E85 — Nikin Shah — Legacy & Leverage: How to Scale, Sell, and Start Again

Nikin Shah's Journey: Entrepreneurial Roots & Early Lessons Dear listeners far and wide, welcome to the Fuqua Show, where ideas inspire action and purpose comes alive one story at a time. I'm your host, Aaliyah Brown, and today we're joined by Nikki Shaw. Hey. Speaker 2 How are you? Speaker 1 Welcome to the Fuqua Show. As we do all of our esteemed guests, I'm going to start with a little bit about your bio. Nikin Shaw is the founder and general partner at Front Porch Venture Partners based right here in Durham. Front Porch is reshaping the venture landscape across the Southeast through a sophisticated hybrid strategy, investing both as a limited partner into top tier venture funds and directly into high growth startup. But Nikin's expertise just isn't theoretical. It's deeply operational. Prior to launching Front Porch, he served as Co CEO of Paula Zen, a family LED medical device powerhouse founded by his father in 1991. Nikin didn't just do her the family legacy, he scaled the platform and successfully led the full company exit in November 2022. His strategic toolkit was forged at global leaders like Medtronic, where he supported high stakes investments and acquisitions and at Deloitte Consulting. He's a true product of the Research Triangle. Nikin holds ABS from UNC Chapel Hill and an MBA from the Fuqua School of Business. When he isn't backing the next generation of builders, you can find him in Cary with his three children, Elena, Nella and Zaden. Welcome, Nikin. Thanks. So before we go on, I think our listeners have one central question for you. Who are you rooting for in the rivalry? Speaker 2 Caroline all the way. Speaker 1 Oh no, that was not the answers we were going for here, but we're going to just we're going to act like that one didn't happen it. Speaker 2 Was a great game two weeks ago. Speaker 1 Oh no, Oh no. It's too fresh. It's far too fresh. And I think that your journey always starts at the top. Every great founder story begins somewhere, and yours began very early through your father's legacy when he founded Paula Sun. I love the Japanese concept of ikigai, and it translates to your reason for being. It's the intersection of what you love, what you're good at, and what the world needs and what you can be rewarded for. So as you're developing in your early years, watching your father build something from nothing, how did that front row seat shape your early understanding of risk and how did it change the way you approached business? Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a great question. I was equated like my father certainly has a high risk tolerance, right? Being an immigrant from India came in 1968, and you know, the typical immigrant story with $5 in your pocket or $10 in your pocket. And then when he decided to start Polyzen as a consultant, right, it was he always had two things like 1 was like, OK, I have my mind and I have hard work. And then the rest is we'll just have belief in yourself to go off. And all entrepreneurs are crazy in their own right. And so, you know, he believed in himself, started a business, and he'd worked at a large corporate job, a company called Upjohn back in the 70s and 80s. And when he first started, he told my mom he's like, I've always had a desire to start a business and if not, I'll go get a normal job. And that's kind of where as a child seeing that risk, right? Early on, we lived in a town home. He came down, gave my brother and IA kiss, put on his shirt and tie and then said hey. And he just went upstairs and closed the door. And he worked and worked and worked. And then when he came home, he took his tie off and he greeted us and played with us as kids. And so I think just that notion of hard work, believing in yourself and just the ability to take risks is are things that I got for my dad. Speaker 1 I appreciate that example, and research from the Harvard Business Review show that children of entrepreneurs are 60% more likely to build companies themselves. But I suspect that was not just a statistic for you. It was a living, breathing element of your upbringing. Were your siblings also entrepreneurial if you had one? Speaker 2 Yeah. So my brother, so we both worked in the family business and as we've now sold the business, I always had a passion for early to working with early stage entrepreneurs, helping them take their ideas, bring it to fruition. My brother is also he kind of bought into another medical device company and helping that founder and that business kind of scale. And so I think once you're an entrepreneur, it's more of a mindset, right? It's more of the thinking outside the box, taking risks. And as I mentioned earlier, like believe in yourself and just saying, OK, we're going to try to go solve this problem or go build this opportunity. And you kind of take it to say we're going to swing for the fences regardless whether it's going to work. Speaker 1 I love that. What was one of the core memories from your childhood that reinforced your drive in that mindset towards entrepreneurship? I'm sure there's so many. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, that's a tough question, right? I would say just that seeing when you're able to see your parents, I think you mentioned the statistic from Harvard. I think when you when you're able to see your parents do something, it just kind of reinforces to say you can do it too, right. And and I think that belief. So I don't think there's a core memory per SE, but like my dad and mom never forced us into one career path and they just, I think they provided that early belief to say you can do anything. And it's kind of what I'm looking to reinforce with my kids. Speaker 1 I love that. And growing up in a Caribbean household, we did not have that agility. It was doctor, lawyer, engineer. So really appreciate that you're able to have that full depth and breadth of the different careers that you were able to explore. From Deloitte to Fuqua: Navigating Career Pivots & Family Business And you took those early observations and you headed into the world of higher education, which eventually LED you back to Durham and to Duke. What was that experience like when you applied for Duke and you found that that was the right moment to take the pivot? Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say so early on, had a, a family friend of of my father's, he's actually a Duke alum, but he worked in private equity. And when I was 15, went to his house, didn't realize like he had a basketball court in his house. And I was like, OK, well, that's what I wanted. That's all for the vanity reasons. And I was like, oh, and then I was like, what do you do? Private equity? It's OK. What's private equity? It's like, oh, we buy companies. Fast forward, it was, I went to undergrad and focused in business to eventually get into venture capital, private equity, didn't know the difference at the time. So I went to, I worked at Deloitte as you mentioned. And the typical path was you spend two to three years in management consulting and then you go to Business School. So this was 2008, I applied a bunch of schools didn't get in. And then that was where my father said, hey, you've been helping other people, would you like to come help me at the family business, always knowing I wanted to go back to Business School and part of our family business, we did contract manufacturing for medical devices, got really passionate about healthcare. And So what attracted me to Fuqua was this intersection between healthcare and entrepreneurship. And with the HSM program also, it was in, back in 2010 when I went to, when I came here to Fuqua, entrepreneurship was just getting in vogue in a lot of schools. And so that was a great kind of combination. Speaker 1 I love that, and I would love to backtrack to a key point that you mentioned, 2008. You're at Deloitte, you're looking to make a change. Can you set the stage for our listeners on what that year felt like for you? Speaker 2 Yeah. So this was right in the financial crisis, it was tough. You're in this high energy environment in management consulting where in your class? So I was in, I was working in Atlanta and there was probably 10 to 15 of us. We're all still, we do keep in touch. We have a text chain and actually we just got, I just got one this past week saying, hey, it's been 21 years since we started working together. Let's all try to get, let's try to do a reunion. Because the typical path in management consulting was to go to Business School. That was what I was looking at. And initially it was pretty jarring when I didn't get in, right. It was kind of that when at the time it was like, OK, I failed and that was kind of hard. And then my path was like, OK, there's a lot of pre MBA programs to get into venture capital, private equity. And so I was like, OK, maybe that's my path. But this is where the financial crisis kind of cross sectioned because there was many individuals who were in venture capital already or in private equity or investment banking that those individuals got the roles versus me. And so it was like, OK, now what do I do? And I'm always, I'd be forever grateful for my father. Like he's always been that safety net because we had this family business at the time, it was like, oh, join the family business, but I didn't realize this was an opportunity to actually get true operational experience, which I think is critical that I, I wouldn't turn back or change today. Speaker 1 I love that. And before you even return to the family business, you went out. You built a toolkit at some of the most respected organizations in the world, and you weren't just participating, you were training at the highest levels. So how did your earlier experiences at Deloitte and Medtronic prepare you for stepping into that leadership role within your family business? Applying Corporate Learnings to Lead the Family Business Yeah, the first time it was, was just Deloitte and worked on 9 different projects over the course of three years. The what larger companies teach is frameworks, it's discipline. It's, it's how do you work and what does excellence look like at at some of the highest levels when you're a management consultant? It's again, it's a romanticized job like many others, where you get to work with executives at Fortune 500 companies solving key problems. And so again, it's how do you communicate? It's how to structure thought. It's how to take data and make it meaningful to create these insights where these companies are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars on these projects. And so now today, a lot of it is just how do you think in frameworks? And so when you go to a family business, it was OK, I'm not, I don't have the liberty of highly motivated people that graduated from top universities. It's I have the team and how do I make the most of that? I. Speaker 1 Love that. I appreciate that the timeline goes Deloitte, then Polly Sen, and then Medtronic. Speaker 2 Then Business School. Speaker 1 Yeah. And then Business School. Speaker 2 It was Business School, then Medtronic and then back to the family business. Speaker 1 Wow. OK. So there's been a bit of bouncing around between the family, business, corporate, you know, exposure. How did you know At what points were you wanted to pivot between your own legacy and be an extension of a corporation's legacy? Speaker 2 Yeah, that's an interesting question. So again, I think some of it was maybe forced in necessity, right. So it went to the from Deloitte, wanted to go to Business School as I mentioned, didn't get in. So it was an opportunity to join the family business. That was kind of my first way to own AP and L manage staff and run a business and be responsible for that. Wanted to go back to Business School and that was kind of my say, I wanted to move into venture capital, right? So that was kind of a path. I'd interned at a local venture capital firm and I talked to some mentors and they said, imagine sitting across the table from ACEO telling him or her, this is what you need to do and you've never done it before. The second kind of guidance is you're, if you're interested in healthcare venture capital, you're not a doctor and engineer, you should go to a larger company to get some more exposure and credibility. And so that was kind of my foray to Medtronic. And again, the details of when I was there, it was like, oh, should I join a startup? Should I join a venture capital firm or do I do go to Medtronic? But you know, again, working at one of the largest medical device companies in the world gave me and I'm a big believer of anchor theory. It opened the door and gave me credibility to other healthcare entrepreneurs or healthcare CE OS that I would talk to. It's like, oh, I worked at Medtronic. They're like, oh, it helped me understand most of the companies we now invest in at Front Porch, the typical exit path is an acquisition. And having had that exposure at Medtronic acquiring different companies, I was able to understand what do what does a large company look for in order to acquire a company. So again, I think hindsight's always 2020. I wouldn't change any of my past, but what large companies gave me was like that credibility. And then I always say, like, I love your icky guide principle. I always share with a lot of folks, you have your grand career plans and then life happens. So at the time, my wife and I had our first daughter running dual careers. It was OK, well, I'm traveling internationally. My wife was working at the time at A at a law firm remotely. And we had our first daughter. We knew no one in Minneapolis, and so we said, OK, let's come back home to North Carolina where we can be closer to family and have that support. Speaker 1 Yeah, I love that beautiful evolution of your life and kind of going with the ebbs and flows. And I don't think anything happens by coincidence. Now that you have that credibility and you were able to grow within Medtronic, you said, I will now pay that forward within my own company, within my own legacy. We're moving back to be within the nucleus of our family. So what was that transition from Minneapolis back home? What was that like for you? Speaker 2 Yeah, it was tough, right? I went to my dad. I said, look, I'm happy to support strategically with my father and my brother at the business. So coming back home, it was OK, maybe I will do this part time and I'll do a couple other things. And again, remember starkly that my brother was saying, hey, my dad was 70 at the time and he was like, look, we really need some help in finance and operations. I think you have the right skill sets. Can you come join after some tug of warrants and discussions internally with my brother? And my dad eventually said, you know what, I'm excited to take this on. And when I was at Fuca, got exposed to things like search funds and buying a business, right? So entrepreneurship through acquisition, it's like another common path to starting your own venture. And that was actually the early Nexus of Front Porch where my partners and I were looking at potentially let's go buy a business. And I was always blindsided by the fact of my own ego where I said, I have a business, my father's 70, he's been running it for 20 years. And we have the opportunity to actually lead it as ACEO. And so that was the I just have to put my ego aside and say, hey, this is an opportunity to create my own legacy here. Navigating Interpersonal Dynamics in a Family Business I love that. And there's a striking data point from PWC's Global Family Business Survey. It found that 70% of family business conflicts have nothing to do with the strategy or the market. Instead, they stem from complex friction between the interpersonal and and governance dynamics. So what was it really like in those early days where your vision may not have perfectly aligned with your father's vision of the company's future? Speaker 2 Yeah, we have the highest of highs and the lowest lows. I think it's everything you just mentioned, right? It's the interpersonal dynamics. I'm a big Simon Sinek fan and he talks about the what, the how, the why. My brother and I, my father all had the same why. We knew the potential of the business and and we all had a desire to build and grow the business. It was more the how and it was understanding. And at the time we didn't have the right tools kits. I do now mentor a lot of family businesses. I'm very passionate about that topic and I think it's just it's all comes down to communication. It's understanding what your needs are, what my needs are, what my wants are, and building that shared vision for why are we in business together and what can we do together rather than trying to prove your own path. Speaker 1 I love that essence of collaboration and finding synergies between your father's history, legacy, expectations and the ways that you want to grow and adapt the company and in your role as a mentor. What are some of the largest misconceptions about family businesses from people on the outside? They often look at it as a golden ticket or sometimes an impossible situation. So which one is closer to the truth? Speaker 2 I think it's all the above, right? And one of the guidance I always give is, and it's carry the legacy that the initial entrepreneur had. My first foray into the family business, I worked ground level, I worked on the manufacturing floor. I treated everyone just like my father did. He knew every person's name. At our peak, we had 120 people we knew. And I made it a point to introduce myself and get to know every single person and their families and to humanize this experience and to say, I'm not here because I'm the CEO or I'm the founder son. I'm here because I have the credibility. And I think over time, folks recognized my skill sets and my leadership abilities. And then eventually as I took over as Ceoi was able to gain and build that respect. And I think there are times where there's a golden ticket, right? At the same time, I had a lot of folks say I would never go in business with my brother, my sister, my father, my mother, my aunt, my uncle, etcetera. And so again, a lot of these things we romanticize in terms of this is the perfect situation. I don't think there's a perfect job or situation. You just have to take the most of it and work hard. And and then eventually the more self-awareness you can build. And I think this is where Fuqua helps and all the different experiences help, which is just as you build more self-awareness, you realize we're all just human. Speaker 1 And I appreciate that point. Orchestrating a Successful Exit for the Family Business And you just gave us also the perfect segue. You mentioned at your company's prime, you had 150 employees that you knew personally. And for a lot of entrepreneurs, they can only dream of the sale of their company. But here you are strategically and emotionally invested in Polisen. What was that process like when you had to approach the sale of your company? And how did you discern who would be the best successors of the company? Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a common saying. Companies are not sold or bought. And as much diligence and as much screening, like AI think it is your responsibility if you're selling to do your own diligence, to figure out the right. But at the end of the day, you got to ask yourself, why are you selling? And at the time, my brother and I and the board felt like we'd taken the company to the best possible place from a growth perspective. We just came out of COVID. It was a really tough time to run any business. We were continuously getting calls from private equity, right? So private equities come into many industries and they were knocking on the doors. And I think when that started to occur, it starts to transform the different stakeholders and players in business. And so within the contract manufacturing business, that was starting to occur. And we saw the writing on the wall and then we just needed more capital to grow. In addition, this is something I kind of share in different forms as well, like my brother and I running a family business. Like it was tough and there was a little bit of conflict that we had that didn't make it fun anymore. So it was a combination of we'd grown post COVID, private equity came in and then we also had some conflict that kind of said, hey, you know what, it's probably best to family first. We value family. And it's taken some time, but my brother and I have a really good relationship back again. Speaker 1 That's such a beautiful transition because I think our listeners are curious in the domain of how did you feel when you were signing those papers for a business that carries both your professional sweat and personal history? How did you make room for both the celebration of the win, but also the grief of letting go? Speaker 2 So that night I had a few friends who said hey, let's go celebrate and grab a drink. And I was like, OK, I'm going to go to bed. But again, it is some businesses last for generations, right? A founder builds and grows a business. And at some point there is a transition, whether it's to the next generation or whether it's to some successor. And then some businesses build and then they exit and they sell. For us, again, there was a sigh of relief, right? And part of the story is we went up, we went out to market to go sell the company in 2021. And it was a failed offer and a failed transaction. And then when we sold in 22, it was a successful transaction. So that we had been in market for for almost 18 months and it was a great outcome for the family, etcetera. Part of that also was my brother and I build alignment in terms of what does a successful sale out right. And so there's a book in Aceo peer group of mine and I'm a big believer peer groups who there's a guy Patrick Ungersheick and wrote how do you dance in the end zone using football's analogy and not have the one yard line regrets. And so we looked at what would a successful outcome look like. It was both for ourselves as owners and shareholders, for the management team, for our families and for our employees and customers. Building Support Systems: Peer Networks and Work-Life Balance Thank you. And for me in Business School, they amplify this idea of network. And I love your point that you made about the peer group. What was that process of establishing your peer group, finding people with the right alignment? And I know you mentioned earlier as well the anchor theory. So how are these people anchoring you through different phases of your life and growth? Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I mean, so you know, one of the my guiding principles is your network is again cliche, but your network is your net worth, right? And it's like who you surround yourselves with. The other is I didn't know what it was like to be ACEO. And so I joined a professional CEO peer group called Vistage, which is a global organization. There's several EOIPO and when you're able to be surrounded by 15 or 16 other CE OS who are going through very similar things, whether it's personal, professional health, leading teams, hiring people, firing people, setting strategy, right, like it just helps you get smarter. And so that the anchoring was continuing to build more self-awareness and then thinking outside the box and the peer group was almost my personal board of directors, right? And I can go, I was able to build a lot of trust and confidentiality and be vulnerable. And at times where things were really tough, whether conversations I had with my dad or my brother or how do I handle a big customer, you can ask those questions and not be ashamed or embarrassed to ask the simple questions, knowing that there's someone else in the room that's probably gone through that same thing. Speaker 1 That's beautiful. And to tie it all back, we're talking about like Ken the professional, but there's also like Ken the husband and the dad. You move back to be closer to family, to have that support system. So what was that dynamic like in the midst of this major transition? Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I mean, it's, I think we wear all these different hats, right? And it was important you either run away from what you experienced or you learn more into it. And so for me, my parents, they both are celebrating 80 years of age. They both had 50 years of marriage, but mom raised us, Dad was always working. And so it was important for me to be a more present dad for my 3 kids, Elena and Ella's Aiden. And so that was important. It was important to help my wife, allow her to lead her career. There's always sacrifices that are made on both sides. But again, I think it's just how do you live a more balance life? And the term that has really resonated more recently is this term work life rhythm. It's trying to figure out what season of life you're in and then find that rhythm that kind of allows you to live the best life, whatever you can do. Speaker 1 Wow, work life rhythm, that's a new term for me. I know we have the pendulum swing of work life continuum, but I like rhythm because that nod to the ebb and flow of where your time will be spent and being that father and being that leader in the household, but also the boardroom. What are you most proud of? Speaker 2 That's a tough question. There's a lot of things I'm just proud of and grateful for. I think one, it's continuing to build perspective by learning from others. And I think that if I were to equate going back to your original question, what's something that you learn from your parents? It's that continuous learning mindset. And I think I'm most proud of being able to have that like really enhance and cherish and lean into that continuous learning mindset, whether it's how do I be a better person? How do I be in better health? How do we be a better husband, father, leader, CEO, and now investor? And what does that mean to? And it's more of this journey rather than a destination. And that's where I'm leaning in kind of this next phase of my life. Speaker 1 Thank you. The Transition: Post-Sale Impact and Founding Front Porch And I'm sure our listeners are curious. You mentioned various employees. How are they doing after the close of the deal? Speaker 2 I do keep in touch with a handful of them. Again, as I mentioned, companies are bought, not sold. And when you sell your company, you don't make the decisions anymore, You don't control. And I think the company's still doing relatively well. But many employees have transitioned out to other opportunities because many of our employees who've been there for many years got used to our leadership style and how we ran the company. And when that gets taken away, they were seeking something different. Speaker 1 I appreciate that nuance. And with any change, as you've seen throughout your career, you have to make that strategic decision of what's next. And you had a very different decision. Most people after an exit like yours, it would have taken a long breath, but you did the opposite. You leaned in further, you stepped forward completely. I wouldn't call it a new arena because I felt like there was a gravitational pull for you acquiring new companies. So how did you know that now was the time for you to finally make that next step? Speaker 2 As I mentioned earlier, like always wanted to be in venture capital. It was just an industry that I overtime learn to really just be passionate about. What's not clear is when I was running Polyzen 2018-2019, I went to my two business partners who I met at Fuqua, Joe Mancini and Greg Bortes. And I said, look, I think we have an opportunity to build something. And not realizing they also had this inclination and this desire to build something. So collectively we just all started to talking about there's an opportunity to build something great here in the Triangle to support entrepreneurs and really bring more capital to for the next generation of start-ups across the Southeast. And so that's when we started the firm in 2020. At the same time, each of us had our own respective careers. So I was still at Polly's N. And so I knew when I sold, when we sold Polly's N, Greg had already joined the firm full time and I was the second one. And then Joe joined full time and shortly thereafter. And so it was just a passion. And it's honestly been a really fun dream to build the firm and we're based in Durham now and super exciting. Speaker 1 I'm super grateful that we've planted the flag of Front porch ventures here in Durham, and it's also strategically located in a hub of Fuqua. So how was that network an enabler for you and your business? Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean we are forever, right? I think as I mentioned, Fuqua's provided me my 2 business partners and so each of us built our bond. I met Joe before starting school, He met Greg, Blue Devil Weekend. We did a couple mentored studies together with Professor David Robinson and and a handful of others. And and then beyond that, I think just again, Duke carries a great name. And so interacting with professors and other entrepreneurs coming out of Duke, we've had several of our classmates be investors in Front Porch where as we raise dedicated capital from investors, many of them said, hey, we know you, we trust you and we want to support your, what you guys are building. And so we've had investors as well. Unlocking Southeast Potential: Front Porch's Hybrid Investment Model That's amazing. I also love that there's other unique elements of Front Porch Ventures that I'd like to highlight. Utilize a unique strategy, investing and LP's and other funds while also making direct startup investments. Why was that fun to fund? Hybrid model. The right key to unlock, especially in the Southeast. Speaker 2 Yeah, no, great question. So venture being a very high risk asset class, you have your traditional public equities and then you have your alternative assets, whether it be private equity, real estate and private credit and venture. The risk between your downside risk in in investing in startups is 0, right? You lose your money and many venture firms typically have the 8020 rule where two companies or three companies will return the entire fund. And so it's a concentrated investment. And what we realized was not as many people in the Southeast, we're investing in the asset class because either A, they didn't know or they Angel invest in one or two companies. And if that went really well, they thought they were the greatest investors. If it busted, they're like, OK, this asset class is not for me. And so we built the strategy very similar to how large endowments and institutions invest in the asset class where they cast a wide net investing in 4 to 500 companies rather than 10 or 12 companies. And so again, we started with our own capital. We built this platform for ourselves as well as other investors. Speaker 1 That's amazing. And there's also a SE surge, as I'd like to call it. Cities like Durham, Atlanta and Miami since 23rd, since 2023 has earned roughly like 10 billion in investments. I found that to be very interesting. But in a recent NVCA report, that accounts for only 2% of the total US steel flow. So there's a massive opportunity gap. So how is your company uniquely positioned to close that gap? Speaker 2 Yeah. We strive to be able to see the best companies across the region through this hybrid strategy. We're investing in, in a given portfolio, we'll invest in about 15 venture funds all based here in, in the region from DC to Miami as W as Texas or not including Texas, where they're scouting and getting to know all the best founders and best companies and they're participating. So we have access. And then we harness those relationships to be able to go direct into the ones that we believe are uniquely positioned to, to generate. And so it's this arbitrage that you mentioned in terms of the amount of people and talent and opportunity here, but the lack of capital where we're able to generate so-called alpha. The Operator's Advantage: VC Insights and AI's Future Yeah. And in terms of the positioning, you have an operator's eye, haven't worked in your family business for several years. How does this operational DNA change the way you look at founders across the table? Because you've sat in the seat, you know what good business practice. You've sat in the seat, you know what good business practice looks like. Speaker 2 Yeah. So one of the things when we invest in other funds, we invest across looking at firms who have this blend of investor plus operator, right, the investor dot the IS cross the T's. They understand deal making, they understand negotiation. Operators have the empathy of the CEO having been there between Greg, my, my two partners, Greg, Joe and I, We are a blend of investors and operators where we can build the empathy, understand the problem that the founder is looking to solve and how they're looking to scale the company. But at the same time have that investment rigor to understand entry level valuations and milestones that need to achieve to again generate investor level returns. Speaker 1 Thank you. And within the midst of opportunities, there's also disruptions. And the biggest disruptor, with AI doubling in the span of just even a year, how is that impacting the way that you think about business and the way that you strategically target investments? Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, we, we are investing in AI and or all of our companies are utilizing AI internally, right? We think about it, is it the product or is it the process in today's age? 2 years ago, it was what is this AI thing and are you using it now? It's pretty much ubiquitously across the board. Everyone's using some form of AI just for internal operational efficiencies. Companies that had a technical backlog, especially on the software development side, no longer have that backlog. So they're able to think about next opportunities or modes that they can build. But again, it is a major disruptor, right? It's just like whether it's electricity, cloud, web, industrial revolution, this is a major step, function change of how we're all going to work over the next many decades to come. Navigating Venture Capital: Advice for Future Leaders Thank you. And your seat is very aspirational for a lot of students who are looking to break into the space of PEVC. What are some strategies you would pass down to students who are looking to gain opportunities in the field? Speaker 2 Yeah, I would say there's no set path. But again, while one could be both investor or operator, pick one that you believe really resonates with you and what you feel like you're attracted to, right. If it's the investment side, maybe it's investment banking, maybe it's different asset classes investing, whether it's private equity or venture capital or what not. If it's on the operational side, go work for a start up or go start your own company or go work at a company where you have an opportunity to really influenced shift and changing growth in that company. So that's, I would say 1-2 is there's several opportunities while at Fuqua to intern, do a mentored study, do an internship and go work either again at a venture capital firm or a start up. And then the last one is this is a long term career. I see a lot of folks who say I want to get into venture capital immediately after Business School. It's a long term asset class. We make an investment today. We're looking to hold that investment for five to 10 years. So we don't know whether we made a good choice. We're asking always 4 questions. Can this founder build us into a business? Can this business scale? Can we actually get a return? And can this be a portfolio returner? We may not know those answers for long periods of time. And so it's a, it's one of those careers that it's good to understand early on, but it's almost more of a later stage type of career unless you're willing to have the patience to get in now and then see those results 5 to 10 years from now. Speaker 1 Thank you. And it is a game of patience being able to wait for the right opportunity. In your case, no one has the right time to pivot. And how did you develop that sixth sense almost on what is the right opportunity and also more importantly, when is the right time? Speaker 2 From an investment standpoint, yeah, I think you built some level of pattern recognition early on this. We're investing in people. This is part of the, as you, in my opinion, part of the reason of the risk is you're in you're backing people rather than just businesses. And the earlier stage you go, it's like they may not have the idea. The idea is going to pivot time and time again at the number one is how passionate is that entrepreneur and do they have the perseverance, the credibility to solve this problem and really trying to ask questions on what their motivation is, right? If they're really motivated, I think to solve a problem, that's going to be an opportunity to take a chance. A Journey of Gratitude: Redefining Success and Purpose I think your last point dovetails very well into the close of our podcast today. They say the first half of your life is about attaining and the second-half is about becoming. I want us to close on a point of reflection. After a decade of high stakes building, how has your internal definition of success shifted? Speaker 2 I actually had this conversation with a friend earlier today. When you think about, I think it's about being around people, right? Building a network, being around people you love, you care about. I think it's one I think and continuing to build that tribe is what I call 2. I think it's just being super appreciative and grateful for what you have. And I think just coming from a place of gratitude and contentness, not to say you can't achieve more, but rather than it's versus approaching it from a deficit. And I think a lot of my younger self approached life from a deficit standpoint. And I think it's now taking states to say I've accomplished a lot and I'm super grateful for that. What do I want for myself? What do I want for my kids? What do I want for my family and friends? And really taking time to enjoy life. Speaker 1 Do you think you found your key guy? Speaker 2 I definitely found my IQ guy. Speaker 1 Well, thank you. And legacy isn't built in a single moment. As Niken has showed us, it is built in layers. From watching his father pour the foundation of Paula Zen in 1991 to scaling and successfully exiting the company in 2022, the Kinshaw has shown us what it looks like to honor the past while building the future. Now he's backing the next generation of builders. Our discussion today also reminds me of a powerful insight from a Vault CEO, the Tavio Samuels. At our recent live conference, he stated that your greatest gifts point to the problem you're uniquely designed to solve. Niken's journey has challenged us all to align our unique genius with what the real world counts as impact. And then he's gone the additional step of mastering that and assigning value to that IP. He has found his icky guy. And today his purpose looks like a front porch in Durham with a clearview of Southeast potential. If today's conversations there's something in you, don't let it sit idle. Share this episode with one person who is currently building their own layer of purpose. Subscribe to the Fuqua Show so you never miss a master class like this one in leadership and legacy. Until next time, thank you. Speaker 2 Thanks.