Early NBA Tier List: Elite Squads, Relegation Teams, and Crisis Candidates!

This episode is brought to you by Amtrak. Good game plans start before you get to the arena. So if you're traveling for a game, make the journey part of the experience. With Amtrak, you can settle into your seat, relax with your crew, and catch the pregame coverage with onboard Wi-Fi. Arrive ready for tip-off. Amtrak Casella and the Northeast Regional connect major cities across the Northeast Corridor from D.C. to Boston. Visit Amtrak.com slash Spotify to plan your next trip. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, a loaded 14-game night of action in the NBA. Last night, we're going to recap all of it. I was at Madison Square Garden to watch the New York Knicks destroy something resembling vaguely the Chicago Bulls. Victor Weminyama, 50-piece. Luka and Shea, 40-pieces. Nikola Jokic, triple-double. Were reports of his demise greatly exaggerated? Moe DeKeele is here. Talk about all that. Some injuries that happened last night. A massive Minnesota win on the road. And we're going to kind of tear out the league as we're reaching the 10-game mark. We're starting to see some tears crystallizing. The top of the East, we kind of know who's going to be there the regular season at least. Top of the West, the relegation zone, just a hearty, fun place. Everyone is just frothing at the bit to be in there. All the relegation teams are like, okay, we're ready. One and seven, one and six. And then eight teams in varying degrees. We're going to rank them from most in crisis to least in crisis. There are a lot of teams. I mean, some of these teams are in the relegation zone now. They definitely do not want to be and did not expect to be. That's the difference. We're going to rank them just as a zoom around the NBA as we get toward the 10-game mark. And teams are starting to settle in to where they're going to be in some fun crisis talk. That's all coming up on the Zach Lowe Show with Moe DeKeele. The Zach Lowe Show is presented by FanDuel. It's the NBA season and FanDuel's calling it your most rewarding season ever. I mean, more rewarding than watching a center pull up from three and actually knock it down. That's good stuff. With FanDuel Rewards Club's offers, surprises, and more, there's plenty to look forward to all season long. Download the FanDuel app to get started. 21 or over in select states, 18 or over in D.C. or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. It's late morning on Thursday coming off a wild 14-game night in the NBA. I was at Madison Square Garden to watch the New York Knicks play, I guess, the Chicago Bulls. It might have been the Washington Generals. I'm not really sure. While that game was going on, the Pistons and the Sixers were battling in a clash. It was a clash of East heavyweights, which the Sixers won to move to 8-1, culminating in Jalen Brown blocking a Cade Cunningham three-pointer as the Pistons were trying to rally. Here's some other things that happened last night. Moe DeKeele, you're here. How are you? Here's some other things that happened. Victor Wembenyama, 52 points, 24 rebounds, 8 blocks. That's a real stat line that happened in a nail-biting San Antonio win against the Mets. Luka, just another 40 spot in another Lakers win and another Kings loss. The Kings did get off the schneid sooner than I thought they would. SGA, just a 42-point routine game, not super efficient. He hasn't been super efficient this year by his standards. As the shorthanded Thunder sweep a back-to-back in Cleveland, embarrassing for the Cavs. Nikola Jokic pronounced dead by Bill Simmons. Dead! 32-10-11 in a Nuggets win against the Raptors, where the Nuggets showed a little bounce. Shea, by the way, moved up to number two in the NBA's scoring. Rays behind Luka, who is flirting with a 40-point scoring average. The third leading scorer in the NBA, the guy Shea Pash. Steph Curry, 38 years old, ageless. He is in action tonight. We also had Minnesota with no Anthony Edwards. They are now 3-2 without Ant. They go on the road in Houston and behind the Lamello Balls explosive fourth quarter. A fourth quarter that combined, Mo, with the Hornets losing in Brooklyn, with Conn Knipple getting hurt again, with Brandon Miller, throwing up a stinker again, is going to raise some hackles about the Lamello trade. And like, wait, wait, what happened? Was this good? Was this not good? We'll talk a little bit more about that. Miami staved off some humiliation with an overtime win against the Clippers. Clatheists everywhere rejoiced. And we had the following other things happen. I mentioned Con. V. Krejci got hurt. He's going to be out for a while with a leg injury. Jared Allen, who's been balling out, got hurt. Hopefully nothing happens there. He seemed to be optimistic it was not. Super, super damaging. C.J. McCollum apparently volunteered to go off the bench. Dylan Brooks kicked Damian Lillard lightly, but still an unnecessary leg kick because that will just happen all the time. Lots of wild stuff in the NBA. Mo, did you get any sleep last night? No, just, and it had nothing to do with the baby. It was trying to catch up with all the games and keep up with everything. Did you also catch Cade Cunningham taking one in the groin from Joel Embiid? I did, and it was, it was, it was, it was not funny. Like the, I didn't, I was, I was watching it when it happened. And he, and I immediately, you, you can tell when that's what happened to what happens to a player. You can tell when they go, but the announcers were like immediately super concerned that Cade was injured. And I'm like, no, he just got kicked in the nether regions and then they realized that. But yeah, a lot of stuff happening in the NBA last night. Mo, how are you doing? You're a new dad. You're sleep deprived. Your house is just complete chaos. All right. How's your, your diaper changing game? What's going on? I think my diaper changing game is like off the charts. Like I'll go up against anybody right now with the level of diaper changing. I got, I have the whole system down. I make sure, you know, I cover him up because you know, if you don't classic cocky new dad stuff, I love it. I'm just going to say it when anybody who has sons knows, if you don't like take the diaper off and then kind of put it back on, you're going to get peed on like that's just happening automatically. So it's just, I kind of have that figured out. I kind of looked at him, realize when he's about to do a good job with the covering up of that stuff. I'm very confident in my diaper changing game. I've gotten so much better than where I was. Maybe the first few days where I was like, Oh my God, what the hell is happening? I'll tell you, there are two things I'm, I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I'm just going to admit it before we get going on the NBA, two things I'd never figured out and quickly just gave up on the swaddle. Couldn't do the swaddle. Didn't want to do the swaddle. It was like, I just can't do it. And installing a car seat, just, just too frustrating. Wife was better at it than I was. I just like, I'm out of the car seat business. Okay. Mo not, not really speaking well of myself as a father, but that's just how it was. I'll say this, the car seat game from my understanding has changed. It's significantly easier now to just put the car seat in than what it was. I think before, because I remember when I didn't help my sisters with it, you got to like run, the seatbelt through this thing and that like, yeah, no. So that was more complicated than it is now back in my day. It really, it really was a test of your, your masculinity, your patience, your selflessness as a human. And I failed just across the board. Okay. We are almost 10 games into the season, which is not as insignificant sample size, still small, but we're starting to learn some things and some tiers have started to crystallize around the league. And we're going to, we're going to get, we're going to get into it. Now we're going to go four tiers top of the east, at least for regular season standings. We're getting some clarity on who is probably going to be there. Top of the west ditto, some clarity on who's going to be there. The relegation zone. They're just partying in the relegation. So everyone is in there just like, let's you lose. I lose. We all lose. You control your pick. Hey, I don't control my pick. Let's get relegated together, frothy relegation zone. And then I have eight teams in their own tier that I am calling the crisis tier. And we are going to rank them. Some of them are in the relegation zone. They just didn't expect to be there. And we're going to have some fun just flying. And in some teams are just in the middle. We're not going to talk about them flying around the league. Moe, the killer. Are you ready? I'm ready to go. We're going to start with the top of the east. And this NBA tier is brought to you by state farm. State farm takes the time to get to know you. So they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Okay. Top of the east. I have four members in this tier, Philadelphia, eight and one 20th in offense. Second in defense, who Boston six and two regular season wins machine as expected. Eighth and offense seventh in defense, Detroit six and two 18th and offense. Okay. No jail and Duren. Let's see how things go first in defense, despite a little bit of a rebounding issue that jail and Duren might also correct. And I'm grandfathering in. The Knicks cause you know what? If you win the championship, despite the fact that you're foreign for four and one in their last five games, not excited that they're starting lineup is that what an adventure this starting lineup is two plus seasons now minus 15 and 95 minutes. So far, not going to read anything into that. We know that we know what the, what this team is about. So they're grandfathered in let's start with the Sixers who go on the road last night and beat Detroit eight and one before the season. Mo I said, I was Fox Mulder about everyone in the eastern conference i didn't trust anybody other than the knicks i can't trust anybody i said in the end there are three teams that i can like swallow hard close my eyes and like reasonably see in the nba finals one is the knicks who i picked two was not in any order but the second was indiana who looked awesome in the preseason and immediately has been decimated by injuries they're in the crisis tier spoiler alert and third was philadelphia and yet i still had philadelphia in the 7-8 bracket in the play-in when i did my standings because i just thought they're gonna be facing endless health issues they're gonna be sitting guys out maybe the chemistry will take a little time although i was never worried about the offense and the one ball problem and all that and it's possible that i just galaxy brained myself out of what was obvious which is that when these guys are all healthy this team just looks awesome and despite the fact that they're 20th in offense i watched them when they have all their guys on the floor it's just overwhelming like you you can't put an undersized guy on jalen brown or lebron james they're too big they're too strong that limits who you can put on tyrese maxi you know you're gonna hide your weakest guy on vj edgecomb and the sixers know that too that limits your options for tyrese maxi who's the best player on the team and the best offensive player on the team and it's just so easy for them to get good shots and they're shooting poorly from all over the floor and when that regresses to the norm expect this to be a top 10 offense when they're healthy everyone is sacrificing they're not all super psyched about it and bead made some comments this week about i need the ball i need my rhythm whatever big fella you're doing what you need to do you're acting as the hub you're making enough elbow jumpers not quite enough not not enough threes but um not any threes really lately and just like last night against the pistons they led wire to wire basically jalen brown had 20 something points in the first half i didn't go back and chart it but i would guess like maybe one of those baskets was self-created like the rest were just in the flow of the offense and that's what i said from the beginning about this team and why i wasn't worried about the one ball problem it's not gonna look like how they all might ideally want it to look for themselves but a maxi is tailor-made to take a slight step back and on ball duties and attack all those gaps are going to open up b lebron is just an apex connector connecting all the dots and c the luxury of this kind of talent is you're going to have hats like jalen brown had last night where you just sort of walk into 20 points because all the attention is elsewhere and because you are a star when all the attention is elsewhere you're even better equipped than 99 of the league to exploit that attention void that's on you and you're just dunking everything and cutting for baskets they look really really good um i'm not sure their defense is this good they are uh allowing a lot of threes uh uh and opponents are shooting horribly from all over the floor but they look every bit like a finals team and and the skepticism now is just can they stay healthy i mean the thing for me first off like that's the easiest 20 points jalen brown has had in the sense of like you said it's just off of other off of every the attention off everybody else everybody else's gravity opened those things up for him and he's able to find those those looks and get those points and all that the thing for me that really kind of stands out too is when you looked at the start of the season when we looked at the schedule at the start of the season that's a pretty tough schedule you know and even now they still have some big games coming up but two and oh against the knicks one and oh against the calves one and oh uh excuse me uh one and one against the pistons you know you're looking at it going like all right we're kind of set up pretty nice four and one against the top the the teams that are above 500 right now you're beating all the bad teams like you're supposed to you're you're banking these games off and rest guys like loading yourself up with wins all of this stuff matters it it's been so fun to watch i was never worried about the offense i've been surprised about the defense and i'm with you like the numbers i think it'll come back to earth but more importantly to those lebron has looked very engaged defensively you know maxi has maxi was always trying defensively but this is the best max he's ever played defensively he he's super like he's been now and then including last night against detroit and he like stood up kade one time like he's just he's really playing well like he's accepted the challenge right of like all right they're gonna come at me i gotta be ready for it and you're kind of seeing all that stuff yes like i don't think they'll finish with the second best defense in the nba when we get to the end of the season there'll be regression there'll be all that stuff but everything you're kind of seeing it's like this all works and then down the stretch it's lebron being the connector and taking care of everybody and if he needs to be taken care of he's going to be taking care of everybody and if he needs to be taken care of he's going to be taking care of everybody and if he needs to be taken care of he's going to be taking care of everybody and if he needs to be taken care of to go score he goes score you know each night it could be a different guy i know and bead wants it to be him every night and like you said he's kind of got to get over that but for where they're set up it's nice and nick nurse has done a good job running offensive sets that incorporates a ton of guys you know and i feel like everyone is bought into like whether they bought into it or not everyone is standing where they're supposed to stand in those sets even if you're jalen brown and you're in the corner even if you're joelle and beat and you're in the corner if you're jalen brown and you're in the dunker spot they're all setting up there and they've all realized like hey like jalen brown even in beat has done this a couple times like if you if they're in the corner and the defense rotates off of them to like help on a maxi lebron pick and roll and the ball kicks to them even if there's a closeout they can exploit that and they're and i think they're sort of realized like oh i could just power drive my way to the rim from this place where i don't spend a lot of time like they're all buying in yeah and so you're getting all of this stuff out out of them it's you know my concern was always just how many games are we going to get as the full squad how many games you know you're gonna i would always say it's like look there's four teams within one with this team their full squad one one and beats out one one lebron's out and one when they're both out and really there's a fifth one when like somebody else just misses the game and i think you're dealing with that was something i was concerned about but now watching them it's almost like they slot right back in and and ready to go i i wish they had maybe a little bit more uh big man depth you know it would with bona is not really going to do much i'm worried about playing lebron too much at the five and stressing him at times and i think that's where you'll start to get a little bit of lebron fatigue but ultimately like i just like the way they're playing and i'm not sure i was fully expecting this coming into the the season they'd still have some big games coming up i had their schedule up here somewhere uh i lost the east is just it's all big games um but you know i just think they're set up the way they've attacked the start of this season they're setting themselves up nicely we're down the road they could say hey big fella take the night off like we we're fine here we have you know we've created a gap we're in the top two like relax for a bit yeah i mean look the number one c would be great top four would be great for me going into the season the only things i cared about for philadelphia were get to the playoffs healthy as healthy as you can get to the playoffs and i think that's what's going to happen and i think that's what's going to happen for philadelphia so i think that's what's going to happen and avoid the play-in just because a it's a risk and b it's also like an extra week where you can rest if you're an older and injury-prone team like the six it's been interesting to watch nick nurse sort of figure out who should play with who um lately the first wave of substitutions have left like lebron and mbd attached to each other with maxi and jalen brown going to the bench and then those guys will come back in um there were some minutes last night i think maxi might have been at foul trouble where both lebron and maxi were on the bench and they were on the bench and they i think that's going to be a full stagger when it really matters and it looks like okay you know 50 on twos the three shooting 11 on threes and there was a play and my rule for mbd is like i just think any any three with 15 on the shot clock or more you just got a bag even if it's open you got a bag and if it's late later than that 10 or less and it's an easy catch and shoot rhythm look sure let it fly the shooting will come up but there was a play in that cup game against new york where he caught a pass on the left wing with like 16 or 17 on a shot clock had an open three look and instead of taking it put the ball down ran a handoff with anthony simons and smacked anthony simons guy with the pick and simons got an open three out of it it's like that's it big fella like the ball will come back to you when you do that so a plus start for the sixers by the way he's always going to get lost actually he won't get lost in the shuffle because he's so goddamn emphatic about everything he does i just could not love vj edge comb anymore the guy's like flying in for offensive rebounds supplying some rim protection like it's chased down blocks extra passes setting some screens when they put the weaker guys on him i love him okay i have a little i have a little comp for edge comb he's a he's a better more skilled version of eric blood so i think where he's just gonna do everything create kind of i like that not not chaos but and he's a better player i don't want to be a better and he's already a better shooter and will never be a liability shooting like eric blood so became right and i think but i think like what you're seeing though of just like i'm gonna come in kamikaze style for a offensive rebound and like he's just doing everything i'm with you on the edge comb love uh i don't have much to say about boston detroit or new york because i want to fly through these uh boston i will just say uh top 10 on both ends interesting that they have true to their word kind of changed the way they play a little bit they're forcing a lot of turnovers and everything. that before they're only 11th and three point rate which for them is like ranking dead last like they forgot how to shoot but they're still shooting enough they get to the rim more they get to the foul line more paul george's a lot of that turnover forcing is because of paul george and his deflections and all that stuff luca gars has been great for them off the bench they allow the most threes still but that's just part of their system and i'm just going to note like only 16 minutes so far for their best foursome of guys pritchard white george tatum has only played 60 minutes and tatum look i don't think he's going to get in the mvp race which we've already kind of talked about like it looks like it could be an insane race with when benyama and luca at the top of it and then some other guys will butt their way in i mean you can't ever dismiss shea or yokich and other guys will butt their way in i just want to give tatum props for his passing he's averaging eight assists a game and it's not the number is fine he's just getting off the ball so early when it's when it's beneficial to do it like hitting guys on lobs hitting the skip pass hitting the extra pass showing like a huge amount of trust in his teammates showing an ability to read the game from two steps ahead and showing an understanding like if i make this early pass it's going to help our whole offense including maybe me he's been awesome as a passer and like driving with more force and physicality i'm hopeful the shooting from three will come up but the rest of his game i've i've absolutely loved yeah and you know the passing really kind of started to show itself in their run to the finals when they won the championship right like that was something where he kind of you started to see him get it where it's like okay they're going to double me i'm not going to get my points i'm going to get off it quicker and just seeing the evolution continue and sort of that sort of that drive sort of become and i'm with you i really do like the fact that he is driving more gets to the gets to the rim more get which gets him to the free throw line more like get easier buckets for the most part and i think that's something that with the celtics we've talked about forever and i think that's been a big thing i still have one sort of like and this is a nitpick of nitpicks i still wish they ran a little more like a cohesive offense and a little bit more actions out of the their stuff but like for the most part they're doing everything they needed to do their shot diet has improved quite a bit they're even getting more corner threes up this season compared to last season i think you know it's it's been a great run for them but it's like we expected with them right they were going to be a regular season monster to begin with um they've been great and i do actually have liked a lot of their first actions on offense the way they flow into their their actions maybe from there is what you're talking about pistons i you know look the pistons are are i took the over on the pistons i made it a lock they're going to win a ton of games duncan robinson has emerged as like a second scorer for them i i don't know how long that's but he plays very well with the sar thompson um they're playing some with you know joe's been out the last few games but they're playing some with like two of robinson herder and joe on the floor which helps the shooting a little bit maybe at the expense of their defense um you know they're still an interesting trade team they're just going to be really good i don't know if they still have if they yet have enough offensive juice around cade for me to pick them to make the finals and the knicks are the knicks and so that's the top of the east apologies to everyone else in the east you don't deserve to be in the top of the east um you don't deserve membership in this theorem so it was interesting though last night that josh hart didn't play and when the knicks get that super shooting lineup out there with like a shaman or mcbride in his spot they're just really really hard to guard and i love josh hart and he's a big member of the team any other notes on the top of these before we move on no i think you hit it the duncan robinson start to the season has been huge for the pistons and really kind of helped elevate them we'll see if that's something they can kind of continue with i like that thompson you know i was looking at the on off numbers and just he doesn't hurt them so much offensively i think whereas maybe in the in the past he has where it's the numbers are at least relatively the same so keeping that sort of consistent will be interesting and then we'll have to see what it looks like whenever they get back uh all right that uh nba tier was brought to you by state farm like a good neighbor state farm is there uh let's take a quick break and we'll move on to uh tier two does that glow show is brought to you by state farm like a good neighbor state farm is there uh let's take a quick break and we'll move on to you by fan duel who's going to be fan duels hardwood hero because all it takes is one player having a huge scoring night to unlock another reward on fan duel here's how it works use your profit boost on any eligible nba bet then if any player across the nba drops 40 or more points that night you'll get another reward and here's the fun part it doesn't have to be a player you bet on check it out on the fan duel app to get started make this your most rewarding season ever with fan duel 21 or over in select states or 18 and over in dc or i own often required bonus issued is non-withdrawable profit boost tokens restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in connecticut all right second tier top of the west i have five members in this tier uh they are the houston rockets seven and two lost last night to minnesota they're still in here first in offense what first in offense okay um i'm sorry second in offense the lakers are first in offense ninth in defense second in net rating do you know who's first in the league in net rating i actually don't i actually was just looking at it this morning and i can't remember somehow some way it is the minnesota timberwolves with a plus 10.9 net rating sixth in offense third in defense they are in this tier provisionally at at six and three um because you know they're obviously good they were in this sort of top six tier to begin with and they're in this sort of top six tier to begin with and they're in this sort of top six tier to begin with and despite not having anthony edwards they're staying afloat as i expected they would uh the san antonio spurs six and two after an oh and two started on six straight tenth in offense fifth in defense the triple point guard thing is working or is it just working because the triple point guard thing they play like literally all of their minutes with victor wimbenyama who is averaging 29 points and a million rebounds in four and a half blocks the spurs are plus 21 points per 100 possessions with wimby on the floor minus 15 points per 100 possessions with wimby on the floor minus 15 with wimby off the floor um they need to figure out the backup five i would like them to never play only one of the three point guards i'd like two of them together at all times uh opponents are shooting a paltry 48 at the rim with victor wimbenyama is the nearest defender that's absolutely ridiculous and boy have they gotten good at finding him on lobs i didn't watch that game but i went back and i watched all his uh 16 baskets and it's like 10 of them were just plopping the ball in man just like throw it up and plop it in i don't know what you're supposed to do about that no he's unbelievable i like what they've ran into they've run the vassell wimby pin downs oh yeah a little bit and they found like good chemistry between those two guys working through that pin down action i think that's something that they could bank on a little bit more i still think there is going to be a come to jesus moment with that three point guard alignment and by the way harper has fox has been super steady he's been shooting well i think they need him in the starting five because of his chemistry with wimby harper has probably been their second best player overall just like super efficient can't keep out of the lane i don't know what you do with castle who's awesome and i don't think you can ever bring him off the bench uh it's a little alarming to me that half of his shots have been threes this year and i understand that's because that's what defenses are giving up even putting centers on him which is sort of the conundrum that the spurs face all the time i think it's going to be more about when's the first game that really matters where they were tobias harris is healthy where everyone's available and it's crunch time and mitch johnson says you know what we're we're closing no castle tonight or we're closing no harper tonight or we're closing no fox tonight and how is that going to go over um also in this tier the lakers seven and two luca another 40 bomb last night first in offense 20th in defense 20 this sounds bad it's like half a point from average and that that was the formula for this team from the beginning absolutely hellacious offense good enough defense um you know i i don't i mean i don't the backup center thing is a little problematic and mamu at center has been a good answer for them uh i mean luca plus 21 with luca on the floor minus 17 per hundred with luca off the floor what else can you say about luca i mean mvp favorite as of now um and just unguarded unguardable it's completely unguardable there's just nothing you could do with him and you know the other thing is he's actually competing defensively he's trying in that way and i think that's something we've seen that before just have to see that carry on through the whole thing his usage rate is absurd leads the league obviously like i think it's 39 he's really just going off and i think for the lakers they need to find a little less luca usage and get somebody else kind of going a little bit more reeves has been really good i still have like but not at the level he was last season whereas i felt like he was going last season before he got hurt it was like this dude's an all-star like it's an automatic and his numbers are great like don't want to kind of conflate it or look at it in a way that's a little bit like he's been bad but going and looking at the numbers just his frequency where his shots are coming from not going to the rim as much that's down from 26% to 19% a lot more mid-range shots from 35% to 47% you know, very little corner threes, but I think that's more of a product of Thibel, LeRae, Zaire, like those, that's where those guys are kind of set up. So he's not going to occupy that space. And he's actually the guy making that pass a lot. But I need, we need to see that kind of Reeve sort of come back a little bit where it's looking around and we're talking about like, he's a potential all-star again. I still am kind of skeptical that they have enough pop on the wing to really, to like make the finals. Although like, look, what we're talking about is we're going to get to Oklahoma city in a second. Like obviously the West is much more open for an interloper out of the Thunder Spurs duo than it was two weeks ago, 10 days ago. And the Lakers are very well positioned to do that. I mean, like if Luka is Luka, they're just really hard to beat. They're just, you're, they're like, you're just not going to roll over this team in a playoff series if they're healthy, because Luka is going to win a game or two just on his sheer brilliance. But, you know, the LaRavia, Williams, Grimes, Thibel combo on the wing. It's just, it's, it's a little just, I don't, I don't know if that's quite enough, although they're all playing well. It hasn't manifested on offense at all. Like they're all doing enough in terms of making corner threes, driving closeouts. The number I have my eye on is they're 28th in defensive rebounding and they're really not any better with Kessler versus without Kessler. And I think that is where like the lack of pop on the wing has started to manifest a little bit. And it'll be interesting to see how they paper over that. But Minnesota, we mentioned a huge win in Houston last night. LaMelo with a super explosive fourth quarter, sixth in offense, third in defense. And honestly, like they weathered Anson's injury. They've weathered Gobert just not being able to make any baskets out of nowhere all of a sudden. And their lack of what, what looks like a lack of depth, like Bones has been awesome off the bench and the Bones-Io combo when LaMelo and Ant are off the floor has been great. Lyles has been fantastic. They've been super solid for them. Terrence Shannon Jr. didn't play last night. He's been good. Barangay looks ready to be a legit backup five. I'm keeping them in this tier because I think they will be, I think they're going to stay afloat enough without Ant to be in the top six and with Ant be very dangerous. I have no other notes. They're just, just, that was a really fun, a really fun win last night over a Houston team that looked a little, you know, they're going to have nights where they look a little clunky, but I have no worries about Houston overall as like a top three. Four team in the West. Yeah, that was a much bigger win for Minnesota than it was a loss for Houston. And I think what you're looking at for Minnesota is that's the kind of win where you're sort of galvanized and saying like, we got this, like we can roll and do and go to work with this. And LaMelo was fantastic in the fourth quarter. And, you know, you're getting stuff, you know, McDaniels has been good. I think you're getting, you know, Kaminga's battling and fighting. Like you're getting a lot of stuff from a lot of different guys. And if Rudy can just make two more shots again, like it's a different scenario for them with where they're at. I'm with you on, I think they're going to be able to stay afloat, you know, and survive the two months without Ant. Well, I mentioned last week or this week, I don't know, all the days when, that their schedule is kind of backloaded in terms of a lot of their difficult game. More of their difficult games are post-January one than pre, which I think will help them stay afloat. I fully expect this to be a top six team, despite Ant being out. And LaMelo was great in the fourth quarter, had six turnovers in the game, but was good. And Kaminga, look, if he's going to defend like all hell and make corner threes, like that's, and run the floor, that's perfect. That's all they need him to do. And they are a, a physical, there's like a physicality and a nastiness to them when they have Gobert, Kaminga, McDaniels, and like Ant's not playing now, but those four together, it's like, they don't have a big beefy traditional power forward, but they just are just big and mean and athletic. And Kaminga is forceful. It's just not fun. They're not fun to play against. No, no, not at all. Shout out Oklahoma city. Just down off from last year, from the guys they lost in trades to the guys they lost via injury. Caruso finally came back last night, down a full team of dudes basically. And what do they do? They go to Cleveland and they win two games in a row. Shay carried them over the finish line in the first one. They blew out a desultory Cavaliers team last night. They are not in the top of the East here, Mo. They will feature. They will feature later in this podcast. Shay is up to 30.1 a game, four and a half assists, four and a half rebounds, not quite shooting as well as usual, but they are plus six with him on the floor, minus seven with him off the floor. Interestingly, they're, they're not forcing a lot of turnovers on defense. So they're really having to scrounge for these wins. It'll be interesting to see how much of that ticks up now that Caruso's back, but without Wallace, without door, without J dub, they've clearly lost that sort of gear, which was so critical for their offense. And the one, the one guy I want to shout out to you guys, Ken, Rich Williams, just he's joining the Najee Marshall club of always happy to have that dude around. You need me to play the three. I'll play the three. You need me to play the four. I'll play the four spot minutes at the five. Sure. What the hell? We have nine centers, but probably don't even to do that. He's shooting 50% on threes, keeps the ball moving. And Isaiah Hartenstein, you know, I was talking about all the different paths that thunder could take with this season in flux. And one, of them, I said, the most likely one is Stan, Pat ride it out, win enough games and, and see what happens at the end of the season. The big trade one, which I would consider the least likely would involve. And I said, is Hartenstein the salary that you would put in because they have so many centers with a die Mara looking ready and Sorber here and, and Chet Holmgren coming back and Jalen Williams who missed last night's game. And just the more I watched them play without J dub and case and Wallace and all these guys, they're missing. He just looks too essential to throw into those kinds of trades. And he looks more essential on offense than defense. His passing his floater as a fail, but particularly his passing and screening he, he and Shay won them that first game in Cleveland. And, and I, I, I would dial back the like fake Hartenstein trades, but that's just me. The, the passing from him has been something I've always loved about his game. Like that was a big thing when he was with the Knicks, you know, remember when he was with the Clippers and was able to kind of, you know, facilitate offense from the elbow and being a guy that can set stuff up from there. So I think, especially when you're the thunder right now and in the situation where you're, you know, you're down J dub, you're down your second playmaker. I don't think you can afford to lose more playmakers. So I think losing Hartenstein who, who can be that guy who not only just makes Shay's job a little bit easier, but can find the back cutters and the guys that are going to be moving and, and, and, and cut into the rim and things like that. Like I, I just think, I think he's too valuable right now to, to the team as a whole that you can afford it. And I mean, as deep as they are with their big guys, we also just know how thin that can be very quickly, how that can get thin. And you're in a tough spot in that moment right away, unless you're getting blown away by the offer. I just, I don't see a, and I also don't see anybody out there that automatically I go, okay, the thunder should use Hartenstein. This is going to bring like, I don't know what's out there. Isn't really something that I feel is very appealing to the point where you're going to make that move. You know, if Wallace and Jalen Williams are out for the season, I don't think the thunder could win the championship. If it were just Jalen Williams, I, I think they would, I talked about, you know, if you thought they had 25% chance to win the championship, knock it down to 79%, whatever it's, it's closer to it's smaller than that. Now, to me, this is still the, I'll wrap this up by saying to me, this is still dispersed, dispersed to lose. Like if the spurs are healthy and one B's healthy, I think even, you know, with Minnesota looking good in the Lakers, looking good in the rockets, looking good. This is still dispersed conference to lose as things stand now. And it just sucks because Oklahoma city looked like they were really ready to come roaring back and snatch their perch back at the top of the West. Apologies to the six and one blazers who sit atop the West. Can I just see a little more before I put you in this tier? That's fine. The six and two Grizzlies suddenly plummeting down to standings on the two game losing streak. I need to see a little more in the five straight wins. Golden state wars. I talked a lot about Yaxo mania on Monday show. They played tonight against who did they play tonight? So Miami. So maybe next week you will be in this tier. Okay. The relegation zone, just party time in the relegation zone. It's insane. The bucks are one in seven. Really not a fun watch. I can't, I can't really get excited about watching. It doesn't get you, get you juiced up. I'm excited that he's starting because really, I just want to just feed me burries and amen and Yaka Jonas and where, and Hawkins has been outstanding for them all season. Do what you want with hero, whatever. Now they're interesting because they do not control their draft pick. They, they, and it's very complicated. It new Orleans and Atlanta. If I'm reading this, right. Let me just bring it up. So I have it. New Orleans gets first dibs on. Let's see. They received the more favorable of their own pick in Milwaukee's first round pick. And Atlanta gets the least favorable of those two. There is a scenario. If both of them are in the top, top four. New Orleans gets both of them milwaukee doesn't get a pick no matter what um so they don't care about being in the relegation zone in fact uh they may prefer to be in the relegation zone i have no other interesting things to say about the bucks do you have any other interesting things to say about the bucks no there's nothing to really you know i got lambasted mo when i had the bulls like 25th or something in my league pass rankings and the reason they were there is you know like it's caleb wilson's super exciting like there's no doubt about that he's gonna be the rookie of the race he looks like a future star he's a little thirsty right now hunting points but i don't really care because i'd rather watch that than anything else the bulls can do i just was like they're gonna be bad and potentially really bad and like watching the bulls get their brains beat in night in and night out is like doesn't it like after eight games you're like oh oh this isn't that exciting i can't believe how bad they are they're one in seven uh they are minus 17.5 per 100 possessions which is 30th in the league last it's almost five points worse than the kings um they have absolutely no chance on defense they are 29th on defense the 30th team is coming up they're starting five of powell sticks giddy buzellas and caleb wilson is the worst lineup in the nba minus 40 worst plus minus um and i i was at msg last night and the degree to which they were just instantly overmatched was a little alarming um and it's it's pretty like they have caleb wilson buzellas has looked a little lost at times this year but i'm not worried about him yet he's still averaging 13 again i'm not worried about him yet and you watch them and you're like how can this team which hasn't been good in a while and is now properly bottoming out ironically at a time when it is less profitable than ever to bottom out and more profitable than ever to build from the middle and tread water which is what they were doing for six years and why our tourists and eversley were fired um how how do they have so little talent on this team like nothing to be excited about other than wilson and buzellas and then you're like oh yeah they took patrick williams with the fourth pick in the draft they traded caruso for josh giddy instead of getting multiple picks for him um you know as senge we'll see he doesn't look like all that much to me he's more of a spacer on offense than anything else a solid defender i guess swain we'll see um they got nothing for trading levine and derosen basically or you know um and and uh and the vooch trade was a disaster uh and it's just like all of that just seeps into the future and it's like they're really just they have very little other than caleb wilson and buzellas and it's going to be a long haul and again the irony is they own their pick they are the team that should like not want to get relegated um and the irony also is if they had more talent they probably wouldn't have bryson graham as the gm they might not have caleb wilson but anyway it's they are they're very very bad and i don't like when i watch them i guess i'm just looking for buzellas and caleb wilson have a little more chemistry together and buzellas to figure out his place in the world but i don't know man i don't know what i don't even know what you do with giddy whose contract is fine i just don't know like what the point of him is like they need a point guard but he's not the right point guard for this alignment of players and it's not even like the the trades you mentioned and then even look at the fact that like they didn't get much for io they didn't get much for i forgot about for kobe white like they got you know i think they get they got mostly second round picks which sure like i don't want to poo-poo that but for the most part you know the guy rob dillingham and okay like that's nothing like i feel like the the way they've kind of gone it is very chicago bullsian to finally decide to take in a year when it's you shouldn't be taking right like they've waited so long to be okay we knew for a long time the derosen levine vooch thing wasn't gonna work they had that one run where it was with lonzo and then lonzo got hurt and then they fell apart but we knew since then like all right this thing has kind of run its course and they were just like nah let's let's push forward and see if it's you know let's let's keep going till the ship completely sinks and it sunk and now you're underwater and i just think it's a brutal position to be in listen caleb wilson's gonna be fun to watch we're gonna you know hopefully have an unbelievable run with him in his time with the bulls but they just gotta start figuring out talent and yeah gotta find a way to get off giddy obviously i don't think attaching an asset would be the case but you need to you need to just kind of start building from the complete ground up yeah i mean giddy giddy's a good player his numbers are all down across the board because he's not shooting well and also like i just think everyone is trying to figure out other than when we're on the break in transition like how are we running this offense we don't our center is more of a pick and pop center claxton's injured whatever um pat we got a lot of patrick williams last night at center because they were getting they were losing by 40 basically at the half giddy only has this year and two years left 25 million each um flat so it's a good contract i'm just like it's a weird contract where it's not a bad contract it's an okay contract i'm not just really sure who wants to pay josh giddy 25 million and certainly who's willing to trade you good stuff to do it he i don't know it's just a weird a weird fit uh the kings one and seven i've talked enough about the kings they're awful uh i'm i am generally pro a cuff in this sort of a cough noise a cuff noise like there's just so much he's empty calories he's selfish he's getting the keys he is getting the keys he's driving the car in the autobahn there's no traffic lights but i like to see a 12 assist last night i like his passing enough like i think he's something um they own their they control their picks so they should be fighting against being relegated the brooklyn nets are two and six 27th in offense 16th in defense they do not own their pick right it goes to houston this year um and so they should be fine being relegated uh because you almost want your pick to if you don't control it to pop up seventh eighth or ninth so that the you know consecutive number one rule doesn't hurt you the next year the three consecutive top five rules a rule that could be very important for the memphis grizzlies this year doesn't pop in uh you know i talked about troy already on monday uh mikhail brown jr had a good game last night i like him i don't know what do you think of him i liked him i was watching him last night i kind of like the way you know his bounce off of it i think you know the the way he's able to get in the lane and attack and kind of read the floor a little bit has been good i'm i'm i'm pro mikhail brown with where we're at right now i i like what i've seen so far in you know the amount i've watched of brooklyn he's got some snap to him uh he he's he's a snappy passer he'll hit that pocket pass early um the way he moves on offense is just it's hard to grasp for defensive players he's got some snap to him uh he's he's a snappy passer he'll hit he's easy he's a snappy player um by the way highlight of the next the net season so far honestly uh they beat the pacers on the road the other day and i don't know what's going on with the pacers rim microphones or if it's if it's just the crowd is quiet it it picks up everything and i don't really know what happened um michael porter jr made a free throw and mo wagner was the inside rebounding guy and before he went back on defense somebody he just said to liar liar pants on fire and went back on defense like what is what he's always stirring something up it was unclear who he was talking to i don't know that i've seen it i've heard an adult person say liar liar pants on fire unless they're talking to a child um anyway uh and then the clippers who spoiler alert mo do not control their own pick because they never seem to control their own pick they will either get the nuggets pick or the raptors pick a deal that doesn't look quite as bad for them now as it did a month ago uh and then the clippers who do not control their own they stink and uh keaton wogler's all right i need to see them a little bit more i have nothing interesting to say that comprises our current relegation zone tier in terms of like teams that probably should have expected to be in or around the relegation zone any notes on any of these teams uh just the wogler stuff pay attention to his minutes they've been kind of fluctuating a little bit and i think you know he he had a really good second quarter yesterday and then they kind of buried him the rest of the way and then they lose in overtime you know it's it was something where i was a little bit like i would have liked to seen a little more wogler at the end of that game and kind of giving him a little bit more reps um yeah i don't you know what do you plan for really uh i'm excited for niederhauser to come back i want him i want him back soon um and yeah i don't you know these teams can be rough here for these teams all right let's take a break let's get to let's get to the beaten potatoes mo the crisis tier coming up there we will be back in just a few minutes but before we do that let's take a look at some of the highlights of this week's episode let's take a look at some of the highlights of this week's episode let's take a look at some of the highlights of this week's episode having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or eoe can mean you're stuck having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or eoe can mean you're stuck in many ways like cutting your in 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It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, setup required, compatibility, and availability varies 18+. Here we go. By the way, not in the relegation zone tier, rather emphatically, the New Orleans Pelicans have won four games in a row, after beating the Jazz in overtime last night. The Mavericks are a solid 4-4 after almost beating the Spurs last night. Those teams and the Wizards 4-4 did not expect to be in the relegation zone, don't want to be, and have been fine with Anthony Davis and Trey Young. It would be nice if Trey Young could shoot some threes. A little worried, by the way, about Trey Johnson, who can't really make a shot right now, and I'm not sure he does enough of anything else to entice me. He's kind of a wild player, but love Keyshawn Jordan. Okay, enough talk about those teams. I have eight crisis teams, Mo. Eight. Okay. Eight teams in various degrees of crises. In no particular order, and we're going to rank them from least in crisis to DEFCON 1. The eight teams, and again, like the relegation zone teams aren't here because they probably didn't expect to be good. In no particular order, the Utah Jazz, 1-7. Jeez. 29th in offense. 24th in defense. 27th in net rating. Yikes. The Miami Heat, 3-5. 15th in offense. 20th in defense. 21st in net rating. A thrilling overtime win over the Zombie Clippers last night, punctuated by Klay Thompson. Hitting a go-ahead three. Klay hit a million threes last night. Bam had a lot of points. Andrew Wiggins barely played in crunch time as Klay and Pella Larson got his minutes. He's. I think he still has attempted like six free throws the whole year. Orlando, 2-5. Mo, you're not going to believe this, but Orlando stinks on offense and half their team is injured. I know it's going to come as a surprise to you. I would have never expected it. You could have given me 50 guesses. And Franz Weidner can't hit threes. The Cleveland Cavaliers. We are now officially, for the first time this season, the Cavs con scale has been activated. We are elevated. We're elevated from Cavs con five, which is everything's fine. No problems. We're going to Cavs con three. We're skipping Cavs con four because they came out and took a dump on the court last night against Oklahoma City. They look like they didn't want to be there. Jared Allen had a knee injury. He said over after the game, according to Chris Fedor's reporting that he felt that he's all right. He's been dealing with some new stuff. Hopefully it's nothing. Four and four. Ninth in offense. Hooray. 21st in defense. 15th in net rating. Like what I've seen from Malik Thomas and Tyrese. Proctor on the back end of the roster. Their starting lineup is minus 32 and 74 minutes with Peyton Watson on board. He's been injured the last two games. The only lineups worse than that in terms of raw plus minus are the aforementioned bulls starting five. And of course the Kings starting five. The Charlotte Hornets three and six dead stinking last in offensive efficiency. 17th in defense. 26th overall. Kobe White just came back. They declined Tijon Salon. Tijon Salon's fourth year option. That is an absolute disaster for a rebuilding team who could have had Donovan Klingin could have had Zach Eady and has a, you know, Moussa Diabate is fine, but I don't think he's going to be the long-term starting center on the next good Charlotte Hornets team. Let's see the Phoenix Suns. Oh boy. One in five. 12th on offense. 30th in defense. 25th overall. The Indiana Pacers three and six. After a win last night over Memphis, an improbable win where they had all their starters, except for Halliburton Zubats is back three and six 22nd in offense, 15th in defense, 20th overall and the Denver Nuggets, the only winning team in the crisis tier four and three after they had a little juice in them last night. Well, I caught that whole game Raptors at Nuggets. They looked previous their last couple of games before this, even a couple of wins. That's like, there's just not a lot of life in this team. There's not a lot of snap and I'm not talking about like athleticism and Aaron Gordon, not popping anymore. I'm just talking about like Yoko looked a little passive by his standards and like, you know, when the Nuggets are rolling, it's fun, it's rollicking, the ball's flying around. There's cutters. They're getting out on the break. They just didn't look like that. And their defense has been dog do all season 15th in offense, 23rd in defense, 18th in net rating. Those are eight crisis teams. Are you ready to rank them or I rank them? You can agree or disagree with my rankings. Well, I, I also ranked, had my, had my ranking. So I went, I went through it too. So I'm good. I think we should start from the most in crisis. Let's start with the good stuff. Let's start, let's start out hot. Who is your number one most in crisis team? You just talked about it. It's the Denver Nuggets. Wow. I had Denver, I had Denver sixth in my crisis rankings only because only because they at least have a winning record. But they make the case because I think the case can be made. No, I think just everything we've seen from them so far has been, you touched on it already. Just like lackluster doesn't look like there's a lot of movement in, in the excitement to play level in, in that area, you know, when we're, we're all getting fired up about Brazil being there, you know, the unbelievable, and he's been fun. He's been great for them with the athleticism, but like, that's it. We're not really juiced up with a lot of guys. Cam Johnson's out with the, the, the hamstring again, came back last night, came back last night and looked whatever, but like you're, but even then it hasn't really lifted up. Christian Brown hasn't really had the, the lift that, or the bounce back that I think people were hoping or that the nuggets absolutely needed. There are flashes from Jamal Murray where Murray will have a game here and there where you're like, okay. Yeah. Like he's been good 25 and you're going through that stuff, but Jokic looks like he's going through the motions. You know, Aaron Gordon, the hamstrings are just a ticking time bomb. It feels with everything we have Bagley has been good as their backup setter, like, and he, and in, in that regard, but at the same time, it's like, how sustainable is that? Where are we going to live in that realm? Like everything I've just watched with them. I just, I'm sad when I watch them, you know, Speaker 3: Let me, let me, let me tell you this. I saw Bill's apex, you'll catch thing. I think it's that's a little premature. He is averaging 23, nine and nine. He looked aggressive last night. He looked like he wanted to get in the post and run some people over last night and, and like cut hard for floaters and all that. I'm going to give it like 25 games before I pronounce dead apex Jokic. But the body language doctor who lives in Bill's house, I think he lives in Bill's pool house is, is is alarmed by nuggets games. And here's the tell for me. They're 23rd in defensive rebounding and they're worse with yoga on the floor. And that used to be an area where they were like impenetrable. Like it didn't matter who they were playing. It didn't matter if they had five straight games against elite offensive rebounding teams. Yeah. Maybe one or two of those teams would get decent offensive rebounding rates. He was a one man defensive rebounding, like stabilizer. And that just hasn't been the case this year. Murray's been good. I think Christian Brown's been good. 15, a game 42% from three. Gordon just has no pop. I think he's the one that's been good. And he's been good. Yeah. winning record because they ain't here to be four and three their payroll ain't here to be four and three they've traded a bunch of draft picks and they got one back from cleveland in the payton watson deal hemorrhaging talent left and right um and you know there's a reason why when when we did our free i think it might have been you i can't remember when i did our preseason podcast you know your most surprising guy who could end up being traded maybe it was howard beck i said jamal murray just because if this team isn't good i think something something is going to crack here look i'm not closing the door i'll just say i'm not if they're not good and i and i still think like i took the under on them at 48 and a half which was startling maybe 49 and a half i don't remember what it was i took the under i was the only one that took the under i which startled me because i just have that much faith in yokich if they're like a run-of-the-mill team i'm not closing the door on anything, but they were not my number one crisis team. Would you like to hear one crisis team. Would you like to hear? who was my number one crisis yes the phoenix suns number one crisis team in the nba one in five the worst defense in the league now they've been just getting drilled by opponent jump shots that will normalize um you know to really be high on this list you have had to have mortgaged a lot of your future for a team that isn't good and boy howdy have the phoenix suns mortgaged a lot of their future and they just don't they just don't look good like you you you can you can't even pinpoint like one or two things they just look pretty meh um the center i mean malawatch is overmatched against good offenses at center and the jail and green thing isn't working they're they're just their three-point shooting numbers are okay they just don't have anyone even booker that anybody is worried about shooting threes their spacing is horrible um the lack of a point guard in the starting five stands out like a sore thumb they're just way better when goodwin and gillespie are in the game and there's just like i mean look i hate to say it devin booker 57 million 61 million 65 million 68 million player option in 29 30 bill pitched to me the idea of bam for booker he said that on his podcast before a deal that makes sense for both teams and i've said to him over text like i just don't think miami is doing that and it's not even because bam is like the cultural touchstone and mr. he and he is but like bam this year 49 53 57 that's it three years 49 53 57 booker 57 61 65 68 so it's like 8 million more a year plus another year at almost 70 million it's a bat it's not a good contract i'm sorry and this team like they got one crap 20 29 pick like least of a million teams in a row in uh the bridges trade in exchange for one of their unprotected picks you could make the argument that they are in the single worst long-term situation in the entire nba even worse than a team that just got docked five first round picks for cheating um they were number one where did you have them i had them low because and i think part of me for this with my exercise my part of this list is i've weighed heavily on like what did i expect them to be coming into this season what did they expect them to be mad ish be a one on a freak 0 : I mean it's like we had a freaking victory tour last year for a 45 win team or whatever they were like we figured out the formula we lost kd we got all these hard-working dudes it turns out they're just not good 3 : No that's the thing like your your whole run last season of like we've changed the culture you know and i like jordan as a coach like we've changed the culture dylan brooks has changed us completely none of that lasts after you have the first run of that you have to come back next season and you can't just bank on that you actually have to have talent behind it you know mark williams injuries of really hurts them malo watch having not really developed at all and still looks two years away from being two years away oh is the problem we're channeling fram for sure so you know you're having issues with where you're at with that like i had them low i had them seven because again it was what i i didn't expect them to be really that good i didn't i maybe had them contending for a playing spot i did not have them one in seven with where they're at and and the stuff there and i think the problem with 3 : You know booker's contract is really going to be difficult to move you know you maybe can catch somebody that's desperate for a star but i don't know if you're going to get the hall you think you're going to get back you know the idea that hey maybe we could try to get booker to houston to get our pick back i don't think houston's doing that i don't think there's you know a lot of appetite for that stuff and i think the the run booker had a while ago has kind of like crescendoed and i think everybody's kind of like he's fine 3 : But there's not they're not blowing up the phones trying to get him and i think that's sort of the challenge 4 : Does he want to be there for the rest of his career he's said all along that he does he's living now that this team looks dead in the water for the foreseeable future uh i don't know i mean if he wants to be there he wants to be there if if they decide at any point in the next four years that they and they have said all along that they want him to be there forever too i think we could be like three years away from a less depressing version of the russ for john walsh kind of trade where the only trade that you can move a guy like this in is for another guy on a contract that is very hard to trade and then booker's an all-star it's not like we're talking about that's what i mean by less depressing version he's still an all-star caliber player you know but he's in that all-star tier where like maybe he makes it maybe he doesn't not like it's a shock if he doesn't make the western conference all-star teams um slightly problematic that model watch looks far away um ikedar was fine like a good backup center rashir fleming fleming can't get on the floor and he was again a ballyhooed like they traded up or purchased the they traded up to get that second round pick um ryan dunn you know i'm not really sure what he does he's fine he's like an okay defensive player sometimes he plays sometimes not in the rotation at all sometimes he plays some backup five because that's just how desperate they are for centers koa pete's not playing point being the young talent in the pipeline including jalen green who's only 24 and i just doesn't feel like he's going to be long for the suns i don't know when or where or how but um depressing all right we're just going to go down my list and then you can tell me where you have them uh second most sec number two on my crisis rankings i had the jazz where did you have the jazz i had them four okay so we're almost aligned on the jazz who are one and seven and just obviously jaron jackson jr is hurt he's hurt a lot um that's part and parcel and i think there's an interesting conversation i think there's an interesting conversation i think there's an interesting conversation to be had comparing the jazz and the hornets who are also on my crisis list both of them made step back trades in the lamello ball trade for naz read and draft assets was the hornet signaling like we're prepared to take a step back now to take a step forward in the future in a lot of different ways we don't need to re-litigate that whole trade i am like one of the highest on the mellow that there is but you know it's a trade that made sense in a lot of ways for both teams the jazz made that their version of that trade with walker kessler like we just the lakers between the money and the picks it was just too good to be true they had to take it and the difference is utah when you have lowry marketing and jaron jackson junior team in the absolute apex of their primes their late 20s wherever they are like you're not really built to absorb or take a step back like that's not where you are in your time tip whereas the hornets with kahn knipple and brandon miller are at that point in their timetable much more so than the jazz and they're just like this is just a team that i'm astonished by how little sense it seems to make on the floor and part of it is they seemed primed to like really go for a playoff spot and then made a trade that they knew was going to hurt their team doubly so with yusuf nurkic still out they're way too reliant on jackson hayes now jaron jackson is hurt keontae george and darren peterson have like negative chemistry and we're like two weeks away from the from the did utah make the wrong pick thing becoming a big big national story and i think that's premature but darren peterson looks unsettled unsure of what he should be doing on offense uh he's been benched in a couple late games he's not shooting it particularly well he's not getting by guys easily which is not surprising to me based on what i saw in summer league and stuff but it's just keontae george is holding up his end of the bargain nobody else really is and and for them to be one in seven in after tanking for four years to get to this point is now they're fortified with assets from that kessler trade but it's it's ugly man and i think patience is going to run thin among jazz fans pretty soon hey patience has got to run across all of them you know this is will hardy was finally supposed to have a team that he was going to be able to coach and compete with and granted injuries or whatever we talked about it not long after opening night or the after their first game where i said you know that was a very troubling loss where they got their asses kicked on opening night by the grizzlies in memphis and i remember just thinking like huh like if you're trying to be a team that's we're going to let everybody know we're ready to compete you can't no-show game one you know and i think that was the thing where it was immediately like troubles a brewing here and this is very concerning with everything that you have and yeah darren peterson hasn't really stepped up in the way you would hope you you thought you were going to get when you're drafting him as high as you did and you're not really seeing that stuff and then it is troubling you know you go look and it's like he's not even out there in crunch time you know the uh uh a few games ago when they took san antonio to overtime it's really sensible that's really the guy that was making all the big shots and keontae george and and you know i think we're we're all in on the george fan club and i love what he's doing but i just get really concerned with like all right so now what do you do i don't know where you're at yeah i thought the two combo guards thing was a smart construction and that like okay neither is a traditional point guard but both are pretty capable like or have been in all their stops like kind of number one-ish ball handlers who are like good but not great passers we flag passing is a weakness on this team and i think they're pretty capable and i think they're pretty capable and i think they're pretty capable and i think they're pretty capable and i think they're pretty capable all the jazz fans yelled at us like wow we need to only get an assist right how can we be a bad pass you know you're a bad passing team you don't have a lot of good passers and i thought maybe they would sort of like combine two decent passers who could also shoot on the move and off the drill considerable and it would add up to more than the sum of its parts it's actually added up to less than the sum of its parts and it's made me wonder like do they actually just need a guy who's an a plus pastor an a pastor somewhere on this roster uh and it's not one of those guys and i love chianti and ace bailey has been like shooting a busy jesus out of it from two not from three love his defense but this is just they need to get healthy asap or else this season is going to slip away from them and that's a disaster okay number three on my crisis rankings i'm guessing i had these guys a little higher than you i have the orlando magic uh who played tonight against the phoenix suns in a crisis battle battle of the top three two of the top three crisis teams where did you have the magic i had the fifth all right so a little lower than me i just think like cool it's year four of like well we can't evaluate this team you know powell and franz are one of them's you know powell and franz are one of them's you know powell and franz are one of them's you know powell and franz are one of them's always hurt well in year four or whatever i'm just making that up you're now like a tax team that hasn't even paid anthony black or decided what the hell you're going to do with him sugs is hurt again and at some point decisions have to be made the money is going to make you make decisions soon i would be like blown away if this team looks the same after the trade deadline as it looks now and again i'm the door is open for me i'm not dismissing anything as a possibility i'm just what can you say they're two and five their depth stinks um and it's been exposed because now their depth has to play more and they're always injured and they can't score and they can't shoot and it's the same old song different looks different they're running sexier stuff and guys are moving and cutting and all that stuff cool it still amounts to the bottom six offense in the nba i i fell for the banana in the tailpipe in the preseason i swore to myself i wouldn't get excited about them and then you hate this team and you turn quickly i don't know what happened to you very quickly and it i got 10 minutes very excited about seeing relative offense being set and run and i was like oh my god there's an actual offense there like there's something there they're they're figuring this stuff out and then of course you know like lucy with the football it gets ripped away so i'm i'm back to you know like this is ridiculous i think the problem too is they constantly kick the can down the road road with the evaluation because the injuries and i get it maybe the first two times but at a certain point you have to understand that like this is just not going to work it's not meant we can't they're both constantly getting injured we can't have both of them and i think they have to start figuring out what do they want between franz and paulo and how do they move forward from there with what they're going like they're they're in a crisis in the sense of they made their win now trade last season i was going to say they already like they were they were sort of criticized as too strong a word but people like to chuckle about their sort of staticness that like when are they going to make a move well then they made a move and it was four first round picks for desmond bain and um the grizzlies bundled two of those picks to get cedric coward who looks like a future keeper for sure um and that was a huge bet on like no there's actually like a contending team lurking here and like they've been there have been moments where you know they're up 3-1 against detroit whatever it is they're up 3-1 against detroit they're up 3-1 against detroit they're up 3-1 against like there are moments but at some point you're clinging to moments the way the bulls clung to like well when we had lonzo like or the way the mavericks clung to anthony davis's like first game in dallas like yeah that's first half yeah i just think i i just think you're at the point where it's like this thing's over and you have to now start figuring out how do we how can we kind of not so much rebuild but reload at this point it's not i mean it's not going to be the coach they just got sean sweeney i still think he's going to be a really good coach you know for a long time in the nba but i think they have to start recalibrating what do we want who do we want to be and how do we get this go how do we get there and i think they're just kind of in flux right now um my fourth ranked team in the crisis rankings are the miami heat uh who stayed they would probably have jumped a spot had they lost at the clippers last night and they stole victory from the jumpers last night and they stole victory from the jumpers last night um three and five and you know i i thought the surrounding talent was going to be a little better than this around yannis and bam we were all prepared for a clunky first you know 20 games of those guys figuring out how to play with another big man who's going to run the offense and it's been clunky now and then i expected their defense to be a little better than this and i really like you know rob and i kind of debated clay thompson to me they've got everything they could have hoped for out of clay thompson you knew he was going to be a defensive liability he's done his job he's made shots and he's made a lot of shots and i just expected more out of wiggins and larson and like drew smith hasn't even been in the rotation and the supporting talent has been lacking other than davion mitchell really who's been doing davion mitchell things i'm still not super worried only because opponents are they have the second highest opponent three allowed and the number one highest worst mid-range jumper percentage allowed and they're actually allowing the right kinds of shots only boston has allowed fewer shots at the rim i actually think this is a good defensive team that's kind of hiding in plain sight and that's been victimized by some like atrocious shooting luck but there are real issues here i'm interested to see like what what your take on what are their actual real issues so i had them too wow okay because this is you you trade you've waited so long to make the move and get a whale and you finally get yannis and they've talked about the miami he and yannis has been a thing for three years four years you finally get that and it's been a dud to start and like you know just you had to go to overtime and get a clay thompson great play diagram from spo by the way to get that corner three but you had to get a win against this clipper team that's just awful right and i think you're just looking at like this is and that's a victory like they're celebrating like and they should they win a game it's fun you know but like damn man like how the mighty have fallen with where they're at and they gave up so much and what you look at like i think you're right with the defense right looking at the numbers closer it's like all right it's like it's bad it looks bad right now but it's just some of its bad luck their offense is nowhere in any way where you feel like it has any sort of rhythm really any understanding of what it's supposed to be i mean we talk about teams that need a table setter a connector of some sort and this is exactly the team that needs that as great as yannis is it's you know he's a good passer but i don't feel like he really raises everybody's game to that level it's a little bit of a clunky fit and we said it's going to take a while with him and bam but there's still not a lot of coordination between the two of them right we're seven games eight games in and we're not even really seeing like a lot of stuff where it's like okay we're incorporating the two of them in this action you know and making the defense have to really deal with our two big guys can handle the ball and go to work and we're not even really seeing a lot of that stuff like it's disappointing with with the the setting that they're at you know tim hardaway making shots which is a big problem for them right like i'm with you with clay i don't know what you expected from clay other than this you know and he's still hitting big shots for you i just look at everything across the board and i'm just like what like how what did you think coming in that this team was all of a sudden going to be okay we're going to just compete at this amazing high level because we finally have yannis and bam but like you didn't think about the ramifications offensively like how do you how do you build this team and how do you build this team and how do you build this out charlotte owns their pick lottery protected this year and then they owe a bunch of future picks to milwaukee in this trade it'll be interesting to see how this trade ages as regular listeners know i have always been probably more cautious sometimes to a fault about trading young for old um in this case you know i remember like i i wrote a whole thing about jalen brown versus kevin durant and how back when durant was on brooklyn um you know why boston should really like i know it's kevin durant but like you know eight years up in age makes me nervous when you're talking about an all-star player i think the heat would say yeah we traded a one-time all-star and tyler hero but like hero where hakez who's been great yaka shown us and the rights to nate amen who was what the 15th pick he was the 13th pick and everyone after that no one has really made a big impact yet obviously it's extremely early i think they would argue like what's like what's the opportunity cost of that like even if we've let's say we flipped all of those guys in individual deals what are we really getting well there's some opportunity cost and you have the picks out and so you do wonder like how much of this was driven by just pat riley being like i'm bored i'm tired i need a whale i'm old give me a whale um at least they didn't part with like a blue blue chip kind of younger player for for yannis but it'll be interesting to see how this ages i i'm tabling my crisis level on them a little bit i want to see how they are the next couple weeks they play tonight against the warriors five on my crisis list was indiana where did you have them six okay i mean look we don't need to like we know what's going on in indiana tyrese halliburton is injured if he to zoo bots was injured until he came back last night t.j mcconnell's been injured the whole season this is a team that really needs particularly halliburton but most of its parts to hum at full speed we don't know when halliburton's coming back he's being re-evaluated in like another week or something like that hopefully it's not much longer after that you always get nervous when it's a cap thing after the injury that he had um three and six and look like like miami you look at the east it's like three and five miami's in the play-in three and six indiana's tied with the hornets for the play-in like no one other than there's the three teams at the top we talked about and then everyone else is around 500 they haven't lost a lot of ground um and if they're healthy they're obviously good the thing about them is they are really really committed to this team like they're very expensive this year they're very expensive next year like probably tax level expensive next year and they have siakam eligible for an extension halliburton eligible for an extension zubats nemhart toppin knee smith all extension eligible in the summer um they're locked into this team and they have to think hard about like how much longer do we want to lock into it but i just like i want to see them healthy and they have a track record of start slow finish fast so let's see how they go yeah i think that's just the best way to put it i think that's just the best way to put it i think that's just the best way to put it with them it's it's the injuries have really knocked them back so much it's it's the same thing that happened last year to them granted to begin with they were already injured but last year same thing they got devastated with injuries early on and really sort of set them set them their set them back so far this time though whenever they get haliburton back i don't think they're going to be as in as dire a situation and i think they'll be able to have that run so i'm willing to give them a little bit more time and leeway with where they're going to be but i think they're going to be able to have that run so i'm willing to give them a little bit more time and leeway with where they're going to be as in as dire a situation and i think they'll be able to have that run so i'm willing to give them a little bit more time and leeway with where they're going to be as in as dire a situation time and leeway with where they're at and all this was the team i picked to go to the finals they were in my inner they were in my three team inner circle of teams i trusted enough to potentially see them winning three playoff series in the east indiana philly and my pick the knicks um obviously boston and detroit are gonna have something to say about that toronto you know we'll see if and when kawhi plays but i i and i loved the way they look in the preseason they were maybe maybe i fell for the banana in the tailpipe because i thought they i thought halliburton looked like himself and he did when he was healthy in the regular season too yeah so i think there's there's a level of cons like the concern i get and i understand it all the way i just want to give them a chance give them a little bit of a runway where it's like okay they're healthy and they suck then i'm like in full crisis mode so i had my fifth uh indiana i'm sorry denver six you had denver first we talked about them yeah so that means my bottom two the least crisis team cavs con cavs con three they're seventh and charlotte is eighth the calves are four and four i don't trust the calves nobody should trust the calves um i don't know man i've watched i may have watched the calves more than any other team so far because they keep playing teams that i also want to see a lot yeah you know hopefully this jared allen thing is nothing i don't know man i just like the reason they're seventh is because i just think on raw talent it's going to be very hard for them to not be a top six team in the east but i haven't seen anything so far and it's early the watson fit you know he's only played what five games or something like that um it's going to take some time uh tyson's been out a couple of games recently he's huge for them off the bench and they're when they go smaller with only one of mobley and allen on the floor i don't know man i haven't seen anything that makes me like super excited about this team as like a like okay this is the year kind of team i don't i don't love i don't hate it but i don't love it a lot of the wind in the sail for me when the calves went out when they blew that 20-point lead against philly in game two and i think i was just like oh you're just the same team again maybe some different parts and you know i like malik thomas i like what you know i like some of the guys some of the the young guys that they have but you're just the same team over and over again and it's not really i don't feel like there's a destined destiny to change they've played six teams that are above 500 or better and they're two and four right it's almost the opposite of philly where i'm like philly's four and one like i'm impressed by that they haven't really come out getting smoked the way they did yesterday against okc is just brutal like you can't you know after you already lost to okc you need to come back in that second night ready to battle and ready to go to war and you're just not there yeah their wins are brooklyn minnesota and overtime minnesota who's on the second night of a back-to-back on the road in in cleveland and then anthony had to pretend knee surgery to add for that uh home against washington and at the bucks um so i don't know like they're good i and and you mentioned like they're the same team i mean they are and they aren't like malik thomas is super interesting right he's got a little secondary playmaking to his game uh coming off pin downs and stuff um he's got some moxie and some spunk to him that i like i like tyson hisonia has been outstanding for them on both ends of like guarded shea pretty well like not on switches they just were like you're guarding shea and he's he's managed okay um so they have a bunch of these rant like proctor has popped a little bit in his minutes he's sort of a breaking case guys are hurt guy they have a lot of guys it's just you know again they're gonna spend a lot of the season figuring out how committed are we to the mobley allen pairing and if we're not that committed to it do we just minimize the amount of plays together do we have to make a trade do we trust harden in a big game no um you know i i just don't i just fundamentally some i it's hard for me to put my finger on it i just watched him and i'm like something's not here for me i don't know what it is i felt the same way last year too yeah they just don't have it whatever it may be when you're watching them and and some of it to me is just you know closing out games you know like that game against minnesota was awesome was one of the funnest games i think we've we've had some really fun games this season now that i think about it but this one was really fun to start this season early on and they just don't seem to really have a a true spark with that and i don't know where that where you could find that anymore and i don't know what if that's something kenny has to change like you said they got to figure out what they want to do with the mobley allen pairing at this point which is we're on year four of this three of those with kenny at this point like we're it's it's not that different it is different but not that different from orlando with franz and paulo and like what are we going to do and how does this like the same thing here where it's just like we're going to keep kicking the can down the road and then to the point where it's when we finally make the decision it's too late i i feel like they're just kind of running in a circle and they're sort of lost and i i don't know man it's just tough man it's tough to get excited to watch cleveland they're also massively expensive they don't control any of their first round picks until i believe 2032 um oh by the way speaking of that i mentioned the the relegation zone stuff um i forgot to mention this about utah when we talked about the crisis thing remember memphis got their pick in the jaron jackson junior trade and the nba retroactively was like it the lottery prohibition the new lottery rule prohibition on you can't pick in the top five three years in a row now applies to that pick because ace bailey was a top five pick and darren peterson was the top five pick and memphis justifiably threw a shit fit about it um and was like this is not fair we made this trade under different circumstances and now and we were like well utah is probably going to be pretty good next year like what are the chances their picks in the top five well now you might think utah is going to stabilize and get healthy and be fine whatever chance they had of being in the top five is much more likely to be in the top five than they did much higher now than it was two weeks ago and like memphis should be fucking furious and they still get the you know if utah's pick falls in the top five then they get they have the a bunch of different bites at the apple but like that i didn't really think that made sense to to hit uh memphis that way but anyway what we're talking about cleveland uh very expensive don't control their picks evan mobley and donovan mitchell will make 133 million dollars combined in 29 30 and then donovan mitchell has a 76.4 million dollars combined in 29 30 and then donovan mitchell has a million dollar player option in 2021 and then last but not least is is charlotte um three and six last in offense uh and khan got hurt again came back for one bit of one game in brooklyn and the same hamstring flared up um i i learned yesterday that lamello's fans are even more fanatical than i realized um because i wrote this thing about the lamello trade and brandon miller last night and has been just i i'm not reading much into brandon miller's early season struggles because they're playing lineups that are just so limited offensively without khan and without kobe um i've always been a lamello booster i think he's a legitimately special offensive talent i thought the fit in minnesota would work and i was very clear that like this is a step back for charlotte i don't care if like you think kobe white can make up 80 of his production by the way not a great sign that kobe white came back for charlotte i don't care if like you think kobe white can make up 80 and one of the first who did they play i watched the game and i forgot who they played um whoever they were playing was like we're gonna press kobe white full court the whole game and really challenge his handle and he's like had problems getting it over half court a little bit like not a true point guard the way lamello is their offense sucked when Lomelo was on the bench last year no matter who else was on the court even Miller and Khan like the reason I have them eighth is I don't think the Hornets are super surprised that they're three and six based on the fact that they knew that trade was going to hurt their offense they did it for all the I don't want to relitigate it durability contract whatever we all know why they did it but they knew the risk was a big step back this year and then Khan's not played and Kobe White's not played and Grant Williams has not played so I don't know what people expect that like how they were going to win games like this yeah they're deep they're deep like Grayson Allen's been their second best player this year depth is great and it also means you have a bunch of okay players so they're still well stocked with assets they have a huge hole at center that I just don't think Diabate and Coltrane are really good enough to be like a 48 minutes of center if you're really trying to compete but these are all questions that they knew they had and they have now years to answer and that's why trade the verdict is going to be what's the next move or moves for Charlotte like that's going to be the verdict and they've got to nail those moves but I have them eighth because I'm just simply not surprised that they're three and six we're finally have we finally overlapped because I have them eighth as well for those same reasons like I think you know we all were saying it when they made that trade okay take a step back to take a step forward to kind of reevaluate where you are as a team what do you have on the roster what are you going to want to keep you know are you going to turn around and try to spin Nas read off like what you know and what can you get back for him and things like that it's like you said it's what's the next move really is going to dictate things for them there I think they were prepared to have a season where it's like yeah it was great we went we want to play in game last season and then lost the next game you know it didn't make the playoffs but that's not what we want to be I think they're willing to kind of take that step back I think they are they knew the assessment they were willing to take that step back I think they are they knew the assessment I think the front office knew the the writing on the wall this is something that's certainly possible and I think that's just where they're at and they want to see what they have in Brandon Miller right and like let him go and let him let him loose and like you said unfortunately it sucks right now with the the injuries that they've had especially the con that you just can't seem to get healthy right now there's that he he's going to be put in a bad position and constantly playing in tough lineups that are severely limited I honestly just think in the long run Charlotte will be fine but this is like if anybody had any expectations of them making the playoffs after they made the lamella trade I don't think they have an understanding of what they saw last season and and really going into this season and I'm a guy that had Brandon Miller is most improved so I think this is you know I expecting him to be to take a little bit more of a leap I think that will still come but you know they need to get healthy right now for the starting point but at the end of the day they're just not going to be I didn't have a lot of time to think about it but I think they're going to be able to have them as a playing team I had them 11th neck and neck with Washington 11th 12th in the east and just a reminder they have Dallas's pick top two protected this year in addition to a million future picks just this year they have Dallas's pick top two protected the heat's pick lottery protected I do wonder if the heat will ever call the Hornets and be like hey it would depend if they start winning more can we change the protections on that pick to free up other picks to trade but right now the heat can't even think about that they're too far down and like if you're Charlotte you're like yeah if we're we're like a low-end play-in team we're in the sweet spot in the new lottery rules we get another bite at the apple like that they knew all this going in it's just been a little uglier than they have a million other picks that they've gotten first and seconds they have a Phoenix pick they've got Minnesota picks those Phoenix picks are like gold so I have them eighth on the crisis ranking so I had Phoenix one Utah two Orlando three Miami four Indiana five Denver Cleveland and Charlotte it is interesting Mo like there's a lot of picks that are going to be in the low end play-in team so I have them a lot of mysteries still left in the season but some things are starting uh starting to shake out a little bit yeah it's funny actually looking at the uh standings i was just i i don't know why it just dawned on me here in the west but it's really just dallas at 11 and all the other teams below them have no chance to contend for a playing spot like i don't see i mean unless utah goes on a massive run yeah i'm not i'm not erasing utah or um even phoenix as bad as phoenix has been only because they're so incentivized to keep going all out for it but they phoenix in particular looks like a if like you can't even blow up the team i don't even know what that would look like but they look like a complete mess and they would start if they could get out of their own way and win tonight against the zombie magic that would help all right mode to kill where can people find you in the next week or so you yeah you can find me on sunday on the nba tv the association i'll be there with alexis morgan and zach harper uh we'll be doing live check-ins on games and overall just talking about what's going on in the league and check out the double dribble podcast with jared dubin and myself uh we have a ton of fun mondays and wednesdays normally uh that's on the real gm network and you know i will see what else comes up and you got a baby to take care of and occasionally come on this podcast mode to kill former video coordinator for the spurs and the clippers among other things you're the best all right that's it for today's edition of the zach low show we'll be back on monday as usual thanks to the great mode to kill thanks to mike billy and jonathan on production thanks to you all for listening to and or watching this silly podcast is that glow show we'll see you next week 21 or over and president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 and over and present in dc or wyoming gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in connecticut or is it md gambling help.org in maryland hope is here visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 7 support in massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text hope ny in new york for louisiana call 1-877-770-7867 fox news continued coverage of democracy 26 is streaming live on fox one the outcomes of the midterm elections are far from over so stay with brett bayer and martha mccallum for fox news ongoing election coverage stream fox news live on fox one to get up-to-the-minute results and expert analysis from the voices you trust as america decides the balance of power stream continued coverage of democracy 26 live on fox one watch three days free having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or eoe can mean you're stuck in many ways like cutting your food into tiny pieces or stuck chewing food for a long time do you pick some dupilumab a prescription medicine that can help you get rid of dupilumab and dupilumab can help you get rid of dupilumab for patients one year and older weighing at least 33 pounds can help with that it's a breakthrough treatment that can reduce inflammation in the esophagus and improve swallowing how about this dupixent is not a steroid it proactively treats eoe so you can get ahead of it severe allergic reactions including skin reactions can occur get help right 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