Early Speed Podcast - Travers Preview and Interview with Saratoga Slim

[Music] Ladies and gentlemen, this is the early speed podcast. Season two, episode five, we threw in this episode, and I'll probably name this episode Scott, a love letter to Saratoga. I'm going to ask you about Saratoga, but I think that I think you would agree that might even be a proper way to put it. But before Scott, we dig into that, I don't, I'm usually the technical guy. I don't know if you want to call me that with the podcast, but the website we use changed all. Music? I've tried to be consistent with that, so I've got to throw in some other transitions, which I know Scott. But we do want to start our episodes with what Beastie Boy song should we have intro to, and I'll give you mine first Scott, and then I'll let you give yours. I dug back a little here, Scott. If you're one of those songs called "Posse in Effect", and I really like the beat to that song, and it kind of just gave me the Bob at Saratoga. So that's why I chose "Posse in Effect". Scott, how are you doing? I'm doing great. And as I thought about my Beastie song, I kind of went to your theme of Saratoga love letter, and how I felt, you know, leaving leaving upstate New York that weekend. Kind of felt like I had a new style. So I went with Beastie Boy's new style for the Traverse Prep Special episode of ESP. Yeah, so this episode, we have a special guest, Saratoga. He writes for the writing dudes and does a vlog at Saratoga. Scott and I're going to talk a little bit here about Saratoga, and then we're going to do our Traverse preview. Well, Scott, I'll ask you first. We just got back. We went to Saratoga on Jim Dandy Weekend. That was what three weeks ago. Tell me what you thought of the trip. It was, well, I had high expectations, and it exceeded every one of my expectations. Is the best way to put it in. At the end of the day, the best part about it was how the entire town just embraced Saratoga racetrack. The fact that it was during the meet and the track was open, and they had so many visitors. Every place we went were ecstatic to have us there. They were super friendly, and our experience at the track was awesome. It was just a blast. I can't talk highly enough about it. So I would, from a funny standpoint, I think we went with three other guys. Shout out to Kevin, Jim, and Toe. Shout out. But I think the funny thing is we have so many stories that we'll have forever. I don't think we need to talk about. But we had a great time. I thought about this, and I'm going to ask you this too. But I'm describing it to people. It's actually hard because I never, in my wildest dreams, thought I would come back and be like, that's the best mob of racetrack. Because this wasn't like their, to me, he's a big weekend, but it's not like their biggest weekend. Obviously, Traverse is. It reminded me, Scott, of Keyland, UK football, when there's a visiting team in town. Because there is like, the ball fans, they circle that under calendar. If they have an away game in Lexington and Keyland's open, it's like people tell them like, you got to, when you see other fans at Keyland, the race track. And I kind of got that vibe. You know, I kind of a dumb story when we were you know, you can take a core beer and which I absolutely loved, but we ran out of, but purchased a beer from you. A lot of beer left over. The racist. You want me to come over here. And I mean, they just kept giving us beers. I'll be honest, I don't remember many bad interactions that we had with people besides not having jalapeno poppers at the ball and alley, but that's another story in the sub-sky. Yeah, and at the betting windows. That wasn't the best interactions in terms of the orchard weeks of Lexington. But yeah, so they counted to your point of me when I was talking about it was similar. I said, you know, it's, I said, it has the beauty of Keyland, but it's like twice as big. And it had the vibe of midweek of Derby Week at Churchill Dance. You know, just just kind of the, you know, everybody's excited and there's a certain buzz, but it wasn't Traver's Week. It was just a Friday and Saturday in the, you know, at the end of July, you know, and so it's, I can't, I can't speak highly enough about it. It was super fun. I can't wait to go back. And really, God, we did it for sure. And we got to see the weekend we were there. Look, five of the horses racing and Travers were running that Friday and Saturday. So it was a, it was a scouting trip for us as well. That is right. That thought about is, you know, look, you and I both have sat in great seats at the Derby. We've been in the infield at the Derby. I've had really good seats at Keyland, but I would tell anybody listening for the common fan of horse racing. I can't imagine there's anywhere better to go than Saratoga. I just can't, yeah. The vibe of just the common part of the picnic tables. And then we did, you know, we sat in the stands the second day. And I mean, both days were, yeah, yeah. But two kind of totally different experiences, you know, but equally as fun. Right. What do you want to tell our listeners about if they, if it, what if our listeners want to know about our betting performances in Saratoga, how would you describe that? Well, I would say they got better on Saturday for Friday. I thought we had a cap, okay. Like, you know, I had eight horses. I bet to win finished second over two days. I mean, that's not poor handicap. It was just just kind of missing the market bit. But it got better on Saturday. You know, we held our own. So it was, it was good. I'm looking forward to going back the next time. So I think we even said it's the most fun I've ever had losing money in my life. I think we have that. Well, any other comments on Saratoga? You know, I mean, it just, you know, apart from the track itself, the town was great. You know, I mean, it was, it was, it was super walkable and beautiful and gorgeous architecture and lots to do, you know, whether the track is open or not, it's, yeah, I just came away with a great impression of the entire area. So, you know, shout out to all the locals there and, you know, appreciate the welcoming nature and, you know, helping us have a good time. Sure. Yeah, I think two things Scott and I said, man, I wish I was in this 20 years ago. And I think I texted my wife a day and said, I want to retire in Saratoga Springs, New York. I'm not sure I can afford the extra curricular academic, but it would be nice for sure. So we saw our pick that Scott and I agree on right off the bat. And that five star pick is Cornbread Ham. So Cornbread Ham is a full spectrum CBD. They continue to be a sponsor of the early speed podcast. We really appreciate that. If you want to purchase something from Cornbread Ham, use the code early speed to get a discount. And if one of our tips get you money, the way you can replace is to buy Cornbread Ham with the early speed, with early speed is your promotional code. So there's our five star picks. God, and I know you agree with me. Absolutely. So now we want to introduce our interview. We had a fun time with Saratoga Slim and if you're interested in Saratoga I would tell you to check out, he does video blog. Several times, he actually just dropped one. So I would tell our listeners to listen to him. We had a good time with him. So we'll look at this right over to Saratoga Slim. (upbeat music) Early speed podcast listeners, we are super excited to have with us today, Mike Saratoga Slim's Spectre. Mike is an award-winning horse racing rider and a lifelong fan that visited Saratoga race course with his father every summer growing up in New York. He moved to Saratoga in 2011. 2015 started riding for horse racing websites. He currently hosts the Saratoga Slim backside. - YouTube channel. - YouTube channel. Seriously, I'll tell the listeners to check out some of the biggest names in horse racing. Siratoga Slim, welcome to the early speed podcast. - Jay and Scott, thanks so much for having me. - Well, look, we'll start with a simple question. Tell us about how you got into horse racing. - Yeah, as you said, every summer, went to Saratoga with my father growing up and you always maybe watched a Kentucky Derivby every year pick a horse back in 1987. I think it's the first Derivby. I remember that Ali Shibba won. So just always watch all y'all out in there and Louisville. You know, I'm a big Derivby guy. So you said I won an award and that was for my Kentucky Derivby past thesis that I write for the race and dudes website. So in 2017, I run an online handicap in article award. So yeah, I mean, it's just, I love the Derivby. Always wanted a Belmont Stakes. When it became like a 20 year old, bringing like big coolers of 80, 100 beers into Belmont Stakes. Always trying to see triple crann every year. So then I moved up to Saratoga, as you said, and just been like, wow, I'm at the track. I bet it started following this and I just want to make good bets and now like 11 years later, I'm actually doing pretty good at the track for once in my life. Doing good this year until the Travis Day. So we got to talk about how we're going to make some money on this Travis Day. That's the key thing right now. - That sounds great to us. So part of this show is we're going to talk about our trip to Saratoga. And I'll be honest with you, we both fell in love with the place. Tell us about your experience at Saratoga and how you got your nickname Saratoga Slim. And I just, I just love Saratoga and that's where I want to build my dream house one day there. And I live like 15 minutes south of the track now, but I want to be like, you know, within walking distance. That would be my dream. But yeah, I mean, just always being up there when I started the Twitter handle back in 2015 when I was writing for a website, said just said, I got to come up with something that's catchy and I'm really skinny. So if anyone ever sees me, they know I'm slim. So I've been called slim before. So I'm gonna say, well, if I'm living in Saratoga and people have called me slim before that, then I guess I gotta do it. - Well, I'll tell you what's funny. I texted my wife halfway through her trip and I said, I want to retire in Saratoga. But we had an absolute blast. - Yes, that's the dream. That's the dream story. I just gotta keep on working hard to get there. - So coming off that trip, Mike, we were there for a couple of days. We kind of viewed the track had a couple different track experiences. Once you kind of had the picnic tables by the paddock and some clubhouse tickets, what's your go-to kind of Saratoga experience? - I'm everywhere. If you've ever gone to track with me, those have gone to the track. I do not stay in one place very easily. I'm just too crazy and with back in 2016, I got a press pass for the first time working with the dudes there. So my, I got a route where, you know, like on Saturday, those five grade ones in a row, I got a route where I just go straight from the paddock to the winter circle paddock, winter circle. And that's my route for a few hours straight and boy, seeing those grade horses in the paddock and then seeing those celebrations in the winter circle, watching those races from the winter circle rail. Oh man, it's just right at the finish line like that. Seeing those grade horses come by you one at a time. You know, we're gonna see Jackie's warrior and all the big, you know, great turpers, channel maker and all the Chad Brown horses that he brings into the store dancer. Then you're gonna see all those great travel resources before that Claire Rear, Mala Thought and let's Bruce go to champions that you'll see. And then before that, Jack Christopher and all the other big time, Gunite grade one winners that you're gonna see go up in that jerk and it's just an awesome day. So that's what I'm looking forward to on Saturday. - Yeah, that's awesome. Should have, it looks like it's gonna be great weather for it too. So it should be, it should be a perfect day. - Yes, we're gonna get some rain tonight into tomorrow, which will be perfect because that should all be dry for the race on Wednesday and then yeah, great weather. The end of the week is gonna be in the high 80s. So that should all be dried out and it's just gonna be fast and firm, you know. It's gonna be important to watch the races earlier this week coming into the weekend because it was so deep, was so deep, the inside on the dirt, especially with so deep earlier in the meat and it's kinda sped up a little bit. So it's gonna be very interesting to see if speed starts holding, going into the big Traverse day where, you know. These tracks they love to speed up, those tracks to see those big times and see these courses go so fast. - Yeah, so that was one of the things, you know what I mean. We had a blast while we were there. We've never had so much fun getting our ass handed to us at the race track, you know, in our lives. But, you know, we were ziggin' when they were ziggin' and you know, we kinda figured it out a little bit maybe on Saturday, but what's your advice in terms of betting serotonin like it seemed a bit like a different process to me? - Yeah, for me, I've learned what my strengths are. And for me this summer, I have only bet when I've had a strong opinion and it's been good. And I won't say that at the beginning 'cause I went with my dad and my family first open a week and I started betting those main claimers. I'm not good at those. And I follow the stakes races and I talk to the trainers usually about their stakes horses. So I learn a lot about them, you know, researching for the interviews. I watch for all the replays so that I could come up with good questions to ask Steve. I asked me something about, you know, gun-ite. And that was a big horse that I really loved in the Amsterdam. I got seven of one and that was like, I just picked that spot. I'm like, I'm gonna make sure I make it, you know, I pounded the exacta and I'm just gonna like, when you got a strong opinion, you gotta make them pay. And it's taken me a long time to get to these realizations. I've lost a lot of summers at Saratoga. And it takes time and I'm not saying I'm gonna win. I'm doing well this summer. But I've had some bad ones and I'm just trying to learn my way. And I think that's the key thing just bent Saratoga is not betting every race is gonna be over 400 something races. Pick your spots. Right. So do you, you know, kind of stick to your opinions and let that kind of decide your ticket strategy or do you have, you know, kind of a go-to wager that you prefer, whether it's, you know, exotics or multi-race wagers or whatever that might be. Yeah, I'm mostly a doubles player. Pick three exacta win money. Perfect. That's just usually what I go to. I screwed up. I mean, I tell you, you gotta learn from your mistakes. And some day I had some strong opinions. Actually Saturday I had some strong opinions. I really liked Nast obviously, you know, couldn't lose the free square. But when you have that strong opinion, you know, how do you build around it? And I really like Caraville and the race before that coming off of a trouble trip to Saratoga meet. And I said, oh, you know, I really should be pounding that double. But I got carried out of control. I started betting to pick five. I put too much money into pick five. And I didn't bet enough on the double that I really loved. And, you know, I don't, I don't, once I get started going into those pick fives, though it's, it's full gold and so tough. I went four out of five in the sequence. And it's just so tough to put five races in together. But when you see those big payouts of $10,000 for the pick five, you're like, oh, I could have had that. It really, it could really screw up your mentality. So being, you know, keeping, you know, you gotta keep, I'm trying to find a word, discipline. Okay, that's the word. I took me to the discipline is the key to everything when it comes to our betting on horse racing. You know, I, I talked about the people you've interviewed. And I'm not looking for you to give me something that's my said, but what have you learned? Because it's, and I'll tell our listeners to go to your, to YouTube and look at the live interviews because it's impressive who you've interviewed. Is there something you take from those interviews specifically that help you handy-capping that maybe you wouldn't have had? Yeah, I mean I get to see the reactions a little bit when I asked him about some of the horses and they kind of played against because I asked Chad Brown about Jerry Mander and I thought Jerry Mander was gonna run great in the Alabama and I'm like, oh, that should be a hard That should be an exacted a pound nest over Jerry Mander and Jerry Mander and like crap and I had to deal in that that horse might hit the wall Was only a once-earned horse and hit the wall coming in the stretch and obviously secret of got second behind nest and that race giving you a quick recap of the Race and from last weekend, so I try to read the I try to read the trainers, but it's always trainer talk. It's tough It's tough to Know the trainer talk And what really matters, but I'd like to talk about a little bit of the pace of the races a little bit more I think the the trainers like to talk that about that about you know where their horse might be early in the race Sometimes it just give me the blank Response oh let the jockey Palace where you know where they want to be, but sometimes they'll tell you where they if they think they want their horse on the lead Which is it was helpful when you're trying to put together the pace of a race Yes, that that was one of the things that I found Difficult at Saratoga and maybe maybe it was because of the depth of the track that the dirt track specific land inside that you mentioned, but you know I feel like I do a pretty good job of understanding and and deciphering pace scenarios prior to the race but you know for you know for what I've watched Saratoga this meet and certainly when they were there it seemed I don't know that's like inconsistent, but you know you'd have a you'd have a slow pace where the the early pace didn't hold you'd have a fast pace that it did hold it was I found it difficult to Yeah, find find patterns and and really have a strong opinion Yeah, I think that's if it's like that I guess you you'd say that the track is playing fair and Now every race has its different situations where you might have a strong pace setter that's the favorite and you just wires the field or you'll have a 30 to one shot set in the pace and that horse ain't gonna get the distance so you know It's tough. It's race to race and I won't say that I'm the greatest at spot and biases, but you know, I really like to use the brisnet pace figures When I when I do my pace handicap and and on a big day I'll be looking at the time form about a time form USA Figure it off sorry the past performances and they have that great pace projector That's pretty good so in days when I know I'm gonna have enough time to really spend a few hours You know that on each race, but you know like I might spend an hour or more on a race if I want to watch all the replays And I'm gonna take a look at the pace projector versus the brisnet pace see how fast they're going It's good to be able to look at those different numbers sometimes instead of just looking at the ones in the In some of the PPs that you get Yeah, we've learned Listen to trainers at the Derby. It's like listen to a college football coach before the season They're never gonna tell you they're they're bad right there. They're always gonna say Something but I know with that something is so Yeah, it's it's tough to trainers, you know, they're gonna say the horse is doing great, you know Because obviously they don't want to make sure their own owners feel that way So we actually look at you looks like you did the last six Derby's we've seen you set up kind of a pace scenario for those And one of the reasons we want to have you on the day was to talk about the Traverse now Do you want to tell our listeners we are doing this interview Monday night? So the the post positions have not come out We do know charge. It's not gonna be in the Traverse, but we are Excited and want to hear what you think is gonna happen in the Traverse Yeah, I mean right now it looks like early voting is gonna be the pace setter, you know If you wanted to start from a pace perspective looking at the eight Possible runners as you said tomorrow night. They'll have the Post position draw and downtown Saratoga early voting is supposed to go for Chad Brown and obviously He sat off the pace behind some sheep speed and won the pre-knesk He obviously set this set the Pace in the wood memorial before getting cased down by Modano Gold So obviously a lot of back class coming into this summer And the Jim Dandy Justin and go well I think I just saw a quote from Chad Brown that said hey, he was coming into the Reese all for ten weeks rest He didn't really like like he wanted to race. He didn't look good in the paddock and he ended up in last behind Episandent and Zandin and 20 poor even beat him So I mean epicenter and Zandin he has to beat these horses again here. I mean early voting did hold off epicenter in the pre-knes after epicenter got a tough break and He just wasn't able to Paste him down so epicenter went by him easily in the jam dandy So you know what will epicenter do? Will he go to the lead or try to be sitting off for early Sorry set off will epicenter sit off early voting early in the race That's one of the pace scenarios that may work out or as epicenter did in the gym Dan you guys were there Very surprising that he would go to the back of the pack I mean there was a full horse race. So what kind of pace dynamics really are different between a four horse race We've got an eight horse race here. So I don't think epicenter is gonna be the trailer in the traverse Probably will be sitting in second third or fourth and I'm not sure who else who do you guys think has some speed beside those two in the Traverse No, you know I'll see with the one horse that I was looking at Did actually I've saw that you you've touted a little is arterias, and I know how good irrigate ran At Sir Otoga. What are your thoughts there? Oh? I mean that I wasn't trying to jump to my pick already Well, that's my pick. I mean arterias. I love this horse I was there on curl and day and this was the horse that I was interested in seeing and he did not let me down when I was standing next to him in the Patic it reminded me of the day when I sat stood next to arrogant in the paddock before you won the traverse Just the horse was puffed up. He's tall. He has that Pine gleg like Arrogate when I sit next to arrogant in the traverse the area was my pick in the traverse that day And I wish I won more money. That's when I was earlier in my batting and I loved arrogant I think I don't 20 dollars a win on them and I had a dollar 50 Pick four I hit on arrogant. I want I want pretty good But I'm like man nowadays I would have bet I wrote with this horse because arrogant just was he was the guy coming in in Baffer You know came in with a tender one shot that year and I just was very impressed with our tors the same type of Physique the same type of luck in the paddock just breathing fire and he went out there and he made it to turn off the turn I'm sorry. He made a move off the turn in the curl and that was devastating crushed field and if he does that here I I think I think it's got a big shot. He's a new shooter really and I would have not been that impressed by this by this You know by this group of three-year-olds really. I mean epicenter. He's nice But he's choked twice in the precness and the Kentucky Derby He looked great in the gym Dandy, but those courses early voting and And then you know, they're kind of all just ran against each other For a while and know what they kind of just all kind of beat each other So it's not like anyone's really I mean epicenter did do a lot better in the gym Dandy, but you know Zandin almost was right there with them in the Kentucky Derby and early voting being in the precness So this did just kind of all stagnant and this horse or tors could be the one that could take that step forward What's funny? I did not know that so you were gonna pick the everything I was cash of the 50 to 1 you know the horses are gonna be at long odds Do you feel any of those horses have any shot at all? I mean this is it's really tough because we are friends with Ain't life plan. I mean as far as me I don't I've never met the Von Hamilton But the race and dudes are such good friends with with Kelly and Calbee and I'm gonna go to the barn That's gonna be my next vlog is gonna be with ain't life grand for Kelly Von Hamill and you know the Iowa Derby winner the Iowa bread His course was closing like a damn rocket in the Iowa Derby and Good bit went right by a good horse connoisseur and Man, I just I don't know if the pace is gonna be fast enough because as I said right now With really just early voting certain maybe a slow pace and if the track speeds up and Speed starts hold than a little bit more than it has earlier in the meat It's gonna be tough for some of these closures. I think our tors will be able to sit Close enough and take over if he has that big kick on the turn like he did in the Curling and you know epicenter's gonna be there too. So I'm kind of like thinking That that's kind of my trifecta right now early voting holding on for like third and that percent there and Arturius passing them and then yeah it is going to be someone that comes running the third or fourth and yeah I mean why not throwing life grand on. I'm excited are you for Traverse Weekend? The best they go nuts I mean this is like the one day that I really just cut loose at the track and you know I do a I do a character named Barat Caffer so that's gonna be fun. I last year lost the bat so anyway the story goes we do a fantasy league triple crown fantasy league with the dudes I can't end up in last place so what the the story is is the guy who wins the league gets to dress the guy up in a crazy outfit usually at the breeder's cup but I knew I wasn't going to breeder's cup last year so I'm like I'll just do it at the Traverse that's good enough they're like I'm like 50,000 people at the track isn't good enough for you right I think more people go to the Traverse and go to breeder's cup probably so anyway so anyway I dressed up as Barat so I'm maybe doing some of that at the Traverse this year too so we'll see what happens. Well listen Scott not both one extend to you if you're if you are in for the derby we want you to look us up we will both be at Keeneland for the breeder's cup this year but I did want to give you a chance here at the end for our listeners just to how they find you how they can find your picks where do they go. All right I'm at Saratoga Slim on Twitter so I put all of my vlogs to Saratoga Slim back side vlog all the links for that I probably would just put in videos up on my Twitter feed of me talking to jockeys and trainers this week just to get it up there earlier so people could bring those quotes into their opinions and yeah I mean I'm excited I'm excited for the Traverse I'm doing my top four picks for each takes race will be in the racing dudes guide so go to racingdudes.com and there'll be information on the Traverse Guide where they do a full review full predictions full ticket structures for all of the multi-race wagers and you know they do all the picks so I don't do picks but I do picks for the big days so I'll have some information in there and be talent I'll be on some of the the racing dudes live streams this week so yeah lots of lots of stuff's happened in with the racing dudes. Well we also wanted you know a Scott and I like people that invest in the horse racing community and one thing I saw is is you support something called bestbackstretch.org and actually Scott and I went and gave some money kind of on your behalf to that organization I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about that as well. I did see that before I got on thanks so thanks so much guys for making a donation to best so best stands for back stretch employee services team so BESD so what they do this is the back stretch employee services team for all New York tracks Belmont aqueduct and Saratoga and the back stretch workers is over 2000 working right now with Saratoga and a lot of them they don't have health here they there's no there's no access for them and obviously with COVID and people living so close together in this climate with whatever's going on there's always something going on health is becoming more and more of of something we need to make the back stretch sustainable if we don't have a healthy back stretch things are gonna really fall apart in a game so we take it for granted but BESD does an amazing job would not just health care but also they do a Sunday night dinner every week to provide for the back stretch workers because it's tough for them just you know back there to you know get out and get a nice dinner because it's it's it's this whole busy taking care of the horses and a hundred degree weather sometimes so yeah think about it best go to the website that you just said and right I'm doing is anybody who donates $25 and puts Saratoga slim sentia in the note or just put my name in a note somewhere you'll be entered in an end of the year raffle I'm trying to get some stuff I got old smoke is providing some t-shirts to raffle winners and trying to get some others wind star farm I'm talking to and some of the other farms to try to donate some stuff hopefully maybe they give me a justify you know horseshoe or something to raffle off that would be good let me tell you something Scott now win an old smoke shirt like it'll be a battle to fight it out to see who gets it that might be that might be something good they're the best they're the best shirts but yeah man thanks a lot for having me guys thanks Mike we really appreciate best luck this weekend man hope you hope you crush it everyone check out Saratoga slim on YouTube and check out travelers this weekend at Saratoga thank you hey man we really appreciate that that was awesome you did a great job man that was awesome oh god yeah that was all over the place but it was awesome I just I just started going off so I'm sorry I talked a little bit awesome we lost Scott for a little bit but I think we recovered okay yeah you could go back in that at that part average there was like a few 30 seconds there that was pretty rough yeah no I'll do I'll edit that out for sure nice I mean this man if you're ever up here you reach out to us for sure because we both we both grew up right by Churchill I don't know what the dude's got plans for me for breeder's cup I'm gonna start trying to do some actual I'm doing I'm gonna start doing picks for football it's gonna be crazy like this is my life my life dream has been to actually do football picks and now that they you know my big thing has always been players and you know fantasy players and player props and fit I mean this player crop stuff is so crazy that now it's pretty much legalized everywhere so I think there's except here really oh my god and you'd like this we actually have to drive across the bridge in the Indiana to bet on our on apps and then we drive back oh my god it's ridiculous so that's so crazy that's hilarious but yeah I mean I'm gonna try to start off like a an NFL halftime show for Thursday night and like talk about the games and my picks I'm looking at picks and then maybe do a subscription that's what I'm trying to build it out let's do what happens good luck man good luck with that I'm sure there's a lot of people trying it but you know something focused on I don't like betting the lines and stuff but betting the player props is so much fun yeah anyway let's do what happens man all right man we really enjoyed having you on thank you very much okay thanks to you guys have a good night thanks but first day to man thanks coming off bye all right listeners we're back from our interview I hope you enjoyed what was Saratoga Slim you know one thing with his video blogs it well the other day to say this to him I cannot get it out of my head I'm mad at him for that this jingle is in my head but very glad he came on it was fun time Scott we're gonna tell a beer we do on our show I don't know if you have a beer today I'm do you have a beer that you want to tell today yeah I've been going with the little Sierra Nevada torpedo IPA recently so it's red it's readily available but it's it's nice it's good I'm enjoying it well you're gonna love mine with the Saratoga Saratoga theme I packed in my suitcase on the way home a fiddlehead IPA and it's a beer Scott now really enjoyed when we were at Saratoga so we want to give a shout out to fiddlehead I knew you were gonna pick fiddlehead even before you said that fair enough fair enough I came up with a new segment on the show Scott Scott developed a new nickname at Saratoga on the first day we were there picnic tables there was a group of women behind us and we didn't really talk to them much but at the end of the day we kind of introduced ourselves and we were you know I introduced myself and we introduced somebody else and then we're like this is and we were pointing to Scott and this lady goes you mean "stap man" and I'm like and Scott you know the way Scott digs into his racing forms this lady is like oh yeah he's a numbers guy and I'm like well you kind of got that right that's that's him so on on this question for stat man a segment I came up with like four stats or what I think's interesting about the Travers and you get the pick and tell me which one do you think's the most interesting you download that yeah this would be fun All right, first thing is No jockey in this year's travers has ever won the travers. - That's all that. - Okay. Chad Brown has 30% of the horses in the Saratoga stakes races this weekend, three of which are in the travers. Not this time, so it's number three. Not this time, and gun runner, side half the field in the travers. - And this thing, I did not notice that, that's interesting. - And then, I noticed gun runner, I did not notice not this time. - And then of the trainers in for this year's travers, only Brad Cox has won the travers. And he won last year, obviously, with the central quality. So that leaves Scott, Bill Mott, Chad Brown, and Steve Asmoson, who are pretty famous trainers who have not won the travers. So I thought that was interesting as well. Out of those, which one do you find the most interesting? - Probably the trainer said, you know, I read, what are they like, one for 32 combined, or something like that? That number may not be exactly right, but I think it's pretty cool. - So I think that's close. - Yeah, that's surprising to me. You know, between Brad and Chad, they're, I don't say they're newcomers, but they're recently kind of newish on the scene, last five to seven years, for show. What I really went to was, what chose the impact of not having Bob Aper, Elge Moll for the travers, I don't know how many travers he's on, but I imagine it's quite a bit. - But between Bapper and, you know, Pledgeur doesn't have a horse this year. And, you know, as I think about it, I guess I could come up with a rationale why, but, but, you know, between Brad Cox and Steve Asmoson and Chad Brown, Bill Mott, and they're still legends and kind of leaders in the sport. So, you know, it'll be good for them to win their first or for Brad to win his second. - So let's get into our Travers discussion. And I tried to add a fifth stat, but I couldn't verify it. And this was my stat. I wonder Scott, when the last time the travers was won or run, that you got the number, the first place, second place, third place horse in the Derby. I can't imagine it's happened a ton, but, we match the top three horses at the Derby. You have what, what is four horses that won their prep coming into this, three of which, those preps were at Saratoga. So, epicenter, Cyberknife, and Arturius, all won their preps at Saratoga. - Cyberknife was at Monmouth in the hospital. - Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, well, sorry, I wrote something down wrong there. Sorry about that. And then, Ain't life grand, one is prep coming in as well. You know, so what, I guess I'll start with you. What are your thoughts first on the race itself? - Well, I think it's a strong field. I mean, to your point, you have the top three finishers from the Derby, you know, early voting, who's your pretinist champ, Cyberknife, who won the Haskell, and, you know, Arturius, who's, you know, like, you know, Saratoga's Linn, that was his top pick, and certainly you can see why. You know, he started his three-year-old season late, but, you know, he's done nothing but run well and is a major contender in the race for sure. So it's a, you know, it's a really solid field that lacks a lot of early speed. That's the thing that jumps out to me. You know, apart from early voting, there's nobody that wants to be even cloaked, or wants any part of the early lead, I would say. - So, okay. Can I, let me ask you about that. So do you think one of these horses that's going to be a little bit off the lead? Do you think one of them chooses to go with early voting? - Not to take the lead, you know, I mean, I think epicenter, and Arturius, you know, will likely be in a stalking position. You know, Zandin was kind of stalking in the Jim Dandy, but that was weird, you know, it was a four horse field, and, you know, I'm not sure that that's where he wants to be. Cyberknife has a little bit of flexibility. He could be in, you know, in a somewhat stalking position, but I don't think any of those three really, you know, really want to fight early voting for the lead. This is my opinion. - I agree with that. What's interesting to me is, you know, early voting may be, maybe better as a stalker. So he would probably rather somebody try to fight him for the lead, so he can sit just off the pegs. I just don't think it's going to happen. - Do you think that, do you worry a little about early voting? Just get down there and nobody getting to it. - Well, early voting is my value pick of the race. So, you know, not to just jump into the fix, but, I mean, I think epicenter is the best horse. He's been the most consistent. I think he is certainly, you know, the most likely winner. But, you know, early voting in the gym, Dandy, he kind of made it easy leading. He really didn't have any excuses. Other than maybe how the track was playing that day. He was coming off of the 10 week layoff. You know, what we saw, you know, not just the days we were at, so I was talking about watching throughout the entire meet, is horses have been reacting to the makeup of that track differently. You know, you've seen a lot of favorites just not run at all. Yeah, just because of, you know, the reports and all the talk has been that it's just, the track has played really heavy and really deep. I think that's one of the last couple of weeks they've added some clay to the surface to try to, to try to firm it up a bit. It's, it's running different and playing different now than it did a month ago. And, you know, I mean, I think that. One, I think early voting will be forgotten by the batters. But because of the way he disappointed in the gym, Dandy. And, and I think he's got a real strong chance to get an easy early lead and just not let go. I mean, you know, there's all, look, the first thing I looked at this is, you know, lone speed in the race, like, that's going to want to lead, right? I mean, it's the, and that performance, I look, if you're asking me, like, I'm going to go with consistency here. And I don't know if that's the right call. I mean, epicenter and Zandin really haven't run a bad race. Right? I mean, for most all their career. And, you know, do you think you look back at early voting? And what would happen with it in that race coming forth? And do you just kind of write it off? I do, I do. And I'm taking it as an opportunity to bet him back at that much better odds. Because he's, you know, he's what eight to one in the morning line. And he's a much better horse than I. And, you know, I, you know, if you talk about what spare odds on him, I think the, you know, kind of recency bias there is ballooning his odds up. Yeah, I'm not making excuses for him in the last race. I don't think he really had any excuses, but I just think you'll put in a better performance this weekend. Well, let me ask you about some of the long shots. So, you know, we know the nickname for Sarah Togas, the graveyard champions. So I'll start with Rich Strike. And I really like, when I look at this, or I don't know what to do with it to be quite honest with you. You look at his dad, keen eyes that famously beat American Pharaoh at the Traverse. Yeah. Is there any scenario scenario you like this horse? Well, what would I don't like about all the long shots is that they're all deep closer. And I just don't think that there's going to be a pace scenario that allows them to kind of unleash that upset bit. I think, I think Rich Strike, he always trains well. Like you look at his works, his works are always good. And I'm not sure what happened to him in the Belmont. I could be willing to forgive him for that and kind of throw that out. And include him on the bottom of tickets. I'm just not sure that the pace is going to give him much of a chance to kind of surprise that upset. Spring that upset. Did you see the story about Sunnied Leon for the day of the Traverse? No, it didn't. He's gonna be it another show. track. This is the only race he's racing in and they said they're worried he may have issues. They're like if his flight gets postponed at all. So it'll be funny to watch. He's going to get sunny Leon's going to be rolling in hot to the track. So remember I said that. So our here what you guys say. Our guy, Sarah Toga Slim just picked Arturius impressive performance. But it only had what three races lightly race coming in. But his sour arrogant. I mean, that performance arrogant had at the Travers when I mean, I think is this right arrogant beat gun runner that year? Handily at the Travers. He did and went on to win the classic after that. Right. What are your thoughts with Arturius? Well, kind of the opposite opinion that I have a barely voting. As I mentioned, kind of at the opening of the segment, I think he's an improving horse. He's really interesting. Of the horses, I'm going to leave off my ticket. He's the one that scares me the most. But I think he's going to be overbacked. I think his performance in the Curlin stakes, especially there at Sarah Toga. He's nine to two in the morning line. He's got early or he's got lower morning line odds than Zandon. And the competition he's going to be facing on Saturday is just head and shoulders above what he faced in the Curlin stakes. He's got to step up. He's got to continue that progression in a meaningful way to even compete. And at nine to two, I just don't see the value to take that chance. Not saying he can't win. He's one that scares me the most. But as I'm looking to formulate my ticket, he's won all leave out. That's funny. I think it's the hard thing about this race is there's I mean, I could see six of these horses winning. And I'm like, yeah, well, whatever, you know, I mean, I think that parts tough. And I go back to what I said earlier. I mean, I trust epicenter and Zandon are going to run. I don't know if they're going to win, but I trust those horses. But he's just looking at who he's going up against. So I don't know, that may be the horse that burns me, but I think I'm leaving it out. Yeah. Yeah, I would. And epicenter has been has been the most consistent by far. I mean, he really has not run a bad race all year long. I mean, he's what? He's three or six winning this year. And his three losses have been by a head three quarters of a length and a length and a quarter, you know, and arguably add, you know, at least some reasonable excuses in each of the losses. So he, if I was if I was picking, you know, one horse out of a pool, I didn't want it to be at the center, but, you know, putting a pair of mutual wager on, I think there's, I think there's more value for early voting. Any thoughts on any of these horses? Get me long stocking a life grand guild at age. Now, you know, I mean, they're, you know, I mean, I think all of the light runners, you know, specifically guild at age and rich strike, you know, I think that will be running late. So, you know, I will, I will include them on on the bottom side of some of my tickets. You know, I think they have a shop for third. I think I think getting third is, you know, probably the ceiling for them. Cyberknife is one that I'm struggling with a bit. You ran really well in the Haskell, you know, career best speed rating. I don't think he's going to run back to that number. I think he's going to disappoint, you know, you know, after early voting and, you know, epicenter, you know, I think, I think Xandin will run his race. I don't think it'll be good enough to win. But I'll certainly include him in the exact. Yeah, I'm going to, so I'll tell you I'm going to go with an exacto with just epicenter and Xandin. And on the bottom, I will put early voting. I will put in life grand on the bottom of some of my exotics. I, you know, that horse has been improving with its speed figures. We're really in agreement on Cyberknife. I think that's the one disappoints. It is the only one with two great ones. You know, and it's weird looking at epicenter not having a great one victory. So it is, but, you know, I mean, the Haskell was a great one. And the Jim Dandy was a great two, but, you know, the horses that epicenter beat in the Jim Dandy were better than the horses that Cyberknife beat in the Haskell. You know, I mean, you have, you know, Jack Christopher that's running back in the seven furlong sprint. Obviously didn't want the distance. You know, Tava was probably that was the second best horse in that race. He was a, there's a great three-year-old and, you know, another improving sort, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the class of Xandin or early voting. So, you know, the, the, the great one, great two, I think, can be a business leading. But, um, but, you know, I think, I think Cyberknife really performed well at Monmouth and, and will be, will be overbought because of that effort. The other thing I was going to ask you, but, you know, the, the extra distance that the Haskell is going to be, that's a concern for, and it would be a concern for me with Cyberknife as well. What are your thoughts on the, the going a little bit further? I'm not as concerned with the distance. Um, you know, I mean, specifically because I think you'll be able to set such a moderate pace that he can get into a cruising gear and really save a, save a lot of that energy on the backstretch. Um, you know, it's, uh, it'll, you know, it'll be longer than, then he's ever run because he, he didn't run in the derby. Uh, but he, I mean, he won the freeteness at a mile and three sixteenths. You know, it's, it's only another half or a long further. So, uh, uh, I think he's got it within him, for sure. All right. So if we go back, your picks give, what, give, give, how are you going to, talk about together? I'll bet early voting to win. Um, and exactly with early voting and epicenter. And then I'll put those two on top with Xandin, gilded age and Rich Strike at the bottom. So I said, I'm going to do a, uh, exactly with epicenter and Xandin that I'll do, try, affected with those two on top with early voting, arterious, ain't life, grand, Rich Strike in the three hole. All right. Well, hopefully one of us catches a big. So, um, well, Scott, I had a good time at Sir Toga. I hope our listeners, if they haven't been, they will go check it out. Um, and he closing thoughts for, you know, I will say something funny. We, uh, Scott was in charge of our pick fours and he got so frustrated. He wouldn't do it. And he refused to put pick fours together. And then I tried to start several show pulls and Scott, our show pull did work real well. Yeah. So just for clarity, my frustration wasn't with being able to pick winners. My frustration was with the attention span of you knuckleheads. That was the frustrating part. But that's okay. That's why I'm Batman, I suppose. So, and also, hey, I ran into the press. I ran into Dave Portinoi. He got a selfie with him. So it was just an epic weekend. Um, and I did since Scott had text this week. The, uh, and I think he liked it that the, uh, the, the post draw was it. Brothers, uh, brewery there. We spent some time at. So we thought that was kind of cool too. It was. And, you know, I've always enjoyed the, you know, travel stakes and, you know, it's been something that, you know, I make it a point to Tane to cap and bat, but I'll have a different perspective this year. No doubt about that. So I always, Scott, any closing, any other closing thoughts for you? Well, I'll leave it to you to close it out, Dave. Well, go with your gut. Be responsible, cash and ticket scots. That's what it's all about. That's right. Good luck, everybody.