eGirl Capital ft. Molly, Emily, and Feir

(upbeat music) Yo, my yons. Looming wastes, D-Gens and Aves. It's your host, Rogatachi. Here with another episode of the Crypto Podcast, so mind-bending. Albert Einstein rose from the grave and came back to life solely to be able to take a listen to this every week. And let me tell you, I am so, so, so excited for the episode we have coming today. Not only are these some of the smartest minds in the space, but they are objectively some of the best people on CT, always mixing hilarious shiphose with big brain takes and amazing alpha. I'm sure they're gonna be bringing that same energy today. But first, if for some reason you don't know and oh lord, by now you should know, this is the Crypto Podcast hosted by young capital, Goodwill Yunting. I wanna take a quick second to give a shout out to this week's sponsors. Alchemist is one of the most exciting D-5 protocols in the game right now. In just a few clicks, you can get self-repaying loans. 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Each episode, various members of Yunt Capital will hop on to explore your favorite or new favorite crypto NFT-DFI topic. Your Yunts alongside our dope guests create an episode of a podcast you cannot afford to miss. Now today, I've alluded to it a bit, but we have on three guests from E-Gurl Capital. The girls of E-Gurl, if you will. First, we have on Mali, aka Big Magic Down Twitter. And if you don't know Mali, she is one of the most informed and intelligent people in all of crypto, in all things market, DFI, China, tradfies so much more, really amazing. Next, we have on Faire, aka 5-5, the number five, Brown Eyes, who seems to be almost clairvoyant in the future of crypto. As her predictions about crypto, the market, they old unfold one after the other. And of course, me being a smooth brain, I never bet on any of them until it's too late. Last but not least, we have on Mali, aka Automata Mali. I came to no one befriend Mali through Twitter from her just having constantly great takes on all things crypto, markets, DFI, and so much more. She's one of those people where if I see something by her on the timeline, it's the first thing I go to, it's the first thing I read and I'm never disappointed. I am super happy to have you on all of you with me today. Welcome, everyone. - Thank you. Really happy to be here, great to be here. Thank you, I'm very honored to be here. - All right, well, I think let's start with the basics here, can we get into all of your backgrounds? Maybe we can talk about your background before crypto, how you got into crypto, and maybe what you specialize in we're doing most in this space. Maybe we could start with you Mali and then just go down the line here. - Great, so I think I got into crypto around seven years ago. Before crypto, I was a student. I dropped off on university. I went to a meet up in Shanghai, hosted by BTCC and BKAN. I was so Bitcoin magazine, I think. So I met a John Regans from Bitcoin magazine and then we talked a little bit, not long after that, I joined them. I also spent my tuition, I think spent all of it to pour some quotes Bitcoin. 'Cause back then people still think his room is big-scale. That's how I got started. And then we were doing, 'cause back then the whole market, like China, it has the biggest crypto exchange. BTC, Kobe, and OKX, and so on. Also been big. When 2017, the ICO just started to get very high. We also started with Chen B, one of the largest ICO platform back then's code ICOH. But very soon, I think just a few months later we got cracked down by Chinese police department. After Bitcoin magazine, I joined Hashkey Group, I went on blockchain as strategic partnership director. And two or three years ago, I left Hashkey, left to went on blockchain left, and joined Hashkey as the chief marketing officer. And then after Hashkey, I joined spontaneously, joined EGIR Capital and also started my own front code magic ventures, so that's pretty much it. - Wow, that's awesome. So seven years, you're like an OG in the space here. And you said you started with Bitcoin magazine? - Yes, seven years ago, right. - Wow, damn, that is super impressive. I'd be able to survive that long. (laughing) I could barely survive this week. - Yeah, maybe because, 'cause when I was a kid, I read a book by Stephen Levy. It's titled Crypto, "How to Save in the Privacy in Following Government." So I got quite interesting Cryptography. So I started quite a bit Cryptography backing you, Uni. - Gotcha. Okay, wow, that's awesome. Emily, what about you? What's your background here in the space? - Sure, so I guess caveat is I don't wanna like, docks too much either. - Fair enough. - My background is in track by. So I used to do sales at a large financial institution. And how I got into Crypto was that you know, if you work for one of these firms that kind of has their tentacles and like everything, it's actually me hard to kind of treat your personal account. Because to me, you would have to like, submit stuff through compliance and then you have to wait. And it's just really inconvenient. And I think in 2017, this was like, when the ICU group was just starting. And I asked compliance, I was like, hey, you know, like, if I were to buy some of these tokens, like, you know, what I have to declare. And then they said, I guess you have to, but like, we have no idea how we're gonna want to turn that. So I kind of took that as like a yes that I could treat. (laughing) - I love it. - And then, yeah, and I know it's like kind of how I got hooked. Like, yeah, so I kind of went through like the whole bubble. I think like, I guess the last few ones have been kind of reminiscent of what, like, you know, 2017 was kind of like, so like really fun times. And then I guess, yeah, to not dox too much these days, I guess I was just an observer, you know, helping out with like ego capital, just whichever projects are interesting. And I feel like really kind of big on VR lady. So I've been like trying to get everybody to like get their headsets and like join my little group. - I know, I see your VR posts and I get so jealous and it makes me want to buy an Oculus so bad. Like, yeah, I get FOMO from looking at your VR posts. They really do look sick. - Yeah, absolutely. You should get one and join a club. (laughing) - All right, if the market's ever go back up and I stop being dead broke, it's the first day you help out. - Sure, sure. - All right, thank you, Emily. What about you, Fair? - I think I'm probably the most normie out of everybody here. No, no, no, we're nearest OG as everybody in E-girl. I actually only joined crypto really two years ago. Basically right before the March crash. The first time I got in touch with crypto was actually during the 17 hype and then all my friends were getting in and like we were basically getting into the top. (laughing) I saw I think three days of green in my portfolio and then I was right over the course of the year. I basically capitulated at the bottom and then never looked at crypto again. Until I think 2019 when we were seeing, you know, a lot more recovery in the markets and my friends started getting me into it again. And then the March crash happened in 2020. So I was basically, my portfolio got wiped all over again. And then this time I was just like, okay, I have to learn this. I have to know what I'm putting my money into. I just can't afford to keep losing. So during that time was when I became more active in the communities and discord and whatnot and luckily met a few people from E-girl. That's how I got here today. - That's awesome. I love your resilience that like the first time you ape in 2017, immediate crash, second time, you ape in March, immediate COVID crash. But you're like, no, I want more. (laughing) - I think the biggest hot signal in my chat groups. (laughing) - I love it, that's awesome though. All right, well, you guys like have briefly touched on it but I'd like to get deeper into it. I'm curious about your backgrounds in E-girl. How did you guys get linked up with E-girl? What's really the story there? You know, I know the Yunt story, you know, obviously so well at this point and I've said it a million times but I feel like I've never gotten the full E-girl story and I'm curious how you guys all got linked up. - I think for me it was basically what I said earlier. Started with more grassroots community, like discord, telegram. I think I was in some, it was, I don't know if you've heard of Red XBT but I was really active in these like trading discord groups because I wanted to learn how to trade back then. And people like Loondard or CL, they would occasionally appear in some of these bigger discord groups just to randomly shoot the shit or something like that. And then eventually just started talking more and more and all became friends and that's how they asked me to join. And back then I think I was probably one of the second or third last members to join and that was right before we actually took on our first project as E-girl. So when I first joined, it was just like a DJing group chat of friends just, you know, randomly like talking about what we're aping and stuff like that. And then right after I joined we actually became a real fun. - That's awesome. So you got to write right before the cutoff. - Yeah, the cusp. - That's dope, that's dope. What about you Emily? - Right, so I'm probably of this group, I'm like the newest and the way, you know, I kind of say like I was like adopted. I was in Fanboy Capital and at that time we were like, really into MeeV and stuff. And Fanboy kind of put out this piece. Because at that time E-girl was like talking about re-arguing Ethereum and stuff. Then I put out this piece and I think it was from that that CL found me. Yeah, and then we started talking and I got added to the group. So I think in terms of like history, that probably like Molly will be able to give the most context here. - Gotcha. That's really cool though that you just, you know, you drop one piece and there's just so big brain that they're like, we need their drafter, pull her up. You're on the team now. It's really cool. Molly, give us all the alpha here. - I call them specifically. I remember the group was just started like two, three day after that. Everyone, like everyone, I know on Twitter was talking about E-girl Capital. So I think it posed something and asked what the hell is E-girl Capital. And then loomed that, because I've been talking with loomed giants here for quite a while before the E-girl Capital. And they're so like, they explained it to me. And then I think I'm not sure who who it was, but we were just talking Alex of our telegram and then mentioned about E-girl Capital. And then this will animate into it. Back then it was like still just a random chat group then. I call them but it was Eva or me joined E-girl first. I remember asked two was the only two girls in the group back then. And then just one, I think one day you just become, all of some things become my series. VentureFound and then we registered as a Lego entity, a higher lawyer and starts to invest different deals and then we have for, and also Emily and then everyone else is pretty exciting and cool. - Yeah, no, that is awesome. And yeah, I wanna jump off that alone more and it sounds familiar to me, for sure, 'cause Yunt has such a similar story where, you know, we all kind of just met in the Alchemist Discord and we were just ship hosting, you know, all day together and sharing Alpha. And then at some point like we were talking about a project where we really couldn't talk about it in public because we didn't have the nicest things to say about it and the guy was also in the chat. And so we just like spun off and created our own discord and then started like shit posting our way into becoming a real VC. And it feels like E-girl really set the framework for that sort of thing in, you know, that sort of crypto-native and non VC funds who like us have been kind of built since. So I'm curious, can you get into more of like how you guys are organized? Do you talk about you guys are now like a legal entity? I'm also curious, what are your like main goals in crypto? It looks like as individual members, you have like projects of your own. Yet you also like collab and do seed investment share Alpha. Yeah, so Molly, maybe you want to like take this here and then if anyone else has comments, they can, you know, jump in if they want. - Yeah, of course. So I think we start off quite organized at the beginning as well because there was like 14 or 15 of us at the beginning and we are all locating different countries and places and have different working different times. So it was really hard for us to put a, how do you call it, completely call or group call. So it was really hard to manage in having a lot of people at the same time. And I also, while the register thing, you know, because you need all the legal documents to everyone, sort of like provided the legal documents and everything. And it was, that part is also hard to manage in because you have to collect from everyone else. But we, I think we managed to do that, but just a little bit messy and hard in the beginning. So we register, I think we register as a BVI offshore entity and then, 'cause just as most of VCE and crypto, actually we are very hands on the project we are invested because we are, we have a lot of people who is doing, like we have a developer in the group and also a trader and, like everyone, so they have different specialties and are able to help the project in different perspective. And also, since we are in different regions, they also can help them to enter different original markets. So that's pretty much what we do for the project that we invested. And also we're pretty flexible, but I think our goal is to invest on the project that we really have strong conviction and the help to build ways them. - I think if I could just add to that, I think probably one thing that's, like, different about e-girls that, like, majority of the members are sort of influencers in their own right. I think if you see, like, for most VCEs, it tends to be like, you know, maybe they have a couple of people that are like more prominent. But I think for e-girl, like, you know, everyone kind of has, you know, their own audience. So we've kind of also started this system where we're assigning, like, ICs to each of the portfolio companies. So I say, you know, if we have, like, a project that we've invested and then there are, like, two people assigned to that and they kind of stay on top of, like, what's happening. And, you know, like, like, the other's known, like, sometimes we need the more coordination in terms of, like, a push. So, yeah, I think that's, that's kind of, like, different about e-girl as compared to, like, probably, like, other VCs. - Yeah, adding on to what Emily was saying, I think, so we basically operate more, like, a down than maybe as traditional structured VC. Everybody's more or less equal and we all have fair share and fair say in each project. So we can vote on things we want to do, vote on, which projects we want to do. How, you know, who gets to be the point of contact for which project, how these things run. And I think we try to have, like, couple eggs in each basket, sort of, in terms of our investments. We like to see innovation in different areas of, you know, crypto, say, DeFi, gaming, art, et cetera. So anything that we truly feel like is innovative or, like, really cool in that one area, we try to, you know, at least have one or two investments in there. - Right, I got you. We do the same things at young. So it's really cool to hear you guys say that. But I'm curious when you get pitched a project, you guys all talked about how you want to have conviction in the project. I'm curious what makes you decide to either work with the project, invest in them. What are the things you really look for in each girl and in what ways are you looking to, like, invest in and develop the space with the projects you partner with? - For me personally, I'm both a sound DeFi. I'm particularly interested in decentralized stablecoins. I think that's part of what I'll come back to doing, also, Abarak Tadaba is doing, and Terra too. And that's, 'cause I think now there's like, three curve, how do you call it? Three curve, USDT, USDC, and I, there to rely on centralized stablecoin, which I think could probably be a potential risk for DeFi. So that's why I'm pretty interesting, decentralized stablecoin space. - Yeah, I think there isn't a focus for say, but I think if you look at like the ego members, like everybody has different areas of specialty. So if you look at, like, say, for example, DeFi, you know, it would be DevOps, Scooby, the Gen Spartan, and then like on the training site, probably like, you know, more CL, Jeff, and then you have NFTs, which would be like, CL, LoomDart. Like, so everybody has their area of expertise. And so typically, there's a lot of dew flow that the team just comes across. So, usually they would share in the group, and like the ones that have more expertise in that field, would typically like comment on like, whether or not they think it's a good deal. Yeah, I think, and then at that point, then there's all like a vote. And if majority actually wants to proceed with it, then, then, you know, we would, we would, you know, go ahead with that. But I would say that like, overall, I think the investments have been very white ranging and very, and like Leo, so there have been like, some deals that, you know, are like, sometimes even outside of crypto. So yeah, that's kind of how, how, like, the process is. Yeah, I don't have too much to add. I think what Emily said is pretty much that on. I guess the way I see it is that I'm not such a big brain, and I know there's much more smarter people than me. So, I rely on those people to kind of like, show me what they think is good, and I tend to trust their capabilities and their assessments. So within e-girl, I think we show each other on the things that we think are really good or hyped. And then each person does their own research, and then we kind of vote on things, and discuss it internally, and that's how usually it works. That's hilarious that you see that, because I'm the same way in a lot of things where, you know, there's, everyone in Yun has like, it's really smart on certain things, and it's just like, I don't have the time or ability or even desire to kind of keep up with it all. So, you know, Meta will show me an NFT, and it's just like, okay, I go buy because, you know, I like trust them, and they're gonna be right, you know, it's a smart way to do things, and it's like a blessing to have that sort of community where when they kind of tell you something, it's an easy yes, like eight first due research later. So that's really cool. I do wanna switch gears here to DeFi. I'm curious to get your thoughts on how things have been progressing and changing in this space. We've seen the rise recently of so-called DeFi 2.0 protocols. We've had the curve wars going on. Now the mess, funding of Olympus Dow, and so much more happening in just the last couple of months, I'm curious about what are your thoughts on the state of DeFi right now? What are some of the most surprising things seen last year? And really, what exciting things do you think are coming? - Sure, so I think probably the last couple of days is kind of like, you know, been about DeFi 2.0 and how that's not working so great. So I think that like, and just probably a point that's been echoed by a lot of people, which is that, you know, the hasn't really sort of been a lot of innovation in DeFi. And you're kind of like looking for the next products. So I think one thing that I think was interesting about potentially like Olympus and all of the forts was this concept of like, you know, what is fair value that's being held in the treasury. And you know, that's a concept that people have been asking questions about, but you know, given the state of Olympus and all the forts. And I feel that perhaps, you know, in the next iteration or the next wave, people might want to look for, you know, sources of yellow that are a bit more sustainable. So I think like, you know, options and structured products, like those have been promoted like quite heavily, you know, as a theme for this year. But personally, like, I think one type of structured product I'm actually quite bullish on, is the idea of hash power swaps. So the ability to like, buy into like block production. So there's a project that's doing that. Yeah, I sort of think that perhaps, you know, when the market is not doing that great, you know, people would probably want sources of yellow that, you know, are not completely reliant on like rebasing emissions. And maybe even towards the next step, like, you know, there, yeah, they may also sort of realize that there's like more risk in some of like, you know, these other products. I personally think that we're still in the experimental stages. So it's like you said, people are not super satisfied with the innovation or the progress. And you see these bubbles pop up and, you know, hives happening and then people move on to the next best thing. So I think it's not something we'll see right away that we'll have a solution to. And before, you know, we do find a permanent solution, I think we'll continue to have more of these like, you know, bubbles of like new innovation that comes and then just maybe dice out after a while. So I think it's important for, you know, projects to find ways to better manage their liquidity, to better, you know, like use their resources and treasury. Until then, I personally think DeFi is a lot more testing ground. I have a limit to add down the curveable curveable. I think every since the bribe curve went alive. And as the functions get more mature, convex and curves become a liquidity renting market. So if you buy CVX and curves, then basically you are buying cheap liquidity. Most specifically cheap liquidity is proxy. You know, the reason people buy the proxy for liquidity is like, first you can, you can, you can run it out through bribe to earn the reward, just like what keep adults currently doing. I think cycling is, you can't build your own liquidity instead of just renting it as well as spells doing. So I think those are pretty cool. And then there will be more. I think the curve was only get heated in the future. - Interesting. So you think the curve wars are gonna be even bigger narrative in 2022? - Oh yeah, definitely. - Oh shit, okay. - All right, I got to pick a side and get my weapon ready. - Yeah, but CVX have better inflation curves than curve phase health. - Right, is that alpha? Are you saying I should long CVX right now? - I don't know, the buck is, it seems go down tremendously bad. So. (laughing) - Yes, it seems like a leverage beta play on curve. So it works both ways, like on the me out. And then we don't. - It's a great, it's great to buy or have CVX, if you are building your liquidity. And also you can, you can't run out and you can't like a lot of rewards. So I think it's definitely worth it to have. And then it has better inflation curve than curve itself. So I think if you wanna have some exposures on the curve wall, then I think CVX probably is better choice than curve itself. - Yeah, one thing that I keep thinking about is so that like, you know, in the bear market, like nobody really, I mean, in a certain way, I think in the last few days, like people have kind of realized that it's not about like the 10,000% like APY. You know, like if the value of the token, like say it goes down like 50%. Then it's, it's almost kind of like irrelevant. How much the APY actually is. And interestingly, I think like people probably one sources of yield and it can be like super low. So like perhaps even like, you know, East 2.0, you know, like sending it and just getting 5% like to them that could be an appealing play as opposed to like, you know, rebasing tokens. So I kind of kind of keep thinking back to like, you know, if it was really, if it's really gonna be a bear market, then what would people likely allocate to? So there's an exercise that I've just kind of like been running through. - Well, if if the market really started, I think in Spartan, G Spartan, you made a great demonstration of what? Just go allocate all your assets and stable and then use it to like from the new year like stable yield. - Yeah, stable, it might spunking all the time, hi. - You guys dropped the real alpha. Is he all in stables or is it just a meme? Can we wants him for all? Let the truth be out there. - So we can't comment on that. (laughing) - Oh my God. No, no, I totally agree with what you're saying, Emily. And Seth, one of our members has been banging the strum for a while that like the APY of Gov Tokens is deceiving because in a bull market, yeah, sure, it's great. But in a bear, when those tokens go to basically zero, you know, farming and dumping them and getting a perceived APY isn't really the same thing. So I am really interested in projects that can a, like build a different source of yield that doesn't rely on just Gov Token number go up where, you know, not being zero. So I think that will be an interesting space to watch moving forward. - Yeah, really thinking there's not a lot of options, right? So, you know, like if to point, you can like, you can like, send it in and then you can get like, five percent thereabouts and you can sell volatility. It's just like, you know, like the ribbon and you know, they're like quite a number of all these like ribbon forests on every other chain. But essentially like what you're doing is like, you know, potentially you sell it upside and then you collect yield. And then there's upcoming, there's things like hash power swaps. So you're like buying block production. But like apart from that, I think there's, yeah, there's not, there's all of you, there's not that many ways to generate yield. - Right, right, no, it is really interesting. Now, I want to switch to another narrative that's been really persuasive, excuse me, been really pervasive all year and is still is this year, which is the Ethereum versus other chains debate. I'm curious your thoughts as to what the future of DeFi on block chains looks like. Is it mostly L2s like arbitral optimism ZKs when those drop or do we jump from chain to chain, not really caring what native chain we're working on? - I think I'm a little bit biased since I actually just started working with that layer zero. So obviously my outlook for the future is definitely multi on me chain, I guess you would call it. I don't know if you guys saw the whole, the up-only episode yesterday. I think Vatel talks about how these layer 2s are eventually going to get much cheaper with fees and whatnot and eventually it will be just as cheapest, like another layer one, something like phantom or avat's right now. So I definitely think this year we will see a lot more innovation and a lot more liquidity flowing into L2s as more projects built on them. But I definitely also think that like a handful of that ones will do decent, you know, in garnering our community. And eventually I think it'll be a multi-chain or on me chain society where, you know, everybody can jump from one chain to another with ease, you know, just based on these frontends that are integrated onto these, you know, on me chain bridges. And it should be very easy for people to not just trade swap but like even let's say governance or, you know, anything you can think of. I definitely think that as a user, why would I choose if I could use it all, right? If I could go from like chaining to chaining with a click of a button, you know, there's nothing to keep me from staying on one chain. And I think protocols recognize this, so which is why, you know, they're starting to support multiple chains at a time. - Yes. And then I think most users will defy currently speculators and speculators on mercenaries. All it cares about is capital efficiency and the yield chasing the yield. So as long as they can get like higher rewards and yield different chain, they would definitely go for it. - To follow up that, how would you see a switch from mercenaries to just more loyal users? Do you think that is something that can happen soon or is that a long term thing where, you know, retail has to come in and just use these products for the sake of the products? - I think that might take a little bit while, 'cause now you can see, I mean, in certain Asian country, there's like a lot of crypto users for like years. You can tell by the training volume, you know, the top three change, there's really quite a lot like retail user, but the proportion for them to use defy protocol is very small. That's why at BSE was kicked off in the very beginning because it's easier and cheaper for them to interpret still. There's like really still big portions of retail user haven't used it. So I think for DeFi to gain a real lawyer and organic with our user, they're still quite sometimes. - Yeah, I was quite shocked myself. I think DeFi Lama was the one that posted this a while ago and they're like 60,000 different token pairs on Uniswap. But there's like 600,000 different token pairs on BSE. They got factor of 10. I mean, there was like, to be with quite a mind-blowing number. - That's the same. - Yeah, and it's like, I guess, you know, we're all kind of in all the little bubbles, but you know, in our English-speaking CT bubble, like, not a lot of people talk about BSE and like what's on BSE, but it's like a whole new world on there. And you know, I guess in terms of like transaction count, volumes, you know, all of those metrics then, you know, like BSE is just really far ahead. - Yeah, 'cause it's there in DeFi is more for like, most sophisticated investors. Most, I think the first few waves of BSE, DeFi users and meaning super retail user phone, a certain Asian country. But I think a lot of retailers are actually less mercenary in a sense. If they don't know too much about something, I think they actually, because of lack of information, they tend to be more loyal and stick to one community. So I think with more usage, you know, in the upcoming years, you get a lot more loyal community members, and that's how each chain will build. - And I feel probably on Ethereum is a bit more sticky because it's expensive, right? Like even if you want that to un-stick, like, actually cost quite a lot of money. So that in itself, it's a vote. And also, I also think the barriers for like, retail user tainter is like, those DeFi protocols so hard to use, 'cause it's not like really simple. Like, you just need to click few buttons. Like, you actually need to think about like, how to crash your money to different chains or how to interact with a protocol. If they can make a simple, simple, simple, full, we told I think that would be easier for them to adapt it to. - Oh, I just want to add here that this is where a layer zero comes in. (laughing) - Quick shill, quick shill, now. - Yeah, quick shill. (laughing) - Allow me to shill my bags for a second. - I don't have any bags yet because I think I wanted the e-girls for us to invest in layer zero, but their current rounds are actually quite oversubbed. - But I definitely believe in the technology, not even just layer zero, but I definitely think layer zero is one of the best, but I believe in like army chain. So I definitely think. - Which is really releasing this episode until we managed to actually get an application. (laughing) - Wait, wait, you gotta get y'all in here too now. Come on. (laughing) - Okay, DM me afterwards. (laughing) - Yes. All right, awesome, awesome. Well, that was a pretty productive discussion. (laughing) I wanna switch gears again here. This is a probably Emily specific question here. I know you do a lot of work in the MEV space. A space only you in drug understand. I'm 100% sure no one else understands a single goddamn thing about MEV. It's way too big brained. But can you briefly dumb it down for us as to like, what MEV is and why it's important? I'm curious if you also seeing it getting more or less important as crypto develops? - Sure, so I'm not completely sure why people think I gotta do MEV, but I think it was because of that like, that one piece, you know, it's like Femboy, Capazole, really. But to explain it, so MEV stands for a minor extractable value. I think they're trying to rebrand it to a maximal extractable value. But if I had to kind of explain it, it would just be queue priority. So, you know, transactions in the blockchain, they're sent to the mempool and anyone can essentially see like, what's going to happen because it's in the mempool before miners pick it up to include in a block. So I see all about queue priority is this like, if you see that there's an opportunity like, an arbitrage opportunity, and then you can try to basically front run that by paying a bribe to the miner. So you can actually capture that for yourself. So it's really like, you know, profit opportunities that you can get by having priority or, you know, like requesting that transactions be ordered in a certain manner. And it can be anything. I think probably the ones that people are most familiar with are things like, you know, like arbitrage, you'll see. You know, when you swap like, after there's a big treat, someone has to be seen coming and kind of move the pool back in relation to like what is trading at externally, you know, and then there's like things like liquidations, I guess people are more familiar with. But when I talk about like queue priority, it can be anything like, you know, like say, like Irene Dow, like, there's like a hot NFT mint. - Oh, I know Irene Dow. - Absolutely. So like, you know, like, what would be the NFTs, sorry, the MEV in this specific instance. So, you know, you could basically, you see that there's something that potentially a lot of people would want. And so you would basically bribe to like mint all of the Irene NFTs, and you would put it on like, open sea and try and flip it for profit, like before anybody else has a chance to mint. So yeah, it's about priority and transactions. And, you know, in some specific cases, you just want it in a specific order, such that you can capture their profit for yourself. As for how I think it will kind of develop. So I think last week, like the big news was that Citadel for the first time is accepting external investment. And you know, paradigm and Sequoia are already investors. And I think in the press release, like we said, that like, you know, Citadel would be kind of entering the markets. So yeah, I think you can probably expect that like competition is going to amp up a lot in, you know, these sort of like opportunities where, you know, at any sort of circumstance where so long as it's like positive EV to do something, then, you know, you can expect that competition for that is going to amp up significantly. OK, I got you. That was a good explainer, even a smooth brain like me could keep up and understand with that. Yeah, so like, if it was like a, you know, like a hot NFD mint, then like, you know, maybe now there is like, you know, more opportunity and maybe sometimes you're up at the right time zone and all that, but maybe, you know, going forward, they will all have like really advanced spots that like monitoring to there for any sort of possible mentioned. So like before you even get to it, it would all have been minted. And it would like be open to you for like one each each before you can react. Oh, damn, that's that's scary. It's a scary future where I can't mint my Irene Dow and FTs. Thank you, thank you. I mentioned this before the episode even started. I'm actually waiting on a callback from Wendy's. I sent them my resume last night. I'm praying that they give me an interview. So if I get a call from them at any time, I'm going to have to end the episode early. But I mean, I'm not really alone here either. That seems to be the state of the market right now. We have basically done a double bubble down to a log crab. And then we gigadumped last night. I was talking to them in chat as we were gigadumping. And it's really been an interesting cycle where cycles, depending on how you want to look at it. I'm curious, how do you all see the markets today? Where are we going forward in maybe the short and long term? We can start with you fair and then work our way up. I don't think I'm the best analyst type of person here. So I usually refer to smarter people for those. But I'm definitely long term bullish. I don't know about now. I think the consensus was that we either hold the support here or it's going to get a little bit scary. So right now, it seems a little bit scary. But long term wise, I'm definitely bullish. I mean, I assume that's why we're all here in this market. And I'm sure people are starting to see the signs of adoption with this run. There's so many traditional companies and banks now trying to get to work with blockchain or investing crypto. So I think the consensus is that at least from the people that I've talked to, maybe we'll get-- sorry, it's a brown noise-- maybe we'll get actually shorter bear years. Even if we're in a bear market, it might not last. Like 2018 type of three-year bear market type of situation. So hopefully the liquidations come fast, and we all get the pain over with soon. So should I do the whole micro-spew? Yeah, give it all to us, please. I think it's like-- usually everyone talks about the correlation between crypto markets and the tech site of things. So like ARC, ARC invests like Eric Hikey. They're a flagship ETF. I would say it's a pretty strong correlation between the crypto markets and what we call liver beta. And I guess the concern this year is that with inflation kind of high, that the Fed has to hike and hikes up bad, because risk assets all take a hit. So I think that's kind of the main thing that's at play. I think one thing for me that it's a little bit hard to reconciles also that you see all these massive funds being raised, right? So I can't remember. But I think like Anderson Horowitz, like a wall ago, was a 1.5 or 2 billion fund. And then paradigm is 2.5 billion. And I saw I think was two days ago that Anderson Horowitz was freezing another one, which is 4.5 billion. And only that you're really seeing-- I think we're at that point where they say Bitcoin is Lindy, that a lot of the serious money is either-- well, I guess prop capital in some ways is really in crypto. And I would say that this whole Citadel news in a way it was also confirmation that a lot of these large players are looking at crypto as an asset class. So yeah, I think I agree with with fair in the sense that even if this were going to be a fair market, it wouldn't kind of be like the 2018 to 2020 three-year stretch just because there's just way more interest. And I think even if let's say it goes sideways, there's going to be pockets that will do well. Yeah, so like I said, I was also kind of thinking about this exercise, right? Let's say if you were institutional or larger money coming into this space, how would you actually allocate? I think a lot of them are probably still trying to make that shift, whether or not you want to touch tokens and when it be on equity side and all of that. But yeah, it's just kind of hard to see environment where all these huge funds are being raised and it's coming into the market. But at the same time, the Fed is hiking. So yeah, I feel that even if you do get a fair market, I think there's still pockets that will do okay. And maybe that kind of manifests itself more on the equity valuations like for these crypto companies than in tokens. But yeah, I don't think we're going to see a prolonged fair market. All those funds are just throwing their money into trash game five projects that have a bajillion that are going to have billions of FDV. So we're not going to see any of that. I'm sorry to tell you Emily. - This is a bit problematic as well because like I think with all those huge funds raised, like expectation was potentially that they would also be bidding some of their majors or buying some of like, you know, these tokens are out there. So you have to like trickle down the fact, right? Say, you know, it's like the coin that needs to go up then like, you know, everything else kind of like goes up because, you know, of that effect. But, you know, instead we've seen like kind of very big ticket investments into very specific companies, right? So we didn't quite get that effect. So I think the way in which, you know, all these huge funds are planning to spend their stash is something to watch. Yeah, and who knows, maybe they'll just put it into like, they'll invest in equity and they don't buy any tokens. - Oh, please buy my bags, I need it. - No, that's really interesting. And I did want to get your take really quickly before we move on to Molly about the inflation scene because I know you do have that track five background. What could this, these levels of like unprecedented really inflation, most of it, which seems to be going towards billionaires and the already super wealthy people, I'm curious what from a macro side, do you think this type of unprecedented inflation could kind of lead to or what we could see from it? - Oh, sure. So like the problem now is I think US inflation is kind of running in the six, seven percent range. And you know, we've had like prolonged, like, you know, post 2008, industries have been artificially kept low. And then, you know, you've had like asset inflation, but you haven't actually seen like, so you've had asset inflation in the form of like, you know, say your S&P 500, like going out, it's been like up only since 2008, but in terms of like, you know, we're talking about like CPI inflation, that's kind of really kicked in in the last like one year, one year plus. And so this whole conversation about like, why the Fed has to hype now is because like, inflation is at seven percent in one way in which you try and counter the inflation is by raising interest rates. And rising interest rates are bad for any sort of like, risk assets, like this counter cash flow and all that stuff. So I think, I think like, the problem now is that like, you know, like the average person is struggling with like, you know, raising like rising costs of like, electricity, food and, you know, those are also very fundamental issues, you know, which is why I guess like, you know, that the Fed is like, taking a much more like hockey stands than it would. But yeah, it's actually, it's actually pretty like, roughly see, I think it right now in the UK, they're saying that like, you know, when they have these like, energy caps, when that rolls off, they're expecting that like the number of households that kind of fought their energy bills is going to like quadruple or something. And that historically has never been, you know, good. Like when you have like, like people kind of being unable to afford daily things. - Yeah, no, for sure. That's crazy quadruple. - Jesus. - Yeah. - Going back to the crypto market. So you can speak to the regular macro as well. Molly, what are your thoughts here? Please give me some hope in them. - I, I'm very bullish, like super bullish. - Yeah. - Yes. - Play for real. Guys, you know, I've been, I've been through a few cycles. So the market, I mean, back in 2015 and 2016, the market is so small and competitive, then it's just much, much, much more bigger. So then you can actually see there's like more people adopted and then there's more application. So yeah, definitely a long-term bullish. - I'm curious 'cause you talk a lot about DeFi. Are you a DeFi bull as well? Do you see DeFi like kind of 1.0 as they've been memed protocols like making a comeback? What do you, what do you see around the DeFi landscape in terms of their tokens? - I'm not sure about price-wise, but yeah, but you can tell by like some old DeFi protocol, DeFi at 1.0, even though the price didn't go back to the, oh, time high, they, they business already back to like, where they, they pick the pick levels. I think on the, and that side, it's definitely bullish, but who knows about a price, like most of the time, the market was driving about like a rational investor. So it's really hard to. - Got you, got you. I want to talk about something topical now. We've briefly mentioned it so far already, but if there's just kind of one topic on CT, people can't stop talking about right now. It's got to be Irene Dow and all this Simp Dow, how does that have popped up after it? And actually, being able to see, again, like I mentioned, being able to see into the future, some shit, I don't know how you do it. Fair, this was something that you predicted, what was it like at the end of last year? I'm curious, what are all your thoughts on these new Simp Dow's? Are they a lasting trend? Are they going to die out as quickly as they pop up? Also, can you give me some alpha? Are we going to see a Molly, Emily, or Fair Dow anytime soon? Am I going to get whitelisted? What's the deal? (laughing) - I don't know, we're going to see any, oh, I can't speak for others, but at least there's no Fair Dow anytime soon, I don't think. (laughing) I was actually super surprised at how quickly this whole Irene Dow or Simp Dow phenomenon appeared after we published our thesis, 'cause I think we mostly wrote our thesis either end of last year or like the very first couple days, in 2022, and I predicted that things like this would happen, but I didn't predict it in the way of Dow's. I mean, I think like Simping has always been a trend and always will be in the space, and I was starting to see trends within even like my normie, quote unquote circles, just a lot of like IG influencers, or how TikTok influencers became a phenomenon like last year. So I would see a lot of people from normie circles trying to leverage, either NFTs or streaming, something like that, to find more ways to make money. So that's why I had this prediction. And especially now with how big people are on the metaverse, it just seemed to me that it would only be a matter of time before streamers and influencers took these mediums to harvest their simp power, especially even within e-girl, like how much we see people like CL just invest in streamers. Like he sponsored quite a few, and then he's invested in a lot of artists as well. And a lot of these artists that don't deal with NFTs traditionally are now starting to come into the space. And some of them I see on IG are huge influencers, and not only are they publishing their art, but they would always attach it with a really pretty photo of themselves, something like that just to market themselves a bit more, right? So I think that's where I see the trend going. I definitely think that with the advancement of the metaverse, you'll start to see a lot more kind of only fans type things, or streamers trying to find ways to market themselves. Although I'm not sure the idea of a simp down will be here this day per se. I think people would just find new ways to harvest the simp power. And just thanks me way too fast. So I don't know if any specific thing will have lasting power so far. - I want to say harvest the simp power is my new favorite phrase ever. (laughing) - Yeah, I feel free to quote me on that. - Oh, I love it. What about you guys? - Well, I think it's pretty interesting and definitely a bubble. I'm not sure what Iris exactly doing, but I remember at first she was introduced as a female executive for Crypto Project. And later on she posts quite a lot of content which spare like amplify object by humans, which I think it might a little bit off-truck because she got introduced to the community as ACMO instead of knowing her as influencers. So I think that might bring some bad influence to the industry and probably make possibly some bad effect. - Interesting. So you're saying because she was kind of presented as a more formal or official worker in the industry that now this pivot could be a little strange. - Yes. - Yeah, sure, yeah, sure. - I think on one hand I'm all for free markets. Like we were just lamenting earlier about how the world and I'll say this is like amplified in Crypto. There's like a capital allocation problem. And you know, you can kind of say, oh hey, you know, there's this like great language is like NFTs and we should be rewarding creators that do good work. But then what happened was that we had like ether rocks and you know, you in a way, you can't yell at people and say like, oh hey, you know, I think you shouldn't be allowed to spend your money like in this way, right? Like you can go like yell at them, but like it's not going to work and like people can do what they do and it's, it's absolutely a free market and in a way probably if you're kind of looking at Crypto and saying like, you know, we should be rewarding your right creators. It's probably the wrong crowd as well. To be sending that message, I feel. But yeah, you know, like we have like better people selling NFTs, yeah, you know, maybe but then they also kind of have to up their marketing to be able to capture the attention of the crowd. - You know, you bring up ether rocks and I was really mad the first time. I heard that people were spending like ridiculous amount of money on these ether rocks, but I've also come to the kind of conclusion about the markets which I is both helpful for my sanity and I also like that like there is, we've like monetized memes and we've monetized like cultural things we find culturally funny, which I like for humanity. And I'm sure this isn't really the first time we've done this, but it's more obvious, I think with the internet and now. And I actually really like that. There's a part of me that really likes that we're now like putting a monetary value on silliness. I kind of appreciate that. - I think the gens part of it is really great, great tweet. It was like, I think like, you know, it was this whole like, you know, Web 3 bringing power to the creators. And then you look at the NFTs. It's like Gonzali and Irene face Meshov. (laughing) - That one was hilarious. - That is your end product. Like you're like part of the creator. - Yeah, I mean, you know, you can get, what's the JZ line? You can pay for school, but you can't buy class. You know, that's what I think. - We're also getting to that age of postmodern art. So it's, you know, self-expression. That's minus one. - Yeah, this is post, post, postmodern art. (laughing) - To go on a more serious note for a second. It very much looks and feels like crypto is a male dominated space right now in terms of numbers and in terms of the amount of men compared to women. I'm curious if you could all talk about what it's like being a woman in crypto. What possible challenges or advantages does it provide? And besides any sort of like, symptom stuff. And what would you guys like to see happen for the space to become better and more inclusive for women in the future? (laughing) - Am I, am I sort of going back to the Irene things? I'm not, I was like, it's not about like, so this kind of like object by a female rose in a crypto project. It's kind of starting in China, I think. Back then, there was like a lot of like, centralized exchange including Hobie, not like OKX and Binance. They are higher or some female, like young attractive female rose to take the rose as business development or account management rose for them. It's somehow, 'cause you know, a lot of like early, some of like crypto users in crypto investors not will educate it or they are. But they use those young and so like attractive female to play as business development and account management rose. And so like developer culture that's object by, female in this space. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure about in China for sure. There's like quite a lot. I like this, especially when Binance higher, a young, the CMO, I think the CMO post, probably could post it. See, she won a higher, a girl who has big boobs in a pretty face, who was born like after 2000, and it's so like, already. - That was the public posting? - Yeah, that was probably post. I say I'll be very happy. I mean, guys, I really can't reflect on how bad this culture is. So, and me myself, like I'm not really active in social personality. I probably only meet people once every few months or once a month, like very low frequency. But for, and I only, I don't have proper job experience before I got into crypto. So, for the past seven years, I got, I got like, there's a term for sexual harassment found that crypto people, like who's also working in this industry twice, you happen to mean twice. - Oh, no. - So I really hate that kind of culture. And that's why I really, naturally, I don't like what Aaron Zhao and Kenomi's team were doing before. 'Cause they introduced her as CMO and then pull like, and then she start posting a lot of like, really, like, poetry, like photo and picture who's so like, has like, sexual amplification into it. I think if we endorse that kind of culture, you mix the business environment, like, harder for the female in this industry. I don't know if you know what I mean. - Yeah, no, absolutely. - Wow, that's crazy, though. Yeah, I can definitely understand why having those experiences would bring a really negative light to this sort of thing, for sure. What are your thoughts, Emily? - I guess for me, because I'm a non-in. There are some people I think, it's only been kind of recent that, you know, I've gone on like, some podcasts and some people, like, oh, like, I always thought you were a guy, like, larping as a female online. It's just because, like, it's like, 99% of like, people on CT are guys. But yeah, I think there's clearly a gender diversity issue. Is it hard for women? I think a little bit, like, you almost have to like, you know, be in on the jokes and sometimes, they're not the most appropriate, but you kind of have to, like, laugh it off to fit into the crowd a little bit. But yeah, you know, like, I think, you know, see, if it was like a Fortune 500 company, and they have all these, like, gender diversity quotas and whatnot, so they're like, you know, making a point to, like, stuff their boards with, like, females. And, yeah, you know, like, you know, all of us were available for your gender diversity quota for a fee. For a fee. No, I'm joking, I'm joking. But, yeah, I think it's also, for me, it helps, like, because I'm a non. But yeah, I think, like, for fair and for Molly, you know, they're using their real identities and, like, pictures, and I think that's where it probably gets harder. I definitely agree with the girls. And I definitely, from personal experiences, I think it's not been that easy to be a girl in this space, just even coming from, let's say, a perspective, just hanging out between friends. And if it's all boys and a group chatting, or the only girl, they're definitely going to be a lot inside jokes, or the way guys bond is a little bit different. So you're bound to be left out a lot of the times. Over the years, like, it's very obvious to me, just in group chats, and just, you know, talking to people. You see that guys definitely bond better with each other, and therefore naturally provide more alpha for each other. Whereas, as a girl, I think, you really only have two ways to make it in this industry. One is to, quote, unquote, harvest that some power. And the other one is to just do what every guy does, and, you know, be even better, or, you know, the only way for you to get respected as a girl in this space is if you are, you know, beating the guys at their own game. And that's really tough, right, especially for an industry where there's not a lot of women, you know, in the tech or finance backgrounds to come in and, you know, do it better than, you know, most men with that background, right? So I think that it's hard because of the same time that's just the way it is. You can say that might be unfair, but I mean, it's, you just don't have a lot of women in these backgrounds, right? Maybe in banking more so, but let's say, you know, with certain other things. Yeah, I don't know what the solutions are, but I definitely think it's hard for a girl. And, you know, even between, you know, my close friends, you know, guy, a guy friends of mine. Their first assumption is, it's very ironic, because people think it's very easy to be a girl in this space. And they think like, they'll always tell me like, oh, I wish I were a girl. I could just like, you know, post some thirst traps for these like lonely, horny men. And I couldn't make so much money. But at the same time, that's not how you get respect in this space and, or I don't know, that even matters, right? But let's say if you wanted to go in a more, you know, like corporate routes or whatever, right? Yeah, I think there's a lot of issues that are not recognized. And it's ironic because people actually think it's much easier to be a girl in this space. But I think most girls really agree that it's not the case at all. Right. No, I have seen that said. And I didn't agree with that sort of take. And I will say like this is, you know, upsetting for me to hear, not that I didn't think this was the case kind of going in. But I mean, we're building something that's supposed to be decentralized, supposed to be democratized, supposed to be for everyone and, you know, inclusive of everyone. And like, if we're at a point now where half of the population in some way, shape or form doesn't kind of feel comfortable here, where it is struggling to find footing, to me, that's a problem. Like, right, like we're doing something wrong. Like, it's kind of not just about the tech in that sort of sense. So I'm curious, you know, I know fair you spoke to a little bit. Do you guys have any sort of thoughts on what could be improved or what you would like to see to maybe make this space more inclusive moving forward? I actually don't know. And I don't think anybody really has a solution. So like Fortune 500 is all like, hey, you need like, you know, other representations. So, you know, that would be like minorities, that would be like women. And then they have all these things like, oh, you know, we do like pay benchmarks to make sure that, you know, women at the same level get paid the same or, you know, not too far behind men. And then you have like HR departments where you can like, I'll complete two. Like I saw on Twitter, like someone was joking about it the other day. I don't know. And I guess like, yeah, in crypto, it's like, it's not even like 50% it's like, you know, it's like 99 to 1% right? I don't really consider like Instagram models is like part of the population, but realistically, it really is like a 99 to 1. And so like, yeah, like, I guess it is. Yeah, I don't really have any solutions to that. But in a way, I also feel it's kind of like you put out what you put out and then, you know, you get that in return. So, like, you know, if you are not, you know, trying to be an Instagram model, then you don't get like, like, those sort of like, you know, in decent, like, terms and stuff as much. Yeah, keyword is as much. Yeah, it's gonna stay like, I got zero of those DMs. Maybe you should show off your legs more. But these are the comments I get on on daily basis, actually. Oh, Jesus. But I think there's one thing that probably came, came, improved a little bit, and that matters is that this should stop joking about the female professionals. You know, there's like two states, right? The people who work food time for crypto. And then there's some like random, not random. And then there's some influencer online who probably just, you know, post selfie and everything, but not doing the food time. Crypto related job. But I think the someone with company, they really stop, she'll stop, like, making fun or objectify the female professionals in the space, like, like, what kind of a company seeing the traditional or other industry with higher A, CMO, just post, like, sexy photo, I don't think, I don't think it anywhere happens like that. Or, yeah, I think that's real big issues. Like, did you really stop joking about the CMO role, or marketing role, or be the related roles, which more likely to be female singers in the industry? And that can definitely help to improve a lot. Because once you start to really objectify, those female roles, those have, like, roles that are more taken by females, it really gives, like, really bad culture to improve, like, objectify female. And then I think that also increased the possibility for sexual harassment towards them. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And that is something actionable, right? And I would even go further in just saying, like, any sort of objectification of women in this space, especially like the professionals and the ones who are, doing it gigabrain full-time, and no more than all of the dudes saying post-feed-picks, or whatever. Yes, it's free market. People can do whatever they want, but they can't stop taking a picture of other female professionals. This isn't really dumb. Gotcha, yeah, no, 100% agree. So I would love to keep talking to you guys forever. This has been an amazing conversation, but we're running a little long on time here. So I want to move to our ending segment. This was created by our young chef, Jala. I'm really hyped to ask you all about it. So the idea is, let's say tomorrow, you lose all of your funds, all your crypto, everything, in a random voting accident, except for 50 grand. So you have nothing left to your name, but 50k. You're allowed to buy one bag. It can be a token. It could be an NFT. It could be, for some reason, a stunk. If you want to buy one of those, if you're a boomer or something, I don't know why anyone owns those anymore. But I'm curious, what are you buying here? What are you really bullish on right now? Look, for now, I saw the price of spell is dropped below 0.01. So if I only got 5k left, I'd probably buy that at this rate. OK, you going in on spell? All right, I see you. I see you. What's your bag? Well, I'm going to get called a boomer for this, but I think I would just stick my teeth. Honestly, I respect that move. I respect that move. And you would make one of the young members butters, who's the biggest eith maxi. You'd be very happy hearing that. But I like that. All right, fair, what about you? What's your bag? What are you buying if you got only 50k left to your name? I've already mentioned those, but definitely a-- probably something like Lerzer. If they had a trouble with it, you know, they jumped. But basically, I think you're looking at anything interoperability. I believe that's very bullish. And any of the current projects out there that do multi-chain connections and whatnot interoperability stuff, you might not see a return on them right now, right now, but long-term, I'm very bullish on these. Gotcha, awesome. All right, well, this has been an absolute blast. I've really enjoyed talking you guys. I know my brain has grown bigger just from this conversation. But before we go, show your guys Twitter's. Where can everyone find you on the Twitter sphere and the metaverse, wherever? My Twitter is a little bit difficult to spell out. It's five, and then the number five brown underscore eyes. You can definitely find all of our contact information, Twitter, whatever, on e-girl, capitals, Twitter, and our website as well. Yeah, your name's a little rough. Yeah, five, five brown eyes. It's like a lyric. But yeah, I couldn't get the actual, you know, it was all taken, so-- Oh, it's a lyric. I didn't know that. Yeah, five, five with brown eyes. It's not like the sunrise. What song is that? No, I need to listen to it. It's a super old song by City High. Interesting. I think it was called Caramel. You think it's called Caramel. You know it's called Caramel. Yeah, I think it's called Caramel. Where can everyone find you? Like, fears is, I think it's good to go to the e-girl capitals website. I met Automata Emily. But these days, I'm in VR a lot as well. So VRChat or NEOs, you can find me at Emily Salty. And yeah, if you're interested, like, I'll take you around, like, a tour of different worlds and stuff. Well, 100% take you up on that offer. That sounds awesome. OK, awesome. Go work at MEX and Zivo. All right. [LAUGHTER] We'll do it. Might take all my paychecks, but I'll do it. Molly, what about you? My is quite easy to remember. It's called Big Magic Thou. Where did that name come from? I'm so curious. Because my name is-- like, my name in Chinese sound like more-- more knee. It means magic. Because Molly sounds like more knee. And then everyone starts. And then I think you start from a couple of my friends when they were drunk. They saw, like, add a big to it. So they call me that more knee. So they translate back to English. It's big magic. And then-- and then so I got knowing. And everyone started calling me big magic, big magic. And when I registered to there, he was taken. So I added Thou into it. And back then, Thou was, like, kind of hype. Gosh, you. I love that big magic. [LAUGHTER] Oh, it's hilarious. All right, well, thank you all. So much for joining me. Really, really, it's been awesome. Thanks for having us. It's great. So thank you for having us. It was great. That's a pleasure talking to you. As always, you can find me on Twitter at the Rogue Atachi. And one quick disclaimer, nothing set on this podcast as advice or as solicitation to buy or sell in the assets or tokens we may. And often because we're passionate about the projects we bring on, hold investments in the project. None of this is financial advice. Please do your own research. This is a risky field. We have a lot of amazing guests lined up. Looks like we're going to be doing a podcast episode of Week, which I'm really excited about. It's going to be a lot of work, but it's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait. So tune back in next week. Also, check out the new Goodwill Yunting Account on Twitter. It's @GoodwillYunting. Follow us, we post updates, leaks on who's coming on next. We post sound clips from future episodes, past episodes. Give you a little snippets of alpha. So definitely worth the follow. Again, that's @GoodwillYunting. Throw us a like, subscribe on all your favorite podcast hosts. All right, that's enough, shelling. As always, you're hard, you're best, you're capital. [MUSIC PLAYING]