EAL Flight 401 | How a True Crime Crash Became a Haunting in the Sky

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On December 29th, 1972, a passenger airline was en route to its destination in Miami, Florida. What was supposed to be an uneventful flight took a turn for the horrific when the plane crashed into the Florida Everglades. Soon after, haunting tales of ghosts in the sky plagued the airline as salvaged pieces of the wrecked plane returned to service on other aircraft. Today, we dissect the tragic story and the paranormal legacy, of Eastern Airlines Flight 401. This is Red Web. Welcome back, Task Force, to another episode of Red Web, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and the unknown. I am your resident mystery enthusiast, Trevor Collins, and joining me hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz. Look, I understand. I have pieces that are salvageable and usable, because they could be expensive. They could be pricey, and I get profit margins and everything. Sure. Doesn't mean I like it. Uh-huh. I just. Okay. I would feel uneasy being flown in a plane that has used parts from a plane that had an accident. Yeah. You're like, is that a strong piece, or is that a piece that was kind of part of the puzzle that caused the crash? Yeah, that we like. You don't know, but you gotta trust. Bang this piece back in. Into place, into shape. Like, how much of it had to be replaced. Uh-huh. I just. That makes me feel so uneasy. Well, I'm sure stuff like that happens, and you just don't know it, right? Yeah, no, I suppose so. And I think that'll be the cornerstone to kind of, like. Again, we have a true crime case here that is solved, so it's a little bit of a palate cleanser, as I kind of say, as we come out with some heavy ones, some long episodes. It's nice to have a true crime that is resolved. We know what happens. We know what the error is. But then, of course, the season is upon us. Halloween and October are right around the bend. And all month, we're covering cases that kind of keep a foothold in the paranormal. And so we're kicking it off with that. So it's always interesting how something that's more true crime can then have something that is paranormal. And so I'm curious, then, how many of the eyewitness accounts of ghouls and ghosts flying through the skies, because you don't often hear about haunted planes. You don't. How many of those are because they know. How many of them knew about these salvaged pieces and how many of them are, like, kind of coincidental? Well, how would they know about the salvaged pieces? If they were part of the crew, part of the ship. Is it just the crew that know? I mean, is it just the crew that had sightings? It seems we'll get into the various different encounters over the course of various different planes. Interesting. But ultimately, yeah, it does seem that these sightings, of the paranormal, these ghosts, are more focused on captains, flight attendants, and things like that. And, yeah, we'll break it down. I don't think we have passengers necessarily coming forward seeing them. So, you know what? We're kind of coming out of the gate a little hot here. I see what you're after. I mean, you know, speaks for itself. You know what? You're just putting it on the table. I just asked a question, you know, and we're here now. And we're here. You know, I put a piece of pie on the table, and if it's appetizing, you have a little bit of the pie. Just a little bit of the pie, and now I question the pie. And now I question the pie. Yeah, dude, I don't know. It's like, it makes sense. If there's salvageable parts, you gotta use them. But it does make me wonder. It's the same line of thinking I have about all my Blu-rays. They're from estate sales and auctions. And I'm like, do I have a bunch of haunted, like, ghoul tapes? And how many ghosts are contained? Because these are from several different auctions. How many ghosts? Do I have back here? Oh, if you got a lung transplant, could that be haunted? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, at this point, what can't be haunted? That's a great question. And I don't think there is a limit. And I think we asked this question a long time ago. If there's a haunted house and you demolish the house, right? Yep. Is the land haunted? That's a good question. Task force. I need to let like that question ride in the comments, right? Do you think the land is haunted then? Or is it just the house that was haunted? Does the, like, what happens to the ghosts there? Right. Is there an invisible box that they can only roam around? It's like that movie, The Ghost Story with Casey Affleck, you know, where he's just a man under a sheet most of the time. Interesting movie. But yeah, the house eventually goes away because a ghost is meant to be forever. And then he's in a high rise at some point. Like, he's just staying with the property. But I guess, does it matter? Like, does it depend on the origin of the ghost? Was it a previous resident of the house? Or was it? Was the land itself haunted? These are all questions that are worth asking. Inquiring minds want to know. They died on in the house. Yeah. And they're haunting the house. You take the house away. What are the rules and the parameters around that ghost then? And then here's, here's the thing. Say there's an earthquake and the land splits. Oh, no. Which side? What side then? What do we? Oh, I don't. Oh, I got the haunted side. Haunted side. Now I need this. I want answers. Like, what are the rules and regulations here? Okay. Well, what if that earthquake unveils a cave system underneath? Is that cave haunted? Does the ghost fall down in there? Does the ghost fall at that point? Did the ghost even need the cave system in order to like, go like lower underground? Like what are the rules? What are the rules? And while we're underground, is there a haunted mole Hill? Like, where does it stop? Yeah, it's like, can, can moles haunt the ground? Like, do animals have ghosts? Okay. Now we're getting off the rails, but before we dive into today's case, there's a lot to unpack lots happening as well in the red web HQ [email protected]. For example, Fredo, we put it to the task force. We asked them to set the tone for October for movie club, and they had a neck and neck answer between two completely different movies. So different. And so we covered both of them. First up this Friday, we cover the movie, the evil dead, 1981s, the original, it was a wild ride. It is, it is what it was. I mean, it was wild to look back at it. Um, campy is all get out, but that's where the whole franchise begins. And then later this month, we'll talk about it when it comes around the bend, but we do indeed cover Halloween town. So if you're looking for the vibes, they're here and I'll be honest, I enjoy Halloween town more. I said, I gotta say. I did too. Yeah, man. I enjoyed it more. What do you want from me? And what do you want? What do you want to ask for? So, okay. So we, we took the movies, we put a bunch of them out, you voted for them and now we're doing them. Uh, let's see, last Thursday we wrapped up friends, slop timber, which we had for free game plays. So you can come on over to the Patrion for free and enjoy these game plays that we did with our old friends from rooster teeth last week. We did, uh, make way. Make way with the regulation podcast and then of course I already said this, but this month you can kind of buckle up. It's kind of our version of 31 days of Halloween. So if you're into the old Disney channel, a Halloween town kind of energy, that's what we're trying to cultivate here with the, uh, the subject matter of red webs episodes, the movie clubs, the, the game plays all [email protected]. But with that said, Fredo, it's time to take to the skies. We go true crime and then we go back to the paranormal. We'll start asking these goofy questions. We're going to figure out. It goes for real. It's December 29th, 1972 Eastern airlines flight 401 departs from JFK international airport in Queens, New York, and it's 9:20 PM local time when they're taking off. So it's into the evening. They're on route to Miami international airport in of course, Miami, Florida. The aircraft was a beautiful, I have an image of it right here. The Lockheed L 10 11 tri star, and it had been delivered on August 18th, 1972. So it's a pretty recent delivery to the Yale system. I think it's a newer aircraft itself. What is that little top hole? Is that like another jet turbine? Like that's your third baby hole. Normally when I see that, I think McDonnell Douglas, which eventually got absorbed into Boeing, but yeah, yep. That's just a third jet engine. Okay. This thing must rip them. Oh, she ripping and tearing. Oh, yeah. Maybe that thorough. Wasn't a good idea. Yeah. All right. - Yeah, well. But let me introduce you to some of the crew. Of course, we're going to talk about three of these gentlemen going into the paranormal segment, but there's a lot of other people in this plane. So first and foremost, if you want to take a look at the picture, we have Captain Robert Alban Loft, a 55-year-old pilot, and he was flying the plane. He had a high seniority at the airline. You know, Loft had been flying with EAL for 32 years. He had accumulated just shy of 30,000 flight hours, making him the 15th most senior pilot in the company. I think that's important to know because there's not a lot of situations this man hasn't been through. You know, we've talked about cases before with flights and their credentials and stuff, so you're going to feel pretty safe being with someone that's flown that consistently. Oh, yeah. And for that long. 30,000 hours? Yeah. It seems like he stayed with the same company for a long time or something. Yeah. So that's a dedicated man, right? Yeah, from 23 to 55. You think about that in modern terms, it's not a very common thing you see anymore, obviously for a lot of different reasons, but this man's putting in those hours. There's not a lot of things that anyone has 30,000 hours in. That's wild. Yeah. I've got 30,000 hours plus gaming. Maybe, yeah. I could have become a distinguished pilot, man. Dang. Yeah. You could have put all those stat buildings into something real. Something real instead of digital. Let me divide that out. That is three and a half years almost of just being in the air. So on his flight crew was First Officer Albert Stockstill, who had about 5,800 flight hours himself, and Flight Engineer Donald Repo, who had 15,700 flight hours. In other words, let me just say it this way, the crew is experienced beyond belief. These people know what they're doing when they're in the air, and you are in good hands with this trio. But there's three? I thought there was just two. Pilot, co-pilot? Yeah. Nowadays, I believe there's two. It depends on the aircraft and depends on the complexity of the systems. This is an older aircraft, and so there's a lot more manual systems going on. In fact, we're going to talk about this plane. It's important in the advent of autopilot. For years, it's been around. For decades, autopilot's been around, but in increasingly more advanced iterations. And so this plane contained a new kind of step in the autopilot arena. Now, I will say, normally, yeah, it is the first officer and the pilot up front, but then, again, depending on the flight, you'll have behind them, the third seat is the flight engineer. Just different systems, manuals, things like that. Oh, interesting. Okay. Actually, Christian, I'm really curious, because I know the outside of the plane, I know the plane itself. I don't really know the inside crew system, so I'm curious, when the flight engineer role was kind of majorly, I don't want to say phased, but why we don't see it as often, if you want to take a quick check, Christian, our man in the chair. Looks like they started phasing out the flight engineer starting in the 1980s, just due to the advancements of the onboard technology, flight computers, circuits, things like that. That makes sense. That makes sense. Less things to switch, poke and prod. You have less of the, okay, let's get the systems online, this check, that check, and all of that. Makes sense. Now, in total, the plane is, carrying 163 passengers and 13 crew members. I have yet another image here, if you want to take a look at, at least a majority of the flight attendants assisting with this aircraft. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a major aircraft. You have, what is that, nine? There's at least nine flight attendants in this photo, yes. Sheesh. But 176 people on board, so a lot of souls flying in the air. There's a lot of people flying. So, here's the thing, the majority of the flight was Bogside. Nothing to talk about, nothing to report, everything seemed normal. And this is as they're approaching Miami. You know, this is where things start to go amiss. Like normal, they begin descending out of the sky, and the crew lowers the landing gear. And then they check the status lights all there in the cockpit to make sure that their actions are being reciprocated by the mechanisms and the machines and things. And, in fact, there's actually a green light on the dash in a plane like this. So, when you lower, for example, the nose landing gear, that green light would go green to let you know that, boom, the nose landing gear is indeed down. You're ready to proceed with the next steps of landing and all of that. However, on this flight, that green light didn't go on. And so, they're thinking, well, that's strange. Maybe the gear's stuck, maybe something's going on. They cycle through the landing gear once more, retracting, and then once again deploying, hoping that whatever was causing it can be fixed and that the landing gear could be deployed, but the light stayed off. Now, at this point, Loft radios air traffic control tower, and he tells them, hey, we're going to enter a holding pattern. I know we're already on descent, but we're going to discontinue our approach. You know, I don't know if you know this, but basically, all scheduled and delayed aircraft go to air traffic control, and they all enter this queue system in the air. So, if you've ever gone in a circle around an airport, that's usually because, whether it be weather or the queue getting backed up, they're just trying to organize it. You've got to be spread out. There's turbulent air, all that good stuff. So, they say, hey, go ahead and open up our spot in the queue. We're going to turn around. We're just going to put this in a circle for a little bit while we figure out what's going on with our mechanics. So, they're then cleared from air traffic controller to climb back up to 2,000 feet in altitude, or just over 600 meters. They're going to take that holding pattern just west of the airport, which would be over the Florida Everglades, and if you're not aware of them, it's a very famous spot of Florida. They're very well known for their sprawling wetland, ecosystem, and a little fun fact. I was curious, like, why it's called the Everglades while we were looking this up, and glades are kind of like old English for grass, and so it's kind of evoking the idea of, like, the omnipresent horizon of ever-flowing grass and wetlands and marshlands. So, there you have it. So, this is where they're flying over. Now, I want to reference this image before it gets too long here. This is where you can kind of see what we're going to talk about. It does show the crash happening. I'm going to walk you through it. I'm going to walk you through the whole timeline here, but you see what would have been their glide slope for a landing, but instead how they kind of go back up to altitude, turn back around, and off they go. This graph will kind of illustrate the various stages I'm about to verbally walk you through, Fredo. Okay. So, they climb back up to altitude, and the crew begins their investigation. Repo himself is the one checking what's called a small porthole down in the floor of the aircraft. There's kind of a trap door where you can go down in there. It's affectionately referred to as the hellhole because, one, it is so small, and two, you can only imagine when you're at altitude, looking down through something like this, it would be quite uneasy, you know? But I appreciate this because I was going to make a joke about a series of mirrors allowing you to see underneath the airline to see if the landing gear was down, but they actually do in this aircraft at least have a way to physically check on it. And so they're like, all right, is it jammed? Is it actually deployed? But the light's not going on. Maybe the light's burned out. We don't really know. So that's what Repo is doing. But once they're up at altitude, you have Loft, and he tells Stockstill to turn on the autopilot. Now, I don't want to take Lockheed's kind of marketing here, but it was a pretty good advanced leap in autopilot as a tool that was implemented on this iteration of aircraft. So Lockheed had this to say with regards to their revolutionary new form of autopilot. They said this, quote, "a groundbreaking moment, the first cross country flight without the need for human hands on the controls," end quote, which kind of brings you much closer to what we kind of know today to be autopilot. If you go way back, there's a more rudimentary, it's autopilot, but it's really just kind of locking the mechanism of the yoke, and so it kind of stays stable. This one is reading the altitude and what have you and making subtle adjustments for you. Um, I didn't dive super deep onto the different iterations of autopilot, but I think. I think just knowing it's slightly new and different and that there could be errors. I think that's the key issue to hone in on here. So once the autopilot's on, Stockstill attempts to extract the light fixture from the panel so he can replace the bulb. He's like, all right, you're down there checking on the mechanism. I'm just going to try to replace the light and we'll try to do both solutions at the same time. However, they're kind of having trouble with this. The light panel itself had become jammed. They can't get this panel open. And obviously as they keep trying to deploy the landing gear, the light stays out. And so they're kind of still unsure on what the solution is now. Repo he's down in the hole and he's like, I don't see anything down there. That's exactly what he says. He's explaining that it's too dark to say for certain if the landing gear had been deployed or not, which makes sense. It's about a two, maybe, maybe three hour flight from JFK to Miami, if I'm guessing. And if they left at 9:20 PM, you know, you're somewhere around midnight. Yeah. In the Florida area. So it stopped me from getting too ahead of myself, but one terrifying. It's not like, well, okay. We're troubleshooting and it's like, I troubleshoot my computer and I'm in the comfort of my office. I can't imagine being in the air troubleshooting landing gear. If what is the protocol for that? If the landing gear doesn't work, protocol is you have a rough landing. You just land and scrape it. Everyone tucks and braces. Yeah. And you, I mean, I'm not a pilot here. This is my, my best assumption right right informed assumption but it would be that you initiate your reverse thrust and so what happens is the jet closes and so all the thrust coming out of the jet pushes forward that's once you're already landed that's how you air brake all of the um flaps like flare once again increasing your drag and so what you would do is you would land and probably pull back and kick all those on and flare as much as possible to slow down all before that front landing gear would in theory land and so you're kind of landing in a wheelie trying to brake as much as possible and then recognizing that it's going to be really hard to set it down gently so you're gonna have a bit of a thud and then you're gonna scrape to an end right to a stop interesting okay that's what i thought it'd be just terrifying but also i feel like doable right possible yeah it's great like you just don't you just hope it doesn't roll but like yeah i guess you can do it you just kind of have to scrape it exactly you know if a wing clips the ground or digs in you that's the thing the wing right and then you're okay not as easy as i'm thinking now that i'm like i'll just scrape and let it run along yeah you got fuel tanks to think about you got the engines sparks could light some stuff up oh well like what other option do you have water landing which is also like skip like a rock though definitely a craft landing yeah you'd be slamming down but if it meant the difference between landing and not landing you know that's that's true i've actually run out of gasoline and it will just dive that's the other option is maybe you fly until it's on fumes you know just for the sake of safety i don't know task force if there's any pilots out there we got a a wide and diverse set of uh of community members here i'd be very curious if there's any other thoughts on that but yeah that's a terrifying situation it's too dark because you're flying over the everglades you're flying over the everglades can't see if the landing gear is down or not and the light won't tell you but you can't replace the light because the panel's jammed yeah i could imagine they're cool calm collected but also you're starting to sweat a little bit tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at bj's wholesale club saving up to 25 off grocery store prices beef jerky microwave meals laundry pods even they can't screw up have you met my kids and with bj's gas she gets there for less they call me the road warrior home road warrior mom home of the save join for just twenty dollars at bjs.com mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save star wars the mandalorian and grogu is now streaming on disney plus what are you waiting for hop on the must-see galactic adventure comes home on disney plus this is the way our only chance is to work together so from here like i said repo comes up he goes i can't see anything loft turns on a switch on the overhead panel presumably like a light or something like that and he goes okay now go look again i know aircraft have essentially headlights that they use in the darkman landing and maybe one of these things was turned on so they could see anything right down the bottom of the the hellhole he continues to help stock still as well with the panel containing the light assembly to see if they can fix that now it's believed that during this frenzy the yoke is bumped and this would unfortunately cause the autopilot to disengage the yoke essentially the steering wheel that causes the pitch yaw roll the controls of the aircraft and so if you know the pilot or the first officer is leaning over and their leg bumps it in their head they're probably going well this is a more advanced version of autopilot right and so it should be able to like survive through that but they might also not know that this being a different iteration of autopilot it is a little bit more sensitive that it turns off when the yoke is touched because then it goes ah i don't want to compete with the human pilot so i turn off now that's kind of what's been presumed about this so maybe somebody bumps it it disengages but the evening goes on and on and on and on and on and on and here so the crew was so consumed it would seem by the light that they then failed to notice that they were back for sure under manual control now this is super interesting because the air traffic controller himself noticed that they had shifted perhaps into manual but he also was able to see that they had lowered in altitude just slightly just enough and so thinking that that's happening because they found a solution he hails them right he calls in and says quote eastern 401 how are things coming along out there end quote and loft answers quote okay we'd like to turn around and come back in end quote the controller then says quote eastern 401 turn left heading 180 end quote loft replies quote 180 end quote and so basically saying we're going to make a an exact turnaround because we're now flying away from the airport a 180 is just a 180 degrees you turn exactly around and you re-approach and so you can see how maybe from the perspective of atc they're like okay it sounds like maybe they fixed it they want to come back to the airport they can land now yeah go ahead 180 come on around i'll get you back in the queue so as the plane is making its 180 degree turn to approach for the landing that's when stock still noticed something was wrong and again if you look at this chart i showed you you see they take that first 180 to go back out west over the everglades and then in the top left of this chart you see that they start to turn but you also see that drop in altitude just before it so segment 8 into segment 9 you see the drop segment 9 into segment 10 you start to see the turn and that's where they crash yeah i see the gradual up and then it comes down pretty quick yes so again they're all very similar but they're all very similar but they're all very distracted with the situation at hand they're thinking that they're staying level at altitude and then they start to turn around but then stock still on the controls he notices something he says quote we did something to the altitude end quote loft what stock still we're still at 2 000 right loft hey what's happening here and that was the last correspondence heard from flight 401 before it crashed basically it seemed that all two of them were at the same altitude they were all at the same altitude it seemed that all two of them were at the same altitude it seemed that all two late they had determined that their altitude had suddenly changed but they hadn't noticed it and before they could really adjust the airline whatsoever again you're out over the everglades there's there's no lights to give you a an idea of where the ground is or see your heading that is the terrifying thing about flying at night especially over like you see it in the ocean you see it over like dark land you can really easily lose your sense of orientation and that might have happened here you know their question you know like asking if they're at 2 000 feet and like halfway through segment eight they're already at 1855. and so their questioning is like way late super late yeah because they're if they're trying to target being at 2000 it's all you know a whole nother segment behind right right actually two segments because they're at 1900 feet at segment seven 1900 yes you're right i mean they started to uh adjust there i mean and so that's where you might see that first drop and then the plane kind of holds itself steady as it slowly decays down to 1855 and then you start to see it says pitch cws roll cws etc and that is the control wheel steering and we'll talk a little bit more about that in particular but basically roll is like you know the barrel roll where you're tilting left and right and pitch i believe is your up and down and so if the pitch is being adjusted you're changing your altitude so you're seeing those things start to like get worse basically it doesn't have to get all that bad before then suddenly they're down at segment 10 571 feet and they're taking a turn and they're realizing oh we're aimed down and at that speed you don't really have a lot of extra time to process what's going on and that's where loft says hey we're going to have a little bit more time to process that and then you're like hey what's happening here and then that's kind of it it's really scary and i know there's recordings online of this flight i don't know if the final lines are out there and recorded i didn't really want to find them but they might be view discretion is advised if you want that but um after this point the controller tries twice more to radio the flight but of course here's nothing and then it's 11 43 p.m a few moments after losing contact another radio comes in from a different plane and they say this quote uh miami tower this is national 6-1-1 we just saw a big explosion looks like it was out west i don't know what it means but i thought you should know end quote so devastatingly another inbound flight actually sees this crash and explosion happen out in the everglades and the plane crashed just northwest of miami in the everglades about 19 miles or 30 kilometers away from the runway that they were due to land on now the plane was flying 227 miles per hour when it crashed into the ground the left wing tip actually hit the ground the ground first because like i said they had pitched a little bit down to the left so their left wing was down not level and so the wing tip hits first then the left engine then the left landing gear and then the rest of the fuselage kind of comes in behind it and it skids more than a third of a mile this entire craft before it finally comes to a stop here in the muddy wetlands here now in total the plane broke into five large pieces i will say this viewer discretion if you if you want but we will slowly roll through all four photos of various sections of the aircraft available on social if you want to follow us at red web pod but also for you fredo here in the video version of the podcast on spotify and youtube there's like a piece of the plane on top of another piece of the plane oh yeah so i like split and then impact area and then how i mean you see big chunks and a lot of scattered debris you see how far away this whole wreckage is spread right image f is kind of just the um it's just the overall devastation oh there's a piece in the back yeah it really got torn up yeah oh my goodness you can see better in the in the fourth image you can see a life raft it's in both of the images and i don't know if on impact that popped out and inflated or or why that's open in the fourth image you can see people in it and that gives you an idea of the scale of this devastation yeah no this um they got banged up real bad yeah dude it's wild to think about any of this being salvageable just i mean looking at the images yeah wait hold on what are we salvaging here i you know that's actually a great question i don't know if i've got it in my notes what specifically we salvaged i could be blowing out a proportion you know if i got it in my notes what specifically we salvaged i could be blowing out a proportion it could just be we salvaged bolts and like sure well maybe not the bolts but like like windows or what have you right like you know i mean like smaller things i don't know what the heck you'd salvage here yeah i mean like i said just at a glance she's pretty busted up i mean she's pretty shredded yeah you know you might find some seats you might find some major chunks within that might be okay you know you might find some seats you might find some major chunks within that might be okay you know you might find some seats you might find some major chunks within that might be okay compartments and things compartments and things compartments and things yeah i mean honestly though like with yeah i mean honestly though like with yeah i mean honestly though like with casualties casualties casualties seems seems uh disrespectful to like seems seems uh disrespectful to like seems seems uh disrespectful to like salvage seats and put down another plane salvage seats and put down another plane salvage seats and put down another plane or something yeah that would feel a or something yeah that would feel a or something yeah that would feel a little weird you're sitting in the seat of little weird you're sitting in the seat of little weird you're sitting in the seat of somebody who somebody who somebody who maybe didn't make it that's a little maybe didn't make it that's a little maybe didn't make it that's a little that's one that's very weird i wouldn't that's one that's very weird i wouldn't that's one that's very weird i wouldn't i wouldn't like that i feel like it's i wouldn't like that i feel like it's i wouldn't like that i feel like it's disrespectful you know what i mean like disrespectful you know what i mean like disrespectful you know what i mean like dang airline dang airline dang airline okay yeah well in the aftermath you okay yeah well in the aftermath you okay yeah well in the aftermath you have well first and foremost there's two have well first and foremost there's two have well first and foremost there's two men robert marquise and ray dickinson men robert marquise and ray dickinson men robert marquise and ray dickinson these were two gentlemen that were out these were two gentlemen that were out these were two gentlemen that were out frog hunting when they witnessed the frog hunting when they witnessed the frog hunting when they witnessed the crash happen right in front of them and crash happen right in front of them and crash happen right in front of them and they rush in to rescue the survivors and they rush in to rescue the survivors and they rush in to rescue the survivors and this actually results in marquise this actually results in marquise this actually results in marquise receiving burns to his face his arms his receiving burns to his face his arms his receiving burns to his face his arms his legs because the devastating blaze legs because the devastating blaze legs because the devastating blaze but of course them just trying to run over but of course them just trying to run over but of course them just trying to run over there to see what they could do to there to see what they could do to there to see what they could do to help now in total remember there's north help now in total remember there's north help now in total remember there's north of 170 people on this aircraft but 75 of 170 people on this aircraft but 75 of 170 people on this aircraft but 75 people did survive the crash you have 67 people did survive the crash you have 67 people did survive the crash you have 67 passengers and eight of the flight passengers and eight of the flight passengers and eight of the flight attendants frank boorman who was the attendants frank boorman who was the attendants frank boorman who was the senior vice president of operations at senior vice president of operations at senior vice president of operations at eastern airlines was awoken at night and eastern airlines was awoken at night and eastern airlines was awoken at night and notified about this crash or at least notified about this crash or at least notified about this crash or at least at the time probable crash but at the time probable crash but at the time probable crash but definitely and he immediately drives to definitely and he immediately drives to definitely and he immediately drives to the miami offices he charters a the miami offices he charters a the miami offices he charters a helicopter and he then himself goes out helicopter and he then himself goes out helicopter and he then himself goes out to the crash site as the company had to the crash site as the company had to the crash site as the company had not received any rescue progress reports not received any rescue progress reports not received any rescue progress reports and so he just wants to get eyes on the and so he just wants to get eyes on the and so he just wants to get eyes on the scene figure out what's going on scene figure out what's going on scene figure out what's going on now there he coordinated with continued now there he coordinated with continued now there he coordinated with continued rescue efforts and airlifted three rescue efforts and airlifted three rescue efforts and airlifted three survivors to hospitals and all of the survivors to hospitals and all of the survivors to hospitals and all of the survivors were injured right i mean this survivors were injured right i mean this survivors were injured right i mean this was a dramatic crash to say the least was a dramatic crash to say the least was a dramatic crash to say the least there were 60 who survived that had there were 60 who survived that had there were 60 who survived that had serious injuries and then there were 17 serious injuries and then there were 17 serious injuries and then there were 17 that also survived in addition to them that also survived in addition to them that also survived in addition to them but their injuries were considered more but their injuries were considered more but their injuries were considered more minor they didn't require minor they didn't require minor they didn't require hospitalization at least wow to walk out hospitalization at least wow to walk out hospitalization at least wow to walk out of that with just minor injuries is of that with just minor injuries is of that with just minor injuries is right right right i think i think i think and maybe this is part of the and maybe this is part of the and maybe this is part of the investigation as well and the conclusions investigation as well and the conclusions investigation as well and the conclusions is that the fact that they landed in is that the fact that they landed in is that the fact that they landed in essentially a swamp essentially a swamp essentially a swamp the wetlands this really soft like the the wetlands this really soft like the the wetlands this really soft like the muddy waters it was able to absorb so muddy waters it was able to absorb so muddy waters it was able to absorb so much of the energy of the crash that it much of the energy of the crash that it much of the energy of the crash that it lessened the impact on the craft and lessened the impact on the craft and lessened the impact on the craft and everybody within it and so a lot of everybody within it and so a lot of everybody within it and so a lot of that energy i mean was dissipated away that energy i mean was dissipated away that energy i mean was dissipated away into the ground because of it and so into the ground because of it and so into the ground because of it and so that i think had a large hand in why so that i think had a large hand in why so that i think had a large hand in why so many people were able to survive many people were able to survive many people were able to survive additionally what's really interesting additionally what's really interesting additionally what's really interesting is that the muddy waters is that the muddy waters is that the muddy waters reportedly acted like some type of reportedly acted like some type of reportedly acted like some type of bandage that people that had severe bandage that people that had severe bandage that people that had severe puncture wounds and what have you it puncture wounds and what have you it puncture wounds and what have you it kind of kind of kind of caked it up or what have you and and caked it up or what have you and and caked it up or what have you and and blocked it from blocked it from blocked it from people bleeding out now of course the people bleeding out now of course the people bleeding out now of course the light then to simply bleed out at the light then to simply bleed out at the light then to simply bleed out at the crash site i agree yeah and that's kind crash site i agree yeah and that's kind crash site i agree yeah and that's kind of the conclusion as far as of the conclusion as far as of the conclusion as far as why so many people were able to walk why so many people were able to walk why so many people were able to walk away from something like this even away from something like this even away from something like this even though there was a lot of injuries though there was a lot of injuries though there was a lot of injuries being alive is certainly uh i think being alive is certainly uh i think being alive is certainly uh i think better than just not despite those better than just not despite those better than just not despite those injuries i'd hope right injuries i'd hope right injuries i'd hope right i didn't even wow yeah because the the i didn't even wow yeah because the the i didn't even wow yeah because the the mud would soften it a bit and then do mud would soften it a bit and then do mud would soften it a bit and then do you even think about just mud hardening you even think about just mud hardening you even think about just mud hardening sealing up some of the wounds stuff like sealing up some of the wounds stuff like sealing up some of the wounds stuff like that that is that that is that that is can you imagine that story that chain of can you imagine that story that chain of can you imagine that story that chain of events events events yeah that sounds like something like yeah that sounds like something like yeah that sounds like something like someone's distant grandpa would say oh someone's distant grandpa would say oh someone's distant grandpa would say oh yeah i was bleeding out and the mud kind yeah i was bleeding out and the mud kind yeah i was bleeding out and the mud kind of of of you know held my my abdomen together or you know held my my abdomen together or you know held my my abdomen together or like kind of like kind of like kind of muddied over it and prevented it from muddied over it and prevented it from muddied over it and prevented it from just like just like just like bleeding out i i wouldn't have thought bleeding out i i wouldn't have thought bleeding out i i wouldn't have thought about that like what do you mean about that like what do you mean about that like what do you mean yeah yeah yeah no that just i mean that yeah yeah yeah no that just i mean that yeah yeah no that just i mean that sounds like something that happens in the sounds like something that happens in the movie and you go come on movie and you go come on movie and you go come on and and like no that happened yeah like and and like no that happened yeah like and and like no that happened yeah like when back in my day we lived through it when back in my day we lived through it when back in my day we lived through it this way but i mean it's true it's real this way but i mean it's true it's real this way but i mean it's true it's real before you get back into it so i did a before you get back into it so i did a before you get back into it so i did a little digging to try to look into the little digging to try to look into the little digging to try to look into the specificity of the pieces that were specificity of the pieces that were specificity of the pieces that were salvaged from the flight and i'll admit salvaged from the flight and i'll admit salvaged from the flight and i'll admit there are conflicting reports uh there there are conflicting reports uh there there are conflicting reports uh there are some who just say generally there are some who just say generally there are some who just say generally there were pieces that were taken but then were pieces that were taken but then were pieces that were taken but then i've seen some sources say that i've seen some sources say that i've seen some sources say that um there were things like uh equipment um there were things like uh equipment um there were things like uh equipment from the galley or things like carts from the galley or things like carts from the galley or things like carts like less gotcha like critical like less gotcha like critical like less gotcha like critical equipment um but again equipment um but again that's i'm seeing a lot of conversation that's i'm seeing a lot of conversation that's i'm seeing a lot of conversation and and and and and and discourse about discourse about discourse about the accuracy of those reports and the accuracy of those reports and the accuracy of those reports and whether or not it was actually ever whether or not it was actually ever whether or not it was actually ever officially confirmed that some of these officially confirmed that some of these officially confirmed that some of these things were taken but that's things were taken but that's things were taken but that's there's a lot of nebulousness up there there's a lot of nebulousness up there there's a lot of nebulousness up there right right right of course you know when a ghost story is of course you know when a ghost story is of course you know when a ghost story is attached you almost have to wonder okay attached you almost have to wonder okay attached you almost have to wonder okay do people believe in the ghost stories do people believe in the ghost stories do people believe in the ghost stories because the salvage story or is the because the salvage story or is the because the salvage story or is the salvage story necessary salvage story necessary salvage story necessary accoutrement to make the ghost stories accoutrement to make the ghost stories accoutrement to make the ghost stories happen true you know we we've seen that happen true you know we we've seen that happen true you know we we've seen that when there's a ghost story they they go when there's a ghost story they they go when there's a ghost story they they go well we need a reason why it's here we well we need a reason why it's here we well we need a reason why it's here we need to what's the origin yeah well need to what's the origin yeah well need to what's the origin yeah well confusingly interesting do you imagine confusingly interesting do you imagine confusingly interesting do you imagine like you're on a flight and your coffee like you're on a flight and your coffee like you're on a flight and your coffee pot you know like yeah i'll have a pot you know like yeah i'll have a pot you know like yeah i'll have a coffee cream and sugar please and like coffee cream and sugar please and like coffee cream and sugar please and like this coffee pot was from a wrecked plane this coffee pot was from a wrecked plane this coffee pot was from a wrecked plane yes it's haunted here's your coffee yes it's haunted here's your coffee yes it's haunted here's your coffee just at that point just buy yourself a just at that point just buy yourself a couple of new things you know don't be couple of new things you know don't be couple of new things you know don't be scraping up what right yeah come on scraping up what right yeah come on scraping up what right yeah come on and again there's also just the aspect and again there's also just the aspect and again there's also just the aspect of being disrespectful to those that of being disrespectful to those that of being disrespectful to those that pass pass pass yeah yeah just yeah yeah just yeah yeah just it feels weird all right so let's break it feels weird all right so let's break it feels weird all right so let's break down the investigation into a couple of down the investigation into a couple of down the investigation into a couple of chunks first off we're going to talk chunks first off we're going to talk chunks first off we're going to talk about the control wheel steering the cws about the control wheel steering the cws about the control wheel steering the cws because the national transportation because the national transportation because the national transportation safety board the ntsb investigated and safety board the ntsb investigated and safety board the ntsb investigated and they found that autopilot yes had they found that autopilot yes had they found that autopilot yes had indeed been accidentally switched off indeed been accidentally switched off indeed been accidentally switched off from what's called altitude hold to from what's called altitude hold to from what's called altitude hold to control wheel steering or cws control wheel steering or cws control wheel steering or cws so in cws once the pilot releases the so in cws once the pilot releases the so in cws once the pilot releases the pressure on the yoke the autopilot pressure on the yoke the autopilot pressure on the yoke the autopilot maintains the altitude until the yoke maintains the altitude until the yoke maintains the altitude until the yoke is moved again and they believe that's is moved again and they believe that's is moved again and they believe that's what happened they were kind of what happened they were kind of what happened they were kind of scurrying working on the light moving scurrying working on the light moving scurrying working on the light moving around a little bit in the cockpit and around a little bit in the cockpit and around a little bit in the cockpit and maybe that yoke was bumped and that is maybe that yoke was bumped and that is maybe that yoke was bumped and that is what would have initiated that what would have initiated that what would have initiated that disengagement disengagement disengagement now the investigation found it was now the investigation found it was now the investigation found it was instruments with data while channel b instruments with data while channel b instruments with data while channel b does that for his first officer who sits does that for his first officer who sits does that for his first officer who sits right next to him right next to him right next to him the investigation found that the switch the investigation found that the switch the investigation found that the switch in channel a may not have occurred on in channel a may not have occurred on in channel a may not have occurred on channel b which would have been a fluke channel b which would have been a fluke channel b which would have been a fluke an accident a freak part of this whole an accident a freak part of this whole an accident a freak part of this whole incident which would have meant that incident which would have meant that incident which would have meant that when it got disengaged when it got disengaged when it got disengaged the first pilot would not have been able the first pilot would not have been able the first pilot would not have been able to see that and not been to see that and not been to see that and not been notified of that mode shift notified of that mode shift notified of that mode shift and then of course we have the air and then of course we have the air and then of course we have the air traffic controller traffic controller traffic controller we have a name for this person it was we have a name for this person it was we have a name for this person it was charles johnson and he was the charles johnson and he was the charles johnson and he was the controller speaking with eal401 controller speaking with eal401 controller speaking with eal401 now i don't know if this is like now i don't know if this is like now i don't know if this is like negative and dramatic irony or if this negative and dramatic irony or if this negative and dramatic irony or if this is just the nature that we never see in is just the nature that we never see in is just the nature that we never see in flights i'm not here to make anyone flights i'm not here to make anyone flights i'm not here to make anyone afraid of flying it is a wonderfully afraid of flying it is a wonderfully afraid of flying it is a wonderfully safe mode of transportation safe mode of transportation safe mode of transportation but hats off to air traffic controllers but hats off to air traffic controllers but hats off to air traffic controllers everywhere um because They, it's one of the most stressful jobs in the world. I'll just say that right now. And they deal with a lot. So Charles Johnson's over here and moments before EAL 401, right before their entire situation comes onto his literal radar, Johnson had been dealing with a different incident and he was dealing with the aftermath of another flight, National 607. Their landing gear was actually jammed. And so he's working with another aircraft that also has jammed landing gear. And we didn't really look into that too, too closely, but I believe all was resolved on that front because there wasn't another accident that night. Right. But what's interesting about Johnson's setup is that he's using the only three-dimensional radar at Miami. So he receives EAL 401's transmissions and he's looking at the three-dimensional radar. So it's not the scan with the boop, boop, you know, like he can see a little bit of altitude as well as your geographical. Coordinates. Now the flight had not declared an emergency. We're talking about 401, but he knew about the potentially jammed nose gear. So he's on standby, ready to see what he can do to help from the ground, but he is confined by his responsibilities. He doesn't want to cross a line and what have you. Now, when he saw the decrease in altitude, there's a couple of things that comes to mind, right? Cause again, he's looking at three dimensions and he sees their, their altitude go down. That's partly why he calls to the pilots. And. Asks about their progress. He doesn't say, Hey, I noticed that this happened or, Hey, I saw your altitude. He just, he goes, let me check in with them. Maybe it's resolved because suddenly they're shifting. Maybe they resolved the wheel thing. No, that's when we have the whole moment that I kind of reenacted back before with their communication, but that's when loft informed him that they were to change course back to the airport. Now he didn't mention the decrease in altitude because again, that's not part of the air traffic controller's job, not their duty. And so he is assuming that as part of captain and co-pilots kind of responsibilities that they're aware of it, that it was something that they intended to do. However, there's the other thing that comes to his mind. Yes, it is a three-dimensional radar, but it's not bulletproof because some suspect that he had a kind of relaxed demeanor, not only because he was cool under pressure, but some also believe that he might've simply known that the radar itself was known to occasionally show incorrect altitude for brief. Periods of time before it would then correct itself. And so on his radar, he saw that decrease in altitude and he might've thought, you know what? I'm going to check in with them. They sound like they're fine. And I think my radar is actually just a giving a false reading. It will correct here soon. That's kind of, that's more of an assumption there, but it could be part of the puzzle. Now NTSB in the end investigated and found no fault in Johnson as he followed all air traffic control procedures in place at the time. And then there's a. Another element here, there is a little chime. It is a C chord. So like a D or whatever, a natural C would be someone with perfect pitch in the task force. Just got me on a, like an F sharp or something. Um, but there's a chime. So if you're supposed to be flying at a certain altitude and you drop at least 250 feet, this chime plays. It's to let you know, ding, you've dropped 250 feet. Do you want to check in on this? Or is this what you're trying to do now? It seems that that chime did in fact play. And so the cockpit should have been aware of this at the time, but it seems reasonable assumption that they didn't notice because they were distracted by the whole situation. The jammed panel, trying to get the light replaced, trying to double check down below to see if they could see the landing gear, trying to figure out this new flight pattern that they're on to put itself in a hold, try to hit a few switches to turn on lights down below. All sorts of. On the go distractions. And again, they allowed themselves these distractions because they're trusting the autopilot that they didn't know they accidentally disengaged. See, that's, oh man, that's just such a wild series of events. Yeah. Even just the fact that they accidentally disengaged something is just damn, but I mean, like you're in a panic, right? Like you're, you're thinking that's taken care of. I'm going to handle this. Right. And you're not thinking we accidentally disengaged something. It's not on the mind. And what a series. And then not to hear the chime. Like, cause I was thinking that too. I was like, isn't there just a bunch of things to help keep you aware of what's going on at all times? Yes. And it's just, man, it's just none of it. None of it clicked. None of it came in. Yeah. Like redundancies. But then you're like, well, maybe, you know, it is such an experienced crew, but maybe, and I hate to say it. But in a weird way, did the experience give them the trust in the system that then gave them a blind spot? I'm trying to find my feelings here. My, my word. No, I get what you're getting at. Right. Because when you've flown that much and you've done that much, a part of you goes, okay, like I've done this a million times. I know it's going to work. And you know what I mean? Like I, yeah, I trust that things are going to happen. And like in a smaller scale, like when I stream and I go live, I know that I've hundreds and hundreds of hours and times. I've clicked buttons. I just go, that's going to work. That's going to work. This automatically picks up this audio, et cetera. You're not thinking, you know what I mean? Like I'm an experienced streamer. I've been doing it for 15 plus years. Right. I don't do a bunch of checks. I go, that works all the time. I'm just going to go. And if it doesn't, you know what to look at, but. Right. And the number of times you get caught off guard, sometimes going, I'm live. I can't hear you. And it's like, oh, well, my audio should be working. Right. And so I think it's that, you know, that's kind of, and I, I, I. Feel that too. Right. Or just like, you just have the confidence. You go, I've, I've been here. I know what works. I'm focusing on this. I'm going to let the system do its thing. I can't do everything all at once. And it's just with experience comes confidence. Sure. Yeah. And familiarity with the setup. And I think to rob them of any blame, their setup is different. They have a new autopilot tool in place here. And so there are some nuances that maybe they weren't aware of. Like, oh, well on the past. Autopilot, if I bumped the yoke, nothing changed, however, on this one, maybe they bumped the yoke. And so they assume nothing will change, but this new autopilot actually has a new rule. It will disengage, you know, something like that. And, and to further with that thinking of again, robbing them of blame and painting the picture of a, of an unfortunate accident, you know, that chime goes off, but just so you know, it plays out of one of two speakers and that speaker belongs to the flight engineer. Who sits in the back. So yes, they all could have heard it, but it's principally the role of the flight engineer to hear that and guess who was down the trap looking for the landing gear, right? So he wasn't even there to hear it. So again, it's something out of the normal purview of first officer and captain to kind of hear that. And so it's just this conflation of like, ah, that's really unfortunate. It makes so much sense because of the fact of. You're not conditioned to it, right? Someone has their job to doing their thing. And you're, you're, you got to delegate. Sure. Yep. You, you have to have confined and delegated roles. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Cause you can't handle everything all at once. And so at this point, it's just a bad series of events because again, the person that you're delegating that to, you go, okay, they've got it. I trust them. They're experienced. They're doing their thing. They are not there, not even there to like, not to. To mishear it or, or not hear it. They're just not there in general because they're taking care of something else. And so, yeah, things slip through the crack and unfortunately, um, you can't with flying, but I don't, I don't blame them at all. Not that anyone would. No, it was, it was truly, truly an accident and just a domino effect of innocuous, small things, you know, channels A and B for some reason, not being synced up. So first officer can't be aware that the yoke disengaged, uh, flight. Engineers still down below trying to figure something out that is wildly important. And then the chime going off, which is the redundancy. Like again, it's just all these small things that stacked up. And I think that's what makes this so devastating. And we haven't done a lot of these true crime cases on aircraft disasters. We have done quite a few, especially more unsolved ones, but every single time what I find to be truly at the heart of an engineer is yes, it's devastating. It's upsetting. But how? How can we learn from this and implement new standards so this never happens again? And you have that happening year after year after year, hopefully less and less crashes. And so that's where you end up with the modern aircraft, which is continuing to improve. Now, ultimately the official cause of the crash was ruled to be pilot error. Again, I do think there's nuance there. It's not to be like, you're a bad pilot. I think it's just that, yeah, they did physically bump the yoke and it turned things off and, it's kind of a freak situation, but that is the official conclusion. I mean, the overarching, yes, that's what it, that's what it is, but yeah, there's nuance. Yes. And you need to know that because then you can learn from it. So that way future pilots know if you engage the yoke, this will disengage, or we can change the autopilot. So that way it's not so sensitive that it needs to be manipulated and confirmed to be off or, you know, whatever. But specifically the investigation said this quote, the failure of the flight crew to monitor the flight instruments during the final four moments of the flight and to detect an unexpected descent soon enough to prevent impact with the ground preoccupation with a malfunction of the nose landing gear position indicating system distracted the crew's attention from the instruments and allowed the descent to go unnoticed end quote which is true but i don't there's i don't believe they are indicating any malice or like ignorance here oh not at all uh because of course it's it's wildly unfortunate but in response airlines began crew resource management training for pilots this was designed to improve like i was saying the problem solving in the cockpit making it more efficient as you then said by delegating tasks to specific crew members making sure that all roles are defined that there aren't overlapping functions that everyone has their responsibilities and you can all rely on each other and this ensures that there's always one pilot always one person monitoring the flight instruments and making sure that all pilots are monitoring the instruments at all times and so even if there's a technical mishap it cannot be overlooked all right doesn't make it bulletproof we know that there have been crashes since 1972 but that is the case you want to learn right you want to learn you want to learn you want to adapt you want to put in new measurements and it's just like that's the best you can do you want to make the best out of the situation um it's just an unfortunate thing and you don't want to have it again right this is very bad worst thing is if it were to happen again same mistakes right right yeah now because then then the air framers and the airliners then they're negligent right if the exact same thing happens they go we've seen this before how did you not fix that yeah i mean it's again i forget the name of the flight christian if you don't mind helping me out the one that flew out of i think also jfk but out of new york it inspired final destination they're flying along long island and we covered this one at length um and it explodes in the air and they rebuilt they dredged it up rebuilt the whole thing and then they used it for safety courses for many years and they were able to dissect what exactly happened and so that way maintenance schedules could be updated and to look at harnesses and wirings and and why the explosion happened it was a very fascinating case as morbid as it was because yeah you gotta figure out what makes these things happen yeah that was twa flight 800 yes thank you very much christian i appreciate that dude's got a memory on him i just you know it all flows away 35 you know it's basically but time to retire the mind is gone at that point the mind's gone the body is healthy but the mind is gone now as we kind of pivot in the tone i think it is appropriate to move into the ghost stories because this honestly at least for me is the first time i've ever heard of the paranormal in the sky i've i've never heard of ghosts hopping on an international flight but here we have it and specific ghosts at that it's not just like a shadow person down the way floating around with the vomit bags like these are pretty vivid cases but we will kind of poke and prod as we go hank joined bj's wholesale club the day he became a father of 30 i coach football now coach hank saves up to 25 percent off gross restore prices 30 pounds of pasta three cases of protein bars 75 sports drinks and that's just pre-game he knows teamwork and bj's knows savings this is your home coach home of the save join for just 20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only bj's home of the save star wars the mandalorian and grogu is now streaming on disney plus what are you waiting for hop on the must-see galactic adventure comes home on disney plus this is the way our only chance is to work together i like this kid always wear your seatbelt star wars the mandalorian and grogu now streaming on disney plus read pg-13 so of course as we segue this story differs from a traditional crash where we would either dissect the possible answers because it's unsolved or we would either solve or in this case we know what happened because it is solved but because of this there is an unexpected element that follows the paranormal the ghost stories so in the days following the accident as the wreckage was cleared and large pieces were found still intact and somewhat seemingly usable these pieces were then distributed across eastern airlines fleet again christian helped us out by kind of dissecting the blurry lines here as to which pieces may or may not have made it onto other planes and we're going to talk about that in a little bit but before we get into that we're going to take a quick look at what we're going to be looking at in this story and we're going to talk about what we're going to be looking at in a little bit and we're going to talk about what we're going to be looking at in a little bit but before we do that we're going to have a quick look at what we're going to be looking at in this story and then of the same airframe the same type of plane not just other you know oh my 737 is also haunted like specifically these other lockheed planes for instance there was one flight and a captain was asked to check on a passenger traveling in first class who was themselves wearing a pilot's uniform the interesting part about this is that the flight attendant says hey captain i can't handle this person they are dazed they're unresponsive and strangely enough they're not even on the manifest even on the manifest they're not on the passenger list here so i don't even know how they got on they're not on the passenger list here so i don't even know how they got on this plane this plane this plane and so this is one of those rare moments and so this is one of those rare moments and so this is one of those rare moments where yeah you turn to the captain to see if they can where yeah you turn to the captain to see if they can help handle the situation help handle the situation help handle the situation and the captain goes back and he is and the captain goes back and he is and the captain goes back and he is shocked to see the face of loft sitting shocked to see the face of loft sitting shocked to see the face of loft sitting right there in the seat looking right right there in the seat looking right right there in the seat looking right back at him and that's where that story back at him and that's where that story back at him and that's where that story ends we don't know if he faded and ends we don't know if he faded and ends we don't know if he faded and dissipated or if they had a dissipated or if they had a dissipated or if they had a confrontation or if they landed and then confrontation or if they landed and then confrontation or if they landed and then this person kind of this person kind of this person kind of we don't really know how it ends which i we don't really know how it ends which i we don't really know how it ends which i think is unfortunate i would really want think is unfortunate i would really want think is unfortunate i would really want to know what happened there yeah like to know what happened there yeah like to know what happened there yeah like what what's going on what what's going on what what's going on yeah yeah and so i was curious yeah yeah and so i was curious yeah yeah and so i was curious had this pilot worked with loft before had this pilot worked with loft before had this pilot worked with loft before and that's how he recognized him was it and that's how he recognized him was it and that's how he recognized him was it because the crash was in the news and because the crash was in the news and because the crash was in the news and that's how he recognized him that's kind that's how he recognized him that's kind that's how he recognized him that's kind of unclear now on a different flight of unclear now on a different flight of unclear now on a different flight the same one in fact as flight 401 the the same one in fact as flight 401 the the same one in fact as flight 401 the same route i should say heading from new same route i should say heading from new same route i should say heading from new york to miami there was a flight york to miami there was a flight york to miami there was a flight attendant that was opening one of those attendant that was opening one of those attendant that was opening one of those overhead lockers overhead lockers overhead lockers and strangely enough she opens it up and strangely enough she opens it up and strangely enough she opens it up and she sees loft's face looking right and she sees loft's face looking right and she sees loft's face looking right back at her kind of tucked up amongst back at her kind of tucked up amongst the luggage i would imagine or horror movie stuff right what are you doing up there sir but again did she slam it in his face and then he disappeared when she tried to tell somebody else like i want to know where these stories go you're trapped in the air with a ghost where does it go this is just like little sightings yeah especially that one in first class i'd be like anyone else seeing this because i'm a pilot and this is gonna if i tell this story someone's gonna come for my license right now from there the stories get a little bit broader a little less specific but as for the broader more generic sightings both repo and loft have both been seen doing preliminary checks on the ground before takeoff on various aircraft on one account loft was seen conducting pre-flight checks on the aircraft and seemingly told the ground crew that he had already completed them i mean they arrive at the aircraft they're going to go do all the checks and points and looks and things and uh and they're like uh yeah this guy told us uh that that he already did it and then when they describe him that's how they figure out oh that's the deceased officer from the other plane now the pilot was reportedly so unsettled when he heard about that story that he simply cancelled the flight he's like nope if we i mean which i don't know if you cancel it because of the ghost or if you cancel it because your crew is now kind of potentially hallucinating that somebody else did the checks for them and they didn't do the checks in which case i'd go oh yeah that's a weird spiral yeah if you guys did do the checks because a ghost came i'm gonna have somebody i'm gonna cancel this flight get a new one and get somebody else to do the checks on that plane yeah exactly someone else is looking at this yeah so i don't know how you want to interpret that now those are all kind of eerie and they all kind of have a tinge of either neutrality and just kind of ghoulish faces or a little bit of like negative energy because like you have a disruptive passenger or something like that and it's just like it's just a little bit unresponsive and they're just staring at you but there's also several sightings of loft and repo reportedly saving crew from potentially dangerous situations there's one flight attendant who said they saw repo's face as they opened the oven door there's an oven on some of these aircraft and she tells two of the other flight attendants kind of what she saw she's like oh my she's kind of shocked she calls them over she explains what she saw and at that point it repo told her quote watch out for fire on this plane end quote and as it would turn out on this flight one of the engines had failed and had to be turned off before it would catch fire now i don't know if that happened before and she happened to overhear it or if that's something that happened after she quoted this warning to her other flight attendants but it's interesting i would say so but it's the thing is like what's going on it's just the passengers though yeah i mean i don't think we have any passengers seeing this stuff you know it's so isolated and i don't i can't think of a reason why i would be isolated to just the crew i can think of a reason you work for eal this folklore starts to go around yep and you're on an l-1011 and you're thinking did we pick up one of these haunted pieces are haunted pieces being tossed around onto these planes whereas passengers are kind of none the wiser they're just kind of like listen i'll read my newspaper and show up in miami or what have you people love the gossip people love a little bit of gossip let alone like a good little story too as well and also i mean when we fly you and i me christian whatever it's relatively stress-free you kind of hop on and whatever happens happens you just got to get yourself taken somewhere flight attendants and crew all have various levels of responsibility to make sure it flies smooth runs smooth everyone's taken care of they're kind of juggling a lot of things and so it is a little bit of a stressful a stressful environment for them. And there's other things that are stressing them that we don't even know of. And so under that environment with a little bit of that pressure, I can see why folklore or even like, like that stress might even manifest into fear because there's an ounce of the lack of control, right? In some way. I don't know. I'm just trying to think of how or why that would grip, but you know, word gets around town or gets around the company. And I think that's just enough for people to kind of like for believers to kind of go, wait, I saw something too. You know, we've seen that. Yeah, I agree. We saw that way back in the day, Jeremy Dooley doing ghost hunts for a show called Haunter. And the minute he has, he was the most skeptical, but the minute something happened to him, he got scratched. Suddenly all of the crew wants to quit early or leave early. Not quit, but like, but also they're also now getting scratched and they're also seeing something. And so there's something about that, right? There's, there's the confirmation bias and, and all of that psychological effect there. So maybe, maybe that's why, or maybe they're the ones poking and prodding throughout the plane. You're just sat down in a seat. So you're not really seeing anything different. Maybe you saw a ghost, but thought it was a passenger, but they're the ones knowing what's out of place. And so maybe it is a ghost. Yeah. Cause it doesn't seem like they're, I mean, they're in weird positions. And you know, like they're word places, but it doesn't seem like they have ghoulish features or anything like that. So yeah, maybe you are a passengers going, Oh, this is somebody walking by that works here. Yeah. You know, why would they warn a passenger that the, that there might be a fire instead you warned somebody from the crew, right? I don't know. Now there was another flight attendant on that same flight about the oven and everything. And she said she saw an engineer fixing the oven later when she asked another engineer about that. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it could imply that whoever was fixing it was actually a spirit, uh, or, or, you know, but again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Maybe somebody else fixed it. And then you looked at it and then it, I don't know. I don't know, but they're seeing stuff on these planes. There's another flight that repo was seen sitting in the cockpit, warning the crew of a faulty electrical circuit and the crew. Did indeed find a faulty circuit and they replaced it on that plane. Now, is that coincidence? Maybe. Is that a pilot from the past trying to prevent other unfortunate accidents and wrecks happening as a ghost? Also, maybe, I don't know. I mean, it could be, it could be a beneficial thing, but it's just so unique having a haunting on a plane. Yeah. Ghosts on a plane, dude. I never would have thought about it. I mean, surprisingly, it seems very isolated than what you would think it to be. You know, you just got like a lane and you could just look up and you see all the way down. You look back, you see all the way down, but these, these incidents are so isolated. It is weird. And there might be an explanation in why we never hear stories like this again, or maybe it's just not common. Like, are there ghosts on the space station? Like, no, maybe not because no one's died there, but if somebody dies there, do we start to have tales like that? I don't know. True. There's one final story, and that is that one captain at a certain point, a different pilot, was prepping in the cockpit and he hears a knocking noise, a loud banging coming from below him and he looks at the trap door, he opens it up, the very same trap door we talked about before, and in that hole, he sees Repo looking up at him, and then he vanishes, and the pilot, maybe he's got plot armor, maybe he's got a gun, but he doesn't know what he's doing. And the pilot, maybe he's got plot armor, I don't know what's going on, but he's brave, and he goes, "Alright, well I just saw a person disappear before my eyes, I'm going to go down there," and he climbs down the little trap door, and supposedly, I don't know what the problem was, let me see if I have it in my notes here, yeah, we don't know what the problem was, but he found a "serious problem" that could have resulted in an accident. So the idea here is that a majority of this foe- folklore and little eeriness kind of quickly took on the form of guardian angels, which I don't know, I kind of appreciate a more positive angle on these. Yeah, I mean, we rarely get the hauntings that end up being something like that, so. Right, right. It's kind of interesting, I don't know if that plays into the camaraderie, the community of everyone in this company being like, "Well, these are our late colleagues, and so we would hope that there's a positive energy here." Or, if they actually were. ghosts and haunting the parts of their old plane, but ultimately, Eastern Airlines staunchly denied any rumors of hauntings aboard their aircraft, and believers pointed out that, "Hey, you might be denying it, but you are putting in effort to remove all these salvaged parts that were harvested from Flight 401." And soon after this, reports and stories and rumors of hauntings kind of stopped, and so again, is that because they took off the salvaged pieces, or was it just the fact that they weren't able to do anything about it? And so again, is that because they took off the salvaged pieces, or was it just the fact that they weren't able to do anything about it? I think it's ran its course. of Eastern Airlines Flight 401. Yeah, and that will kind of be the theme as we go into the spooky month, because, yeah, I mean, we've got our ghost hunt, our investigations coming around the corner to celebrate Halloween, we've got another special, and that will be a traditional ghost story. We also have a traditional ghost story the week of Halloween, but otherwise, we're kind of looking at folklore. We're looking at the uneary, the uneasy, more hybrid topics, very much like this, where it's like, okay, this is kind of a true crime case. Yes, it's solved. But then suddenly, it's got a paranormal element, or we're looking at something that's folklore or cryptid-based, but then, or even like crime-based or mob-based or historical-based, but then, of course, the through thread will be a little sprinkling of ghost stories, the paranormal, the unsettling, to kind of capture that uneasy feeling that I think we all love about Halloween. Yep, I agree. But with that said, Task Force, just a few shout-outs. We have Delta Kai, who is the newest member of the Task Force. Thank you for joining us from wherever you are coming from in the world. And then our Buff Scientist of the Week, we have Sebastian Palacio. I love that name. It feels very buff, very science, very yes. And then our Squonks of the Week, we have Gavin Day, Neo Trickster, and Dakota, just to name a few. Thank you all so much for your ongoing support. You can support us at other places like store.redwebpod.com, where you can pick up some of our residual Halloween-themed stuff. We have this embroidered Baby Hands shirt that I happen to be wearing. And a couple of other ghoulish pieces of merch over at the store. And then, of course, Patreon. And then if you want to just comment, answer any questions that we have here, talk on our Discord, review us, share us with your friend, share us with a mom. If you know a mom, you got a mom, you share it with them, and they're going to love it too. But with all that said, Fredo, it is the spooky season. I've been celebrating since August 1st, but finally I can celebrate publicly next week. I'll see you right back here. I'll see you right back here for another mystery and the beginning of October. Home of the save. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. BJ's. Home of the Save.