Elon v. Kara, Tesla’s SpaceX Lifeline, and Sacha Baron Cohen on Satire

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house in the Senate and he tweeted live by the sword died by the sword sounds like Cara Swisher really wants to go to prison I really don't I'm not nearly important enough to get in the way of his eye so question does this stuff bother you or do you enjoy the attention or no none of it I think it's toddler behavior it's kind of ridiculous he threatened Congress I think to and oddly enough you are meaner to him this week you know on our clip and of course he comes after me which is yeah but I'm not I'm not important of it's like when Trump goes after just tarlaw or muskas after you I'm still waiting for my global important person to come after me I don't how come how come you and Jessica all the hate I don't know Jessica's the same way and Caitlin Collins it would happen was I gave an interview to Katherine ramp out the rampart and I was I talked to Congress people and heard they were coming after Elon and it's called reporting and I said it and I said you know in a Kamala Harris administration all those investigations there were several criminal things attached to them so we could have gone he could have gone to prison but he got rid of them I was making a point that he got rid of all the investigations either through his his relationship with Trump or through Doge and now they're going to come back and I said and you were gonna see a lot of congressional people saying so and he and they did the next day like all of them went on the record not just Elizabeth Warren but even a Republican was saying we need to investigate this Ukraine thing other people said the other ones and so I was just pointing out the dead fucking obvious of what's gonna happen if if if that's why he's throwing so she was asking why he was throwing so much money at the midterms like it's like he gets 400 million dollars at this point and and I said this is why it's not because he believes in Trump he believes in himself and he's trying to save his own skin anyway he for some reason lost his mind and by the way this is something Elon said to Tucker Carlson and his mother said don't joke about it like recently so it's not something that he said the word prison but then he just said this thing lived by this sort of die by this sort I don't know who he's talking about and and that I I want to go to prison which is like I don't mind being in a prison movie like in acting it and if the if the ladies from hunting wives were in there I probably wouldn't mind prison but I don't know I don't know how does Jess Jess wrote me too and you know I was on Caitlin show last night all of us just get relentless hate by all these really troubled men and in the case of Jess and Caitlin it's Trump in the case of me it's you yeah like at you get to say what you want he gets to say what he wants the difference is when you're the president of the United States or the wealthiest man in the world and you have this cult like following I think you need to be a little bit more mindful of the potential knock on effects of if you have a couple hundred million people that follow you religiously and have bought into yourself proclaimed views of yourself as a Jesus-like figure you have to recognize that there's there's a non-zero probability that saying something like that about someone else might result in physical harm to them or their their family and so you'd like to think that these individuals a little bit more measured and realize that as you get more powerful you are going to be subject to more attacks on fair some unfair and I'm not saying your or just as attacks against musk or the president had been unfair I don't I don't think they have been this is the world we live in now we're individuals say and on an autocrat thinks the following if I go after these people and exert my power I will silence my critics and if you want to see a chorus he's about to find out what a real carouswisher criticism is on November the 4th if the Democrats take the House and the Senate the fact that this individual is making geopolitical decisions around the fate of the West on a whim and he's blaming the president the president's blaming him you don't think every no no right now no representative in a third of the senators want to raise their head above the parapet and piss him off because he might dump 200 million dollars into their competitors campaign on November the 4th you are going to see the mother of all subpoenas and request for him to come testify before Congress they've already said it they've already said save your save your communications about this you crainting I think was a final straw for a lot of people although it shouldn't have been the final straw I mean those should have been the final straw and you know that he's done this before he said my heart was um seating with hate or filled with hate or I don't know and you know I got a few really strange phone calls I got I got I don't I wouldn't call them death threats they were they were not nice they were not nice and of course over on Twitter all the V.C. stands of his are just like losing their minds because they're all such you know they're just suck ups and accolades in a way that's really unattractive and it's just nuts it's it's it's a nuts things to do and he should be able to you know if you can't stay on the heat Elon get the fuck out of the kitchen I don't want to say but there is there is also I'm one I don't like to throw around the word misogyny I think it is overused I think oftentimes misogyny is Latin for I don't have a rational defense so I'll just call everything I don't like misogyny I think it is overused having said that it does appear that there is a pattern that when a female reporter or a female journalist is openly critical of the president or musk there is a different DEF con level of anger it is it is just it is impossible not to connect the dots that he has a tendency to call a woman piggy not an overweight man not an overweight journalist but a woman he will call piggy he seems to be obsessed with with young younger kind of attractive females you know Jess and Caitlin Elon seems to be there are a lot of journalists and but you know I don't have one I'm not as famous as you but there seems to be a pattern with these guys that women who who come for them get a much more gut wrenching visceral response than men who say the same yeah or worse oh yes we've noticed the violent stuff is really weird and and it's always swords it's so it's so cosplaying a four-year-old it's like it's as if he's I don't it's like he's acting like a guy who's addicted to catamene okay yeah well you think I that's what it feels like to me alleged I think allegedly based on reporting yeah like from the Wall Street Journal and a ton of other outlets I will say I got a lot of notes from people well-known people they were like horrified I'm like why don't you say something to them like really you should that's the thing yeah I am so sick of people texting me and saying whether it's on you know what pick your topic and they say you're absolutely right here I'm like okay where the fuck are you boss right exactly so you know a thanks for the text right thanks for the text right yeah well whatever calling you are a manual and maybe you should speak with your friend you know because you're never right about his terrible behavior anyway all right Scott we've got a lot to get today including a special conversation one of our favorite comedians Sasha Baron Cohen who has a new movie Allie G who is I and turns out to be a very good friend of Scott Galloway but let's before that let's get going first I want to talk about SpaceX and Tesla earnings I shall talk about Elon although he threatens me SpaceX shares search after the company reported record third quarter revenue of 14.6 billion dollars up 161% from a year ago the company also reported for $4.4 billion in net income reversing a loss of more than $1 billion a year earlier. Moving on, Tesla beat Wall Street's third quarter earnings expectations, reporting $28 billion in revenue, even as its core automotive revenue fell 3% from a year ago. Net income, of course, dropped 29% to 787 million as Tesla ramped up spending on AI and its optimist robots. You know, in anticipation, as I predicted, of this SpaceX and Tesla merger, they formed a special committee to explore that. I mean, of course, that's what they're going to do because data is the game for this company now in all aspects. And that's the bet he is making, of course, a lot of the money from that SpaceX is from selling compute. So if there's any weakness in the AI sector, it'll be a problem for that company. And by the way, Elon also reportedly did order a slowdown in Ukraine's military-grade sterling service last week, according to the Wall Street Journal. It's being heinous. It's also a business problem. People are, you know, head of Delta, didn't want to do business with sterling. Lots of Europeans don't, the Canadians don't, so it could actually hurt the business. So take off Scott Galloway, Mr. Earnings. So I'm not going to talk about valuation. I would argue that both Tesla and, and SpaceX, you're paying just an enormous narrative premium. But let's just talk about the business. SpaceX is literally a rocket ship. And it's revenue was about 14, 6 billion up 161 percent net income at 4.5 billion. The AI business is now more than half a revenue up nine X. Starlink 5.2 billion revenue at 45 percent operating margin with 14 million subscribers. Now there's some fear here. CapEx was almost 20 billion. Two customers with 38 percent of revenue. Essentially SpaceX is a phenomenal business with the same problem a lot of these AI companies have. It's got a concentration problem and also it's a cash bomb fire. SpaceX, can I note that because they miss their Q2 results, people are calculating missing free cash flow. They need money. They need money, as you said. Look, the fears around these companies is will they ever be able to justify the CapEx? That's a fear across all of AI. SpaceX company dot out about it is, and then again, distinct to the valuation, which I would argue is insane. It is firing on all 12 cylinders right now. Tesla is different. Tesla, the revenue is flat, operating income down 56 percent to about a 3 percent margin with regulatory credits down 73 percent, which made up the majority of its profits, pre-Trump canceling those credits. The P is gone from 305 to 330. This is an automobile company where the industry trades in an average of 18 and it's trading at 330. The deliveries were flat to down. Basically, you can't even talk about valuation on Tesla. It's a religion and it has about 3 million market cap per car delivered last quarter. Most car companies get about tens of thousands, not millions per car in market cap. The reason they're doing this merger, and the merger is going to happen because what you have here is call it special committee, call it shareholders loss, they'll be lost. He wants to do it. The reality is the bride, the groom and the efficient are the same person here. This marriage is going to go through, and the special committee is a Kabuki dance. It's all show, it's all posturing to try and act as if this is somewhat legitimate or check in a CC box. This is, you know, in "Sex in the City" and by the way, Karen, I know you know this about me, I'm a "Sex in the City" girl, I love "Sex in the City" and Carrie is dating Berishnikov and he keeps saying, well, after this art showing, we'll get to do this, we'll after this. She meets with an old girlfriend and says, why did she break up and said it was always, she got sick of hearing when this happens, we'll get a chance to spend more time together. Elon Musk is essentially the master at saying, oh wait, I got a shidiato company that's just a high cap, high cap back, a little margin business, but wait, we're going to have autonomous. Oh wait, it's clear my autonomous dreams are coming through, wait, we're going to have robots. Oh wait, the robot thing is pie in the sky, oh, we're going to merge it with SpaceX and get data and create the ultimate autonomous space connectivity automobile autonomous company. And he really is masterful of this and you not only need to do it for investors, you need to do it for employees, something I do every year in Q4, I say next year is our year of video. And this is why it's going to increase the value of the company and why the value of your options are going to go up. Then I say the next year, this is the year of subscription revenue we're launching on sub-stack and a revenue mix multiple is why you're going to your options are going to be worth more money. So it's not only always painting a vision that gets people excited, it's not like for shareholders, it's for people joining the company. And he's amazing at this because basically Tesla has run out of rabbits to stuff into a hat here. So he's created a new narrative and said, oh no, we're going to be part of SpaceX and we're going to bring a lot of top line revenue to SpaceX. There'll be some synergies. There's also some things in it for him in terms of the things he has to meet to get more money from them. Yeah. And he's going to get, he's going to paint a vision. It's going to increase his control of the company. After being asked, with SpaceX, you're going to be asked to buy the most expensive car company in history at 328 times earnings. SpaceX shareholders essentially are bailing Tesla out. And that is Tesla has run out of rabbits. And this is the new one. You're going to be part of this unbelievable company that's going fast and they'll figure out a way to spin the yarn there. CalShi says there's a 48% chance that closes before March and 81% before 2020, 28 according to CalShi. Now, the existential threat here that people aren't talking enough about and you referenced it at the beginning. Yes. That's what I want to get to. What there are two of them. What I think I know you're going to say the first one is the biggest one hands down. And I'm a capitalist. I don't believe in taking stakes and intel. I don't believe in in Obama, funding, salandra. I think the private market generally speaking does things better. Some things that does worse, for example, healthcare and the Navy. But I think they're going to be caused to, if not massively regulate, potentially even nationalized starlink. When you have an unelected representative, throttling back the ability to defend for a nation to defend itself, and it doesn't know that when inbound projectiles are coming in from Russia, and it starts to launch its defense drones and the defense drones don't work because the starlink without their knowledge has been dialed, throttled back, oh my gosh, you have some explaining to do. No Democratic Congressperson or Senator right now wants to raise their head above the parapet and potentially inspire his IR and get a couple hundred million dollars to go to their competitor. Once November the fourth happens. Well, they are. Actually, they are. That's not true. There's been about a half dozen Republican. There was one. There was two Republicans already. We haven't seen anything. Yes. I agree. There's so many elected officials waiting to haul that guy in front of Congress. But more than that, isn't it also speaking of capitalism. Look, Canada is looking for other partners, but Starlink, Europe is, Delta is, like there's a lot of, there's a lot of movement. I don't want to use this guy's stuff because he could turn it off in any partner. They could take it against me. Is that a risk from your perspective, the business, and he's fighting in India with the world's richest Indian, I think. Once Europe had an option in EVs, let's say he was first. He made the best EV, and in 2017, they had the best EV, in 2020, they had the best EV. Now, the BYDs in Europe, Tesla's sales are plummeting. The moment Europeans had an option, right now, there is no option to starlink. And what do you know? Europe is talking about binding together to create the equivalent of Airbus. And that is Airbus was essentially a response to Boeing. Europe said, "How come the Americans in this American company, which has been subsidized fairly by military contracts, controls the entire market for commercial jet transportation?" So they bound together, and they actually created an incredible company called Airbus, and in my view now, produces a superior plane. They are starting to talk about getting together, and also Amazon is coming for that business. But Europeans, as soon as there's an option in these countries to starlink? I mean, capitalist and we'll take care of it, and his behavior. Maybe even before that, though, and I predicted this, you're going to see a nation ban starlink. They're just going to say, "We've had it with this guy." The greatest export of Elon Musk isn't EVs or connectivity. It's political division. When he starts riling up far-right people in Germany, you got to think that at some point the moderates in Germany are going to, "You know what, Boss? You're saying it." The Delta guy got all kinds of shit, and he's attacking this very wealthy guy, and everything is done with a bullying man, or it is not going to go, "Well, let me say, I think the bigger one, I agree. This is a risk. I don't want to do business with this fella, essentially." But one of them is, "What happens if AI goes bus?" As I read those results from SpaceX, it's them selling compute that he's been building. That's what they're making money on, is selling compute, and if there isn't an endless bottomless need for compute, and maybe there will be, or if there's some sort of breakdown with the AI market, Ken Griffin talked about it quite eloquently this week. If there's some breakdown, this is at the heart of this surge that they just had. They're exposed, is all I have to say, in many areas. Yeah, and I wonder if it just all happens at once. regulatory. there's they miss their first revenue growth. And then basically people say, okay, this is a great, this is a great company with incredible regulatory risk that should get x valuation, not 10x valuation. And so this is, and he's going down, I just don't, I don't understand his logic around some of the, some of the moves he's made. I do think, you know, I always think these guys have gone a bridge too far and I found out, oh no, there's a thousand more bridges they're going to cross. Yeah, Ukraine would seem to be. Ukraine has a lot of Republicans pissed off. Yeah. And a lot of Ukrainians. And then you see those images of the woman taking her injured infant out of an apartment building that was, was shelled and we find out that the, I mean, imagine how the Ukrainians feel. They were about to launch their drones with Starlink technology, their defense drones to try and shoot down and coming projectiles and they don't work. And even Trump's blaming musk, musk is blaming Trump. You know, everyone's pointing the finger at each other. Anyways, the existential risks here are like you talked about, or we've been talking about, and that is regulatory blowback, loosely called that. And also, all of these companies face the same risk and that is will the return on their catbacks ever really be there because the catbacks is just extraordinary. I recommend listening to Ken Griffin talking about it. I find him, he's a strange kitty cat, but he's very smart. Anyway, we'll see what happens. We will see what happens with this, but just keep an eye on it because it matters to the whole economy. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back, met his earnings and the new plan to keep Mark Zuckerberg in control of the company. Support for the show comes from Atio. There are sales teams out there who never seem to stop moving. Always a step ahead, always on the number, working with a level of precision that doesn't seem normal. It's no secret. They're on Atio, the Atlantic CRM. Atio runs the work behind every win. It's built for humans and agents with the guardrails of human software and the scale of agentic infrastructure. 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AI tools are designed to help you sort through the chaos, but when those tools live in another tab, they never make it into your actual workflow. Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly is different than the AI you've tried. Go already has all the context it needs, handling the repetitive stuff so you can focus on the work only you can do. It's right there when you need it, no switching tabs, no losing your place. Try Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com. Scott, we're back and we've got more earnings to get to. Netages reported strong third quarter numbers with revenue jumping 26% to a record 64.6 billion dollars beating Wall Street expectations. Profit did take a hit from a $10 billion legal charge tied to the company's settlement social media addiction lawsuits. There's more to come in New Mexico judge just ordered meta to pay $25 billion for deceiving users about its data privacy practices. And by the way, there's more to come. That is its greatest risk right now. I would imagine meta announced then a two form one stock split that'll create a new set of class C shares to help fund AI spending and keep Mark Zuckerberg in control of the company because that's how he likes it. The new shares come with a commitment from Zuckerberg to stay in California who was threatening to lead while giving him a way to pay the states proposed billionaire wealth tax if it passes, you know, it's a trick to keep him there. And also in Medellin, Joe Kaplan met his head of global policy and one of Mark Zuckerberg's closest advisors leading the company next year. After more than 15 years Kaplan of former senior advisor to George W. Bush helped shape meta's policies on free speech and content moderation. He also played a key role in repairing meta's relationship with Trump. The timing of his announcement just weeks for midterms is raising questions whether meta is anticipating a blue wave and trying to get ahead of it through though Casey Newton pointed out in platformer Kaplan isn't leaving because he fears Democrats. He's leaving because his work is done. He's been the most influential in removing all moderation and backing conservatives for sure and the person taking his place, Steena Powell and another lawyer there also. But she's a very she's a softer side of Facebook I think in a lot of ways and I don't mean that in a sexist way she's just very well-liked. Joe is very controversial and probably wouldn't do as well in a democratically controlled congressional situation. Thoughts on the earnings, a little trick to keep him in California and where he has lovely homes, I think he probably wants to stay there too and also Joel. I mean I've said this three or four times in a row, meta's earnings are nothing short of remarkable. On a huge base of 26% add prices up 14% impressions up 10% while head count was down 15% while revenue grew 26% that's kind of AI efficiency in one sense fewer people more money. I mean it's just the most seminal earnings call of the AI age was I think six earnings call when meta said we grew 23% with 20% fewer people. That's everyone's fear. That's every politicians and citizens fear while every shareholder's dream that they're going to be able to just make more money with fewer people. The legal bill again 25 billion from New Mexico. So they've gotten about they've been handed about 45 billion dollars in legal costs this year and that's in penalties. That's roughly a third though of its CapEx budget. So it's you know you could honestly say for the first time harming teenagers is showing up as a line item that matters but it's still not enough distance sent up to really change their behavior I would argue. It will be I say it will be I think so and hopefully this is just the start. Their CapEx like again backed everything else here the fear around all of this is that we're in an arms race 35 billion CapEx for the quarter that's 54% of revenue. Year-to-day free cash flow has a result that's fallen from 30 billion to 11 and you know this is I don't think there is a company that has better proven the opportunity of AI for business than meta and let me just say this personally and I'm going to ask you this I have found in the last six months I am increasingly addicted to Instagram and reels I feel as if they literally go inside my brain and figure out what 30 seconds hit a dope up I want next exactly the right time. Interesting. I think it's a great product I do I evolve the social media products if you do it right and you get the right algorithm it's not hateful whether it's threads or Instagram if you get it correct it's the terrificly made product it works well there's some problem with sharing I'll be there's some slowness they haven't been developing features on threads because I don't think it matters to them but I think it's a good product muse if you noticed as I noted it would happen everybody signed up not as many people are using it it'll still be a significant business for them it's not dumb like some of their ones they had to abandon like their dating service or things like that I still wonder if music will catch on or not I'm not so sure well but we'll see if people are depending on if people find a real use case for it but it's well done it's well done and vaguely creepy so everything they do is really and that's why these numbers are great right I think you know in the case of Tesla Elon lost the attention span and he made a cyber truck not a better smaller car to compete with BYD mark does keep his eye on the ball on the products and has had some significant misses I mean averse thing was just a disaster. Their phone wasn't so great. They have a list of things they've sucked at. But in general, in their core business, they're including advertising. I find that advertising very pertinent to what things I want. I often buy things off of meta, which is interesting or want to. But still, they won't change. And, you know, Kaplan sort of leaving. And I think Kaplan, I have, you know, I think he's been very effective in a way that I find really not great and distasteful even. And what he's done to try to please Trump people. And it's in his own, by the way, he wants to do this. So I think they're getting ready for a more hostile political environment by putting in something like Dina. But I do think these social media lawsuits are going to continue and be a real problem going forward. Kaplan probably got paid $200, $300 million to do one thing. And that was repair the relationship and advise. You know, okay, okay, Mark, after the attempted assassination, say, say the Trump was a badass. Say this, say this, go to the thing, do this, donate to this. He basically repaired or got out of the crosshairs of the Trump administration. All of this stock stuff is essentially gymnastics, such that, such that a prop 40 passes, which Kaplan, she says, only has a one and four chance of passing. But if it does pass, he would, he would have to come up with $12.5 billion, which likely means he needs to sell stock. So all of this is gymnastics, such that if he has to do that, he doesn't lose control of the company. So through a series of issuing non-voting stock, I don't, I think it's all for now. He controls the company now. He controls it now so he can do this, right? He wants to stay in California, he likes California, he likes tow, he likes his house, he likes California. Well, on a larger level for all the bitching and moaning and reporting from Fox about the hellscape that is California, the people with the most options of any humans ever alive on this planet choose to live and wait for it, California. All those taxes, all those homeless, I'm a billionaire, I can literally live on any plot on God's Green Earth. And I choose to stay in Malibu or Woodside or La Jolla. Why, because California's fucking amazing. And yeah, it's not perfect. It's definitely got issues. But most of these guys who are all the bitching and moaning, most of them when they quote unquote move, move just long enough to qualify for residency in Florida or Texas or whatever. Yeah, such that they can have a lower tax rate. But anyone who's spent, anyways, I'm not going to be an ad here for California. He loves California and Hawaii. I knew he would stay. That's the one. Who wouldn't? Well, some of them do like Nevada. Some of them do like going over the water. Oh, come on. You think Sergei's just loving, he's loving Reno. I love the vibe in Reno. But Mark in particular loves California. He really does. I think he really, let me say, I would recommend reading Casey Newton's "Be Sonny" because Joel DiCaplin really has been like a really, oh Joel, have lunch with me. Joel, finally, you chicken shit. He clocked his couple hundred million clocks to sell a soul and you know what it was worth it. He's not selling a soul. He believes that stuff. Let me just say firmly believe me. Every sat behind what's his name, the Supreme Court. You shouldn't have been there. No, Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh, he's their friends. I just love the look of Kavanaugh's wife. Like, oh, that's just my favorite look. Anyway, we have to go on a quick break. Anyway, when we come back, we'll talk to a very special guest, Scott's cuddle partner, Sasha Baronco. Support for this show comes from IM8. 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Today, Harvey, the AI platform designed specifically for legal work is writing the next chapter of that legacy, helping lawyers handle those agreements more effectively and bring their expertise to more people. Harvey is trusted by more than 3,000 customers across 70 countries. More than 200,000 lawyers, 80% of the Amla 120% of the 4 to 500 are all building with Harvey. They're accelerating review, sharpening negotiations, and covering insights, drafting first responses, and more. And they're doing it all in one secure place built for legal teams. This is how the future of agreements has been crafted now. Learn more at Harvey.ai. Harvey does not provide legal advice. Users should always independently review and verify any output from Harvey. (upbeat music) - Scott, we're back. And here to join us is Sasha Baron Cohen. We were just talking about the word Kant. But we're gonna move on from that. And actually, it's a good thing to start with because you're moving. - I thought you were gonna comb me one, okay. - No, all right, fine, you cut. But your directorial debut, Allie G, who is I, which you wrote and star in, is in theaters today. And it is a lot about what you say and what you don't say. Let's watch a clip from the film before we jump in. - You are the indigenous people of this country. You must keep this country true to what it always was. - Hell yeah, Larry. - Do not be fooled. These immigrants are not coming here to mow your lawn. Trim your trees, wreck your leaves, clean your house, care for your babies, your parents, pass your tables, wash your cars, pick fruits and vegetables in the fields, clean your hotel rooms, schools, offices, hospitals, paint your houses, build your fences, operate slaughterhouses, it's all your roofs, drywall plumbing or electric. They are coming to kill you. - Oh yeah, man. - Oh God, that was so good. (laughing) - First question, I'm gonna start. Why are your friends with Scott all the way? No, you can't stop. He's the only person taller than me. - Oh really, is he? - He's my life coach. - Uh-huh, how so? What's his best piece of advice? Don't listen to Scott all the way, what are you doing? - Breathe in and focus on what you can control. There we go. I mean, basic stuff that you'd pay like an amateur shrinkfall. - Do you pay? - Because I'm English, I've never heard this stuff before. - Oh, okay, all right, okay. Well, I'm very pleased about your relationship. - Can I answer it quickly? Can I answer that question? - Sasha is, we became, I'm gonna say this, we became fast friends because Sasha's one of those friends. I can text him at 10 p.m. on like a Tuesday night and say, "Hey, you want to grab a drink?" And there's a 50% plus chance. They were in 10 seconds, I get it. Yeah, where? - Exactly, so I'm desperate and available. Exactly, that, my main attribute is, I have other options. - Right, so you're essentially his friend side piece, right? - Yes, exactly, so I'm just, I think I'll hook up. All right, let's actually talk about the movie. Talk about why is the right time to bring back the character Ali G, who has been canceled. Like, you know, he's obviously famous for saying offensive things. Talk a little bit about why now for Ali G, of all your many characters. - Well, he's an impossible character to exist in 2026, which is why I thought it would be fascinating to bring him back. You know, he's a dinosaur relic from another time. He's completely the same, but the world has changed as we all know there's a lot more divided, there's identity politics, but I felt if I was bringing him back I needed to create these other two characters who could show the extremism on the right and on the left. So I would never would have brought him back alone, but I felt if I could bring those other two characters and bring them in, I'd create them on this other show called Who is America, we could actually talk about, it could be firstly hilarious and secondly we could examine the extremism on the right and the left. Right, and you bring it in Israeli trainer, right? Is that correct? Exactly, it was just in that scene. He was in the Moss side, but was not really in the Moss side. Yes, well exactly, everybody presents, and then your other character is sort of like explain the name and everything else. He's called Dr. Nyra Cane and take a cello. He's so left that he makes AOC look maca. And he's a professor in ethnomusicology from Reed College in Oregon. And essentially he's the kind of white savior, but he is the nemesis of Ali G. I mean this is a thriller, so it's a bit like the fugitive. We have a cultural appropriator on the run, but it's Ali G is on the run and this guy is trying to stop it. I want to ask you about a piece you wrote for Time Magazine where you said, quote, in an era when the US president and his ilk, the use of the word ilk, by the way, seems impervious to shame and ridicule is satire, all but dead, because this week we got like 10 new terrible characters, and one came and went, which is Scott's favorite, which is Kate Zacharia Zacharia. I'm sorry. Is that a question? Yes, why do you think is that answer that question that you post? I don't think it is dead. No, I think you have to recalibrate. And there was a theory. I almost actually made a movie with David O'Rossel immediately when Trump got was elected the first time. And he was like, no, we can't do it. There's no such thing as satire, but I think you just have to recreate and reinvent. And the show I did who is America, we actually looked at who were the people we wanted to interview and then engineered characters who they would speak to. So this character, the three characters in this movie, allergy, which obviously was from about 28 years ago, but the Israeli character was created because we felt that right when Republicans would speak to a kind of Israeli craftman guy expert and they would demonstrate their extreme fear of Muslims or people from Latin America. And this character could get them to do really extreme things. Right. These are real people you were talking to. And everyone I must say in the movie is completely real other than me, person playing allergy's girlfriend, and ASAP Rocky and his partner forget her name, is they're all saying on it. Everyone else are real unsuspecting people, including George Santos. Yes. So I just want to review some of the some of my favorite moments and then I do have a question. The Giuliani Hotel scene where you got a sitting presidential lawyer to end with to film a scene. It became actual news cycle weeks before the election. Jason Spencer, who is America, at Georgia State Legislator, shouted slurs and dropped his pants on camera for a fake anti-terror trainer. He resigned shortly after the episode. The Salem, Virginia, rodeo. We got thousands of people to cheer an increasingly bloodthirsty pro-war rant. Kindergarten's in 2018, you got gun rights advocates and politicians, including a former state Senate majority leader to endorse arming toddlers on camera. The Trump ice cream gloves, you pitched the current president on a seven-minute pitch on gloves that wouldn't stick while eating ice cream, the nude fight in the hotel. And I've asked you this in person. I see this stuff. I can't get over. And I mean this sincerely, how fearless you are, whether it's walking around in a thong, whether it's whether it's showing, we're showing up. By the way, he'd look right. There you go. Or showing up to a fairly uncomfortable wedding where you lift the veil and it's a man of a very, very conservative, efficient 99.99 percent of people would just never agree to do this thing. And other than the compliment here, as you have gotten older and I see this with a lot of artists, they kind of lose their mojo and their their fearlessness because they have families because they start to better understand the guardrails of society. Talk about the relationship between being fearless and as you've gotten older and if and how it has changed. Well, I don't think I'm fearless. I am terrified, but I have the ability to overcome my fear. So I did a movie called Bruno, where I'm playing this gay Austrian fashion reporter. The end of the movie, there's a cage fight. And I know that it's going to be very dangerous. We've been advised by a variety of security guards that would be impossible to get out without going to hospital and we hired the one guy who had an idea. You're going into something like that. You know this real danger. There's a chance that you end up in hospital. And it's terrifying. You'd have to be completely detached from reality to not have fear. But I have the ability to overcome it in the moment. And once I'm in character, I don't really feel the fear, which can be a little bit dangerous. We did a sequel to Borat that you mentioned Juliani's in. There was a gun rights rally and I'm on stage as Borat singing this song called the woo ham flu. What we're going to do? And check them with the woo ham flu. And everyone in the audience had semi-automatics. I was wearing a bulletproof vest, which I remember sticking it on in the morning and looking at the bathroom putting on a bulletproof vest and thinking, this is not a normal job. Why can't I be like my friend Larry David and go and play golf? And then once I'm actually in character, I'm not scared, which in that case it got to be dangerous because I decided to do another take because you know, usually there's only one take that we can use. And I thought, I'm on stage. Let me sing this song again. The crowd went really crazy, stormed the stage. I got chased out and surrounded by some angry gun-toting people. So I do feel the fear. Why did I do it this time? Because firstly, I feel this obligation to make my fans laugh and laugh really hard and I love making them laugh. And the second thing is I'm worried about where the world has headed. And you know, I don't like to be a celebrity in virtue signal, but the way I make comments is through movies and these lies, the hate and the conspiracies that are spread on social media platforms. And now I must tasterize through AI. I wanted to show that they have potentially lethal consequences. Right. Which I think a lot of people are coming around to. These recent, you know, the $25 billion Facebook, the 17 billion. And something you and I talked about a long time ago in an interview. One of the things, what Scott was getting at was how do you make satire work when reality becomes more outrageous than ever just this week. Putin got called the humanitarian. Trump said New Mexico should change his name to New America. And that's just Tuesday. And he also seems to have fixated on a senator's ass. I mean, how do you do that? How do you decide what is outrageous enough? Because life seems outrageous. I think satire is your, you look at something that you're trying to uncover. That hasn't been said at that point. So in two, I think it's a 2001 or 2002. I went into a bar as Borat and sang, "Throw the jude down the well." And they sang along. At that point, it was seen as deeply revealing. You know, look at the underbelly of anti-Semitism in America. It was shocking. I mean, if I did that now, it would not be interesting at all because, obviously, anti-Semitism has increased. So satire is, you know, as a satireist, you continually need to look at what is the thing that you're trying to shine a light on or trying to uncover. And yes, you know, we have a different type of president now. We're transitioning into authoritarianism. It doesn't mean that there aren't things that are worth uncovering. And I believe in this movie is shocking. The people come out of it and they cannot believe the things that they see. People do. People do. You got to get people to do. Yeah. Yeah, although this week with Vivek Ramaswamy, that hand, it was just like, can't even believe it. But talk about you. But people, in the beginning, it was what's funny about Donald Trump and Markable. Two things. From your perspective, is he still funny and Markable, someone like Donald Trump, or is it just got curdled into this sort of daily ugliness essentially? And one of the things you just referenced, you called social media. And I'll never forget this. you're one of the first people I interviewed who was sort of in the movie industry to talk about this. You called it the greatest propaganda machine in history and AI, it's monstrous child. Who do you see as a bigger danger? Is it Donald Trump or the combination of the two? - I think it's the combination of the two. I don't think democracy is compatible with social media. And I actually, many years ago, trying to speak to all the heads of the tech companies to warn them about that, thinking, oh, they would realize that and they would care. And then I realized actually they were completely disinterested in protecting democracy. - And then showed up at Donald Trump's table every week, essentially. - Yes. I mean, when the political system you're in changes, then it's unsurprising that major corporations will behave like they were doing a different political system. But I think it's not just the thing about Donald Trump is, this is a controversial comment. He is amusing. He is, I mean, the economists use this term the cometitions. There is a huge amount of comedy in the way he speaks. He's intentionally being funny. And if you have a look at a lot on the far right, they use comedy, they use sarcasm, they're being funny and it's an engaging way to dismiss criticisms. So yes, he is, we can laugh at him, but he's entertaining, and that was the thing that I think we talked about last time as well was, very early on we started noticing in 2019 that social media was spreading stuff that was interesting, whether it was funny or outrageous or inciting hatred or violence, and the stuff that was not funny or boring or truthful as we know it had this resistance. And I remember speaking to a whistleblower from Facebook who was telling me that in the election, 2016 election, they charged depending on the virality of the advert. And basically Trump's adverts were a lot more viral and Hillary's were a lot more sticky. So they cost a lot more. So therefore at that point, I was like, oh, well, you're going to win an election if you're saying outrageous things, if you're saying lies. So fundamentally the two are incompatible and go and see my movie. (laughing) - Well, no, but yes, what is that? - My partner's just in the corner going, - Yeah, to your head. - Yeah, but it is, that's what this is about. - Yeah, to call you a see-where to go. - Well, okay, you're a cut. But the movie is about that. It is truly about that. Yeah, you know what I mean? It is about what's the most outrageous thing that can happen and it just continues to get more outrageous over time. And then Allie G sees what he's done is damaging, right? You have a bit of a revelation in this movie. - Yeah, I mean, you know, in all of these movies, the main characters have a transformation, but it's about 10%. If they transform too much, they're not funny anymore. But really we're showing what does people go, okay, we're in, it's very hard to stop for a moment and think where are we headed? And I think we're in this world of virtuous violence where people believe that they can hate, that they can attack certain ethnic or religious or groups or, you know, women or people who are vulnerable and it's virtuous. And why I wanted to share at the end of the movie while still being really funny and it is hilarious for those people listening watching is that, you know, we could take intelligent people and turn them into murderers in a matter of hours because they believe in a conspiracy theory that had been spread by a leader on social media. - Right, absolutely, Scott. - So raising a middle-class family, and a lot of people don't know, it's about you, you found your way to Cambridge, which someone who lives in London, trust me, that is not easy, it involves a lot of achievement. And then you graduated, I would imagine your parents, your career counselor, your peers, probably didn't say, okay, you should go dress up as a drug dealer and go to Wimbledon. And like, what was the moment getting out of Cambridge where you thought, I could actually do this. I could actually, when did that happen? And then my second question going to the other end is where do you want to be in 10 years? Like, what would, what would feel good for you in terms of purpose and feeling satisfied, something you look to achieve or where you want to be in 10 years? - Okay, so the first question, yeah. I started history at Cambridge. I did my undergraduate thesis on black and golden, sorry, Jewish involvement in the black civil rights movement. That went really well and I got asked to do a PhD in Cambridge and Oxford. It's completely corrupt. You can skip doing your masters. You get an automatic masters for, I think it's for a hundred pounds. It's a complete, if anyone ever has a degree that says MA, can tap or oxon, it's a fake degree. So I was asked to do a PhD, I started it. I was a bit couple of days in. It was on Jewish involvement in black civil rights movements, looking at American civil rights movement and the South African one. And seeing, was there something about Jewish radicalism? Two days in, I got really bored. I was in the library, none of my mates were there. There were, you know, none of the people that I've found said were there. I stopped here. A bunch of management consultants came to university and they were, you know, looking for good students to become management consultants or work in the city. And I was like, no, I want to be an actor. I assumed immediately I had been playing Fiddler on the roof as my last play in Cambridge. I thought, I'm going to go to the West End. I'm going to be the understudy of Top Hall. Here at that point, I was playing it in the West End and it's going to work. I got out of university and I couldn't even get an audition. My English, my accent was not quite posh enough to get cast. I thought I had a pretty good voice. I couldn't get cast in musical. I was completely unemployed and gave myself five years to make some form of a living out of it. And really, I had my break about four years and 11 months into it. And as far as going on to the second question, 10 years time, I've got no idea. I've never really had much of a career plan. I came out of Cambridge. I thought, can I make a living, almost failed. Ali G happened and suddenly really became an overnight sensation. A lot of that was to do with technological advances that I was doing sketches, skits that were three minutes long. And at that point, you could attach by email something about three minutes long. So it went super fast, super big. And then after I was like, wow, I'm a comedian now. This is incredible. This is my dream. Then I had a new dream, which was, could I make one excellent comedy film? And I made the first Ali G film, which I wasn't really happy with. I was trying to do like a Farley Brothers film. And then I made Ball Rat, and then I was like, wow, I've done it. So I don't really know. I mean, I'm going now to do a play in the West End, written and directed by Quentin Tarantino. And hopefully that's going to be really good fun. But I don't really have a 10-year plan. But let me just go on later, deeper than that. OK. Distinctive, the professional success. You're no longer a young man trying to workshop shit. You've had some success. You have some economic security. You've had a lot of life experience. What are you seeking in 10 years? What will feel as if, you know, or when we get close to the end? What will feel for you? He's asking for a friend, Sasha. Listen, this is why I go out with him at 10 o'clock at night. But I'm actually trying to find purpose. I'm trying to find the answer. This is like a lesbian collectivity, with you. Yeah, this is like, you know, this is what happens. When you're over six foot three, there's not many people you can see how to eye with. You're 65, aren't you, Scott? No, good news is I'm shrinking. No, but as we get towards the end, and it's going to get faster than we are-- Well, that old, okay, and I'm hoping that they are. Okay, I know what people may not know about this. You're a very spiritual guy. What is it? What is it you want to think? What box is it you want to have checked? Not professionally, as you get older. Like, what is that sense of accomplishment and purpose you're seeking? So, I mean, I'm not particularly self-aware, but, you know, family is very important to me. I do feel, it was interesting, on this last movie. We didn't include it in the movie. But as Dr. Naira Cain and Diego Cello, I interviewed Dr. Fauci for about an hour and a half. I was trying to get him to agree with this absurd conspiracy theory about Ali G, and he refused to do it. And it was really-- I interviewed him, and it was fascinating. And I know he's hated by a huge swath of the American public. And it was really actually sad to hear his day-to-day life and how he asked the hide. But he talked about this idea of public service. And I'm not saying I-- have that but I do feel that I have an opportunity I should at least try to make the world a slightly more tolerant place and it's become far more intolerant since you know I started in this business at the beginning it was about making people laugh I was always interested in the satirical side and in the 90s late 90s in England it was you know enathomer to bring in anything in satirical like the first ball at movie I showed the movie to one of the heads of Fox and he said listen you've made a comedy and a satire choose which one you can't have both and I said well I believe I can do a satirical comedy but why do I put on a bulletproof vest why do I make a movie like this that took three years that I mean the final scene really is one of the hardest scenes ever shot in cinematic history it's an eight hour continuous shot there are hundreds of things that can go wrong their explosions a somebody gives birth half way through it there's drones there's guns it's incredibly hard each time I did it it cost four million dollars I lost three million dollars of my own money the first time I did it why do I do it and I think it is I am worried about where we're headed I think a lot of people are a lot of people just put their heads down I have at the moment got a bit of a platform I don't know how many people will see this movie but I want them to stop and think and I want them to say hold on we're heading down towards this path this idea that every idea is equal and you know this new reinvention of freedom of speech by these tech billionaires who are completely disinterested in freedom of speech you know they're completely using this term as a way to make money essentially is very dangerous because nothing do with freedom of speech it's these violent conspiracies these hate and these and this these lies they get pushed down and it affects what people do you know that is correct like you know but generally the sixth I always thought they're I remember in England people are like oh and it's disgusting I get it's not disgusting that if you really believed that democracy was being destroyed and an election had been stolen why wouldn't you storm the capital and protect democracy it's the lie that's told to them right that's right it's it's impossible now to distinguish truth from lies well that is the biggest danger I think you're absolutely right anyway I just want to point out you've got an interview with Boutros Boutros Galley and I never did which is fantastic Boutros Boutros Boutros Boutros Galley that's why you got it and I didn't Sasha Verenko and thank you and thank you for being a friend to Scott he really needs it yeah he really tells him he's very popular you should do you should do Academy in cuddle soon it would be great for him so the movie is Ali G who is I it'll be in theaters when this episode drops it's very funny we appreciate you being here thank you Sasha alright well likewise there's a huge fan and a few of Scott I don't like which he's trying to incine your hair but there you go there's just a couple of told men with a bit of anything for the movie yeah anything for the Prem a lot of feels anyway thank you Sasha all right okay thank you very much thanks brother Scott I like your friend all right one more quick break we'll be back for predictions first citizens innovation banking formally Silicon Valley Bank is the bank of the innovation economy the name may have changed but for over 40 years their commitment to bold ideas for a little as ambition and delivering what's next is as strong as ever so if you're wondering where the road innovation starts it's here first citizens innovation banking head to first citizens dot com slash innovation to learn more running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project one app for accounting another for inventory another for sales and somehow none of them talk to each other that's where auto comes in and all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing all in one powerful platform no messy integrations no bouncing between tabs and best of all no spreadsheets stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system try for free today at od dot com slash box that's od o dot com slash box support for the show comes from USA facts income inequality entitlements housing costs want to really see what the government is up to what it costs and who is benefiting check out a debate on the American dream between Scott Galloway and Ben Shapiro it's not your typical sound bites from boring politicians reading talking points the debate is framed by an informative set of government facts from USA facts and then Ben and Scott get into it there are sharp differences some common ground and data and facts that leave you knowing more check out the full debate now on the USA facts youtube channel okay Scott let's hear a prediction can i just go first i just can i the bankruptcy of character a i couldn't happen to a nicer company and the reason they did it it's part of a deal to acquire its technology and hire most of its staff disney uh is doing this it's not i don't think it's fully done yet but it's trying to avoid the startup's legal liabilities which include parents who are suing because it's a shitty heinous product and um you know i i don't like all the machinations to get out of the technology stuff and disney of all companies given out with his character as history and also disney had an issue with them using disney characters in any case so glad you're gone character a i so that's all i have to say yeah basically a pre-packaged bankruptcy where they got the people and they got the technology and the shareholders got wiped out including the founder he had the founders now the chief technologist it is near there you go uh so my prediction is i'm predicting that if you had to pick one company that that one a i like who is the one who who gets to sit on the iron throne i think a lot of people would say realistically it's going to be in video i my prediction is something different i think the winner of a i and i i don't i'm not happy about this but i just look at the metrics and the data i think the winner of a i is going to be metta and my buddy Whitney Tillson afforded me this and it just like you know occasionally read something or like god that just resonates is so true let's talk about metta it's got a real mode metta's a i strategy is just it's bearing fruit you look at the numbers and just and i realize this is anecdotal evidence i can't get over how addictive this product has become i i just think that their ability to serve you the right content of the right moment is striking and they are either the biggest or the second biggest vendor on a i right now and i think it's i think it's the best example of how to get ROI on a i um so leading models metta is arguably at parody according to certain evaluators with anthropic and open a i in terms of the quality of their llm it's got unmatched distribution kira they have direct relationships with 500 million businesses they're already in they already have a direct relationship with 500 million businesses which the other kind of frontier model startups don't have they have thousands and they can credibly build an agent agent network starting with their three billion daily active users and 500 million businesses the the app muse is at the top or near the top of downloaded apps it's free and you're going to see this agentic layer that everyone from banyoff to wired him and talking about where your agentic travel vehicle is going to go talk to every agent from delta or the hilton and figure out your travel no one is better positioned to pull this off because they already apple is apple isn't really going that hard today i know it is i'm just saying apple is positioned apple is yeah but i don't they they i think they're sitting this one out and it might be the right move yeah and they're going to in my opinion they're going to pull the search and just license it to the highest bitter integrity capital i just bought the duo by the way so they in my view they can build that agent to agent network starting with their three billion users and 500 million businesses muse is talking directly to business muse via personal agent protocol huge mode and revenue unlock potential muse is moving to a confidential voicemail where even medicancy content which should should assuage some privacy concerns there were some leaks you know of some of it and also you just got to give it to the guy i think is associate path but i think arguably he's the best executor in modern day business yeah he's kind of the gates remember how when gates had that title so you have you have the technology the capital that this requires that few companies can keep up with and then a built-in audience of 500 million businesses and three billion consumers this all translates to compounding advantage. - And also the energy. He really does his competitive energy. He really, it's sustained. He hasn't lost a step in that regard. You know, he still is aggressive and sort of insecure as ever, which sort of fuels some of it, I think. - I just, I, anyways, my prediction is the following. - It's important to be like that. - My prediction is the following that in three years, we're gonna look at the AIH, and we're gonna say who won. And I, everyone right now is saying, well, it's between the big winner will either be on Thropic, Open AI, and Vidya is the safe one for everybody. I think the surprise winner of AI is Meta. - Can I make a counter? I think it's gonna be Google. - You can just be Google. I think that's a fair one too. But similar reasons. - It's just being more utilitarian about using it. And I had a really interesting interview with Reed Hastings yesterday. He's on the board of Anthropic, by the way. His left Netflix a while ago, and he's left his chairman, and now he's running a ski mountain, which is kind of funny. But one of the things he said, I think, you know, it doesn't, Google is, he said, I was asking him about the problems with AI and the imagery of it, like because the PR is pretty bad. And he said, once it becomes useful to people, and that stuff will fall away eventually, as long as we provide correct guardrails, he's been a big democratic supporter, but, and he's correct. I think whoever is more useful is going to win. And he was talking about utilitarian. And when Facebook started, Mark got a lot of criticism for calling Facebook a utility, and I thought he was dead right to call it that, because my space was fun. He said, where are utility? And I think whoever is the utility of this, and it could be, it could be Apple. They'll probably do it more creatively. Could be Google or, and Facebook is the, you're absolutely right, those are the three. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot. To submit a question for the shore call 85551Pivot. And reminder, Scott and I are hitting the road in a few weeks for the second annual pivot tour. We're going out, go to pivottour.com for tickets. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is scrolling. We'll be back next week. - Today's show is produced by Larry Neiman, so my Marcus Taylor Griffin and Todd Weissman, earning a shout-out interview at this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros. and Miss Varian Dance Lawn and Kate Gallagher. Nishtar Kura has asked me to executive reviews for podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Box Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend. 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