EE479: Dr Caitriona Ryan & Dr Niki Ralph: 40,000 Patients a Year at the Institute of Dermatologists

If you can optimize your health and the way you're living and do everything you can to check things before there are a problem, that is the way we have to move. And that is the opposite of the mindset of Irish people. We are reactive and we need to be preventative. And that's part of what we're trying to build with this, you know, moving into the world of longevity signs in a proper scientific way that we're doing the right tests. That we're doing things that actually improve outcomes. I think there needs to be a pivot in the way we think here. Katrina, Nikki, welcome to the pod. Hi, Gary, thanks for having us on. Thank you for hosting me in this incredible location. Thank you. This is stunning. Where are we? So we're in Bull's Bridge, the Institute of Dermatologists. So you're in the the extension side of it. So when we started Institute of Dermatologists now six and a half years ago, we had two floors on the other side of the building. Thinking we were worried at the beginning when we opened that we had like totally overstretched. It was a huge lease at pretty early. And how would we ever fell asleep? And then within three, four years, we needed to build out another space to house all of our consultants and expand our cosmetic suite. So we're on the new side now. I was really keen to talk to you, boss, because you bossed that myth that I hate, which is there's only one way to build business. You have built, I don't know how many, how many businesses do you have now? Five between us. And we get five. So what's the origin story? How did this all start? Well, we're both doctors, and we met 20 something years ago. Many five years ago. Yeah. When we were in our training years, and then we both went into dermatology, and we went off to the United States. I was here and then over to the UK, and then she came back. And yeah, we're both consultant dermatologists. And then we were working in private practice, and then we decided to take the big leap and stars, as we said, on the other side of the building. And then in September of 2024, this is where we built this side of the building. So yeah, five more consulting rooms and this lovely, big, waiting area space. So yeah. And I think what happened, Gary, is that, you know, I had been in the States for years, where there's a very different model of private care. So you've centers of excellence in different specialties. So if you've got a dermatology problem, you go to the center of excellence of dermatology, the cardiology, you go to, you go to see a cardiologist in a cardiology center, where you've got all of the best of everything. In our and the private practice model was very, it still is for the most part very much solo practitioners, you know, that have rooms in a private hospital. So what we were trying to do, you know, my subniquity talked about it a lot, is trying rebuilds that center of excellence for multiple consultants of the same specialty, who each have different skills, work together under one roof with your specialty nurses and bring all aspects of the care to somebody. So we were actually beside each other working separately in two rooms. So we chatted and we said, we're going to reproduce this, you know, because it brings, it's better for everyone involved, obviously the patient is always at the center, but it's actually better for the consultants too, because you've got that cross-pollination, everyone gets better together and you just did a much better standards of care. And it is a very scalable business as well. So, you know, I think a lot of people think that doctors can be business people certainly and are hard and we are an actually pretty bad at this. But I think if you can do healthcare really well, a great business can bring even better healthcare results to people as well. So I think it's a model that I think will change it on, we've had a lot of people from different specialties come and talk to us about it. But it naturally grew within out of that, we had our, you know, institute of dermatologists, which is the center of excellence for both medical and cosmetic dermatology. Again, they were things that were quite separate. So what's the difference between those two? So, medical, you'll come to me for your skin cancer checks, your mole checks, I'll treat your acne, your psoriasis, eczema, contact dermatitis, hair loss, we do a lot of hair loss, that's one of my special interests as well. So that's all of the medical term, then cosmetic dermatology is things like antireticlinjections, dermal fillers, the whole spectrum of lasers. There's no great machine that we don't have. And it's because we have this center, you know, we've got such a huge throughput of patients. And there is the whole skincare side of things too, which is a minefield for lots of consumers out there. So people who have completely healthy skin that want it to be better. So we have, we do a huge amount of skincare, you know, medical grade, skincare, both in clinic and online. So we've, we very much built our online business, and online skincare cells. And we've developed the center of medical and cosmetic dermatology, but then after that, what was missing and what I really missed from, from the US is that in the US, you could do everything under one roof, which includes the skin cancer surgery. So in our clinical practice, you need to go to a private medical hospital and inpatient hospital, you know, we, we both do our skin cancer surgeries in BlackRock clinic. And in the States, when I saw patient, I'd see their, their funny mole, and it will be gone by the time they left the room. I would do everything, you know, in the same visit. Much better for the patient. You don't have somebody who's waiting six weeks to come in and do something and then ask to go off and get the pathology and everything else. So during, during COVID, and actually I don't, Nikki, Nikki, is the skin cancer experts here? That's really her field, but I think that that COVID, well, a new sort of aspect of things for us as well. Before we jump into that one, I want to know what was the hardest part. She says some of the really interesting there. You know, there's this thing about doctors, nothing good business people. So what was for you, like, what was the hardest transition part? I think it was a totally perfect, like we, we were changing the paradigm of delivery of care, you know, opening a center, like sort of not in many hospitals, but not far off. And then where people go to comb. And, you know, that was definitely signing a 20-year lease in the center of Osbridge. We've got, we've got it incredibly high rent. So all of that as well. So that was, I think, something very different. And, like, looking back now, very, very, very, very, very, very, very pregnant at the time. I think all these things go to her head when she's pregnant. She's like, don't let her make any more decisions. Whatever, I'm pregnant. Like, I do. Yeah. We had to have it open by the time I had the baby was my thing. So, like, literally, we, from the time we, we chatted the chat. That was November. We had the place open by July. And that was everything to do with all of the logistics and everything else. And a whole, a whole fairtale. We had to, it was, it was a shell. So, yeah, when we decided to do something, we do. Yeah, we're both really hard workers, you know, execute. Is urgency a key part, then of your makeup? Is that because that's an incredibly tight turnaround. And like, people will see here, we're actually in your place here, but it doesn't look like a medical center. It looks like a nice hotel experience. Yeah. Why so bright? And I think that's always been a really important thing for us here too. You know, our patients, our patients, but they're also customers and they, they come and they, they pay money for a consultation. And it should be a lovely experience, not a daunting experience from beginning to end. And, and we feel very, we've been amazing team. We've been amazing group of medical sects, resubmant, staff, nurses here. And that's very much part of our, our ethos and our culture here. A patient can come in very nervous about what they're coming from the time they walk in the door. They, they get, you know, they get greeted in a lovely way. They get all of that hand-holding and, and they leave with a smile on their face. They are team or an extension of us. And, and what are, our patients experiences. And that's really, really important, especially on the medical side. Customers care and customer service like putting the customer at the center of that. You're incredibly busy. So how have you set standards? Because I think that's the biggest thing is that founders often find they reach this, this velocity of growth, maybe to get to 10 staff, 20 staff, and then things start to slide and get difficult. How do you set standards? I actually think it's probably been the opposite here. And maybe it's different for us because not, it's not a customer at the center. It's a patient at the center, which really does change the way you think about things. And I think the culture of somewhere for, you know, our doctors, our nurses, and everyone else involved. So if anything, I think our processes have become more, like, so that there's no room for error or patients appointment not being missed or anything else. Like we have, with this lot of logistics here as well, but not just to do with the booking of patients appointment, but their surgery, everything else that comes their instructions. And I think with the volume of patients that come through here now, it's about 40,000 years, we have things so streamlined that there's no room for errors. So the standards are so high that we can go more and more that way. And that's really important as well, Gary, when it comes to building any business, I think you have to have that framework and the logistics so good that when you scale, that it scales so easily then. And I do think it probably took us three to four years to get things exactly where we want us. And we have exactly, we do have it like, and that's something that I think we're really proud of as well. My headline sponsor in 2026 is Nostra. They have a really unique way of serving our companies. Kevin has backed me again in 2026 as he felt we're a fit as Nostra backfounders and entrepreneurs, just like I do. They take the headache of IT away and deliver all the technology in people, but most of all, they speak to clients in plain English, just like we do on the pod. They deliver from companies from a thousand all the way down to twenty employees. Nostra's tagline is "Take control of your IT", which means they give companies a view of what they have, how it all works, so leaders in the company understand IT. This episode of the Entrepreneur Experiment is brought to you by Azure Communications. If you're building a brand, how it shows up in the real world matters, just like you see on the pod. And that's where Azure Communications come in. Azure specializes in high-quality print and packaging solutions that help businesses look professional, credible and ready to scale. 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How do you set across that then as founders? I think founders listening to Ireland in this space can learn a lot from it's great book on reasonable hospitality. That's about running the best restaurant in the world. You're sort of running the best clinics in the world. So founders from a totally different industry, how can they steal from you? What can they take from you now? What have you learned in terms of patient care and in terms of keeping the standards and the systems? So what would you do differently again to set up the highest standard of customer/slicing care? Well, you need to listen to your staff and get their feedback. When Katrina and I are in the room, we have potentially 40 patients a day. We are locked into that room, but we have regular meetings with our business manager and nurse manager. So they're training us to always of today's the best. And then they would see things that we can't see because we're in with the patient. So if they're seeing things in the cosmetics week, they will bring it to us. We sit around as a whole team and get everyone's opinion as to how we could change processes. What we can put in place to make it more streamlined for the patient. So I think getting your own team feedback is really important. It's all about your team. It's all about them feeling how much you care. And I think that's infectious. Our team is so proud of what we've done as well. But it is we've so many meetings. We have our meeting today. We have meeting every lunch break. And they're many with the team. So we've got our management meeting with all of the cosmetic sweet staff. On a Thursday, we have practice management meeting that's more to do with business. We are meeting all the time between, so and that happens at lunchtime. We've meeting every lunchtime. And then we have meeting meetings several of the mornings as well with our team. And it is that and you can't take your finger off that pulse. With our, we have an agenda for each of those meetings. So that we make sure it goes to absolutely every aspect of the business and complaints. And you know, every every aspect of it. And I think nothing ever, nothing ever ever falls through the cracks that way. And we, there's a forum there for feedback the whole time. So we, we know if something, if there's a problem somewhere and gets ordered very easily. It seemed very intensely across the board, right? You seem like you're tuned in right across the board. What was the biggest challenge though from setting up? Because I think people will listen and go, they are dialed. And you are, but what was the biggest challenges you face setting this up? Well, I don't think there was a challenge. Once we put our minds, what we just did it, I think actually one COVID has the biggest challenge for us is when the hospital is closed. We would both have surgical lists, all the doctors here did. And we were short out of the hospitals. You've got people that you know you're supposed to be operating on that week with melanoma, scramacellacarcinoma, so potentially deadly skin cancers. And we were told, it's this, it's this, it's got, and we didn't know how long it was going to close for. And essentially close for three to four months. And that's when we got the idea, well, why can't we just do it here? We have theater grade lights. We just got all the equipment in. We operated on all of our patients. And that was actually what made me able to sleep at night because when I went home thinking, oh my god, what am I going to do? We were able to just do it. And then afterwards our patients came back for their follow-up visits. And then they were like, oh, from when you've got a skin cancer, you're going to get another one. So the chance to start you're then taking them back into the hospital. They're like, why can't you just do it here like you did the last time? And that was when we were like, well, yeah, why can't we? That's where the whole journey for the surgical center started. And I think I think Gary, that's it in medicine or in business. When you see, you mean you see something that doesn't make sense, it's actually, you know, acting on that. That's where the new skin cancer and skin surgery center of excellence has come from. It's sort of born out of our problems. You know, if there is a problem there, it's probably a problem for everyone. And if you can turn that around. And that has been, you know, that's been now six years in the making, doing the surgical institute around the corner. But it means now we give our patients the absolution, goals, down to the care. You know, we have a C and treat model, you know, that somebody comes into the surgical institute. And Mo needs to come off, it's taken off. You know, that same time they leave with no stress. So I think, I think the biggest problems you encounter can end up being, you know, where you have, you know, the best ideas or where you pivot. I think that's happened so many times with us, you know, things that become a challenge, you know, when it came to COVID, another thing that happened was, you know, we could keep going with our medical appointments, but the whole cosmetic, so you don't have a cosmetic nurses, everything. It was nine months into opening the business. We'd, yeah, we'd open nine months beforehand. And we'd huge bills with everything going on. That's what we think. So I think we took loads of opportunities at that. We completely agree the online sales business. We started doing, um, tally dermatology as much as we could. Um, skink our consoles online. Um, so we grew in all sorts of directions without planning to, but it actually complemented our own business and grew our, our sort of ecosystem that we built here, the dermatology ecosystem. So, um, I think, um, you know, these sort of challenges can really, um, you know, you can really get lots out of them. How do you work together as co-founders? Do you think quite similar use in the me co-founders? They're extremely different. So one, now we're like, I think because we know each other so long and when you're working as a, as a junior doctor on call, if someone has your back, like they're the best person in the world, it's hard. We did the hundred hour weeks and so forth. And that's how I knew how hard Katrina worked at she the same with me. So I think we knew then we could make this work. So we both have totally independent businesses as dermatologists. She has serves. I have mine and we see our own patients. And then we have to fit all those meetings in a range that goes with, you know, 40 patients a day. So it is every lunchtime. And because of the other businesses now, it's every evening, basically. Before work. And, you know, we obviously, the message is you're the one weekend or something. It's 24 as a day. We're getting together now as well. To try to do high rocks. We're like, you know, work wives and 19 high rocks. But yeah, different though. Like we are very different. So we have, we've common things that make us work pretty well together. So when I think it's a work ethic, we're both, Nikki is, you know, the hardest working person I know apart from, I think I refer her to. So, you know, we both. We both. The homeless. No, totally. Totally. And the two of us, I love the, I hate, we don't expect straight away email back straight away because of I can they can. We're both like this. So we're both really hard working. And I think we both have a lot of energy. Yeah. But then we're completely different. And otherwise, and I think this is why we work. And, you know, I think Nikki is so much more. I'm sorry, but that's the wrong word. I don't know, unstable, but Nikki is, it's much more a black and white person, which is great, you know, it's, and I was a no like, and I get a bit more excited by things. So I think, I think I'm more, a bit more creative, I think of ideas. And Nikki is very logical and so we've never had a fight in all our years, you know, no, we've never had a fight. So it just works really, really well. And then as we moved in the other business, we've gone into or, you know, we've, I've been looking at ages back into longevity. It's, I'm obsessed with longevity dementia, all of those different scopes. So myself and Nikki then started talking about that and we've developed a supplement together. I'm dying to talk to you about that before I can't move on without finding out. How do you manage your days and your weeks because they sound packed? Yeah. And we both, we're both, we're both kids as well. Yeah, we start early and we finish late. Bring me through a day in each of your lives. I think that'd be really fascinating for people. But if you get so prepared here. Yeah. So I get up at six and then I work out at six because there's no way I get it done. Like we're on meetings, teams calls until 10, 10, 30 at night. There's no way I could get it done after work. So I feel psychologically set for the day, energized. I'm in the car at 7, I drop my little girl at school in the city center, I'm back here and I'd write 7 minutes past 8. I eat my breakfast in the car. 7 minutes past 8? I think that sums you up. And then first patient at 8.15 and then every day ends differently, but for me, Mondays is the longest I'd finished around 7 and then often we're rushing home, we've to jump in a team school at 8 o'clock and yeah, that would be a typical day, but of course then some days you're in theater so you know you're not here in the clinic, for now we're obviously driving into the hospital, but I will be very happy when I just have to walk across the road and operate there. But like then we could be on the radio, we have a we have a slot with Pacani so some mornings you're heading in there and then you set your clinic around that, but I mean our secures aren't incredible at organizing our diaries. We're not as incredible as always informing them that we have an extra meeting, sometimes I'm guilty of not putting it in the diary, but they're really good at organizing things worse. So mine would be pretty similar except on as good in the mornings. So I get up with half five in the mornings, I go to the gym, I go across to gym coffee and I do my hierarchy classes, but the other day is about 7.15, get the kids up, I need them ready for my nanny who takes over at 8 because she brings them to school and I go into work then. I see patients every day to half six and there's I think that the hardest thing about our schedule actually Gary has to be that we don't have any flexibility to my patient list is booked out for you know two years and events. No flexibility to move, it's not like I can somebody says can we have a meeting at two o'clock? It has to happen between 1.15 or two. I get you in 2028. Yes, that's 3 pm. Well then we can do lunch times and we I can do half eight meetings between half eight and nine and then when I come home I use it to use your base 645 7 while the time I get home. I've an hour an hour a bit with the kids they go to bed and then that's why the team meetings start to age to get the kids to bed. So I've I've I had my kids much later in my 40s so my kids are quite small so I have that time with them. I work Monday to Thursday in the clinic and then five days as meetings so yeah and then weekends is when I run to rugby and gator can suck her and all that sort of thing and then we do have a way meetings sometimes at the weekends too so we're like we're really lucky to have I've I've been amazing Nanny and a great partner so we've got a lot of support that way. I have another five step kids as well and so there's seven all together so there's there's not going on You're massively into longevity and balance. How do you manage energy then? Because they sound like they're very intense days. Leap markets. I think we're just both really energetic people. Like genuinely I don't know like I don't feel tired like we're now obviously on our supplement and I think we more energy and but I think we're just really we're kind of positive people like you know I mean jenner is terrible a month when I'm like like it's nearly over and I think we I think we're very similar in mindset like we do we do and we see you know you see a hurdle we're like let's just let's just jump over to go around it like there has to be a way so I don't think you know this is not always going to be a straight line and we just deal with that and I think you know I wonder if say you know I don't know all by myself or Nikita don't know all by them by herself would I be jaded now and I probably would so I think um you know we we definitely are both high energy people say to us the whole time we've been with us and know us um but I actually think that when you're doing especially when the problems come because they're inevitable um that when you're doing things together everything is sort of symmetrical you know you've got each other to I actually wonder what the what the stress you know kill your energy if we weren't in it together so I do think we have it easier the most uh founders um who will and so do I think that's very lonely I know we we we we are we're very lucky to have our groups with the EOI group and things like that the band's ideas what we can do by ourselves a lot of the time um and having meetings at a 15 at night time whatever when Nikita's on a two it's it's easier it's not that you're it's a it's not as much of a slog I think so I think we get energy from each other I think you doubt yourself more if you're just in and by yourself I think just always having that same word to say like is this the right thing to do you know and then we'll sleep on and then go yeah let's go and the great thing about we don't sleep one of a very long though we make we make decisions ago and we actually it's very rare even when it came to the the decor of these places we've it's a sign a few places at this stage um the people love working with us from the food I come because we're like yes no yes no we always say yes yeah no fine fine fine like they've never seen people make decisions as quickly so we're good at that um but the funny thing is you know I'm often there the I come up with ideas sometimes but Nick he's really good at again like yeah great idea great idea no no and the know is that's it that's it Nicky's a really good knower as well she she talked to me about this because people are like they can't be that good they can't be that close talk to me about disagreements then like do you disagree and commit or how do you decide because it's up to 50 50 so how do you decide that don't disagree and commit like it's in we just talk it out and like if it's if it's right for us if it's right for the business we haven't had um and the other time when it is like oh no but you're not thinking this I'm like oh yeah you're totally right like so she yeah we're very good that way together um there's time and there's no way you go so there's you've had so much time together at this stage yeah we need to concentrate on sleep how do you decide what to say yes to because yeah i'm sure you get a lot of opportunities no she's terrible at that that is I have terrible phone yeah everything i like it's not that can't say no i just want to do everything even if it's one of Christmas i'm at every night you know i'm desperate no i'm a little bit of i'm a little bit quieter and i kind of i know as you can probably hear from this podcast i have vocal cord nodules and i need to learn how to stop talking so i've had to say no since last year i didn't go out over the whole of Christmas like it's day quiet and yeah i think but yeah i don't i don't think it's gonna have to know the no but is there like everything seems like an option now i don't gotta go no that's just stupid yeah you know as it i don't boss but it would get excited by something then oh like i know curious you go people don't even like when i go on holidays Gary because like she's too much time in her hands yeah so yeah nobody's hoping so much fun like it really has like there's a time myself and i can't put on her hair i'd like to bet things or stress about things for it's been such a brilliant journey really has and um you know we don't have any any regrets we don't think we don't think we've made any big mistakes talk to me then about longevity because it brings us nice down to id formulas what's what was the spark for that so i think the spark was we do something on instagram called ask id and so just the followers sending questions um and cap getting asked about what supplements to take and i i'm a big i love the whole long preventative health longevity um you know peterity is my my my my hero um and um i think it was more we were asking about supplements and the more i got into the i'm all about the science i'm a total um i spent a lot of time in in the in the us doing translation side of the science and systemic information so when people started asking about what would help with the aging process and you think that people think of aging as their skin and hair um and what really works and and a lot of it was about collagen um which actually there's very good science behind um i went down rabbit holes and and dementia is another big area that i feel very strongly about i'm terrified of getting dementia like my brain is probably my my only real asset um um so and and really it was it was cellular health and cellular function and if you go into it with a why do we come to crap it you know we see it on the outside and i think this is why we often get it involved in in in um there a lot of dermatologists are very involved in basic science research because we've access to our tissue when it comes to looking at experiments and things like that but it's the same cellular processes through each or body so we get to see your skin getting older looking into crap as hair loss that sort of thing but it's all to do with um to do with cellular function you know how your mitochondria stop performing in the same way search in an activity to lameray's i don't want to bore everyone but um looking at what actually changed all of those parameters and the light cells to function better and and then the end um you know i was like thinking i think we should do a supplement you know everyone's asking us about supplements but there's actually no dermatologist formulated supplement at all when we went and did and there's people who talk about being skin experts but nobody was actually consultant dermatologist um and then it grew legs because it was nothing because of my phone well that that made that made a difference that we couldn't put in that we couldn't leave out so it grew now we have you know the the usual um vitamins minerals you know creating collagen and it's but it was the super potent antioxidants and things that actually are verse biological age so so what is it so it is a supplement so um we had to keep the amigas separs because they there was no way of the the supplement of taste it horrible with it but it's two amigas and that was on a side and then a supplement that you mix um so 32 ingredients in the supplement um 12 grams a day that you mix with uh four and a mouth of water and you take it once a day and then it's absolutely everything you need bar bar your probiotic because that isn't stable in in the mix you wouldn't be able to have um proper stability there um and people will take it once a day it's launching here um and a march but we have randomized randomized clinical trials going on that will finish in a bit of four weeks time that will show the reversal of biological age with us um and we're looking at every parameter that we can affect with cellular function so um we're looking at cognitive cognitive processing speed all of the skin metrics, so Transepadermal Water Loss, cutometry, corneometry, wrinkling scales, hair density measures, so hair counts, shaft size. Then we're looking at sleep, our vitality scales and libido scales as well. So that's the randomized control trial. So we've got people on the supplement, and people on placebo. I'm all of the signs. You know, I really am. There's so much crackery going on in the world along to have these signs. There's good stuff, and then there are so, there are so many people that people follow, like gods who are, you know, I won't even go there. It drives me absolutely insane. So we have-- - Let's break into this, because it's really interesting. We talk about the body, the business, the brain. I think there's too much focus on business people, just go hard on the business, and they tend to ignore the body, the brain. What is the big misconception, you see? You said there's a lot of crackery. What are they? Because let's just burst a few bubbles right here and there. What are the actual things you see that are, like, that's completely nonsense. - So, you know, so many things that are trending, there are no signs behind them, like these IV and NAD. Like, you know, what you do want to take is high, high dose nicotine amide. That's where all the signs is. That's where you have all the data, especially when it comes to reversing and reducing cancer risk. We've done actually that in skin cancer. So the studies that show taking the dose we have in our longevity supplement reduces skin cancer frequency by up to 67%. The data is there. The people are starting to take infusions of peptides. There is no data there yet. Like, you have to, then this is where I suppose we're different. We are both scientists, row professors. And we have to be able to sound over absolutely everything, especially when we're putting something out there. So, and- - Epitides is the one at the minute, right? We're having a ball as of the minute. It's January 26th. Peptides are everywhere. Every second in-striped story is peptides. - But it's like, it'd be dangerous. I mean, when you hear people that are injecting this, then injecting that, like, there's no data. You just don't know what's gonna happen. - I know peptides are part of protein. Like, I think the new buzz term, and now, you know, topically, they help if they're the right molecular weights. But there has been no studies talking about IV peptides. It, you know, hyperbaric studies. There's so much out there where there's no data. And then there's other good data, you know. - Yeah, let's look at the good data now. Let's go right. There's people listening at home. They can't get out of the form, and there's yet when the gang get that, that'll be great. But in the meantime, what can they start doing? This is scientifically backed for longevity. - You know what? You know what is the most scientifically backed thing? Exercise. VO2 max. Like, if you really want it, like, and again, you see, you can exercise for free. And people are going out there spending two, grand three grand, and these rock infusions, and business too, really well. But, you know, if you really want to improve your longevity and your health, and I would, people talk about longevity. For me, I would prefer to live to AZ and Dye, then to live to 100 and be decrepit and demanded for 20 years. So actually, it's all about living better. You know, health's fun. It's the term "I prefer" and "I'm living healthier" at every. If you can live healthier at every decade than you would have without the interventions, that's when you make real change. And the first thing is exercise. Then sleep is huge. Read really important. Social interaction is really important to them. That's when these are all being shown in them, in really good, well done studies. And then nutrition is really important, but the so-called to be the last of all those things. And people that are promising the world with other things, it kills me, because it's hard wearing cash for people, and they're readers trying to make themselves healthier, better, and they're going about it the wrong way. And that's where we, the dermatology and longevity so it really well together, because we have all the signs of the organ that shows you from the outside in, and it's trying to improve that from the inside out. And we'll have the signs there to prove it as well. We actually also have a user study and we're really excited about that. We've 70 people in our office, KOLs, and then other people who are friends and supporters, who've had an ID form this for the last eight weeks. And we have a partnership with Woop. So we have an integration with biometric feedback, and that will be there for the consumers when we launch this, an API integration, that will be, because what I want is somebody goes on our supplements, and it's not just we tell them they're going to feel better, hopefully they feel better, but also we have ID questionnaires that they're ID score looking at all the different pillars of longevity, and if they choose to integrate their Woop or their, or their oral ring, they will see their improvements in their power over time, because people deserve to see their data. And when they put money into something, that they actually have not just subjective change, but they see objective changes as well. And that's really, really important to us. We're all amazed. And it's here, we are results driven when it comes to any of our cosmetic procedures tier two, and this is a very much trained there too. It's hard to encourage for people, and we need to be really, really responsible and make sure that they get the best that they can for us. - I hope the Woop partnership, I've been using Woop since the rain, 19, of the fact that you're actually teamed up with them, because I think, like you said, it's not magic bullet, but I think you need to be reminded all the time. - Yeah, I think it gives you focus on-- - We get distracted, right? We're distracted by nature. - Yeah, you're easily dropping off, you're like, I'm gonna off that again, and you know, you know, I'm going out of my ID formulas, and I can't look, my recovery's going to end or whatever. So I think that actually just from a business model, Gary, you know, with this supplement, customer retention is everything. And when we have something that they chose and why, what they, how they've improved, then they're gonna stay with it, because they don't, they, you know, they really believe in us, and we want them to believe. - What about people taking it, but then living the other way? - Right, they're not exercising. - Like, if you were the right, it sounds brilliant, right? - You can't, yeah. - You know, it sounds great, but a lot of what you said there, exercise, use alcohol, sleep. You know, people know what they should do, but getting to do it is a different thing. - Yeah, we can't exactly outrain a bad diet is what they always say. - Precisely right. - You know, like everyone thinks it's always the exercise, and you just up your exercise, weight will drop, or things like that. No, you can't, like, I mean, and we're not saying that this is to supplement your bad life, and this is to be synergistic and everything else you're doing. But I think if you're like following and tracking your parameters and you're drinking or something and things again and better, just like when you look at your wound, but if you're in the red, people are like, "Oh God, I better cut myself on." And whether that was alcohol or because they haven't been partying and not sleeping, and it kind of changes your mindset. I know a few people who've gotten a wound who, when they drank and they went into the red, they stopped drinking. So I think it's all of those things coming together, but it's not to replace your diet or your exercise. Is your target audience, some of like me who's already very, very engaged in the data, you know, training eight, nine, 10 times a week, is already put into the lifestyle? You're not our own eaters. Yeah. I'll be completely honest here. So we've done a lot of market research, and we have about six profiles that we're targeting, and you are definitely one of them. Nikki probably falls into your category as well. And, you know, a biohacker, people who really are trying to do absolutely everything they can. And this is the best solution for them. Like, we plan to take over the, you know, the AG1 IMAs and markers, because our subnitism, it is so much better. I know obviously I'm biased, but what we have in us is, and we have pretty much everything that they need for their probiotic innards. But then there's the person who is maybe a little bit more like me, who I'm healthy, and I work as, but I want to reverse the clock, I'm like even more so. So there, and then there's, like, there's all of these, there's people who are absolutely, you know, who aren't working out, who can't get the time to, they might be a single mom, they might be working, the sort of hours that can't be busy. They want to be too. We have the Wall Street, you know, Strockbroker, who's chugging this, you know, when he comes in from an eye out, you know, actually the morning after, it's because, you know, for the circadian rhythms, you really want people to have this in the morning. But actually there's a lot of those profiles, and it will appeal to people for different reasons. But obviously we're going to advocate the healthy by-spanner. And what we really want this to become as well, is an educational platform at community, and that they're, you know, hopefully we'll be able to show to Gary, but showing the whole biohacking. So I do it, and that's part of the interface that's going to be part of the consumer journey as well. And I'm building that out over time to actually see what's falling down, and that will be, I'll probably be our next project, having longevity centers, and because, you know, there's so much you can bring with this, you know, rather than just hand someone a supplement. And that would be amazing, longevity center, like that looks like this. I've said this so many times in the podcast, so I've already bought in, like, you know, it should look like hotel, it should feel really high-end. I think that would be amazing. What would you put in your longevity center? I definitely would. We're going to talk about that. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it until the next one, but yeah, definitely. Yeah, so we've already talked to someone about that. So, yeah, the beard. Because what you want are metrics that people can improve. And that's one of the ones that is most amenable to changing, seeing positive change in. Because you want things that are tangible for people to, I think, a huge part of the longevity center that also needs to be having an exercise, physiologist and nutritionist. That's really, really important as well. So there's a whole lot of it. You know, and we've been exploring it over the last, probably a year and a half with Connor, our partner as well. You know, he's involved in both controversy, involved in both the surgical center and the supplement. How we really, you know, disrupt the market with this is not just a supplement, but a new way of life, you know. And what a sort of, you know, scientifically led one, not the the quackery that we're seeing everywhere. You kind of answered my question already, but I kind of want to dabble into it even more. Who are your main competitors? Is you one? Is you one of my? That's a big market. Yeah. Ambitious goal. Yeah. Oh, we're ambitious. We don't do anything on small scale. Oh, when we go, we go hard. We're together an hour. I've already got that. I got that. I've got like 60 seconds. What would you love to happen with this? Like when you look in, because I know you've already planned this out, what would you love with Peter T.S.? As this is the best who's on here. The best of course is there. And so we've got the yeah. He's on the list for the pod. So we can work that together. Oh, yeah. No, I'd love that. Sorry, and joke aside, I do. But for, yeah, people to feel that I mean like, you know, obviously we're looking after patients here for some foremost and we always want to try and provide the 360 of skin health. So if we see them medically, if they have rosacea, for example, spots in their face, we can treat them medically. But then they might need laser therapies or light therapies. Then they could enter the cosmetic suite. They get that done. So they're eventually walking at the door after a few months going, God, I've gotten my skin back. But to add to that, this energy is just a fact of a supplement. Just to make people feel better, we're all living in a busy world, busy lives. So much stress. This is just one simple thing that you can take every day. She is like, you know, obviously again, the people who are feeding back to us are our friends and colleagues and we've got cardiologists on the user journey. We have longevity experts, you know, nutritionists that have worked with anaepictines and all sorts of other people. But the people are getting myself and make your high-fiving each other with like, you know, incredible. So often people having energy levels like they've never had. I didn't tell you this yet. I had someone who said her wounds. He had like, she's never seen. Like nails, hair, people complaining about their hair going so quickly that they have to get their roots still more often. So it's getting that feedback and actually this makes this supplement and obviously we'll go further in the supplement as we branch out into this. But if it makes the difference that we're hearing back from the people who are on it right now, we've no feedback yet from the randomized control trial because they're in an anonymized group that we will never miss. But we'll get their feedback at the end of the study. From our user journey, if it causes the, if the consumers are going to feel the changes that we're getting the feedback on right now, it'll have to be a blockbuster, I think. How do you build up this team? Because you've already got this, this is your fifth business. How do you now allocate time to this? How do you think of this as a resource? Because like launching one business is tough. How are you going to now launch this competitor as you want? So we kind of divide and conquer it as we went along. We did everything together for the first few business and then when it came to the surgical center and ID formulas, Katrina has then kind of led on ID formulas and myself on the surgical center because we can't be at every meeting. There's not enough launch times or evenings. So we had started to kind of separate it out, but all the important stuff and the next steps were on both. But yeah, it's, and I'm sorry, the other big difference for us is our partner Connor Murphy who is like a ninja as well financially and every other way too. So Connor is heading up operations on ID formulas and that's made a huge difference as well because we're coming from the scientific side and the patient that side and everything else. But somebody who has that sort of, you know, on the, the finance side and the upside is absolutely phenomenal as well. So I think we're sort of a dream for you on ID formulas and the surgical center. He brings an awful lot from the, from the business side to us as well. And he's a total hell freak. Like Connor has a higher heart rate variability and view. And I know I've ever seen that. How do you raise heart rate variability? Well, actually, and there it is. The one thing I'm trying to focus on right now and I'm really strongly to raise it up high. So, you kind of have to do everything right. Yeah. It is. It's like keeping everything up. Yeah. And that is, is sprint training as well. You know, things in bursts, but you will see stress, free, the impacts of some heart rate variability and it's actually often, when your heart rate variability starts to go down, Gary, it's often, it can be a sign of, you know, illness coming on or just sort of burn age. That's sort of thing too. So that's really, really important. And we have definitely had changes in heart rate variability with our supplements. We're not quite sure how. I want to have to get on that. If this is even half as good. That's what people listen to be like sign of for weightless sign of for weightless, we'll put a link in the bio. So talk to me then. This sounds expensive. Right. This sounds like a big, big business. Right. You know, AG one is one of the biggest consumer rounds in the world. It's so expensive. Gary and we have, we haven't, we haven't been hit on our exact or our p.s. So I don't want to misinform people here. But it's so expensive we won't be able to retail it. They'll have to all be direct to consumer because the, because the ingredients, the doses, the dosages of the longevity ingredients are as high as they are. And the, you know, we'd have to retail it base, I think, 600 euro a month to have it in retail units. Yeah. So we're trying to, I'm sorry, not we've devised a model, a D2C model that we think is going to operate really, really well. And actually the DC model for suits us for this because this will be subscription. We want complete control. We see an on a set of control for each night. But over people getting it every month on the month and having their question, you know, their, their metrics sent to them every month as well. And we can only do that when, when that, the fulfillment, fulfillment side is done by us. So we're building a different model using D2C, we're involving longevity, cosmetic, clinics and experts in sports medicine into the model too. And we only want, we don't want influencers. We want, we want medics or clinicians or people who are in, who are experts in, in the sports and nutrition field. And that's what we're going to build today. And I think that's how we will, we'll be, we'll be very different to AG1 and IMAs. And I think it's, it's been built in a very different, scientifically, lab, but also, and bringing in tech. I think we're so lucky to have that. And, and more and more people want to see their metrics. They want to see their data. And if they're, if they're doing an intervention, especially an expensive intervention, then you see the results there. I think that's important for us. And they're helping on, helping off. You need people are going to commit to this for like 12 months. It's going to be a great, it's a huge takes time. We see it in the skin because, you know, people come in and, you know, I'm going to put a screen on for a week and my skin has got, like, it doesn't work like that. I mean, a skin cyclist, I'm from 2021 to 28 days. So when we're doing treatments on people often, it's a course of treatment. And even, you know, the people are trying to stimulate new college and with, with cream, with topical right-knowings, you're really going to see the true benefits from six months onwards. So you have to commit to, to that, just like you have to commit to this. A month on it is not suddenly going to change your life forever. So it's consistent. We see it, but that's like, I'm going to have to do an energy levels within two weeks. But the skin, the skin changes don't happen until six weeks. And we're seeing actually the hair and nails at that point as well. And yeah, you know, it has been, so I think people will know within six weeks that it works for them. But it's 12 weeks before you have optimal changes in all of the rest of the month. And hair will be six months. So you see the optimal, I mean, optimal results with this. Do you have frameworks on how you work? Because you seem so, you know, regimented on how, like, I do have frameworks on how you map out like the quarter and the year because planning is obviously a huge part of your business. You know, founders consistently run into planning issues, right? So I don't, don't talk to this, don't talk to that. How do you plan? I think we're actually doing meetings. So, so the meetings. It's actually always a motion, but change a little bit lately is that we have an e-commerce manager. She was, she was, she was, she was, she's mapping at the year first or plenty of year in advance. So yeah, she's the director of marketing as well. She came from, she was global out of e-commerce for, for William Grant. So she comes from a different industry and actually, which is great sometimes when you get somebody to put their, you know, a different, you know, they're coming with a different hat on. So she's been grace and I, and I'm already growing our online sales, you know, in the space of what like, you want to do? You want to do it? Yeah. But also is sort of, I think, challenging us and we're, we're doctors, we're not business people. So we've been learning on the job, which, you know, that's been like, great fun. Like, and yeah. And we never saw ourselves like, I know you went into medicine, be a doctor, but I never thought we'd be on brand and marketing meetings and designing packaging and like, it's been really exciting. Yeah. Great. Do you still think yourself as doctors, not business people? Yeah. No, I like, I'm like, some of the day that I die. I'm like, first and foremost a doctor. I absolutely love my job. Like, I literally love commencing my patients every day. I love operating. Like, I love all aspects of it. And I think at the start, I kind of feel like we were accidental entrepreneurs, but now we actually are entrepreneurs, but we started off, but we're still doctors and that's never going to change. Like, it's in, I could never not see my patients. And I think that's why we're going to build a great business because we always do over patients at the core or, you know, our integrity or ethics, you know, and I'm building at the best, you know, skating the best. dermatology model we can, we plan to scale through it Ireland and hopefully UK and UAE, Middle East, where we see ourselves going with this side of things. But the entrepreneurial side, yeah, I've loved it. I think people say you have a few different careers. We've gotten to have an extra career like Tyged On. And it really has been in our middle-aged lives, in our 40s on. We went to Japan this year with the EOI, the EY entrepreneur of the year group. We were finalists for that. And I think that has broadened our minds, probably more than anything we've done. Meeting people who are sort of high-energy ADHDs, sort of like we are. I think when I went over, I thought it would be a whole lot of businessmen or business egos. And it was completely up with shit, actually. But it's such an amazing group of people. And that inspires you even more. You see people think, oh, God, we're taking on too much. And then you hear other people's stories. And it is. I think being part of that sort of having that network and going on is really, really great for us too, because it does inspire. And it makes things different the United side of the box. And I think that's one of the best things that we've done. Actually, that's the best thing we've done in the last years. Totally. I was the same thinking. It's all going to be so busy and it's going to be a bit out of our depth. And just meeting people so real honest stories, like sleeping at their car because the business went, don't you know, like crazy stuff that you're just kind of going to, but really honest, it was like eye-opening, but now we're past that and I've already been alumni. And I feel like we could just reach out WhatsApp someone for an idea. And we have reached out in the new businesses to be able to meet there. So yeah, amazing experience. Yeah, it's a really exciting world. So yeah, it was accidental. But I would consider myself both. What are they calling a health care entrepreneur? It is with your practice or say with my own dermatology practice, I close to new patients there. But two and a half years ago, because my practice is so full, my sketches are full out to two years. So I'm not going to reach any more-- I get to return to what I'm seeing. And I love my patients. And I'm an Aberdeeve clinical practice. And probably need to call it back a little bit as things grow hopefully. But when you go into the business of health care, having opened this, then we're serving-- we have 38,000 patients coming through. And that's because of what we created. I'm only seeing a very small percentage of them. But actually, I think you can be much more far reaching in what you bring to health care if you operate a really, really good business. And I think what we're building with surgical institute, Dublin, like bringing the standards of skin care, skin cancer care to the absolute top level. Most surgery wasn't probably available in any private hospital in Dublin, the capital city of Ireland. It's a ghost-andred treatment for non-malanoma skin cancer. We're bringing that now to Dublin and beyond. And that people can be treated in a skin cancer center of excellence. Again, our entrepreneurship has brought that to other people on our hope in that IT form is going to go all over the world. How important is brand? Because just listening to you talk there, everything is credible. Everything is very-- I'll see that's the medical ed. But there's implied excellence in the Institute of Dermatology. Everything is very-- Something isn't going to be excellent. We don't want to do it. I would break my heart if we did anything-- Yeah, half-hearted or just-- And there's been lots that has been suggested to us. And we're like, absolutely not. We've compromised care. This is center of excellence. Could we not do things this way? Or indeed, especially when it came to the surgical center. I know. That's what our legacy is going to be. I prefer to do less and do it brilliantly. And ever do anything that's going to compromise. How do you deal with things when people don't meet your standards? Because I think that's very common. The founders appear. And then the standards can drop as they go down the chain. How do you deal with people when they don't meet your standards? I think we do it very well. We've got a very open policy with the staff. We do it very well. And actually, we've brought in nurse managers and our business manager, practice manager, great. So we deal with those sort of things really easy and quickly. I think anything I thought you just deal with it quickly. And you should be-- we hire very well here. So it's usually an easy conversation. And the door is open. We're not like, oh, here and everyone else is here. That's why we're meeting with the whole team every week. And sometimes they will clearly come with a better idea. And we go, yeah, that is better. And we'll go without idea. So communication is the key of everything. And then you've standard operating procedures. Do you have playbooks? So I know-- A million of them. But it is patients we're dealing with. Yeah, this is just what I'm trying to figure out. Because I know people-- like, we've people who work in every industry. It's brilliant. That's the great thing about the part is we've people who have a bakery and then have massive businesses. There were hundreds of millions. For them, listening, how can they take some of your excellence here? Is it like SOPs? Is it workbooks at playbooks? Every policy unit sounds like you have to in a healthcare facility. But actually, I think for us, it's very easy to bring people-- if there's something slipping, our nurses, our team, care about the patients, I think, as much as we do because we've instilled that in them. So there's no problem if something isn't-- they bring someone in and go, well, listen, this is happening. We need it. And they feel that there's never a question. Yeah. I mean, they're with their patients all the time. They're with the same patient for the same journey. They want them to get the best outcome. So yeah, they're actually thrilled. When the patient goes back in for follow-up, and they just look so much better, they're so excited about it. It's great. And then patients are great. And then Gary, I think the other simple ones are too. They're happy. A few people who haven't been-- well, they're let go. We can compromise our quality of care and our standards. And actually, it's even more important for the rest of their team, the nursing team, because then they're carrying somebody. And that's not fair. And that brings down-- that brings down-- Everyone's morale. I mean, everyone's working really hard. They're really busy. And you can't be having one person do two people's job. So as we learned anyway, to have to have the right people on the bus. And that's just what we-- In the right places, yeah. So what is it working on? That's what we're working on, yeah. And actually trying to make sure that you're working to someone's skill set. Like, we have people around the business. And it's funny. It's just knowing what will be the right thing for which member of team. You see, we'll go ahead and excel. And I'm playing to their strengths as well. And I think we really do have that team. And if people feel how-- how patiently you feel about patients on the team, I think that's huge. It really, really is. But I do think-- and this obviously does get harder as businesses grow and grow. But getting rid of negative energy quickly is really important because it only takes one person to change the morale of a whole group, especially if their audience is close to confines. And I think we're really careful when it already happens here. But it's very important to take everyone. Address already, yeah. Before we move to a quick part round, I have to get a quick master class from you for both male and female, right? My wife is like, oh my god, you have to ask them these questions. So this is just for Michelle. And also for male founders. I think male founders of a tendency to just bury it all. I rather not know. So right, male founders first, they're listening. What are the simple things that should be doing daily to look after themselves and their skin? Well, I think exercise, because I think the body and your mind and what they're so linked is in, if you're not exercise, you just don't feel well. You just don't. And I think we could all get bogged down in our work life for a just-tea-neram work in 16 hours a day. And I hear over and over again, because I just don't have time to fit it in. I mean, we are two of the busiest people that I know. And the way it works for me is I get up that extra bit early to get it done, because I know I won't get it done in nice. And then I'm going to have a better day. But certainly for men who they don't want a 10 step skincare routine sunscreen. The most simple thing, because it's going to prevent your final lines and wrinkles, but also skin cancer. I mean, it's the number one cancer in Ireland that we have over 13,000 cases a year. And for men who don't want to go putting 20 products on, it's that one product they could put on before they walk out of ice every day. That's it. And L to clear. Like a moisturizer or SPF or something? Yeah, it is moisturizing SPF. But L to clear is the one that we would use for that, because it absorbs so easily. The reason men don't like to wear it is because it's too wide or too sticky or too gloopy. And then they just won't wear it. What's that called for people that are listening and the one actually get it? What's a cult? L to MD, UV clear. It's UV clear that men love. The only thing I could ever get John, why important it to use. It's got a hyaluronic acid nice in a mitin and two. So it helps the anti-aging and it goes on really well. And that's a daily thing. Everyday. That's a pre-65 days. Yeah. OK, great. That's the box stick for the men. And I would say for men as well, if you just talk about skincare, if they can do two things, actually if they can do three, I can have three things. So my non-negotiables for men or [BLANK_AUDIO] and women are the some block in the morning, preferably a tinted actually for a woman because they'll wear them. Because that block said high-intensity visible light from computer screens and lights in the office. Women are more prone to pigmentation. Is it the ones you recommend? Yeah. I just use the as a clear tinted. It's really easy. One stop shop in the morning has got a high learning as a nice cinema. I keep things really simple for my patients. Some block in the morning and a rat noise at night time. And rat noise is the most potent thing. It's stimulating collagen in your skin, decreasing fine lines, wrinkles, pore size. That's it. And what I say to people, it's my male patients, is you brush your teeth twice a day to yes. So morning with your teeth, you do the some block, night time with your teeth to do the rat noise. That's it. And that's, you know, they don't really need anything else. So they're my non-negotiables for a man. And if they can be doing regain morning and evening as well, just getting in ahead of things. That is such an easy thing to do at the same time. And can really help tackle male pattern hair loss. Because it doesn't bother until it's sort of gone. And if they could have been ahead of us, preferably from the age of 18. Like all my pals in the States run off in the age of 18. And I make such a difference, yeah. Just been ahead of us. And then PR female listeners. That's the same. So when maybe not three again, unless they have female pattern hair loss. Yeah, the morning and evening, so it's morning. Yeah. Tinted zinc containing some block. I always want zinc. My favorite woman is the tinted version of the art of clear. And then nighttime using a rat noise. That's all the nonsense. Yeah, the other ones are the other. So they don't need to spend a fortune. You know, the vitamin C is like they're all added bonus. But you can just get the basics right. Keep it simple. Yeah, it's really good. Because this part is all about like, you know, trunb, holistic trunb, like somebody business brain. It's brilliant. We get practical, practical stuff. Just before we move on to the something that kind of encouraged me there as you were talking through, what do you make of like, there's a lot of like, you know, high street things popping up doing kind of like quick Botox, quick skincare, things like that. It seemed to be popping up quite a lot. What's your going to thoughts on that? Yeah, there's definitely a mark. At first, I heard a filibuc later on on your pods before. Who's who's bought Botox, the masses, I think is business amazing. And I think he's a great guy. He's a beginner founder. So innovative in the way he thinks. So there is actually when it comes to therapy, it's always medics. It's structures and dentists that inject. I'm completely good with us. My fear is people using illegal Botox, literally source Botox injected by nonmedics. And that's popping up in beauty solans and same with fillers as well. So people just not properly trained. That's right. Yeah. So that's it's a huge problem. It's a bigger problem for younger people because they're kind of forward the normal cleaning. So that's my fear there. But I think there's a growing markers. And in order to do them off, the most important. What's getting growing stronger for you within that space? Like what's really growing stronger? What have you seen like a used man develop in the last four or five years? I think there's big swing. When it comes to the cosmetic side of things, I think you're talking about back to the more natural look. So people-- and I hate it-- that overfilled the normal filler look. People look and they've been blown up by a blue. People are now trying to go back to bio stimulation, so generating their own collagen. And that's by things like lasers, aggressive lasers, rate of frequency of micro-needling, using a different type of filler called scoptra, which I love. That's all that I've lied in my face since I was about 29. So I'm doing it like 16 years on. That was huge in the States when I was there. And it's become more of a thing in Ireland as well. Now in the UK. So stimulating your own collagen, polyneucleotides, I think are great as well. It's very easy, very little downtime. So it's getting away from that horrible expression, expressionless, overfilled, weird look, which I think people look older and less attractive with. And is that-- what are you using? What are people focusing more on their skincare to maintain? It's like there's no point in going in laser and all the way. Your pigmentation, your redness, and then not wearing your sunblock. It really annoys me when I see people spending their hard and cash in other places. And they've done course after course of IPL, for example, intense pulse like to treat the broken calories and rent. And then they're coming in. And you're just like, you're not wearing sunblock. And nobody told them to wear sunblock. So if you just do one proper course, you'll never have to do a course again. You just do top ups every so often. But that just drives me mad. So free 60 piece. And our nurses are there to give education. So nobody's allowed to walk out the door with their sunblock on. It's just part of the conversation that you're having. And then obviously when the treatment's done, the sunblock's put on. And it's always checked. Are you wearing sunblock? That's holistic skincare. Rather than just treating different problems and ignoring the rest. Yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] Again, thanks to our sponsors, Nostra, who take such pride in securing their clients. Kevin talks a lot about immutable backup. It's a different stream recovering from a cyber attack or not. Service security is made so complicated by so many. A Nostra work to make it easy and flexible. So it doesn't stop your business. It's affordable and really delivers. Because no one wants to get that attack phone call. Back to the pod. [MUSIC PLAYING] Brilliant. Let's do a quick far out. What book should everyone read? My mind would have to be outlived. I'd like to read. I knew you were going to sit. Peter. It's vegan. If you're ever interviewing you, they interview them. I need to be here. I'll let you know. Incredible book. Really, really interesting. Good to grace, Jim Collins. Someone's doing their business homework. Yes, really like that. But it's sorry. If you're asking me on the other book, poor, because you know, it's only-- if you just want to read a good 24-hour read, I literally inhaled a book. Oh, yeah. Yeah, hours. It was an old one day. Another good one by him is B2.0. That's same as a good, greatest Jim Collins. Yeah. A really, really good book as well. For anyone who's starting into business. Amazing. What's your superpower? I think what our superpower sort of is translating the science into actual practical, mechanical stuff. And that's what we're trying to do in the clinic, and everything that we do. We're both very scientifically driven. We're trying to translate it into outcomes. And I think that's what we're doing with ID formulas. You know? Is there a pew? For me, it's my family. Constant support. Like we work so hard. My daughter's minded by my parents since I went back to work. Many years ago, she's 13 and a half. And yeah, that allows me to do all that I do. What daily habit is the secret to your success? For me, exercise for a single morning, six a.m. Yeah. With ages, I'm not the same person. I'm the exact same. Yeah. And God, I think this is an, I think, really stupid, wonderful water. I drink loads of water as well. I really feel like hydrations are a huge part of human ourselves. Healthy as well. The obvious ones are the best. The simple stuff you talked about in the past, you didn't give like a list of great things. If I have a drink in a water, I just, I do my energy. I, yeah, cognitively, you can feel it. OK, what's the most interesting? This one should be unbelievable. What's the most interesting experiment you've done in your life or business? Oh, I think that's the clinical trial we're doing right now. Like, building it and working. Sorry, obviously, I'm, you know, I'm going to be biased on it. But so my background is translation science with psoriasis. So I used to belong clinical trials in phase three clinical trials and all of the biological therapies in the states for years. So I love clinical trials, but building it for our own product. Like, I was, I was working like, you know, these are farm, big farmer. So actually trying to, trying to show exactly how our supplement performed, I think, designing that experiment, you know, what's going on right now. I, you know, that was really exciting for me. It's the nerve out on that. Yeah. What about you, Nick? The most exciting. And it was the most interesting experiment you've done. Well, more to do with just, you know, do we take on that challenge of opening the surgical center? I think that's going to be the most exciting thing for me when we open the doors in another few months. It just is going to change how we manage scan cancer in Ireland and how I can give proper care to my patients and not have them drive over and back from clinical multiple times. And I think that's one day that for me is, is, is, is yeah, it's going to be amazing. It sounds incredible. I'm going to give you one million euro. You can invest in one person or one company, not yourself. Who? I'm going to give it to my daughter because she is a budding little entrepreneur. She was in young entrepreneurs club in her primary school. And now she's doing robotics every lunchtime and like, basically coded a song yesterday. And like, she just has all these ideas. So I am going to obviously can't give it to her right now. It's like, you know, but yeah, I'll give it to her. Let's try to phone. OK. I think mine would be Amy Connelly, not that she'd love you and miss. But because she's certainly a bootstruck. But the way Amy thinks, you know, she's, her energy, her, I talk to her sometimes about different, you know, formulations, things she's doing. She's going to grow and grow and grow. That would be a brilliant investment of my money, I think. And I always admire people who are bootstrucks. You know, we've never taken alone for this business. We've everything has been grown from. from us up. And I think that's a huge thing we're very, very proud of. I really think on different areas who have built it from the very beginning, sorry, not that there, you know, it's a, if people do need to get investment for watching people like that, there's, there's, there's such a drive. Yeah, and they're, they're the people to back, but they won't let you in. That's why they're, that's why they're, that's why they're a bootstrap. What's one thing you strongly agree that people otherwise strongly disagree with? I, I think the way we work medicine and the way we look at our health here in Ireland, I think is backwards. So people don't want to go to the doctor and ask if something wrong with them. Sorry, not that I even have a GP. But I think preventive health is the way forward. It's something I'm going for colonoscopy tomorrow. My very first colonoscopy because I want to be ahead of everything. And if you can, if you can optimize your health and the way you're living and do everything, you can't just check things before they're a problem, that is the way we have to move. And that's part of what we're trying to build with this, you know, moving into the world along Jeviti signs in a proper scientific way that we're doing the right tests that we're doing things that actually improve outcomes. And that's I think there needs to be a pivot in the way we think here. Why are we so reactive about alchemy and Nikki? Why are we, because I wondered about this a lot. Why are we so reactive? So because we were ahead in the sound of people, you know, I, culturally. Yeah. Yeah. The way medicine is on here is that like completely like, I mean, kids in the states go to their pediatrician every year and get everything checked until they're 18 then they're not old. You know, from a dermatology point of view, people get their moles checked every year. It's all about preventative health here. It's like only when you're dying sick. Do you post a doctor? And then sometimes it's too late. You know, you missed something that could have been easily picked up. Yeah. So I think that's your culture needs to change. Hugen Arnold. And it was actually saved the government of fortune. Yeah. That's the weird thing I never understood. Nikki, what do you believe those people find weird? Um, that you're supposed to wear sunscreen every day. Like how many songs do I have to say? Is it yeah, it's raining half the year. I come from a, I come from a photo biology background and the only month of the year in Ireland because we have tested this with physicists that you cannot get UV damage is January. Um, and literally with that rain outside and everyone's covered up, but you can get UV damage every other month of the year. So I feel like everyone in Ireland thinks there's, there's different sons in different countries. So you go to Spain, there's one son and that that's the one son for all of us. And yeah, if we could just change the mindset, I just recently did a study with the medical student looking at our own patients coming through the door here and other patients, but like they're just not getting at that you need to wear it all the time for prevention, the fine lines, the wrinkles, but with the skin cancer to all the time. Friends are always traveling to help them inspire some questions for us around travel. What's your number one travel tip? I think um, flying is so much. Yeah. Yeah. We get to, we get to see overall health through the skin. So the way your skin becomes dehydrated and your lips just show the overall because you have to be very dehydrated before it shows in your skin. And also my bails don't move for two days afterwards. So I think really, really and we had like taking a more hydration than usual really, really important when you're flying. Our electrolytes are important. And electrolytes aren't as important when you're flying that I know of. And they shouldn't be any way that being on a flight could change your your your your sodium potassium balance. But um certainly we do become dehydrated. Nikki, what's your number one tip? Mine is basically when you're coming back from a holiday, make sure you have another one booked because that's a great one. We do that. We do that. And when we get holiday, like you know, you know, but you have to have something to look forward to. So yeah, that's really what's your favorite hotel in the world? My favorite is actually in Ireland. I don't have a valley fin. I think there's something magical about valley fin. So yeah, uh mine is the master Al Arab and Dubai design like a super yacht. Yeah. So um so I'll go over to the other channel. Yeah, I'll do it over there. Hopefully. Yeah. Definitely hitting up that. What was your best ever travel experience? Your Japan. The you know, why I think really? It really was. It was sort of a change the way I thought. Now I've traveled all over and I've had lots of lovely destinations, but an actual uh trip that I think changed me. I think that that would have been one of them. I've heard a lot. I know a lot of my friends were on that trip. I've heard that a lot of them is special Nikki. Mine was actually last year too. Um we went from Nevada to Utah and into Arizona. We stayed on dude ranches and I just had so much fresh air and I took time. Yes, two and a half week road trip. Amazing. Yeah. Well, that finally what's one skin tip? He gifted everyone listening. Just one. I think you know what that's gonna be. We're like no. We're like a brother. No. So I'm so lucky. So I'm not to say the same thing. Anti-aging cream and the best anti-skin cancer mechanism you can have. It's just a no-brainer. I'm okay. I'm playing the bass, lyrm and think and remember. Yes. Exactly. You're so scream. Yeah. Yeah. That was incredible. Where can people learn more about you and your multitude of businesses? So our website is Institute of dermatologists. Dolly. We're also on Instagram. The same handle. You know, Institute of dermatologists. We each have our own as well. And we're on LinkedIn too. Incredible. I'll put everything in the show notes. Everything you listed and everything up. When is ID form? Is it? Is there? Yeah, there is. There's actually thousands on the wait list already. So it is out at the end of March. Really? We'll make sure we we reapply at that end of March. This was an absolute pleasure. We're going to have to do part two again. Thank you so much. Thanks Gary. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thank you.