, but like George said, there are going to be those games where you're just whipping and you're not accessing your worst role and you're not accessing your better defensive stats outside of care and evics, of course, who starts on two Dodge already, but those games where it does snowball it's no balls pretty hard and it feels really smooth while it's going like if you can keep chaining together, I hit I have four told protection down I hit I have four told protection down. Warband can feel very difficult to crack and very potent in terms of what it's able to do with both scoring and kill access. So I think stats wise they're fine, worst role wise they're fine. I just don't think there's anything that blows me out of the water looking at them, especially when you're looking at teams that have access to maybe multiple sources of three damage or at least one source of flat three damage. Those kinds of things will hold you back in the long run as along with the dependence of a little bit of dice luck in your favor. Moving into immediately another four fighter, elf warband we have mires purifiers. So again, a warband that lands kind of similarly to where you would have seen it in the first edition. I think they still play actually all the warbands that we've discussed so far. They might play the most similarly to how you had them before. Bannars that big don't mess with me kind of guys up on the front line, not being pushed is incredible. I do lament a little bit that he's still on the one shield instead of the two shields uninspired, but still decently access decent access to inspiration and I'll take full cannot be pushed while I have my aether cords over any abilities he used to have. So I think they're in a good spot overall. They have good fighter stat distribution. Ailen has good accuracy. They have good survivability in cases where they're not playing against aggro teams, but they do suffer from a similar thing that we've talked about with a few warbands in a row now where they're just fragile enough that sometimes those two defense dice that they can access feel like they don't matter. And then when those games happen and you let's say lose two fighters either off the rip in the first round or maybe in the first two rounds, you're not able to execute on the I need to actually be on tokens game plan because something like Emberstone, Katta or Blazing Emberstone, things like that do work very nicely for them given their bounty distribution and given what their war scrolls trying to get them to do. They just have that lower floor like we discussed at the top end of our B tier definition where you can hit the variance lower than most warbands in higher tiers can. Yeah, they're going to be hurting again from that defense dice variance compared to just having more health or more bodies. They also are hurting from that damage access in particular kind of Bahanar's range to being one with Grievous instead of just flat two and being able to put Grievous on it. I think I wouldn't have minded if he just inspired that his range one was two with Grievous and his range two was just two so you could at least get him to have that range to utility or you know more accuracy somewhere. But the again saying this for maybe the fifth time this episode, they're hurting for a whole deck holding out for a whole deck like a lot of warbands here. Yes Emberstone gives them a lot. Well, it gives them two end phases they really want to play with and then you have the problem making up the other four end phases with something that also says stand on tokens and fight defensively. And the surges in Emberstone can be rough. I think that their ability to you know punch back against aggro running at them is limited when those bodies are you know of the five and six health variety like we see from a lot of the elite aggro teams and they are you know still blappable in particular. Snella although being range four and then range five she's you know usually going to be more safe. But a number of those themes do still have access to three damage do still have access to twist the knife. So I think they they heard a lot from being worth seven bounty like every warband that has less than you know six bodies is they want different decks than what they've got right now. I don't think realm stone moves the needle for them yet and that'll kind of keep them off of pushing all the way into a although if we did see a really strong hold deck come out. I think they would be up there for consideration as one of the strongest abusers of that given Bahanar's just immobility and their general defensive stats. So moving on to a warband that's particularly near and dear to my heart we've got the far striders and one of those you know aforementioned elite five health aggro teams that can really get in your face and mess you up. They also of course have those range three weapons. In many ways they're kind of like a side graded ember watch you could call them a down graded ember watch and in some extents that's true although I've had you know I jibed better with kind of the far strider style and stats they have a lot going for them in terms of their just raw offensive potential both having range three attacks is very useful getting some rune marks on those attacks is very useful their war scroll is a little bit undercooked and hard to use you know it's got a natural flow to it but kind of if you find yourself needing to play in a way that disrupts that flow you have a hard time making it have value like if you need to come from enemy territory back to your territory and of course they don't get any defensive buffs anywhere so among elite teams they can kind of suffer from being relatively squishy. Yeah absolutely I think they do have a little bit more offensive punch than you might want or might be seeing from ember watch in particular that's the point of comparison but they do lack the bull none of them go to two shields they have no heal abilities outside of their Vanguard ability which I think generally you want to be trying to ping with anyway and it's just not a whole lot in terms of keeping them on the board when you compare to all of these three fighter teams above them almost seem to have these abilities that keep them on the board keep them more relevant throughout the game as opposed to oh no I had some bad dice luck or my opponent just made some good odds attacks because I was always on one shield and I lost a guy in every round or I lost two guys and around and a half and then you're sitting in kind of a tough spot but overall I think there's still plenty good we actually debated for a little bit whether the eight year would roughly start with this war band or with where we ended up looking in above them there's just a couple things given how good elites are in the meta that are holding them back from accessing that eight year I'm not necessarily sure it's a deck thing or anything like that I think there's just a lot of war band a lot of competition for this slot of three fighter war band that can do several things but mostly does like aggro leading stuff really well and I think they're just unfortunately the quote unquote loser of that but still a perfectly solid choice speaking of three fighter war bands we have another one here with more gocks crushes so a war band that I've seen surprisingly little representation of coming into this edition I don't know if everybody just kind of feels like they've played more gock and done that but they've just got so much good stuff both on their worst role and their fighter cards like shut it pipsqueak is a unique effect that nobody else has access to and is consistently like almost game winning in a lot of cases as long as you know which ploys in the matchup you're trying to deny so don't waste it on like oh I get a guard token kind of thing you want to be saving it for the counter charges or things like that that are really going to mess up your game plan oh surprise twist the knife for determined effort that's going to make an attack kill one of your guys all of a sudden that becomes a relevant thing to potentially deny to your opponent and just look at the fighter stats having access to three damage across the board when inspired or four you're going on arts goal with grievous really really solid great accuracy as well even from the jump you've got three hammers on more gock coming out I think they've just got plenty of good stuff going for them and they do inspire two shields on to their fighters so unlike the direct comparison that we just have with far strider you do have a little bit more staying power in that respect especially considering you also have access to dead hard and shut it pips week on the worst role so yeah a lot to like about them I honestly don't have too much bad to say about them they're just again a little bit outclassed by some of the other elite teams in the meta right now yeah I think that they are hurting a little bit for some mobility although there are decks that fix that they lost that fourth move that they would get for inspiring previously and in general because they don't have that base three on anyone but arts goal they can kind of fall prey to that still like oh we can't one hit stuff and I think they used to live much more in a well, we're threatening to one hit stuff all the time, given that Morgoc had base three damage from the jump as did Ard's call and kind of they lost some of that early punch. And so they are needing to two hit things while being range one, so they have a similar issue to Irons soul in that respect. But on the other hand, like you said, Shadow Creek is amazing. Get a move on your gets is a great positioning tool. They have excellent synergies with blazing just because they like hitting and they've got those good defensive stats. They have synergies with reckless because they can play games with charge tokens. They like getting charged out. Their inspiration works even for getting attacked, not just for them attacking. And I am seeing some promising results so far with rumstone raiders for them pending FAQs. I may try them with blazing realm stone, but so far reckless realm stone has felt quite nice. A slightly sad performance on a patron game, not with standing. And yeah, they're just kind of not quite there because they are constrained by being mostly range one. And you know, they may you may have an easier time denying charge from them than almost any other three fighter war band. Given that unlike even Ember watcher Irons soul, they don't have that plus one range tool. They just have the push which you know, you can't use to push more goc. So it can't change his threat range. And of course, in terms of actual economy against some of the, you know, hordes stuff out there, since they need to charge, they don't have the same ability to kind of safely take some kills or leverage snurks lethal hexes the same way, kind of keeping them pumped down a bit. But we'll go ahead and move on to another one of my favorites coming in just above them. We've got Daegok stab leds who took a trim end this glow up since first edition with their download worst call giving them not only a much better. And you know, and must be said more consistent source of extra damage as well as across the board more or less better stats. Notably, Daegok and Jags are extremely scary fighters once they get inspired. Daegok with four move, three hammers, three damage on range one and two block. And of course, your cost for inspiring this is the low, low price of ping and opponent, which is its own kind of value engine with a war school that has a couple more undercooked abilities on it, but two very, very good abilities. Really they don't have a lot of big weaknesses either, I think in the vein of morgok, they just maybe don't have the perfect deck and are a little bit tricky to play. Lack that range three and kind of just have, you know, weaknesses of a four by four war band that can't inspire by taking charge actions. Yeah, I think we miss wise they do stuff for a little bit from what we discussed with the R.A. of a four fighter war band that now gives up seven bounty and that's, I think, mostly evident in her in particular, not getting any additional bulk when he inspires. And then the horn not doing anything is just a little bit confusing to me. I would love to have seen that do something instead of giving them like nasty poisons, for example, I could easily have seen swapping out that ability for just essentially what is horn used to do and then calling the war band relatively good at that point. But overall again, once we're starting to get into the point where you're nitpicking on war bands, war bands that have very legitimate competitive viability. And I think people might be surprised to see this war band so high up. But of course, if anybody's going to have unlocked it at this point, it's George. And if you just actually take like a deep dive into what the war band has at its disposal in conjunction with what's in the larger scale of we have lots of teleports and push tech and things like that, the set up cruel stabs. Once you start playing the war band where you're not just saying my action step, I move and I try to poke you, that's where the war band starts to get really scary. And I think once people start to catch on to that, the war band will start to see a little bit more representation. I'm going to hope not. I like them being just my thing. But we are, as you said, kind of in that area of the B2 where I think stuff is starting to get blurry with the line where we draw a tier. You and I had a conversation where we had to kind of make a tough choice and call it. So it is what it is and these are I think just a shade behind the stuff we're going to get to on that future episode. But I do think that I got can hang with any war band out there can do a lot of very nasty things. But you do have to do just a bit more work to make it happen than you do with some of those other war bands right now. Moving on to another four by four here or what becomes a four by four. We have Kagras ravagers. So the ravagers, you look at the war school and I, wow, this absolutely slaps. This war scroll, the drawing cards, the push tech, extra defense or attack dice, although it's be real. It's almost always used for extra defense. War band's great. That good enough staying power for a four by four whole objective war band. Taking whole war band to use the new terminology. That I think it does merit them the spot a few higher than Miari, but they had access to. Again, they're just to knit those little picks going into a tier, Rasek starting on three health, which could for all I know be some kind of misprint on the war, war band card is really hurtful if he does get blabbed in round one, you can feel really bad because that also might mean you've lost Sarsha at this point too and you're in trouble doing your whole objective game plan. It's just another one that like Miari, if you get that second taken hold deck out, that's a little bit less of Emberstone sent and those were the surges all want you go in an enemy territory. You can leverage a little more. I stand on tokens of my territory. They get better. For now, we've just got them that shade under eight here, but still again, at this point, a very, very strong war band and one that can't be surprised that they managed to take an event. I think that they're a big issue for them. For me, is their starting stats? They do have those phenomenal inspired stats, but they hurt in two big areas that I feel are their main weaknesses. They're hurting for accuracy. Cogra stays on two hammers, Rasek stays on two hammers. Craigin does go to four swords, but nobody is getting three hammers except for Zarsha's shooting, which it's nice to have three hammer shooting, but it hurts. You don't have three hammers anywhere else on your melee hitters. They don't get that fourth move on anyone, but Craigin anymore and he's the one who doesn't get a defense dice. They really do suffer from being worth three more glory than they used to be, especially when some of that extra glory is locked up on your one defense fighter, Craigin, and extra glory on Rasek who's starting on one defense and three health. Fundamentally, a big issue in the meta I feel right now if you're going to talk about like Getson Jaws kind of being big names is that they can't aggressively move into these warbands in round one because they need their inspired stats to hang and they can just get chewed up very quickly if they try to charge onto tokens or to use the sacrifice mechanic on their worst girl. But if they're forced to sit back, they kind of give free reign to a lot of the, you know, pillage catta game plans that are out there and against other elite warbands that maybe want to come and stat check them, they can't stat check back effectively in round one. And it can go very badly if you lose two fighters, if you lose Rasek and Zarsha in round one, you're kind of coming into round two. And yeah, you've got, Cogra's very nice, inspired, Craigin's decent, inspired, but that's not enough juice, you know, if you're falling behind there to really catch up on the killbounty deficit. So we'll move on to the final entry of the beat here, spoiler alert. Again, the order is a little bit hazy and we are sitting firmly in that blurred line with the A tier, but the last one up, we've got sirenized razors, a name that may surprise some people, but I think that they came into this addition in a remarkably good place coming off that download worst crawl a true four by four, four wounds across the board, and while the defense dice are a little bit lackluster, they are mechanics, meaning that they will always be able to inspire the right tool for the job in round one, and then kind of being able to inspire the rest as it goes on and having that hammer tight still. I mean enough said, they have one damage on demand with 100% accuracy if sirenized in the right position for it, which let's call that comparable to Zarsha having three hammers inspired to say nothing of just that they have two damage on range two accessible from the jump on three hammers. So they have the tool for the gets matchup. They just inspire all of the air. They get to do whatever they need to do. And I think that they also don't have any massive glaring weakness like we've been saying for the last few warbands beyond just their worth seven bounty. They don't all have two defense dice. They don't have base three damage and you know, soul harvest is a little bit wonky in some matchups. Yeah, I think the fragility can definitely be a concern in matchups where people have access to base three damage. So if you start looking at things that we haven't discussed, things like headsman or Gourges and where they might be able to just take two of your models off the table in the first round, you can run into some issues. But for one bounty fighter, I think Alathyr is about as good as it gets in the game right now to range three hammers, two damage with brutal. Almost always probably going to be your first inspiration target and well, where they wanted that. But across the board, yeah, there's very solid stats. Hammer tide is still really good, even though it can't go through block taxes anymore. And they just apply a lot of pressure to your opponent in terms of, okay, am I positioning out of lines where Siren I can hammer time me? Am I okay with eating the hammer tide with this particular fighter? That's what they want to go for. And then they offer you the choice. Usually later in the game of do you want to be inspired on that fighter or would you like to let me draw some cards? And I think often the answer is draw some cards depending on the matchup, of course, but like playing Canaan against this, for example, if I've wasted the time inspiring Canaan and you tell me I can't keep him inspired anymore, I just going to let you have the cards. So a really good war band. I think again, let down by the bounty distribution and a little bit of fragility on there and that keeps them out of A tier, but still like about as good as you can expect from most the four by four war bands in this edition. Yeah, I agree. I think it's a pretty fair balance when you compare them against each other of who gets more defense dice versus those better attack profiles. Obviously, there's some outliers and stand out people that we're going to get to in the A tier. And even amongst the B tier, you can look at DaGoc compared to Sarni. I say, well, DaGoc gets two fighters that get two dice on defense and it's two block. This is that, but Sarni's inspire is 100%. Different strokes, different things, different war scrolls, but the stat balances feel fairly good. And I think across the board in this B tier, any one of these war bands if someone came in with practice on them could, hey, pun intended, came in, came in, could just show up and rock people's worlds. And so it really don't underestimate any of these. I think to do so is to your detriment. If you sit down from someone who's mastered that war scroll and knows kind of the ins and outs of what they want to do with it. Yeah, I think even more obvious than what we saw in this E tier, the shift away from faction decks much though we might lament that they're gone because of the uniqueness it gave to each war band. We are seeing the impact of that here in the B tier where all of these are pretty competitive options simply because they all had the same universal tools at their disposal and they have good enough fighter stats and war scrolls that they can almost always hang in the meta. So I'm very interested to see whether any of these start to bump up or down as we get any deck adjustments slash FAQ slash Arata type output later in the season. But I think if anything, you'll see them bumping up them bumping down just looking ahead in terms of what they have on the fighter cards are mostly evergreen, what they have on the war scrolls are mostly evergreen. The odds that they're going to get crept or that they're going to get all of a sudden dropped into a bad portion of the meta seem a little bit lower to me than that. Oh, something above them got nerfed a little bit and now I jump up a little bit or a new deck came out that's taken hold and now my Kagura or my Miari can bump a little bit harder. Generally agree with that. But with a cautious note that I think a kind of recurrent theme in half of this segment of our list is that this war band really needs or wants blazing really works with blazing. I think if blazing gets rained into severely, not every one of these war bands has the tools to kind of shift over and play a whole game plan or even a pillage cat a game plan necessarily. And you know, it may hurt trying to play Canaan without the blazing tools or even spite claw. I think blazing pillage is such a prevailingly good pairing for many of these war bands that it would be really rough if blazing and pillage took a lot of nerfs. I think you'd kind of see them stay put or maybe even drop a little given the ascension that I think like Ambristone plans might see. But time will tell and I really hope that when I'm editing this tomorrow, I don't suddenly start having discord go off because somebody noticed that you drop the rules update and we have to re re record any final thoughts mark. No, of course we're excited to get into the A tier when that episode comes out. Of course, you can figure out which war bands are up there at the moment, but not necessarily order that we've dropped them in. But otherwise, yeah, really enjoying making the cheerless content once again and glad to see that there's so many things that we think are generally usable in the current meta. I think that's a nice feeling after having lost maybe your favorite war band that didn't make the jump into second edition. The fact that a lot of your older ones that might not have been so potent in the original first edition meta game now have a little bit more juice to play with in the second edition. Yeah, definitely well said, Mark. And I think the meta is by and large in a healthy place. I'm hopeful that we'll see some shake up because it is always good to have change, praise each, but we'll get to the A tier when we get there. Hopefully there's not a big change and we can finish this and then just start a new tier list after the seasonal update. Last note, of course, if your favorite war band is in here and you think that they should be A tier, calm, let us know. Comment in the discord and defend your position and go win with them. I don't think any of us are trying to say you're bad if you take a B tier war band. I certainly hope that's not the take away anyone gets because we love bringing these out and showing what they can do, especially when they're underestimated. Mark and I brought two war bands from this episode to adapt to Con. Mark won adapt to Con with Canaan and I know you're tired of us talking about it, but I'm not tired of talking about it. The bones are our money and bring it out and just understand your own war bands weaknesses as well as their strengths. I think you have to be realistic about things and if you're favorite, you feel like we've underestimate them or overestimate them. Let us know maybe we're missing something or maybe we can help you with something that will get them performing better. But with that said, that's the end of the episode. Thank you so much as always for listening this far and we wish you the best of luck on your Path to Glory.