Ella Mai on Being a Mom & Lover Girl

Y'all, today's guest is a Grammy-winning R&B star who gave us the ultimate cuffing season anthem with boot up and has been making us feel the love ever since. I'm talking about the one and only Ella May. Since hitting the scene, she's only continued to level up from new music to motherhood, all without compromising who she is. Her latest album is called Do You Still Love Me? But let's be real, the answer is yes. So let's get into it with Ella, because baby this is Kiki Palmer. - Yeah. - Ella, Ella, Ella met now, is it May, May? I know everybody, 'cause you know, I know people be butchering now. We don't know what the eye does. That's America, who's where like, what does it do? - No, I think people, some, in some cultures, obviously it is pronounced May. So I can understand why people say that, but yeah, it's May. - What's up, girl? - How are you? - I'm so glad every time that you, I know people, you can still know if he was saying this, but it's, I don't hear your accent when you sing. So when I hear you talk, I'm like, my girl is from London. - Everyone's like, oh, wait, hold on. What's going on here? - Yes, I was asking you about my boy, Daniel Cluia, who's also from South London. - South London. So like, what is South, what's T? Like, what's the energy there? - We definitely give like, main character syndrome, like for sure, with South side of the river. So there's a lot of talent that comes out of South London. So I'm just gonna say. - I think you mean to give somebody's name? I was the Ella, Ella man. - Yes, of course. - Y'all got that fine wrap over there. What's his name? Stormzy? - Oh, Stormzy is from South. - Yeah. - Well, you did the pre-show pull-up, and I'm excited. Again, yet again, guys, I've been having some, like, good hand writing. - No, I was gonna say, please excuse my hand writing on that 'cause I was doing it really quick, and it's really big, and I don't know why I was writing in capitals. - It looked good. - Thank you. - Okay, Zodiac sign already knew this because you lily, I was listening to the album, you know, I'm so very good, by the way. - Thank you. - And you do the whole break now. The Scorpio fees, I just had to put it in there. Very Scorpio of you. - Very Scorpio. - But then you're a double Scorpio. - So it's just sun and your moon, but then your rising gets a cancer. - Yes. - Really love a girl. - Yes. - You call yourself a love a girl, and there's nothing proves it more than this. - Yep, it's very, it's obviously all, both water signs, so very emotional, but like the Scorpio obviously comes off, not emotional at all, but we really are inside. Once you break the wall down, definitely sensitive, and cancers are just sensitive anyway. So there's a lot of emotional, a lot of water in there. - I'm a cancer rising, so trust me, I get it. - Yes, yes. - What are you most grateful for today? - My son and the love I have around me on my journey. Amen, I feel the same way, girl, my son. We're gonna get into the babies, but like, it's too much whipped down. Why they just sold the ones? - It's crazy 'cause I feel like, and I know you said we're gonna get into it, but I just feel like people always say it before you have kids, like, oh, you know, your kids just become your world, and like you just don't really understand it until you have your own, yeah. - No, you don't. - And now old your little boy? - He's one and a half. - One and a half, yeah. Okay, a relationship or a friendship non-negotiable for you, communication. I should have wrote, I should have written good communication 'cause all communication is not the communication that I'm looking for, but yeah, good communication. Even like, I just, even when I send my friends memes like on social media, a lot of my friends will reply, won't reply to the memes I've sent, and then send me memes, and I'm like, I'm not watching this until you watch what I've sent you. So yeah, definitely communication. - I love that, she's a communicator. What's the question you wish you were asked more in interviews? - My love for soccer in parentheses, football, because she's a lunatic, so you like football. - Love it, I used to play, I played for like eight or nine years, which is probably something that a lot of people don't really know about me, but yeah. - You know, one of my homeboys, my girl, because shout as she can, is Leroy Sonny. He played for Manchester, are you familiar with him as a football player? - No, damn, Leroy. - No, but I'm not a Manchester United fan, or Manchester United, depending on who he is. I'm a Arsenal fan. My brother is a Man United fan, so that's like, that's the ups a little bit. - Okay, shout out to Leroy Sonny. - I don't know much, but I knew him. Who is someone you've met that made you feel starstruck? These names are incredible. Beyond say Stevie Wonder. - It's always gonna be Beyonce for one, 'cause I just like, yeah, but Stevie Wonder, I was just like, it didn't feel real, like it didn't feel like I was actually meeting him, and I got to sing with him at his annual, he does like an annual show for Christmas for his foundation, and I got to sing with him, and I was just like, this is just not even happening right now, but he was just saying. - Superstition. - Such a good city song too. - And fun, yeah, all his songs are fun, but that one is like very like, yeah. - It was really fun, and he was really sweet, and like, it was just, it was a dream come true, honestly. - I love that. I hear really good things. I've met, I think I met, maybe Stevie once before, but I hear that he's very encouraging to the next relationship, which I think is awesome. - Yeah, he's super open, really nice. Like, I feel like, I never actually asked him anything in terms of advice when I was there, but he was, he was very warm, and I know that if I did, he would have, yeah. - Yeah, that's dope, that's dope. Okay, last one, what's a mantra you live by and why? Always show up as yourself, as cliche as it is, no one fills the space the way you do. We are all built different for a reason. I mean, it don't get no better than that. - It is cliche. I know people are probably like rolling their eyes, like, yeah, that's what everybody says, but it really is true. - But I started to realize that the whole point of something being cliche is because it's true. Like, it got so redundant that everybody was just like, okay, but it's like, guys, hold on to it though. 'Cause a lot of times we forget. Okay, thanks for doing the pretty show, pull up. How are you feeling? I'm so happy to have you on this show. - Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. - How is this new era of your life? I mean, we're so excited we have this album from you. You also have a baby. I mean, so much has happened since we first met Ms. LMA. So how would you describe your current vibe? - Oh my gosh, when I think about how the world met me, I feel like I'm like a completely different person and you probably feel like that even more so. But like, yeah, it's crazy. I feel like I've stepped into this new era of motherhood and like, I'm over 30 now and I always say like, I feel like when women hit their 30s, it's just like, there's just a different vibe. There's a different energy that is like, hard to explain, but anybody, any woman that's over 30 knows exactly what I'm talking about. - Girl, yes. - Exactly. And just like, just waking up and being present in the moment and trying to appreciate things as they happen and just being surrounded by the people that I want to be surrounded by. You know, like not having to deal with stuff that I don't really want to deal with. That's where I'm at, yeah. - I do think the baby helped with that. - For whatever reason, the patience for things that we didn't even know we were outsourcing is gone. - It's because you just don't even have the time for it. Like, now your schedule is kind of on your baby, especially in the start of it. Like you just really don't have time for anything outside of what is like, the priority at that moment. So I think, yeah, I just, yeah, I'm just, I'm enjoying life. - So what does your day look like? And I feel like you do something good that a lot of artists maybe can't do or don't know how to do where, we don't always know what's going on in "Ella Life." You know what I mean? But it doesn't seem like you're being weird about it. It's just kind of like, "Ella living her life." You know, we don't see it when we see it. She's gonna show us what she wanna show us. So like, what does it look like for you? Like, are you just, you know, always with the baby? Do y'all go out? Are you traveling, you know? - It really depends. Like, right now, obviously I'm doing, I released the album. So right now, I haven't been around him as much. This is probably like the longest it's been that I haven't like, consecutively been with him. But it's been great because I know that he's taken care of and, you know, I don't have to worry about him. So I'm really grateful for my village. But like, typically, on the days where I'm not working and I'm just at home, it would really just be we wake up. He has a nanny, so she give him his breakfast 'cause I don't play about my sleep. - Shout out to the nannies. - Yes, absolutely. But I don't play about my sleep. I have to make sure I have a good nine, at least nine, which people think it's excessive. - That's why you look so blue. - Thank you, I tried. But that sleep, that sleep, yeah. The newborn phase for me was really rough because waking up every two hours was, yeah. Anywho, yeah, so he'll be with his nanny for the morning and show, give him breakfast and do activities, you know, all the things. And then once I get him, we really just chill. It depends on the day. Like, well, we can go outside, we'll go for a walk. We might stay inside and play. He's like really obsessed. I'm not an anti-screen time mom. So he's like really obsessed with sing right now, the movie sing, which makes me really excited 'cause I feel like, oh, you might be a musical baby. So I'm like, yeah, let's watch that again, and again, and again. And he recently, the last time I watched it with him, he actually started singing one of the songs, just like the little, just a tiny little part that I was like, I see what this is. We're gonna run with it. So yeah, really just spending as much time with him as I can do and whatever it is that he wants to do. Like, I got him a kitchen for Christmas, so he's been obsessed with playing in his little kitchen and acting like he's making me food and stuff like that. So he's one and a half. So there's only, you know, there's but so much, other than stuff like the Children's Museum or, you know, taking him out for activity stuff, but you're just, are you a movie person? Are you at home binging shows? Do you cook? I'm not a huge movie person. It's like, I, yeah, I'm not a huge movie person. I don't cook. I'm not selling, I'm not really selling myself right now. Damn, I don't cook. No, I like, was not made to be in the kitchen. That's one thing I always say. Like, I'll clean. Yeah, absolutely cleaning too. But cooking, I just like, three hours of all the prep and cooking, and then I'm gonna eat for five minutes. I'm just like, and then you have to clean after that. It's just like a whole thing. I'm like, yeah, and I'm like, I think if I put my mind to it, I would be able to cook, but I just like, don't really have the energy. In my mind, I also imagine you maybe like by a window, like, are you writing? Are you journaling? I mean, yes, I do love to journal, and I love to put pen to paper. I was just speaking about this the other day, like, I'm getting lazy and just doing stuff on my phone, but I really, which is probably why my handwriting was the way it was, 'cause I need to pick up a pen, But. Do you cook? - Yeah, I cook, but I'm like you. Like, I want to cook more. I like, whenever I do it and I have the time, I actually love to get lost in his great time for album. You know, let's do it, new song, what new thing, or even a podcast, like this one. (laughing) I love like just like how I can curate a vibe while I cook. And it's always good when you can also do it with somebody. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, my son will be in there or his cousins, you know? So I like that vibe, but girl, you know, we don't, we have in time. So it's like, you need time in order to cook. So I want to create more time for myself to just like, live in between the working. That's been big for me this year. - Yeah, girl. - That's, it's hard. - Yeah, it is. So, big on your Scorpio identity, I have to know like, when I think about a Scorpio, I'm thinking assertive, I'm thinking like spicy, you know, it's a little stereotypical things. But is there an unscorpio trait of yours that you think you could identify? - Oh, I don't know, 'cause I, as I said, as we said, I am son and moon Scorpio. So it's very much Scorpio over here. It really is, but that's a great question. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that question since my identity really is Scorpio. - I don't know. - Yeah, okay, we come back to that. She said I'm Scorpio to the bone. - I really am. I do feel like there are a few misconceptions with Scorpios, but I think it's just also Scorpio men and Scorpio women, very different. I think that's all signs though. - All signs, but when let's talk about the misconception, yes, I like that. - I feel like people tend to think that Scorpios are like super, super jealous, like we're super jealous. - In relationships. - Yeah, yeah. - I would like to spin it and say, I think we are more so territorial than jealous. And there's a thin line, but I do think those are two different things. I think it gets misconstrued for jealousy. - I've actually never seen in a friend or in like I dated one Scorpio when I was a teenager. I've never thought jealous. - Okay, she thought sometimes that y'all could be a little detached. - Really? - Not detached attached, like in like not a loving way, but very kind of like cool comic collective. You guys have always given me cool comic books. - I will say we all cool comic books. - Yeah, and very kind of like get it together because you'll lose it. Like that's what I always feel like. I get from Scorpio. Virgos, I feel like we have misconceptions with Virgos where people think we just like know it all so we're like very like. - And by the way, actually. - My brother's a Virgo and he's definitely like that. People think Virgos are actually as (beep) so I don't know. I feel like I'm not, you know, I feel like I just want people to know the information. - Yeah, I think Virgos are just, I think the better word for it is particular. I think, and I think that's a good word. I think you should be particular, especially about things that you're passionate about and stuff like that. So yeah, I wouldn't say, yeah, I wouldn't, I think I have a lot of Virgos in my life and I wouldn't say they think they know it all. I just think that they're very particular. And I'm okay with that 'cause I'm a particular person too. - And that's why Virgos and Scorpio's go together. - Okay, well, let's go back to the beginning. First of all, your mom named you Ella. - After Ella Fitzgerald and Gerald. She sounds kind of like you with your son. She, that she always see this singing future, like was she a singer? - No, no, no. My mom is tone deaf, okay? And she won't even be mad at me saying that 'cause she really is. But I will say, I always grew up around music. My auntie was a singer and I grew up in church. My grandma's a minister. So there was always, yeah, there was always music around. But she did say, my mom loved jazz music as I called Ella. My brother is called Miles After Miles Davis. So yeah, she's always been a big jazz music lover. And she did tell me that she did wish when she named me. She's like, oh, maybe she'll be a singer. But she never really like, she just said it. She just put out into the atmosphere and then just never really thought anything of it until I started to grow and she realized, 'cause I did perform an artist like from when I was little. So she kinda realized like, oh, maybe this will be a thing. But yeah, she's not, she's, she cannot sing. - What is it like in, I just thought about this. What is it like in a London church? Like, did you go up like that? Like is it like, the American church is it? - Yeah, I will say I feel like your American churches are a bit more like, I don't know if extravagant is the right word, but like anything is bigger. I feel like in America, do you know what I mean? So my grandma with Pentecostal. - Okay, okay. - So it was definitely still, but it was still like quiet. - Yeah, yeah, it was definitely jumping. But my grandma's also Jamaican. So a lot of the people in the church are of Jamaican heritage too. So that brings a different vibe also. But yeah, American churches, I think are a lot more, they're just, everything is bigger in America. - My grandma's church was lily called New Candy Land. Why would your church be called that? - Yeah, that's crazy. - And it was like three hour, like we had intermission. - Oh yeah. - It was one of them. - You spent the whole day at church. - You spent the whole day at church, but really good singing. - Yeah. - Really good. Okay, what was the first song that you remember writing? Like back in your early days of becoming, you know, a musician, like what do you remember? - Yes. - That'd be a mic. - Actually, when I think about it now, probably it was actually not that great. ♪ Baby, it's this kickin' polo, yeah ♪ - There is a very specific kind of joy that happens when you get three generations of your family all under one roof. And if you know, you know, I'm talking about mom teaching the grandkids something in the backyard, daddy on the grill doing what he does best, the cousins running around being feral in the best way possible. And let me tell you that kind of moment, you're not really getting that in a hotel. In a hotel, everybody ends up in their own room, doors closed, doing their own thing. It starts to feel more like a logistics exercise than a family memory. But when I book a stay on Airbnb, like when I went to Big Bear, ugh, it's a whole different vibe. You get a real home in a real neighborhood with enough space so nobody's on top of each other, but still close enough that everybody's part of the same story. And that's what makes it special. Spring is the perfect time to do it before summer gets hectic and everybody's schedules take over. Find a home on Airbnb and get your whole family under one roof. Trust me, that's where the magic is. (upbeat music) - But I didn't pick up songwriting until quite later on in my, so I went to school for music, and when songwriting was a class that we did. And I always used to think, I don't know why, but I always used to think that you have to be like this crazy poet or this crazy writer in order to be a songwriter. - Yes. - And just because I thought it was like an incredible skill, which it is, but I didn't realize, and although I grew up listening to music where it felt like people were, you know, really just explaining their lives, I didn't realize that like I could just explain my life or what I was going to do and make it into a song until I did the songwriting class in school. And once I started to explore that, I was like, wow, I can do this. It's not something that like is super far fetched, so I was practicing it more and I got in the studio. This was, I was still living in London, and I wrote a bunch of songs. I had a friend who was a producer and I just kind of just wrote out whatever I was feeling. It wasn't even really like what was going on in my life. But there was like a group of songs I wrote. I can't remember which one was first, but it was about a relationship. And I was kind of just like making it up almost honestly, but they were like a little bit darker than the love of a girl that I am now. And I don't know if that was just, yeah, I don't know if that was just, I felt like it was easier to write about a heart break at that time. But yeah, I had put it on SoundCloud, like early, early, early, early days, but they were like really short and really, if I listen to them now, I'm gonna be embarrassed. But like that was, yeah, I was probably about 17. - Well, we're all so things to eat at teenagers. I was always like going through something. I was like, but what are you going through? But that's really dope. I like what you said about songwriting 'cause I think in general that's how it can feel about the arts, but I feel that way especially about writing and when people first get started, and even when I first started getting writing, I always felt like there had to be some type of big ass thing going on. You know what I mean? When it's just like, it's just you. - Just write whatever you feel. And even just in terms of dependent on the genre, even if when taking genres out of it, just like, okay, a chorus, a pre-chorus, an outro and intro, like how do we do A, B, A, B? Like, you know, I just always felt like there was this whole thing when it's really just like, just go in there and do what you feel, which I've learned obviously over my journey, but like the start, it was like a terrifying thing for me, yeah. - When I was looking at, when we're getting ready to do this interview, I was like, how did I miss the fact that she was on X-Factor? - I was, yeah, it's 'cause it was the English X-Factor. - Yeah, she was on X-Factor, when a girl grew a rise, is that, so tell me about that experience and where that was and you're like a professional career. - Yeah, you know, at what point were you when you did that and then obviously you guys did a make it? - Yeah, I was, this was probably like the year after I started songwriting, so I was around 18, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, and I went to school for music and one of the girls I was in a class with was my really good friend. She told me like, oh, there's this producer that like wants to put together a girl group. Now, I never wanted to be in a girl group. I was just like, she said make it after she joined. Not even, but I was just like, that just sounds like a headache, like I just, yeah, wasn't anything that I ever wanted to do, but I was like, you know what? I'm in school for music. I'm not really like, I'm songwriting, but I'm not really doing loads. Like, let me just see how it goes. So we go to the studio with this producer and we meet another girl and that's how we end up as a three in the girl group a rise. So the school that I went to, X Factor Holds, they almost like scout at music schools. - Yeah. - Yeah, so they were scouting and we were like, should we try this? Like, what do we have to lose? We don't have anything to lose. So we were like, okay, cool, we're gonna try it and we went through a couple auditions. There's like a couple of auditions before you actually get to the TV part. And we got through all of them and everything seemed like it was going so well. I was like, oh my god, we're like about to win this competition. We didn't even get to, we didn't even get to the TV stage yet, but it just felt like it was going so well. I was like, okay, cool, we might have something here. We get to the first TV round, they loved us. Four yeses, like, oh, you guys are just bringing something new. - Love you. - Like, blah, blah, yeah. And we were like, I know everything was really exciting. And this was also my first time experiencing anything that was on TV. So that was definitely a different experience. - Yeah. - We get to the next round and we got four nose. They completely changed that. - What happened? Ain't there only four judges? - All four that said yes. Turn around and said no. And I was like, dang, like we must have been really bad this time, like I don't know. And I didn't feel like we were. But I was like, oh, okay. And then like, we didn't really take it to heart 'cause this was something that we did just kind of off the whim and like, oh, we don't have anything to lose. It definitely did like show me more into how TV works for sure. So that I'm grateful for. But then after that, not because of X Factor, but just because we kind of just decided, cool, we're gonna all kind of do our own thing and then we dismantled and then yeah. - Yeah. Have you seen any of those girls? - I just saw the one that I went to school with and was like my really good friend. I literally just saw her just after Christmas. We used to practice at her mom's house, like me and her mom's kitchen and her mom would cook for us and we would be practicing our harmonies and stuff. So I went to their house to see the whole family, yeah. - I love that, I love that. I mean, well, I remember when you were discovered. I think most of anybody that was online what, 2016. In that era, we remember seeing your videos 'cause they were like going viral at the wild. Like it was like, you would do something and then we were like, oh, who's that girl again? And then DJ Muster, he reached out to you. He obviously signed you. Tell me what that was like. And if there was any like apprehension or concern 'cause I don't know if you've been to America yet or you know, anything. - I actually lived in New York for high school. - Okay. - So I had been back and forth. I also had family out here. But I will say New York and LA are two completely different things. So I first, when I was doing my covers like, the very first one that I did, I obviously, again, I was just doing it on a whim. I'm like, I don't have anything to lose. We had just broken up the girl group. So I'm like, cool, what can I do to try and put myself out there? This was when Instagram only allowed you to post 15 seconds. - That's right. - Like, this was the very start of Instagram video. Like, no reels, nothing like that. - Yeah. - So I was like, okay, well, I have 15 seconds and I kind of need to make the 15 seconds count. So I was like, cool, I'll do, had this whole plan of like whatever songs were popping at the moment, like let me do those because that's, you know, - Smart. - You know, used to hearing, yeah. So I'm doing all of this not realizing like, what it would be or knowing what it would be. But I was just like, let me try. So a couple videos in, as you said, they started to go viral. And I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I should probably keep doing it. Like, so I just kept doing a whole bunch of different covers, must have found me. And I happened to be in New York, visiting my friends from high school. And he was doing a Made in America festival. - Okay, okay. - Which is in Philadelphia. So he was like, you know, he had, when he first hit me up, he was like, what's your situation? Like, you know, I really love what you do. And I had no situation, no management, no nothing. I was literally singing into my phone in my bedroom, in my mom's house with a YouTube back in track. I didn't even have a mic, like, didn't have anything. Literally just, yeah, looked anyhow. I was just like, whatever. So I was like, I don't have a situation. Like, I'm just, you know, I'm an aspiring artist, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he was like, okay, cool, I would love to work with you. So I told him, oh, I'm going to be in New York, X, Y, and Z. And so we made it happen when he was in Philly, and I was in New York. We do this first studio session in New York. I take my friends with me because, again, I didn't have management. And I was like, I don't want to show up by myself. I, you know, I don't know what I'm walking into. But genuinely, I could have walked in there by myself. Like, it was just such a warm environment. Like, he literally just said to me, I just want to see how you work. I'd never been in a studio this size. This was like a big studio. Wow. I'm used to like, make shift studios or little studios. And which were fine, both work. But like, I was just like, damn, this is like a little bit intimidating. This is obviously, this is mustard. Yeah. Or like, loads of hits already. So I'm like, okay, well, I'm just going to give it my best shot. Yeah. And we recorded three songs that night. I remember. And like, I left the studio not really knowing. Like, he was, he gave me creative control. He was like, I just want to see what you do. I'll give you whatever you want to pick from this pack. You do what you do. And let's see. So I did that. And I thought it was really cool that he wasn't kind of like over my shoulder saying, do this, do that. And from there, he was like, oh, I want to get you out to LA. But I'd also been in situations, too, where like people would say, oh, I want to get you here. I want to get you there. And you know, it doesn't work. So I'm like, I didn't know what was happening with those songs. I could have been demo artists, whatever. Right. True. That happens. Right. So I left. And I was just like, well, I gave it my best shot. And then he followed up. And he was like, I want to get you to LA, watch your schedule, blah, blah, blah. So we got in contact with like his management. And I still, again, didn't have management. But we made it work. And I came to LA three times within a year, which is when we made all of the songs that are on the first EP's that we put out. And that was 20, yeah, that was 10 years ago now, which is insane. I'm just like, where does time go? But I love what you were saying, because I think all producers are different. But Mustard does have this vibe where, and I think again, when you think about his tracks and how he can trans, or his beats, how he can transform a song, it does very give, do your thing. And then let me do my thing. And then it becomes this big piece. Yes. And the beautiful part about it, people always ask me like, you know, in this 10 year relationship that me and Mustard have had, like what has changed. And honestly, our process is still exactly that same way. And that's something that I've always really appreciated because I've never felt, don't get me wrong. He will always tell me the truth. He'll always be like, I don't know if this works, I don't know if that works, whatever. And I've also like, I'm a lot, I'm science to him, but I'm allowed to work with any producer that I want to work with. It's never like, oh, you just only have to work with me. He's always been very, very open. But it's always been like that. And I think that really, really helped me gain my own confidence, because I could also trust myself without feeling like, okay, whatever Mustard says goes. And you know, and even if he disagreed with me or something, if I was like really strong and like, I really like this song, and he was like, I don't think it's the best. But if this is what you want, then we'll do that. He's always been a very, very amazing mentor and really honest, and I'm just really grateful for that relationship because I know everybody's situation is not like that. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's not. And definitely, I was interested, it was interesting hearing you say this because I was thinking when I was listening to the album, it was a different vibe than usual that he would usually give us, you know, we know what we know, a Mustard on the beat. And I think that's really, what's really interesting also about our musical relationships. That's crazy. I mean, that he met me. He said he wanted to, he wanted to venture into R&B, you know, he was definitely just like a hip-hop producer, and I think it's amazing when you look at my catalog and just the stuff that he's done, even like with Rihanna, or you know, he is definitely not what you would expect Mustard to produce. And I think that is, is really cool to be a part of that in his story also because he's very much a main part of my story. But to also be a part of that in his story is really cool. What would you say to other people about your story? Because it is so interesting. I look at people like yourself. And even if we think about like, oh, like, you know, backing, backing, or do you two days or soldier boy or Justin Bieber, like we got a lot of talent, talent over the course of time come from social media. How much of that, because now it's overloaded, yeah, I think it's really hard to be seen. So like some of it is like, obviously you're talented as hell, but then some of it is timing and just, you know, things happen at the right, what would you say to that, you know, for artists? Yeah. I literally, in my case, I would say really timing, because it's funny because I think a lot of the time when I was doing my Instagram videos, or even like when I first started releasing music, people kind of still knew me as the girl who sings covers on Instagram. Sure. Yeah. I didn't really get to like, LMA, until boot up happened. And even at the start of boot up happening, people were still like, who is this? Like people didn't know I was English. People, you know, like, as you said, when I sing, you can't hear my accent. So I think like timing and that time, like you said, too, back in the day, YouTube, like it was like, Vine days, it was all of those things. It definitely was very different. And now it is very oversaturated, but I think if I was to give anyone advice in this day and age and it's very different now. So I don't know if this would be great advice, honestly, but if I, if I was to try and give someone advice, I would kind of like the mentor that I said to you, just kind of, you always kind of have to show up as yourself. So I think it's easy with social media to have imposter syndrome because you see so much of what everybody else is doing. So I mean, like you can look at it, even take out music and just look at content creation and whatever goes viral, then like 50,000 other people do that same trend. And it's just like, it's kind of the luck of the draw because it can work for some people but it doesn't always work, you know, for everyone. But I think just trying to find things that make you an individual in a world where everything is so much the same. And really what I'm hearing you say if we even just go and compress it further, brand, you need a brand. People got to figure out how to find their brand. And it's tough. It's very tough. It's literally something that I focus on always trying to teach and help even with myself, like with my platform, KTV, that's kind of like one of the main messages of it is like how to build a brand and find a way to make people want to come to you for what only you can do. And that's like, that is not difficult. And most of the time, it takes money, trial and error, a bunch of practice, which is very expensive. But it's like, you know, if you can find a way like every little moment to invest in yourself, it's worth it because that's why you find your voice. Well, obviously, your voice is amazing and I agree with you that when boot up happened, I mean, that's when everybody knew, you know, that okay, element, she is, she's coming through. You know, she's somebody that you need to pay attention to. It's a Grammy-winning record. I mean, 2018, you won a Grammy. This must have been quite crazy because it was like, I was just, you know, over there I loved it at the church. And now I don't want a Grammy on my first, essentially project. I mean, feel it? This was from your first project. Yeah. These were from my first EPs. It was my first ever Grammy nominations. It was my first Grammys going to the Grammy. Everything was just happening so quickly. I was just kind of like, what is going on now? Did you feel any pressure after that moment, like, because when everything happens, it's like, whoa. And then it comes down and then it's like, so now, what does it mean to do it again? What does it mean to have continuous success? people going to think I'm a one hit one you know like what How were you dealing with all those questions? - To be honest, I think being as young as I was, I mean, I wasn't super young, I was 24, I think if I'm remembering correctly, but I think being like so new in the industry, I was like a little bit naive to what was actually happening. And I honestly, when I look back now, I think that actually helped me deal with the pressure of it. Because now I'm very much aware of how the industry works, how, you know, like I see the ins and outs, I've been in it for 10 years now, so I'm very aware. At that time, I had just kind of just got here. You know, I was, it was my first maybe year or two, maybe my second year, but definitely my first year on like this grand scale. So having must have, by my side, obviously helped, because he had been in the industry for a lot longer, so he could like kind of steer me in which direction to go, but I think when it came now to making my sophomore album, I was happy with the sick, obviously, I'm forever indebted to boot up, and then we followed up with Trip, which was like a great follow up. And I think that, thank you. That kind of relieved me of the one-hit wonder thing, 'cause that I was like, okay, cool, I think we're good. And even if I never do anything ever, ever again in my life, I don't think you can call me a one-hit wonder, and that was very important to me, 'cause I, but even so, I think that people saying one-hit wonder is like, look at that as a bad thing. Do you know how hard it is to get that one hit? - Yeah, I agree with you. And what does it mean? - Well, really, when people say one-hit wonder, they just mean like something that's not a massive hit, 'cause half the people that be caught, they be called a one-hit wonder half hole-on-albums, hole-on-albums. - Hole-blown discographies. - Fans, yeah, you know what I mean? All that type of stuff. So I agree with you. It's really faking in any regard. I mean, unless there's maybe like, maybe like one. - But even if somebody is a one-hit wonder, let's just say we take out all of that, and they really just had one song that hit like, some people don't get that in their whole career. - It's true. - So it's just like, I feel like it's looked at so negatively, but it's, you're lucky if you get that. So I was really, really grateful. One, for that, for it to happen so early in my career also, the success of my debut album was also just huge. I was like, when I went to record my sophomore album, I'm like, oh, so where do we even begin? 'Cause like, I was really like, I know there's a sophomore curse. That's one thing already. My debut album was so successful. Boot up trip, it was so successful. I'm like, do I need to make another boot up? Like, do I need to make another trip? Like, is my sophomore album supposed to sound exactly like my debut album? I was very confused and a little bit conflicted, and I think I was overthinking it for sure. I must have, I remember, I must have sat me down. Kind of at the start of the process, and was just like, look, just do what you do. Like, all of the rest of it, we will figure out once we get to the end of the process of recording. But while you're recording, if you think about all this stuff, you're not gonna produce what you want to produce. And then COVID hit. So it was even more time to overthink. Because we were just really just like sitting at home. COVID was like a lifetime. Ooh, it really, we all went into a time warp. I think we're still in the warm room of that, because it was, yeah, it changed everything. Wow, yeah, so during that time, you were just in a, were you writing or really? I was writing, I was recording, and I was just kind of just like trying to figure it out. Halfway through studios open back up, but it was like, you only had like a limited amount of people that are allowed to be in there. Everybody was wearing masks, unless I was recording. Like, it was just a very different vibe. So that also played on, yeah. What am I supposed to do? 'Cause we didn't even know if people were ever gonna tour again. So it was just like a very weird time. And I recorded 80, 80 songs in my sophomore album process, which is the most that I've ever in. I mean, I'm only three albums in, but even so, like, it was just excessive because I was just overthinking it. And the timing of it was just, yeah. So. In my mind, because I'm obviously, you know, getting your music, you know, I'm hearing it, and there's a very clear sense of self. There's a very clear, I don't know what you're going on in your world when you're making it, but it seems like you know who you are, and we know what to expect from you. But I don't know, maybe it was there a moment where you were compromising or thought that you should or I gotta flip the sound up or change my conversation. No, I think, I think every time I step into the booth or into the studio, I have like, I am a confident person. I'm definitely an assertive person, like very much Scorpio, as we said. And as I was recording and writing, I didn't have the doubt, like, even though, even if some sessions weren't as great as the others, and I was like, oh, I don't really love this. I'm just like, whatever, okay, cool, we'll come back tomorrow. It was really the, after I left the studio, and thought about the whole process, and like looked at it as a whole piece where I was like, oh, am I doing, you know, am I doing this right? But I will say the people around me, throughout my whole journey, have always really, really helped keep me grounded and helped keep me up where I wanna be. And I think that's really important. Who would those people be, you'd say, actually? Oh my gosh. Thank you, your mom, I'm sure. My mom, 1,000% she's always been like, my strongest supporter, like, in anything, my brother, my grandma, my friends, like, I still have, most of my friends are still my friends I had before any of this even happened. So they definitely will keep me grounded. Like, I remember when we were going to Wendy's and we only had $5 and we were sharing a meal, they absolutely will keep me grounded. But yeah, I think I've just always had a really good support system, and I think that's really helps. 'Cause I can, I, being in it now, especially for 10 years, I can see if you don't have that, how it's very easy, how it's very easy to get lost, yeah. Very, but we gotta get into the numerology at all, because girl, you're born on November though. Yes, I am. And then you released a trilogy of EPs as your first project after getting signed. Then you released a three track EP title three on your 30th birthday. Yes, I did. And you have a tattoo of a three? I do. So what is this three? I just love that number. I love that number. I think three is a great number. Obviously, I'm born on the third, which, I don't know, it just always held a, like, really special place to me in my heart. I feel like, I don't know. I feel like one and two are also very special numbers. Don't get me wrong. But there's just something about a three. And I think I've always, when I think about my friendship groups, even, I've always kind of traveled in threes. The girl group I was in was a three piece. Like, three has just always been a very-- Three piece nuggets. Yeah. A very prominent number in my life. So yeah. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah, because I wanted to know what else it meant to me. I have numbers that feel that way to me. But I'm like, I loved how you really lined it up. I'm like, she on that left eye. Yeah. A little bit. And this is now my third album that I just released. And obviously, I'm going to release more. But like, so far, this is my favorite project. She's like, there I am. Bye-bye. No. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I've done three. Maybe, no. No. No. No. No. We definitely need more. No. I thought this was also cool. For you, did you miss me too in 2025? You revisited some of your first venues. Yeah. You're very sentimental. Very extreme. I'm learning it about streaming. Extremely. Yeah. So what was it like being back in those spaces again? It was like a time warp, honestly, because it had been-- I did it in 2017 was my very first time. I had lined my own shows. So going back to these venues, two of them-- I did six shows. Two of the venues that I originally did don't exist anymore. So we had to kind of pivot and find a venue that was a similar size in the similar area. So that was fine. But even so, just being able to-- it had been a while since I was on stage. So I said to my agent, I just kind of want to do something to end the year. We knew obviously the album was dropping start of the year. So I was like, what can we do? That's like special. It makes me feel like I'm giving back to my fans also for just being always so patient with me because I take long breaks in between my albums. But also for me, I haven't been on stage in a while. I just kind of want to feel that energy again. And I was like, what if we redid what we did in 2017? And she loved it. She was like, I think that's an amazing idea. It's like really intimate shows. And I can kind of feel like I'm having a conversation with people as opposed to it being just like, OK, we did this whole production, which is great in itself, too. But I just wanted something to feel like how it used to feel when everything first started. Because I feel like I don't feel like you ever get that feeling back. And I think a lot of the time we're chasing that feeling almost. Even though things progress and you want them to progress and they become great in their own way, in the new way, I just kind of wanted to feel that feeling again. And that's exactly what it did. I was so grateful to be able to do that and kind of get my feet wet again before we release this album and do a whole bunch of other shows. But it was great. I was so close to everyone. People were like, I was doing old songs like my old set list that I don't really do anymore. People were screaming out like, oh, can you do this? Can you do that? And it was just kind of improvised. And it was honestly everything I wanted it to be. What do you contribute to your breaks in between your projects? Because I think that to me makes me think about like TLC or even like a lot of the OG 90s groups and stuff like that where early 2000s, especially with R&B, where people really did take a lot of time in between. And I know that there's maybe more people that do that in these days, but I do feel it's rare. I feel like most of the time everybody's like, seven years, seven albums. And it's like, you know, that's great. But it is, I do think there's something special to what we used to have where it's like people like five albums. This is what happened in those five years. So what does it just happen for you? Is it intentional? Yeah, it's never like extremely intentional. I will say that it's never like right. I'm taking four years and my next album will come out in four years. It's never that it just kind of has been how it's gone really for me and I think in the same way you said like one thing that's big for you this year is making time to live. I am very big on the fact that like I have to go and live my life in order to be able to create. Like I need something to speak about. Like if I'm, if I'm, and I'm always writing in between and having ideas and writing stuff down, but like I feel like I need to live and really experience things and like feel like, okay, cool, I'm ready to put this on a record. Before, I mean, instead of just going in the studio just going to be. in the studio and be like, oh yeah, I'm in the studio today. - Yeah. - I feel like I mean, yeah, I wanna have something to speak about and it's just so happened that each of my albums have been four years apart and yeah, it wasn't super intentional. First one being that obviously, like I said, COVID in between, COVID also happened. This one in between, I had a baby, so like it kinda just happened that way. But I'm also not, I don't like oversaturation. I would, I'd much prefer quality over quantity. So, which is also why I said, I'm really grateful to my fans. They give me the space to be able to do that and not feel like, oh my god, I'm gonna be forgotten if I take too long. But yeah, I just, I really feel like I need to feel proud of what is that I'm putting out. And if that takes a little bit longer, I would much rather it take longer and put out something that I'm really proud of as opposed to like, oh, I just need to put this out because everybody's putting something out. - Yeah, but to that point, you do make songs that live even when you're not making new songs. - You know what I mean? - I try. - It's like four years could go by and we're still listening to what happened, you know, at the beginning of those four years, I think it's great, it's very hard to do. - Thank you. - So let's talk about, do you still love me? - Yes. - Release February 6th, this third album. I mean, just like, so when did you know you was done with it and when did you know that this was the album? - So we went through like different versions of this album, I will say. We knew we were done with it probably, like really, really done with it, probably like four of last year or like end of summer last year. - Okay. - So not that long ago, but we just wanted to, you know, we also wanted to do a complete rollout this time and kind of make it, I really wanted to like, bring people into my world a little bit more. So yeah, we wanted to create a real, I don't know, like a, yeah, a world really that you feel kind of immersed when you listen to the album. And as again, goes back to the albums, I felt like that I grew up listening to, they really created a world that you felt like you were like, in, when you listen, in. So we knew we were done around summertime ish. And I don't know, it was weird because we don't have any features on the album, but every time we listen to it, we kind of just like didn't feel like anything was missing and it wasn't even like, oh, I'm doing an album with no features because I want it to just be me. It just kind of happened that way. But it was kind of, I was like, wow, nobody feels like anything is missing. So this is the album. And it was like, it was fun. It was probably the most fun I've had recording. As I said, with my sophomore album, I was like, really in my head, my debut album, I was like present, but so much was happening that I just felt like I was just like going with the flow. This one, I was like, I just want to go in the studio and have fun. Like, I want to remember why I love music, remember why I love making music, and just whatever comes out comes out. And if we love it today, we love it today. Hopefully we love it tomorrow. And if we don't, then we'll try again. You know, I just didn't want to put any pressure on myself. I was also pregnant and postpartum recording this album. So that was another reason why I didn't want to stress it. I was like, I cannot be in here like my sophomore album because that's, it's also, you know, that's dangerous. - Yeah. - So we kind of just created a space where I was with like the people that I'm most comfortable with. And like, yeah, we just did it like that. It was very few people around and just had fun. I didn't want anything to feel super, super pressured. - I love what you said about that. It felt very like immersed in my world and you opened up to us. Because I did feel like, you know, obviously it's your music. And I feel like, again, this is an extension of that. But you did go really deep. I wasn't sure if these are like just stories that, you know, you know, making up. Or if this is really your life because it was really, it was vulnerable. - Yeah, it was definitely vulnerable. - Yeah, like when you stand at any point because I mean, like, again, you're private. So it's like, we don't know. We just know you had a baby. You popped up, it was like, damn, the baby was doing something. You know, but then when we hit that album, it's like, you really, there's love. And I think that is such a sweet thing to hear because again, this is no shade to what's going on because whether people I love or not, you know, we do hear a lot on the radio where it's like, get them out of here. We don't want to do. You know, and that's fine. We'd be there for that too. But you weren't afraid to be like, it's me and you baby. - Yeah. - I was like, okay. - I think, honestly, I think that's just me as a person also, like, so I was like, you know, as I was recording this album, I don't think I even actually realized how vulnerable I was being at the time. But also, when you're pregnant, I feel like your hormones are just going all over the place. So when I look back on an hindsight, like, I wasn't even thinking about it, like, oh, do I let people in or whatever. It was just, I was just making the music that I felt. - Yeah. - And it felt good. So before we release, I was like, yeah, this is more, definitely more personal than my previous two albums. But like, I feel like the music that I grew up listening to, people kind of did let you into their world a little bit more as the journey progressed. So I'm still in control of what I'm putting out there. And I was fine with it. And I was just like, yeah, I kind of want to dig a little bit deeper into my world in the way that my brain works and the type of person I am, while still holding things very close to me. And that being okay. So yeah. - Yeah, what did people very close to you like your mom say? Or even your partner hearing, you have to split this out. - You know what's so funny? There's one song, there's one song on the album that we recorded on Valentine's Day last year. And I remember playing it for my best friend. He was like, there's been my best friend from high school, like known him for 15 plus years. He was like, there is no way that you're putting that out. And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, I just know you. Like there's just no way. And so when I showed him the final track list, he was like, I'm proud of you. Like I never thought that you would open up that much. And he was like, I'm really like, you should be proud of yourself. 'Cause the person that I've known for 15 plus years would definitely be like, nope. But I don't know, as I get older and definitely like you said, becoming a mom, I just felt like it was one of those things. And everybody around me really loved, I think love to see that this is the way I feel. And I feel comfortable enough to share that. I feel safe enough to share that. - And would you say was the baby that, 'cause I feel like this for me, when I have my son, again, we all are like, I'm 100%, but something happens that you realize there was a whole other 100%. You had not even tapped into it. So you would say it's the same for you then. That's why you were like, oh, I didn't even know I felt like giving this. That's kind of how that, yeah. I feel like your perspective when you become a mom just changes completely. Like it's just, it's actually kind of wild. 'Cause even while you're pregnant, you're still like, you know that a baby is coming, but you still don't know exactly what to expect. You can prepare yourself. You can say, right, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. And then when the baby comes, it's like, it's wherever the baby wants. So that can go completely out the window. But yeah, I think he's just made me, my son has really made me look at life very differently. I used to be a very black and white person. I used to be like, it's this or it's this and there's no gray area. He's just completely changed my perspective and how I look at things and I know that like, I literally cannot control everything. Some things are just gonna happen. And it's not even a big deal to not be in control as much as I used to. Like, you know, sometimes I kind of want to embrace the beauty of just wanting to new it. So, yeah, he definitely, I would say it's because of him, I'm thankful for that. - So walk me through some of the songs, maybe like the top three, or you know, four or five, how many you felt? That means the most to you on the album and what? ♪ Baby, it's this, he keep calling you ♪ (upbeat music) - I think the very first one there goes my heart is really special to me. I think just because it was really just like allowing myself to feel, even if like I have felt other things before, I feel like if you know, you go through heartbreak and you're like, I'm not doing this again and whatever else. But really just kind of opening yourself back up and allowing that to happen again was what there goes my heart. It's about just really kind of like, 'cause I'm also a very independent person. I think you're definitely giving me the yeah. So I'm just kind of like, I could do it by myself if I want to, do you know what I mean? But then, you know, just having a space where you feel safe enough to let your guard down and just kind of be you in the chaos of all of what's going on in our careers, our work life. That's really special. So that's really what that song is about. It's also beautiful because when you are a public figure, like as a woman, maybe it's different for guys, but as a woman, when you're so obviously independent and also private, but still so deeply loving, it can be hard for people to understand that. You know, and they want you to prove it. They always want you to come on front to be like, and this is where we did, which is crazy. And it's unfair because you're actually showing that love by keeping it private, you know what I mean? And still keeping something to it. So I really get that because a lot of times, people would think that the way that I'm saying or how I am that I'm like being cold, but it's like, actually, no, I'm the most loving ever, but I'm protecting my love by not being too much. And I don't think that people who are not in it could understand it because you don't, you don't do, like, you know, this is not your world. So it's, and I think that things look very different all the time. So they see, they see the music industry or they see the entertainment industry and they think, okay, this is how it goes. And it's actually like completely different. So it's easy to obviously judge from the outside and say, oh, I would do this or I would do that or whatever, but it's like, it's just a completely different thing once you're in it. So yeah, I think it's important to keep some stuff to yourself. I think it's important to protect, you know, what it is that you love. And I think we give so much of ourselves anyway, just in terms of us sitting down and having this conversation, you're showing up to work every day, me showing up to work every day, me showing up to the studio, you know, like it, you give so much of yourself anyway that you should feel like I have some stuff to myself. I think that's very, that's an important balance. - And I don't want to perform love for you, you know what I mean? I think that I gotta be, now we gotta be, you know, that's not real. - And I think it's hard enough relationships in general, whether that be so tonic like with your family or whatever or loving relationships, it's just like, they're hard enough to navigate outside of the public eye. Like even just, everyday people who are not famous have hardships in it's just life that's just life so so once somebody to do that like in front of everybody to be under a microscope and have everybody saying a whole bunch of things is just like I would prefer not to yeah so and that's you know and that's that but yeah there goes my heart was really kind of just like opening myself back up again so that's one that's really special to me little things is a very special song to me and I was really when we obviously originally came out on my three-piece EP called Three when we put it on the album as it flowed so well with the story but we didn't when we put that EP out it was really was my 30th birthday so I was just like you know I've been gone for a while let me just give them a little something and it was those songs are from this album process so it was kind of just like we hadn't even picked the tracklist yet but this is what we put together and like to see the response that it got and and how many people loved it and again it's like a true love of girl like very lovey-dovey song I was like this is really cool because it means that people are still out there looking for love songs and and like you said in a world where a lot of it is like you know get out of here type of thing so that really also gave me the confidence more so with my album too because my album is such like a love of a girl album I'm like oh there's space for this there is absolutely space for this so yeah nobody and it was good to be like and that would be the vibe if I did yeah like to imagine yeah but you in the era yeah so it's yeah I couldn't agree more so yeah little things is a is a special song for me also and then I would say number three I would say I have a bunch of different favorites on a different day like depends on what ever day it is but chasing circles um which is towards the end of the album is really special to me has my son is life and at the end of it um and that was the that was one of the ones that I was like do I put this on there or do I not because I think it was it was it was really reflective of post-partum for me I think and that's a whole thing in itself and I will say I was quite lucky I didn't I didn't suffer with post-partum depression or the choice part of anxiety but like I can I can absolutely see how easy it is to get really really like lost in that time period because there's a lot going on and that's why again I come back to like the village that I have around me and all the help because if you don't have that I can't even imagine how difficult that time period is even though you have you know you have something that is like one of the best things that's ever happened to you but you're going through so much harmoniously yeah like your whole world has just changed and that song really is kind of like it just indicates the part of it where even on the days where I felt just like a tiny bit lost I know I have my village but I know in my heart of hearts I have myself I'm always gonna find so it's really about self-love but like knowing how to find myself again that again that knowing that I'm gonna have myself and I'm gonna have myself again I love those two things because that's really what happens as a mom you lose that's the self the self that you know she's not coming back it's okay yeah that's like she's gone but I still have a self and this is now a new self it just looks a little bit different like a really a bad bitch because she absolutely you know but that is that's the hurdle I feel like for me it was and I definitely did have like anxiety just about you talk about there goes my heart there goes my heart yes outside of your body that yeah you know that shook me up a bit because I was ready to fuck everybody I'm in when I first came off from the hospital my mom was holding the baby and was like go lay down you go like she's just being loving huh I went into my room and I'm like what do I do yeah so that is so I relate so much yeah it's definitely like it's it's a tough time period also because you don't know what to expect like like I was saying before like you couldn't plan you can put all of your ducks in a row honestly and it could be completely different when the baby gets here so yeah it's it's just interesting because you don't know what type of person you're gonna be after you have a child you don't even know what type of person your child is gonna be so there's beauty in it of course it's it's amazing it's probably the best thing I've ever done in my life honestly yeah but yeah just kind of finding myself again and and knowing that even though I might feel like this today tomorrow can be way better and in six months and you know once they get now he's one and a half I'm like it's completely different to the newborn stage and you know like it just feels he's not even super self-sufficient yet he can do things obviously but like I can only imagine how it feels once you have like a five year old and you know and you have a three year old so yeah if I say like this the three year old you don't even know what's coming when he gets today they'd be like really talking back my son to be like no I'm gonna get you you the bad mom and I'm like what the hell are you trying to like a w w e was no get out of my room but it's so funny to watch their personality like girl develop yes I was gonna ask you you don't have to answer this but did you do any of the breastfeeding were you into any of that yeah I I wasn't into it I will say that if I'm being truthfully honest I really wasn't into it I did do it and I tried um but I had like I was overproducing and okay but I was struggling to get it out uh his lack a little bit of master science it was getting to that and I that I said to my doctor listen if all the other things that we have to deal with postpartum one thing I do not want to deal with is an infection yeah yeah like that's just not so I was like stop this please yeah just end it here he's he's absolutely fine he's huge he looks like a three-year-old and he's one and a half so like obviously if your journey is easier and and that's what you want to do I'm all here for it but for me personally yeah yeah yeah that's that's that's the reason there's a reason that formula is there absolutely um but yeah I did do it for not for long I did try and once I tried and I was like I gave it my best shot I was like no did you breastfeed I did I did breastfeed for a while and it was cool but I mean I agree with you it's like a full-time job on top of the full-time job that you already jump is a lot and then I was gotten into the pumping and now I got I'm walking around with a whole like a whole set yeah I got like a very popping bag that shit and then sometimes people would lose my milk that I didn't at that point you yeah because I worked really really hard on this before I was said you got a hard point and I mean it was and then you get online and you have these people with these big jugs of mouth this is what I did just in 15 minutes and it's this big it's like in your day too like you it's so stressful I was really stressed baby and I was doing everything I could yeah but I think what really like honestly what helped me to also like do it and this is like a vanity piece but I'm sure you can relate you know after mom you trying to get yourself back right it really did help me get back like my body oh yes yes it makes you lose weight it made me look so I was like I felt like it also was like I was like just just hold on just for me and this is for you you know so um but yeah I agree with you though at the end of the day the baby got fair regardless it was like you know I was like I did my part I tried my hardest and as long as he's not starving which he absolutely wasn't I was like cool I'm good I'm good I'm ready whether any were you into like working out or anything or just like I can't wait the depth was that a concern for you I I worked out my whole pregnancy I stayed yeah I stayed working out my whole pregnancy because for some reason in my mind I felt like I was like not gonna carry well sure sure so I was just like let me just try and be proactive um and I actually was all belly when I was pregnant like so thank you yeah and it's funny because um I was like in my head I was like I guess like when you find out that you're pregnant you you have all these ideas of like especially your first time I'm sure maybe it's different like once you have multiple kids yeah but your first time you're like oh I wonder what I'm gonna look like five months six months when the bump starts to show or like oh my bump's not showing yet like it's just it's a very it's like a whole bunch of new things and you don't really know what to expect and as I was going along in my pregnancy I was like wow I thought I was gonna be like not carry well at all I thought like I don't know I just felt I don't know if it was also because my pregnancy I tried to like I said stay the least stress as possible I had so much love around me like it was such a great pregnancy I felt like I when I look back on my pictures I'm like I was glowing my hair was like luscious and like I just like really appreciate that time looking back now because it is one of the most vulnerable times in a woman's life and I think it's reflective also in my son because he's just like a loving such a loving little being um but yeah it was it was I did work out during my pregnancy now after I was part um not as much but like you said I was I really was seeing the breastfeeding helping so I was like I'm gonna hold on for as long as I can and I've tried to do things here and there we do some collities together just for fun yeah I'm just heritable app lies are you good girl I love it oh my gosh oh my gosh it's like my favorite you would you would probably laugh at me then it's so hard we could and honestly sometimes people are always doing on a reformer it's good on the match right right right because sometimes a reformer can you bust the air but if you're doing on the floor it's like we still getting to work out okay yeah let's do that let's do that because I definitely need to get I need to find a routine again for sure um so yeah postpartum has definitely been a lot more challenging to find the time and just find the energy honestly even if I do have the time um but I know I need to get back into it so yeah um so obviously you're into astrology I'm into astrology and I love exactly I love playing games with my guess so we're gonna get into the zodiac of it all okay we're playing best and worse zodiac edition okay now I'll read a scenario and you're gonna tell me which sign fits best strictly based on vibes and live experience no text bugs you know no apologies lots of shade okay best sign to share an Airbnb with oh I need somebody that's gonna be clean and like I might say a burger because you guys are particular so I already know you have everything well it's gonna be tidy we won't clean up y'all stuff that's how yeah yeah I'm gonna say I'm gonna say a burger okay best sign to calm you down during the spiral - That is a great question. - I will say, which is probably not what most people would say, but in my own experience, I would say a Leo. - No, no, I agree with you. - Which I think people mostly people think that Leo's are really like in your face and whatever else, but-- - They're wrong about them. - Yeah, I think so too. There's a lot of this concept that's about Leo. - Leo's are absolutely so loyal, so kind, so fiercely protective of the people in their life. - Very true. - The only thing with Leo's is they're crazy when it comes to love. - Yeah, they're low, they're low crazy. - They don't get rid of somebody. - But a Leo friend is, I think a friend, a lifetime friend, yeah, so I would say a Leo. - Yeah, love Leo. Okay, worst sign to call when you're already overthinking. - And aery. - Because they be going to the stomachs. What's wrong with them? I love your aery so bad, but honestly, I have a lot of like very close aery twins, and they, and I think really what it is, is because they'll send you over the edge because they just say hardcore. - The funniest thing is, I have one of my best friends as a aery, so she's definitely gonna be like, but it's funny just because if you're spiraling already, they're gonna spiral with you, and they're gonna be like, but they'll try and reel it in, but she's for sure gonna spiral with me, so. - And they're not implanted by people like, and that's why I don't think he doesn't love me, and that's the thing he probably don't. - Yeah, it's very yes, yeah. How did we get you both to say, no, we don't. You too is the agree with me. Anyway, best sign to give honest advice without hurting your feelings. This is a, I wonder who's gonna get this. - I'm gonna say a burger again, and I just say that, I say that specifically 'cause of my brother. My brother will always-- - I love your brother, also. - He'll be in August of September. - He's late August, basically right end of August, the 30th. - I'm the 26th. - We neck and neck. - Yeah, he's very, very honest with me. He's extremely honest with me, but he's my older brother, so he's always been protective and stuff, but he never wants to hurt my feelings. But he'll say it in a way that like, the message translates. - That's fire. - But yeah, yeah, a burger. - Okay, we're sign to ask for brutal honesty. - A scorpion? - Yeah, because y'all also will cut deep. - Because you guys can just give it so plain and so just like, and it's like guys, really? - I think a lot of my friends have learned, like if they really want the brutal honesty to come to me, but like if you're not in the slightest quite ready for it, go to someone else. Don't come over here 'cause I'm definitely gonna give you the brutal honesty. - That is too funny. Okay, best sign to trust with making group plans. I know who this could be in my mind. - Group plans. It's definitely not a Libra. I will say that one of my best friends is Libra and he. - The shade of it all. I mean, I would say a scorpion is really good at having everything together. - Yeah. - I would say a burger also because you guys have all of the butter in the room. - Capricorns don't get a lot of love here, but they're pretty good. - Really? - You don't think that. - I don't have a lot of Capricorns around me. And the ones that I do, I don't think I'm a good to them for group plans. Sorry, Capricorns, I tried to get you both up in there. We're sign to have as your assistant. - Oh, a Libra. - I had that once. I didn't know how to go there. (laughing) They're just too indecisive. They are so indecisive. My best friend will go to the shop and it will be as simple as picking a cereal. And he'll be in there for 15 minutes. I'm like, it's not rocket science, just pick something. It's like, well, if I don't feel like eating this tomorrow, then you don't eat it tomorrow. - Yeah, it's too indecisive. - So get out of the vibe and get in the real. - Yeah. - They're signed to read the role. - That's a good question. That's a couple signs, I think. Who best sign to read the room? This is probably gonna be bias again, but I'm gonna say a Scorpio. - Ooh. - I think we read the read rooms pretty well. - I think that Scorpio's do read rooms pretty well. If there is somebody else that I would say read the room, I would say an Aquarius. - Really? - They always be in sneaky somewhere. - Oh, for sure. - You know. - They always, yeah, we know. Y'all know we know, we know. Y'all, everybody know that's what y'all be on. - They definitely are sneaky, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - They love doing that. Okay. Oh, worst sign to have in your corner during a fight. - Worst sign. - Worst sign. It depends on what kind of fight. - Yeah, it does. - Physical. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It does depend, maybe a cancer. Just because they are so, they are loyal. Don't get me wrong, they are loyal. But I just feel like they're so loving and so like peacemaker-ish. The reason why I would actually say they be good is because they, with that mouthpiece. - You think so? - They are lethal. - Okay. - They're like a Lazarif tongue. They will literally cut you to the core. - Okay. - But if it's a fist fight. - Yeah. - I might want areas up in there. - That's what I was thinking more of. Yeah, areas, you know that. - Yeah. - Why is this the move? (laughing) Okay, just two more. Okay, so sign most likely to survive a zombie apocalypse. - Ooh. It's definitely not a Scorpio, I'll tell you that. - Might not be a Virgo either, 'cause you guys are, maybe as Sagittarius? - Excellent choice. - Yeah, I think as Sagittarius. - Because they're going to use everything they have to get it done. They're going to be strong when they need to be, they're going to be funny when they need to be, they're going to go internal with it. Like they have a lot of reins, Sagittarius. - Yeah, they're very layered, I will say that. Both of my parents are Sagittarius. - I'm a Sagimool. - Yeah. So last one, sign most likely to get killed first. - I know exactly who this is. - In the apocalypse. I know exactly, it's not the tip of my way to she goes. - I'm scared now. - Girl, I know exactly who this is. - Ooh. - Because they just walking around somewhere being cute. - What sign is that? - Taurus. - 'Cause that's all you're doing. (laughing) - Walking around somewhere, looking sexy and cute, without even trying. - That's funny, that's funny. - That's what them Taurus is mean. Think about every Taurus you know. They somewhere being cute. And they ain't saying too much. They just say, "Oh, hmm." - And they're out of here and in the apocalypse. I don't know, I think I know a few Taurus's that might, they might not be the first to go. They definitely won't be the lost. They definitely won't be the lost one standing. But I don't know, I feel like, I feel like I would go more with a Libra. - Mmm, the Libras, yeah, the Libras, 'cause they over there with the scales somewhere. - Yeah, they can't decide what to do. - I can't teach them. - Next thing you know, done. - Wow. - Yeah. - This was good. - Yeah, that was a fun game. - Well, thank you so much. I think I was seriously, I've had a ball with you, and she's so great to have you on the show. - Thank you. (laughing) (upbeat music) - All right, y'all, that conversation with Ella was everything. She is such a good time. Hearing her talk about her music, her family, and the choices she's making right now felt real in the best way. Grounded, honest, and intentional. She's never compromising herself for anyone. - And none of us should. - So wherever you are in your own life, make decisions that feel true to you, and ignore the rest. I know I do. See y'all next time. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. ♪ Baby, this is Kiki ♪ ♪ Baby, this is Kiki Palmer, yeah ♪