Elliot Daly: Joker in the Wolf Pack

- Before you went, it's freckin'. - Oh God. I know. It's how old much I've had. You were the oldest player he ever played with. Who was the oldest player you ever played with? - Dickie Jeeps, as well. - I don't know. - You got around here, was that? Can't think you had a brief, as I didn't have a brief. - Yeah, you're like, "I didn't have a brief." - I didn't have a brief. - Which 17 year old dude? - Well, yeah. I keep getting flashbacks of him, like his booth front hair, like side-depping running to rug. Beep, punch, and I come out of you, bowl, flip, weave. Just a word on this weekend, there's great history between you two. - Does the week write itself? - I mean, if you don't get out of this game, it's not going to get up for really. Alex Payne trying to keep the site going forward. Haskell takes it on now with just relentless chat. And there's Tindal to add the finishing touch of Glamour and World Cup winning stories. A dominant display by the good, the bad, and the rugby. - How did you get here today? - Show for public transport. - What is that? - What is that? - Do you, but a bit you love, did you get small scraps of that? - No, I just rubbed into the. - I'm from London. - You like the Oval. - Yeah, I do love the Oval. - I said that the only time to the Oval stations goes to the cricket. - Yeah. - What's your favourite ground in, Lord? - I like the Oval. - Yeah, Loosa. - Is it? - What, but just in terms of everyone's smash at the time? - You're quite good. - Very good cricket set. - You were extremely good. - For a naughty-looking schoolboy, he's permanently stayed the same way you were looking at each other. - No, I was very quick and I was younger and kind of everyone got up to my speed. - But then I had to put on a bat suit. - Did you play England. - Yeah, 15-60s. - Did you genuinely think that you could have made it for England? - Yeah. - Well, I'm not England. - You generally think you would have played it. - I do say on a regular basis if you gave me six months of your play, I'm sorry. - But that's a bit of a joke. - Who else was in your. - Caster group, the age group. - Ben Focus is probably the only one that's gone through. - Probably. - If we were to throw you which England rugby player could transfer most effectively to another sport? - Who would it be? - You'd be in the category, wouldn't you? - So you could probably be Caster group. - Golf starts football. - Find golf quite hard. - Athletics. - Golf is really. - You have to be really good. - Yeah, but some of it. - I don't think he could get that. - No, because people like Julian Dixon, golf, and literally he played all time. - Yeah. - Once you get to zero, there's a whole new goal. - Yeah, that's the thing. The best ones are probably two or three on the game. - We got a bell call in here when you were in New York. - I mean, you've got to get to plus six to be. - Team sport can hide a bit. - Yeah, competing with the likes of the quality pros and getting to past zero to plus one. Yeah, think of which Hendon plays, thinking he's off plus one. - Okay, so who would be the best transferable athlete? And you could include yourself. - Ben always quite. - He's got a good game. - That's the thing, if you're saying golf, Ben always very good at golf. - He plays a fight three or four. - Was he not quite good at cricket? - He was good at cricket. - Would he be good at rugby league? - Yeah, he would be. - Is that how many? - No, I don't think so. - I'm not sure if he's got some skills. - I think he would take it. - Luckily, I had lots to take it. - He'd be taking the pay cut to be the rugby league. - Yeah, but I've heard lots of them. - He's still taking the pay cut in the NREL because they get. - I can be a. - I just think. - Dollars. - I might not. - Ben L will be up there. - He was a good crypto. - Yeah. - He posed that for all of it. - He did, didn't he? - Who's the best at the darts? - Luke Kounder, he or she's pretty stupid. - Really? - Pretty stupid. - Can throw some darts. - Jess? - He's got a bit of a bit of a. - He's got a bit of a. -. it almost plays it in. - Yeah, I know. - Pretty stupid. - What about any of the young crop? Could Calurri cross to something else? AFL? AFL? - Yeah, probably AFL. - AFL. - He was in the kicking himself, though. - Not like really good. - Which you have to be as equally good at catching kicking. - Could you have done an NFL kicking? - Never tried it. - Do you see that guy this year who hit the world from 70? - Did he? - Yeah. - I was thinking. - What's going on? - Never hit the world for that. - No. - How old are you now? - 33. - I'm 33. - What do you mean? - You're old, you're literally. - I'm 41. - You're 41. - That's what I mean. - Oh God. - That's all you mean. - I know. - That's how old I'm about. - I know, but you have an age. - I haven't. - You're right. - You're getting swept further and further over. - Yeah, it's fucking boring in here. - Get it, get it, get it, get it. - I'm pretty down. - Yeah, but it's still coming down. Continental tyres. Continental tyres are the official tyre partner not Ovingham rugby. Engineered for victory. The award-winning tyres are built to perform no matter the conditions. Get yourself involved in the comments section and make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And in studio today, it's a very warm welcome. A particularly warm welcome with the temperature, the mercury rising well over 50 degrees in our studio. So the Sarasas England and Lions legend, Mr Elliot, Daily, how are you? - Yeah, I'm good, how are you? - I'm very well. - It is very hot now. - It's very hot now. - It's very warm, sweaty. - I'm sorry. - It's very nice to have you with us. This was arranged when I think you were having quite a good crack at Lewis's Lewis Moody's testimonial dinner. You then went dark radio for about a month and a half. And then you brought up what kind of happens. - You know what I mean? - The Saturday midnight. I said, "Great, I'll be on my Monday." We're like, "Okay, go back to panic stations." - I'm still waiting for you to read a message from 2017. - Yeah, that goes to my junk all day. - Yeah, that goes to far. - Oh, I'm tired. - Yeah, I'm just going to go. - Who does? - Yeah. - It was always interesting that night. Because he randomly came up to me. He didn't really say hello. And he went, "You're the oldest player I've ever played with." - We had a good conversation about that then. - Who's like the oldest player? No, it wasn't actually you. - Yes, it was. It was. - It wasn't really you. - It wasn't me. - It wasn't me because you don't talk to me. - No, no, yeah. - I don't get that hum. - You already had a hum. - A.K. briefcase. I taught me everything I know. - No, no skills in rugby. - But actually, I taught me everything I know. Met one bird who was his teacher and married him. That's the end of his stories. - She said, "I wasn't my teacher." - She wasn't again. - There's a lot of mileage in that story. - Oh, yeah. - Do you clarify? - She was teaching me at one point. She was this. She was that. - Really? - She did the ladies well. - Yeah, yeah, of course she was. - That's what everyone said. - She worked most well jobs. - Yeah, she did. - I looked at the lady P. T. - Professional. - Welcome along. There's obviously a lot of history between three. So you are the oldest player he ever played with. And he ever played with. - Yeah, well, this is where the conversation went. Who was the oldest? I think he'd rolled onto the floor by then. - And I'm not a doctor. - Dicky Jeeps or something. - It's nearly as bad. - Where the hell is she? - I think the way about this, we tried to. - Put it in the ball up. - It's either Simon Gagan or the one that only I never was. - Yeah, it would be. - Oh, you said that. - Who would I have played with? - The oldest people I've played with. - Well, who was the oldest player when you were coming through? - It was Simon Gagan. - The other one that came with Simon Shaw for us. - Yeah, sure, it was. - Because he's 52. - Kenny was Kenny Salay. - Kenny was still there when I was played. - Yeah, Kenny was there. - Kenny was there. - Did you play with him? - Yeah, warm up against Clare Monfrom. I don't even know the tone. - It's a great game. You can't remember any of the people you finished your career. I don't know of the people you started with. - Yeah, no any of the academy does. - Who needs to know? - I'm a turn out Tim Willis. - I'm a lead star. - He's the one who's the premier of the year. - He's the one who is Tim Wallace. - Tim Wallace, yeah. - He's genuinely. - Yeah, but he was better at that. - He was better at that. - He didn't actually know. Most of the time. - But Big Spue, Will Stewart, he was a academy player, Ray. - Never thought he'd make it. He did. - He's a academy player. - He's the best man of the series. - What was your day one at Wasps like? - Well, day one probably was like preseason. Don't really remember it. When I was like 17, and then proper day one is when they call me and said you're playing this weekend. And I was like, right, I'm training the team once. So he's sure and I was like, "We're gonna play a game." I was like, yeah. He was like, "Hey everybody 15." I was like, "No, you're playing 15." I was like, "Okay, sweet." And that was it. - What was the game? And what was the, and we used to do the school. - I think it was, yeah. - 'Cause I was like, "I was like, four kick off." - I think it was St. George's Day game against Bath. It was my first day. Proper start. And you started out of 15, having never played 15 before, 48 hours of notice. Fair play. Josh Lucy came back for that game as well. - Did it? - Yeah. We got absolutely smashed against Bath. Now it was the last St. George's Day game. - Right. - But back to my first day. - Yeah. - If you would. - Yeah. - A few days. - Well, first proper day I walked in and they called me from school. So I walked basically, got on the train straight away, had to ask whether I could leave school, got on the train, went, got off at Acton Walked. And then they were like, "Oh, the meeting started, "but you can go in if you want." I was like, "I don't think I want to go in." - No, I wouldn't know. - I was like, "False, go in and form." I'm like, "Ruck's act on." - Shut up. - Shorts. - No, I'm a shark. - How about having a work? - I wasn't saying what. - What generation are you in right now? - I'm just picking a point. - Did you get a big story about it too? - Did you get a big lolly? - Big story. - Yeah, yeah. - As they were looking at me with a little boat to hat on. - And as I was like, "Oh, go in." And like, a bit of a creaky door, but like, went in and as I let the door go, like slam behind me. - Oh. - And everyone I looked around and it was just a basic evidence that I laughed at me. - Oh my God, imagine. - Rob Webber was a captain at the time. He was like, "It was when in between as long as he called me briefcase, "Wanker from it." - Yeah. - Briefcase. - Briefcase. - This is a good thing. - And then the one so. - 'Cause like, you got to round up, he was like, "Can't we go to briefcase?" I was like, "I didn't have a briefcase." - Yeah, I'm getting really upset. I didn't have a briefcase. - I haven't briefed, which 17 year old me put a match. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah, I didn't have a briefcase. - Did you have a book of sacchals? - You were a bit of a booker. - Then I've wicker sacchals and tailed. - I bunches and a pinball. - Did you wear school? - I'm just painting pictures of school since about three. - Why is it still going to school now? - Fuck. - We know the answer to that. - Yeah, we know. - So, yeah. - Yeah, ladies. - In the coming of on, you've got to learn to swim pretty quickly. How long did it therefore take to sort of, I mean, you are very good at taking the crap when it flies. Was that day one, or have you grown to be that person? - I didn't bother me at all to ask. - Really? - But it kind of got me in there quicker. Like, a bit of an ice break is no one knew how I was. - No. - So it was kind of, everyone called me briefcase, was a bit like funny. - Who was coaching you at that time? - Sean. - Sean and Tony Hanks. - Tony Hanks was there. And then it was a big die. And what was it like going back into school? Having played in the St. George's Day game at Twickenham. He got applauded in. No, it's really, not really. - Max Dammon. - Max Dammon. Oh yeah. Not like that, no. I mean, we got battered by 50 points. It's a bit different. If I scored a hat trick, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Is he just sort of quite normal about everything that he goes on? I always just see him as a naughty school boy, but he's like a dad. He's like lion, he's, you know, one more trophy. I just think it's amazing, but he never seemed to ever get bothered by that much. And also, it always remains the same disposition. Always very excitable. Like we would describe you back into those a fuck boy, you know, perfect bottle flipping, bottle flipping, you know, all those stuff like, all those kind of fidget spinners, all that kind of nonsense. All that cliché stuff, a naughty school, but you know, he's like sure, untouched, hat round the wrong way, flipping bottles, landing stuff, scoring goals. So it's more like a growth, we're just going up. Like going all you got something behind you, turn around, wow, one can one nail the walk off. Like sticking posted, those keep me, like archetypal kid. Imagine a little red and white cat with a propeller on it. That was him just laugh. Yeah, but Supreme, I mean, I'm excited. Kind of similar to what I'm now. Yeah, basically. Yeah, still changed. But now you're dead at work. I'm saying still the same guy. Every prank going. Yeah, prankster. Not as bad as Joe Simpson though. No, I moved into place in Lemmington. When we all moved up and a basey, there's a season ticket holder, two doors down for me. And I was telling the story in Simo, like, seemed really interested in it. And I was like, it's a bit weird him taking like, he was like, is it time to like, is it down to your left? You're right. I told him, I thought, that was bad. But I've already told him, that was it. And then my mate gives me a tip off one night, he's like, mate, Simo's done, I don't know what he's done. He's come back to the house like laughing. I'm like, oh, God, what's he done? And like, there's a knock on my door. And then I open the door. And this guy, the season ticket holder, holding this card. And in the card is like, he's Simo's scrawny little hand writing. I was like, that's Simo's hand writing. I can see it from my life. It was like a five year old's done it. And it basically says that I get to it off. He's like, oh mate, love your support for us. Come round at seven tonight for a cup of tea if you want under chat. So I kind of put two and two together when they got when I opened the door. And he's holding this thing. I'm like, that's Simo. So I don't know what it's like. She kept it at the door for like 10 minutes chat and then that was it. So what we did, I mean, I didn't know he wanted to come and he was just standing there. He's on the floor. You know, Simo won a cup of tea. He's on a cup of tea voucher. He's got a cup of tea. No, one can say that. Yeah, I can't. But fans, we've got one cup of tea in a gnaw's off for at least 30 minutes and a bit. What is your charge for that? Big of a feature. Co-operty said, do you know what? Also, Joseph's in love. Yeah, he's just a nice chair. Yeah, he's just a friend. Yeah, he's a friend of mine. Joseph wants to send me a book to restaurant. That's a similar thing. I don't think I've ever been in that. That's the evil mind. That's what I don't do, Proud. So I've got the evil mind. So come on, good question. Are there particular clubs where this is way more prevalent than others? Or is there a pocket of people in every club that behaves like that? Yeah, I think so. I mean, Joseph was particularly. Because he would skim the top of crumbles off. Yeah, which is all about how you skim a mug or that. No, no, no, no. He would leave all the fruit. You'd see that ball. Which is probably the biggest heinous crime in rugby. It can lead to crumbling the crumbles. Yeah. Because it can be the moral. It's absolutely shot to pieces there. One studio vertical. It's all horizontal. Yeah, right. He never knowing the et fruit. So that it was going to be a trial for his. So he skim all the crumble we wanted. But he basically wants, he then wants to, I ordered this glitter bomb thing to somebody's house. Where like it opened and just went in a cloud of good litter. J'en how hard it is to get glitter off? And also you get covered in it. So everyone's going to be in the strippers. He would love this. He would love this. Yeah, sorry. He's in the love of interest. Fucking be anywhere. He's in France. No, he's in Cheltenham now. M.I.5 taking down Skins. Yeah. One crank at a time. Frank at a time. Troy Morales. Who else is in, who is good to bounce off at salaries? There's loads of that to be fair. Do you know George's like shadow? Yeah, yeah. Big shadow. No. Yeah. Jinks are, yeah, hang around with Jinks a lot. But in terms of that kind of love. Right. Yeah. Who do not want to be next to in the change room? I, I, they probably don't want to be next to me. Yeah. To be too tell honest. But, um, the bottles. I'm just consistently annoying. Yeah. So not just sort of muffin down. It's just like constant. Yeah. So you know what you're getting. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But I'll let it say. If you're engaging in, you know what's coming. Yeah, exactly. So do you, are you, are you alone wolf at Sarasthan's then? Or are there other people who are walking? Have you brought on young academy kids? Trying to bring your own haters along with the ride with me at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Has he got potential? He's got potential. Yeah. He needs to be a bit louder for me. That's about it. On his feet back form. Yeah. Yeah. And he's got a lot of screams, cheers. Yeah. I'm what I know. So do you think it should be? Yeah. It's very Johnny. Yeah. It's a bit like me and Johnny got on really well. Really. As you can imagine. Yes. I can see that just like levels. But every time I've ever tried Scott Nathes. Yeah. Yeah. I think. You see, look at Elliot. You know, you look at where he played. You're not assuming. I think because he's so going to what he did play him. I'm very, very competitive on the field. But off there was, it's the same level on the fields off the field. With no unrequited, like energy loss. It's just giving tasks off the field. He was very good. Yeah. In that barbarians thing. Like go sort of. Yeah, you know, I was a bit sketchy about that. That's what you're just playing off. You were a highness. Yeah. Or a warrant. Yeah. To me and Sam, like you need to organise all of the London trip in the bar bars. And you would go, you would go to church. Hollywood bowl. Roll with this guy. That's why you send him. That's what I mean. Like, sagging on. Yeah. Crystal Maze. And to me, he didn't mean. Yeah, he did. How old were you when that? With that was barbarians. K-13. 19. Do you go to Hong Kong? Yeah. Of course. You know, you had some quite big days, quite quick. Yeah, yeah. Well, I wasn't actually picked on that originally. So it was quite a lot. It was actually quite annoying for me. Because the only reason I wanted to go on that barbarians was to play against the Lions and then die. I was coachy. Sposedly coachy, we died, but never spoke to me. Which was really awkward. So I played in the England games. Was there something in that? No, I don't think so. It's just a strange character. Yeah, yeah. And I was still playing in the closer lads. So I don't know whether he's still somebody who's a player or whatever. Or he just didn't really rate me. Whatever. But so then they started me in the England game. You started the full match. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you scored. We got beat by 40 points to something. And then, and then I was like, right, I'll play the Hong Kong game. He goes, well, actually, I'm going to play out of it. And I was like, he's 19. He's got many times that he could play in this. There's a whole lot of reasons I've come. He's like, well, you're going to sit on the bench. I was like, right. Hey, you can do it. Why don't you talk to me? Yeah. I was going to talk to you anyway. You're going to talk to me this time. Yeah. What's it you're off at? I was just like, fuck say. You're on the count for one. I've only come for one reason. Who do you line up against? I can't remember. Is it Jamie Davis? John Foxx was there. Yeah. Foxy. Wow. I mean, we had a good ball area, he just came as well. We had rock of cocoa. Yeah. I mean, we had a good ball area. Unfortunately, he didn't give me that one. Well, what Haskell, he says, he's like, he does that to push you a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But there is always a caveat. He was when things, when I did do things well, he told you that. So you've got to have the balance between the two. I mean, happy Father's Day to Mr. Tindal Senior and all the good dads out there. I remind a Remi Marta VSOP as the ultimate Father's Day gift. Get your ball bearings gift box whilst stocks last in all major retailers. And you can celebrate Father's Day with Remi Marta VSOP. Please do enjoy responsibly. Can I ask you about the weekend and about Mark McCool? Did you go in? Did you celebrate with him? Yeah, yeah. Before we should do that, we should hold your arm up. Because there's a reason you're not playing it. It's like a feature of this. Can you accept the weekend? I think you're in there. I'll just let's see you on there. I was like, I might start. charging for it. Yeah, we do. So just to try and describe it, you've got the first one. You've got a scar from almost your thumb to your elbow or the inside and on the outside of the arm, you've got it in almost the same top of your wrist to your elbow as well. So how many stitches have you had on either side to start? So you've got to start, they don't really do like internal stitches, they don't do stitches on the outside. So stay put. I don't, I think they do internal and then they glue it. I think I don't know. Because you just walk out like this. I just walked out with like a plaster on that. And what have you done? Just did one on the line, it's all lost somewhere. Yeah, that was a car crash of a, they did an extra, it was in like a million pieces. It was a real shame because you were flying on that tour. Yeah, but I mean, it's, I'm quite good at like it's one point of his like a little bit like obviously I was very disappointed, but I mean, I didn't think it was going to go on until anyway. So to go again, it was brilliant and to play the cricket about three days later, weren't you? Yeah, I was thinking you were testing that. Yeah. So what do you actually do? I, um, fractured my radius and then it was quite a complicated surgery the first one. So it was like three and a half hours and then I came back. It basically doesn't fully heal for like over a year. Right. So it obviously you've got a plate in there and it will heal kind of round the plate and but it doesn't like fully, fully heal for like a year, but you can't obviously wait a year to play. Yeah. So I just was playing with like a basically a shim pedal arm. I've got a wax straight on this side and then the plate slightly just ever so slightly and that basically cause a fracture on the other side. Right. You're winning. Yes, just horrible. It's just, it is really interesting with surgery and bone healing that obviously in sport, you work to these arbitrary things that people tell you, oh, that's going to be a six month injury. I'm going to do it in three months. That takes 12 months, but by all the way you heal when you heal and there is in it and something's on, but the other times that you'll take a blow there or or there actually getting hit or whatever. That's the thing and when if you're tackling, you're going to get a knee in there. So what are they said now? When will you be back? So I've got another plate on the side now. Right. So play either side and then you could just have a z-way. Yeah. You could just walk over and you're all trouble. You just get a like terminator. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. That's not a suggested man. That's what Tweety's just I do. I'm going to get a blood. Yeah. But I think I'll be back for next season. I'll be back for preseason games. So I'm not okay. It's kind of a bit annoying to miss a summer with England stuff, but actually to get it right is giving me a longer time to get it right. So she's quite a nice thing. We'll talk more about England, except a little bit later on, but the question I was going to ask you is about Mark McCall. Tell us about what it was like backstage. He's the consumer pro. We'd love to have interviewed him here, but I don't think he does many of those sorts of things. He doesn't love the cameras. No. He'd be a fascinating guy to talk to, though. No, he would be. But was it what was it like backstage when the cameras had gone and it was just so you say he's very very like what he says is very personal. That makes sense. He's not a he's not a waffler. He's not a he doesn't say stuff just for the sake of saying it. Like if he's saying it, he's actually putting like a very valid point out. So he thinks about what he says. He's I think he's trying to take the emotion out of it at the moment, because I think when he when he does finish, but he's not I wouldn't say he's an overly emotional guy when he goes to the season. I think he's such a consistent guy that's never up, never down. Like he's obviously gets more excited or if we're under pressure, there's a bit more pressure, but you don't see it with him. He's kind of the guy. He kind of levels everybody out. He's done I think he's he's done 17 years with Saris and 15 years ago, he's in charge of Saris one of their first premiership. And then obviously it's gone on to be a hugely successful period with one or two sort of controversial elements attached to as well. But what will life be like post Markle? What does he I mean, he's obviously very consistent, but how does he run the week? What kind of a sort of director of rugby is that? There's some really nice stuff on TNT. I can't remember if you want to say, but it's sort of Jamie and Mario talking about just the man rather than the director of rugby. Yeah, I think that's probably what you would you would say he is as well like he's on off the pitch exactly the same look. So it's you can have a conversation. I see the game quite similar to how he sees the game and he puts a lot of emphasis on say if I'm playing with Owen that we make sure we run the game properly and that kind of thing and he puts emphasis on the players to bring what they're good at, but also understand what we need to get out of this game or if it is a final then I think the way he preps their coaches and preps their senior players is a way that obviously gets the best out of them as you can see that we've treated the last six games as finals and was it five games before you're five on the bounce? Yeah, so I'm picking up speed and yeah and and I think every year of minutes are as you've done that at the end of the season. So I don't know whether it's my mind's mind's say we should have throughout the whole year, but I don't think you can actually necessarily have it for the whole year. Yeah, I'm sure of some. Yeah, exactly and sometimes you need that and I think the way he builds it up is like now we're getting to our peak because these are the games you need to win. I mean we need to win this weekend to have a chance of being in top four and then it's knockout rugby in it. Is he a guy who sits above or is he on the pitch mature as he leave that up to Joe and die in the likes of? No, he's on the pitch. Yeah, he's on the pitch and he'll chat to he probably chat to more of the senior players on the pitch and then obviously the coaches if he wants to get messages across, but because I'm at the back quite a lot, 15 I speak to him in a session if I ask whether we need to if we need anything more. It's really obviously you said you see the game very similar to him. Have you got interest in coaching? No, no, not not not as a Vietnam. Not as a Vietnam. But I don't think so. I don't really watch rugby that much. Welcome to the good band. No, but like I don't know how a lot of people would be like, oh, the game's on need to get back at three o'clock to watch it all and yesterday off I'm like, I'm not doing that. Like I'll watch what I need to watch my own time. Yeah, but I'm very much like on the in training. I analyze myself straight away and I feel like that's a better way of doing it in person, but it's just the way I see the game. So are you involved now with the club? I mean, obviously you're rehabbing. I imagine a lot, but are you in yeah, I mean, I'm in strategy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm feeding in. Yeah. And are you enjoying that or is that no, yeah, I've always enjoyed that to be fair. And I think I didn't really have I wasn't really like a senior player at was until sort of right at the end, if you know what I mean, like, before you jump ship and it all fell apart. Yes. But it wasn't really like that then there was a lot more coat the coach is kind of told us what to do. Or a tutorial one. Yeah, whereas the one I went into England and then Eddie said you're going to be in the leadership repos. Really? Like, okay, far. What did he see to give you that role? I think it was more the position I was playing as a 15 and yeah, and I think the way we wanted to move the ball, but also kick at the right times that kind of thing. I think he just wanted me to be on the same page. Yeah, I just had a really good relationship though. And so I think he just wanted to try and make sure that we were on the same page. Should we see the same thing? I don't whether it was always there at Saris or whether it was a byproduct of what England was trying to do, but certainly those, those, look at the guys that keep like Owen, Marrow, Jamie, you know, yourself. Those other guys always taking responsibility for what they're doing, driving standards and sort of owning the role and owning what you have to do and then delivering stuff and delivering to the other guys was something that we did bits at was actually towards the end didn't we? But actually, it was much more like they would settle the going plan. You felt that Owen, when he talked, had had a real influence about what we were going to do and what we were going to play and how we were going to do it and what you wanted to see defensively and those kind of stuff. So you can see it kind of, I wonder if we start chicken the egg, which one came first, but they always seem to be a side sounders that have that ability that players feel like they own it as much as the coaches, but the coaches give a clear framework and this is what we want to do. But within that, you can help the side what's going to go on. I think that's why they're probably obsessed. I think that's one of the arts of coaching. You've got to remember, you're not playing these guys who are out there playing. They've got to have beaten otherwise if you play away that you're not really bought into, it doesn't work. Just a word on this weekend, there's a great history between you two. It's fabulously set up. It's teed up perfectly. Does the week write itself or is it about the emotional? I think it's, I mean, if you don't get up for this game, there's not many games you can get up for really, but we kind of know what we need to do. And I think you can talk about it extra all you want, but actually if in that game, what you don't want to do is go in the shell and not do, come out and say if you do lose the game and be like, I wish we did this or stuck to what we've done the last five games. So I think there's it's a hard one to coach in the week, I think, because it's, you might want to change a few bits, but actually is it better just to have the lads with a bit of confidence and they know what they're going to do? So that's when I probably wouldn't want to be a coach. But I think the players will get the lads know what they're doing. They'll get themselves right for the game. Well, I think that's where coaching comes to the fore because obviously you look at this game, it's like, again, it's like a final, but you don't want to walk off and not throw the kitchen sink in it. Or you prefer to go out swimming. It's the hardest thing to do as a coach and go actually just stay true to what we are and go deliver that, have the best crack in it and the cards will set up while the cards are set up. I mean, how do you prepare for something like favourable? So what's not worrying us about it? See him as a threat. Like when I was telling his men you just have to deal with if you stop him. Yeah, I mean, it's always difficult, because you can pick in the primary now there's always these guys like that but obviously he's very dangerous so you would have trained with him with England, yeah, over the mob see yeah is he doing things now where even you're going I mean you pay for the weekend and yeah I mean he's you can see how powerful he is yeah and it's that is that the usp of him is the power of it or is it the I think speed of it I think the power and pace he's got he's got both so yeah I think that's if you give that to anyone they're going to be dangerous and he's got that pill as well yeah he gets he's got really strong legs and he's stocky bit like what Simbad was you think you've actually got him down yeah and if he gets his foot planted again he can't just push himself out of it it is interesting when you watch players like you can almost spot this kid who's going to be hard to tackle because he's got wide stride length low centre gravity big ass big leg really difficult to put down you very rarely get anyone that looks like they can't bounce people it's really interesting when actually tall a short stride easy to change that's what I'm big you are but it's that central gravity that power that just bounces people it's pretty pretty horrific and does the history pleb piece at all I mean do you do you watch clips of Slade's kicks of the corner from a few years ago now or is that just actually irrelevant and it's about I'd say that's probably irrelevant now it's just for the fact I think yeah I think especially it's a series has changed over the last probably since we came back back into the premiership really yeah is in the sort of yeah with things legal yeah yeah but like you know I mean like I think the room is on a million quinise in the lady at Saras and that's it yeah yeah she's no she did a good job but she's she's had a problem either the crash of Saras and a million brilliant days on 30 but I feel like rugby has changed like even at what we had like currently Bill willy-de-ruh Charles Piazza they just don't they're not in the premise yet anymore yeah and and you can say like well Saras had sort of Jack Berger and all these guys Skull Berger and Brits and John Smith yeah but these guys I don't think you don't get as many of them if any night now probably it could tell it's probably the only one that's yeah Ike Tehrer Hubert yeah brussel yeah but he's kind of yeah yeah yeah I'd say that but you these are the guys that I think you from like some hemisphere yeah yeah like the big names yeah and what's always signed one of them didn't they so we always were around kind of that whereas that doesn't exist anymore so I think Saras has changed from and I think all clubs have but they we've changed probably more because they those guys have left they've all left we've kind of started a little bit again and now we've got I could I could call group of sort of 35 to 30 year olds and then we've probably got a lot of 18 to 22 23 year olds was that many in between was that big shift where because obviously you had that year where Billy and Maca went plus then Fas when was that sort of the sort of a rebuild obviously oh it's come back but yeah it definitely was because even like we had Duncan Taylor retired that year as well so there's a lot of guys who would play pretty much every week out of your side and big and quite big characters that Maca is a big character Billy is a big character Fas massive so you'd have those guys and it wasn't I think we probably we might have went about it the wrong way at the start I think we're trying to just sort of start again and and be like right let's see I actually did that whole preseason I think all the one after and it was like a new group and I remember that going in and thinking I'm so much older than everyone here but I think we probably should have talked about it a little bit more than we did yeah and I think we have we have done since then and we understand now Owens back and stuff it kind of take care of itself a little bit but we still got that core group now that we've kind of come together a little bit more to try and push the team forward someone to the knowing when he first came back that he sort of being much calmer and quieter to start with like he's feeling out and then he's just switched back into normal but I think I think with Owens it's like he a lot of people said a lot of people would be like oh he's harder me today I'm like well what do you he's what do you expect yeah like if you want to win really bot 9 and he's like one of the best tens in the world then you we understand what we need to do and if you don't do it then he will get into a little bit and he trains his own stand yeah I'd be the same as someone else if I did tell them and they didn't do it it's just he probably comes with a bit more and more and more and we would all do it like Marrow do it Jamie would do it like if you don't do it you get told and I think that's just rugby and I think yeah and I feel like that was easier to do back in the day yeah but that's missing now from society in general and and way people do you to feedback to people like we did a question sport road show with Matt Dawson I was reminding him his first meeting with Sean Edwards when he when he kept saying to Mrs. Matt Dawson I think just for one of our cut we're after a while ago kept kicking the ball out of box kick the was never kicked the ball out they wanted to put it in the field trust the fitness and and Sean Edwards like first video stops it it's like fucking Matt Dawson what's the fucking role there what's the role we don't kick out box kicks next video clip kicks out box kick next one goes for Sean was fucking surprise fucking surprise Matt Dawson kicks ball out fucking boots of chair at the doors it's like it's like it's like well got we never see anything like it and it's kind of that you would know you do that as well and you can play his feedback and stuff you can't you know if they get dressed down they're all much more sensitive and like people someone like it somebody who don't like he was Joey Browne on his been absolutely brilliant he was never the best at taking feedback sometimes he but he'd bite back I was never in the back so you didn't have to deal with it but you know he hit with him though for example he's coming from a good play he's so competitive that he's like he's almost angry himself but he did make the mistake so he's like I mean rather than other people that take it and they don't actually believe what you're saying or who told the best strips off you Eddie give you a bit uh Eddie get Eddie I think Eddie was really good with me um I used to get the old text message from him which is funny it's just like a three o'clock in the morning saying make more line breaks I'm like I am trying to make line breaks um just not making as many maybe want me to but um but I think the best Eddie was one of the best coaches I had because some while I was when I was trying to get in the team I was like doing way too much like I need to I need to I need to I need to show him a good of that and he just sat me down as like stop thinking and I was like well I didn't I didn't really understand it at the time and he said just do whatever the first thing comes he had to do it and it'll probably be right and to you know it's I've done that ever since really yeah because I think the more you think about oh god I can't do that oh I need uh whereas if you are not going to tackle that guy I'm just going to tackle I'm just gonna just do it but so so coaching in this kind of I think a little bit as well you it's where you go you've got your point of difference we talk about it what you're good at and then managing the other bits that you're not so good at some of like you turned it lots of things but it's going oh what is the coach on what should I do here instead of just instinctually going right but I'm gonna do that yeah it makes a massive difference and that's why I always admired guys like Billy or or other players who would make mistake or do whatever but just double down carry boom don't worry about it go again carry boom and it would and they really flourish you know you would you say he was the best I know what I can't even think Billy wasn't good at but something that you can manage the deficiency play to your talents play to strength don't try to be the all-round player which we tried to do do what you can do best really yeah um who did who did tell the best trip of you you got an answer I know um I remember I've just got one in my mind it was Tim pain I remember we oh I've got one about you actually as well but I'll say this one first annoyingly on his mic comes to the fore gone let's do Tim pain first um but we were it was like one of my first sessions with uh was and I was just in the non 23 team and um I saw a painter in that I just basically ran round him and in the next breakdown you just square punch me in the face and he said don't you ever do that again I was like no I always been I'm never here I was like yeah no I was where the and then dream was school uniform and shorts you got a lot of big times you got a lot of a club too there's a lot of things like who said it? and then we trained during the training against England on the 20s the under 20s did um get off with sports park oh fuck yeah long time yeah I mean this wasn't I don't think it was actually you but I remember that our team was pretty pretty good isn't it 40 yeah 40 fads yeah me and then what's the idea oh he's always no it's cool you know he's got we people talking about teams we got 16 there was me we start over like five stars we actually smashed it we're 16 me Jamie George me my shadow yeah the real team fads me 40 we had our team was like we got to the final and we paid that year we paid the all backs in the final and their team was like way better than ours than we had a good team yeah yeah but I remember we did like some like like back stuff I don't know who's on the wing for you guys I think I remember we did like backs were you in that yeah I think so yeah we did like backs on back stuff and I remember like running around someone I just got absolutely like scrapped and like almost like one of those ones that have been a quaint like I'm actually there that day but I don't think it would be a quaint actually it's probably would have been actually really yeah yeah yeah actually would definitely yeah we were like we were just like trying to beat they're like try and beat him like just try and then obviously you boys are like you know what it's like you training at 20s that you can only read it so lose lose situation yeah yeah yeah yeah the only way to get over it is if is if you work really hard but we still smash you with all those out there yeah yeah but that was it that was it was quite a funny day you want to be like no I'm not right yeah I do like that but that's the ultimate session where you're going in as as a probably as a pro and you go you'll be fine these boys will be all right and then you're going you go fucking hell let's carve these guys yeah you're quite pension as well like you you would be one like not when you're that age but when you got older you'd be like okay something happens and you're just like later but but but someone do say yeah because far it like late little after the late cancer - Late counter-racks. - You got the J.C. - He's got that pitch, and it's like, fuck you. And then it'll be like, late shot, hit me. - No, yeah, yeah. - Not looking for a round counter-rack. - That's if I'm really pissed off. - What makes you really pissed off? - Just ask. - Yeah, ask that to me. - Right with me. - Launchers are the same. - You're on the stand, it's coming. - It's coming. - It's coming. - Play a B who tried to run that ball, but he was like, we're really tired on a Monday. And we said it, launchers, guy stepped over on launchers, and then, right, that's it. - He was like, I'm just fucking leveled in. - Leveled in, like this. - That always happens, isn't it? - Yeah, it always happens. - But I think it's because it was a academy player, B, and we did every budget, they just left it. - It's put him out by the bids, he's still there. - It's a really, you got a stretch of it. - On a stretch of it. - Couldn't afford a stretch. - Yeah. - It was something you had to do. - It was all that, yeah. - Toast made for it, it was quite. - Toast just right. - That's where levels just go. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That always happens. - I do remember that session, yeah. It was like, got a bit of a. - It just, it late in the season is always happening. - But also that generally is, it's like grumpy, people like the Tim Payne kind of guys, like, "Roof, fuck off, just get your pubs." I always love paying, maybe. But when he called me out on to get after Premature Fives, I could come in out and the person was like, "No, it's fuck off in, fuck down." I was like, "I've got a big day, I've got a big butt, big butt, big butt, big butt, big butt, big butt." - Fucking fuck off, don't bother turning it out. - I was like, "Sorry, I don't understand." - I tasted the RPA Wars. I tasted the RPA Wars one year, 'cause he used to be like, "It was on Sky, and he hit me so hard in the ballers." Before I started, he was like, "Pain or pain?" And I, from memory, I think I cried. And he spent the rest of the nights of walking up and sort of, "You alright?" "You alright?" "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no." - No. Can we go from the old school to the new school? And you were talking about that, obviously, Sarah's, you got a great collection of being there, done it, like yourself. Noah Calori, "Discuss." - He's pretty good, isn't he? - I think alright. - 18 tries this season. - Is it a night game? - I know. (laughing) - It's a normality for the prem breaks we play of the year. - I'm how good? - Yeah, he's like his, like super strength is one of the best I've seen, so. - Which is hang time, air early, yeah. - I remember we did this, we got a kicking coach called Dan Vickers and he came in and he, this guy's like 18, he's just first preseason, he's born in 2006, which hurt me a little bit. - It's really uncountable. - And we're doing like back three, like just catching, and he keeps catching the ball above his head. And like, Dv's like, wow, I think he should be like, no, I'll just catch it from there. And to be fair, he just keeps doing it. So, and but like 18 to be like that. 'Cause if I was 18 and I'll be like, the coach told me to be like, yeah, I'm gonna catch it like normally. Well, he's just so confident that he will get it, that he just catches it. - I, if he comes far more of a competition, if he catches it down here, anyway. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - No, it does, yeah. - But I think I, I had the saw, we were all ready to interview with him, in which he got a bit of a spray from Owen, quite early in the season. Which is this, maybe I'm not making that up. - No, no, no, no, no. - I think he said that he realized, 'cause he's been out, is it Amp Till he's been playing for? - He's been out. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And he came in and I think was obviously loving life being, and then suddenly realized what the level is that he's got to operate. - Have you noticed a step back? - No, I think the biggest thing that this year for him has been, like how important training is, because I think when you're young, you get looked after way more now, and you probably get told, oh, 'cause he was training with us, and then training in the evening with Amp Till, but like when we were young, loads of lads were doing that, and just going on with it. - Burn out and play the world for everything of the past. - The thing is, I'd say it's probably harder now, 'cause the game's probably more physical, training's harder, all this kind of stuff. But I think he understands now how important every single session is, because you're so young, that you've only got so certain amount of games in a year, so you need to treat like a Tuesday, which is the big day as a game, and get what you need to out of it. I think from his first training session with us to now, I think he's understanding how important that is, and I think that's only gonna help him in the long run and developing quicker as well. - I'm gonna see you remember, young period of time when you come into sporting teams, and I was like, how every year you think you got it cracked until you realize you don't, and you look back and go, oh wow, if I'd done a bit more of that. All you either cotton on quite quickly, and we all know players that never cotton on other players, it takes a bit of time, and then actually sometimes that acceleration of getting into an England squad, and then suddenly seeing what the standards are, could make a break here, because sometimes we've seen talent go into the squad, and they can't deal with the pressure, can't deal with the feedback, can't deal with the way the standards are, and they fall back and they never make it. It's really interesting in what, you know, the different demands. I'm really excited, because all the stuff I see online, he looks like an absolute freak in the way. - Good way. - Do you spend a lot of time, are you like a mentor to him, or does he have a mentor? Do you do stuff like that, so? - Yeah, we do quite a lot of back-free stuff together. But more when he first came in, I think, it's always like his attack inside the game is going to be his attack inside the game, like getting quicks back, like catching high balls, and like beating people, like he's got that. It's more backfield defensively, that's those are the things that you learn, probably that's the biggest jump, I'd say from like academy level to the first team. - Yeah, like because you can run our attack shape, and you can drop an academy kid in a session where it's saying a attack session, they won't look out of place, because really if they get the ball, they can just run if they want to. - Yeah. - Whereas if you drop them into defensive system where everyone needs to be on the same page, if I'm calling him back to be on like a half because they're gonna kick that way, all that kind of thing, he needs to be able to do that. I think from where he first came in, he's realized that, and he's understood what he needs to do now, and he's like, he's going from straight, as I was saying about how important training is, because for him, he wouldn't have run like a backfield before. - Yeah. - You're not thinking that at the school level, or you're not thinking, oh, I've got a space in the backfield there, no one's actually gonna exploit it. - Where is that? - Premature level, it's gonna be exploited. - Did you find a lot of times that some of the players, because you see a lot of Premature players, talented players come in and out, particularly the back three, who have major hype, who have tear up treats, scoring tries, but then seem to disappear at England level. And I've always said it's because you've found an efficiency, because they can't run a back three. They can't necessarily get the defense right. They don't understand how to read the kicks. They're not that great under a high ball. So they look a million dollars to the ball in hand, but they're a real liability, which doesn't necessarily materialize straight away, but over time, you start seeing lots of times in games. They're not where they're supposed to be. They're putting more pressure on, they're not quite getting the defense right. Would you say that something that happens quite a lot? - Yeah, I'd say so, when you, if you're just chucked in, it's more kind of like the rawer players are kind of like that. But I think the best thing for Noah now is actually getting picked in those squads recently. - Would you play him this summer? Would you just embed him in the. - I'll just get him in training. - Just get him in training? - Yeah, I think, because you know he's gonna train hard, you know he's gonna train well. Like, put selection aside, like you won't. He's got something that not many other people have got. So if we can, if we can nurture that as much as possible, but as I said, he needs to train as much as possible and play games as much as possible. And that's what I quite liked about Mishia. He played for us and then got told he was going back to Anthel. And he could have thrown his toys out the prime a little bit because he scored like 20 tries to get out. But that week, smallly wanted to go with this team and that's what we did. So he went back and played for Anthel and I think he scored another about 10 tries. But like, do you know what I mean? He could have easy, he could have easy throwing his toys out the prime a little bit. And I've just scored five tries against sale twice or whatever. So it's for that, that shows me that he wants to play as much as possible and get better and do that. And if we talk about current players, character, and we use the Pollock factor, how much Pollock has he got in him? - The Pollock Armeter. - Yeah. - But usually the Pollock is not a big deal for my soul. - Sure, it's nice, not like it. - Okay, so he's got his own unique. - But like, he, he, he, - Has he got a bit about him? - Yeah, he has got a bit about him, yeah. I think he's coming more and more out of his shell as well. I think next year. - I think, yeah. - I think. - But I think he's, he's obviously, he's living with the Academy lands at the moment. Like in the Academy, there's about 12 of them in there. I don't know. - Really? - Yeah. - Some cobbles. - How sort of hell? - How sort of hell? - Yeah, yeah. - How's the Manchester's occupancy? - Not one dumb dishwasher skids all the time. - I don't think they ever wash the sheets. - One towel. - Yeah. - She's like, yeah. - She's you crack with a hammer. - What? - Just to smell it. - Just smell it. - Like, your dad is a bus. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Palus is fearless. (laughs) (laughs) - Thank you. - And why do Saris win, that's Handy Park? - Physically, we have to smash him really. And I think our, and Break Down, I know it's really boring, but if we do get our Break Down right, then our attack is firing at the moment, so we might get some space and get some ball in the right areas. So I think all kind of games come down to that these days. I think when we struggle is when we're not there on the other Break Down, or physically we're giving them a couple yards in defense, or even attack, we're not carrying as hard as we could. We can do. I think if we do the things we've been doing, I think they come with a bit more line speed, so they might shut us down a couple of times, but you've got to keep going to bang the door down otherwise, they'll just be on top of us. - Is this Saris team, and you've been parlors in very, very good Saris teams, but is this Saris team good enough to win the premp from here? - Yeah, definitely. - We haven't reached our potential this year at all. So there's a lot more. - They haven't needed to until now. - No, what we wanted to, it's just like, I think form and injuries and just stuff like in and out, it's, we just haven't been where we kind of want to be, which is frustrating, but now it seems to have gone to a point where we've kind of clicked a little bit. And I said it yesterday, I was doing it into you, and I just said, like they were asking kind of a similar question. was like, well, we kind of, this year, we kind of won games, we shouldn't have won. Lost games, we should have won. And we played the last sort of three or four games before we started winning again. We played against basically the top four. So, and we were, we should have probably won one or two of those games. So when you look at it like that, it's kind of, it gives you a full sense of where we are. When you win a game and you don't play well. And then the next week you like, you lose and you should have won. It's quite hard to keep the-- So, for Australia, we did being coached. No, yeah, no, yeah. Understanding why you might want to win. And we kind of knew why. We probably didn't put an 80-minute form into it. We were losing sort of last 10 minutes of games. We were considering too many points and that kind of stuff. But I think now, I think we've, we're going after something. And I think, as I said, Saris, we always peak at hopefully the right time. So hopefully we put another good form. We will watch with great interest this weekend, all live on TNT Sports. Now, while we're on the subject of the prema, quick time out. Because, tins, we have a shout out that we need to do to the fundraising team for the great Lewis Moodyers. Yeah, I did promise I would do this a few of the minch lads who are taking on an epic walk from Leicester to Bath in time for the game this weekend. Two clubs, 108 miles, 40 hours. They're starting on Thursday to reach the wreck in time for kickoff. That's Matt, Raffer, Rich and Hugh. All very proud tweed, whereas at Mention Hempton. They get my vote. Yeah, so they're not too sore, they're not too blistered. Too much rubbing when they get there. But yeah, so best of luck. Good luck to the lads. And they're obviously raising money for M&D and for Lewis and for the My Name's Doddy Foundation and the M&D Association. Fantastic causes. Good luck. Matt, Raffer, Rich and Hugh, we hope the walk is fun, painless and you get the job done. And if you would like to donate, we are going to stick the fundraising link for the Chaps in our episode. It's going to be really hard for Hugh because he's technically full fun, so it's a lot of steps. That's a lot of steps. Good luck to you, Hugh. I want to ask you about England. I want to ask you about the Lions as well. So can we just start, first of all, with the Red Rose? It's been a really frustrating 12 months, 18 months for you. Some pop marks have unbelievable. I cannot remember the last time I leapt off the seat and quite the way I did when you were in France last year. Where are you at with England now? Obviously, are you one of these players that you feel like you can keep playing till you're 36, 37, joining sex and style? Is the body beginning to creak a bit? It's a lot going on. What are you at with England? I genuinely feel great. I don't feel any different than I have done for the last 10 years. Lucky you. Enjoy it while it lasts. You get stiff and sore and stuff, but as soon as I train, I'm completely fine. I'm on to the next thing. Obviously, I want to pay for England, so whatever that role is, I'll do it. Do you know, have you now got to that point where you're like, because you wanted to be an outside centre wasn't it? That's where you've loved to play. But you've done wing fallback, outside, we did an overweigh basically. Do you now got to point your career where you're like, I just don't care, it's not that I'm involved. Yeah, when I was young, I always wanted to play outside centre. That's still the case. Yeah, I would love to play outside centre, but I just never. I just never played outside. I do get thrown in there a couple of times here and there, but yeah, I don't, because actually when the last line-store went as a centre, which surprised me, because I also hadn't played centre really at all for a couple of years, in and out like a game or two here or there. But yeah, I just, I don't feel, I feel brilliant, like I feel good, but I always think it's quite mental when, apart from his paper mache, yeah, apart from my arm, yeah. Why'd you love 13 more than 15 or wing? I feel like you're in the game a lot more. I do think though, it's different internationally than it is. Yeah, I agree. For, like, Premiership. In what way? I would love to play in the Premiership of 13, but I probably actually would like, first to play England of 15. Yeah, okay. Because I feel like it becomes, basically, it's a pivot moment or, you're basically, they're just tucked in behind for a pass or the pivot guy around the front, no? Yeah, it frustrates me, played 13. Because you have to hit quite a lot of ratedowns. I don't know what to say, I don't know what a captain right is. I can't do it. No, but you know this, but I think it's 13 in Premiership level, you can kind of get away with, like, not going to that. Whereas it's like, it's very set roles, pretty much a centre's in the middle of the pitch, where I like to go roaming as much as possible. That's why I always say that it's hard to translate it to England and it is an extra. He can change the game at extra, but it's very rare that he gets those moments at England because he becomes that guy who just has to stand in the middle of the field and do things. How did you find a wing? That was something, that was something. Yeah, I didn't like the wing. Like, I don't, yeah. Why not? I mean, I didn't really like it. I did a little set of traps. Yeah, when I first started playing that, I was like, I don't, I felt like I couldn't do what I needed to do. Right. But the way that Eddie told me, like, I can only really play wing, like England, he was like, do you want to pound the wing? I was like, yeah, yeah, of course. But I've never really done it before. I've done it like bits and bobs at wass, like, when there's been like an injury or something, you just go to the wing, whatever in the game. But, yeah, he picked me for that. I think it was Argentina game. I'm the wing. I actually got a red card. Yes, you do. I remember that. Yeah. Can you play that game? Yeah. Might I tell them I do. Yeah. I can't remember. Yeah. I've never really grew to know what I could do. And I think Eddie allowed me to do what I wanted. So you go looking for it because we were always to work wingers. We love the wingers that come off their line and actually go and find it and do round breakdowns and stuff. Yeah. Because there are two roles. Go get your hands on the ball. Yeah. But make sure if anyone makes the round breakdown your wing, you have to be back on their way to cut. See, that's also a difficult thing. There's a really difficult thing. Yeah. And it's like, if a ten looks and you're not there, you get an absolute ball. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just like to connect with ten and just roam as much as possible. So, yeah. Wherever that is. That's like, yeah. That's like, yeah. And when I started playing, I was like, I have to stay in this area. Yeah. And then I was like, but like, that's kind of what it was. You might have run up and down straight. Yeah. You'd never tell if you could run up. That's five minutes. It was ten years ago. Yeah. That's how it's changed a little bit. But fall back now, you'd prefer that international. Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like you can, I just like to be that second distributor and like, and try and put boys in space. I think that's my major what I want to do. Yeah. Like, I do say one of school tries, but I'd rather set up a try. But you do love school tries. Yeah, I do, yeah. But do you do you feel, because I remember when we were playing at Was, a lot of people talk about you going to fall back because of how devastating you were outside centre, that ability to break on the outside, your pace, how difficult you were to tackle. The fall back would give you the opportunity to run more. Yeah. The game sort of gone from it was running less to now, you probably get a bit more opportunity to run. Yeah. Do you find that? Yeah, I think that now you get, especially with the new rules, like, high ball rules, you get a lot more unstructured stuff. Fine. And obviously a lot of people are doing the tactic of the wingers catching everything. So on the way back now. So it actually frees out the fall back even more. Which is great because then you get unstructured straight away. Yeah. And that's what you want as a fall back, really. Do you hear from Steve a bit, do you have comms, Lee Blackhead? Yeah, I mean Lee was, you were, yeah, lovely, yeah. Yeah, Lee. Right Lee. He was a binbag, yeah. So that leads him to the whole leg. Why the worm? Oh, he looks earthy. Oh, he looks earthy. And he also looks like, and he was used to wear this track. This is your current coach. But that's your career in his hands. Well, yeah. Because he was shiny bin like. He used to wear. He was wearing out of shape. He looked like a worm would eat in another worm. Right, right, right. He was like, "I mean, right, right, right, right, right now." When Lee came in, he pulled me aside and said, "You can't be a call me a worm." Yeah, that's very funny. Yeah. We don't tell anyone. We'll keep that one. No, because I don't know. And I remember he did a meeting. I mean, is that anything? Yeah, just one thing, one. And he looked at me and he was like, "Yeah, he's got. " No, he's going to. I hope you've enjoyed during your career. No, he can't. He can't remain in the course. No, he can't. No, he's a great guy. No, great coach. He is a great man. Yeah, and what are they asking for you at this point, et cetera, et cetera? Now it's not much just try and get myself right. But when you're playing, you have conversations with Steve. More probably with Lee than Steve, but. For us. But just what you need from you and what you're seeing and how you think you're going and that kind of stuff. Yeah. And because you know when you've played well, you know when you've played badly. You know when what you need to do if you want to be starting for Batfaringland, starting Wingfringland, whatever. Yeah. And he's just making sure that you're working on those things. The other thing I want to ask you about is the Siege Gun Boot, which has had its moments. And I'm thinking. He's a better name than that. Witgift. I'm thinking Lions the Test. And I'm just thinking that. Did you knock out an absolute monster in South Africa? Yeah. Yeah, you did. Was that. Was that Elvis? Yeah, Elvis. Not you don't hoax my straight away. Well, this one here. No, it's OK. This one here. When did you first realise you had a big berth of a boot? I don't really. Small piece, big boot. I don't get it in the way. Quality analysis. Little nuts as well as legs from going together. It was perfect, isn't it? Yeah. Is it a biome. biomechanical thing? I honestly don't know. I wouldn't copy what I do for kicking. Well, it works. I know, yeah, but I don't really follow through that much. And like. I don't really practice that much, right? So you just. You just get it out of work. It's like that. I remember trying to just go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Throw the cone, put the cone down, boot it over the thing. I just weren't seeing kick for weeks. But it's like. There was a bit of a loss where they're like, "You're gonna kick this year, 'cause we had, I think Nicky Robinson was injured quite a lot. I ended up kicking loads, so I did loads and loads and loads of kicking that year. But then my drawings were like shots after it, for that whole season, that after that. That was 'cause you were kicking on a muddy, farmer's field, you've been tripping out. It's quite how much, true. It's still a livestock on top of it. But I think just, I don't know why, I don't necessarily know why I can kick it quite far, but it's kind of just. Just cancel, yeah. Yeah. We obviously partnered with Continental Tarts, who had sponsored the Continental Tarts School's Cup Final. And this is possibly a tricky question, 'cause you've still got many chapters to write. But when you look at all the things you've achieved in the game, how happy were your school boy days? Yeah, I think that we, the first year we won it, and when I was in, in, lower sixth or whatever you call it these days, that we were kind of destined to win that year, as in, our team is pretty good, and we were smashing everyone. 'Cause me, the team, the team. Yeah, 16th and 16th. Me, Sid Rianny, Colin Yard. Colin Yard, me. Yeah. No, yeah, we had a good team. It was, Sips wasn't it? Was it not Sips? No, no, I'm William. Sips is like your age. But yeah, that year, it just all sort of came together and we ended up winning basically every game, and we won the final by, I don't know, 38 points to 10 or something. And then school. Yeah, that's what you did. I think that's a lot of things. I think so, yeah. Don't pretend you don't know now. You know, yeah. Yeah, you did your wheels. I think you did school. That was, that was, that footage from the final after, so the next year. Oh, okay, I'm sorry, probably. Which is, that's all I get onto that, 'cause that's actually the one I remember more. Because that was actually, do you know what, your mates? Yeah, that's all your mates do. Yeah, you play a year up. Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of things. Whereas that team is like, the lads you've come through from like 13-14 with and played rugby with. Yeah. And we shouldn't have won, but we'd somehow. I remember, he would love me telling this story, there's a guy I called George Harding, who, like, he was kind of in the second team. No, no, no, no, he was just like one of our mates a week. Yeah. And he got called in, we played Plymouth the way, and it was Slady's team, so Slady was playing for them. And it was just a quarter final, so obviously lost, we're done. And we needed like a try in the last minute. And he usually is like a second team player. Like, he was good, he was quick, and like, he's a bit of a footpler. And he scored probably the best try. I've seen it. Really? Yeah. It was unreal, like, ran base of the whole length of it, stepping on everyone, scored on the post we won. And that was-- Got dropped and was never seen again. I don't think he started the final, no. But for him to score that, as one of-- That's the final game. --as one of your mates, yeah. And it's like, that's pretty-- so that's why it's probably more memorable. And then, like, we won the final. We won the final quite easily in the end, but we should probably shouldn't have been in that situation. Yeah. It was-- George Harding. Yeah, well done, George. Well done, George. He's certainly-- What was doing that? He's a graphic designer. [LAUGHTER] Good one of that. I'll be-- He's dining out on that story. And he will-- And he will-- He will. And he will-- AI-- AI, he will definitely download this clip of Blake's old friends. And then Lions. Not many have done three tours. Do you do memorabilia? Have you got shirts on walls? Where does the Lions-- No, it-- I don't-- I don't. Yeah, I might do when I retire. But-- Yeah, like Lions, I love the Lions. So that was like a perfect for player. You are like really personable, really talented. Get on with everyone. Love playing the ball. And you're amazing. At first the time I was playing. First the time I'll play. Do you want good, loud works hard? Like you made for it. And I just-- The one thing with the Lions is I've never thought I was-- I was ever had a chance of going on. When-- do you know the answer you don't find out until the actual-- Like when it's on the TV? And I remember the first one with-- You were at what's the time, weren't you? Yeah. Yeah. And you went on there. No, no. 2017, I called up late. I didn't get out of here. Yeah, yeah. And that was the first one. I was in the toilet. Came out, you're not in a site, Christ. But look, I remember-- I didn't know it was a toilet. I remember watching it with Joe with launches, because we were like, I'll watch it. But I literally didn't think I was going. And then they started with the backs. And then I was like second name out. I was like, I was like, do you just say my name? And then it was the same because the next year was the year we were in the championship. So I was like, well, I'm definitely OK. I'm just really against Don Kaster away. And then they're going to put me on the playing to play South Good. And then I've been up going on that one. And then I don't know. Just what year I had with England, I didn't think I was going to be not eligible, but I didn't put my hand in the ring that many times that year. So I thought I'd struggle to get on that tour as well. But I did not get on. Doing what she's amazing. Are you a big fan of all the cameras in your home when they collided in the mobile? Definitely not. No. Do you have cameras in your home? No, no, no. Can I ask you about 2017? Because there were two-- We mentioned the penalty kick in the third test. What do you think about from the warm-up I'd hit one from there? So I kind of knew that I had the length. Yeah. And it was-- because in that on that tour, against the Highlanders, I don't remember this. It was Highlanders. Yeah. You played well in that one. And there was a kick from my 55 meters out. And I said, I'll go for the basic similar place. And then the ref moved about three meters. And I missed by probably a meter. But I'd already said for the kick. So the team was only saying, oh, you can't not kick it now. I was like, well, you've just moved it back. It's 58 meters. I was like, that's quite a big kick. And I probably missed it by a meter like one under the bar. But I felt like that was-- I needed to kick that because it's not half the reason I was on the tour because it wasn't. But it was also a big part of why I was on the tour as well. But the other thing is you were involved in. I think probably the greatest try of the Lions' professional era. Sean at Bryan. I think Miles said, Elliot, Daily, show those wheels. No, that was-- Oh, yeah, it was. It was a Sean at Bryan. Yeah, it was a good try. Because obviously, you just said you were amazed to go on the tour. And then to get given a test shirt. But even with that game, that was the first test. And I played on the Wednesday night with-- we thought the mix finished. So we all thought we weren't in the squad. So we thought I'd choose that one, wasn't it? Yeah. And we moved on Wednesday. And we all had a few beers that I didn't mix with. It's like a kind of end of our tour type thing. But then we went to bed, got up in the morning, and then Gats' names team. And me, I think me and Liam Williams got me. Yes. And then I was like right up there in the old black suns Saturday, and that was kind of it. But I remember when Liam Williams steps-- I don't know who it was. I was like, crew. And I was like, when he started running, I was like, oh god, here we go. I think I was straight thinking I was like, yes. Give it to me. I think it was Kieran Reed and then-- Yeah. But you know what, his mind's sort of like-- I've always been a team like team over years about it. It's kind of just that just go with it, just completely to shrug, just go with it. Like nothing really ever fades. It's just excitement for life. I'll have a go. I'll do it. Don't worry about it. We'll have fun. We OK. Don't worry. Just just get on, just do it. God the world needs a few more of those. Will you come and do this again? Yeah. It's been really, really good fun having you on. The question I want to ask you-- are there bits of your career that you are particularly proud of, which others might not kind of-- are there days where you have played games for England, or some Sarasons lines, where you're like, those are the bits that mean the most to me, outside of what the obvious headlines might be? Would you not really look at your career like that? You still got a lot to get on with. I don't probably look back that much. As Hass says, my mind says very much of-- all right, Pena, so you can ask this go. Let's go after that. But I think that's what almost keeps me where I am. As in the here and now, and like, are this important this weekend is? And also, it helps me in games because actually, when stuff goes wrong in a game, you don't want to dwell on it. You need to get on to the next thing. And you said, Billy, that goes for the next thing, and that's how I think. But I think there are games for England. And I think I'll look back on the lines as when I retire as a massive thing. And because it's every four years, it's not every week in week out. And that's what I think. But I'd say more I look at certain games that we might not have won, which you probably won't think. But I feel like I've played as well as I could have done. And that's probably the games I remember, which is weird, because everyone members winning, but no necessarily members losing. But I'd say the semi-final-- Is that what you're supposed to give? It's their fault. No, no. I think it's sort of like-- I gave it-- That's what I want from a game. I gave everything. And we-- Was this semi-final 2019? No, 2023. We lost it, so I think. But I feel like everybody that they played-- No, yeah. --as well as they could do. Because we were given no hope to beat them. And we should have beaten them really in the end. But I think you can come off of that game and be really disappointed that you haven't gotten in the final. But actually, you look back on anything. Everyone actually turned up that day. And that's the one that you kind of-- How much he left it all out there? Yeah, yeah. How much heat everyone had been given up, how many of them had been in the open, the bit stories, and how everyone was damning it. And obviously, changed coaches. Yeah, yeah. Makes it all a bit more-- Obviously, and just this is-- I suppose the England fans out there, it's been quite a tough watch. Whoever the Six Nations has been locked, written, and a lot said about it already. But from someone who's inside the camp, is there-- I was going to say, is there less panic? But is there still a belief that come next year, first of October's when the rugby world cup starts? This squad, this team, this collection-- actually, I've got what it takes. Will you be better for going through what they've gone through? Yeah, I think this is definitely one of the best scots I've ever been apart from. Really? For talent-wise, there's no-- there's no guys that young who have been-- we brought through that I've been a part of that have been that good, that young. And there's that a crop of them that are quite similar age group, and a crop of them that played together as well, which I think is key as well. Which of those guys are you most excited about? Who do you-- - I see, he's gonna. - Well, I think Tommy Freeman is like amazing at rugby. But when he first came into England camp, it was like he was a rabbit and a headlapse, but this is what you were saying, and but now with him with the Northampton guys that come into camp, they obviously played together, but Tommy's gone like that over the last two seasons. He's been probably one of the best players in the premiership, probably one of the best wingers in the world. And you look at guys like that, and you think God, this group's gonna be talented when they all come through at the same time. - That level of maturity experience. - Yeah, that's talent. Yeah, whereas I didn't play my first game for England till I was 24. - Yeah. - Where he's 24 and he's going on. - 30-something to San Alonso. - Yeah, yeah. - So it's like, when we do get to that World Cup or even beyond that, you see what the talent pool from that young age group is gonna be like. - Amazing. - Very positive note on which to finish. - Thank you very much indeed. We are gonna have a quick time out because are you up for taking on the content of Tarscript Strength Challenge? Would you like to have a look at the leaderboard and see who there you would most like to. - We should stipulate this is your weaker hand, 'cause you are left handed. - If that box can't do it. - Oh, you can't do it with your left hand. - Yeah, so we're doing it with your weaker hand. - I don't want it written on there, like Jamie's written on there. - No, that's actually George. - Yeah, it's making excuses. - You're either falling or not. - Yeah, right, right. - Marlon Yard, 65.5. - Jamie George, 63.2. Wrong hand, Elliot Daley, who's holding the rest. - Lovely. - Oh, he's got a beat. - 67.2. - That's right. - 67.2. - Right, you know. - Beat Jamie George. - Beat's as a con. - So we're going for that. - We're going for the robbery. - Andrew Boyd. - Andrew Boyd. - Andrew Lee. - Call is a good tendon. - He's still got that. - Call for calls this way. - That's quite a good one. - Yeah, we're pleased to hear. - He's been his whole, every time we beat, you just got this. - Yeah, so you're in phase all the time. Yeah, that's what you do. - I'm not backing on the secret of the list. - I love him so much, but I keep getting flashbacks of him like with Booth on the hair, like side step and running to rock, big patches. I'm coming out to you, bottle flipping, re-throwing shit, the banging, picking up tape. - I think you've hidden that quite well over the years. - I think you've got to wait with it. - If you're not ready. - I am, if you ask. - You're quite irritated. - Yeah, yeah, very irritated. - Yeah, yeah. - You're right. - But that's what I kind of feed off for annoying people. - Right. - Especially him back there, because he'll bite everything. - I bite him. - I just call him 20%. And he's probably gone a bit less than that now. - What, a bite? - And you said one in five. I used to say one in five things that you said were funny. - Yeah. - And you didn't like that. - Yeah, right. - But I think it's probably right. - I think he's got you quite well boxed up. - I think he has to. - Yeah. - I remember premium tyres don't just boost performance. They give you better safety, control, and stopping power compared to budget tyres. You can learn more on continental tyres at continental-highford-tires.co.uk. Do you want to grab one of those? - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah, I have them. Thank you. - This one's more winning gin, black eyed gin. - £1.50. We pledged to give £1.50 a very bottle of salt to charity. We used to give him £20.000 in Lewis Moody. We've done stuff with four-aid, Matt Henson. It goes very well with the Mediterranean tonic. And I'd enjoy it watching the cricket, if I were you. - Yeah, I would do that. - Slice, slice nice, ice and slice, whatever it is we're going to do. - Well, how are you actually filling all this spare time? - You know, I've got with the prank. - The prank some go on the jet of the shirt. - Yeah, yeah. - Do you know when you're not in training, you can't really prank people. - If you've got to be part of it, to be part of it. - Yeah, we kind of, yeah. - Oh, I was thinking like that. Do you know what I got your shirt? - We used to have to wash our own kit. I know it sounds mental now. But as you used to have to wash our own kit and bring it in, which doesn't sound mental, does it? - No, it was. - But it's like, I don't have a lot of it. - It was like rugby kit and usually it's chucked, but now like in all the way because chucking the bin. - Yeah, but that didn't happen. - Not in the big, it was. - Sorry, in the wash bin. - Yeah, by your own purse. - Where I was washing your own kit, by your own kit. - So you had to bring it in. - By your own grass. - Has to be assigned to me the day before as I was when we were getting. So I was putting his training shirt out and I was putting like a thing and said, please sign it. So all the lads just started signing it. So he runs out and he just got all the lads singing. So that was great work. - It was great work. - Some of it is very good. Very good for that. - I did enjoy that. - Maybe it's from the manual. - Other pranks I've got done by you. - You just, it just pier out nowhere all the time. - Yeah, just pop up. - I remember seeing this. - That was what I was trying to be a YouTuber then. - Oh God, yeah. - Probably. - I was trying my hand in. - Yeah, you were. - Well listen, you've got to come when you retire. How are you going to do? - Work for you. - You're welcome. - You're welcome. - Back at any time. - Yeah, really. - It's a lot of work. - It's kind of more. - How about replace you? - Yeah, it's way better. - Well, I'm in the business anyway. - It's really a whole going. - You can totally work for me. - The great and the rugby. - Yeah, that'll be good. - The good, the boot and the rugby. - Not quite so good. - All right, all right. - Just a bit boring. - I'm not really creative. - Thank you for coming on. Good luck to your boys this weekend. Let's hope it's a humdinger. I'm sure it will be. - It's gross. - The lock-in is available on Apple's Spotify. The usual nonsense for the princely sum of three pounds night down. What did we talk about this week? - Richard made his penis. - Yeah, we started with. - We started with. - We started with. - Is he? - Oh my God. - Really? - Oh yeah. - Terrifying you. - Don't see it. - Don't see it. - It was a holiday with it. - 10 seconds. Haske taken this in another direction. You'll be surprised. Apologies, but we're always very sorry for anything. - We are to our continental. To our continental tyres, sponsors. Let's try that again. Thank you as always to Conte-Tedlet tyres, who the proud sponsors of the Conte-Tedlet tyres schools come driving the next generation from the ground up. We're a platform media production status and facts provided by Russ Petty and everyone in sites. And this episode was produced by Tom Edwards. Enjoy editing that one. All best of us for us to make a game of it. - Bye for now. - You've been listening to The Good. Yay, the bad, and the rugby. - Oof. - With Alex Payne, James Haskell and Mike Tindall. Thanks for listening. - Yeah, I'm very welcome on this. - It's not a big job. - What was she, the art teacher? - She was a clerk. - She's gonna leave it. We're gonna leave it in this. - What was she, she should leave it out. - She never called for you. - She wasn't a respons, she's not a baby. - Yeah, she wouldn't have for you. - She worked your care at my school, but the sports always in a separate establishment to the school itself. So she worked for that company as a gap issue. - That's how they've legally got away with it. - Gap is huge. - Gap is huge. - Pretty much what a legend. - What a legend. (laughing) - What we normally do is we say, before we start recording, we'll chatter away and we'll take out the bits and don't know. I reckon there's gonna be quite a long list of things. Come on.